mulattomaxxer
NEED £40,000 TO ASCEND.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2020
- Posts
- 4,561
- Reputation
- 8,443
Introduction
This is my first jaw surgery cosultation with a UK maxillofacial surgeon. I had a consultation with Dr Mark Boyle who is part of the team at the aintree hospital group. https://www.aintreehospital.nhs.uk/our-services/. I asked some questions to gather more information on jaw surgery. There is a section on UK vs European surgeons which is worth a read for people in the UK.
The consultant
Dr Mark Boyle. Not much information on him but he is very experienced (20+ years). If you PM him I can send you his email address but I would first have to ask for his permission. Below is the team he works with.
Some of his results. I asked him for pictures but unfortunately he has to respect patient confidentality. Overall I am impressed with his results however the average PSL autist won't be. "Muh why didn't he go from 3PSL low tier normie to 7PSL male model 
" . Some people have very unrealistic expectations on what surgery can achieve.
www.manchesterorthodontics.co.uk
Personal information and Malocclusions
My face for reference.
My malocclusions are:
>Class 2 division 1 malocclusion
>anterior open bite.
>Crowding
>Crossbite
Diagrams for reference:
Consultation
Dr Boyle outlined that he would give me a
>3mm Lefort 1 with CW rotation for my maxilla.
>7-8mm BSSO for my mandible.
>No genioplasty.
He also specifed that he would not need any CT scans, because my case is relatively simple (I look reasonably normal afterall. He has seen my face and X-rays.
Payment method
He said that DJS would cost me £12,000 which I wouldn't pay until a week before the surgery He would refer to to a medical loan company who would pay the hospital in full on the surgery day. After this I would pay off the £12,000 in monthly installments with no interest for one year. After a year the loans interest would increase by about 10%. Considering that he said it would take 12-18 months after getting braces to get DJS I would have alot of time to save up. I plan on living at home so I will have over 1 year to save in addition to 1 year to pay off the loan. In conclusion its expensive but its within the realm of reason.
UK vs European Jaw Surgeons (IMPORTANT FOR CHOOSING A SURGEON)
Dr Mark Boyle was very sincere and genuinue. He didn't appear to be trying to dupe me. He was helpful but impartial to wether I got surgery with him or not. He told me that EU and UK surgeons can easily talk shit about eachother. One thing he mentioned is that EU surgeons are more likely to add costs onto the consultation. He included 3D planning as one of these additional costs. Dr Boyle did say that 3D planning would reduce operation time. My operation time will be about 3 hours. With 3D planning it will be one hour. He says that he will only use 3D planning in complex cases. Dr Boyle did say I could opt for 3D planning if I wanted to however he deemed it to be an uneccesary cost of up to £1500. Dr Boyle also outlined that 3D planning can give unrealistic expectations for post OP results.
I would have my plates and screws left in permanently. According to Dr Boyle only a few cases need the screws and plates removed. Some surgeons in the EU will always remove the plates because they may get infected. However this could just be done to increase the cost of the surgery. However Dr Boyle wasn't biased, he said that alot of the points he mentioned could be used agaisnt him. For example the EU surgeons could say maybe the UK surgeons are using outdated surgery methods by skipping 3D planning.
What Dr Mark Boyle said is whichever surgeon I choose, choose one which does alot of jaw surgery. He does about 50-60 cases a year. Don't choose a surgeon who doesn't do alot of orthoganic surgery.
My conclusion is that the idea that all UK maxilliofacial surgeons are retards is an urban rumour originating from jawsurgeryforums. It's simply not true.
Other useful resources
https://www.bos.org.uk/ and more specifically your jaw surgery. It contains alot of useful information regarding jaw surgery. Another important thing Dr Boyle said is that he doesn't like websites such as jawsurgeryforums (and probably looksmax JFL, but I never mentioned this to him) because they can be an echo chamber of misinformation.
Conclusion and future plans.
Overall I am impressed with Dr Mark Boyle, he is a friendly person who doesn't have a bias. He has over 20 years of experience and has had good results. He is focused on giving you the correct treatment at the lowest price possible. He is not focused on lining up his pockets.
In my opinion the main difference between surgeons as Dr Mark Boyle and other EU surgeons which are praised he is that doesn't offer the additional cosmetic proceedures the famous EU surgeons do. You could view this as him being less aesthetics focused but imo this simply means he doesn't offer the sought after cosmetic proceedures. They all learn the same cuts and techinques, its just down to practical application and previous experience. I am confident he will be perform the same movements as the more renown surgeons.
Get a second opinion from a different jaw surgeon. I was expecting him to say 3 piece lefort 1 and genioplastly but I have no knowledge here. I have recently called up Dr Paul Johnson however I am beginning to see a growing logistical issue because I don't live in London. Having your ortho and maxfac surgeon hours apart seems to be impractical (especially if you live outside London). I will also look into Dr Zarrinbal and Dr Ramieri. Dr Z offers alot of niche surgeries. Ramieri seems appealing because he offers implants (also @Gaia262 ascended with him). I don't think I will see a huge cosmetic improvement to my front profile with jaw surgery alone but I need to think about what subsequent surgeries I want.
I either want infraorbital-malar implants and/or a blepharoplasty + malar implants.
This is my first jaw surgery cosultation with a UK maxillofacial surgeon. I had a consultation with Dr Mark Boyle who is part of the team at the aintree hospital group. https://www.aintreehospital.nhs.uk/our-services/. I asked some questions to gather more information on jaw surgery. There is a section on UK vs European surgeons which is worth a read for people in the UK.
The consultant
Dr Mark Boyle. Not much information on him but he is very experienced (20+ years). If you PM him I can send you his email address but I would first have to ask for his permission. Below is the team he works with.
" . Some people have very unrealistic expectations on what surgery can achieve.
Orthognathic surgery
At Northenden House Manchester, our consultants are experienced in orthognathic jaw surgery to improve oral function, appearance and quality of life.
www.manchesterorthodontics.co.uk
Personal information and Malocclusions
My face for reference.
My malocclusions are:
>Class 2 division 1 malocclusion
>anterior open bite.
>Crowding
>Crossbite
Diagrams for reference:
|
|
Consultation
Dr Boyle outlined that he would give me a
>3mm Lefort 1 with CW rotation for my maxilla.
>7-8mm BSSO for my mandible.
>No genioplasty.
He also specifed that he would not need any CT scans, because my case is relatively simple (I look reasonably normal afterall. He has seen my face and X-rays.
Payment method
He said that DJS would cost me £12,000 which I wouldn't pay until a week before the surgery He would refer to to a medical loan company who would pay the hospital in full on the surgery day. After this I would pay off the £12,000 in monthly installments with no interest for one year. After a year the loans interest would increase by about 10%. Considering that he said it would take 12-18 months after getting braces to get DJS I would have alot of time to save up. I plan on living at home so I will have over 1 year to save in addition to 1 year to pay off the loan. In conclusion its expensive but its within the realm of reason.
UK vs European Jaw Surgeons (IMPORTANT FOR CHOOSING A SURGEON)
Dr Mark Boyle was very sincere and genuinue. He didn't appear to be trying to dupe me. He was helpful but impartial to wether I got surgery with him or not. He told me that EU and UK surgeons can easily talk shit about eachother. One thing he mentioned is that EU surgeons are more likely to add costs onto the consultation. He included 3D planning as one of these additional costs. Dr Boyle did say that 3D planning would reduce operation time. My operation time will be about 3 hours. With 3D planning it will be one hour. He says that he will only use 3D planning in complex cases. Dr Boyle did say I could opt for 3D planning if I wanted to however he deemed it to be an uneccesary cost of up to £1500. Dr Boyle also outlined that 3D planning can give unrealistic expectations for post OP results.
I would have my plates and screws left in permanently. According to Dr Boyle only a few cases need the screws and plates removed. Some surgeons in the EU will always remove the plates because they may get infected. However this could just be done to increase the cost of the surgery. However Dr Boyle wasn't biased, he said that alot of the points he mentioned could be used agaisnt him. For example the EU surgeons could say maybe the UK surgeons are using outdated surgery methods by skipping 3D planning.
What Dr Mark Boyle said is whichever surgeon I choose, choose one which does alot of jaw surgery. He does about 50-60 cases a year. Don't choose a surgeon who doesn't do alot of orthoganic surgery.
My conclusion is that the idea that all UK maxilliofacial surgeons are retards is an urban rumour originating from jawsurgeryforums. It's simply not true.
Other useful resources
https://www.bos.org.uk/ and more specifically your jaw surgery. It contains alot of useful information regarding jaw surgery. Another important thing Dr Boyle said is that he doesn't like websites such as jawsurgeryforums (and probably looksmax JFL, but I never mentioned this to him) because they can be an echo chamber of misinformation.
Conclusion and future plans.
Overall I am impressed with Dr Mark Boyle, he is a friendly person who doesn't have a bias. He has over 20 years of experience and has had good results. He is focused on giving you the correct treatment at the lowest price possible. He is not focused on lining up his pockets.
In my opinion the main difference between surgeons as Dr Mark Boyle and other EU surgeons which are praised he is that doesn't offer the additional cosmetic proceedures the famous EU surgeons do. You could view this as him being less aesthetics focused but imo this simply means he doesn't offer the sought after cosmetic proceedures. They all learn the same cuts and techinques, its just down to practical application and previous experience. I am confident he will be perform the same movements as the more renown surgeons.
Get a second opinion from a different jaw surgeon. I was expecting him to say 3 piece lefort 1 and genioplastly but I have no knowledge here. I have recently called up Dr Paul Johnson however I am beginning to see a growing logistical issue because I don't live in London. Having your ortho and maxfac surgeon hours apart seems to be impractical (especially if you live outside London). I will also look into Dr Zarrinbal and Dr Ramieri. Dr Z offers alot of niche surgeries. Ramieri seems appealing because he offers implants (also @Gaia262 ascended with him). I don't think I will see a huge cosmetic improvement to my front profile with jaw surgery alone but I need to think about what subsequent surgeries I want.
I either want infraorbital-malar implants and/or a blepharoplasty + malar implants.
