MSDO (Mandibular symphyseal distraction osteogenesis) the MSE for the lower jaw

[CopeAndRope]

The lower jaw can follow only so much the forced expansion the maxilla is subjected to from the MSE. This, in combination with the MSE can widen the chin, expand the palate, increase the lateral protrusion of the zygos, create hollow cheeks and increase the IPD. If you add to it a FP(FacePuller) you'll have a sagittal growth for total 3D organic("natural") expansion that no LeFort will be able to achieve.

 

[Deleted member 2012]

Even IPD? wow
@eyes gtfih

 

[CopeAndRope]

Even IPD? wow
@eyes gtfih

Yes(the MSE) slightly and indirectly.

 

[DarknLost]

Looks painful ngl

 

[reptiles]

The lower jaw can follow only so much the forced expansion the maxilla is subjected to from the MSE. This, in combination with the MSE can widen the chin, expand the palate, increase the lateral protrusion of the zygos, create hollow cheeks and increase the IPD. If you add to it a FP(FacePuller) you'll have a sagittal growth for total 3D organic("natural") expansion that no LeFort will be able to achieve.

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Jesus christ this should be pinned for all to see it's ridiculous how much innovation today

 

[Deleted member 3043]

mirin science

 

[CopeAndRope]

Looks painful ngl

Beauty is pain.

 

[Slyfex8]

During this time, orthodontists still using braces with rubber bands.

 

[chadpreetinthemaking]

Which redpilled surgeons do this?

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Which redpilled surgeons do this?

 

[Deleted member 2856]

Fucking shit .That's it

 

[Eduardo DOV]

what about TMJ problemns
how do you know the forward growth effect would be big with the facepuller ?

 

[Darkstrand]

How affordable is it? Saying one has to pay 10,000 for MSE, 2,000 for the Facepuller and maybe 15,000 (?) for this it's not really easily affordable for anyone, is it?
Can you do anything to get it cheaper (for a study for example), because I think it's most useful at quite a young age but also not affordable for young people...

 

[KEy21]

How affordable is it? Saying one has to pay 10,000 for MSE, 2,000 for the Facepuller and maybe 15,000 (?) for this it's not really easily affordable for anyone, is it?
Can you do anything to get it cheaper (for a study for example), because I think it's most useful at quite a young age but also not affordable for young people...

I wanna know this too...

I'd apply two appliances to my upper and lower jaw...

I need my parnasal area moved forward 50-100 feet ideally...Thats how recessed it is...Even tho it really only affects the side profile..It still bothers me...

Also my jaw looks great due to fillers but I could certainly use more authentic forward growth...I won't wanna have to pay 5k every 4 months to maintain this.

 

[CopeAndRope]

How affordable is it? Saying one has to pay 10,000 for MSE, 2,000 for the Facepuller and maybe 15,000 (?) for this it's not really easily affordable for anyone, is it?
Can you do anything to get it cheaper (for a study for example), because I think it's most useful at quite a young age but also not affordable for young people...

I wanna know this too...

I'd apply two appliances to my upper and lower jaw...

I need my parnasal area moved forward 50-100 feet ideally...Thats how recessed it is...Even tho it really only affects the side profile..It still bothers me...

Also my jaw looks great due to fillers but I could certainly use more authentic forward growth...I won't wanna have to pay 5k every 4 months to maintain this.

For the facepuller, I think I'm gonna use my version which is $30 to build, there's a "professional" version of my homemade FP which was around $300. Fucking thieves.

Anyway I'm not sure about either the MSE and MSDO. I know the price of the MSE costs around $400, though I'm not gonna say it yet to the ortho, I wanna see if he's gonna be honest and not say some bullshit like the device alone costed $3000, otherwise it will lose my trust and I'll have to look for someone else.

 

[KEy21]

For the facepuller, I think I'm gonna use my version which is $30 to build, there's a "professional" version of my homemade FP which was around $300. Fucking thieves.

Anyway I'm not sure about either the MSE and MSDO. I know the price of the MSE costs around $400, though I'm not gonna say it yet to the ortho, I wanna see if he's gonna be honest and not say some bullshit like the device alone costed $3000, otherwise it will lose my trust and I'll have to look for someone else.

Are there any results online that are comparable to what double jaw could accomplish?? Even within a couple mm less. I'm not gonna lie I'm extremely uneducated and uninformed about any appliances or devices

 

[Darkstrand]

Ronald Ead introduced this method to most of us and shared his concerns of how widening the chin would put stress on the condiles as the rotate in an unnatural position as you can see in the picture with only the mandibular expension marked, what I thought might be the solution is to use MSE and MSDO at the exact same time with the exact same amount of expansion, because than not only the chin would be expanded outward, also the rest of the mandible and thus the condiles can move in their natural place with the expansion of the maxilla...

Key is to use them both at the same time!

Ronald Ead introduced this method to most of us and shared his concerns of how widening the chin would put stress on the condiles as the rotate in an unnatural position as you can see in the picture with only the mandibular expension marked, what I thought might be the solution is to use MSE and MSDO at the exact same time with the exact same amount of expansion, because than not only the chin would be expanded outward, also the rest of the mandible and thus the condiles can move in their natural place with the expansion of the maxilla...

Key is to use them both at the same time!

I hope you can see which picture shows which version

 

[CopeAndRope]

View attachment 155669Ronald Ead introduced this method to most of us and shared his concerns of how widening the chin would put stress on the condiles as the rotate in an unnatural position as you can see in the picture with only the mandibular expension marked, what I thought might be the solution is to use MSE and MSDO at the exact same time with the exact same amount of expansion, because than not only the chin would be expanded outward, also the rest of the mandible and thus the condiles can move in their natural place with the expansion of the maxilla...
View attachment 155668
Key is to use them both at the same time!

I hope you can see which picture shows which version

That's exactly what I'm planning to do. MSE(w/corticopuncture)+MSDO+ Braces(to avoid diastemas) simultaneously.

 

[Darkstrand]

That's exactly what I'm planning to do. MSE(w/corticopuncture)+MSDO+ Braces(to avoid diastemas) simultaneously.

So the braces will basically make place for wisdom teeth as the other teeth remain their position and place for them is being provided?
You are an absolute genius on here, highest IQ by far...

For the facepuller, I think I'm gonna use my version which is $30 to build, there's a "professional" version of my homemade FP which was around $300. Fucking thieves.

Anyway I'm not sure about either the MSE and MSDO. I know the price of the MSE costs around $400, though I'm not gonna say it yet to the ortho, I wanna see if he's gonna be honest and not say some bullshit like the device alone costed $3000, otherwise it will lose my trust and I'll have to look for someone else.

I also read about MSE and MSDO prices around 500, don't you think it's still basically as complex as it gets for braces, MSE drilling the suture and MSDO even making a suture where there is none? I will see how much health care offers to pay considering sleeping and posture problems... Gonna get it myself anyways tho, so probably pic up a weekend job ...

Also about the Facepuller, you really just approached an Orthodontic lab and they accepted all your wishes?

 

[CopeAndRope]

So the braces will basically make place for wisdom teeth as the other teeth remain their position and place for them is being provided?
You are an absolute genius on here, highest IQ by far...

I also read about MSE and MSDO prices around 500, don't you think it's still basically as complex as it gets for braces, MSE drilling the suture and MSDO even making a suture where there is none? I will see how much health care offers to pay considering sleeping and posture problems... Gonna get it myself anyways tho, so probably pic up a weekend job ...

Also about the Facepuller, you really just approached an Orthodontic lab and they accepted all your wishes?

Simple metal braces will cost me 3k, I don't know yet the cost of the installment and treatment for the other two.

The facepuller was built by me, the oral appliance was made by the lab. You just gotta keep asking every lab, eventually one will say yes.

 

[godsmistake]

"Compared to controls, MSDO patients did not experience any increase in TMD symptoms."

i really wish that the orthodontists in my city were experienced with osteodistraction.

 

[Darkstrand]

The lower jaw can follow only so much the forced expansion the maxilla is subjected to from the MSE. This, in combination with the MSE can widen the chin, expand the palate, increase the lateral protrusion of the zygos, create hollow cheeks and increase the IPD. If you add to it a FP(FacePuller) you'll have a sagittal growth for total 3D organic("natural") expansion that no LeFort will be able to achieve.

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How wide can you expand the lower jaw?
I heard often it's between 0,5 and 1 mm per day but only around 5 mm... Do you think this would go with a MSE for a year? (If MSE for so long is even healthy)

 

[CopeAndRope]

How wide can you expand the lower jaw?
I heard often it's between 0,5 and 1 mm per day but only around 5 mm... Do you think this would go with a MSE for a year? (If MSE for so long is even healthy)

How wide you can expand depends on many factors that are different for each one. It depends on how much pressure you put on the mandibular condyles. The MSE and MSDO can be used together.

 

[Deleted member 2581]

How wide you can expand depends on many factors that are different for each one. It depends on how much pressure you put on the mandibular condyles. The MSE and MSDO can be used together.

Are there doctors in California who perform this procedures? And do you know how to find them?

Im kinda lost on finding a dentist who can give these procedures which would fix my issues perfectly

 

[CopeAndRope]

Are there doctors in California who perform this procedures? And do you know how to find them?

Im kinda lost on finding a dentist who can give these procedures which would fix my issues perfectly

Type on google MSE practitioner California. Anyway, I'm not sure anyone here realizes the pain one has to undergo, not only to have his maxilla split with a corticopuncture, but also his chin cut open. Ok, you'll be under anesthesia when these things are done, but after the anesthetic wears off, you'll be in a sea of pain for a few weeks.

 

[Deleted member 2581]

Type on google MSE practitioner California. Anyway, I'm not sure anyone here realizes the pain one has to undergo, not only to have his maxilla split with a corticopuncture, but also his chin cut open. Ok, you'll be under anesthesia when these things are done, but after the anesthetic wears off, you'll be in a sea of pain for a few weeks.

Beauty is pain.

 

[diggbicc]

View attachment 155669Ronald Ead introduced this method to most of us and shared his concerns of how widening the chin would put stress on the condiles as the rotate in an unnatural position as you can see in the picture with only the mandibular expension marked, what I thought might be the solution is to use MSE and MSDO at the exact same time with the exact same amount of expansion, because than not only the chin would be expanded outward, also the rest of the mandible and thus the condiles can move in their natural place with the expansion of the maxilla...
View attachment 155668
Key is to use them both at the same time!

I hope you can see which picture shows which version

This + mewing will give near foolproof results.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

I also have narrow palate and subideal orthognatic profile

I also have lower than average amount of teeth


originally, I planned to do a Bimax, but I would need to get my wisdom teeth extracted, and I dont want to lose more


I am considering SARPE with MSDO now (already have braces)
and after that, I planned to transplant my third molars to use as normal teeth, after lower palate is expanded and made sufficient space

What do you think of that?
I am happy that you mentioned MSDO, Because I never considered it before (it was bad-mouthed on several forums)

 

[CopeAndRope]

I am considering SARPE with MSDO now (already have braces)
and after that, I planned to transplant my third molars to use as normal teeth, after lower palate is expanded and made sufficient space

What do you think of that?
I am happy that you mentioned MSDO, Because I never considered it before (it was bad-mouthed on several forums)

Probably I'm gonna need 2 pairs of molars as well after all the expansions. Especially if I'm going to do imdo after msdo.

Why was msdo bad-mouthed?

 

[Deleted member 3990]

Probably I'm gonna need 2 pairs of molars as well after all the expansions. Especially if I'm going to do imdo after msdo.

Why was msdo bad-mouthed?

condyles and TMJ mainly


Are you also thinking about transplantation of the third molars? Or implants?

The literature is thin about third molar transplantation

 

[CopeAndRope]

condyles and TMJ mainly


Are you also thinking about transplantation of the third molars? Or implants?

The literature is thin about third molar transplantation

I already linked in other posts that the bicondiles width barely changes with msdo.

Yes, I'm gonna need those extra teeth to keep my mandibles from receding and alveolar bridges from being crooked.

The only thing I'm not sure is how much should I expand forward. Is 2cm too much? I don't wanna end up looking like a wolf.

One of the pros of D.O. is that you expand every day and you're in control, but the cons is that you may end up realizing that you expanded too much afterwards without realizing itit0.

 

[Traxanas]

Ronald Ead is going with a more gentle approach, SFOT which also seems legit

edit: nvm, this shit is just as invasive, they cut your gums and place extra bone so teeth are able to move easier thus expansion is directed

 

[Deleted member 2621]

The lower jaw can follow only so much the forced expansion the maxilla is subjected to from the MSE. This, in combination with the MSE can widen the chin, expand the palate, increase the lateral protrusion of the zygos, create hollow cheeks and increase the IPD. If you add to it a FP(FacePuller) you'll have a sagittal growth for total 3D organic("natural") expansion that no LeFort will be able to achieve.

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Could it also increase chin projection and improve my jawline? Also, where and how is it attached?

 

[CopeAndRope]

Could it also increase chin projection and improve my jawline? Also, where and how is it attached?

You need msdo and imdo to improve your entire lower jaw.

 

[Darkstrand]

This + mewing will give near foolproof results.

Totally, but you also don't wanna forget about the Facepuller as mewing gives mostly upward growth and the FP makes up for the forward growth

 

[SayNoToRotting]

I wanna know this too...

 

[Dino Hamciaren]

I'm not sure if I'd go the MSDO route. The MSE is the most invasive thing I consider doing.

If anything, I'll try the trombone appliance. I know it mostly (or only) expands the the dental arch and not the mandible itself, but it should be enough.

 

[chadpreetinthemaking]

I'm not sure if I'd go the MSDO route. The MSE is the most invasive thing I consider doing.

If anything, I'll try the trombone appliance. I know it mostly (or only) expands the the dental arch and not the mandible itself, but it should be enough.

Well this isnt that invasive tbh, osteogenesis isnt too bad and the surgeons that do it tend to get good results. This could really be worthwhile if you want to upgrade your lower third.

 

[Cretinous]

pie in the sky surgery

 

[BackFromTheMogging]

The lower jaw can follow only so much the forced expansion the maxilla is subjected to from the MSE. This, in combination with the MSE can widen the chin, expand the palate, increase the lateral protrusion of the zygos, create hollow cheeks and increase the IPD. If you add to it a FP(FacePuller) you'll have a sagittal growth for total 3D organic("natural") expansion that no LeFort will be able to achieve.

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Beautiful

 

[softLoverr]

You better have some morphine ready too if you are doing both at the same time, cant imagine the pain. Also be ready to eat with a straw.

 

[chadpreetinthemaking]

Ronald Ead is going with a more gentle approach, SFOT which also seems legit
View attachment 173214
edit: nvm, this shit is just as invasive, they cut your gums and place extra bone so teeth are able to move easier thus expansion is directed

Woah okay that looed like the bigonial width changed ALOT. I need this exactly, I need to get my palate expanded and I need to get a wider jaw and chin.

 

[OldRooster]

The docs that do MSE claim MSE is the MSE for the lower jaw. But they provide liitle or no xrays that prove this. I will be meeting with one of those docs in a few weeks, i will press them showing me additional xrays.

 

[curryslayerordeath]

where do u find docs that work with this stuff? afaik none of my local orthodontists would've even heard of this. rly sucks bc i really need the expansion

 

[AllBrainsNeedednow]

nm