GetShrekt
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Imagine reading this
I think the reason why we keep having the same thread every week is because it is not binary and never will be. Why? There will always be multiple factors in such discussions - if one is to understand the blackpill in its entirety then it needs to account for every nuance and every situation relative to other factors with a grounding in looks theory and its elements (dimorphism, averageness, pheno).
Threads as such will always be diminutive in what they are trying to achieve since every factor is not taken into account by every person in these discussions and is hard to do so because there are always pieces of the puzzle that you're trying to learn. Most people tend to orient these discussions towards mogging or slaying
But it can't just be recessed 22% bf 15-year-olds with Maher avis discussing the scope of height vs face in regards to slaying only and then going "height matters", but others with LTR orientation or older users with real life experience, giving their input and then these vague back-and-forths
There are so, so many factors. For example:
In some regions or places there are 190cm KHHVs that have 3.75 or 4 PSL faces and meh or shit pheno. In others they are slaying. It's not binary. 4PSL 190cm guy can slay in a decent area with passing pheno or if white, on certain dating apps like hinge
- Pheno
- Race
- Pheno/racial biases or stereotypes
- PSL: objective aesthetic rating
- Appeal vs aesthetic
- For instance, Barrett or DePoot having insanely high PSL but there are guys with less PSL but more appeal. This also is linked with pheno and soft features, etc. PSL scale, someone can be 4.25 PSL but a good pheno which can give them good appeal. Appeal, then, is also amplified by halos (of which a subcategory is height and to an extent, noticeable frame). Exposure effect also increases appeal, as does aura/personality. Exposure effect is also more likely in social circles, which... tends to increase success rate on average if one's NT and such
- SMV vs appeal (vs aesthetic)
- SMV (usually for slaying) can be high even being 4.25 PSL, think 6/10. Whereas Barrett may be 7 PSL but have an SMV of 9 only. It's not going to be directly proportional. This comes down to pheno/race, halos (including height here + good body etc), status too
- PSL on average just secures a good base for LTRs or slaying but doesn't give one a directly proportionally higher SMV or appeal than someone who's closer to 4 PSL than to 5.5
- Halos
- Embrace the Niko smilepill
- LTR or Slaying?
- Status pill
- Frame, muscle insertions
- Facial dimorphism, including adiposity etc.
- Exposure effect (better for LTRs)
- Social circles
- NTness and personality
- Type of women you're seeking out
- How NT are you, how much are you even trying to seek out?
- What are you trying to seek out? Slays or LTR?
- Looksmatch range or no?
- Ethnic or phenomatch?
- Nichemaxxed?
- Their personal preferences?
- Country, region, culture (French = more promicuous, blackpilled etc. EE = girls higher PSL, etc etc.)
- Personal preferences: biological markers, or dimorphism
- Impact of personality on them i.e. exposure effect once you meet their looks threshold
- What the woman's own preferences are
- Culture dependent, again
- LTR or slays? Degenerate or modest?
- Depth and LTR-oriented or dates down for ego, thinks she can keep doing better etc.
- Where she leans
- i.e. dimorphic men
- prettier men with dimorphic traits
- SMV > face
- appeal > aesthetic
- cute vs hot
- average men (self aware of looksmatch) although this is rarer
- dates down facially for security of mate, but would like a "tall, ugly guy" because she still gets her biological needs met
- her value placed on face vs. other biological markers i.e. penis, frame, height etc.
- some value those more than face because of dating down, securing mate for LTR etc. different priorities, y'know
- Re: LTR - How she was raised and what she finds matters to her based on her values i.e. can compromise some height if personality is good, body/frame is good, face is decent
Bottom line? What's important is meeting looks threshold. That tends to be 4.5-4.75 PSL, around 6.25-6.5/10 in normie range with good pheno that could halo and inflate your rating. That should get you a wide range of solid MTBs (w good bodies) and/or ethnics that are slightly higher. Good for LTR success because looksmatched and you're good enough for her to not want to do better. Normie ratings will inflate your rating to a 7 if good height. Similarly height will inflate your SMV too and makes it easier to achieve higher SMV when face is lower
Thereafter meeting looks threshold, height, frame, and an above average dick etc. are just multipliers. I'm biased but I think you will have wider appeal meeting the looks threshold than being average face and having multipliers because only a minority of women are more into pure height + frame etc. > face and most of the time not even for LTRs, just for slaying (slaying is not my interest). That's why blacks can slay even with meh faces because of penile and height, frame halos/reputation, but are harder to LTR
Discussion is nuanced, never ending. Just meet the looks threshold. And if good height, then make use of it and meet the looks threshold as much as you can for it to be a genuine halo on your face. I'm sure you'd not want to slay just because of height, body. Your looks is your life, personality, self-esteem. Improve it, and take advantage of good height for career, and general treatment from men and women alike
As for normie height, where the guy passes the height threshold, then height doesn't matter if they go LTR after threshold. For slaying better face and higher PSL will be needed to compensate with lesser height. More will always be better in women's eyes (think that hinge study where 6'6 was ideal) but it doesn't mean that you can't be happy and she can't be happy with you if you lack these attractiveness/appeal multipliers... so as long as you do what? Meet the looks threshold. Oh, and also going for your looksmatches PSL-wise, appeal-wise, ethnicity or pheno-wise to lock them in. You could get above your looksmatch in an LTR and she could be happy depending on location. Harder for this in the west though...
