Retin-A Causes Loss of Subcutaneous Fat

Yusu

Yusu

Juliencentral Fanboy 2020/2021 😍😍
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Posts
1,424
Reputation
1,233
Time online
25d 21h 25m
Morpheus said:
I’m seeing so much conflicting info. What’s the verdict? I’m planning on starting tret soon but my midface is already pretty flat so I can’t really afford to lose any volume there. But there’s nothing as good for retaining collagen with age as tret so idk.
I would not risk it. I used it for 2 months and I think that I loose some fat, however could be placebo or other reasons.

But it seems like there is truly a mechanism that can cause fat loss in some people
 
jackieboy21

jackieboy21

Knowledgable
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Posts
663
Reputation
437
Time online
24d 10h 13m
Ha
africancel said:
How long? Have you lost facial fat? Or fat around the eye area leading to more UEE or worse undereye support.
Havent seen anything yet, only been using for about a month, will keep updated but i am paying close attention and will stop immediatly if any fat loss occurs
 
D

Deleted member 10536

Skyrim NPC
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Posts
7,311
Reputation
9,162
Time online
64d 12h 26m
Schizoidcel said:
Tret fucked my shit up tbh. Affected my eyes so now I have dry painful eyes 24/7 even weeks after quitting. I never applied it directly on my undereye area.
Skin is also permanently dry & tight even with tons of moisturizing, like my skin refuses to absorb anything. I believe my moisture barrier is destroyed, maybe worse. It also gave me enlarged pores and pores connect on my forehead giving the illusion of wrinkles which I didn't have before. Yes I used sunscreen and moisturized while on it.

It is already known that retinoids are bad for your meibomian glands, who knows what kind of other bad stuff it's also doing that we'll find out in decades? Retinoids are not for everyone, IMO.

Tbh a joke and hard to take this seriously. You can't even compare retinoid to retina strength wise.
 
jackieboy21

jackieboy21

Knowledgable
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Posts
663
Reputation
437
Time online
24d 10h 13m
eduardkoopman said:
Just ordered

Thank for the tipp. I hope it helps a bit. I got some fillers now also, which helped a little already. with that HA fillers, I think I go back on the retinA as well.
Black sircles are getting worse and worse of bitch to me. DAMN.

I ordered this one. it has DMAE and Hylaronic acid. Both hopefully help some to fill this shit up some more: https://www.perriconemd.co.uk/firming-eye-lift-serum.html
Is DMAE an injectable or a serum?
 
PapiMew

PapiMew

Mod
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Posts
3,299
Reputation
6,543
Time online
194d 5m
Schizoidcel said:
Tret fucked my shit up tbh. Affected my eyes so now I have dry painful eyes 24/7 even weeks after quitting. I never applied it directly on my undereye area.
Skin is also permanently dry & tight even with tons of moisturizing, like my skin refuses to absorb anything. I believe my moisture barrier is destroyed, maybe worse. It also gave me enlarged pores and pores connect on my forehead giving the illusion of wrinkles which I didn't have before. Yes I used sunscreen and moisturized while on it.

It is already known that retinoids are bad for your meibomian glands, who knows what kind of other bad stuff it's also doing that we'll find out in decades? Retinoids are not for everyone, IMO.

This is what I was referring when I said tret should not be applied around the eye area regardless if you aren’t predisposed to the fat loss side effect. Dry eyes has been reported a multitude of times on r/Tretenoin.
 
Deleted member 10524

Deleted member 10524

Bonesmashing
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Posts
7,379
Reputation
16,101
Time online
85d 32m
PapiMew said:
This is what I was referring when I said tret should not be applied around the eye area regardless if you aren’t predisposed to the fat loss side effect. Dry eyes has been reported a multitude of times on r/Tretenoin.
How does one maintain eye area collagen then?
 
eduardkoopman

eduardkoopman

Zephir
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Posts
14,750
Reputation
19,743
Time online
260d 12h 18m
jackieboy21 said:
Is DMAE an injectable or a serum?
i had it in a serum. (was mixed with other stuff.)
That thing i bought from Perricore. Expensive as shit. Mainly cope. saw little change.
 
PapiMew

PapiMew

Mod
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Posts
3,299
Reputation
6,543
Time online
194d 5m
Idfkbruh said:
How does one maintain eye area collagen then?
If you referring to dark circles and eye bags no amount of product will keep the desired neonteous look. There is a lack of bone deficiency and implants or osteotomies are the only solutions.
 
needsurgeryasap

needsurgeryasap

Amateur
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Posts
385
Reputation
316
Time online
4d 11h 31m
PapiMew said:
If you referring to dark circles and eye bags no amount of product will keep the desired neonteous look. There is a lack of bone deficiency and implants or osteotomies are the only solutions.
What about fat transfer?
 
RAITEIII

RAITEIII

Ruleth 1
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Posts
17,661
Reputation
18,845
Time online
211d 22h 8m
DrTony said:
I always respect the posters who take the time to provide references (I will pretend as if I didn't see the reddit links/realself etc.) even if their hypothesis-driven question is ridiculous. It shows respect towards other members of the forum
So this means that you disagree with the hypothesis of this thread?
 
TurboFixer

TurboFixer

Instructor
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Posts
539
Reputation
521
Time online
14d 16h 7m

This mainly focuses on accutane - he says tret is localized on the skin with 20% of the exposure so its not quite as harmful. Worth watching though I think.
 
needsurgeryasap

needsurgeryasap

Amateur
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Posts
385
Reputation
316
Time online
4d 11h 31m
TurboFixer said:

This mainly focuses on accutane - he says tret is localized on the skin with 20% of the exposure so its not quite as harmful. Worth watching though I think.
So we trade collagen for cellular integrity of skin. What does that even mean?
 
TurboFixer

TurboFixer

Instructor
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Posts
539
Reputation
521
Time online
14d 16h 7m
needsurgeryasap said:
So we trade collagen for cellular integrity of skin. What does that even mean?
melanoma risk?? idk tbqh
 
Deleted member 6273

Deleted member 6273

Brb detoxing, can't respond to DMs for now.
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Posts
9,192
Reputation
22,256
Time online
205d 10m
needsurgeryasap said:
So we trade collagen for cellular integrity of skin. What does that even mean?
Retin a (retinoids) might cause cellular mutation in the skin which may cause melanoma and or a myriad of other problems.
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
sloopnoob

sloopnoob

Zephir
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Posts
2,761
Reputation
4,236
Time online
105d 21h 29m
Dope said:
sloopnoob @sloopnoob
we've gone over it alot of times, what about it?
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
sloopnoob said:
we've gone over it alot of times, what about it?
Some of the studies he linked showed adipogenesis outside the rat one
 
sloopnoob

sloopnoob

Zephir
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Posts
2,761
Reputation
4,236
Time online
105d 21h 29m
Dope said:
Some of the studies he linked showed adipogenesis outside the rat one
I'm kinna busy so can't go through them, but isn't adipogenesis good tho. I think most fat loss horror stories are from people using too high of a strength too frequently.
 
Deleted member 5927

Deleted member 5927

strive motherfucker strive
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Posts
8,765
Reputation
17,052
Time online
74d 9h 5m
CopeTilliRope said:
yeah accutane is god tier when it comes to clearing skin and complexion but had to stop it due to hair thinning / joint problem
Wait you had hair thinning on accutane? Did it ever go away?
 
B

Bishop

Trainee
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Posts
94
Reputation
116
Time online
4d 10h 0m
What about Retinol? It gets transformed to Retin-A in you skin, aka it might cause less Fat loss?
 
Wallenberg

Wallenberg

Zephir
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Posts
11,971
Reputation
17,763
Time online
132d 6h 31m
What if I only use Retin-A on my lower face where I have fat but not around the eye area and forehead? I assume the effect is local?
 
Deleted member 5927

Deleted member 5927

strive motherfucker strive
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Posts
8,765
Reputation
17,052
Time online
74d 9h 5m
Bishop said:
What about Retinol? It gets transformed to Retin-A in you skin, aka it might cause less Fat loss?
Don’t even bother with that shit. It doesn’t even do anything to your skin at all. Made it SLIGHTLY smoother after like a fucking month but it’s just not even worth using. Use retin A it’s literally cheaper and it actually fucking works. Retinol is a joke.
 
everythingisacope

everythingisacope

I don't believe in yesterday
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Posts
2,463
Reputation
3,238
Time online
32d 16h 46m
PapiMew said:
Edit: It seems like a got abundance of questions on why this is bad. First, I recommend you at least try to read most of the thread. If you can't, refer to my [Note:] at the very bottom.

Now why this is bad you ask? It depends on how you look at it but facial fat is key in creating facial fullness alongside collagen. If you want more insight look up the results of subcutaneous fat loss over a span of time.



Also, why this might be good? Let’s say you are predisposed to this side effect. You could indefinitely use it as spot reduction.

TLDR: Transretinoic acid impairs the PPAR-gamma transcription factors that control lipogenesis. The bulk of those who experience this effect are relatively young and thus have not dealt with the UV-induced fat loss common in older people, so that is likely why the fat loss is more pronounced and noticeable.

Background: Saturday night I mentioned to a couple of users about how I when I tried Retin-A for a couple of months earlier in the year I got acne scars for the first time. Another user told me they shared the same experience. However, they also mentioned they heard that Tretinoin may cause fat loss, so they were using it very scarcely if any at all. I indefinitely assumed it was an external factor (Diet, Lifestyle) and Retin-A couldn't have possibly been the root of the problem. This was news to me as I never had heard such a claim.

That led me to decide to Google --> Retin-A Fat Loss and well that led me down a rabbit hole that I will share…

The first thread I opened was this: https://www.realself.com/question/atlanta-la-retin-a-cause-fat-loss-please-answer

Summary: A user on Realself complained about fat loss around the cheeks after only a few weeks of 0.05% usage. OP claimed she hadn’t changed anything relating to diet or lifestyle. The only external factor that had been changed was the addition of tretinoin.

Dr. Morgan replied claiming she does notice a sudden loss of buccal fat, which is unusual. She refers to multiple laboratory studies on mice that show that vitamin A can lead to loss of fat or loss of different kinds of fat. Furthermore, she does claim that there have yet to be any studies conducted that claim Retin-A caused fat loss in humans.

The very next thread pertained more to me. A user claiming they had experienced acne scars.
I then decided to look into some studies, I needed some scientific research backing these anecdotal claims.

Studies claiming that retinoic acid directly impairs the process of adipogenesis by inhibiting adipocyte differentiation in several ways both in Vivo (When research or work is done with or within an entire, living organism) and Vitro (Work that's performed outside of a living organism):

To summarize the studies are claiming retinoids do indeed inhibit fat production in some shape or form.
User on reddit summarized this very well:
https ://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/8rn11p/anti_aging_how_to_fix_deplated_looking_face/e18sr1h/

A study claiming that Vitamin A ingested orally can affect fat adiposity in mice:
Vitamin A is a regulator of adipose growth.Tretinoin (Retin-A) is a derivative of Vitamin A. High doses of Vitamin A can cause a significant reduction in adipose index, and a significant reduction in white adipose (Fat).

Why has there been no clinical trials in which participants noted a loss in facial fat?
  • Most literature on retinoids has been performed with middle-aged females as subjects.
  • Perhaps a loss in subcutaneous fat would not be noted in these cases because most of the facial fat of people in this age group has already been nuked by chronic UVA ray exposure.
  • Also, there has been no long-term research following people who have used retinoids for 20+ years.
Note: I genuinely think that there might be some sort of genetic component that puts certain people at more of a risk. I don't think that drastic fat loss will occur in the majority of people who use retinoids, and may very well not apply to your skin type and I think it is also very possible that the effects of retinoids are not as well understood as many would like to believe.
its unironically a looksmax for males...hollow cheeks for free
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
Alexanderr said:
I’m still confused, some seem to agree with OP and others seem to disagree. Six pages later, is there a conclusive answer?
Nope, but the people saying that retin a works on 40+ year olds therefore it should work on younger people clearly haven't even read the thread so just disregard all those comments.
 
Deleted member 10524

Deleted member 10524

Bonesmashing
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Posts
7,379
Reputation
16,101
Time online
85d 32m
Dope said:
Nope, but the people saying that retin a works on 40+ year olds therefore it should work on younger people clearly haven't even read the thread so just disregard all those comments.
Are you saying it doesn’t work on younger people?
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
Idfkbruh said:
Are you saying it doesn’t work on younger people?
Not really, just saying that it working on older people isn't proof that it will be just as effective on younger ones
 
Deleted member 10524

Deleted member 10524

Bonesmashing
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Posts
7,379
Reputation
16,101
Time online
85d 32m
Dope said:
Not really, just saying that it working on older people isn't proof that it will be just as effective on younger ones
For what
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
C

Chad1212

med pheno + perm = frauding lightskin
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Posts
20,106
Reputation
31,985
Time online
204d 4h 49m
Dope said:
Anti aging wdym for what
Iam confused
So does Retin-a even work for young teens who already have decent skin but not decent enough to be considered model tier?
 
Julian

Julian

Zephir
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Posts
4,950
Reputation
7,159
Time online
100d 22h 45m
Chad1212 said:
Iam confused
So does Retin-a even work for young teens who already have decent skin but not decent enough to be considered model tier?

ye
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
Chad1212 said:
Iam confused
So does Retin-a even work for young teens who already have decent skin but not decent enough to be considered model tier?
For young teens you'd be using it for acne, not for anti aging. And yeah it's pretty effective
 
C

Chad1212

med pheno + perm = frauding lightskin
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Posts
20,106
Reputation
31,985
Time online
204d 4h 49m
Dope said:
For young teens you'd be using it for acne, not for anti aging. And yeah it's pretty effective
Would it cure mild rosacea?
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
Chad1212 said:
Would it cure rosacea?
I think so, but it might actually make it worse if you apply it without wearing sunscreen
 
C

Chad1212

med pheno + perm = frauding lightskin
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Posts
20,106
Reputation
31,985
Time online
204d 4h 49m
Dope said:
I think so, but it might actually make it worse if you apply it without wearing sunscreen
Woah
Tell me more about the sunscreen thing
 
D

Deleted member 2205

1/1000000
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
17,754
Reputation
22,902
Time online
125d 7h 36m
Chad1212 said:
Woah
Tell me more about the sunscreen thing
Tretinoin makes your skin sensitive to the sun, which may make rosacea worse. It thins the stratum corneum, which usually protects against sun damage. By using sunscreen or protecting yourself from the sun with clothing (sun hat, long sleeves), you prevent sun damage.

It sounds backwards, since people use retin a to reverse photoaging, but without sunscreen retin a really is kind of useless. Actually it might be worse than not using anything at all.
 
C

Chad1212

med pheno + perm = frauding lightskin
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Posts
20,106
Reputation
31,985
Time online
204d 4h 49m
Dope said:
Tretinoin makes your skin sensitive to the sun, which may make rosacea worse. It thins the stratum corneum, which usually protects against sun damage. By using sunscreen or protecting yourself from the sun with clothing (sun hate, long sleeves), you prevent sun damage.

It sounds backwards, since people use retin a to reverse photoaging, but without sunscreen retin a really is kind of useless. Actually it might be worse than not using anything at all.
Woah
Thank you mate
 
sandcelmuttcel

sandcelmuttcel

Zephir
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Posts
9,833
Reputation
11,129
Time online
146d 14h 26m
i kept saying this but people called me troll
 
jellyfish101

jellyfish101

Mage
Joined
Dec 5, 2020
Posts
768
Reputation
1,365
Time online
26d 2m
Don’t apply it around eyes, done and done
 
Deleted member 6273

Deleted member 6273

Brb detoxing, can't respond to DMs for now.
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Posts
9,192
Reputation
22,256
Time online
205d 10m
jellyfish101 said:
Don’t apply it around eyes, done and done
Migration
 
Soalian

Soalian

Zephir
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Posts
3,239
Reputation
2,582
Time online
85d 1h 32m
jellyfish101 said:
Don’t apply it around eyes, done and done
But under eye area is where good collagen is most needed, when it fades with age IMO.
 
Henry_Gandy

Henry_Gandy

Wizard
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Posts
1,359
Reputation
1,869
Time online
97d 14h 43m
Soalian said:
But under eye area is where good collagen is most needed, when it fades with age IMO.
I think just use aloe vera around there, also if you lose any fat with Retin-A just use adipofil. Problem solved, now you don't lose your fat pads (can be maintained with adipofil) and you have God-tier skin: https://looksmax.org/threads/under-eye-maxxing-guide.293104/
 
RecessedPrettyboy

RecessedPrettyboy

👁️
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Posts
3,452
Reputation
5,214
Time online
195d 5h 55m
Henry_Gandy said:
I think just use aloe vera around there, also if you lose any fat with Retin-A just use adipofil. Problem solved, now you don't lose your fat pads (can be maintained with adipofil) and you have God-tier skin: https://looksmax.org/threads/under-eye-maxxing-guide.293104/
This adipofil shit doesnt really work. The "study" is done by the company making it, seems like bullshit tbh.
I bought one and used for i think two months didnt do shit. And by the way it had a fragance added with god knows what fucking shitty toxic chemicals in it
Pufa oils should work tho. Like sunflower oil.
 
Soalian

Soalian

Zephir
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Posts
3,239
Reputation
2,582
Time online
85d 1h 32m
Last edited:
eduardkoopman

eduardkoopman

Zephir
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Posts
14,750
Reputation
19,743
Time online
260d 12h 18m
Bishop said:
What about Retinol? It gets transformed to Retin-A in you skin, aka it might cause less Fat loss?
retinol = so many times lower in "strength". Like 10x-20x weaker.
 
Soalian

Soalian

Zephir
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Posts
3,239
Reputation
2,582
Time online
85d 1h 32m
eduardkoopman said:
retinol = so many times lower in "strength". Like 10x-20x weaker.
So, Retin-A 0.05% = about Retinol 0.0025% I guess
 
eduardkoopman

eduardkoopman

Zephir
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Posts
14,750
Reputation
19,743
Time online
260d 12h 18m
Soalian said:
So, Retin-A 0.05% = about Retinol 0.0025% I guess
mayeb. I dunno. I haven't done th research. I have read texts long long time ago, I recall. Retinol sounded very weak, comparative.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top