The Environment vs Genetics dichotomy is quite flawed

[Bvnny.]

Human societies are a result of genetics, sociological theories about how the individual can shape society and society can shape individuals are all bullshit, society is just an expression of the collective genes of the people in a certain time and location.

Every tendency of yours is pre-determined by your neural development when you were a fetus, people may cope and say "muhhh diet", but your mom's diet while pregnant was, most likely, determined by her genes and how they affected the way she sees different types of foods and shit.

I cage every time someone says that humans are completely different from other animals because we're "rational", there is no proven biological aspect of yours that makes you completely different from other animals, there's really no difference between humans creating cars while monkeys create small tools, if we were to simulate a world with all animal species but humans, we would prove that another animal species would come to a level of technological development analogous to that of humans.

Even when we talk about the real environment, things that are out of human control like nature, we kinda try to control those things just to adapt them to our own genes, so I would say that everything related to humans is a result of genes or tend to be reshaped to fit our genes.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Are you saying it's 100% genes? It's not like that, environment/nurturing does play a role.

 

[Bvnny.]

Are you saying it's 100% genes? It's not like that, environment/nurturing does play a role.

Read the post, I'm saying that environment/nurturing, when we're talking about humans, are still related to our genes

Our perception of "environment" when we talk about human interactions is an illusion.

 

[Deleted member 6723]

agreed said this to someone months ago

 

[Amexmaxx]

For bones

 

[vanillaicecream]

Read the post, I'm saying that environment/nurturing, when we're talking about humans, are still related to our genes

Our impression of "environment" when we talk about human interactions is an illusion.

I did just too low IQ to fully understand where you're trying to get at. If we talk about offspring development, the way I see it it's mostly about knowledge. If a person is knowledgable enough to put their offspring through optimal development then this won't be influenced by genes (not how much they'll develop but just knowing what optimal nurturing and environment is like).

 

[Bvnny.]

View attachment 1352185
For bones

 

[Bvnny.]

I did just too low IQ to fully understand where you're trying to get at. If we talk about offspring development, the way I see it it's mostly about knowledge. If a person is knowledgable enough to put their offspring through optimal development then this won't be influenced by genes (not how much they'll develop but just knowing what optimal nurturing and environment is like).

Your intelligence is determined by your genes, if you're intelligent enough to know that taking a certain diet your offspring will be better off, it's just your genes making you acknowledge that you have bad genes and, therefore, you need to somehow adapt a certain lifestyle so that your offspring doesn't get completely fucked up.

Do you really think that chad's mom was think about what to eat so that chad would have perfect bones and shit? Totally not, she was just following her natural instincts as a fogger and gave birth to a mogger. Self-improvement is really only a thing for genetically inferior people, genetically superior people are just good at things naturally.

Like, I have a high iq, there's no need for me to study math, I just know how to solve math problems by myself so I don't bother reading books about calculus. And I'm not talking about high-school math, I'm graduating as an engineer, talking about hardcore calculus here.

 

[Deleted member 3828]

I cage every time someone says that humans are completely different from other animals because we're "rational", there is no proven biological aspect of yours that makes you completely different from other animals, there's really no difference between humans creating cars while monkeys create small tools, if we were to simulate a world with all animal species but humans, we would prove that another animal species would come to a level of technological development analogous to that of humans.

I don't deny the possibility of the theory of evolution being true to such a high degree

but humans are like a masterpiece compared to chimps jfl just think about the fact that you can communicate here using the Internet and that can use articulated speech etc.
Nothing else comes close in the animal kingdom

 

[Bvnny.]

but humans are like a masterpiece compared to chimps jfl just think about the fact that you can communicate here using the Internet and that can use articulated speech etc.
Nothing else comes close in the animal kingdom

Yeah, because some technologies are simply more useful than others if we're talking about genetic potential

All high iq animals besides humans, like monkeys and dolphins, have some types of proto-languages for example, which is a highly useful technology if we think about it.

It's really just a matter of letting them live on with their lifes, and continue developing some technologies here and there, that 100000 years from now they're gonna be moggers.

 

[disillusioned]

I cage every time someone says that humans are completely different from other animals because we're "rational"

This is mostly true for the braindead NPC normie hordes but the fact we have intelligent elites that take advantage of the idiot masses suggests that there exist rationalist elements of humans that can think critically even if they are a minority.

 

[thegoat]

society is just an expression of the collective genes of the people

This makes sense, but when you zoom in and just focus on one particular person, distinguishing the environment vs genetics is definitely meaningful. Twin studies are done in science all the time to show how people with identical genes respond to different environments. For example, if you take two twins and put one in a family where the stepdad rapes them, and one in another family where they are sent to a rich private school, you're coping if you think they wouldnt turn out completely different.

 

[Bvnny.]

This makes sense, but when you zoom in and just focus on one particular person, distinguishing the environment vs genetics is definitely meaningful. Twin studies are done in science all the time to show how people with identical genes respond to different environments. For example, if you take two twins and put one in a family where the stepdad rapes them, and one in another family where they are sent to a rich private school, you're coping if you think they wouldnt turn out completely different.

It is still about genetics, their genes are simply responding to different scenarios, like, that doesn't mean they inherently changed because of their environment, like they adapted to that or something, if the other brother were to be raped as well he would pretty much live a life analogous to that of his brother, because both have the same genetic predisposition to react in the same way regarding getting raped by dad.

If you take an animal away from their mother they will develop in a different way to another animal that didn't get to pass through the same experience, now, does that mean that they adapted themselves to their environment? No, they're still just genetically predisposed to act in the same way regarding this occurrence.

 

[thegoat]

It is still about genetics, their genes are simply responding to different scenarios, like, that doesn't mean they inherently changed because of their environment, like they adapted to that or something, if the other brother were to be raped as well he would pretty much live a life analogous to that of his brother, because both have the same genetic predisposition to react in the same way regarding getting raped by dad.

If you take an animal away from their mother they will develop in a different way to another animal that didn't get to pass through the same experience, now, does that mean that they adapted themselves to their environment? No, they're still just genetically predisposed to act in the same way regarding this occurrence.

JFL, ofc their responses are based off genetics, but end of the day these twins will turn into completely different people, which proves that ENVIRONMENT had an effect on their personality IN ADDITION to genes

 

[Bvnny.]

JFL, ofc their responses are based off genetics, but end of the day these twins will turn into completely different people, which proves that ENVIRONMENT had an effect on their personality IN ADDITION to genes

Yeah, they're gonna live different lives, which doesn't mean the environment changed them in any substantial way, they're just responding to the different stimuli provided by their different environments. There is a differentiation between genotype and phenotype exactly because your genes are not the same as to how they're gonna actually manifest regarding different scenarios.

 

[WhatIsMyPlan?]

Human societies are a result of genetics, sociological theories about how the individual can shape society and society can shape individuals are all bullshit, society is just an expression of the collective genes of the people in a certain time and location.

Every tendency of yours is pre-determined by your neural development when you were a fetus, people may cope and say "muhhh diet", but your mom's diet while pregnant was, most likely, determined by her genes and how they affected the way she sees different types of foods and shit.

I cage every time someone says that humans are completely different from other animals because we're "rational", there is no proven biological aspect of yours that makes you completely different from other animals, there's really no difference between humans creating cars while monkeys create small tools, if we were to simulate a world with all animal species but humans, we would prove that another animal species would come to a level of technological development analogous to that of humans.

Even when we talk about the real environment, things that are out of human control like nature, we kinda try to control those things just to adapt them to our own genes, so I would say that everything related to humans is a result of genes or tend to be reshaped to fit our genes.

You stole my thread jackass. Come up with your own observations instead of copying others so that you can IQ fraud.

 

[WhatIsMyPlan?]

JFL, ofc their responses are based off genetics, but end of the day these twins will turn into completely different people, which proves that ENVIRONMENT had an effect on their personality IN ADDITION to genes

Yeah buddy, and if you pull a plastic bag over your head you die because your environment didn't have the oxygen you needed to survive. Human biology dictates that you need oxygen to survive, and that is determined through genetics.

Environment causes to expression or lack of expression of certain genes, but it does not change them. At the end of the day, how you react to your environment is your genes, so it still comes down to genes in the end.

 

[Deleted member 14139]

I don't deny the possibility of the theory of evolution being true to such a high degree

but humans are like a masterpiece compared to chimps jfl just think about the fact that you can communicate here using the Internet and that can use articulated speech etc.
Nothing else comes close in the animal kingdom

what makes humans so special? The nature of our intelligence is only special/important by our own standard/perception. Sure it helped us survive, but every animal/plant out there is surivivng just fine without intelligence, which means it's not an intrinsically important trait (considering the only thing that matters is reproduction). We descended from fungus 800 million years ago, and the earliest fossil of fungus is estimated to be 1.5 billion years old. At best, the modern intelligent human has been around for 300 thousand years. Fungus has no cerebral or abstract thinking but they've survived magnitudes the time we have in much more severe conditions and climates. It's suspected agriculture as we know it can not be sustained for longer than 50 years, and that we might be facing extreme food shortages due to bees dying (they're the reason we have food). Not to mention climate change. We're fucking up the planet already and we've only had civilization civilization a couple thousands years




Humans = joke

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Phenotype = Genotype + Environment

But, especially in todays developed countries, we vastly overestimate the role environment plays.

Life is a Game in which your success can only ever be measured in percentile of (LMS) and is therefore innately a joke

 

[Reckless Turtle]

I understand your point, but environment does explain differences in individuals. Even perfect clones will inherently be subjected to different environmental conditions.