Theory #4 on why the facial fat pads can get lost in the mid 20s. Estrogen declines dramatically after 23

[Jerryterry129]

Look at this chart. Estrogen literally nose dives at age 23-24

24 is when most people start to lose there fat pads in the face causing outter fat to sag off of inner fat pad

this could explain why eliminating DHT brings back fat pads for some because of the estrogen rise

not only is estrogen crucial for collagen but also bone density and osteoporosis(testosterone has nothing to do with bone density)

I’ve heard of some dudes rubbing some kinda estrogen cream on there face for skin on hairlosstalk and supposedly it doesn’t go systemic. Will have to find what kind it actually is.

I also found some Reddit male doctor who uses some kinda estrogen cream on his face and his says it keeps him lookin yung

 

[Deleted member 11770]

Just inject E theory

 

[Deleted member 12218]

I’ll take wrinkles and a lean face over chronic fat cheeks anyday.

 

[Jerryterry129]

I’ll take wrinkles and a lean face over chronic fat cheeks anyday.

Fat pads =\= fat cheeks

The fat pads in the upper/mid face give a face lift effect and makes you look leaner. Once there gone your face is ganna start sagging and your face won’t look as lean lmao.

Jeremy fragrance is a perfect example. He’s 9% body fat but his sagging fat pads make his face look bloated

 

[Deleted member 14139]

The youth that's conferred from high facial adiposity is extremely low sex appeal. I'm also a big believer that estrogen is important as fuck, but more so due to its role in collagen production and integrity, not facial fat. The facial volume loss in mid 20s is usually superifical fat pads that every male would benefit from losing to improve sex appeal. Superifical fat pads aren't important for the appearance of youth/neoteny for men. How taut your skin is and its resistance against the mass of your own soft tissue is what matters. Most fat old people still look old and their facial sagginess is even worse with fuller faces



The deeper fat pads aren't shrivelled until way down the road. Those are usually very deeply intertwined with collagen based aponeurotic structures, and are usually fat pads in the orbital region that give support to that area. 23 is not even CLOSE to when those fat pads become compromised. The best thing you can do for them is sun protection + retinoids + TRT when you're past 30 years old, the rest is diet + excercise + genetics

 

[Deleted member 14139]

Although I theorize that a major reason why the trope "men age better" exists is due to women hitting a very sharp decline in estrogen levels post menopause. Men never really get LOW estrogen. They get LOWER estrogen due to lower T. Women get EXTREMELY low estrogen. Evident by the fact that the vast majority of osteoporosis patients are elderly women, and they don't improve from vitamin D + calcium supplementation

 

[Jerryterry129]

The youth that's conferred from high facial adiposity is extremely low sex appeal. I'm also a big believer that estrogen is important as fuck, but more so due to its role in collagen production and integrity, not facial fat. The facial volume loss in mid 20s is usually superifical fat pads that every male would benefit from losing to improve sex appeal. Superifical fat pads aren't important for the appearance of youth/neoteny for men. How taut your skin is and its resistance against the mass of your own soft tissue is what matters. Most fat old people still look old and their facial sagginess is even worse with fuller faces



The deeper fat pads aren't shrivelled until way down the road. Those are usually very deeply intertwined with collagen based aponeurotic structures, and are usually fat pads in the orbital region that give support to that area. 23 is not even CLOSE to when those fat pads become compromised. The best thing you can do for them is sun protection + retinoids + TRT when you're past 30 years old, the rest is diet + excercise + genetics

It’s really a combination of both the superficial and deep fat pads. Although you lose like 10-20% more of the deep fat pads. This is why fillers to the upper face work for nasolfolds cause it restores lost volume in the upper and mid face

Jeremy fragrance is literally 7% body fat but his face looks bloated as fuck cause he lost both his fat pads

also obviously being obese will create more folds from the weight of the fat overlapping, but losing both fat pads will have the same effect

 

[Deleted member 14139]

It’s really a combination of both the supergficial and deep fat pads. Although you look like 10-20% more of the deep fat pads. This is why fillers work cause it restores lost volume in the upper and mid face

Jeremy fragrance is literally 7% body fat but his face looks bloated as fuck cause he lost both his face pads

Utter bullshit lmao. The body DOES NOT even draw energy from deep fat pads unless you reach extremely low body fat levels, and I mean lower than 6%. As I said, those are majorly intertwined with aponeurotic connective tissue and collagen matrix. The buccal and submental fat pads for example are considered "storage" fat pads. They can easily shrivel or hypertrophy with weight gain/loss



Your theory is just retarded. There's no evidence there's a significant dip in estrogen, even for females at 23



Fillers look like shit on most elderly women that get them because they lack skin tautness, more so than volume. Their faces coalesce into one round bloated mass that exacerbates the sag. Only deep fat injections + facelifts work

 

[Jerryterry129]

Why do you think Jeremy is always doing those weird face with the pouty lips? It’s cause his face at rest has huge ass folds and teeth throughs and it looks like shit lmao. So he makes that gay face to restore lost volume and it looks ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 14139]

Why do you think Jeremy is always doing those weird face with the pouty lips? It’s cause his face at rest has huge ass folds and teeth throughs and it looks like shit lmao. So he makes that gay face to restore lost volume and it looks ridiculous.

Sounds like autistic physiognomic analysis to me. I've seen many men make that autistic pouty expression, usually just narciness. He's 32, not exactly young, and this retard is carnivore and sunbathes. Hes not even that lean

 

[Jerryterry129]

“

Utter bullshit lmao. The body DOES NOT even draw energy from deep fat pads unless you reach extremely low body fat levels, and I mean lower than 6%. As I said, those are majorly intertwined with aponeurotic connective tissue and collagen matrix. The buccal and submental fat pads for example are considered "storage" fat pads. They can easily shrivel or hypertrophy with weight gain/loss

Okay link me evidence for this?

also there’s only two fat pads in the face

1. superficial

2. deep fat pads

link me evidence a study or anything that shows that only superficial fat pads is what gets lost in the mid 20s and that the deep fat pads are hard to get lost

also it’s not just the deep fat getting lost that causes the face sag.. it’s both the superficial and deep fat pads

I linked that chart that estrogen declines at 23 lmfao. “Just google search when estrogen peaks” although il have to do more research to find a proper study, I’m pretty sure the peak is around 24

 

[TsarTsar444]

Fat pads don't begin dropping at 25 tho? Isn't it at least 30's when it starts getting slowly noticeable

 

[Jerryterry129]

Fat pads don't begin dropping at 25 tho? Isn't it at least 30's when it starts getting slowly noticeable

I mean for some people they do and some people they don’t

Do this, take a look at ur favorite nba player and compare his face at 22 to 26

I did this to some random nba player and his nasolfolds increased dramatically. You could see his fat pads already started shrinking

 

[Deleted member 14139]

“


Okay link me evidence for this?

also there’s only two fat pads in the face

1. superficial

2. deep fat pads

link me evidence a study or anything that shows that only superficial fat pads is what gets lost in the mid 20s and that the deep fat pads are hard to get lost

also it’s not just the deep fat getting lost that causes the face sag.. it’s both the superficial and deep fat pads

I linked that chart that estrogen declines at 23 lmfao. “Just google search when estrogen peaks” although il have to do more research to find a proper study, I’m pretty sure the peak is around 24

god you're such an effecient shit take pumping factory. I love when fucktards like you get all pissy and pedantic about citations for every single claim (regardless of how empirically founded it is, like the well known FACT that older people have worse fat pads) when you've provided soccer mom Facebook blog chart worth of evidence

Age-related changes in elastographically determined strain of the facial fat compartments: a new frontier of research on face aging processes

Our study goal was verification of shear-wave elastography (SWE) as an assessment tool enabling quantitative analysis of facial fat tissue elasticity, using the example of the deep medial cheek fat compartment (DMCFC), due to its major role in pseudoptosis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results​

The DMCFC elasticity correlated inversely with DMCFC thickness (R = –0.292, p < 0.001), age (R = –0.838, p < 0.001) and BMI of the study subjects (R = –0.258, p = 0.001). Age was found to be the only independent determinant of DMCFC elasticity on multiple linear regression analysis (β = –0.837, p < 0.001). The cut-off values for DMCFC elasticity estimated during ROC analysis provided excellent accuracy in distinguishing between women from various age categories, and to a large degree overlapped with the reference intervals defined as ± 2 SD.

The Clinical Importance of the Fat Compartments in Midfacial Aging

The recent identification of the facial fat compartments has greatly affected our understanding of midfacial aging. This article chronicles the discovery of these fat compartments including the shift of attention from a purely gravitational to a volumetric ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Later in a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) study, Gosain et al13 showed a relative descent in position of the cheek fat pad in older faces (>60 y) compared to their younger counterparts (16–30 y). These collective observations led to the adoption of the gravitational theory by many early on.


"The differential behaviors of deep versus superficial fat pads have also been shown in imaging and histologic studies. Gosain’s MRI study of 20 healthy female subjects showed a relative hypertrophy of superficial cheek fat mass in the older group (60–70 y) compared to the younger group (16–30 y).19 On the other hand, Gierloff et al’s7 CT study of 12 cadaveric heads demonstrated a relative deflation of deep cheek fat in older specimens (75–104 y) compared to younger specimens (54–75 y). Recently, a histologic study demonstrated smaller average adipocyte size in the deep cheek compartment compared to the superficial cheek compartment in 63 older cadaveric specimens with the mean age of 71 years.28"

 

[randomvanish]

it's completely genetic. my family looks so youthful until like 55.
i'm 27 and haven't loss anything yet.
unless you're some kind of drug abuser or really saggy shitty fatpads genetically, you don't lose much.
and i was a confirmed low t 4 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 4106]

not only is estrogen crucial for collagen

Men have more collagen than women, and also thicker skin

but also bone density and osteoporosis

Calcium and vitamin D are responsible for this, what does estrogen have to do with it?

(testosterone has nothing to do with bone density)

Testosterone and the Male Skeleton: A Dual Mode of Action

Testosterone is an important hormone for both bone gain and maintenance in men. Hypogonadal men have accelerated bone turnover and increased fracture risk. In these men, administration of testosterone inhibits bone resorption and maintains bone mass. Testosterone, however, is converted into...

www.hindawi.com

Testosterone Treatment and Volumetric Bone Density and Strength

This controlled clinical trial explores whether testosterone treatment of older men with low testosterone improves their bone density and strength.

jamanetwork.com

 

[Deleted member 14139]

Men have more collagen than women, and also thicker skin

Calcium and vitamin D are responsible for this, what does estrogen have to do with it?

Testosterone and the Male Skeleton: A Dual Mode of Action

Testosterone is an important hormone for both bone gain and maintenance in men. Hypogonadal men have accelerated bone turnover and increased fracture risk. In these men, administration of testosterone inhibits bone resorption and maintains bone mass. Testosterone, however, is converted into...

www.hindawi.com

Testosterone Treatment and Volumetric Bone Density and Strength

This controlled clinical trial explores whether testosterone treatment of older men with low testosterone improves their bone density and strength.

jamanetwork.com

OP is definitely retarded but post menopausal women don't respond to calcium and vitamin D supplementation. Estrogen plays a critical role in bone ossification


But yes indeed, testosterone increases bone mass, mainly as a function of higher muscle mass

 

[Phillybeard1996]

How can you tell when your fat pads start dropping?

 

[Jerryterry129]

god you're such an effecient shit take pumping factory. I love when fucktards like you get all pissy and pedantic about citations for every single claim (regardless of how empirically founded it is, like the well known FACT that older people have worse fat pads) when you've provided soccer mom Facebook blog chart worth of evidence

Age-related changes in elastographically determined strain of the facial fat compartments: a new frontier of research on face aging processes

Our study goal was verification of shear-wave elastography (SWE) as an assessment tool enabling quantitative analysis of facial fat tissue elasticity, using the example of the deep medial cheek fat compartment (DMCFC), due to its major role in pseudoptosis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results​

The DMCFC elasticity correlated inversely with DMCFC thickness (R = –0.292, p < 0.001), age (R = –0.838, p < 0.001) and BMI of the study subjects (R = –0.258, p = 0.001). Age was found to be the only independent determinant of DMCFC elasticity on multiple linear regression analysis (β = –0.837, p < 0.001). The cut-off values for DMCFC elasticity estimated during ROC analysis provided excellent accuracy in distinguishing between women from various age categories, and to a large degree overlapped with the reference intervals defined as ± 2 SD.

The Clinical Importance of the Fat Compartments in Midfacial Aging

The recent identification of the facial fat compartments has greatly affected our understanding of midfacial aging. This article chronicles the discovery of these fat compartments including the shift of attention from a purely gravitational to a volumetric ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Later in a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) study, Gosain et al13 showed a relative descent in position of the cheek fat pad in older faces (>60 y) compared to their younger counterparts (16–30 y). These collective observations led to the adoption of the gravitational theory by many early on.


"The differential behaviors of deep versus superficial fat pads have also been shown in imaging and histologic studies. Gosain’s MRI study of 20 healthy female subjects showed a relative hypertrophy of superficial cheek fat mass in the older group (60–70 y) compared to the younger group (16–30 y).19 On the other hand, Gierloff et al’s7 CT study of 12 cadaveric heads demonstrated a relative deflation of deep cheek fat in older specimens (75–104 y) compared to younger specimens (54–75 y). Recently, a histologic study demonstrated smaller average adipocyte size in the deep cheek compartment compared to the superficial cheek compartment in 63 older cadaveric specimens with the mean age of 71 years.28"

75 compared to 50 year olds. Lmfao that says nothing

how about you compare deep fat pads of people aged 32 to people aged 22?

Also of course some 70 year old grandma would probably have inflated superficial fat pads..

These studies are shit cause of the ages. You need to compare a 22 year old to a 33 year old.

you also keep neglicating the importance of superficial fat pads as well. It’s not just deep fat that gets lost with age but also superficial. Although deep fat does get more lost

I can link another study that says superficial AND deep fat were lost with age but I’m sure you already read it.

One last thing, you randomly link something about the fat pads descending due to gravity but that’s controversial. Skip to 5:30 in this video and he explains how the loss of the fat pads causes the remaining fat to sag off of the ligaments, which leads to the sagging fat pads

 

[Deleted member 14139]

75 compared to 50 year olds. Lmfao that says nothing

how about you compare deep fat pads of people aged 32 to people aged 22?

Also of course some 70 year old grandma would probably have inflated superficial fat pads..

These studies are shit cause of the ages. You need to compare a 22 year old to a 33 year old.

you also keep neglicating the importance of superficial fat pads as well. It’s not just deep fat that gets lost with age but also superficial. Although deep fat does get more lost

I can link another study that says superficial AND deep fat were lost with age but I’m sure you already read it.

most people including scientists aren't retarded like you and can visibly tell just by looking at a 22 year old that they don't look as old as a 33 year old

 

[antiantifa]

Look at this chart. Estrogen literally nose dives at age 23-24

24 is when most people start to lose there fat pads in the face causing outter fat to sag off of inner fat pad

this could explain why eliminating DHT brings back fat pads for some because of the estrogen rise

not only is estrogen crucial for collagen but also bone density and osteoporosis(testosterone has nothing to do with bone density)

I’ve heard of some dudes rubbing some kinda estrogen cream on there face for skin on hairlosstalk and supposedly it doesn’t go systemic. Will have to find what kind it actually is.

I also found some Reddit male doctor who uses some kinda estrogen cream on his face and his says it keeps him lookin yung

Retarded thread.

1. Estrogen falls at 30 according to your chart.
2. That's the chart for women, men get their estrogen from testosterone which can be maintained at high levels at least until 50 if you don't become obese.

It does explain why fit men age better than fit women though.

Also if you have good bones fat pads make you look better.

 

[antiantifa]

Men have more collagen than women, and also thicker skin

Calcium and vitamin D are responsible for this, what does estrogen have to do with it?

Testosterone and the Male Skeleton: A Dual Mode of Action

Testosterone is an important hormone for both bone gain and maintenance in men. Hypogonadal men have accelerated bone turnover and increased fracture risk. In these men, administration of testosterone inhibits bone resorption and maintains bone mass. Testosterone, however, is converted into...

www.hindawi.com

Testosterone Treatment and Volumetric Bone Density and Strength

This controlled clinical trial explores whether testosterone treatment of older men with low testosterone improves their bone density and strength.

jamanetwork.com

Because in bone T gets converted to E2, I don't think T directly affects bone.

 

[TsarTsar444]

I mean for some people they do and some people they don’t

Do this, take a look at ur favorite nba player and compare his face at 22 to 26

I did this to some random nba player and his nasolfolds increased dramatically. You could see his fat pads already started shrinking

That isn't fat pads lmao, its collagen, it starts slowly declining after the age of 21

 

[Jerryterry129]

Retarded thread.

1. Estrogen falls at 30 according to your chart

nah ur looking at the collagen line lmao. On the chart it shows estrogen peaks at like 24

 

[antiantifa]

nah ur looking at the collagen line lmao. On the chart it shows estrogen peaks at like 24

Yeah and it barely falls until 30.
And why ignore the point about men? Old men actually have higher E levels than old women.

 

[Effortless]

Fat pads =\= fat cheeks

The fat pads in the upper/mid face give a face lift effect and makes you look leaner.

I'm surprised how many users here don't understand this.

Good fat pads can make your face appear leaner by holding and "stretching" your skin out. Without fad pads your skin will just sag.

 

[oldcelloser]

how over is it for me at 35?

 

[Cristiano88]

Fat pads =\= fat cheeks

The fat pads in the upper/mid face give a face lift effect and makes you look leaner. Once there gone your face is ganna start sagging and your face won’t look as lean lmao.

Jeremy fragrance is a perfect example. He’s 9% body fat but his sagging fat pads make his face look bloated

Jeremy looks very define and chiseled imho.

 

[TitusA]

Also decline massively on a cut and/or run of any strong androgen based steroids (tren being the most known).

 

[Slob]

I want to have 0 fat on my face, I want to have a face that is literally bone shrink wrapped with skin.
I want to kill myself because of my bloated neotenous fat cheeks.

 

[Traxanas]

Because in bone T gets converted to E2, I don't think T directly affects bone.

Aromatization is not the only factor and definitely not the largest one.

Androgens have a direct influence in bone maintenance. There's ARs that exist in bone <- That speaks for itself in which testosterone also binds to, not just DHT.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308576734_A_concise_review_of_testosterone_and_bone_health

Both are important.

(testosterone has nothing to do with bone density)

Kill yourself for spreading misinformation that takes less than 5 seconds to search about

 

[6ft4]

How do I save my fat pads at age 26, they started to fade 2 years ago. I have recessed maxilla so my cheek area looks worse with less fat pads despite cheekbones being sharper
will trt put my estrogen in a good range?