# The Paul "Coceancig Line" is Completely Insane



## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

I've seen many people ask questions about Dr. Paul Coceancig's "Coceancig Line" for jaw surgery.

In his words "A vertical maximal _aesthetic line_ from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.."

Many users have pointed out that this seems excessive, particularly because this is where he advances the bone to, not the soft tissue.

Here this image shows how he is going to advance all three points to the line:







This is an example of a profile that is recessed according to Coceancig's line, I can agree the chin is a bit small but not ugly:






However, if I advance everything as he does: the chin, the nasal spine, the incisor... AT THE BONE, taking into account a layer of soft tissue over the top....

THEN THIS is an approximate result you would get:






This is the reason I refused to spend $90,000 with Coceancig and probably the reason he posts so few of his results online. He just posts the same 10 cases again and again. I told you he had crocodilemaxxed a patient I met.

The Coceancig shills on here who promote his BS need to think twice. He is correct that IMDO is a great procedure for kids. He is wrong with his "line" that no other surgeon subscribes to, because it just ignores soft tissue and goes full monkey which is not aesthetic for most people.

He also used to post on JawSurgeryForums as "OrthodontistExpert", and was banned because he shilled IMDO and talked about how great he was, and they traced the IP to his area. He also lied about other surgeons not being able to do 3D planning in order to rope people in. See Coceancig's comment in purple and a response from another user in white.






The coceancig line should be renamed the _crocodile line_.


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

Tagging some people from my original post where I talked about Coceancig @Zenturio @Rupert Pupkin @one job away @randomvanish @Gaia262 @RealSurgerymax @noprogressno @ScramFranklin @wannalooksmax


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## ifyouwannabemylover (May 1, 2022)

you need super bimax + geniopaully by our based lord coceancig. sooner you accept it the better.


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## Zenturio (May 1, 2022)

Good to know. I will probably go with Ramieri or Pagnoni


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## CristianT (May 1, 2022)

Forward growth is just a meme here. Everyone should know that such extreme advancements on all those 3 points will be a bad result.


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

JFL the posts about Coceancig just get worse and worse. A former ortho who worked with him said only 1 in 10 cases were good and that Coceancig overadvances in case they relapse but they never do, so they look like monkeys:


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## LightSkinNoob (May 1, 2022)

Imagine him giving a boderline case 3cm of advancement 🤣


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> you need super bimax + geniopaully by our based lord coceancig. sooner you accept it the better.


I have PTSD from his car salesman face. So punchable. He also lives in a huge mansion which he showed in the background of some livestreams.


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## ifyouwannabemylover (May 1, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I have PTSD from his car salesman face. So punchable. He also lives in a huge mansion which he showed in the background of some livestreams.


who are the people that he does those streams with? the guy in this sounds like he's some random psl dude from europe:


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## LightSkinNoob (May 1, 2022)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> who are the people that he does those streams with? the guy in this sounds like he's some random psl dude from europe:



Other MaxFacs, thing is sometimes even they get taken aback by the shit he says


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

LightSkinNoob said:


> Other MaxFacs, thing is sometimes even they get taken aback by the shit he says


Yeah I have seen that, especially when Coceancig is laughing at someones face or saying they need multiple surgeries when they look fine. It's the Spanish surgeon who Coceancig teaches.


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

@tesseract are you going to defend your daddy Paul? Or are you Paul?


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## Oberyn (May 1, 2022)

nasal bridge? this mf is insane  I wouldn't go to a penal colony for surgery anyway.


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## NegativeNorwood (May 1, 2022)

What do you think of my skull side profile?





PS: what you are commenting is very interesting and something definitely important and needed to take into account, thanks!


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

NegativeNorwood said:


> What do you think of my skull side profile?
> View attachment 1659640
> 
> 
> PS: what you are commenting is very interesting and something definitely important and needed to take into account, thanks!


I only think skull is fully useful when you have pic of soft tissue as well.


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## randomvanish (May 1, 2022)

@RealSurgerymax @PapiMew @SixCRY


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (May 1, 2022)

valhalar said:


>


holy fucking gigachad


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (May 1, 2022)

I morphed it with good posture and then a better ramus that would fit such forward growth. looks pretty good


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

PURE ARYAN GENETICS said:


> I morphed it with good posture and then a better ramus that would fit such forward growth. looks pretty good
> View attachment 1660906


Hope you’re memeing. He’s leaning over now, still with croc jaw.


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (May 1, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Hope you’re memeing. He’s leaning over now, still with croc jaw.


ur oneitis would beg on her knees for the chance to eat the shit of the guy on the right  anyway point is these results look overkill coz the ramus lags behind hard. doesn't mean it isn't optimal forward growth or close to it  just look my sig, is rosie also too forward grown?  crocodile is the future


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## randomvanish (May 1, 2022)

PURE ARYAN GENETICS said:


> ur oneitis would beg on her knees for the chance to eat the shit of the guy on the right  anyway point is these results look overkill coz the ramus lags behind hard. doesn't mean it isn't optimal forward growth or close to it  just look my sig, is rosie also too forward grown?  crocodile is the future


she did have an insane forward growth


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## heighmaxxerxd (May 2, 2022)

I will talk to him, I might aswell do a Surgeon thread since I talked and met almost all of them


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## valhalar (May 2, 2022)

heighmaxxerxd said:


> I will talk to him, I might aswell do a Surgeon thread since I talked and met almost all of them


If you’re not Australian there is no point cause he charges Arnett-Gunson prices for a subpar result


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## heighmaxxerxd (May 3, 2022)

valhalar said:


> If you’re not Australian there is no point cause he charges Arnett-Gunson prices for a subpar result


I am german, I heard of gunson


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## valhalar (May 3, 2022)

heighmaxxerxd said:


> I am german, I heard of gunson


Just pay for gunson to do plan. Then take it to another surgeon to do similar.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I've seen many people ask questions about Dr. Paul Coceancig's "Coceancig Line" for jaw surgery.
> 
> In his words "A vertical maximal _aesthetic line_ from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.."
> 
> ...


You are retarded the guy is looking down 🤣🤣🤣 also the line he is using is only like 2 mm more forward then what regular surgeons are using


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> You are retarded the guy is looking down 🤣🤣🤣 also the line he is using is only like 2 mm more forward then what regular surgeons are using


No, the line drops down from a 90 degree angle from the Frankfurt plane. That’s how you account for head rotation. So seems you’re the retard who cannot read.

And just lol if you think the difference between the radix and the end of the nasal bone is 2mm. It’s often 5-8mm depending on the individual.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> No, the line drops down from a 90 degree angle from the Frankfurt plane. That’s how you account for head rotation. So seems you’re the retard who cannot read.
> 
> And just lol if you think the difference between the radix and the end of the nasal bone is 2mm. It’s often 5-8mm depending on the individual.


Imagining reaching this conclusion





thinking you did the measurement correctly 

what a monkeybrain


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## Zenturio (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> Imagining reaching this conclusion
> View attachment 1669404
> 
> 
> ...


can you elaborate what you mean


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> can you elaborate what you mean


Look at any of his results lol. The guys who reach the Coceancig drop line all look normal after.


According to the dudes in this thread this guy should look ridiculously overdone 






when in reality





he is not overdone at all whatsoever. None of his patients look overdone, at least the ones he shows on his IG page and it is not like he is showing a very small sample of patients either.


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## Zenturio (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> Look at any of his results lol. The guys who reach the Coceancig drop line all look normal after.
> 
> 
> According to the dudes in this thread this guy should look ridiculously overdone
> ...


only his chin was advanced to the line tho. His ANS is way behind the line


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> only his chin was advanced to the line tho. His ANS is way behind the line


Yeah you are right it's impossible to get all three points to the line all the time though. Some people's ANS is just too far back. Also he specifically doesn't do leforts above 10 mms or so because it's unstable. His midface looks like it's not ideally forward though.


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## Zenturio (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> Yeah you are right it's impossible to get all three points to the line all the time though. Some people's ANS is just too far back. Also he specifically doesn't do leforts above 10 mms or so because it's unstable. His midface looks like it's not ideally forward though.


are you knowledgable on trimax stuff and osteotomies?


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> are you knowledgable on trimax stuff and osteotomies?


Probably not more than other PSLers but I have seen quite a few of Coceancig's videos and results to know he is not some crazy doctor making people look totally overdone.

It's not like all three points have to absolutely be on the line, he just says that is the ideal he thinks should be. He also claimed people do not look overdone if they don't go beyond the line and that he has never seen people who naturally reached the line who ever had snoring issues while it wasn't the case for the ones who didn't reach it. Btw he doesn't even try to bring women's chins on the line he does them 5mm less in order to look more feminine.









I have yet to see an overdone case by him.


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## Zenturio (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> Probably not more than other PSLers but I have seen quite a few of Coceancig's videos and results to know he is not some crazy doctor making people look totally overdone.
> 
> It's not like all three points have to absolutely be on the line, he just says that is the ideal he thinks should be. He also claimed people do not look overdone if they don't go beyond the line and that he has never seen people who naturally reached the line who ever had snoring issues while it wasn't the case for the ones who didn't reach it. Btw he doesn't even try to bring women's chins on the line he does them 5mm less in order to look more feminine.
> View attachment 1669459
> ...


can I dm you my pics and scans?


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> can I dm you my pics and scans?


sure


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> Look at any of his results lol. The guys who reach the Coceancig drop line all look normal after.
> 
> 
> According to the dudes in this thread this guy should look ridiculously overdone
> ...


Get fucked. His former fucking colleague who developed IMDO with him said only 1 out of 10 cases look good, and parted ways with him specifically because he overadvances.

He is not bringing the jaws an extra 2mm forward than other surgeons, because he is actually bringing the bone through to that point, whereas most surgeons including Gunson do it by soft tissue (and at the radix or forehead): the difference is massive. 

You are free to post one of his good result if you want. But that does not mean that Coceancig always achieves that. The fact he has so few suggests to me they usually are crocodile maxed. 

As for you trying to say I put the line on the wrong place, you’re still wrong. You get the line accounting for head rotation by drawing it intersecting the Frankfurt plane, which is from his own fucking book. JFL.


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> I have yet to see an overdone case by him.


Just because he doesn’t fucking post many cases doesn’t mean he’s a good surgeon. As noted on JSF most of his cases look shit. I know because I met one. 

Even many of his posted results also often look unnatural and uncanny IMO.

Gtfo you Coceancig shill. He’s not even a remarkable surgeon, he just spends a shit tonne on marketing and changes 2 to 5 times the market rate.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Get fucked. His former fucking colleague who developed IMDO with him said only 1 out of 10 cases look good, and parted ways with him specifically because he overadvances.
> 
> He is not bringing the jaws an extra 2mm forward than other surgeons, because he is actually bringing the bone through to that point, whereas most surgeons including Gunson do it by soft tissue (and at the radix or forehead): the difference is massive.
> 
> ...


>his former college 
>some random guy on a forum

just like the post about Coceancig trolling the forum and as proof you post some guy accusing some other guy of being Coceancig 

The forum is full of weirdos Sergio actually got attacked there for respectfully explaining IMDO and the guys told him that it is a bs scam surgery which doesn't even work.


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> thinking you did the measurement correctly
> 
> what a monkeybrain


You’re the monkey brain: the line is literally defined as:


> A vertical maximal _aesthetic line_ from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.


Since you do not know where the Frankfurt plane comes from you sound like an absolute clown. The fact you think I drew the line wrong is simply evidence that his like is completely insane. It is.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Just because he doesn’t fucking post many cases doesn’t mean he’s a good surgeon. As noted on JSF most of his cases look shit. I know because I met one.
> 
> Even many of his posted results also often look unnatural and uncanny IMO.
> 
> Gtfo you Coceancig shill. He’s not even a remarkable surgeon, he just spends a shit tonne on marketing and changes 2 to 5 times the market rate.


He has a lot of before afters. I'd say more than most surgeons. He has got like 30 different cases on his IG.


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> >his former college
> >some random guy on a forum
> 
> just like the post about Coceancig trolling the forum and as proof you post some guy accusing some other guy of being Coceancig
> ...


Sergio cannot even do it on adults which he admitted, so he is a clown trying to get people to consult with him and sell them a subpar bimax. There is a reason no one recommends him here.


spark said:


> He has a lot of before afters. I'd say more than most surgeons. He has got like 30 different cases on his IG


Most of his cases were child IMDO cases. You sound like a shill.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> You’re the monkey brain: the line is literally defined as:
> 
> Since you do not know where the Frankfurt plane comes from you sound like an absolute clown. The fact you think I drew the line wrong is simply evidence that his like is completely insane. It is.


You must be a legit idiot if you think these are the faces Coceancig comes out with





Also gj trying to figure out the infraorbital margin and connecting it to the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus from a photo like this.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Sergio cannot even do it on adults which he admitted, so he is a clown trying to get people to consult with him and sell them a subpar bimax. There is a reason no one recommends him here.
> 
> Most of his cases were child IMDO cases. You sound like a shill.


Well he does like 5 different operations of course not all of them are gonna be exactly the one you are looking for. As if every surgeon had hundreds of before afters on their IG or their website. They don't.


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> just like the post about Coceancig trolling the forum and as proof you post some guy accusing some other guy of being Coceancig


Oh so it’s all a conspiracy. Even though other people were warned about Coceancig by the doctors doing their ceph scans?



spark said:


> You must be a legit idiot if you think these are the faces Coceancig comes out with
> View attachment 1670168
> 
> 
> Also gj trying to figure out the infraorbital margin and connecting it to the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus from a photo like this.


Given I met one I think I’m a better judge of that. The thing is a dude like that would NOT even go to a jaw surgeon, yet according to Coceancig the ideal should be at the line. There is only so much I could do with a morph on that face that’s why I said approximately.

The line is drawn from the ear canal to the nasal bridge so you’re still wrong.

The Coceancig line does not take into account the rest of the phenotype. It is based on a ridiculous belief that one’s face should be an anteface, which is brutish and low class. There is a reason most top surgeons including Arnett-Gunson do advancement at the soft tissue.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Oh so it’s all a conspiracy. Even though other people were warned about Coceancig by the doctors doing their ceph scans?


What is a conspiracy? Anybody can write anything on the net. The jawsurgery forums is full of bitter weirdos hating on surgeons. They won't even let you register on their shitty forum without sending them money.



valhalar said:


> Given I met one I think I’m a better judge of that. The thing is a dude like that would NOT even go to a jaw surgeon, yet according to Coceancig the ideal should be at the line. There is only so much I could do with a morph on that face that’s why I said approximately.


You met whom? An overdone patient victim of Coceancig? OK! 


valhalar said:


> The line is drawn from the ear canal to the nasal bridge so you’re still wrong.


Yeah duh you didn't even draw a Frankfurt plane genius. You can't even properly do it without an xray.



valhalar said:


> The Coceancig line does not take into account the rest of the phenotype. It is based on a ridiculous belief that one’s face should be an anteface, which is brutish and low class. There is a reason most top surgeons including Arnett-Gunson work with soft tissue.


It's a rule of thumb he doesn't fetishize it. It's not like all of these several points have to meet the line at all costs.


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> You met whom? An overdone patient victim of Coceancig? OK!


I had a consult with Coceancig and he had a patient downstairs in the dental chair who he said I could go and talk to. The result put me off entirely.



spark said:


> Yeah duh you didn't even draw a Frankfurt plane genius. You can't even properly do it without an xray.


A safe bet is to draw it from the ear canal, and even if I had a ceph it’s not gonna be a huge difference. I can see the line heads through the orbital, in fact its properly slightly TOO high in which case he would need even more advancement. 🤣

Your other arguments are childish/low IQ ramblings. If Coceancig is so great, I welcome you to have surgery with him.

The issue is he proposes completely insane movements for people who already look good. He cuts the jaw into a bunch of puzzle pieces which will usually result in permanent nerve damage (which many reviews talk about) and he gives zero warning of this. If you’re going to prioritise a brutish jaw over nerve function, you should warn your patients properly.

I DM’d Ramieri to ask about a Coceancig plan another user sent me and he was uncomfortable with it and said it was too much. Coceancig proposes 20mm advancement whereas Ramieri said something like 5-7mm would be most harmonious with the face.

I’ve always said people can go to Dr C if if they want. I just think he sucks, acts like a used car salesman and is money hungry and probably sociopathic. It’s funny to listen to him rant about how ugly people are and say they need surgeries, but when you are actually the patient that is a huge red flag.


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## spark (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Your other arguments are childish/low IQ ramblings. If Coceancig is so great, I welcome you to have surgery with him.


>low IQ ramblings
>while unironically posting this 








valhalar said:


> The issue is he proposes completely insane movements for people who already look good. He cuts the jaw into a bunch of puzzle pieces which will usually result in permanent nerve damage (which many reviews talk about) and he gives zero warning of this. If you’re going to prioritise a brutish jaw over nerve function, you should warn your patients properly.


I remember reading one review mentioning nerve damage but it doesn't seem very common. Also the movements aren't really that insane he doesn't really go beyond 10mm with either le fort or bsso.



valhalar said:


> I DM’d Ramieri to ask about a Coceancig plan another user sent me and he was uncomfortable with it and said it was too much. Coceancig proposes 20mm advancement whereas Ramieri said something like 5-7mm would be most harmonious with the face.


You made that up. Coceancig only does advancements a few mm larger than your average bluepilled surgeon. I have purposefully just looked up Ramieri's patient and he pretty much does the same movements:




the patient was a female and Coceancig goes 5 mm off the line with the chin of women so the type of advancement is pretty much the same Coceancig would do and you are claiming Coceancig advances 10+ mm more than even Ramieri and then showing your painting with your "Frankfurt line"  


valhalar said:


> I’ve always said people can go to Dr C if if they want. I just think he sucks, acts like a used car salesman and is money hungry and probably sociopathic. It’s funny to listen to him rant about how ugly people are and say they need surgeries, but when you are actually the patient that is a huge red flag.


Sure no need to make up crazy shit about him though.


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## valhalar (May 7, 2022)

spark said:


> >low IQ ramblings
> >while unironically posting this
> View attachment 1670177
> 
> ...


Jesus Christ you’re so stupid and this is getting painful. 20mm advancement means 20mm total advancement at the chin. Just stop talking dude. 

You’re obviously insecure because you’re probably going to him. Enjoy your nerve damage lmfao.


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## AscendingHero (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I've seen many people ask questions about Dr. Paul Coceancig's "Coceancig Line" for jaw surgery.
> 
> In his words "A vertical maximal _aesthetic line_ from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.."
> 
> ...


Intriguing and interesting thread

@alienmaxxer & @tesseract 

*Thoughts?*


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## bulgogi (May 7, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Jesus Christ you’re so stupid and this is getting painful. 20mm advancement means 20mm total advancement at the chin. Just stop talking dude.
> 
> You’re obviously insecure because you’re probably going to him. Enjoy your nerve damage lmfao.


Chances are you aren't really interested in answering the questions of random people on the internet but on the offchance that you might be willing to, could you dm me your discord if you have one? I just have a few brief questions to ask regarding surgeon recommendations.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Jesus Christ you’re so stupid and this is getting painful. 20mm advancement means 20mm total advancement at the chin. Just stop talking dude.
> 
> You’re obviously insecure because you’re probably going to him. Enjoy your nerve damage lmfao.


Are you purposefully misunderstanding or just completely illiterate? 🤣🤣


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## Boldandbeautiful (May 8, 2022)

Coceancig was blackpill before the forum existed, Ramieri got blackpilled after a few hundred autistic consults, the guy only learned how to do implants after Gaia, so I would think they cater to different customers.

Ramieri going for harmony and an 'improvement' and Conceancig rolling the dice and creating a new face.


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## RealSurgerymax (May 8, 2022)

PURE ARYAN GENETICS said:


> I morphed it with good posture and then a better ramus that would fit such forward growth. looks pretty good
> View attachment 1660906


Add nasion projection too


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Boldandbeautiful said:


> Coceancig was blackpill before the forum existed, Ramieri got blackpilled after a few hundred autistic consults, the guy only learned how to do implants after Gaia, so I would think they cater to different customers.
> 
> Ramieri going for harmony and an 'improvement' and Conceancig rolling the dice and creating a new face.


Coceancig is stupid. He once said in a video that men probably have strong jawlines because of “playing football and clenching their jaws” and the other surgeon interrupted him and correctly said it was genetics and bone structure.


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## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Add nasion projection too


so what do you think about coceancig line? is it overkill?


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Add nasion projection too


Adding nasion projection doesn't change the fact that user tilted it far beyond 'good posture'. The line from ear, through the infra to the nasal bone is already the Frankfurt plane indicating horizontal head position. The only thing good posture would due is straighten up the neck, not alter the angle his face is at.

If you have to be looking down 24/7 for the result to look normal then lol.

Can people here just acknowledge that the dude does not need surgery and is already good looking despite not meeting measurements conjured up by maxillofacial surgeons.


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

More examples of the Coceancig line.

Apparently Sean O'Pry is recessed and not ideal, yet he's one of the top male models of all time:







Apparently Henry Cavill is recessed, yet he played superman:






Apparently Nick Truelove is recessed, his incisor and nasal base do not meet the line! Yet he's a model...






Anyone who tries to defend this line as some objective measure of beauty is clowning themselves and others. This is just the line conjured up by one baldcel from Australia.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Coceancig is stupid. He once said in a video that men probably have strong jawlines because of “playing football and clenching their jaws” and the other surgeon interrupted him and correctly said it was genetics and bone structure.


When did he say that? Coceancig always says everything is genetics to a point when even I don't agree with him. He straight up claims modern malocclusion has nothing or very little to do with environment and it's all genetics. Are you again making up stuff?


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> When did he say that? Coceancig always says everything is genetics to a point when even I don't agree with him. He straight up claims modern malocclusion has nothing or very little to do with environment and it's all genetics. Are you again making up stuff?


Lol he literally claims here that big masseters are from eating a lot of corn, clenching and playing football, and the other surgeon says its genetics and he disagrees:



Your continued claims that I am lying or making stuff up are cringe when you're the one who has failed to provide any evidence for your arguments.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> More examples of the Coceancig line.
> 
> Apparently Sean O'Pry is recessed and not ideal, yet he's one of the top male models of all time:
> 
> ...


Nice "Frankfurt line". 

I guess you still haven't realized the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus is quite a bit higher than the point you are using right?






You are legit mentally ill or just mentally retarded. Still not sure which one are you.


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Nice "Frankfurt line".
> 
> I guess you still haven't realized the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus is quite a bit higher than the point you are using right?
> 
> ...


You realise Coceancig does his Frankfurt line through the infraorbital rim and the end of the nasal bridge. You clearly admit this yourself when you tried to say you cannot draw a Frankfurt plane from the ear without a ceph scan JFL. You think you're owning but you're owning yourself.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Lol he literally claims here that big masseters are from eating a lot of corn, clenching and playing football, and the other surgeon says its genetics and he disagrees:
> 
> 
> 
> Your continued claims that I am lying or making stuff up are cringe when you're the one who has failed to provide any evidence for your arguments.



He didn't say the jawline is due to chewing.  He made a joke about a guy he knew who would religiously chew in order to grow his masseter muscles.  How retarded are you to not even understand spoken language? I hope you are not a native English speaker or else you are legit sub90 IQ.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

More examples of how the Frankfurt plane can be drawn from the ear canal: https://www.richardzoumalan.com/rhinopedia/frankfurt-horizontal-plane/



https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Head-alignment-according-to-the-Frankfurt-plane_fig9_317304476



I have seen Coceancig do it because it better aligns with the end of the nasal bone. It depends on the person.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> He didn't say the jawline is due to chewing.  He made a joke about a guy he knew who would religiously chew in order to grow his masseter muscles.  How retarded are you to not even understand spoken language? I hope you are not a native English speaker or else you are legit sub90 IQ.
> View attachment 1670611


You are autistic.


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Nice "Frankfurt line".
> 
> I guess you still haven't realized the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus is quite a bit higher than the point you are using right?
> 
> ...


dude, please redraw the exact coceancig line on this photos he shared then. you all are confusing me


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> You realise Coceancig does his Frankfurt line *parallel* and below a Frankfurt line through the meatus? He goes through the infraorbital rim and the end of the nasal bridge. You clearly admit this yourself when you tried to say you cannot draw a Frankfurt plane from the ear without a ceph scan JFL. You think you're owning but you're owning yourself.


What are you even talking about you absolute imbecile? 

This is a Frankfurt line:





To orient the skull around it you simply rotate as he did:





He is literally using these two points:





Completely different from your so called line 

fcking retard


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> dude, please redraw the exact coceancig line on this photos he shared then. you all are confusing me



#67


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> #67


so it actually the red line? if so, he's still a bit recessed according to coceancig, right ?


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> so it actually the red line? if so, he's still a bit recessed according to coceancig, right ?
> 
> View attachment 1670628


No?Y You made the line go through his eyeball lmao


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> please redraw the exact coceancig line on this photos he shared then. you all are confusing me


He won't. The Frankfurt plane is through the infraorbital rim. I'll adjust mine to be more precise though.



spark said:


> Completely different from your so called line


Coceancig does the line at a 90 deg angle against the Frankfurt plane, dropping from the end of the nasal bridge. It did mean my lines were slightly off.






Here I adjusted them to be more precise, and guess what? These men are recessed according to Coceancig


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> No?Y You made the line go through his eyeball lmao
> View attachment 1670631


but he's still recessed even if I go down to that point you made?


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Coceancig would say that Nick Truelove needs his nasal bridge, incisor and chin advanced to the line _at the bone_.

Here I have done just that. Nick Truelove goes from being a famous model to being a monkey.

@spark is another coceancig shill not to be trusted.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> He won't. The Frankfurt plane is through the infraorbital rim. I'll adjust mine to be more precise though.
> 
> 
> Coceancig does the line at a 90 deg angle against the Frankfurt plane, dropping from the end of the nasal bridge. It did mean my lines were slightly off.
> ...


Nice "adjustment" dumbass. Do you even know the nose bone ends?


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Nice "adjustment" dumbass. Do you even know the nose bone ends?


dude explain in detail then. I'm hungry for knowledge on BIMAX


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Nice "adjustment" dumbass. Do you even know the nose bone ends?


I put the end of the nasal bone at the *edge* of the line, e.g. here. I didn't draw the line ON the end because you want to see where the bones are meant to be advanced to (i.e. the edge of the line) down the face. You keep coping in your defence of Coceancig and it's so cringe to watch.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

This autist is seriously complaining because he cannot work out how to look to the edge of a line.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Btw the end of the nasal bone actually varies from person to person, and this dude seems to want me to take it FURTHER meaning that these mean would be even MORE recessed. Clearly we are conversing with a stupid person.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> dude explain in detail then. I'm hungry for knowledge on BIMAX


What is there to explain? You guys paint the line in the middle of the nose when roughly the last two thirds of the nose is no longer bone but cartilage. 

This guy reached the line with his chin





and is he overdone? Nope





I am 100% sure all of the other surgeons praised on this site do similar movements to Coceancig maybe 1 or 2 mm less unless the patient is super recessed and since none of them do IMDO they can't combine both IMDO and BSSO.

Even the bluepilled retard surgeons who don't care about aesthetics one bit won't do that much less maybe 5 mm max.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> dude explain in detail then. I'm hungry for knowledge on BIMAX


I put it in the correct place, give or take 1mm (you can only guess on some noses). This dude is either trolling or just stupid. The nasal bone is on different places in each person, and usually where I put it.


spark said:


> What is there to explain? You guys paint the line in the middle of the nose when roughly the last two thirds of the nose is no longer bone but cartilage.


Holy shit this explains why you are so stupid. The Frankfurt plane is not showing where the fucking line drops. Look at the vertical line, the edge closest to the eye. It *drops* *from the nasal bridge*, not the fucking middle of the nose.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Btw the end of the nasal bone actually varies from person to person, and this dude seems to want me to take it FURTHER meaning that these mean would be even MORE recessed. Clearly we are conversing with a stupid person.


No retard did you even see the gif? The nosebone ends at the start of the nose not half way through.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> The nosebone ends at the start of the nose not half way through


You are fucking stupid. Look at where the vertical line actually drops from. Ignore the Frankfurt plane line.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> The nosebone ends at the start of the nose not half way through


Since you are apparently too stupid to actually look at the vertical line, I made it clearer for you by not intersecting the Frankfurt plane with the line dropping from the bridge.






And Henry Cavill is recessed according to Coceancig line. It's the exact same line I drew before. The line was never dropping from the middle of the bone because the Frankfurt plane is passing through the nose. The line runs 90 degrees AGAINST the Frankfurt plane. It DROPS from the nasal bone.

You have just revealed yourself to be a complete fucking idiot.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Since you are apparently too stupid to actually look at the vertical line, I made it clearer for you by not intersecting the Frankfurt plane with the line dropping from the bridge.
> 
> View attachment 1670645
> 
> ...


What is this idiotic attempt at a strawman? Are you trying to claim that I am saying something completely different? 

The nosebone is obviously slightly higher even with Cavill. With O'Pry you made it at like 60% of the nose 

What a braindead automaton non sentient animal you are. That was the lowest IQ strawman I have seen here so far.


----------



## LightSkinNoob (May 8, 2022)

This is becoming like that one thread from bodybuilding.com


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> The nosebone is obviously slightly higher even with Cavill


Let's assume it is then

anddddd Cavill would still be "recessed"


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

LightSkinNoob said:


> This is becoming like that one thread from bodybuilding.com


It's still irrelevant you can't properly judge the line from a candid photo anyways. As I have shown Ramieri does virtually the same movements. This whole conversation is basically OP digging a massive hole for himself sperging out like the moronic autist he is.


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> It's still irrelevant you can't properly judge the line from a candid photo anyways. As I have shown Ramieri does virtually the same movements. This whole conversation is basically OP digging a massive hole for himself sperging out like the moronic autist he is.


DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT 
DRAW IT


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> It's still irrelevant you can't properly judge the line from a candid photo anyways. As I have shown Ramieri does virtually the same movements. This whole conversation is basically OP digging a massive hole for himself sperging out like the moronic autist he is.


DRAW THEM ALL AND CORRECT IT ALREADY INSTEAD OF INSULTING


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

@spark


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Let's assume it is then
> 
> anddddd Cavill would still be "recessed"
> 
> View attachment 1670649


Just because he is a celebrity doesn't mean he isn't recessed at all, most people are. 





The lines drawn are obviously wrong though. It's impossible to correctly assess it from candids.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> It's still irrelevant you can't properly judge the line from a candid photo anyways. As I have shown Ramieri does virtually the same movements. This whole conversation is basically OP digging a massive hole for himself sperging out like the moronic autist he is.


As someone who consulted with Coceancig and spoke with Ramieri, that is complete bullshit. You have no argument here so you just revert to the lie that Ramieri follows the same guidelines.


spark said:


> Just because he is a celebrity doesn't mean he isn't recessed at all, most people are


Actually, Cavill shows that "forward growth" to Coceancig's standards are just a meme. It's not superior. He would look like a monkey. If anyone is autistic it is you subscribing to some rigid standard of forward growth that no other surgeons take seriously. 

Coceancig literally developed this framework because he believed patients would relapse, but they do not.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> DRAW IT
> DRAW IT
> DRAW IT
> DRAW IT
> ...


Lay down, don't jut, snap a side profile pic, turn it 90 degrees and then you might have a good starting point if you don't have an xray or a ct. You can't do a ceph analysis from a candid photo.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> The lines drawn are obviously wrong though


You're complaining about candid photos now, but that isn't even a side profile, you can see the front of his nasal bones lol. You're getting desperate.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> As someone who consulted with Coceancig and spoke with Ramieri, that is complete bullshit. You have no argument here so you just revert to the lie that Ramieri follows the same guidelines.
> 
> Actually, Cavill shows that "forward growth" to Coceancig's standards are just a meme. It's not superior. He would look like a monkey. If anyone is autistic it is you subscribing to some rigid standard of forward growth that no other surgeons take seriously.
> 
> Coceancig literally developed this framework because he believed patients would relapse, but they do not.


Ramieri's vs Coceancig's female patient result





the final result is near identical, Coceancig's patient's mandible is maybe a mm or two more.

sorry to burst your bubble dumbass


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> female


FEMALE. The Coceancig line he applies to males. Holy crap you are also completely stupid because you are not taking individual phenotype into account. Some people that alignment works for because of their nasal bones. For many it simply does not. Forward growth actually works better on women.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Here is another example of David Candy, the top male model of all time:






According to the Coceancig line he should be advanced something like this. Remember the BONE goes to the line with soft tissue over top:


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Here is another example of David Candy, the top male model of all time:
> 
> View attachment 1670660
> 
> ...


looks better


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> FEMALE. The Coceancig line he applies to males. Holy crap you are also completely stupid because you are not taking individual phenotype into account. Some people that alignment works for because of their nasal bones. For many it simply does not. Forward growth actually works better on women.


The only difference between males and females is that Coceancig does 5mm less in woman's lower third, that's it.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Ramieri vs Coceancig












Final result in terms of the relation to the dropline is max ~2mm difference. In terms of aesthetics it's pretty clear I think.

@ifyouwannabemylover 
@randomvanish


----------



## Zenturio (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Ramieri's vs Coceancig's female patient result
> View attachment 1670655
> 
> 
> ...


In the scan with Ramieri the head of the female is tilted upwards tho. For clarification it would help to also draw the frankfurt plane into both pictures.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> looks better


My favourite shit poster.

but really imagine how destroyed the front of Gandy's face would become if Coceancig did surgery on this:







He would go from a 9 to chimp


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Final result in terms of the relation to the dropline is max ~2mm difference. In terms of aesthetics it's pretty clear I think.


Lol as @Zenturio pointed out it is tilted. These female cases are completely fucking irrelevant. Ramieri does not follow the Coceancig line at all, he focuses on soft tissue as the end result. He even shows this in his planning videos.


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> My favourite shit poster.
> 
> but really imagine how destroyed the front of Gandy's face would become if Coceancig did surgery on this:
> 
> ...


do it with this one


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> In the scan with Ramieri the head of the female is tilted upwards tho. For clarification it would help to also draw the frankfurt plane into both pictures.


Yeah you might be right here that Ramieri hasn't oriented the scan according to the Frankfurt plane. The result is also underwhelming btw.





Ramieri specifically said she came to him because she wanted a bigger chin. No genio was done. an underwhelming result for sure.

That compared to Coceancig's "overdone" patient:


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Yeah you might be right here that Ramieri hasn't oriented the scan according to the Frankfurt plane. The result is also underwhelming btw.
> View attachment 1670673
> 
> 
> ...


why you are not willing to draw it and prove him wrong? laziness that much?


----------



## Zenturio (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Yeah you might be right here that Ramieri hasn't oriented the scan according to the Frankfurt plane. The result is also underwhelming btw.
> View attachment 1670673
> 
> 
> ...


admittedly coceancigs results looks way better but its hard to tell what had the most impact on this difference. Was it the movements or did the second patient simply have a better base?


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> do it with this one



Leto's Coceancig© crocodilization© SUPERBIMAX© is complete:


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Leto's Coceancig© crocodilization© SUPERBIMAX© is complete:
> 
> View attachment 1670679


@thecel you gonna love this bro


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> admittedly coceancigs results looks way better but its hard to tell what had the most impact on this difference. Was it the movements or did the second patient simply have a better base?


This explains why:

_"only 1 in 10 of his results are good" or when I expressed fear about overcorrection by advancing the jaws too much "the only surgeon I know that overcorrects is Coceancig in the hopes that the patients will relapse, I told him no don't do this but the patients didn't end up relapsing & that's why I stopped working with him". Now he doesn't want to work with Coceancig anymore so much that I was almost refused treatment by my ortho since he thought I wanted surgery with Coceancig!"_


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Leto's Coceancig© crocodilization© SUPERBIMAX© is complete:
> 
> View attachment 1670679


quite close though


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Alignment with Coceancig line can work for some phenotypes (RARE), especially those with flat faces. I think this is because the movement is less drastic. For people with prominent features or already half decent faces etc, it can look comical. I think the focus should be on soft tissue, and there should not be a "rule" applied to all faces. That is why Coceancig is known for over advancing and why he crocodile maxes some people.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Btw if Leto actually got aligned with the Coceancig line there is good reason to believe it would ruin an already harmonious face from the front


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Alignment with Coceancig line can work for some phenotypes, especially those with flat faces. I think this is because the movement is less drastic. For people with prominent features or already half decent faces etc, it can look comical. I think the focus should be on soft tissue, and there should not be a "rule" applied to all faces. That is why Coceancig is known for over advancing and why he crocodile maxes some people.


reading the thread like this


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> reading the thread like this


lmao, what I mean is for some rare cases the line actually aligns with a harmonious soft tissue result. But usually it does not, and I think it looks chimp. It is also quite drastic for a lot of cases and will result in nerve damage (very common with big movements). 

If you look at Alfaro's work, 90% of his male cases do not go as far as the Coceancig line.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> admittedly coceancigs results looks way better but its hard to tell what had the most impact on this difference. Was it the movements or did the second patient simply have a better base?


Ramieri fixed her asymmetry in the lefort that's nice. He did not do genio despite her complaining about her chin above all. I think he moved her mandible like 10mm. I am not sure how much forward movement she got but including the genio I think it's gonna be around 30 mm in the lower third.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Ramieri's vs Coceancig's female patient result
> View attachment 1670655
> 
> 
> ...


I just exposed you again @spark

Ramieri's advancement looks nothing like Coceancig's. The difference is huge. Ramieri does not use the Coceancig line.






@Zenturio was correct. Maybe I can say "sorry to burst your bubble dumbass" after you were so confident.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> lmao, what I mean is for some rare cases the line actually aligns with a harmonious soft tissue result. But usually it does not, and I think it looks chimp. It is also quite drastic for a lot of cases and will result in nerve damage (very common with big movements).
> 
> If you look at Alfaro's work, 90% of his male cases do not go as far as the Coceancig line.


Alfaro's case, incisors are what like 1.5 mm off the line? The chin is like 3 mm








Yeah he'd probably look better had he been moved forward by those few mm more.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Alfaro's case, incisors are what like 1.5 mm off the line? The chin is like 3 mm


No, just no. Coceancig advances the BONE to the line. The soft tissue over chin bone is incredibly thick. Coceancig's soft tissue result at the chin would be a lot further forward.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> No, just no. Coceancig advances the BONE to the line. The soft tissue over chin bone is incredibly thick. Coceancig's soft tissue result at the chin would be a lot further forward.


Yeah the bone is a few mm off the line I even drew the line...


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Yeah the bone is a few mm off the line I even drew the line...













Alfaro did a natural nice result by lining up the soft tissue with the radix/forehead. Cocecancig line is monkey face.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I just exposed you again @spark
> 
> Ramieri's advancement looks nothing like Coceancig's. The difference is huge. Ramieri does not use the Coceancig line.
> 
> ...


Still waiting for @spark to comment on this.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> View attachment 1670704
> 
> 
> View attachment 1670705
> ...


He looks better in the morph though.  Those extra few mm would do him wonders.


----------



## thecel (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Here is another example of David Candy, the top male model of all time:
> 
> View attachment 1670660
> 
> ...








mogs


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Disagree, but whatever. I think this forum is too obsessed with forward growth. It's a meme. Most men women find attractive are behind the Coceancig line.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Still waiting for @spark to comment on this.


I already commented on the fact I didn't notice the fact the surgeon didn't rotate it to the Frankfurt line which you didn't even know what it was before I told you.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> I already commented on the fact I didn't notice the fact the surgeon didn't rotate it to the Frankfurt line which you didn't even know what it was before I told you.


You wish. I think it's lol you tried to claim Ramieri uses the line. You're clowning bro with your shitty advice and gay emojis.


----------



## Zenturio (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> He looks better in the morph though.  Those extra few mm would do him wonders.


Agree. I think it really depends if the nasal base can be infront of the nasion. In some people that looks dogmaxxed but in others it clearly moggs. Probably comes down to the individual case. Thats why the most important thing is a surgeon who focuses on aesthetics and has a lot of experience


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> Agree. I think it really depends if the nasal base can be infront of the nasion. In some people that looks dogmaxxed but in others it clearly moggs. Probably comes down to the individual case. Thats why the most important thing is a surgeon who focuses on aesthetics and has a lot of experience





spark said:


> He looks better in the morph though.  Those extra few mm would do him wonders.


I think it's also important to remember that extreme movements like those Coceancig employs are associated with ever increasing risk of nerve damage. Especially when he cuts the jaws into 8 different pieces and moves them around. Then when you end up with nerve damage he just responds "you look great, I cleaned the apartment and you're complaining about a sock on the floor" (that's in multiple reviews). Just lol, some patients have complained they can't eat properly now.


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

@RealSurgerymax @SixCRY @facemaxxed @TheLordMadness @Gaia262 @PapiMew @Elias @Mongrelcel @Rupert Pupkin @Aesthetics_III @Looksmax25 @CosmicMaxxer


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

Also serious question, does anyone know why Coceancig charges $3000 AUD for a cone beam scan that other surgeons offer for $150 AUD? Having met him, I think it's just because he's a money hungry used car salesman. 

Is his scan really doing anything special, cause the one I got shows all the same soft tissue etc.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> Agree. I think it really depends if the nasal base can be infront of the nasion. In some people that looks dogmaxxed but in others it clearly moggs. Probably comes down to the individual case. Thats why the most important thing is a surgeon who focuses on aesthetics and has a lot of experience


It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.




















I mean how am I supposed to take the word of some angry bitter anon on jawsurgery forum (the same forum which attacked @Sergio-OMS after he started posting there) over actual results?


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.
> View attachment 1670708
> View attachment 1670709
> View attachment 1670710
> ...


I want to ascend like this girl so bad 







oh dear merciful god please let me ascend at least like this girl, make my miserable life into the heaven-like feelings, amen.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.
> View attachment 1670708
> View attachment 1670709
> View attachment 1670710
> ...


You reveal yourself with posts like this. Given the fact that many of these are IMDO posts which are done in _children, _and they are women and thus have no bearing on what kind of jaw surgery he does on males.

Second, your claim about Sergio is wrong. Sergio joined jawsurgeryforums after Coceancig was banned for shilling and because he was part of a "analyse my face" group that was literally scamming people. Then Sergio tried to shill for Coceancig and promoted IMDO on the forum, a procedure for children – despite the user base being adults. He then admitted after some questioning that he basically never does IMDO in adults. So they told him to stop shilling false hope to people. It is simply an attempt to get more referrals and consults, and then they say "well you cannot do IMDO but I'll give you bimax". Sergio is not a well known maxillofacial surgeon, so this is a good ploy. Most people would rather just go to a known bimax surgeon in the first place.

And why does Sergio feel the need to sign up for lookism forums? That strikes me as quite odd


----------



## TsarTsar444 (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> View attachment 1670704
> 
> 
> View attachment 1670705
> ...


Looks better in the morph jfl


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water


You make no sense... you realise a doctor can still make his results good by only posting his good results. Coceancig posts the same few cases again and again. LMAO. It's easy if you don't post 90% of your cases which have subpar results. Why didn't he post the patient I met at my consult who had chimp face?


----------



## Zenturio (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.
> View attachment 1670708
> View attachment 1670709
> View attachment 1670710
> ...







Holy fuck what an ascension from mouthbreathing normie to gigajailbaitmaxxed aspiring stacy


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> You reveal yourself with posts like this. Given the fact that many of these are IMDO posts which are done in _children, _and they are women and thus have no bearing on what kind of jaw surgery he does on males.


Out of the 6 cases or so only this girl



was an IMDO case. Also why does it even matter? You said the main problem was that he was overdoing everyone. By that logic even she could have been overdone but clearly wasn't. All of the other cases in the post were BIMAXes.



valhalar said:


> Second, your claim about Sergio is wrong. Sergio joined jawsurgeryforums after Coceancig was banned for shilling and because he was part of a "rate me" analysis group that was literally scamming people. Then Sergio tried to shill for Coceancig and promoted IMDO on the forum, a procedure for children – despite the user base being adults. He then admitted after some questioning that he basically never does IMDO in adults. So they told him to stop shilling false hope to people. It is simply an attempt to get more referrals and consults, and then they say "well you cannot do IMDO but I'll give you bimax". Sergio is not a well known maxillofacial surgeon, so this is a good ploy. Most people would rather just go to a known bimax surgeon in the first place.
> 
> And why does Sergio feel the need to sign up for lookism forums? That strikes me as quite odd


I don't want to go back to rereading that drivel but I think you are full of shit because Sergio told me he does IMDO on adults all the way into their mid-30s.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Zenturio said:


> View attachment 1670720
> 
> Holy fuck what an ascension from mouthbreathing normie to gigajailbaitmaxxed aspiring stacy


*Meanwhile Ramieri's results be like*


*from a dangerous bad boy to a cutie who wouldn't hurt a fly.*


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

@spark your continued reference to female cases on a male forum should stop. 

Why does Coceancig have less than 10 male cases? Most of which have some degree of uncanny about them. Why does he charge $3000 for a cone beam other surgeons charge $150 for? He is a sketchy dude, not a serious guy.



spark said:


> Meanwhile Ramieri's results be like


That's the difference between Ramieri and Coceancig. Ramieri actually posts a shit tonne of his results. I have seen literally a handful of Coceancig male results, which he continues to post years after the fact. He should have done thousands of cases by now but we never ever see them!


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> you are full of shit because Sergio told me he does IMDO on adults all the way into their mid-30s


Sergio admitted that it is done on "skeletally immature patients" on JSF. It is extremely rare to do IMDO in adults, hence why Coceancig and Sergio upload videos of their patients where they are only doing bimax. If it were really so easy they would be uploading videos of them doing IMDO on their adult male patients for it's "superior results" yet they are not. They keep claiming they do it in adult patients all the time but where is the proof? A rare case, sure. But to me it's an obvious foot in the door strategy because people are desperate for IMDO.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> @spark your continued reference to female cases on a male forum should stop.
> 
> Why does Coceancig have less than 10 male cases? Most of which have some degree of uncanny about them. Why does he charge $3000 for a cone beam other surgeons charge $150 for? He is a sketchy dude, not a serious guy.
> 
> ...


If your qualm with him would be him being overpriced I'd be ok with it. What you are doing is that you are claiming bullshit like that he is overdoing everyone and they all end up looking like crazy freaks when I have yet to see a single case of that.

Also most surgeons I've looked up (now not talking about the ones mentioned on the net but the ones from Central Europe who are somewhat local always have only a few cases on their site). Coceancig has so far shown like 40 cases on his IG meanwhile you are making it look like he doesn't show any. He shows more than most.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> If your qualm with him would be him being overpriced I'd be ok with it. What you are doing is that you are claiming bullshit like that he is overdoing everyone and they all end up looking like crazy freaks when I have yet to see a single case of that.
> 
> Also most surgeons I've looked up (now not talking about the ones mentioned on the net but the ones from Central Europe who are somewhat local always have only a few cases on their site). Coceancig has so far shown like 40 cases on his IG meanwhile you are making it look like he doesn't show any. He shows more than most.


No, surgeons who do no marketing and focus on their job do not post many cases.

Surgeons who do a lot of marketing, charge a fortune but do not post many photos are sketchy.

In the middle you have a healthy balance. Ramieri is an example. He posts heaps of his results, including ones that are the best possible outcome but will never be perfect. He is also a normal price. 

Yet Coceancig only posts the ones that look the best, which is suspect given some of the horrible reviews and comments from his former colleague. He is still posting the same cases from 2016 despite claiming to have done surgery in thousands.

Not only that, he claims he has done IMDO in "hundreds" of adult jaws yet I have _never_ seen one of them.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Sergio admitted that it is done on "skeletally immature patients" on JSF. It is extremely rare to do IMDO in adults, hence why Coceancig and Sergio upload videos of their patients where they are only doing bimax. If it were really so easy they would be uploading videos of them doing IMDO on their adult male patients for it's "superior results" yet they are not. They keep claiming they do it in adult patients all the time but where is the proof? A rare case, sure. But to me it's an obvious foot in the door strategy because people are desperate for IMDO.


I don't think they claim they do it all the time on older patients. I think Coceancig even said it somewhere that it is not feasible for most adults as it is a very slow process. I mean most adults don't even wanna wear braces anymore let alone spend several months doing this. This is an adult IMDO case for example. 


The "super bimaxes" all utilize IMDOs. I mean what is the issue? Coceancig does both IMDO and BSSO.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> No, surgeons who do no marketing and focus on their job do not post many cases.
> 
> Surgeons who do a lot of marketing, charge a fortune but do not post many photos are sketchy.
> 
> ...


Anglo surgeons are always more expensive. You are gonna pay even more in America. I have only seen one legitimately bad review where the woman claimed chronic pain after a le fort (but was still happy with her aesthetic results). Other "bad" reviews are just people saying he is mean and arrogant and what not. The former colleague you are talking about is an anon on an internet forum so that doesn't even count.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Anglo surgeons are always more expensive. You are gonna pay even more in America. I have only seen one legitimately bad review where the woman claimed chronic pain after a le fort. Other "bad" reviews are just people saying he is mean and arrogant and what not. The former colleague you are talking about is an anon on an internet forum so that doesn't even count.


No, Coceancig is charging multiple times more than jaw surgeons in his own city who produce good results. He charges $3000 for a fucking cone beam.



spark said:


> This is an adult IMDO case for example


No, it was a late teen IMDO. Show me the IMDO he does in adults 25+ which he claims he has done hundreds of but apparently posted no results.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> No, Coceancig is charging multiple times more than jaw surgeons in his own city who produce good results. He charges $3000 for a fucking cone beam.
> 
> 
> No, it was a late teen IMDO. Show me the IMDO he does in adults 25+ which he claims he has done hundreds of but apparently posted no results.


Has he claimed that he has done hundreds of 25+ IMDOs? All I have heard from him was that he doesn't recommend IMDOs to most adults and instead goes for BSSOs..

Also this was sent to me from one of his patients on this forum:





35k Australian dollars is 23k EUR for 3 facial surgeries? Doesn't seem that terrible tbh.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Has he claimed that he has done hundreds of 25+ IMDOs? All I have heard from him was that he doesn't recommend IMDOs to most adults and instead goes for BSSOs..
> 
> Also this was sent to me from one of his patients on this forum:
> 
> ...


He has claimed in his comment section on YT that he did hundreds of adult IMDO’s lol.

As for price, it is $90,000 - $120,000 for foreigners. His 35k is with Medicare taken into account for locals. By the way, with other surgeons in Australia you can do double jaw surgery for $8k - $12k. Coceancig is literally charging 3x the market rate lmao.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> He has claimed in his comment section on YT that he did hundreds of adult IMDO’s lol.
> 
> As for price, it is $90,000 - $120,000 for foreigners. His 35k is with Medicare taken into account for locals. By the way, with other surgeons in Australia you can do double jaw surgery for $8k - $12k. Coceancig is literally charging 3x the market rate lmao.


Is it really 90-120k? I would like to see some evidence of that. Why would he do triple the price for non-Australians?


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Is it really 90-120k? I would like to see some evidence of that. Why would he do triple the price for non-Australians?


Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.

I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao. 

Btw, THIS is my lower third which he said he wanted to do a huge custom bimax on even though my jaw is proportional to my face/frame. I only went to see him about small custom implants for symmetry at the time. 



IMO he’s a mad man.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

^
I should’ve written that in coherent order but basically I went to ask about a very thin 1-2mm implant for symmetry, and he launched into claiming i “needed” custom bimax for my health… or I’ll die early due to breathing issues and TMJ even though I sleep fine and have no TMJ issues. 

He then ignored me saying I didn’t want that, and proceeded to say this was the best course for my appearance and health, asked what we did for careers. Then he said it would be 90-120k. I even have the emails from them pestering me to see if I wanted surgery even though I said no jfl.


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## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.
> 
> I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.
> 
> ...



daddy ?


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.
> 
> I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.
> 
> ...



The guy who sent me that though said the 35k was almost entirely paid by the insurance so it would seem like that 35k would be the cost for someone without an insurance.


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> The guy who sent me that though said the 35k was almost entirely paid by the insurance so it would seem like that 35k would be the cost for someone without an insurance.


Okay but that doesn’t change the fact he is still Australian. A foreigners insurance isn’t gonna cover bimaxillary surgery done in australia. So it’s 90k for custom bimax.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Okay but that doesn’t change the fact he is still Australian. A foreigners insurance isn’t gonna cover bimaxillary surgery done in australia. So it’s 90k for custom bimax.


Hmm I might be remembering wrong but I think there was someone on this forum who wasn't Australian who got a surgery from him and it didn't seem that expensive but I am not sure. IMDO is much cheaper though. Maybe that is another reason he doesn't do it as often in adults.


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Hmm I might be remembering wrong but I think there was someone on this forum who wasn't Australian who got a surgery from him and it didn't seem that expensive but I am not sure. IMDO is much cheaper though. Maybe that is another reason he doesn't do it as often in adults.


Yeah but you're never gonna just get IMDO, you need upper jaw surgery for it to work. From what I gave seen, Paul is known for subterfuge and "quoting" for IMDO but excludes the cost of the upper jaw surgery, as he sells everything as "individual procedures".

Ramieri charging ~22k AUD (his total private cost without insurance, including anaesthetic and hospital) for bimax is far cheaper than $90,000 AUD for Paul's bimax (total private cost) which _does not_ include theatre cost, hospital stay, and anaesthetic.

BTW custom bimax is basically what most users on this forum would be looking at.


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## Mongrelcel (May 8, 2022)

another W for italian surgeons


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

Mongrelcel said:


> another W for italian surgeons


Coceancig is also Italian btw. His mom and dad are Italian immigrants and he still speaks Italian with his family.


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## Mongrelcel (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Coceancig is also Italian btw. His mom and dad are Italian immigrants and he still speaks Italian with his family.


what a plot twist


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Yeah but you're never gonna just get IMDO, you need upper jaw surgery for it to work. From what I gave seen, Paul is known for subterfuge and "quoting" for IMDO but excludes the cost of the upper jaw surgery, as he sells everything as "individual procedures".
> 
> Ramieri charging ~22k AUD (his total private cost without insurance, including anaesthetic and hospital) for bimax is far cheaper than $90,000 AUD for Paul's bimax (total private cost) which _does not_ include theatre cost, hospital stay, and anaesthetic.
> 
> BTW custom bimax is basically what most users on this forum would be looking at.


Yeah I would never be able to afford 100k but the pricing he offered to that Australian guy seemed pretty reasonable


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Coceancig is also Italian btw. His mom and dad are Italian immigrants and he still speaks Italian with his family.


According to his bio his family emigrated from Scotland in 1826. His children hold Swiss and Italian passports, so sounds like one of his parents is Italian.


spark said:


> Yeah I would never be able to afford 100k but the pricing he offered to that Australian guy seemed pretty reasonable


Surgeons in Australia quote prices with Medicare taken into account though. The "no rebates" throws people off, but surgeons use bulk-billing meaning you don’t have to pay for your medical service from a health professional. They are actually billing the majority of the cost to Medicare instead. Anything "extra" on top gets charged to the patient, which is what Coceancig is charging there.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> According to his bio his family emigrated from Scotland in 1826. His children hold Swiss and Italian passports, so sounds like one of his parents is Italian.
> 
> Surgeons in Australia quote prices with Medicare taken into account though. The "no rebates" throws people off, but surgeons use bulk-billing meaning you don’t have to pay for your medical service from a health professional. They are actually billing the majority of the cost to Medicare instead. Anything "extra" on top gets charged to the patient, which is what Coceancig is charging there.


His dad is Italian but maybe his mom is Scottish then.


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> His dad is Italian but maybe his mom is Scottish then.


Edit: nvm last name lol


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Sorry but how do you even know this? That seems kinda stalkerish


I mean you dug out his entire family lmao. I mean the guy doesn't even look Anglo I watched some of his videos on youtube and he spoke with his dad about his childhood in Italy. Also his last name is Italian.


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> I mean you dug out his entire family lmao. I mean the guy doesn't even look Anglo I watched some of his videos on youtube and he spoke with his dad about his childhood in Italy. Also his last name is Italian.


I copied a link to a bio bro lol.


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## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

so, what's the consensus here? should we hang coceancig or nah?


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I copied a link to a bio bro lol.


Yeah I know but after I mentioned him being Italian it took you like 3 minutes to dig out his entire bio from a non-Australian website I have never even heard about https://www.dentist.co.nz/


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Yeah I know but after I mentioned him being Italian it took you like 3 minutes to dig out his entire bio from a non-Australian website I have never even heard about https://www.dentist.co.nz/


I googled Coceancig Italian lol



randomvanish said:


> so, what's the consensus here? should we hang coceancig or nah?


Whether or not you like Coceancig's aesthetic is up to you. I think he does meme forward growth but it depends on the person. If you like that aesthetic and are Australian then fine. If you aren't Australian who even cares.


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> so, what's the consensus here? should we hang coceancig or nah?


He seems to have the best results by far, is known to be more expensive than other surgeons in Australia, he really hates orthodontic appliances and dislikes the Mewtards and claims everything is genetics and that environment doesn't matter (which I even argued against underneath his videos).


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## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> He seems to have the best results by far, is known to be more expensive than other surgeons in Australia, he really hates orthodontic appliances and dislikes the Mewtards and claims everything is genetics and that environment doesn't matter (which I even argued against underneath his videos).


Most surgeons don't even post results, so how can you say that? I think you need to see results in the clinic. I saw a dude in his 70s who posts nothing and he was doing the same movements developed by Arnett-Gunson


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Most surgeons don't even post results, so how can you say that? I think you need to see results in the clinic. I saw a dude in his 70s who posts nothing and he was doing the same movements developed by Arnett-Gunson


Yeah there could be some better surgeons who don't post results but since they don't post results you can never know if they are good or not. The average surgeon who doesn't post results is likely much worse than the guys who do.


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## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Yeah there could be some better surgeons who don't post results but since they don't post results you can never know if they are good or not. The average surgeon who doesn't post results is likely much worse than the guys who do.


who are the top 5 according to your findings?


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## spark (May 8, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> who are the top 5 according to your findings?


No idea bro I usually look up the names which pop up on this forum which is like the same 5 names over again. There was this American surgeon posted here like a year ago who was doing some crazy custom surgery to a quite a deformed person (or maybe it was an accident victim I don't know). I even forgot his name but everyone was super impressed here including me. I can't really help you here I am afraid. The reason I said Coceancig has the best results is because his results have impressed me the most compared to the guys always mentioned here.


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## Mongrelcel (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> No idea bro I usually look up the names which pop up on this forum which is like the same 5 names over again. There was this American surgeon posted here like a year ago who was doing some crazy custom surgery to a quite a deformed person (or maybe it was an accident victim I don't know). I even forgot his name but everyone was super impressed here including me. I can't really help you here I am afraid. The reason I said Coceancig has the best results is because his results have impressed me the most compared to the guys always mentioned here.


ramieri has impressed me the most 
whole package - results, skill and pricing

didn't look super deep into it tho


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

Mongrelcel said:


> ramieri has impressed me the most
> whole package - results, skill and pricing
> 
> didn't look super deep into it tho


what's the price for foreigners?


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Also gj trying to figure out the infraorbital margin and connecting it to the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus from a photo like this.


It’s called ignorance


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Add nasion projection too


Asking too much from this retard


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> The lines drawn are obviously wrong though. It's impossible to correctly assess it from candids.


 this @valhalar guy is legit crazy and stupid. 

He’s drawing lines on the skin of randomly taken pictures of people and guessing where the bone sits under the skin. Which can radically change the rotation of right angle of the lines depending where he guesses. 

When the actual method is drawing lines on bone from 3 dimensionally perfect CT scans. 

Before he can even argue his point his evidence is severely fundamentally flawed. 

I’m surprised this argument has spanned so many repetitive posts.


----------



## lasthope (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Lol he literally claims here that big masseters are from eating a lot of corn, clenching and playing football, and the other surgeon says its genetics and he disagrees:
> 
> 
> 
> Your continued claims that I am lying or making stuff up are cringe when you're the one who has failed to provide any evidence for your arguments.



Does Coceancig states here that he would probably done bimax too if he was younger?
@37:40


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Now he doesn't want to work with Coceancig anymore so much that I was almost refused treatment by my ortho since he thought I wanted surgery with Coceancig


So your argument is one orthodontist disagreed with his method.


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Lol he literally claims here that big masseters are from eating a lot of corn, clenching and playing football, and the other surgeon says its genetics and he disagrees:


Correct


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (May 8, 2022)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Add nasion projection too


RealSurgerymax commented on my post


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Is it really 90-120k


For foreigners yes. 

Medical industry is notorious for cranking high prices against insurance companies. Then when you try to go privately the price is incredibly high. 

The Entire USA medical system is very bad for this. It is a surprisingly misunderstood situation.


----------



## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Adding nasion projection doesn't change the fact that user tilted it far beyond 'good posture'. The line from ear, through the infra to the nasal bone is already the Frankfurt plane indicating horizontal head position. The only thing good posture would due is straighten up the neck, not alter the angle his face is at.
> 
> If you have to be looking down 24/7 for the result to look normal then lol.
> 
> Can people here just acknowledge that the dude does not need surgery and is already good looking despite not meeting measurements conjured up by maxillofacial surgeons.


I know a stacy who keeps her head like that natty


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.
> 
> I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.
> 
> ...



Post more than this man we can’t garner anything from this picture


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

valhalar said:


> basically I went to ask about a very thin 1-2mm implant for symmetry


I can’t take you seriously. 

Your brain is not wired right. 

Seek a therapist


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Patient A said:


> For foreigners yes.
> 
> Medical industry is notorious for cranking high prices against insurance companies. Then when you try to go privately the price is incredibly high.
> 
> The Entire USA medical system is very bad for this. It is a surprisingly misunderstood situation.


Damn do you know more about Coceancig's pricing? It seems incredibly expensive.


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Damn do you know more about Coceancig's pricing? It seems incredibly expensive.


Listen numbnuts #2, we have already explained his pricing and reasons for it. It is what it is there’s no argument. 

Contact him yourself if you are seriously interested.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Patient A said:


> Listen numbnuts #2, we have already explained his pricing and reasons for it. It is what it is there’s no argument.
> 
> Contact him yourself if you are seriously interested.


Chill I was just probing for information thinking you might have had a consultation with him.


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

*@valhar points summarised:*


Coceancig has high prices
Coceancig once said that massuetur muscles get most of their size from hypertrophy, this could be interpreted as shape not just size. 
Apparently an orthodontist disagrees with Coceancig advancement methods.


@valhalar guesses where bone sits under skin on non scientific pictures and draws lines. 
@valhalar posts terrible non scientifIc picture of his lower facial third
@valhalar thinks 1-2mm thick jaw implants are worthwhile, say no more about his knowledge and mental health


----------



## randomvanish (May 8, 2022)

Patient A said:


> *@valhar points summarised:*
> 
> 
> Coceancig has high prices
> ...


so you not summarizing my posts when i beg for knowledge?






add this; 


Randomvanish, who is a great guy, demanding a legit consensus on Coceancig.


----------



## Patient A (May 8, 2022)

spark said:


> Chill I was just probing for information thinking you might have had a consultation with him.


Look, you have both annoyed me with this thread with your autism and stupidity. You are not as bad as @valhalar tho.


----------



## spark (May 8, 2022)

Patient A said:


> Look, you have both annoyed me with this thread with your autism and stupidity. You are not as bad as @valhalar tho.


You still liked most of my posts here.


----------



## thecel (May 8, 2022)

PURE ARYAN GENETICS said:


> I morphed it with good posture and then a better ramus that would fit such forward growth. looks pretty good
> View attachment 1660906



 “good posture”


----------



## thecel (May 8, 2022)

@valhalar You’re Wrong.


----------



## valhalar (May 8, 2022)

thecel said:


> @valhalar You’re Wrong.
> 
> View attachment 1671696


First; that isn’t the Coceancig line. 

Second, even Barrett is recessed according to the line because the line is where the bone goes, not soft tissue. 

Third, the line is fine on some phenotypes, but it shouldn’t be a blanket rule.


----------



## thecel (May 9, 2022)

valhalar said:


> First; that isn’t the Coceancig line.








valhalar said:


> Second, even Barrett is recessed according to the line because the line is where the bone goes, not soft tissue.



I drew the line where the bones are. You see the soft tissue on the chin protruding ahead of the line?




valhalar said:


> Third, the line is fine on some phenotypes, but it shouldn’t be a blanket rule.


----------



## LightSkinNoob (May 9, 2022)

Patient A said:


> Listen numbnuts #2


----------



## bossman (May 9, 2022)

Nobody would go into so much effort to make Coceancig look like shit without a personal reason. 

Yes, there are many people on this forum who don't like Coceancig for whatever reason, but it's not what half their posts are about. 

Chances are Coceancig brutally destroyed OPs self esteem and now he's crying here like an abused dog.


----------



## Yoke (May 9, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I've seen many people ask questions about Dr. Paul Coceancig's "Coceancig Line" for jaw surgery.
> 
> In his words "A vertical maximal _aesthetic line_ from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.."
> 
> ...


you did not really move the soft tissues of the midface in your morph. Would the nasal base not be pushed forward with his maxilla?


----------



## spark (May 9, 2022)

bossman said:


> Nobody would go into so much effort to make Coceancig look like shit without a personal reason.
> 
> Yes, there are many people on this forum who don't like Coceancig for whatever reason, but it's not what half their posts are about.
> 
> Chances are Coceancig brutally destroyed OPs self esteem and now he's crying here like an abused dog.


It's weird after he mentioned the jawsurgery forums I went to visit it and he is posting there with the same nickname and was crying about Coceancig in 2019 already.


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (May 9, 2022)

thecel said:


> “good posture”


I will rape you thecel


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## EnjoyerOf Water (May 31, 2022)

Mmm, no. There is an angle error due to the posture of the guy in the photo, which we can verify even by comparing the cheekbones.


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## EverythingMattersCel (May 31, 2022)

spark said:


> >his former college
> >some random guy on a forum
> 
> just like the post about Coceancig trolling the forum and as proof you post some guy accusing some other guy of being Coceancig
> ...


Ppl here treat surgeons like a football team they love or hate.


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## Deleted member 16380 (May 31, 2022)

valhalar said:


> I've seen many people ask questions about Dr. Paul Coceancig's "Coceancig Line" for jaw surgery.
> 
> In his words "A vertical maximal _aesthetic line_ from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.."
> 
> ...


Meanwhile, this Coceancig registered on Looksmax and is now imparting knowledge on us, mere mortals 








am i the best morpher?


in the world :p :ogre: :D :feelswhy::feelswhy: she has the most perfect natural profile ngl




looksmax.org


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