# How Erik Erikson's Stages of Psychosocial Development (Identity vs Confusion, Intimacy vs. Isolation, etc.) Relates to The Blackpill & Incel Community



## RealSurgerymax (Mar 24, 2021)

Of course I am not a psychologist or anything like that, Intro to Developmental Psych is just a class I had to take 🤷‍♂️ One thing that really stuck with me was the basic theory of developmental stages of life.

*His Theory *​Erik Erikson was a well-known psychologist in the field of developmental psychology. He theorized that there are roughly 8 key stages of life each of which having a central developmental goal and there are two basic outcomes: one is the goal of that stage being achieved and the other is it not being achieved. Since this is one psychological theory I really like I have brought it up to a handful of psychologists/psychiatrists over the past few years and of course they all say this is an oversimplification and some psychologists reject this completely. *However the whole field of psychology is just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand anyway and it is going through a huge reproducibility crisis. So take this as a general concept and not like a strict set of rules. Because of cultural changes it is accepted that most of these stages actually overlap and the duration of them can last longer than the original outline proposed by Erikson in 1958. *







> "Erikson maintained that personality develops in a predetermined order through eight stages of psychosocial development, from infancy to adulthood. During each stage, the person experiences a psychosocial crisis which could have a positive or negative outcome for personality development.
> 
> 
> For Erikson (1958, 1963), *these crises are of a psychosocial nature because they involve psychological needs of the individual (i.e., psycho) conflicting with the needs of society (i.e., social).*
> ...



*How it applies to Incels*​Some of the chief problems thought to cause incel status such as unattractive physical features and variants of autism certainly have an impact on the earlier formative stages of life. For example bullying and exclusion in school aged children, while often tamer than bullying in adolescence, can still communicate a lot to child about their worth. *But there is nothing we can do about that now and regret is the most useless emotion 💕*so we will move on to the two most relevant life stages.

The self-identified incel is usually a young man who could fall into either the *Adolescence* or *Early Adulthood* stage. _I feel strongly that the Adolescence period can be extended and even revisited with identity achievement at any age so don't skip if you are college age or 30._

*Adolescence: Identity vs. Confusion & Psychosocial Moratorium*​In this stage the individual is faced with an identity crisis which means figuring out who they are and feeling grounded in that. The only way to achieve this to enter a state a Psychosocial Moratorium. 






Avoiding or being denied identity exploration in the form of 1.) social isolation or 2.) being forced to uphold restrictive identity limitations will result in either Identity Diffusion or Identity Forclosure (such as "I am an incel and that is all I will ever be" or "I am a loser with no purpose" or "I can't be/I have never considered being or trying ___")

Identity Moratorium is a stage where you feel free to question and try on many identities to see what "fits." Many readers probably recall peers in secondary school going through drastic chameleon-like change that may have seemed drastic and sudden. This also happens later in life - going off to college represents a "clean slate" for identity experimentation and many people take advantage of that at this time.

One reason some young men may not enter a moratorium is lack of confidence or social acceptance due to physical features they cannot control (facial form, height.) For example the physically gifted or "Early Bloomer" has the option to be anything he wants to be - his choices are socially reinforced no matter where he may go.

Meanwhile many teenage & college age boys and girls may not feel accepted in certain situations no matter what. Their ability to easily change friend groups or interests at the drop of a hat may be more limited by their peers initial negative perception of them. This negative social pressure can deter one from feeling unlimited in what place in the community they could hold. Many "desirable" identities may seem out of the question.

Some people may have made the honest attempt only to be ridiculed or judged. You have probably seen this negative reinforcement towards identity foreclosure being called "fake" "poser" "try-hard" etc. In other words many people feel like they need to be given permission to be a certain way or break from what is expected of them. That social permission being denied can be in the form of unsaid communication like unfriendly glares or maybe subtle backhanded comments, or using a judgemental or unenthusiastic tone. Permission granted may be enthusiastic compliments, general acceptance, or even blatant invitation and encouragement that they are really pulling this off. These interactions add up and can give less-fortunate appearing people the impression that they need to "know their place."

Luckily these developmental phases are not really set in stone so there is still a time for late bloomers or "looksmaxxed" incels to achieve a comfortable identity and all of a sudden regret and negative feelings become water under the bridge. It can be surprising how people can move on and leave negative chapters of their life in the dust, rarely thinking about them.

*Early Adulthood: Intimacy vs. Isolation*​
This is the stage where things really come together and is the pinnacle of the Incel's situation. Of course, identity as an Incel can go so much deeper than just the strictest definition of "Involuntarily Celibate" as it can also relate to being involuntarily friendless. many self-identified incels are not strictly celibate as they may use escorts, have occasional one-night-stands, or even have girlfriends. I have talked to a great many incels who tell me they have girlfriends but they are not fully satisfied with the arrangement whether that may be the (lack of) leverage they hold in the relationship, amount of respect or loyalty they receive from their partner, unfair expectations being put on them (usually financial), or the physical caliber of their partner (they feel they are settling for less.)

Early Adulthood could be roughly marked as when you leave high school or college (although it can overlap with college) and leaving the environment of the high school or college environment puts the individual at a drastically heightened risk of isolation. Where a young man or woman was surrounded by a high concentration of similarly aged peers, they may suddenly be moving cities and starting their professional careers. Their new workplace will likely have much more limited options for friends and girlfriends as there might not be many coworkers and most of them will be much older than them. Further dating in the workplace is extremely discouraged today out of fear of sexual harassment complaints. Even good looking young professionals find this shock to be hard to handle and can feel isolated and depressed.

In this stage, meeting people in person is left to chance (friends and potential partners).

This leaves the primary way to connect with others as using online apps like social media (Instagram, TikTok) and dating apps (Tinder, Hinge.) For the less fortunate looking this is only going to work against him more since online profiles rely greatly on visual appearance. By this age young men might have beginning or even advanced male pattern baldness, their body is starting to gain fat more easily, not to mention the facial form they have always had.

Other changing societal factors influencing the shift to the importance of a mans appearance are women being able to provide for themselves (just as many recieve an education these days and women are now welcomed into professional roles) and _Hypergamy _as a result of wide-spread and socially acceptable polygamy (hook-up culture). Just generation ago women may place more importance on a mans ability to be a bread winner for her and their future family. Traditional morals were also more common. This isn't to say people haven't had casual sex and love escapades since the beginning of time but the typical "first date" of 2021 doesn't even resemble that of 1991 or even 2001. It used to be a standard that fucking on the first date was usually only a cheap date and not wife material. However these days banging on the first date is socially accepted and can be the beginning of a serious relationship. In fact it's so commonplace that not hooking up after the first hang out might even be taken as an insult and rejection.

So what is the Blackpill/Incel Movement to do? My suggestion is to play the game and meet the demand. Invest in yourself with intensive self-improvement and unapologetically take control of your identity.


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## Ada Mustang (Mar 24, 2021)

B.. b.. b-... BANGER post from @RealSurgerymax 🎉🎂🎉 _BotB worthy_


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## RealSurgerymax (Mar 24, 2021)

While some people might suggest a social justice approach "You're telling men they aren't good enough and they need to bend to societal expectations" (Sound farmiliar? Women complain about this.) I would like to remind you of the concept of virtue-signalling and that society's actions are very different than their words. Looks will always matter since that is human nature no matter how many social justice campaigns are run. Body positivity for men will never become popular anyway. So just embrace the brutal truth instead of deluding yourself and living by surface-level bullshit. But that doesn't mean to opt-out of the game.

So what I would like to remind everyone of is:

Although you may feel set in your ways with the way you walk and talk, anxiety, comforts etc. people CAN change - In fact change and development is_ supposed to_ ALWAYS be happening throughout life
These incremental changes come naturally from LIVING. You don't need to be achieving the world by a certain age you just need to be always doing SOMETHING.
You become who you associate with so choose your company wisely
It's NEVER too late to start making changes


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## tincelw (Mar 24, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Identity Moratorium is a stage where you feel free to question and try on many identities to see what "fits." Many readers probably recall peers in secondary school going through drastic chameleon-like change that may have seemed drastic and sudden. This also happens later in life - going off to college represents a "clean slate" for identity experimentation and many people take advantage of that at this time.


interesting to think about it this way. guys like us who want to drastically change our looks since we want to break away from the "old" us. End the chapter where we felt bad and bullied due to our looks, thats why so many guys think a small surgery will change every aspect of their life.


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## RealSurgerymax (Mar 24, 2021)

tincelw said:


> interesting to think about it this way. guys like us who want to drastically change our looks since we want to break away from the "old" us. End the chapter where we felt bad and bullied due to our looks, thats why so many guys think a small surgery will change every aspect of their life.


Surgery can be life changing and most people could probably benefit from it but there is more to self improvement than surgery. For example lean body composition is a prerequisite for aesthetics.


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## tincelw (Mar 24, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Luckily these developmental phases are not really set in stone so there is still a time for late bloomers or "looksmaxxed" incels to achieve a comfortable identity and all of a sudden regret and negative feelings become water under the bridge. It can be surprising how people can move on and leave negative chapters of their life in the dust, rarely thinking about them.


what do you think about interpersonal romantic development? World is getting really brutal. in highschool you learn how to be in a relationship, you can be shy and naive. You dont need to be a good kisser or sexually attractive, its just the stage in life where you learn how to love and everything that comes with it. Every mistake you make is okay since you are just a kid.

The problem IMO is that the feelings we have are unattractive. Relationships are about trust and understanding, and sharing feelings and thoughts. But what if all your thoughts are negative and self hating? The girl you are with now has already been with many men before, you are late if she is your first. Thats whats so brutal to me. I think thats why so many guys are pedos here and fantasize about teen love. It represents a time where you can be pure and vunerable and develop along side someone you love.


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## RealSurgerymax (Mar 24, 2021)

tincelw said:


> what do you think about interpersonal romantic development? World is getting really brutal. in highschool you learn how to be in a relationship, you can be shy and naive. You dont need to be a good kisser or sexually attractive, its just the stage in life where you learn how to love and everything that comes with it. Every mistake you make is okay since you are just a kid.
> 
> The problem IMO is that the feelings we have are unattractive. Relationships are about trust and understanding, and sharing feelings and thoughts. But what if all your thoughts are negative and self hating? The girl you are with now has already been with many men before, you are late if she is your first. Thats whats so brutal to me. I think thats why so many guys are pedos here and fantasize about teen love. It represents a time where you can be pure and vunerable and develop along side someone you love.


WOW that is true and can really explain a lot about some of the questionable attraction to younger girls here.

Well I think it is important for them to move on and it will be shocking (in a comforting reassuring way) to many members here how many other people are late bloomers and turning a new leaf (and really pulling it off) at 22, 24, etc.

I never dated in HS so I definitely felt stunted by college when I had my first hookup. Some where clearly more experienced than me but many (who seemed believably cool/popular and were very physically attractive) where just as nervous and unpracticed. People you would have guessed otherwise by their identity. I was really surprised but if they could have fooled me you can have that effect on others as well.

Dwelling in the past and regret is so worthless.

Again youll be surprised how many regular people (not blackpilled) reinvented themselves and moved on. I guess a lot of people have the ability to come to these realizations and act on it without finding any “pills” on the internet.


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## tincelw (Mar 24, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Surgery can be life changing and most people could probably benefit from it but there is more to self improvement than surgery. For example lean body composition is a prerequisite for aesthetics.


I have this identity crisis you discussed in your post.




I always had an identity crisis, but my situation was very strange. I did sports and was popular among peers, friends, and family. I got really good positive reinforcement from everyone in my life.

However I have a disconnect between who i see in the mirror and who I think i am. I remember I broke a record in my school for track and field. Ran past the finish line and i thought to myself, "holy fuck, i am that motherfucker who gets whatever he wants". Coach gave me a hug and told me how proud he was, I walked off the track and 50+ people must have congraulated me. Gave my parents a hug and they told me how proud they were and how much they loved me. I felt amazing, pure bliss.

then i walked into the bathroom to wash my face since i was sweating so much. Looked in the mirror and i just broke down. The guy I saw looking at me was not the same guy i had in my head. I envisioned someone who embodies success just like my actions do, someone who is respected and liked. Instead I saw myself, just as I was. No matter what I did i couldnt change the fact that I look like this, I will never be someone who is greatly respected and loved. I will never be a great man, just a good runner or a good whatever I do. It killed me. I have ambission, passion, and motivation but my face reflects that I can never be the guy i want to be. Couldnt cope after that. Instead of celebrating I went home and slept.


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## tincelw (Mar 24, 2021)

https://looksmax.org/threads/learned-helplessness.319891/btw this thread might interest you. I see connections with your post, and why its such a brutal cycle which is incredibly difficult to get out of


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## RealSurgerymax (Mar 24, 2021)

tincelw said:


> I have this identity crisis you discussed in your post.
> View attachment 1058314
> 
> I always had an identity crisis, but my situation was very strange. I did sports and was popular among peers, friends, and family. I got really good positive reinforcement from everyone in my life.
> ...



That's really heartbreaking to hear and to know millions others feel the same way. The world almost always has a solution for any problem if you look hard enough and find it worth it to go to those lengths. That's for anything but in this case it is probably surgery since I assume you are already lean and healthy.

I also ran track and cross country, was very good, worked hard, but hated the skinny physique it gave me. I was definitely not comfortable in my own skin despite being good at the sport.


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## ifyouwannabemylover (Mar 24, 2021)

it feels refreshing to hear this whole narrative without just entirely excluding the aspect of looks and appearance as if it didn't matter

+1


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## Deleted member 9274 (Mar 24, 2021)

Very good thread. Bumo


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## IdiAmin (Mar 24, 2021)

>Erik Erikson

I tell you, his parents were the most lazy motherfuckers in the history, lmao


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## altfute (Mar 25, 2021)

dnrd, bumping so others can dnrd also


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## AsGoodAsItGets (Mar 26, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Of course I am not a psychologist or anything like that, Intro to Developmental Psych is just a class I had to take 🤷‍♂️ One thing that really stuck with me was the basic theory of developmental stages of life.
> 
> *His Theory *​Erik Erikson was a well-known psychologist in the field of developmental psychology. He theorized that there are roughly 8 key stages of life each of which having a central developmental goal and there are two basic outcomes: one is the goal of that stage being achieved and the other is it not being achieved. Since this is one psychological theory I really like I have brought it up to a handful of psychologists/psychiatrists over the past few years and of course they all say this is an oversimplification and some psychologists reject this completely. *However the whole field of psychology is just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand anyway and it is going through a huge reproducibility crisis. So take this as a general concept and not like a strict set of rules. Because of cultural changes it is accepted that most of these stages actually overlap and the duration of them can last longer than the original outline proposed by Erikson in 1958. *
> 
> ...


Nice read


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## Carolus (Mar 27, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Of course I am not a psychologist or anything like that, Intro to Developmental Psych is just a class I had to take 🤷‍♂️ One thing that really stuck with me was the basic theory of developmental stages of life.
> 
> *His Theory *​Erik Erikson was a well-known psychologist in the field of developmental psychology. He theorized that there are roughly 8 key stages of life each of which having a central developmental goal and there are two basic outcomes: one is the goal of that stage being achieved and the other is it not being achieved. Since this is one psychological theory I really like I have brought it up to a handful of psychologists/psychiatrists over the past few years and of course they all say this is an oversimplification and some psychologists reject this completely. *However the whole field of psychology is just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand anyway and it is going through a huge reproducibility crisis. So take this as a general concept and not like a strict set of rules. Because of cultural changes it is accepted that most of these stages actually overlap and the duration of them can last longer than the original outline proposed by Erikson in 1958. *
> 
> ...


Well written sir. I'm currently in the early adulthood phase where you mentioned leaving high school/college, which was 4 and 2 years ago, respectively. It's exactly as you wrote where previously I was ''surrounded by a high concentration of similarly aged peers'' and now I have a job where most of my coworkers are much older. Although it is not my chosen career path, it is only to make money for the time being as my only other option was isolation. It is not uncommon however for personal relationships between coworkers. 

A year after high school I took a 1 year course in acting where all the students lived in dorms, like in college. There were plenty of same aged girls there, but as fate would have it I fell in love with the same girl as ''Chad'' did, and he got there first. I must say I have never before in life felt more motivated to improve myself in every aspect as I did back then. I wanted to be better, more educated and physically fit than ever before, to compete with Chad. Mind you I was already in great shape, I decided to drop my bodyfat as low as I could in the months I had left, cut out all sugar and ate only healthy food, weight trained every single day. I got as physically fit as I had ever been. 
It didn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. Sure I had developed my discipline and showed myself what I could do if I put my mind to it, but I didn't get the girl. I managed to ''mog'' Chad a few times by outwitting him, doing arm wrestling and other displays of physical strength in front of people and his girlfriend, but he still won the ''game''. 

I was crushed after this. For a long time. Chad and the girl I was in love with kept together afterwards as they moved in to town and I went back to my original home town to work. 
Now my goal and ambition is single mindedly aimed at my own personal success. I really don't give a fuck about any girl or anyone who is not close to me personally. I know that I am not Chad or whatever the fuck, but I don't feel like giving up. I have my shot now in my young years, I will give it my all to keep improving every day, and if at the end it all goes to shit so be it.


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## Need2Ascend (Mar 27, 2021)

tincelw said:


> I have this identity crisis you discussed in your post.
> View attachment 1058314
> 
> I always had an identity crisis, but my situation was very strange. I did sports and was popular among peers, friends, and family. I got really good positive reinforcement from everyone in my life.
> ...


Brutal man, that's exactly the crisis I was always having aswell and which, I guess, eventually led me here; not looking like the person I envision myself as, or rather being the complete opposite of it. It can really destroy you in the worst possible ways if there's such a huge incongruity, no matter how much positive reinforcement you get for all your achievements


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## BrahminBoss (Yesterday at 4:06 PM)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Surgery can be life changing and most people could probably benefit from it but there is more to self improvement than surgery. For example lean body composition is a prerequisite for aesthetics.


How much psl change can one expect going from 20 to 10 percent bf? Like in a range ? 0.5-1.5? 1-2?


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## RealSurgerymax (Today at 3:38 AM)

BrahminBoss said:


> How much psl change can one expect going from 20 to 10 percent bf? Like in a range ? 0.5-1.5? 1-2?


1.0-1.5


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## RecessedSubhumanX (Today at 3:58 AM)

RealSurgerymax said:


> 1.0-1.5


What if your face is boneless?


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## RealSurgerymax (Today at 4:59 AM)

RecessedSubhumanX said:


> What if your face is boneless?


Then maybe not


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## RecessedSubhumanX (Today at 5:08 AM)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Then maybe not


0 PSL?


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## RealSurgerymax (Today at 5:19 AM)

RecessedSubhumanX said:


> 0 PSL?


Yeo


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