# Bigonial width - often neglected but one of the MOST IMPORTANT factors for facial attractiveness and harmony



## Bewusst (Nov 11, 2019)

This isn't talked about enough here imo. Bigonial width is the distance between the two gonions (the edges of the mandible where it meets the ramus). It determines how wide the lower jaw looks from the front. If your bigonial width is a lot lower than your interzygomatic width (distance between the cheekbones), your lower jaw will look too narrow. Short ramus and tall chin can compensate for a low bgw to an extent, so can big masseter muscles.











*Low bigonial width examples: *



















*High/decent bgw examples:*



















High/decent bgw makes the jaw look more masculine, square and harmonious from the front (given decent ramus length, gonial angle and fWHR). Low bgw can make the face look top-heavy, especially if the chin is short, and unphotogenic from the front.
I'd say that bigonial width is* more important* than ramus length and gonial angle because it determines lower jaw width and can make or break a front profile. Who cares if your maxilla is forward-grown and your ramus long if your lower jaw looks subhuman from the front due to low bgw in relation to the interzygomatic width? In fact, a long ramus makes someone with low bgw look worse and the mandible appear even smaller/narrower due to inward-tilt of the ramus. The more vertical the ramus, the better, because it ensures decent bgw. A noticeably inward-tilted ramus is a sign of low bgw in relation to interzygomatic width.

Unfortunately, the only way to increase bgw (or give the appearance of higher bgw) is jaw implants. Growing a beard and making the masseters bigger can help to an extent but won't make the face look ideal from the front. Fillers can be used too but are quite expensive long-term and won't last long.


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## Deleted member 245 (Nov 11, 2019)

Agree 100%. Bigonial as wide as zygos looks masc and robust af.


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## TsarTsar444 (Nov 11, 2019)

We will all get jaw implants brahs, we will make it, just believe 👆🙌🙏


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## Bewusst (Nov 11, 2019)

Enigmatic93 said:


> Agree 100%. Bigonial as wide as zygos looks masc and robust af.


Not as wide but close. The ramus shouldn't be inward-tilted too much.


TsarTsar444 said:


> We will all get jaw implants brahs, we will make it, just believe 👆🙌🙏


You have decent bgw.


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## Gunna (Nov 11, 2019)

so, whats ideal?


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## IWantToMax (Nov 11, 2019)

Mine looks decently wide from the front, but I can't see the fucking ramus from the side, it gets me fucking upset because this shit is litterally one of the most aesthetically pleasing things jfl


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## Entropy Incarnate (Nov 11, 2019)

This is why I compensate with chewing. Masseters will fraud the bgw. Even if facial bone development from chewing is a lie, muscles build.


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## FatJattMofo (Nov 11, 2019)




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## Bewusst (Nov 11, 2019)

IWantToMax said:


> Mine looks decently wide from the front, but I can't see the fucking ramus from the side, it gets me fucking upset because this shit is litterally one of the most aesthetically pleasing things jfl


lose fat


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## Deleted member 3043 (Nov 11, 2019)

Bewusst said:


> lose fat


i Guess mine is over tier...


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## Deleted member 685 (Nov 11, 2019)

Enigmatic93 said:


> Agree 100%. Bigonial as wide as zygos looks masc and robust af.


Yep. Every masculine man has it garanteed.


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## imuglymomadmitit (Nov 11, 2019)

legit but you need vertical height too.


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## Bewusst (Nov 11, 2019)

Gunna said:


> so, whats ideal?


Couldn't find anything on this. Maybe someone can analyze attractive men's faces and come up with an ideal "interzygomatic/bigonial width ratio" or sth like that. Bgw close to izw would be ideal imo and ramus as vertical as possible.


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## Hades (Nov 11, 2019)

Legit. One of my biggest flaws. My bizygomatic width is 145mm, but my jaw is only 123mm. I don’t have developed masseter muscles though so that would help. The only redeeming factor of my lower third is my chin height, which is 78mm.


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## her (Nov 11, 2019)

Bewusst said:


> Couldn't find anything on this. Maybe someone can analyze attractive men's faces and come up with an ideal "interzygomatic/bigonial width ratio" or sth like that. Bgw close to izw would be ideal imo and ramus as vertical as possible.


Ramus should line up with mouth.


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## FatJattMofo (Nov 11, 2019)

her said:


> Ramus should line up with mouth.


no no no.
it should be quite lower


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## AutisticBeaner (Nov 11, 2019)

jaw width, isn't that quite trivial?


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## IWantToMax (Nov 11, 2019)

Bewusst said:


> lose fat


I'm not really that fat, I am at like 15%, I will drop to 12% after bulkin gup a bit, but I'm quite sure it won't have much of an effect on ramus


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## AutisticBeaner (Nov 11, 2019)

also, who's this?


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## Bewusst (Nov 11, 2019)

IWantToMax said:


> I'm not really that fat, I am at like 15%, I will drop to 12% after bulkin gup a bit, but I'm quite sure it won't have much of an effect on ramus


Ofc it will. Fat covers your bones, including your ramus. You might not get a model side profile but it will improve regardless. Just see my thread in the rating section.


FatJattMofo said:


> no no no.
> it should be quite lower


I think this comes down to personal preference. I prefer gonions slightly above the mouth as well because I think it looks more aesthetic. Chico for example has this. Mine are lower than my mouth but I'm lacking bgw and chin height.


imuglymomadmitit said:


> legit but you need vertical height too.


His bgw is actually low compared to his midface.


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## Syrianslayer (Nov 11, 2019)

AutisticBeaner said:


> jaw width, isn't that quite trivial?


Jaw width in comparison to face


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## rockndogs (Nov 11, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> View attachment 161919



fwark im mirin this morph tbh tbh ngl


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## Deleted member 3270 (Nov 11, 2019)

Bewusst said:


> This isn't talked about enough here imo. Bigonial width is the distance between the two gonions (the edges of the mandible where it meets the ramus). It determines how wide the lower jaw looks from the front. If your bigonial width is a lot lower than your interzygomatic width (distance between the cheekbones), your lower jaw will look too narrow. Short ramus and tall chin can compensate for a low bgw to an extent, so can big masseter muscles.
> 
> View attachment 161309
> View attachment 161313
> ...


tbf mainstream teen girls actually like a lower bwg because it’s the slim pretty boy look


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## PubertyMaxxer (Dec 15, 2019)

🧐🧐🧐🧐 said:


> tbf mainstream teen girls actually like a lower bwg because it’s the slim pretty boy look








Jfl no


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## BigBoy (Dec 15, 2019)

over for me


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## FaceandHFD (Dec 15, 2019)

it's not that important. forward grown chin what actually matters


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## Deleted member 3962 (Dec 15, 2019)

Mine is wide but still narrower than zygos


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## Deleted member 616 (Dec 15, 2019)

That’s my biggest flaw


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## toptearmm (Dec 15, 2019)

Good thread op!!


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## Golden Glass (Dec 15, 2019)

Hmm I’m not sure there is an ideal bigonial width. It’s a matter of taste as to whether you want to look more “Dom” or more “Pretty Boy”. It’s definitely never good for it to be wider than zygo’s but I think you can definitely have a lower bigonial width and be super attractive to women: Plenty of Male Models have much wider zygos with narrower bigonial widths and look great, Lucky Blue Smith comes to mind,




however he has lower jaw angles so I guess that’s probably a prerequisite for pulling off narrow bigonial width...something to keep in mind if anyone wants more of a pretty boy/male model look.


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## Bewusst (Dec 15, 2019)

Fuk said:


> Mine is wide but still narrower than zygos


That's normal. Izw should be a little higher than bgw. Just not excessively.


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## robtical (Dec 20, 2019)

I need to fix my recession for wider bigonial


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## Deleted member 3479 (Mar 8, 2020)

Bewusst said:


> Short ramus and tall chin can compensate for a low bgw to an extent



Care to explain how?


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## Swolepenisman (Mar 8, 2020)

Pitt bigonial or death


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## SixCRY (Mar 8, 2020)

Does chewing help with bigonial like bone remodeling if you are young and not just massester?


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## Deleted member 4887 (Mar 8, 2020)

Believe me I don’t neglect it’s importance considering my bigonial is 9.5cm


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## Aesthetics_III (Mar 8, 2020)

In one of the old lookism threads they said the ideal was between 85% to 95%. Imo, it should never outstrip the zygos or be equal to them. The ideal is slightly narrower than the zygos, though there are, of course, exceptions.


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## NarrowJaw (Mar 8, 2020)

Mine is quite low, i need MSDO tbh


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (Mar 8, 2020)

no bigonial width for your maxilla


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## Deleted member 4632 (Mar 8, 2020)

Enigmatic93 said:


> Agree 100%. Bigonial as wider than zygos looks masc and robust af.


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## mido the slayer (Mar 8, 2020)

What’s his name?


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## Cope (Mar 8, 2020)

But bizygomatic width should be wider than bigonial width, Meeks has good BGW but his BZW is slightly wider.


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## Uglyandfat (Mar 8, 2020)

Gudru said:


> Yep. Every masculine man has it garanteed.


Aren’t hollow cheeks caused by a wider bizygomatic?


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## Ascensionrequired (Mar 8, 2020)

My width is 10 cm, and I have hardly any jaw projection from the front and imo it looks _shit _in front profile selfies. Think this guy 




Whereas my jaw becomes angular and sharp in an ID/passport pic very similair to this???





His ramus seems straight whereas mine isn't though. It's like the lower end of my ramus just shits into my skull or something. Can you fix that with jaw angle implants alone or do you always need to fix the chin with it?


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## DianabolDownie (Mar 9, 2020)

Ascensionrequired said:


> My width is 10 cm, and I have hardly any jaw projection from the front and imo it looks _shit _in front profile selfies. Think this guy
> View attachment 300584
> 
> Whereas my jaw becomes angular and sharp in an ID/passport pic very similair to this???
> ...


possibly just lens distortion in your selfies


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## Bewusst (Mar 9, 2020)

looksmaxillas said:


> Care to explain how?


Big chin draws the attention away from the jaw and short ramus means longer mandible and less effect if the former is noticeably inward-tilted.


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## Deleted member 3962 (Mar 9, 2020)

SixCRY said:


> Does chewing help with bigonial like bone remodeling if you are young and not just massester?


No


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## Deleted member 3479 (Mar 9, 2020)

Bewusst said:


> Big chin draws the attention away from the jaw and short ramus means longer mandible and less effect if the former is noticeably inward-tilted.


but that wont give the masculine rugged look from the front, it will just look rounded like oprys


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## Deleted member 3202 (Mar 13, 2020)

Ascensionrequired said:


> My width is 10 cm, and I have hardly any jaw projection from the front and imo it looks _shit _in front profile selfies. Think this guy
> View attachment 300584
> 
> Whereas my jaw becomes angular and sharp in an ID/passport pic very similair to this???
> ...


First pic = my forehead/hairline.


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## ProAcktiv (Aug 14, 2021)




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## UglyGod360 (Aug 14, 2021)

Orb bigonial width is narrow


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## AscendingHero (Aug 14, 2021)

Bewusst said:


> This isn't talked about enough here imo. Bigonial width is the distance between the two gonions (the edges of the mandible where it meets the ramus). It determines how wide the lower jaw looks from the front. If your bigonial width is a lot lower than your interzygomatic width (distance between the cheekbones), your lower jaw will look too narrow. Short ramus and tall chin can compensate for a low bgw to an extent, so can big masseter muscles.
> 
> View attachment 161309
> View attachment 161313
> ...


Agreed, top tier thread

So ideally bigonial width should be a tad bitter lesser than bizygo width (85-95 percent) and ideally it should mainly be because of bone


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## Zenturio (Aug 14, 2021)

Jaw implants or death


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## Agendum (Aug 14, 2021)

I had a thread on this already








Why compact midfaces have better gonial width


When faces are downswung they almost always tend to get increasingly narrowing gonial width. Wider nasal floors also seem to correlate to wider gonials. How much does internal muscle tension contribute to the dimensions a face is grown? Is the muscle tautness restricting the direction a bone...




looksmax.org


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## Bewusst (Aug 15, 2021)

Agendum said:


> I had a thread on this already


Look at the post date of this thread. It's two fucking years old


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## Agendum (Aug 16, 2021)

Bewusst said:


> Look at the post date of this thread. It's two fucking years old


Oh my bad lol


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## PubertyMaxxer (Jan 30, 2022)

Bewusst said:


> Couldn't find anything on this. Maybe someone can analyze attractive men's faces and come up with an ideal "interzygomatic/bigonial width ratio" or sth like that. Bgw close to izw would be ideal imo and ramus as vertical as possible.


Id say 0.90 bigonial:bizygomatic ratio

Zygos need to pop laterally


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## Constantin Denis (Jan 30, 2022)

Hades said:


> my chin height, which is 78mm


how did you measure that ? I'm guessing you took lips in consideration too ?


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## Kirby7000 (Jan 30, 2022)

FatJattMofo said:


> View attachment 161919
> 
> View attachment 161920


Eyes are mega frauded in morph. Nt tho


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## Birdcell (Jan 30, 2022)

True. But don't forget that you also need a decent ramus , good chin and respectable mandible length , if you lack even one , you're not having a mogger jaw . I'm going evrn to say , that chin is more important than the width


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## Coompill (Sep 5, 2022)

cheekbones are still aethestic af. a nice soft tapering from bizygomatic to bigonial is ideal. jaw is not too narrow and you stillhave facial angularity. always will mog square skulls. around x.1.1 to 1.15 wider


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## zap (Sep 5, 2022)

This is one of the easier things to increase. hypertrophy of the masseter and pterygoid will increase bigonial width. It'll also give you those "flared gonions" you guys want
>inb4 no it'll make me bloated


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