# My surgery with Defrancq: Custom PEEK Jaw/chin wrap + Special Genioplasty



## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY

As I wrote from previous thread: I got a custom Peek jaw and chin wraparound with a specialized genioplasty that fits within the chin portion of the peek to make a natural mentolabial fold by Dr. Defrancq.

Essential background that led to my choice of Dr. Defrancq: 
If you’re familiar with my 
situation, then you know that previously, I had a custom silicone jaw/chin wraparound designed by and surgery with Dr. Y that did not go as planned: I incurred infection and everything had to be removed. 

Regarding Dr. Y. There are two important distinctions that I wish to make:

1. Dr. Y. as an individual, I liked (even though he was NOT transparent with me: more on that later).

Nobody can beat his design aesthetic: I prepared for months with drafts and photos of the exact aesthetic I wanted. We worked together and he nailed it! Yes, I was able to model and yes I was breaking f*cking necks whenever I went out (night and day difference).

However... and to my second point

2. The overall service was garbage and I would not go back for the life of me.

Really, just outstandingly incompetent staff (desk bimbos) who should be serving fries at McDonald’s instead of handling clients large money transfers or trying to coordinate patients surgical plans (dates, times, medications, proper instruction) you know ... the stuff you actually need to have a successful surgical outcome! (Ridiculously low IQ) although there was one office girl I liked.

Infection period: 
To make a long story short, Dr. Y. Stood by me and his word... to an extent.

He removed the infected implant ”free” less the cost of the anesthesiologist (read that as $4,000 usd + cost of operating theatre $800) However, the issue is that I had to do this twice because the first time was for a culture sample to see if it was an actual infection (sounds good right? But wait a minute) it was actually really stupid because I was taking antibiotics at that time which would have and did skew the test to read negative (no infection) when there actually WAS an infection in the end.

So... two procedures for removal that had a nice price tag of $8000 for the anesthesiologist + cost of using the operating theater twice $1600 for a whopping total of $8,800 (no I didn’t mess that up as Dr. Y. Comped me on the last theater use -nice I guess?) but I want you guys to understand the total cost of our endeavors:

original surgery with Y. was 19k (custom cheeks, jaw/chin) and then add on the removal cost of 8k and this isn’t counting travel logistics (I had to fly back and forth about 6 times and 2 of those times were from across the other part of the world I.e. my plane tickets were averaging $1200) and then you have to factor in hotels (my original procedure I stayed about 1 week in Boston for $800 a night) .... you see where I’m going with this....

You really need to prepare for every possible scenario and have a financial contingency plan in place.

Now ...

With everything removed, I was on the road to recovery (read that as 6 months down time) which actually turned into 2 years for the following reasons: 

In short, that infection ruined everything: place I was living in abroad (had to come home), opportunities (documentary I was going to be featured in), my own projects, financials obviously, time and my health (physical and emotional well-being) -terrible experience -you never want to go through something like this EVER.

I could have gone back to Dr. Y. after 6 months to try again for the cost of the anesthesiologist and operating theater again: $4800 but... 

I knew there had to be a better way and my intent was to minimize as much risk as possible. Silicone had mentally scarred me and was off my list for the jaw/chin area. 6 months of research on implant materials and surgeons turned into 2 years; spanning from the most invasive of jaw surgery with Gunson from Arnett and Gunson to the least invasive (fillers - you’ve all seen those Dr’s who are like wizards with that stuff, insane).

I went on consults to Zarrinbal in Berlin (complete waste of time for me personally) to multiple Skype consults with different surgeons all over the world.

At one point, I even thought “fuck it” I’m just going to get my eye area done with Taban and forget about the chin/jaw because eye area is just as, if not more important than jaw (I know highly debatable) and I wouldn’t have to worry about infection but... I knew what that jaw implant had got me (endless opportunities) and I’ve never forgotten that ... EVER... I tasted my dream and it was snatched away from me in an instant but I’m getting it back no matter what!


That brings me to Defrancq ... the best source of reliable information comes from first hand accounts and I’m across many different surgical forums. My one friend had a disastrous surgery with Dr. Brusco from Switzerland (yeah the guy who uses Titanium for jaw implants and learned how to do chin wings from Triaca). 

Well Brusco obliterated his jaw bone (literally leaving pieces of it “floating“ around) and aesthetically ruined him .... I’m thinking fuck man, this is it ... he might actually rope (it was his 3rd or 4th revision) and at that time I was saturated with too many options (overloaded).

So... My friends saving grace? You guessed it, Defrancq. Defrancq pieced him up and got him level again. I’m thinking if this guy can turn my friend around proper then at least I have a chance.

Checked out his website and saw that he uses PEEK (check mark), see that he’s a maxillofacial surgeon and not a plastic surgeon (check mark and read that), see that he’s done many decent cases and has some age on him but not too much where it’s concerning to me (check mark) *everyone asking me about his age, yes he’s older but quite cognitively adept with acute surgical dexterity to match (I would not trust my face to him otherwise)

I contacted him and we talked for about a month discussing my situation (his proposals and my thoughts: only implants or only bone cuts or implants + bone cuts) and what could be done to correct it safely. In the end he suggested peek implants for the jaw/chin combined with a special geniolasty that would augment the labiomental fold naturally within the chin part of the peek implant. Also, this would greatly expand my airway and reduce the chance for developing sleep apnea in the future.

So... you see, form and function (beautiful). Now, design-wise (this is where Y. Comes in again) because I knew exactly what I wanted (partly my former design as I already knew how I would look) and showed Defrancq my original Silicone implant draft -he was able to draft his own version of it but changed the taper of the gonial angles to be more natural (which is what I wanted) so it was perfect for me.

However, (someone else mentioned he’s stubborn and a little tricky to deal with -I can confirm both) he tried to change my mind on the implant design like 2 weeks before surgery, after I already told him that I wanted design A back in November and we both agreed upon it... (he wanted to rework the gonial angles again and initially I agreed) but it was just dragging on (4 days before surgery! Can you believe that? Stressed me the FO) and didn’t meet my aesthetic standards, so I told him directly to go back to design A (which he did without problem). Although the whole thing was a little strange.

A pre-surgical consult is required the day before your surgery or he will not operate on you (it is an hour long minimum). 
We went through all the details of how the surgery was going to be executed (poor choice of words ha).

I was even shown my PEEK implants and got to hold each piece while we discussed them (I’m kicking myself for not taking photos!)
The PEEK is SUPER lightweight and the material looks very cool in person. I was surprised by literally how small each piece is. 

My experience so far has been superior (metaphorically mogs America in service... HARD) in fact, I would say America (from my personal experience) has thee lowest service standard, it’s disgusting really (feel like I got scammed at one of “top docs” in America with that silicone wraparound).

*will detail moments before surgery (morning of and talking with anesthesiologist etc...) to the post surgery care and my current state of care later (way too tired now and need to rest). Ask any questions relating to this thread that haven’t already been discussed above and I’ll answer each one of them when I’ve the time.


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## Almu (Jan 17, 2020)

Just came for the pics





Got disappointed


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Almu said:


> Just came for the pics
> View attachment 232725



You’ll be so disappointed


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 17, 2020)

Take a screenshot of your CT and send a picture how you looked like before and after (can be other persons, I just want somethingt to compare)


Otherwise, appreciated
should I call it stubborn or driven that you got implants again after infection ? lol


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## SHARK (Jan 17, 2020)

So have you had the surgery yet or no


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 17, 2020)

Dr Shekelberg said:


> Take a screenshot of your CT and send a picture how you looked like before and after (can be other persons, I just want somethingt to compare)
> 
> 
> Otherwise, appreciated
> should I call it stubborn or driven that you got implants again after infection ? lol


of you Y implants


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

@Almu .... so/so disappointed

My supplements for healing


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## Almu (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> @Almu .... so/so disappointed
> 
> My supplements for healing


Damn
But I think Mouth wash without alcohol is better


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Dr Shekelberg said:


> of you Y implants



No CT on my phone but I’ll post implant design scans (you can see just how deficient I was)

As to your last statement ha ha both brother... both ( :


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## Almu (Jan 17, 2020)

Europe best tbh ngl


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Almu said:


> Europe best tbh ngl



EXACTLY


Almu said:


> Damn
> But I think Mouth wash without alcohol is better


 
You’re correct, this was just for traveling and the day before. The morning of and currently now, I’ve a special rinse given by the surgeon.


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> No CT on my phone but I’ll post implant design scans (you can see just how deficient I was)
> 
> As to your last statement ha ha both brother... both ( :


your inned supra-orbitals look DOM, but could it be that you have NCT?


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Dr Shekelberg said:


> your inned supra-orbitals look DOM, but could it be that you have NCT?



You’re quite perceptive .... indeed I’ve a negative tilt BUT... it works with my phenotype.

I won’t lie and say I don’t want positive tilt because I do (with Taban) but this bastion of snobbery against ALL negative tilt is wild. I agree that most negative tilt isn’t advantageous BUT it always depends on the phenotype.


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## MogTheMogger (Jan 17, 2020)

by the pics i've see from his surgeries, i havent see anything interesing, i can be wrong tbqh. but congrats


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> You’re quite perceptive .... indeed I’ve a negative tilt BUT... it works with my phenotype.
> 
> I won’t lie and say I don’t want positive tilt because I do (with Taban) but this bastion of snobbery against ALL negative tilt is wild. I agree that most negative tilt isn’t advantageous BUT it always depends on the phenotype.


you also have a hooked nose?

are you bit dinaric or SEEurope ? Black Hair?


Dr Shekelberg said:


> you also have a hooked nose?
> 
> are you bit dinaric or SEEurope ? Black Hair?


and bushy thick eyebrows ? low-trust face ?

You have to be a turk lol
shouldnt be an insult


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

MogTheMogger said:


> by the pics i've see from his surgeries, i havent see anything interesing, i can be wrong tbqh. but congrats


Thanks brother and I would actually tend to agree with you but ... in my situation, I used my original design from Y and slightly tweaked the taper of the gonial angles ... so, you might see something interesting soon ( : 

Time will tell -first issue of utmost importance is making sure I’ve no infection or else its all in vain.


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## Cody (Jan 17, 2020)

He does zygo and infraorbital implants too?


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Dr Shekelberg said:


> you also have a hooked nose?
> 
> are you bit dinaric or SEEurope ? Black Hair?
> 
> ...



Detective Shekelberg you’re making me regret posting those scans haha but... actually I’m something quite more interesting friend ( :

I don’t think you’ll pin point it but anything’s possible no? ( :


Cody said:


> He does zygo and infraorbital implants too?


He does Zygos with peek, not sure about infraorbital.

Y. did my cheeks and Defrancq has complimented them many times... seems he quite admires them (design and the work done)


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Detective Shekelberg you’re making me regret posting those scans haha but... actually I’m something quite more interesting friend ( :
> 
> I don’t think you’ll pin point it but anything’s possible no? ( :


didnt want to derail your thread tho


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Dr Shekelberg said:


> didnt want to derail your thread tho


It’s all good brother ... I’m enjoying the cat/mouse aspect ha


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> actually I’m something quite more interesting friend ( :


Indian


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## MogTheMogger (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Thanks brother and I would actually tend to agree with you but ... in my situation, I used my original design from Y and slightly tweaked the taper of the gonial angles ... so, you might see something interesting soon ( :
> 
> Time will tell -first issue of utmost importance is making sure I’ve no infection or else its all in vain.



im proud of you king, i hope you show pics of the result so i can have more lifefuel in my life, godspeed fam


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Random rage @ mod knajjd for killing my AVI -reason NSFW??? Really ....

Maybe I need to nuke this thread in honor of knajjd - give me my AVI back you dog!


Dr Shekelberg said:


> Indian


Super no haha


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## Deleted member 2933 (Jan 17, 2020)

Ascension via bones > Ascension via implants.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

MogTheMogger said:


> im proud of you king, i hope you show pics of the result so i can have more lifefuel in my life, godspeed fam



The world needs more like you brother - true looksmaxxing thoroughbreds supporting others!

Thank you for the kind words and if everything works out, maybe I will fam ( :

- LMS Thoroughbred Gang


SirGey said:


> Ascension via bones > Ascension via implants.


I’ve got the best of both worlds, fix your equation ( :


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## tryingtofindsolution (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY
> 
> As I wrote from previous thread: I got a custom Peek jaw and chin wraparound with a specialized genioplasty that fits within the chin portion of the peek to make a natural mentolabial fold by Dr. Defrancq.
> 
> ...


Are you the guy from the Cut article?The one who was of mixed ancestry?


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## eetfuk (Jan 17, 2020)

Implants are too risky in my opinion. I would be worried about it getting misplaced or getting an infection but I suppose that’s the risk your have to take. 

I find it hard to believe a foreign material will remain perfect for fifty plus years. At some point nature will take its course and fuck you up.

Imagine being a grown man with a wife and kids, and all of a sudden your implant fucks up and you have to explain that shit to everyone.


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 17, 2020)

I had a feeling Brusco was incompetent, glad to know my instincts were right. 

Hope you avoid infection this time, or at the very least are able to salvage the implant with antibiotic irrigation in the event it happens.


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## Dutcher (Jan 17, 2020)

Hey man. A few questions.
Can you explain the thought process behind designing the implant? What did you look for? How much was it you and how much was it Y? Why did it take so long?
what do you mean by model? Did you manage to get into modeling with the implants? Did it look real?
What about E for implants? Why not him?


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## Vermilioncore (Jan 17, 2020)

Some good shit


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## Deleted member 3962 (Jan 17, 2020)

Good thread but a picture is worth a thousand words.

show us a before and after (u can blur the eyes if u wanna be anonymous) and tell us the cost of everything from defranq


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Random rage @ mod knajjd for killing my AVI -reason NSFW??? Really ....

Maybe I need to nuke this thread in honor of knajjd - give me my AVI back you dog!


tryingtofindsolution said:


> Are you the guy from the Cut article?The one who was of mixed ancestry?


Cut article!? Link please brother ...


eetfuk said:


> Implants are too risky in my opinion. I would be worried about it getting misplaced or getting an infection but I suppose that’s the risk your have to take.
> 
> I find it hard to believe a foreign material will remain perfect for fifty plus years. At some point nature will take its course and fuck you up.
> 
> Imagine being a grown man with a wife and kids, and all of a sudden your implant fucks up and you have to explain that shit to everyone.


Honestly I agree with you ... I’ve thought about that end scenario too -that would be SO twisted.


AlexChase89 said:


> I had a feeling Brusco was incompetent, glad to know my instincts were right.
> 
> Hope you avoid infection this time, or at the very least are able to salvage the implant with antibiotic irrigation in the event it happens.



Yes... Brusco almost got me too because of his use of Titanium -insider talk but word on a different forum was that Triaca and another surgeon told other people who were considering going to Brusco, to steer clear of him because he has no idea what he’s doing (the crazy part is that Brusco trained under Triaca!)


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Random rage @ mod knajjd for killing my AVI -reason NSFW??? Really ....
> 
> Maybe I need to nuke this thread in honor of knajjd - give me my AVI back you dog!
> 
> ...



3d printed Titanium is a great material for the mandible, I hope more surgeons start incorporating it 

And that's wild. I suspected he sucked because his osteotomies at a skeletal level on the post op cbct scans he posts on his IG all look like dogshit. But yeah, the only people who know for certain which surgeons are good and which suck are other surgeons who have logged time in the OR with them. That's why when I consider a surgeon I always try to consult with someone who trained under them (or trained them) and ask their candid opinion. They'll usually be honest, and won't sing the other guy's praises unless they mean it.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 17, 2020)

Dutcher said:


> Hey man. A few questions.
> Can you explain the thought process behind designing the implant? What did you look for? How much was it you and how much was it Y? Why did it take so long?
> what do you mean by model? Did you manage to get into modeling with the implants? Did it look real?
> What about E for implants? Why not him?



My thought process behind designing my implant was intense and highly personal: I chose around 8 different individuals faces who I admired aesthetically and in the first process of elimination literally superimposed their jaw/chin onto mine using photoshop.

It did not matter whose face I admired the most as I was looking for which features fit my face best (looked natural as my own). As it so happened, my highest regarded individual, aesthetically speaking, matched my lower third in all respects (it was beautiful) and at that point; I knew I had the foundational framework to begin designing my implant the way I wanted.

I used that framework and slightly fine tuned all aspects of the design to my own visage (gonial angle degree, Ramus length, horizontal width, vertical drop and projection length of chin etc...) *i could have left all the aforesaid variables alone and used the superimposed model by itself but it’s not how I operate (everything in my life is highly personalized).

it turned out really good too... so good in fact, that I tried to use the same technique with my eye area! It was much more difficult than my lower third and there were some grotesque mockups looking back at them (if someone saw those work ups without a frame of reference, I’m sure their first thought would be this person is mentally ill). Digressing a bit but, after about 30 trial and errors, I found one that was a decent match (eye area) but in the end I binned it and designed a completely custom eye area via photoshop using just my face (this version is perfect for me and is the one I used in my Taban consult -He said he can get me 75% there) and if this jaw endeavor goes well then we shall see what Taban can do (that will be it for me - no more surgery after eyes).

Back to your queries: price for Y was already mentioned above -honestly just read the whole thing, it might save you many lost years brother.... I don’t want you or anyone else to have to go through what I did -God ... it affects me in so many different ways now (research, research, research) that’s why I’m writing all of this -it’s free first hand information (invaluable!)

Price for Defrancq: I want to say this first, I still stand by my statement that we shouldn’t be posting prices on here... if you’ve been in this game long enough, then you understand and know that posted prices affect future markets (I’ve seen it before many times). However, (and very unfortunately) it seems this forum doesn’t care... so I’ll post it: all my procedures with Defrancq were 13k Euro (this included the surgeons fee of course) but also: staying in a private room at the clinic for 1 week with in house food service catered to you (I’ll take some photos of the meals if people are interested?) *you can literally ask for anything to be prepared for you and it’ll be done or bought at a local restaurant (phenomenal service) and food is delicious. You also get a private nurse the first two days/nights and then rotating nurses after that but there is also one individual assigned to you specifically from the get go (think of them as your patient coordinator and person who oversees each patient on the floor) -To me, these individuals are invaluable resources if you’re concerned about safety and also expect excellent service like myself. Also included was the cost for the implant fabrication/production.

So... all in all, I was very satisfied with my proposal.

Yes, I did local modeling (in East Asia) and the only reason I didn’t push further was because of my infection (sky was the limit). I was also casted for a documentary about foreigners living abroad 1 week before I had to fly back home for removal because of infection (shit crushed me). That was me tasting 15 minutes of fame at that point (I literally had a TV crew jump me as I walked off my flight. It was the most intense experience ever - 2 TV cameras surrounding you, big production lights, mic booms and I was tag teamed by 2 presenters!) -everything was being recorded live -can you imagine that scenario walking off your flight and totally ambushed (literally I was in a daze but it came natural after a few minutes) - everyone in that part of the airport stopped and started surrounding us (me and this TV crew) for sure I saw people taking photos and the group gradually got bigger -THAT is when I KNEW (just reconfirmed) that this look was going to get me where I wanted to be! I’ll never forget it.


AlexChase89 said:


> 3d printed Titanium is a great material for the mandible, I hope more surgeons start incorporating it
> 
> And that's wild. I suspected he sucked because his osteotomies at a skeletal level on the post op cbct scans he posts on his IG all look like dogshit. But yeah, the only people who know for certain which surgeons are good and which suck are other surgeons who have logged time in the OR with them. That's why when I consider a surgeon I always try to consult with someone who trained under them (or trained them) and ask their candid opinion. They'll usually be honest, and won't sing the other guy's praises unless they mean it.



Smart moves friend, seems you’re another LMS thoroughbred.

Cheers,


Fuk said:


> Good thread but a picture is worth a thousand words.
> 
> show us a before and after (u can blur the eyes if u wanna be anonymous) and tell us the cost of everything from defranq



You’re absolutely right but I’m sorry brother, I can’t post any of my photos here. It’s too early for one (I’m SUPER swollen) with lips like IG whores and two, it’s really about privacy... this is a PSL forum. I think a lot of you guys are legit (people like me who just want to be the best physical version of themselves, who will do anything to attain it) but ... there’s unfortunately a lot of mental illness that runs rampant here too (doxxers, twisted people who just want to be malicious because they have larceny in their hearts etc...) so I don’t trust it. Sorry that those few ruined it for the majority of legit thoroughbreds here.

My suggestion is to look at SAL123’s thread again (shout out to @Sal123 who had phenomenal results and was part of the inspiration for choosing Defrancq) and use it as a frame of reference with the information I’ve provided here. These two threads should provide a powerful lens into what you could expect if you chose our surgeon.


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Smart moves friend, seems you’re another LMS thoroughbred.



I learned the hard way like your friend did. A+ thread man


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## Solo (Jan 17, 2020)

Congrats bro, hopefully this time you can avoid infection!

What is your opinion about silicone in cheek?is it less risky than jaw?can you sleep on the side with silicone cheek implant?are you recommend custom silicone implant in cheek/zygo area?

And are you also posting in jawsurgeryforum?i think i read your thread there and also your friend who got chin wing with dr brusco.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 18, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> I learned the hard way like your friend did. A+ thread man


I’m very sorry to hear what happened to you brother -hope you are healing in all respects: no doubt we walk a difficult path friend.

Currently spitting up blood so I’m freaking out a bit -will see what Defrancq says and how the situation is handled.


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 18, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> I’m very sorry to hear what happened to you brother -hope you are healing in all respects: no doubt we walk a difficult path friend.
> 
> Currently spitting up blood so I’m freaking out a bit -will see what Defrancq says and how the situation is handled.



It's alright, but yeah I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Took multiple surgeries over a few years to fix most of the damage. 

Don't freak about spitting blood, but you can gently massage any stagnant fluid through the sutures if you're able to, as doing so will reduce the likelihood of infection. The doctors call it expressing the area. Also ask for a syringe (with no needle) so you can directly irrigate the suture line with the chlorhexidine rinse if you're not doing so already


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 18, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> It's alright, but yeah I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Took multiple surgeries over a few years to fix most of the damage.
> 
> Don't freak about spitting blood, but you can gently massage any stagnant fluid through the sutures if you're able to, as doing so will reduce the likelihood of infection. The doctors call it expressing the area. Also ask for a syringe (with no needle) so you can directly irrigate the suture line with the chlorhexidine rinse if you're not doing so already



Glad you’re better man and thank you very much for that syringe irrigation tip! (very valuable) 

I want to see where Defrancq says the blood is coming from -the other reason I’m not freaking too much is because I had that genio too (I’ve no experience with bone cuts until now -perhaps it’s not too bad -will update when I get the word)


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## CopingCel (Jan 18, 2020)

Thanks for your detailed report.
Looks huge on the scans, I can imagine the fucking difference that thing brought in your life.



Adrenochrome said:


> I went on consults to Z in Berlin (complete waste of time for me personally) to multiple Skype consults with different surgeons all over the world.



What didn't you like about dr Z?

I was consulting with him as well, he is definitely against implants, cause he finds the risk of infection too high.

Also told me peek would be even worse as removing it later would be more difficult due to Bone ingrowth. Aren't you afraid of that?

Also would love some before afters of your original implant via pm if you want to. Posted quite quite a few pics of myself here: https://looksmax.org/threads/need-s...on-troll-answers-how-over-is-it-for-me.85773/
I have no interest in doxxing anyone.


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## Deleted member 3962 (Jan 18, 2020)

noped said:


> any reason why u didnt even consider DR. Epelley


Because eppley is a sociopathic narcissistic jew


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## CopingCel (Jan 18, 2020)

eetfuk said:


> Imagine being a grown man with a wife and kids, and all of a sudden your implant fucks up and you have to explain that shit to everyone.



Thats why subhuman people (male and female) should not reproduce. That only will pass down your suffering to your children.
If you are ugly, get implants live a nice live, have fun, but DON'T FUCKING REPRODUCE. Youre a horrible and cruel person if you do so.
Especially when knowing about the black pill.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 18, 2020)

noped said:


> any reason why u didnt even consider DR. Epelley



Numerous, honestly just google: one account I distinctly remember (as I talked to the patient directly) was that Eppley ran out of skull paste in the middle of his procedure and just left it as was ... he just left it ..... the patient incurred multiple serious issues -it’s on realself, search it.

The most well known:Lucille Lacovelli suffered with “neck gridlock” after a botched facelift by Dr. Barry Eppley. She could no longer close her mouth and had trouble breathing. Not long after Dr. Eppley sued Lacovelli for $40k in defamation damages, she took her own life.

There are many others but as always, the choice is your’s.


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## 6ft8InTheNetherlands (Jan 18, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Numerous, honestly just google: one account I distinctly remember (as I talked to the patient directly) was that Eppley ran out of skull paste in the middle of his procedure and just left it as was ... he just left it ..... the patient incurred multiple serious issues -it’s on realself, search it.
> 
> The most well known:Lucille Lacovelli suffered with “neck gridlock” after a botched facelift by Dr. Barry Eppley. She could no longer close her mouth and had trouble breathing. Not long after Dr. Eppley sued Lacovelli for $40k in defamation damages, she took her own life.
> 
> There are many others but as always, the choice is your’s.



brutal


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 18, 2020)

CopingCel said:


> Thanks for your detailed report.
> Looks huge on the scans, I can imagine the fucking difference that thing brought in your life.
> 
> 
> ...



You’re very welcome brother and yes, it was a game changer for me in many respects.

Z ... ahh Z was an interesting person but he wasted my time and was dishonest -actually he eventually ghosted me (which did me a huge favor because I may have very well went to him) if it wasn’t for Brusco of all people telling me that my mandible was not optimal for a chinwing.

Z said I was candidate for the CW when I was in Berlin and had nothing but positive things to say but when I returned home, sent me a message saying he saw pieces of silicone left over from my previous implant and that he would have to charge me extra for this but eventually ghosted me as I inquired further (fucking thief) I KNOW for a fact that this wasn’t true as I asked Defrancq if he saw any silicone left over during my surgery and on all the different types of scans we took; he said absolutely not!

Zarrinbal is a piece of human debris. He lied twice to me so I don’t trust nor care what he says and he’s biased against osteonomies just as strictly implant surgeons are biased against bone cuts. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle and the appropriate procedure is different for each individual.

Not afraid of anything friend as I’ve been to my own hell and back -do what’s best for you brother and hope you make it (for real).

Don’t have the original on phone but as stated my current version is a slightly enhanced rendition of my original silicone - the original had sharper gonial angles.

Are you humanix?


----------



## CopingCel (Jan 18, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Are you humanix?



No idea what, or who that is. This is my only account on this site.

Interesting. My experience was way more positive. Was there because of nose and jaw. He did take lots of time, was quite positive of dealing with insurance (there is a good chance insurance will pay a part of my nosejob for better breathing). Other doctors just wanted me pay 100% myself. He explained in detail how everything would go, etc.
Even told me to go home, sleep a few nights over my plans and come back to another visit if I wanted to proceed.(Did not do anything yet due to money)

Not sure why he was so strange with you as I overall have seen way more positive than negative experiences from him.

I guess it might be due to his huge bias against implants.


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 18, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> You’re very welcome brother and yes, it was a game changer for me in many respects.
> 
> Z ... ahh Z was an interesting person but he wasted my time and was dishonest -actually he eventually ghosted me (which did me a huge favor because I may have very well went to him) if it wasn’t for Brusco of all people telling me that my mandible was not optimal for a chinwing.
> 
> ...



Zarrinbal became prominent on these boards because of one kid pushing him under multiple screen names, who also ran a phony facial analysis website claiming to be a team of physicians. Presumably to make money for his own surgeries. He did actually have multiple surgeries with Z himself and had good outcomes, but there's no question the hype around Zarrinbal was generated almost entirely from this one kid. I also know for a fact (from another private board) that when someone complained about their result on one of the forums, within days Zarrinbal himself contacted the moderators to try and have it taken down. The guy takes weeks to reply to an email but was all over a negative forum review within a few days. Make of that what you will.


----------



## diggbicc (Jan 18, 2020)

The amount of dedication, pain and money you spent is commendable. The looksmaxxing journey is not an easy one... it is a strenuous one, but we do it because we know that all this effort to change mm of our face will significantly improve the quality of our lives.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 18, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Zarrinbal became prominent on these boards because of one kid pushing him under multiple screen names, who also ran a phony facial analysis website claiming to be a team of physicians. Presumably to make money for his own surgeries. He did actually have multiple surgeries with Z himself and had good outcomes, but there's no question the hype around Zarrinbal was generated almost entirely from this one kid. I also know for a fact (from another private board) that when someone complained about their result on one of the forums, within days Zarrinbal himself contacted the moderators to try and have it taken down. The guy takes weeks to reply to an email but was all over a negative forum review within a few days. Make of that what you will.



Can confirm that this is known across another authoritative forum too and what’s funny is that I actually used that kids photos as a source of contact for Zarrinbal -he responded to me in 2 days time.


diggbicc said:


> The amount of dedication, pain and money you spent is commendable. The looksmaxxing journey is not an easy one... it is a strenuous one, but we do it because we know that all this effort to change mm of our face will significantly improve the quality of our lives.



Good to see another thoroughbred on this forum. You nailed it and thank you brother. I hope your journey is a positive and successful one (keep me updated).


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 18, 2020)

I actually had surgery with Dr. Y back in March (custom cheek implants + custom chin implant) and was planning on going back to him in a few months to have a custom wraparound jaw implant put in, but after reading about your experience with infection and general incompetence, now I'm not so sure it's a good idea to do so, even though the implant has already been designed and manufactured. I was also thinking about getting my cheek implants revised, as they are a bit on the small/underprojecting side as they are now.


----------



## Dutcher (Jan 18, 2020)

OK, i gotcha,

A few more things. If i understood you found several guys who you want to look like, and tried to customize their jaws to your own and built it from there? Did you choose guys that resembled you or just handsome guys? Mind sharing the guy you chose?
And by playing with all the things like jaw length etc, how did you know when was it natural etc?

Why not trust Y? You say you like things to be personalized but i assume Y have much more experience than you.


Also you did not answer 2 questions.
Was it natural?
Why not go with E?

I will soon go the same route probably with E. Any main tips? i do not know if i will go to the lengths you went to customize the result.. But i still want a good result


----------



## zq336 (Jan 18, 2020)

Thanks for sharing your story. Any reason you prefer PEEK to silicon? PEEK is a very inflexible material, so I imagine the incisions must have been fairly large to insert the whole wraparound implant. I believe the risk of infection is the same.


Dutcher said:


> OK, i gotcha,
> 
> A few more things. If i understood you found several guys who you want to look like, and tried to customize their jaws to your own and built it from there? Did you choose guys that resembled you or just handsome guys? Mind sharing the guy you chose?
> And by playing with all the things like jaw length etc, how did you know when was it natural etc?
> ...



Are you also getting a jaw implant? I had a custom midface implant done with Dr. Eppley a few years ago and had a good result. 

I would say the main thing is to get to know your own face and skull (from the CT scan) very well, and think about what relationships in your face you want to preserve and what you want to change. Even then, it's hard to predict what you will look like from just looking at the implant design. If you want to be extra careful it might be worth getting fillers first to try out the look. In fact, if you get Radiesse, it'll show up on the CT scan and you can just design the implant to match it.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

It saddens me to say this but things are NOT okay here ... it looks like I’ve an infection

The next issue is how Defrancq will handle this. So far he’s acted very strange and dismissive about even considering an infection but I’ve been spitting blood 6 days post op and today, the fluid changed from red to yellow/orange .... I’m devastated guys.

SO much invested in this fucking game of looksmaxing and this is what I get?! Be VERY careful what you decide to do.

I’ll update when I know exactly how things will move forward.


----------



## Golden Glass (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It saddens me to say this but things are NOT okay here ... it looks like I’ve an infection
> 
> The next issue is how Defrancq will handle this. So far he’s acted very strange and dismissive about even considering an infection but I’ve been spitting blood 6 days post op and today, the fluid changed from red to yellow/orange .... I’m devastated guys.
> 
> ...


Damn OP bless up. If there’s an infection how likely is it your implants will need to be removed?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

Golden Glass said:


> Damn OP bless up. If there’s an infection how likely is it your implants will need to be removed?


Thanks man but I think very likely. 13k euro fking gone and months of healing ahead ) :

would need a fking miracle man


----------



## Golden Glass (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Thanks man but I think very likely. 13k euro fking gone and months of healing ahead ) :
> 
> would need a fking miracle man


You still going to try to get implants again if they need to be removed?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

Golden Glass said:


> You still going to try to get implants again if they need to be removed?


Idk man tbh I might be done with it and just finish with eyes.


----------



## Golden Glass (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Idk man tbh I might be done with it and just finish with eyes.


Then at least get fillers in all honesty. Good luck man.


----------



## Downey (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It saddens me to say this but things are NOT okay here ... it looks like I’ve an infection
> 
> The next issue is how Defrancq will handle this. So far he’s acted very strange and dismissive about even considering an infection but I’ve been spitting blood 6 days post op and today, the fluid changed from red to yellow/orange .... I’m devastated guys.
> 
> ...



praying for you bro, hopefully things go alright


----------



## Golden Glass (Jan 20, 2020)

@Adrenochrome apparently Defrancq believes infections with PEEK can be treated easily


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

Downey said:


> praying for you bro, hopefully things go alright


Thank you brother, means a lot.


Golden Glass said:


> @Adrenochrome apparently Defrancq believes infections with PEEK can be treated easily
> View attachment 235889



I think you’re my bro on JSF.... for sure this one of our convos.

Thanks for the reminder.... words are nice but you know I’ve been through it once already so I’m not too positive about the chance of success in beating it .... we’ll see man (Defrancq is supposed to exam me this morning). He better have a very good fucking plan!


----------



## kota (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It saddens me to say this but things are NOT okay here ... it looks like I’ve an infection
> 
> The next issue is how Defrancq will handle this. So far he’s acted very strange and dismissive about even considering an infection but I’ve been spitting blood 6 days post op and today, the fluid changed from red to yellow/orange .... I’m devastated guys.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that, I really hope things work out for you. Let us know how things go with the exam.


----------



## crosshold (Jan 20, 2020)

hope everything works out for you man


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It saddens me to say this but things are NOT okay here ... it looks like I’ve an infection
> 
> The next issue is how Defrancq will handle this. So far he’s acted very strange and dismissive about even considering an infection but I’ve been spitting blood 6 days post op and today, the fluid changed from red to yellow/orange .... I’m devastated guys.
> 
> ...




Get on as aggressive a course of antibiotics as possible for this indication with double anaerobic coverage, preferably clindamycin 300mg q6h plus metronidazole 500mg 3x/d. (and if possible also minocycline injected directly into the area in question, but may not be available)

Do this plus frequent hot compresses and you'll at least have a shot at resolving an infection without removal

Do not let them just put you on something like cephalexin, amoxicillin, augmentin, or penVK


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 20, 2020)

Sorry to hear about your infection; hopefully he's able to resolve it without removing the implants. TBH that's my biggest concern in regards to going back to Dr. Y to get the rest of my wraparound jaw implant put in and have my midface implants revised.


AlexChase89 said:


> Get on as aggressive a course of antibiotics as possible for this indication with double anaerobic coverage, preferably clindamycin 300mg q6h plus metronidazole 500mg 3x/d. (and if possible also minocycline injected directly into the area in question, but may not be available)
> 
> Do this plus frequent hot compresses and you'll at least have a shot at resolving an infection without removal
> 
> Do not let them just put you on something like cephalexin, amoxicillin, augmentin, or penVK



High IQ post. Do you have a healthcare background?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Get on as aggressive a course of antibiotics as possible for this indication with double anaerobic coverage, preferably clindamycin 300mg q6h plus metronidazole 500mg 3x/d. (and if possible also minocycline injected directly into the area in question, but may not be available)
> 
> Do this plus frequent hot compresses and you'll at least have a shot at resolving an infection without removal
> 
> Do not let them just put you on something like cephalexin, amoxicillin, augmentin, or penVK



Thank you very much for this brother. Will ask about what you mentioned (I’m already on AmoX either 650 or 850)


----------



## CristianT (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It saddens me to say this but things are NOT okay here ... it looks like I’ve an infection
> 
> The next issue is how Defrancq will handle this. So far he’s acted very strange and dismissive about even considering an infection but I’ve been spitting blood 6 days post op and today, the fluid changed from red to yellow/orange .... I’m devastated guys.
> 
> ...



God, this is the brutal reality of looksmaxing. I'm so scared now.. Hope everything will work out well for you bro  Hang in there and keep us updated.... Just think at the good things will come in future after the surgery, *YOU WILL BE FINE!*

I'm also so curious how Defrancq will handle this... Here we can see if he is a serious doctor or not


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Thank you very much for this brother. Will ask about what you mentioned (I’m already on AmoX either 650 or 850)



Oral surgeons like amoxicillin cuz it's broad spectrum, is decent against strep and has a good side effect profile, but it's ineffective against anaerobes and ineffective against staph. You need to get switched up asap


SurgerySoon said:


> High IQ post. Do you have a healthcare background?



Yeah my entire family is in healthcare in one form or another


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 20, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Yeah my entire family is in healthcare in one form or another



I'm guessing either internal medicine doc/resident or clinical pharmacist w/ID specialization?


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 20, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> I'm guessing either internal medicine doc/resident or clinical pharmacist w/ID specialization?



Those are good guesses, if I had to do it all over I'd go to med school work my ass off for a decade and be an orthopedic surgeon or something, and I literally ALMOST went the PharmD route with the intent of being a clinical pharmacist after my bio undergrad.


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 20, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Those are good guesses, if I had to do it all over I'd go to med school work my ass off for a decade and be an orthopedic surgeon or something, and I literally ALMOST went the PharmD route with the intent of being a clinical pharmacist after my bio undergrad.



LOL I actually just sent you a PM


----------



## Linoob (Jan 20, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Get on as aggressive a course of antibiotics as possible for this indication with double anaerobic coverage, preferably clindamycin 300mg q6h plus metronidazole 500mg 3x/d. (and if possible also minocycline injected directly into the area in question, but may not be available)
> 
> Do this plus frequent hot compresses and you'll at least have a shot at resolving an infection without removal
> 
> Do not let them just put you on something like cephalexin, amoxicillin, augmentin, or penVK



Reading this infuriates me.

When my silicone chin implant got infected, my dumbass for a fucking surgeon just had me stay on cephalexin, over and over again. I think it was maybe 5 cycles over all he had me take this before he finally realised it wasn't working.

What's wrong with these surgeons, man.


----------



## CristianT (Jan 20, 2020)

Feeling better man? @Adrenochrome


----------



## Deleted member 2933 (Jan 20, 2020)

Solo said:


> Congrats bro, hopefully this time you can avoid infection!
> 
> What is your opinion about silicone in cheek?is it less risky than jaw?can you sleep on the side with silicone cheek implant?are you recommend custom silicone implant in cheek/zygo area?
> 
> And are you also posting in jawsurgeryforum?i think i read your thread there and also your friend who got chin wing with dr brusco.



Silicone is shit


----------



## Dutcher (Jan 20, 2020)

SirGey said:


> Silicone is shit


Why?


----------



## Deleted member 2933 (Jan 20, 2020)

Dutcher said:


> Why?



It corrose the bones


----------



## ThisLifeKillsMe (Jan 20, 2020)

Why was zarrinbal a waste of time? Because he doesn't do implants or because his advice was shitty in general?

Nevermind


----------



## Brandon10 (Jan 20, 2020)

SirGey said:


> It corrose the bones


Your jaw after silicone implants


----------



## Dutcher (Jan 20, 2020)

SirGey said:


> It corrose the bones


Can I see research?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

Linoob said:


> Reading this infuriates me.
> 
> When my silicone chin implant got infected, my dumbass for a fucking surgeon just had me stay on cephalexin, over and over again. I think it was maybe 5 cycles over all he had me take this before he finally realised it wasn't working.
> 
> What's wrong with these surgeons, man.



SAME ... EXACT.... scenario with my previous silicone implant: 2 1/2 months on an antibiotic cocktail (honestly, that was ridiculously low IQ) as if he didn’t know it was absolutely futile with silicone.The infection simply shifted to different sides of my jaw each time.


CristianT said:


> Feeling better man? @Adrenochrome



As a human being, I love you bro!


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 20, 2020)

*PREFACE TO THE UPDATE:* Firstly, I want to give a shout out to my brothers, mis compañeros de cultura estetica. These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.

*BfromUK 
@Brandon10 
Humanix*

I’m starting a new movement: LMS Cartel and the above are my sicarios 💯💯💯 Others who I think are cool human beings in the aesthetic scene and consider part of this LMS Cartel


@MogTheMogger - beautiful soul
@AlexChase89 - beautiful soul
@diggbicc - beautiful soul
@Golden Glass - Researcher
@Dr Shekelberg - SHARP perception, impressive
@Sal123 - did it and lives it 💯
@Linoob
@CopingCel - mad respect4posting up here
@CristianT - beautiful soul
@6ft8InTheNetherlands
@highT
@kota
@Casadonis


Time to get fucking real here and keep it absolutely 💯💀 There are no cliff notes and lovely photos for those of you too low IQ to read thru and glean the knowledge of my personal experience which could help to guide, shape, outline and perhaps avoid; complication for your future aesthetic endeavors (I hope everyone makes it!) -if you’re seeking cliffs, then dip -adios maricas

You guys want to looksmax, that’s always commendable but there’s too much bullshit talk about, “looks or death” (yes it’s a maxim and yes, I agree with it) but NOBODY and I mean fucking ZERO people are talking about the reality of these procedures (risks and consequences of hardmaxes).

Hardmaxes are “hard” and classified as such because they are the most invasive of the looksmaxing procedures 🔪💀🔪🩸i.e. the most reward for the most risk! (Infection, botched jobs, the endless road to revision, death leading to eternal reincarnation of sub-humanity etc... etc...). All of which encompass a massive amount of dedication in time, money and healing of the body (not only physically speaking but also emotionally as a result of the former trauma as per the outcome; sometimes even if positive!).

It’s a game but metaphorically speaking, no one is fucking playing. Those of us whom invest our resources into this sport are cold and calculating down to the last detail. Even so... NOTHING is guaranteed for being as, if not more, meticulous and methodical than Dommer disposing of bodies.

Perhaps this is more of a documentary style auto biography, into the life of looksmaxxer.

Time to give you a look into the raw and uncut ....the realness ... the hardcore... LITERALLY... blood, sweat and tears my brothers ...FUCK ... THIS JOURNEY IS NO JOKE!

*Heads up for my upcoming post: *
(NSFW photos - gore??? I wouldn’t say so but some might) 🩸💀🩸

Defrancq saw me this evening and I’ll update you guys on everything tomorrow with accompanying photos (not of my face but as a narrative to my experience).

Copyright © 2020 - *All rights* *reserved*; nothing may be done with my written accounts without my explicit permission.

I reference the above copyright for all of you non-looksmaxing h_ijueputas _(normies, blue pill, under covers, agencies, journalists, “journalists” lol you know who you are etc...) To me... you’re nothing but SCUM looking to exploit looksmaxxers for personal and or financial gain *-*_*¡Malparido, tú eres todo **gonorrea!*_

*One last note: I’m strictly of the Aesthetic Movement.* Do not confuse me or this movement, with that of, “Incels”. I’ve nothing against our fellow human beings of this mindset but it does not concern me (no involvement).


----------



## Sal123 (Jan 20, 2020)

oh fuck this does not sound good at all, i hope it's ok lad


----------



## zq336 (Jan 20, 2020)

Brandon10 said:


> Your jaw after silicone implants



I don't think that's really any reason not to get an implant. And it doesn't make a difference what the material is. 

Resorption is usually only an issue for the chin, and is usually minimal (<2 mm)









Bone Resorption after Use of Silicone Chin Implants, Long-term Follow-up Study with Lateral Chin Radiography


Silicone chin implants are frequently used in cosmetic surgery to enhance a harmonic face. Obtaining an aesthetically pleasing face is increasingly becoming more important for people, and a considerable part of this goal can be achieved through different ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


















Biologic Tissue Reactions around Jaw Angle Implants - Explore Plastic Surgery


Jaw angle implants can cause benign bony changes of implant settling and some limited bone overgrowth.



exploreplasticsurgery.com


----------



## Brandon10 (Jan 20, 2020)

zq336 said:


> I don't think that's really any reason not to get an implant. And it doesn't make a difference what the material is.
> 
> Resorption is usually only an issue for the chin, and is usually minimal (<2 mm)
> 
> ...


don't tell _me_, I was just laughing at how he said corrosion instead of errosion though I truly believe he may actually believe bones get actual corrosion from implants.


Adrenochrome said:


> *PREFACE TO THE UPDATE:* Firstly, I want to give a shout out to my brothers, mis compañeros de cultura estetica. These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> *BfromUK
> @Brandon10
> ...



Ngl felt kinda anxious reading that, it felt like _I_ was the one who had the surgery. I really hope everything turned out well for you man!


----------



## anti caking agents (Jan 20, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Can confirm that this is known across another authoritative forum too and what’s funny is that I actually used that kids photos as a source of contact for Zarrinbal -he responded to me in 2 days time.
> 
> 
> Good to see another thoroughbred on this forum. You nailed it and thank you brother. I hope your journey is a positive and successful one (keep me updated).



I know that his fame is pushed by one kid - but your bad experience with him is rather odd. Never heard of anything similar. Would you mind DMing me your mails with him? I will keep them private. Kinda worried because I will be chosing between, him and Dr. R...


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 20, 2020)

Raffaini is a great surgeon and is actually the keynote speaker at the Arnett orthognathic surgery conference in Sanata Barbara California in 3 days. If it's a choice between R and Z and there are no other considerations like price or Z being more local to you, choose R.


----------



## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 20, 2020)

As expected

Your body doesnt seem to handle foreign material well

keep an eye on your Zygo implant, might be the next


----------



## CristianT (Jan 20, 2020)

[/QUOTE]


anti caking agents said:


> I know that his fame is pushed by one kid - but your bad experience with him is rather odd. Never heard of anything similar. Would you mind DMing me your mails with him? I will keep them private. Kinda worried because I will be chosing between, him and Dr. R...


Same here bud..same here..


Adrenochrome said:


> *PREFACE TO THE UPDATE:* Firstly, I want to give a shout out to my brothers, mis compañeros de cultura estetica. These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> *BfromUK
> @Brandon10
> ...



I'm reading your posts like I'm reading suspense book... haha... eager to know what will happen next bro..


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 21, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> SAME ... EXACT.... scenario with my previous silicone implant: 2 1/2 months on an antibiotic cocktail (honestly, that was ridiculously low IQ) as if he didn’t know it was absolutely futile with silicone.The infection simply shifted to different sides of my jaw each time.



Was that Dr. Y's idea?


SurgerySoon said:


> Was that Dr. Y's idea?



Do you think he was just trying to avoid having to spend the time/money taking it out?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 21, 2020)

*UPDATE (brief): *l don’t have time to pen a fking novel like I usually do because the situation is dire and I want to know what you guys think, as well as what you would do in my situation (I promise I’ll give you the gory details later, after I figure this out)

Here’s the deal: Defrancq’s told me the fluid that’s seeping out is seroma (basically dead cells/tissue and that this is the body’s way of repairing itself). He went on to mention that there is a lot of debris from when he shaved a piece of a bone spur from the left side of my mandible.

Two important points here: 1. Defrancq chose to shave this bone spur (it wasn’t necessary) and 2. now, there’s fluid leaking out because there is a 1/2 centimeter opening on the incision line where he went in to shave it.

So... Defrancq did unnecessary work and fucked things up (unnecessarily complicated my procedure). The right side is perfect but the left is where the hole and fluid is.

Now, I don’t have an infection (yet) but I’m also on antibiotics .... who knows what will happen when off antis. Also, I asked why he chose not to completely close the hole (he only did 2 sutures) and his answer was because he wanted the fluid build up to be able to escape and not “ballon” into a pocket (makes sense) and then, hopefully it will have “dried up” in time.

However, it’s been 1 week already ... and I grilled him on what the plan is if I’m still leaking fluid in the next few days...

He said if removal is necessary, the options are:
1. to remove the implant on the left side only and leave the right side in. Then, after some time (idk how long yet) place it back inside. He is very adamant about this option.

2. (What I said I wanted) remove BOTH the left and right side jaw implants and try again at a later time.

*****Keep in mind that I now have a genioplasty too (thank GOD ... this is the ONLY silver lining in this situation).

So... I want to know... my brothers ... what would do if removal was necessary? Would you: Option 1. rock an implant on one side of your jaw temporarily or Option 2. would you just take out both?

Tell me in the comments: option 1 or option 2

Also @crosshold should be in the LMS cartel too (my bad man, I don’t know how that slipped) PEACE


----------



## Linoob (Jan 21, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Get on as aggressive a course of antibiotics as possible for this indication with double anaerobic coverage, preferably clindamycin 300mg q6h plus metronidazole 500mg 3x/d. (and if possible also minocycline injected directly into the area in question, but may not be available)
> 
> Do this plus frequent hot compresses and you'll at least have a shot at resolving an infection without removal
> 
> Do not let them just put you on something like cephalexin, amoxicillin, augmentin, or penVK



Reading this infuriates me.

When my silicone chin implant got infected, my dumbass for a fucking surgeon just had me stay on cephalexin, over and over again. I think it was maybe 5 cycles over all he had me take this before he finally realised it wasn't working.

What's wrong with these surgeons, man.


Adrenochrome said:


> *UPDATE (brief): *l don’t have time to pen a fking novel like I usually do because the situation is dire and I want to know what you guys think, as well as what you would do in my situation (I promise I’ll give you the gory details later, after I figure this out)
> 
> Here’s the deal: Defrancq’s told me the fluid that’s seeping out is seroma (basically dead cells/tissue and that this is the body’s way of repairing itself). He went on to mention that there is a lot of debris from when he shaved a piece of a bone spur from the left side of my mandible.
> 
> ...



I'd leave one side in and deal with temporary asymmetry:

1. If it heals without complications it guarantees that entire side after revision 

2. Less surgery / trauma in and around your mouth is always a good thing. 

Nice update bro.

I'm sure he's right about the seroma and you'll be fine.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 21, 2020)

Linoob said:


> Reading this infuriates me.
> 
> When my silicone chin implant got infected, my dumbass for a fucking surgeon just had me stay on cephalexin, over and over again. I think it was maybe 5 cycles over all he had me take this before he finally realised it wasn't working.
> 
> ...



Interesting and thanks for taking the time to write brother (I am highly considering the former option, though am quite interested to hear others opinions) Thanks again 🙏🏼


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## CristianT (Jan 21, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *UPDATE (brief): *l don’t have time to pen a fking novel like I usually do because the situation is dire and I want to know what you guys think, as well as what you would do in my situation (I promise I’ll give you the gory details later, after I figure this out)
> 
> Here’s the deal: Defrancq’s told me the fluid that’s seeping out is seroma (basically dead cells/tissue and that this is the body’s way of repairing itself). He went on to mention that there is a lot of debris from when he shaved a piece of a bone spur from the left side of my mandible.
> 
> ...



I think his decision of letting the fluid go out and not suture was the right one and it makes totally sense...

In your place I will wait for couple of days(2 or 3 day maximum) then if the fluid still comes out and things get worst then just remove *everything.* The first thing to take into consideration is your health than aesthetics....

Sometimes being so stubborn is not good.. but then again maybe he is very sure of what he is talking about.... cause he has experience and maybe he had cases like this in the past ....


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 21, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *UPDATE (brief): *l don’t have time to pen a fking novel like I usually do because the situation is dire and I want to know what you guys think, as well as what you would do in my situation (I promise I’ll give you the gory details later, after I figure this out)
> 
> Here’s the deal: Defrancq’s told me the fluid that’s seeping out is seroma (basically dead cells/tissue and that this is the body’s way of repairing itself). He went on to mention that there is a lot of debris from when he shaved a piece of a bone spur from the left side of my mandible.
> 
> ...



His reasoning for not closing it is right, but you still need to be on clindamycin until the wound closes on it's own. Don't eat anything on that side for the time being, and keep it as clean as possible. It may take a week or two to granulate in and close completely, but I think you'll likely be alright.


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## crosshold (Jan 21, 2020)

praying for you bro <3

as for the options i really dont know, both have equal pros and cons to me

how long would need to pass before you can have surgery again?


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 21, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> His reasoning for not closing it is right, but you still need to be on clindamycin until the wound closes on it's own. Don't eat anything on that side for the time being, and keep it as clean as possible. It may take a week or two to granulate in and close completely, but I think you'll likely be alright.



Thanks very much for your detailed insight. I’ve been given a supplemental anti called, “flagyl” at 500mg ... do you think that’s close enough?

Also, if worse comes to worse.... what removal option do you think is better: 1 or 2?


crosshold said:


> praying for you bro <3
> 
> as for the options i really dont know, both have equal pros and cons to me
> 
> how long would need to pass before you can have surgery again?



Thanks for the positive support my brother!

As to the options, just use the same scenario (time wise I didn’t ask yet because it’s a last resort) but assume 3 + months ... what would you personally do? Let me know man and thanks again!


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 21, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Thanks very much for your detailed insight. I’ve been given a supplemental anti called, “flagyl” at 500mg ... do you think that’s close enough?
> 
> Also, if worse comes to worse.... what removal option do you think is better: 1 or 2?



Remember when I said get on clindamycin plus metronidazole? Flagyl is metronidazole. 

So if you're on amoxicillin plus flagyl, I'd say that's probably ok for now although it would be best to swap the amoxicillin for something with beta-lactamase coverage. Is the other antibiotic you're on amoxicillin and clavulanate potassium (augmentin), or just plain amoxicillin? 

Worst comes to worst I'd just remove that one side and look weird for a while. Oh, and I'd ask whether he can graft alloderm or something similar into the sulcus while stitching up after the removal so the area being stitched is more viable for the next try. The biggest problem with revisions in this area is that with every subsequent incision the sulcus deepens and the mucosal tissue becomes more fibrotic and less supple. This make the area more prone to exactly what happened this time (wound dehiscence). But lets hope it doesn't come to that


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## zq336 (Jan 21, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *UPDATE (brief): *l don’t have time to pen a fking novel like I usually do because the situation is dire and I want to know what you guys think, as well as what you would do in my situation (I promise I’ll give you the gory details later, after I figure this out)
> 
> Here’s the deal: Defrancq’s told me the fluid that’s seeping out is seroma (basically dead cells/tissue and that this is the body’s way of repairing itself). He went on to mention that there is a lot of debris from when he shaved a piece of a bone spur from the left side of my mandible.
> 
> ...



I'm glad that you don't have an infection. 

If removal is necessary, I would only remove the one side. Removing and then reinserting the side that's fine would only create two unnecessary surgical procedures and increase the risk of any complications.

Luckily I believe that seromas usually heal with drainage and time. Did he mention anything about draining the fluid? Usually this is done with a syringe. I'm curious why he left the incision open, it seems like that would increase infection risk.


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## KDA Player (Jan 21, 2020)

If this is not an infection, all is good no ?

You will heal normally and he can eventually patch up the rest if needed and all that shit will end being a success


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 21, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Remember when I said get on clindamycin plus metronidazole? Flagyl is metronidazole.
> 
> So if you're on amoxicillin plus flagyl, I'd say that's probably ok for now although it would be best to swap the amoxicillin for something with beta-lactamase coverage. Is the other antibiotic you're on amoxicillin and clavulanate potassium (augmentin), or just plain amoxicillin?
> 
> Worst comes to worst I'd just remove that one side and look weird for a while. Oh, and I'd ask whether he can graft alloderm or something similar into the sulcus while stitching up after the removal so the area being stitched is more viable for the next try. The biggest problem with revisions in this area is that with every subsequent incision the sulcus deepens and the mucosal tissue becomes more fibrotic and less supple. This make the area more prone to exactly what happened this time (wound dehiscence). But lets hope it doesn't come to that




THAT is some SOLID information... invaluable, thank you brother 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

By the way, the AmoX is Amox + clavulanate at 875mg: any benefit to this combo?


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 21, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> THAT is some SOLID information... invaluable, thank you brother 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
> 
> By the way, the AmoX is Amox + clavulanate at 875mg: any benefit to this combo?



Yes in that case you're on the perfect combo. The addition of the clavulanic acid to the amoxicillin gives you that beta-lactamase coverage I was talking about.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 21, 2020)

zq336 said:


> I'm glad that you don't have an infection.
> 
> If removal is necessary, I would only remove the one side. Removing and then reinserting the side that's fine would only create two unnecessary surgical procedures and increase the risk of any complications.
> 
> Luckily I believe that seromas usually heal with drainage and time. Did he mention anything about draining the fluid? Usually this is done with a syringe. I'm curious why he left the incision open, it seems like that would increase infection risk.



Thanks for sharing your thoughts and he already used a syringe for irrigation. The reason why he left it open is because (he says) to release the fluid naturally with no fluid retention (pocketing)


KDA Player said:


> If this is not an infection, all is good no ?
> 
> You will heal normally and he can eventually patch up the rest if needed and all that shit will end being a success


Thanks 🙏🏼 I can only hope brother.
@AlexChase89 -Tell me what you think about utilizing this supplement... (check the photos for the profile)

I LOVE it but I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to use in combination with these Antis (I don’t think it would be an issue but I can’t say for sure and I wouldn’t want there to be any counteracting effects like reducing the efficacy of the Antis etc...


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## zq336 (Jan 21, 2020)

Hmm, I would have thought that it would be better to leave the incision closed (to prevent infection and so that the wound heals), and then use a needle and syringe to actually remove the liquid.

You said that he used the syringe already, so is the fluid all gone now?


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 21, 2020)

zq336 said:


> Hmm, I would have thought that it would be better to leave the incision closed (to prevent infection and so that the wound heals), and then use a needle and syringe to actually remove the liquid.
> 
> You said that he used the syringe already, so is the fluid all gone now?



It's not that simple. Bottom line is it would almost certainly open right back up anyway if he tried to suture it closed, and you'd delay healing even more


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 22, 2020)

@AlexChase89 anyword on that supplement?


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## Barbarossa_ (Jan 22, 2020)

Read all your posts on this thread.
Holly fuck you are such a nice guy man you don't deserve this shit!
But unfortunately nice guys and total sweethearts like yourself always have the worst luck for some fucking reason

I wish you the best brother and I hope you find the light at the end of this fucking tunnel


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 22, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> Read all your posts on this thread.
> Holly fuck you are such a nice guy man you don't deserve this shit!
> But unfortunately nice guys and total sweethearts like yourself always have the worst luck for some fucking reason
> 
> I wish you the best brother and I hope you find the light at the end of this fucking tunnel



My brother ... thank you very much for your kind words 🙏🏼 @Barbarossa_ another beautiful soul now in the LMS Cartel. PEACE


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## Solo (Jan 22, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *UPDATE (brief): *l don’t have time to pen a fking novel like I usually do because the situation is dire and I want to know what you guys think, as well as what you would do in my situation (I promise I’ll give you the gory details later, after I figure this out)
> 
> Here’s the deal: Defrancq’s told me the fluid that’s seeping out is seroma (basically dead cells/tissue and that this is the body’s way of repairing itself). He went on to mention that there is a lot of debris from when he shaved a piece of a bone spur from the left side of my mandible.
> 
> ...



Woah, i hope everything turned out to be ok for you

To answer your question, if you still wanna try again i think its better to remove left side only so there will be less soft tissue damage if you wanna try again, alternatively you can also add filler to the left side.


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## Deusmaximus (Jan 22, 2020)

I am curious if the use of hgh could help in reducing complications like ops, and accelerating the healing process.
Maybe defrancq is not really the best surgeon for implants, since he is not doing it to often.
Eppley is still nr.1 in this case. Still i will fly to antwerpen for a consultation, just because of the great pricing.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 22, 2020)

*UPDATE 1 (surgeon assessment)*: Alright time for the hardcore and the raw, fk this pleasantville shit.

*What I think about Defrancq: *Defrancq LITERALLY reminds me of the “doctor” -Dr. Solomon from Minority Report (you know the greasy character that hooks Tom Cruise up with his new eyes 👁 👁)





I’m not saying I think he’s a bad guy but he is ECCENTRIC AF! I mean SUPeR goofy (strange mannerisms/quirks) and, he’s constantly “tricky” to converse with (always a delicate dance in conversation: you don’t want to offend him but you want to be very direct) it tapers off but GOD is it fucking annoying *He and I are cool because we both respect how we socially operate now but I can for sure see massive miscommunication being an issue for some.

Side note (but the details I feel are important): office is very messy and unkept (I don’t necessarily think it’s bad if you believe it’s akin to the *Einstein* desk quote: "If a *cluttered desk* is a sign of a *cluttered* mind, of what, then, is an empty *desk*?

I think the above quote nails it and tbh I’m the same way in many respects of organization.

*Surgical aptitude:* I looked inside my mouth and I was little disappointed with the stitching...🧵it looked like sloppy work comparatively speaking to Dr. Y. Who laced up the inside of my mouth like a Louis Vuitton bag 💼 .... Defrancq’s looked like a Chinese designer knock off lol ... 

Personal Hygiene: idk what it is but to me, he’s unpleasant breath (tbh I think it’s a European surgeon things and or he’s quite old). Nails unkept (I don’t expect a manicure but they look chewed up... I let it slide because his profession demands his hands/fingers). 

*Communication, Bias and Idea Transference *💡 You BETTER believe Defrancq has an aesthetic bias that leans towards the softer features of Europe (contrast this with the highly masculine aesthetic culture of America a’la Dr. Y.) 

Defrancq really believes and values idea transference and compromise. For example, you might tell him EXACTLY what you want in the highest detail and he’ll try to rework it to his preference/taste (that didn’t vibe with me so I had to be extremely direct). In fact, the following scenario ensued: 

Defrancq tried to change my mind on the implant design like 2 weeks before surgery, after I already told him and we both agreed, upon my design back in November ... literally he worked up the implant drafts and it was done (good to go into fabrication) ... Then 2 weeks before my surgery date, he sent me this autistic passive aggressive (I’m not trying to change your mind but you should consider type bullshit) with his rendition of my original design that we already agreed upon (he wanted to rework the gonial angles and initially I agreed because I thought it looked a little more natural) but it was just dragging on and on (4 days before surgery! READ THAT AGAIN ......4 DAYS BEFORE MY SURGERY.... Can you believe that!?? Stressed me the FO!!! Anyways, it didn’t meet my aesthetic standards, so I told him directly to go back to my original design and it was done from there. 

However, and unrelated (this is only a small “saving grace) I do like that he seems to appreciate one’s technical ability in surgical prose (he’ll have a real conversation with you as if you were another surgeon, so it’s a cool vibe on that level). Also, in some respects, he seems very down to earth (almost too down, if that makes sense).

Anyways, I also like that we actually had a pre surgical consultation (previous surgeo did no such thing) and really went through the details of how the surgery is going to be executed (poor choice of words ha).

I was even shown my PEEK implants and got to hold each piece while we discussed them (I’m kicking myself for not taking photos and thinking maybe I can right before surgery but they will have been sterilized by then and I don’t want to risk it?). 

The PEEK is SUPER lightweight and the material looks very cool in person. I was surprised by literally how small each piece is. 

***Remember this: your surgeon chooses you just as much as you choose him. There should be a decently, mutual and transparent vibe (don’t EVER forget this) if you’ve problems down the line and your rapport is garbage, consider yourself binned 🗑

*Next update will be the explicit details of my journey thus far*


Solo said:


> Woah, i hope everything turned out to be ok for you
> 
> To answer your question, if you still wanna try again i think its better to remove left side only so there will be less soft tissue damage if you wanna try again, alternatively you can also add filler to the left side.



YOOOO! That fuller idea is PRIMA - Thank you brother

@Solo for LMS Cartel


Deusmaximus said:


> I am curious if the use of hgh could help in reducing complications like ops, and accelerating the healing process.
> Maybe defrancq is not really the best surgeon for implants, since he is not doing it to often.
> Eppley is still nr.1 in this case. Still i will fly to antwerpen for a consultation, just because of the great pricing.



Agree with almost everything you’ve said (HGHexcept for Eppley (I’m emphatically against) would choose Y. ANY day.

Good that you’re going for an in person consultation - should give you everything you need to make an informed decision (pending you ask the appropriate questions and grill him).

By the way, I also think that STEM Cells (the right type) would be advantageous for reducing complications and accelerating healing.


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 22, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> @AlexChase89 anyword on that supplement?



I'm honestly not sure. I doubt it would hurt anything


----------



## Striking resemblance (Jan 22, 2020)

So on top of beeing shady dr Z also has some lesser results on his site. Seeing this dude, one may think its a great change, and yeah it is. However his jaw is to protruted and it has become overprojected. 


https://gesichtschirurgie-berlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/4.jpg




https://gesichtschirurgie-berlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/2.jpg



Dr Defranq on the other hand seems quite deceiving with his results. Here he wants to potray the results pic as it is with these procedures he describes. But anyone whos not retarded can see that there is some major change that can not be a result
of his procedures.








Aesthetic facial surgery - Liposuction & Lipofilling - Dr Joël Defrancq


Dr Joël Defrancq, jaw/orthognatic surgery and full mouth dental implant procedures.




facialsculptureclinic.com


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 22, 2020)

Bottom line is every plastic surgeon or aesthetic oral surgeon is shady/sociopathic to a degree. You just don't become an aesthetic surgeon without being a little predatory.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 23, 2020)

*UPDATE: TIME TO GET ILL *

The REAL and the RAW: stages of blood from incision opening up (which was unbeknownst to me at that time as the reason why) I’m quite certain Defrancq knew the very first time he examined but didn’t mention anything of it .... All I heard was “no no it’s nothing .... this is okay you see it’s normal etc...” YEAH OK .... back when he thought he could tout some blue pulled faggot shit 🌈💁🏻‍♂️ and wouldn’t get verbally smoked for it 🔫🔫🔫 NO it wasn’t fucking normal because there’s a 1/2 cm hole 🕳 on my incision line 🧵 you marica!

This started happening on the second day after surgery and has been continuing with a downward trend ever since (less blood - seroma - residual seroma/blood)


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## anti caking agents (Jan 23, 2020)

Your first period! I am so happy for you! I am happy for your MtF journey! Brave! Couragous! Pioneering!

Downward trend? Then it is getting better?


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 23, 2020)

anti caking agents said:


> Your first period! I am so happy for you! I am happy for your MtF journey! Brave! Couragous! Pioneering!
> 
> Downward trend? Then it is getting better?


^^ haha and It seems so, no spurts like that for a couple days - occasional seroma fluid mixed with saliva.


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## anti caking agents (Jan 23, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ^^ haha and It seems so, no spurts like that for a couple days - occasional seroma fluid mixed with saliva.



Happy for you bro. Praying for your recovery. Wish you only the best to you boyo.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 23, 2020)

This is my favorite blood spatter🩸 lol it literally looks like one of two things:

1. A female 🙎🏻‍♀️(check the breasts), with her hands up, perhaps on fire 🔥 (check the outline) being dragged to hell.

or

2. There’s a nasty face in the middle with a frown that looks evil AF 👿 haha actually if you chop off the top “head”portion and the “arms”, it looks like the face symbol from the 90s hardcore hip hop group ONYX


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## anti caking agents (Jan 23, 2020)

LMFAOO. i love your autism mate. "this is my favorite blood spatter" almost died from laughing while swallowing some almonds.


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## Barbarossa_ (Jan 23, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> View attachment 240035
> 
> This is my favorite blood spatter🩸 lol it literally looks like one of two things:
> 
> ...







Nigga how could you be this funny when you gone through this? Lmao
*I admire your stoicism ngl *
If it was me I would be playing Russian roulette with a 500 magnum kek


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 23, 2020)

The onyx symbol is easy but perhaps the female requires a bit more discernment.

Thus... ...I give you ... Adreno Art by Adreno
(a’la myself, user: Adrenochrome)

@anti caking agents
@Barbarossa_

Thank you and to answer you Barbarossa... positivity my brother. This is part of my catharsis.

Am I not Picasso reincarnated? Ha ha 👨‍🎨 🎨

The meaning of the piece:
As always, it’s up to the viewer to interpret the meaning...

As for myself, seems she’s being consumed and devoured by her sins ( :

*DISCLAIMER*
Adreno Art welcomes you. By viewing the pages of this website, you acknowledge that you have read and accepted these disclaimers and copyrights.

*Copyright © 2020 - All rights reserved*; These images may not be downloaded, copied, linked to, or edited in any manner or form for use on any website, image gallery, clipart collection, printed product, or other derivative uses without express written permission from the *artist/user “Adreno” “Adreno Art”/Adrenochrome *

All viewers should be aware that Copyright of the artworks by user Adrenochrome “Adreno Art” located on this website remain the exclusive property of the Artist.


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## CristianT (Jan 23, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> The onyx symbol is easy but perhaps the female requires a bit more discernment.
> 
> Thus... ...I give you ... Adreno Art
> 
> ...


A piece of art


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 23, 2020)

CristianT said:


> A piece of art



Thank you my brother🙏🏼
PEACE ☮️


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 23, 2020)

It may sound stupid but maybe an outer incision would have been better regarding infection

@EternalLearner even knows a chemical for wound healing (you could use this for your intraoral incision now too)

Maybe try keeping vodka in your mouth area to kill off saliva and bacterias, but do not take my word because I never head surgery


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## CristianT (Jan 24, 2020)

How are thinga there, @Adrenochrome ?


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## Deleted member 3259 (Jan 24, 2020)

I have heard from people that have done surgeries with Defrancq that you spend like a week at their facilities after the surgery to make sure that you don't get an infection, compared to Eppley that will send you away as soon as you wake up lmao.


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## Sal123 (Jan 24, 2020)

honkhonkpatna said:


> I have heard from people that have done surgeries with Defrancq that you spend like a week at their facilities after the surgery to make sure that you don't get an infection, compared to Eppley that will send you away as soon as you wake up lmao.


Exactly that’s the best thing ! Couldn’t cope without their help. Americans god damn money grabbers. @Adrenochrome hope all is ok bro, but I really think you’ll be fine. The reason why dr defrancq may not have told u about the complication may be because he wanted to avoid u becoming stressed, and stress can increase chance of infection . Good luck man


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 24, 2020)

CristianT said:


> How are thinga there, @Adrenochrome ?



Today... ...well today I clashed HARD with Defrancq ... 🤼‍♂️ ⚔ ... metaphorically I murdered him with my words 😱 💀 😱 ...Thy tongue was SHARP 🔪 🔪and dripping with THEE most vitriolic of venom🩸🐍

I just had SO much God damn resentment built up from how everything went down, up until now 🌋 I had to release it and tell him straight up 💯 I exploded 💣 and chopped him up so bad he could have been on unsolved mysteries because there was nothing left of him💀🪓

I couldn’t stop myself ... I just lit him up 🔥🔥🔥 🔫🔫 🔫 and told him everything should have been simple and straightforward but that he chose to complicate things by shaving off that small piece of bone 🦴 and perform more surgery than necessary, that I DID NOT ASK FOR which is why we’re in the situation we’re in now (hole in my fucking mouth and most likely an infection 🦠) i.e. he compromised (fucked up) the entire procedure, my health and aesthetic outcome by making the incredibly dumb decision of shaving off that little piece of bone and I wanted some MOTHER FUCKING ANSWERS

He was SHOOK 👀💧 ... visibly shaking, fidgeting his fingers, standing up... pacing back and forth to different parts of his office and then sitting down... shuffling papers ... reshuffling papers 📖 (Mind you, this all being done in total silence, without saying a word...) it was the ODDEST thing I’ve seen in quite some time but he KNEW he had to answer for his fucking transgressions!

Then... ...then it finally came out ... ....the truth... with his voice stuttering, “I ... I.. I had to shave off that piece of bone you see because if I didn’t, the implant would not fit.”

So my thing is... if that’s the case, then you should have told/informed me BEFORE operating on me because you know what ... I may not have had surgery with you (and I can’t say for sure because I’m not a mind reader 🔮 ) but I think he knew that too and this was part of the reason why he was so evasive/non-descriptive about it (just another reason why I feel like he’s GREASY 🍳🥓)

Another thing is, this (shaving that bone/extra surgery) was NOT in our pre-surgical consultation plan (which is literally written for you, the patient; by whomever is operating on you, the surgeon) i.e. This was NOT written in my pre-surgical consultation plan. His response/excuse to this, was that sometimes you don’t get the full picture from scans etc... and that things are a lot different when you’re working (operating/performing surgery) on the inside of one’s mouth (sometimes you encounter unforeseen situations/scenarios and have to adapt); and he couldn’t ask me for consent in the middle of an operation for these unforeseen things (obviously as I’m “out” from the anesthesia) -honestly, fair enough, no?

Listen... in these situations, I try to give everyone a fair chance at being transparent/honest and Defrancq had multiple opportunities to tell me why he did what he did but he didn’t... (I don’t know if that was from him being deceptive or if it is generally just not in his nature, as in maybe he didn’t think it was important to mention in detail) BUT... something else bothered me ... I distinctly remember that right after waking up from surgery he said this in brief “I had to shave a little bit of bone but everything is okay”... 🤦🏼‍♂️ Why does this bother me?... because after coming to (waking up from anesthesia) one is not at their full cognitive capacity (lethargic, and memory recall is very weak to non-existent etc...) BUT I made sure to remember exactly this because I’ve been in this game long enough to know the tricks of the trade, by those that ply them (it may not have been with malicious intent but it was certainly not honorable to me ...) and this might seem esoteric but it’s analogous to if one were to believe in the New World Order way of things ... i.e. that everything MUST be revealed to you but the way in which it will, can be in any form) So... as in, Defrancq knew he had to tell me about it but chose it in such a way (right after surgery with low memory and cognitive recall to me, the patient) that if it were any other person, they may have easily forgot about it! Oh and by the way, you know I’m getting a copy of that fucking surgical report!!!

With that said, NO ONE is above reproach (especially not these fucking scum bag surgeons with God complexes, that feel they can do whatever they want, without consequence) FUCK THAT ... you’re getting verbally LIT UP and SMOKED 🔥🔥🔥 🔫🔫🔫 💨

METAPHORICALLY, I WILL CHOP UP THE FUCKING WOOD 🪓AND CARVE OUT YOUR COFFIN BEFORE I LAY YOU IN IT ⚰⚰⚰

Obviously... after all of this ... (everything that was said and the way in which it was said) ... his ego was shattered and it looked like his soul had already left his body ⚱ .... I mean really... he looked destroyed ... 🦼... THIS ... this reaction and emotion was his ONLY saving grace as it showed me that he had SOME sincerity in what he said. Did I feel a little bad about how it went down?

Yes ... BUT not really ... tbh ... NOT REALLY TBFH ... here I am ... flight canceled ✈ (money lost 💰🩸) as I’ve to buy a new plane ticket .... DAYS past the date of when I was supposed to go home 🏡 as now it’s looking like I’ll be here for an undetermined amount of time: Read that as more money wasted on hotels 🏨 💰💰💰🩸 (which by the way, I don’t know if it’s a psychological residual from the events that transpired but I can NOT... stand the smell or the food here anymore) I literally order out every day now, sooooo 💰💰💰💰🩸YEP.... you see where I’m headed with this?! ... 💳 CHING! 💳 CHING! 💳 CHING!

PLUS ... (yes there’s more) notwithstanding the fact that ONE side of my implants may very well have to be removed (how can I move through this world with ONE GOD DAMN implant in my face!?) which again = more money for the removal 💰💰💰 (I’m quite certain there’s an anesthesiologist fee), more money for staying here longer 💰💰💰 and of course, the TOTAL RECALL on the recovery period again ... My brothers 🤦🏻‍♂️ ... I’m FUCKING PISSED

Ohh yes ... ....and... (the best part) ...did I forget to mention friends... that I decided to verbally chop his fucking head off right BEFORE he was going to remove and then place new stitches? 🧵 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ YEP ... that actually happened .... I SWEAR TO GOD... I AM A FUCKING MASOCHIST ⛓🩸👺 🩸

Now you know ... ...YOU KNOW.... he was just licking his lips 👄 with the sweet unfortold satisfaction of revenge, that he would SLOWLY dispense upon me thru needle, thread and hook...

I had to put on my Christian Bale, American Psycho Face 🤵🔪 and take every stabbing with that FUCKING fishing hook of a needle, with pleasure 🎣... ...like a young man deflowering his first virgin - as he pierced, not only into my gum line but my also my LIPS ... yes my lips ... lol ...and my teeth ... yes you read that correctly ... my FUCKING FRONT teeth by the way!!!! How the FUCK are you missing the suture line THAT many times ... lol ... I felt bad for his wife if his aim was really this poor irl ... honestly, 🤦🏻‍♂️lol honestly guys ... I was laughing inside ... I really was ... with a BIG FUCKING SMIRK on my face 😏 ... also thinking how beautiful and just revenge was for Defrancq at that moment... how pleasurable it must have been for him...

It was interesting... ... how in the end ... equilibrium prevailed.

Thank you 🧘🏻‍♂️🧘🏻‍♂️🧘🏻‍♂️ I need to ZEN THE FUCK OUT.


📝 *NOTE for everyone*: I AM... cutting this up with my creative writing (while keeping with my factual account/personal experience). So... if clarification or expansion is needed on anything, just shout out and I’ll try to fill in the blanks.

Today‘s write up was more expression of emotion, as to the events of earlier vs straight laced vanilla “show and tell” (this is what happened today etc...)

*Also important*: I think what @AlexChase89 has A LOT of merit regarding post silicone removal residuals in bone spurs 🦴 (irregularities) and also, PEEK as a material being “unforgiving”/more difficult to place etc...

At this moment, I will say (and my feeling is subject to change) that I don’t believe Defrancq has the surgical prowess I previous thought.

With respect to his character (overall and not in the heat of the moment 🔥) ... I will wait and see how he handles everything.

☮


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 24, 2020)

You're losin it bro lol. Was the CT scan used to make the peek implant a recent scan, or was it from before you had your silicone implant? Either way I'm not surprised he had to shave some bone down, PEEK is such an hard unforgiving material that can't be modified intraoperatively, and ct reconstructions are only so accurate and there are always some contour irregularities after silicon implant removal. It's also possible he slightly misplaced one of the pieces but had already secured it, then instead of starting over removed some bone to get the final piece to fit.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 24, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> You're losin it bro lol. Was the CT scan used to make the peek implant a recent scan, or was it from before you had your silicone implant? Either way I'm not surprised he had to shave some bone down, PEEK is such an hard unforgiving material that can't be modified intraoperatively, and ct reconstructions are only so accurate and there are always some contour irregularities after silicon implant removal. It's also possible he slightly misplaced one of the pieces but had already secured it, then instead of starting over removed some bone to get the final piece to fit.



It’s simple man... You just have to take into consideration my last situation (removal) and how tormenting that was, both physically and psychologically; and what I’ve been through (how the aforementioned affected EVERY part of my life) to understand even a small fraction of where I’m coming from now.

if you don’t ... I can’t clarify for you any further 🤷🏻‍♂️ in-fact, I don’t expect you to understand me actually because you’ve not been through what I have.

Regarding your sentiment on PEEK and silicone removal etc, I do tend to agree with you.

If everything turns out positive, I’ll EAT MY WORDS... with pleasure.


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 24, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It’s simple man... You just have to take into consideration my last situation (removal) and how tormenting that was, both physically and psychologically; and what I’ve been through (how the aforementioned affected EVERY part of my life) to understand even a small fraction of where I’m coming from now.
> 
> if you don’t ... I can’t clarify for you any further 🤷🏻‍♂️ in-fact, I don’t expect you to understand me actually because you’ve not been through what I have.
> 
> ...



Hang in there bro, we're pullin for ya


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## Dutcher (Jan 24, 2020)

Holy fuck what a roller coaster

Telling you bro should have gone to eppley and gotten custom silicon


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 24, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Hang in there bro, we're pullin for ya



Thank you man 💯 ... sending electronic bro hug 🤗

*If I’m out of line, I know you’ll let me know (I appreciate that you inserted some factual logic and mentioned my reaction seemed a little “deep end”) -vibe I got was a’la Norman Bates lol

📝 NOTE for everyone: I AM... cutting this up with my creative writing (while keeping with my factual account/personal experience). So... if clarification or expansion is needed on anything, just shout out and I’ll try to fill in the blanks.

Today‘s write up was more expression of emotion, as to the events of earlier vs straight laced vanilla “show and tell” (this is what happened today etc...) 

☮️


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## CristianT (Jan 24, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It’s simple man... You just have to take into consideration my last situation (removal) and how tormenting that was, both physically and psychologically; and what I’ve been through (how the aforementioned affected EVERY part of my life) to understand even a small fraction of where I’m coming from now.
> 
> if you don’t ... I can’t clarify for you any further 🤷🏻‍♂️ in-fact, I don’t expect you to understand me actually because you’ve not been through what I have.
> 
> ...


Fuck after reading this im not so sure I would even want to go to consultation with him in London...He looks sloppy and slow... Damn man Im feeling so bad for you bcs I see that you are trying so fucking hard to ascened and these mfkers surgeons are doing a second hand job and they are lying straight to your face...


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 24, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Fuck after reading this im not so sure I would even want to go to consultation with him in London...He looks sloppy and slow... Damn man Im feeling so bad for you bcs I see that you are trying so fucking hard to ascened and these mfkers surgeons are doing a second hand job and they are lying straight to your face...



At this point, I feel like he’s sloppy too but I won’t say, “don’t consult with him” ... just be cognizant of what I mentioned in surgical dexterity.

Equally if not more important, check YOUR vibe with him... He and I understand each other but it’s always a delicate dance and I’ve no patience for it anymore.

Also, I am EXTREMELY harsh with character judgement (with anybody) ... so again, check your wavelength with him (could be a “me” thing)

Regarding your last sentiment ... thank you for your kindness man 💯 (I appreciate your support brother) although don’t feel bad for me (I will ascend but it seems I have to be more patient than I thought... that’s the hardest part ...) You will ascend too and maybe you can streamline it by learning from the experiences of those like me.

Electronic bro hug 🤗

☮


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## Sal123 (Jan 25, 2020)

bro has the blood spitting stopped? what are your plans now i pray u don't need to get them removed


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 25, 2020)

Sal123 said:


> bro has the blood spitting stopped? what are your plans now i pray u don't need to get them removed



Thanks very much brother 🙏🏼 - just seroma but he stitched up the area 🧵 and I’m on Antis until next week... then we will see (too early to say anything now)

*dropped you a reply on your thread (very sorry to hear about this but at least there’s no functional issue)


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## eetfuk (Jan 25, 2020)

All of this just to be accepted by women. You can’t win as an incel. Also, thanks for reminding me how terrible of an idea it is to screw a foreign object into your skull. You’re taking one for the team brother 💯💯💯


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 25, 2020)

eetfuk said:


> All of this just to be accepted by women. You can’t win as an incel. Also, thanks for reminding me how terrible of an idea it is to screw a foreign object into your skull. You’re taking one for the team brother 💯💯💯



My man, I’m so sorry you got it SUPER TWISTED! If you actually read my thread, you would see that I stated emphatically; that I have NOTHING to do with the incel movement -I’m STRICTLY AESTHETIC.

JFL at doing ANYTHING, let alone surgery, for a pair of legs 🦵🦵


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## eetfuk (Jan 25, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> My man, I’m so sorry you got it SUPER TWISTED! If you actually read my thread, you would see that I stated emphatically; that I have NOTHING to do with the incel movement -I’m STRICTLY AESTHETIC.
> 
> JFL at doing ANYTHING, let alone surgery, for a pair of legs 🦵🦵



That’s fine man, you don’t have to explain yourself to me.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 25, 2020)

eetfuk said:


> That’s fine man, you don’t have to explain yourself to me.



it’s cool man ☮️ it’s over for me anyways. 

@ all my brothers... fk ... I don’t know what to do anymore, just woke up and I’m spitting up massive amounts of blood ) : 

WTF guys!!


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## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 25, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> it’s cool man ☮️ it’s over for me anyways.
> 
> @ all my brothers... fk ... I don’t know what to do anymore, just woke up and I’m spitting up massive amounts of blood ) :
> 
> WTF guys!!



How long post op are you now? Is it still fresh red blood or stagnant brown/black?


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## crosshold (Jan 25, 2020)

again, hope you recover well man


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 25, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> How long post op are you now? Is it still fresh red blood or stagnant brown/black?


Fresh red (10 days post)


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## CristianT (Jan 25, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Fresh red (10 days post)


Oh my god brother..😔things are not looking good there.. fuck.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 26, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Oh my god brother..😔things are not looking good there.. fuck.



I knowwwww mannnn wtf .. like seriously ... nothing in this fucking life is straightforward... NOTHING.


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## Linoob (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> I knowwwww mannnn wtf .. like seriously ... nothing in this fucking life is straightforward... NOTHING.



The best part is how guys like @Sal123 just rock up and say "I'll have one jaw implant plz" then take off like nothing happened. Little to no complications.

Yet guys like you develop a solid battle plan over the course of years and still get rolled.

Murphy's law, bro.

I'll document my journey too, when the time is right.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 26, 2020)

Linoob said:


> The best part is how guys like @Sal123 just rock up and say "I'll have one jaw implant plz" then take off like nothing happened. Little to no complications.
> 
> Yet guys like you develop a solid battle plan over the course of years and still get rolled.
> 
> ...



THI$ ... this is the shit that gets me .... 🤦🏻‍♂️


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## Linoob (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> THI$ ... this is the shit that gets me .... 🤦🏻‍♂️



the only way your shit could've gone worse is it if happened in china, lol


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 26, 2020)

Linoob said:


> the only way your shit could've gone worse is it if happened in china, lol



lol haha😂

YO! In the same vein: That situation in China is scarrrryyyyyy .... there are literally fumigation trucks barreling down the streets spraying anti-viral gas (YouTube that!)

People laying dead in the streets and being quarantined in mini pods 💀

TBH I’m worried about traveling back home through international airports: don’t want to come into contact with ANY Chinese or ANYONE who has been in that country.


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## Linoob (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> lol haha😂
> 
> YO! In the same vein: That situation in China is scarrrryyyyyy .... there are literally fumigation trucks barreling down the streets spraying anti-viral gas (YouTube that!)
> 
> ...



jesus fucking christ


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 26, 2020)

Linoob said:


> jesus fucking christ



Yaaa it’s bad.


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## CristianT (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Yaaa it’s bad.


When you need to decide if you want to remove your implants or not? Did Defrancq mentioned anything?


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## ibetucnt (Jan 26, 2020)

why not go for fillers ?


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## Deusmaximus (Jan 26, 2020)

ibetucnt said:


> why not go for fillers ?


You ned 10/20s of ml for a solid jawline result. Costs a fortune all 6 months, and a wraparound jaw implant result will still mog brutally.


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## Linoob (Jan 26, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> You ned 10/20s of ml for a solid jawline result. Costs a fortune all 6 months, and a wraparound jaw implant result will still mog brutally.



Nah bro, lol.

5-7mls is heaps for just one side of his jaw.


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## CopingCel (Jan 26, 2020)

Linoob said:


> Nah bro, lol.
> 
> 5-7mls is heaps for just one side of his jaw.



Dr zack ally always writes under his before after pics how much he used for everything together (chin, both jaw sides). Most i've seen was 12ml


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## Agentof Evolution (Jan 26, 2020)

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you go with Zarrinbal?


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## Deusmaximus (Jan 26, 2020)

Agentof Evolution said:


> Just out of curiosity, why didn't you go with Zarrinbal?


Because defrancq is one of the only few (i think the only one in europe) surgeons that does wraparound jaw implants.


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Today... ...well today I clashed HARD with Defrancq ... 🤼‍♂️ ⚔ ... metaphorically I murdered him with my words 😱 💀 😱 ...Thy tongue was SHARP 🔪 🔪and dripping with THEE most vitriolic of venom🩸🐍
> 
> I just had SO much God damn resentment built up from how everything went down, up until now 🌋 I had to release it and tell him straight up 💯 I exploded 💣 and chopped him up so bad he could have been on unsolved mysteries because there was nothing left of him💀🪓
> 
> ...



*IMPORTANT*: *I’ve made a MASSIVE MISTAKE regarding Defrancq’s character and I wish to redact the aforesaid post*.

I want to clarify, to give a better balance and proper overall perspective for those that are cosidering surgery with him.

*Would I recommend that you have surgery with Defrancq?* It’s not my place to tell you with respect to such a serious matter (you’ll have to use your own discernment I.e. from consulting and first hand accounts such as this one, to draw your own conclusions).

Would I recommend that you consult with Defrancq? *Absolutely yes.*

Listen... at the moment I made the post above (I was NOT in a good place) TB100%H (if it wasn’t already painfully obvious), I’m a bit “broken” from my past experience with removal (literally losing EVERYTHING) it was traumatic and the residual effects will probably affect me for the rest of my life.

This, in combination with JUST coming out of surgery, and THEN... being on the brink of experiencing the EXACT same situation again (less the loss of all things attached to my life, as they’re already gone), pushed me over the edge so to speak (enough to metaphorically chop off Defrancq’s head with the blade of my tongue) and it feels bad man... 🤦🏻‍♂️ (normally I am quite reserved and would not dismantle someone like that unless I felt betrayed... which at the moment I did due to lack of details/information) but Defrancq didn’t deserve that and you guys deserve an impartial review.

*So... to the point and the update that led me to revise my frame of reference on Defrancq: 

....THERE IS... ....STILL HOPE .... 

YES, I couldn’t believe it myself and was just SO damn relieved and happy today *(few weights off the shoulders & still have a dog in this fight)


A few posts ago, I told you guys that I woke up spitting some seriously FRESH *RED* blood 🩸 it was 2am, Sunday morning and obviously Defrancq was sleeping i.e. I’m totally on my own here, bleeding profusely - The only thing I can think is that the hole inside my mouth opened up again (remember that Defrancq stitched it up) So I swirled that sweet AWFUL mouth wash for a good 20 minutes and the blood seemed to taper down but was still seeping out (nothing else I could do) - already took my A/B’s and I NEEDED to get some sleep so that my body (inside of my mouth) could repair itself.

Tried to Zzz and I got maybe 4 hours total but FUCK... GUYS... the taste of blood/plasma running down your throat constantly... ....IT.... .... WAS ....TORTURE... 🤢🤢🤢🩸🩸🩸

Anyways, it wasn’t until around 11:30AM that Defrancq came through to check me out (BRUTAL) and even though it’s a surgeon’s duty to care for their patient (think 24 hours on call etc... not literally but you get the point ... you are under their care/supervision) ....SO MUCH respect for him to come in on his off time.... ....a Sunday (a day reserved for family) in fact, he brought one of his daughter’s with him (super nice girl) *You would think that after the way things went down and how I behaved, that the last person you would bring around a patient like me, would be your daughter.

Equally if not more important, Defranq has been coming to see me EVERYDAY (each day, either morning or late evening) the only day he couldn’t come was Saturday. Moreover, these checkups are not simple 5-10 minute “just coming to see if you look okay” NO ... he is actually thoroughly examining the inside of mouth and we’re discussing EVERYTHING in detail for a good 20-30 minutes (This is strictly speaking of the medical side of his care, we’re not even talking about the interesting conversations we have that in total, run for about an hour) . That’s AWESOME!

*NOTE*: Dr. Y (as much as I like him) gave me 2 minutes tops ... I kid you not (each time), I flew to see him just for a checkup -had to wait 30 minutes past my appointment time and was seen for 2 minutes .... 2 minutes.... and in that time he looked in my mouth, told me I was fine and sent me on my way ... I was back a week later for complete removal of my jaw implant .... what the fuck is that!?


....*THE EXAMINATION*....

So after Defrancq checked me out, he found that the hole did NOT in fact open up (that he could see) but that there were actually a lot of food particles (debris) trapped in a deep pocket (not super deep but a crevice that is difficult to get to i.e. clean out). So, he syringed to irrigate it and got out all of the debris (lots of small pieces) FOR SURE this is what was making me bleed so bad because as soon as all of the debris was out, I felt INSTANT relief (no pressure) and the bleeding stopped just like that.

OKAY so cool... I still have a shot at this...

* ....MY FATE.... *

I will know this Wednesday

Defrancq went on to tell me that regarding the hole that was stitched up, as it heals, there is a possibility that a fistula forms (an abnormal connection between two hollow spaces; technically, two epithelialized surfaces such as blood vessels, intestines, or other hollow organs.) He said that he’s seen this in several of his patients (there’s even one on his website now) but that they all made it through (with time) could be weeks-months for the fistula to dissolve on its own/or be removed (cut out). He then went on to say that normally, he would let it be (as mentioned above) but that if there was this fistula formation, he would remove the implant because I live too far away to monitor and take care of it. Wednesday he’ll let me know the verdict...

* ....MORE ON DEFRANCQ....*

Post examination we literally just had some really good and interesting conversation about different topics (his family, thoughts on religion and life, history of Belgium and I kid you not... IQ.... mind you, this all came up naturally and he mentioned IQ first .... THAT was really cool to me).

NOTE: all the aforementioned things also happened pre-meltdown too (not just post) i.e. we were always cohesive but I just couldn’t pin-point his character at that time: didn’t know if he was sincere or slightly psychopathic (deceiving, manipulative etc...) and playing the part like almost all surgeons do.

So here’s what I think (and I’ve said this before in my initial post I.e. thread starter) Defrancq is extremely eccentric... to the point where if you didn’t know a little about him, you would be constantly second guessing if you made the right choice and might build resentment against him (Citizens of Burgerland might have the most difficulty with discernment here).

He’s clumsy and a bit goofy for sure (not what you would expect a surgeon to be like)... For example, he’ll occasionally run into things or in my case; he knocked his head on the surgical light lol .... he even showed up a couple times with his fly down lol .... things like this might make you think, “Really? ... am I making good choices for myself... lol”.

Appearance (clothing) is a bit shabby and messy/unkept (surgical coat dirty sometimes) and you will NOT catch Defrancq in a three piece executive suite like Dr. Y.

Also, as I mentioned previously, office is cluttered and a little dusty lol ... I could see dust particles in the air...

I mean, me coming from Dr. Y who is Alpha AF in his 007 tuxedo, with his mansion of an office in marble .... to this odd future character, was the absolute anthesis of what I was used to.... I literally could not process ... (I really do think I have some form of Stockholm syndrome for Y)

But I digress ... Defrancq is a sweetheart, really just a pleasant (although slightly strange) individual, who will go ABOVE and BEYOND to take care of you in all respects... (It REALLY weighs on him because he cares I.e. he will not allow himself to fail you) ... it’s that simple.

Surgical ability... I mentioned before that I thought he was sloppy but this is NOT the case. My mind was framed that way because I did not understand the situation in its entirety, nor the method to his madness. Now that I’ve the full details, I can see and appreciate the larger picture, so to speak. Also, that bit about his stitching was true lol (stabbing me multiple times in 3 different areas) but ... his suture line is TIGHT (I mistakenly referenced the temporary stitches that were put in before they were removed for the complete re-lining process). Now Defrancq has my suture line like a Gucci bag 💼

NOTE: there are large cultural differences (Belgium) and also that Defranq is Dutch/Flemish. There will probably be some idiosyncrasies that you don’t quite appreciate until you really get to know him.

☮ PEACE


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *IMPORTANT*: *I’ve made a MASSIVE MISTAKE regarding Defrancq’s character and I wish to redact the aforesaid post*.
> 
> I want to clarify, to give a better balance and proper overall perspective for those that are cosidering surgery with him.
> 
> ...



So now that you've had a chance to compare the overall quality of care you received over a long-term basis from both Dr. Y and Dr. Defrancq, would you go as far as to actually advise someone to not have surgery with Dr. Y? Do you feel like Dr. Y was dismissive of your initial concerns that you might have an infection?


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Dr. Y (as much as I like him) gave me 2 minutes tops ... I kid you not (each time), I flew to see him just for a checkup -had to wait 30 minutes past my appointment time and was seen for 2 minutes .... 2 minutes.... and in that time he looked in my mouth, told me I was fine and sent me on my way ... I was back a week later for complete removal of my jaw implant .... what the fuck is that!?



Definitely not exclusive to Dr Y. This is my exact experience with every surgeon (in America). I'd fly in for a checkup, spend hundreds of dollars getting/staying there, and they'd be in and out in under 5 minutes. Literally. Out of curiosity, exactly how old is Defrancq?


----------



## Deusmaximus (Jan 26, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Definitely not exclusive to Dr Y. This is my exact experience with every surgeon (in America). I'd fly in for a checkup, spend hundreds of dollars getting/staying there, and they'd be in and out in under 5 minutes. Literally. Out of curiosity, exactly how old is Defrancq?


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 26, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> View attachment 245222



I meant his exact age. Can't tell if he's in his 60s or 70+


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## Deusmaximus (Jan 26, 2020)

I found a wraparound jaw implant result that was done with an outside incision. The scar is really not big of a deal, when you can avoid complications like op has.


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Jan 26, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> I found a wraparound jaw implant result that was done with an outside incision. The scar is really not big of a deal, when you can avoid complications like op has.
> 
> 
> View attachment 245240
> ...



That's a submental incision for the chin component, not an external incision under the mandibular angles. 

Also, there are a few surgeons who actually place jaw implants from an incision under the chin by dissecting back along the mandible endoscopically, but Dhir isn't one of them.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 27, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> Definitely not exclusive to Dr Y. This is my exact experience with every surgeon (in America). I'd fly in for a checkup, spend hundreds of dollars getting/staying there, and they'd be in and out in under 5 minutes. Literally. Out of curiosity, exactly how old is Defrancq?



Doesn’t surprise me man and regarding his age, I don’t know exactly but I’m for sure throwing up 7s ... I’ll low key inquire today when I see him.


Deusmaximus said:


> View attachment 245222


That photo always makes me laugh 😂 like Dr. Solomon mixed with some godfather vibe - “Don Defrancq” ... which is only half of the equation regarding his character lol I.e. super out of place but something he would do ... the uggo on the far right definitely doesn’t want to kiss the Don’s Dome haha


SurgerySoon said:


> So now that you've had a chance to compare the overall quality of care you received over a long-term basis from both Dr. Y and Dr. Defrancq, would you go as far as to actually advise someone to not have surgery with Dr. Y? Do you feel like Dr. Y was dismissive of your initial concerns that you might have an infection?



I can’t advise you on who to have or not have surgery with. 

I’ve given you guys plenty of information based on MY personal experience, for your own discernment.

What I can say, is that Y was my original surgeon and I could have gone back to him for the fraction of the cost but I chose Defrancq.... maybe that says something in and of itself.


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## CopingCel (Jan 27, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> I found a wraparound jaw implant result that was done with an outside incision. The scar is really not big of a deal, when you can avoid complications like op has.
> 
> 
> View attachment 245240
> ...



I have a scar there anyway due to an accident in the past. Do you know whether you can cut open a scar again and use it for that purpose?


----------



## Linoob (Jan 27, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> I found a wraparound jaw implant result that was done with an outside incision. The scar is really not big of a deal, when you can avoid complications like op has.
> 
> 
> View attachment 245240
> ...



Negative.

This scar was there from a previous chin implant, plus it was needed to be reopened in order to accomodate the new jaw implant.

This jaw implant was inserted via 2 x intraoral openings.

In saying that, it is possible to create 2 x extraoral openings, but they reside on either side below the gonial angle.

Again, the scar is minimal and I think this is something we should ALL be opting for. For fucks sake.


----------



## CristianT (Jan 27, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *IMPORTANT*: *I’ve made a MASSIVE MISTAKE regarding Defrancq’s character and I wish to redact the aforesaid post*.
> 
> I want to clarify, to give a better balance and proper overall perspective for those that are cosidering surgery with him.
> 
> ...


I'm having in 31 January consultation with him. Can't wait to see what he is going to recommend for my ugly face, lol.


----------



## Linoob (Jan 27, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *IMPORTANT*: *I’ve made a MASSIVE MISTAKE regarding Defrancq’s character and I wish to redact the aforesaid post*.
> 
> I want to clarify, to give a better balance and proper overall perspective for those that are cosidering surgery with him.
> 
> ...



It's extremely easy to lose confidence/trust/rapport with your surgeon when they catch you off guard like he did you.

It can sometimes be irreparable.

At this point the only way it can be repaired is if the ends justify the means.

Shitty feeling though, because it's not as simple as just walking away and finding another surgeon when you're this invested.

You just gotta ride it out and hope they put their money where their mouth is.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 27, 2020)

Linoob said:


> It's extremely easy to lose confidence/trust/rapport with your surgeon when they catch you off guard like he did you.
> 
> It can sometimes be irreparable.
> 
> ...



EXACTLY - Aces as Always Brother


CristianT said:


> I'm having in 31 January consultation with him. Can't wait to see what he is going to recommend for my ugly face, lol.



I’m excited for you Brother and hope you can get some recommendations that vibe with you.

*I know how it goes with being your own worst critic (I’ve extreme BDD) while also maintaining perspective - Point being, even if you feel ugly on the outside bra, you’ve got killer LQQKS in your soul man 💯

Here’s to ascending 🥃🥃 Cheers

-Sicario Status


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Jan 27, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> EXACTLY - Aces as Always Brother
> 
> 
> I’m excited for you Brother and hope you can get some recommendations that vibe with you.
> ...


Hands down you have the best personality I have ever seen. Not only on this forum but in the fucking world man!
If bitches were into personality you would be a giga slayer


----------



## Deusmaximus (Jan 27, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> Hands down you have the best personality I have ever seen. Not only on this forum but in the fucking world man!
> If bitches were into personality you would be a giga slayer


Is this op on the picture??


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Jan 27, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> Is this op on the picture??


Lol no but he reminds me of a very chill hippy called Matt Graham


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 27, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> Hands down you have the best personality I have ever seen. Not only on this forum but in the fucking world man!
> If bitches were into personality you would be a giga slayer



😳 ... speechless bro, thank you for that HUGE compliment 💯 

You’ve got that Giga Slayer Personality too! No question bra! 🗡

This is the new movement... keep the blade sharp 🔪 ✨ but NEVER point the blade towards thy brother ⚔️ -we (looksmaxxers) should all be supporting each other, just as those in this thread do... 

Never thought I’d see or experience this type of energy on a PSL forum but its beautiful. 

I still like and want that RAW energy from L’ism 2015-2016 era but band together, instead of consuming one another -fuck the outsiders 💯 (Which is ironic, as it’s the opposite of this forum i.e. posting dictionary’s of prose for the public to exploit, no privacy options etc...) 

Anyways, one step at a time aye ( : 

....LMS CARTEL...

@Barbarossa -sicario status 📿 🤝 🩸

@CristianT -sicario status 📿 🤝 🩸


----------



## Usum (Jan 27, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> YO! In the same vein: That situation in China is scarrrryyyyyy .... there are literally fumigation trucks barreling down the streets spraying anti-viral gas (YouTube that!)
> People laying dead in the streets and being quarantined in mini pods 💀


WTF are you talking about ????


----------



## Deleted member 3259 (Jan 27, 2020)

What has happened with Defrancq thats the issue? Give me a TLDR, saw you spazz out on page 3 or 4 and not gonna read all that shit.


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Jan 28, 2020)

honkhonkpatna said:


> What has happened with Defrancq thats the issue? Give me a TLDR, saw you spazz out on page 3 or 4 and not gonna read all that shit.


Go read all his posts on this thread you lazy fuck at least give him that much respect for sharing his experience and staying strong.

Don’t act like you have something better to do JFL


----------



## CristianT (Jan 28, 2020)

honkhonkpatna said:


> What has happened with Defrancq thats the issue? Give me a TLDR, saw you spazz out on page 3 or 4 and not gonna read all that shit.


At least have some respect towards the guy who put so much time and thinking into what he wrote above. Bish.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 28, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> Go read all his posts on this thread you lazy fuck at least give him that much respect for sharing his experience and staying strong.
> 
> Don’t act like you have something better to do JFL





CristianT said:


> At least have some respect towards the guy who put so much time and thinking into what he wrote above. Bish.



EXACTLY ... if reading is too taxing then get fucking rekted & dip from the thread. I don’t have story book pictures for the other half of you peasants either.

Sicario Status in effect: 🔥🔥🔥🔫🔫🔫 💨
@Barbarossa_ 
@CristianT 

^^ Shout out to my boys 🤵🏻🤵🏼 📿🩸


----------



## Linoob (Jan 28, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> 😳 ... speechless bro, thank you for that HUGE compliment 💯
> 
> You’ve got that Giga Slayer Personality too! No question bra! 🗡
> 
> ...



This dude said it.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 28, 2020)

Linoob said:


> This dude said it.



@Linoob - another sicario (one of the original) and already honored -don’t want to reveal your other name, so now it’s official on .ME

-sicario status 📿 🤝 🩸


----------



## Linoob (Jan 28, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> @Linoob - another sicario (one of the original) and already honored -don’t want to reveal your other name, so now it’s official on .ME
> 
> -sicario status 📿 🤝 🩸



👊💖


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

UPDATE: Defrancq saw me yesterday and pushed back my “day of reckoning” from today (Wed.) until Monday 😱 ... 

I’ll stop my A/Bs on Friday, he’ll check me out on Sunday or Monday and then give me the green light to go home or surgery for removal.

Until then I’m just Netflixin hard and penning some blood Art 🖼 🩸


----------



## highT (Jan 29, 2020)

I have read every post in this thread and I’ve been wishing you the best of luck for you since the beginning. Been rooting for you ever since I first saw this thread. I hope you overcome this complication and have a safe recovery. With everything you’ve been through, you absolutely deserve it. This surgeon sounds like a good guy overall and he is doing everything in his power to make this happen for you. Stay positive!


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

highT said:


> I have read every post in this thread and I’ve been wishing you the best of luck for you since the beginning. Been rooting for you ever since I first saw this thread. I hope you overcome this complication and have a safe recovery. With everything you’ve been through, you absolutely deserve it. This surgeon sounds like a good guy overall and he is doing everything in his power to make this happen for you. Stay positive!



That means a lot brother... 🙏🏼 today I’m a bit down (don’t know what to expect and I’m sick of being at this clinic -over 10 days now) but your words have inspired, so thank you for that -much appreciated ☮️ 

Another sicario @highT 📿 🤝 🩸


----------



## ThisLifeKillsMe (Jan 29, 2020)

That's why I won't get implants

People always say

Muh less invasive 

Muh less pain

Muh less cost

I wouldn't settle for anything less than titanium implants


----------



## CristianT (Jan 29, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> That means a lot brother... 🙏🏼 today I’m a bit down (don’t know what to expect and I’m sick of being at this clinic -over 10 days now) but your words have inspired, so thank you for that -much appreciated ☮
> 
> Another sicario @highT 📿 🤝 🩸



Sheesh... not bueno man... he extended the duration.. :/

You have to pay these extra days because you stay in the clinic, right? :/


----------



## Papal_Guard (Jan 29, 2020)




----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Sheesh... not bueno man... he extended the duration.. :/
> 
> You have to pay these extra days because you stay in the clinic, right? :/



More of a better safe than sorry situation but yeah they’re charging me the extra stay which is lame but understandable .... you’re getting location (surgeon on call 24/7 when not operating), literally every channel in the world + Netflix, YouTube, internet etc..., all meals prepared for you (even tho I eat out), laundry service, cleaning service for your room each day for 160 euro 💶 (it’s reasonable) 

*note that if you have surgery with Defrancq, that your room rate in your proposal will be much less (mine was 60 euro a night) for 1 week (all patients normally stay only 1 week) so not bad at all.

I’m just sick of the smell (hospital/clinic type smell) and in general just sick of being here so I’m gonna dip to a different locale.


Papal_Guard said:


> View attachment 247824


Lol what is this... looks like windows 95


----------



## Britsky (Jan 29, 2020)

Hey man! I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm actually getting a wraparound with Defrancq this summer, so reading your experience is making me pretty nervous to say the least.


----------



## freeone12 (Jan 29, 2020)

How much you paid for peek?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

Britsky said:


> Hey man! I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm actually getting a wraparound with Defrancq this summer, so reading your experience is making me pretty nervous to say the least.



Don’t be nervous, look at my PEEK scans and you can see I had LARGE horizontal augmentation (like 9 and 13 mm I believe) that’s HUGE -keep in mind that mm’s are MILES on the face... 

That, and the material itself is MUCH more inflexible than silicone; so the work done is more intensive and the inscision lines are larger.

Furthermore, I had more invasive work done as there was a bone spur shaved too ... you see where I’m going with this? (Not your typical case).

*Interesting side note 📝: I for sure heard about your case from Defrancq (not the explicit details but in general) and if I’m not mistaken, you were going to get it done sooner but pushed it back to Summer because you wanted more time to think about it?

I also saw someone’s (a girl I believe) custom zygomatic (cheek) PEEK implants in a bag (looked interesting).

Doubly interesting: I asked Defrancq if he receives many revision cases from silicone and he said absolutely yes, what’s more; the first surgeon he mentioned he sees revision cases from is Eppley! (I should mention he was very hesitant to say who but I basically grilled HARD). 

*Also worth mentioning, Defrancq doesn’t do medpor removal unless it’s under 1 year and even then ... it’s subject to case by case basis.

Anyways, my guy... if you want any tips on your stay there (if you do have surgery) then just let me know (I’ve got PROPER takeout places to get GOOD eats while you’re on a soft diet) -you might like the food there but I couldn’t do it anymore after like 2 days...

☮


----------



## CristianT (Jan 29, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Don’t be nervous, look at my PEEK scans and you can see I had LARGE horizontal augmentation (like 9 and 13 mm I believe) that’s HUGE -keep in mind that mm’s are MILES on the face...
> 
> That, and the material itself is MUCH more inflexible than silicone; so the work done is more intensive and the inscision lines are larger.
> 
> ...


I cant freaking wait for all of this madness to end and you heal up properly so we can see the results.😎

Hopefully you will have a happy ending.

And yea.. those implants are freaking huge... whaaaaaatt. You went all IN.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

Ah those scans didn’t have my measurements, my bad- but the horizontal width is large and actually, SLIGHTLY less than my silicone measurements.

*Keep in mind, measurements and mms for implant design all depend on YOUR phenotype i.e. what might be massive for many, is perfect for someone like myself.

Design for your pheno in mind gentleman.


*Found one of my original Silicone Scans*


----------



## ThisLifeKillsMe (Jan 29, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> View attachment 245222


Looks like a promotion picture for a porn movie lol


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## Linoob (Jan 29, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Don’t be nervous, look at my PEEK scans and you can see I had LARGE horizontal augmentation (like 9 and 13 mm I believe) that’s HUGE -keep in mind that mm’s are MILES on the face...
> 
> That, and the material itself is MUCH more inflexible than silicone; so the work done is more intensive and the inscision lines are larger.
> 
> ...



Revisions from Eppley, the man who is supposed to be the silicone wrap around king.

Interesting....


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

Linoob said:


> Revisions from Eppley, the man who is supposed to be the silicone wrap around king.
> 
> Interesting....



Right... indeed interesting, although for sure Eppley has some satisfied clients? (Despite all of his misgivings) -I know of one on this very forum but he got banned and ghosted shortly after, unless under a different alias now (he seemed satisfied). Don’t get it twisted though... I wouldn’t (personally) recommend him. 

🔑 The key being and a distinguishing characteristic between good and great surgeons, is what those surgeons do when things go wrong ... how do they handle the situation and will they do EVERYTHING in their capacity to rectify the situation (whatever that might be).

Regardless of if removal is needed or not, Defrancq has thus far proven to be the latter (a great surgeon).


----------



## Linoob (Jan 29, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Right... indeed interesting, although for sure Eppley has some satisfied clients? (Despite all of his misgivings) -I know of one on this very forum but he got banned and ghosted shortly after, unless under a different alias now (he seemed satisfied). Don’t get it twisted though... I wouldn’t (personally) recommend him.
> 
> 🔑 The key being and a distinguishing characteristic between good and great surgeons, is what those surgeons do when things go wrong ... how do they handle the situation and will they do EVERYTHING in their capacity to rectify the situation (whatever that might be).
> 
> Regardless of if removal is needed or not, Defrancq has thus far proven to be the latter (a great surgeon).



Great points bro, can't disagree

Who was the user ?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

Linoob said:


> Great points bro, can't disagree
> 
> Who was the user ?


Zuzzcel or something I believe


----------



## Britsky (Jan 29, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Don’t be nervous, look at my PEEK scans and you can see I had LARGE horizontal augmentation (like 9 and 13 mm I believe) that’s HUGE -keep in mind that mm’s are MILES on the face...
> 
> That, and the material itself is MUCH more inflexible than silicone; so the work done is more intensive and the inscision lines are larger.
> 
> ...



I did originally want to get it done in March, but I was too slow to get back to them after he sent me his proposal.

I was planning on getting regular jaw angle implants, but he recommended that I get a wraparound. That meant my appearance was going to change considerably more than I first anticipated, so I had to be sure!
Unfortunately, the next available date that worked for me was not till June! 

I've already put the deposit down and he has commissioned aviant to start designing the implant. I'm curious, when Defrancq sends me the designs will I actually be able to see what I will look like with all my tissue/muscle/skin in place? Or will he literally just send me a picture of the implants on my skull like the image you uploaded above? 

And yeah I'd definitely love some recommendations with regard to food, I have a feeling I'll get sick of that hospital shit pretty quickly!


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## Adrenochrome (Jan 29, 2020)

Nice that you’re on your way brother, I am happy and excited for you man!



Britsky said:


> I've already put the deposit down and he has commissioned aviant to start designing the implant. I'm curious, when Defrancq sends me the designs will I actually be able to see what I will look like with all my tissue/muscle/skin in place? Or will he literally just send me a picture of the implants on my skull like the image you uploaded above?



The latter BUT you should receive detailed scans with all measurements, dimensions and views etc...

***NOTE: Defrancq has a strong aesthetic bias (softer features and he’ll say “natural”) ... so ... if you’ve a design in mind already, you’re going to have to push HARD to get your way unless you’re leaving it up to him (if that’s the case, then I would expect results like the ones you see on his website ...)

He values the transference of ideas ... or at least try’s to convey this sentient (i.e. he really likes/wants to feel like part of the design process instead of just being the means to an end -insert your design and finished).

I got you covered man, just PM when the time is near/or whenever you want and I’ll hook you up with some of my favorites.

****I also want to say, that along with the strange smell there (in general) the water (especially the hot water) smells really strange... idk it was sketchy to me (made me feel ill to smell even a hint of it) -just be aware

I’m glad to be in a new locale now -dipped from the clinic and got a proper place (huge room, high ceilings, balcony etc...) much better to recover in.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 30, 2020)

Small update: Saw Defrancq today and HE SAYS that the hole is closed, nurse who was in the OR on my case also confirmed (which is excellent) and that we couldn’t be in a better position (some fluid still and they are not sure where it’s coming from but Defrancq says he’s not at all concerned about it). 

So.... now the plan is: no more compression garment from tomorrow on, except for perhaps nighttime ... up to me (he said that he felt strongly the compression helped my situation thus far).

Kill A/B’s on Saturday afternoon and he’ll see me for his final evaluation on Monday 🤞🏼🙏🏼


----------



## Joyride (Jan 30, 2020)

good luck with recovery. we're rooting for you


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 30, 2020)

Joyride said:


> good luck with recovery. we're rooting for you



Thank you my brother 🙏🏼 🙏🏼 🙏🏼 I appreciate your words and thoughts. 

For real 💯 if EVERYTHING goes right: cleared Monday, no infection after a couple of weeks of being off A/B’s and when my swelling goes down; I’ll send some of my photos (eyes concealed for privacy or most likely from the nose down to show jaw/chin work) to those of you who have wished me well on this journey thus far (I appreciate you guys 💯 💯 💯)

NOTE: This depends on all the aforementioned conditions being met and realize, that it will take months for my swelling to go down (so be patient). 

To those I send photos to, we will work out a system for privacy (obviously none of my photos will be posted here). 

@Joyride -Welcome: 📿 🤝 🩸

☮️


----------



## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 30, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> I’ll send some of my photos (eyes concealed for privacy or most likely from the nose down to show jaw/chin work) to those of you who have wished me well on this journey thus far


Dont know if I nominate for this but the zygo implant would be much more interesting with a before/after

seems like the chance of infection on zygo implant is much lower than on the jaw

fronta, 3/4 and a side profile shot would be appreciated

also, how far do you zygomatic implant extend on the zygomatic arch ?


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Jan 30, 2020)

Good luck dude! 

I've been fallowing this thread for a few days now. I'm close to setting up a Skype consultation with Defrancq. I'm just waiting for some x-ray photos to come through. I may be going down the wraparound implant route if he doesn't think I'm a good candidate for bone movements. 

I had a consultation with a different surgeon yesterday. After following this thread I pushed them to tell me how likely an infection was from jaw implants. They told me that implants placed at the back of the mouth have a higher chance of infection (may be as high as 10-20%!).
I'm now worried the same shit might happen to me!

Your jaw implant looks massive, I'll be curious to see how it turns out.


----------



## kota (Jan 30, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Small update: Saw Defrancq today and HE SAYS that the hole is closed, nurse who was in the OR on my case also confirmed (which is excellent) and that we couldn’t be in a better position (some fluid still and they are not sure where it’s coming from but Defrancq says he’s not at all concerned about it).
> 
> So.... now the plan is: no more compression garment from tomorrow on, except for perhaps nighttime ... up to me (he said that he felt strongly the compression helped my situation thus far).
> 
> Kill A/B’s on Saturday afternoon and he’ll see me for his final evaluation on Monday 🤞🏼🙏🏼


Things are looking up, good to hear man!


----------



## highT (Jan 30, 2020)

I am curious, did your custom cheek implants from Dr. Y have to be removed due to infection, or was it only the jaw implant that had to be removed? Just read your latest update, glad to hear things are looking up.


----------



## freeone12 (Jan 30, 2020)




----------



## Sal123 (Jan 30, 2020)

amazing to hear bro, knew things would work out, also i bet youre gonna slay after the swelling goes down, I'm thinking of getting cheek implants done but was too coward to get them done last year (big up to u for going through with this invasive procedure, u r a true looksmaxer) , u said dr defrancq was amazed with your cheeks, problem is my eyes are kinda hollow and narrow so wouldn't want anything that makes them very sunken, did this happen to your eyes, i have a consolation with him on Saturday in london regarding cheeks, do u have any before and afters of your cheeks bro that would help me out a lot in evaluating wether implants or another procure can give me hollow cheeks . Also. the hospital food IS nasty asfuck, and the rooms are kinda boring so fully understand why u moved. im surprised u can eat lmfao all i was eating was soup. good luck for monday


----------



## CristianT (Jan 30, 2020)

Just pure curiosity... somebody knows that you went to Belgium to make these procedures? Your siblings... friends... idk, someone?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 30, 2020)

Dr Shekelberg said:


> seems like the chance of infection on zygo implant is much lower than on the jaw



*You’re correct, it’s much lower.*

fronta, 3/4 and a side profile shot would be appreciated

*We will see... MUCH has to happen before it can even be considered but tbh, if I make it, I’ll be so happy that I’ll probably hook you up man (we must wait)*

also, how far do you zygomatic implant extend on the zygomatic arch ?

______________________________________

@Agentof Evolution - They told me that implants placed at the back of the mouth have a higher chance of infection (may be as high as 10-20%!).

*They told you right... I’m surprised tbh ... but obviously that’s good on them and BEST for you to know the truth so that you can make an informed decision (I wouldn’t be worried but AWARE as it’s a real possibility).

Glad this thread helped to push some questions and get information that you needed (That’s the entire point my brothers)*


highT said:


> I am curious, did your custom cheek implants from Dr. Y have to be removed due to infection, or was it only the jaw implant that had to be removed? Just read your latest update, glad to hear things are looking up.


*
Thanks very much and good question (as you can imagine, I was asking the same when I found out I needed removal) -No they did not ( : 

Y told me (without explicit details) -that the two areas are not related (connected). *


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 30, 2020)

Sal123 said:


> amazing to hear bro, knew things would work out, also i bet youre gonna slay after the swelling goes down, I'm thinking of getting cheek implants done but was too coward to get them done last year (big up to u for going through with this invasive procedure, u r a true looksmaxer) , u said dr defrancq was amazed with your cheeks, problem is my eyes are kinda hollow and narrow so wouldn't want anything that makes them very sunken, did this happen to your eyes, i have a consolation with him on Saturday in london regarding cheeks, do u have any before and afters of your cheeks bro that would help me out a lot in evaluating wether implants or another procure can give me hollow cheeks . Also. the hospital food IS nasty asfuck, and the rooms are kinda boring so fully understand why u moved. im surprised u can eat lmfao all i was eating was soup. good luck for monday



*Ahh not out of the woods yet brother .. (Monday I’ll know my fate) but thank you very much for your positivity! 💯

Likewise patron: *you’re a true looksmaxxer, one of the first pioneers with Defrancq and THEE first to post up results from him (phenomenal results by the way) -SO MUCH RESPECT for that!

*Regarding eye area:* my eyes were and still are trash tier but not to the extent that they were pre implants; and the custom cheeks gave me the foundation to build something great (a’la Taban in the future) -I appreciate them but I would have never got them solo... you know it’s an aesthetic synergy with the lower third (jaw/chin) and middle third (cheeks and eyes) working together in tandem (obviously the upper third too as you need all parts for harmony but you understand what I’m saying ... the former two take priority... at least for me).

*Hollow cheeks* really depend on how your wraparound framed your face and now (more importantly) how you design your cheek implants -You know that Y. Designed my cheeks ... Personally... what I might consider in your position, would be either*:

A*. Go to Y for this procedure

*B*. Maybe there’s some way to pay Y. To design the cheeks for you and then, take that design to Defrancq to insert for you.

*Listen, Defrancq is just as I said from my previous posts* (will try his damndest not to fail you, so in that respect he’s a great surgeon) and you know him personally as well but to me... I don’t think he has the design/aesthetic prowess to do custom work ... YET (just my opinion) and you know what? I could be dead wrong (my case was exceptional in that regard -design wise

*ha @ the clinic food lol ahhh* ... I’m SUPER selective when it comes to food and it just wasn’t cutting it.

*TIP (for those considering): *Takeaway app is your LIFELINE.... I’ve a few favorite places and one place has ribs that literally fall/melt off the bones I.e. NO CHEWING required and you’re getting PROPER PROTEIN.

*Also like I mentioned (digressing):* There is a certain smell there that just lingers ... LIKE FK ... it makes me physically ill ... I don’t know what it is but I was thinking about it briefly and people need to be aware that this is also a POPULAR clinic for Trans people: it’s two clinics in one: O2 clinic for Defrancq and 2pass for feminization (different surgeon: who’s cool ASF by the way!) anyways, point being: there are individuals there who are having their skin cauterized, electrolysis done for hair removal, tracheas shaved and any other procedure you can think of for gender reassignment... ... I THINK.... THAT smell ... is a combination of the aforesaid procedures (burnt skin healing etc..) and probably the smell of antibiotics seeping from the skin of all patients on a floor
combined with the “food” being prepared ... ahhh lol yeah it’s disgusting to think about but people should know .... (I asked for a diffuser it was so off putting).

(Digressing part II & “insider trading”): @Sal123 ... did you see/remember that brunette desk bimbo? She’s got a PROPER butt and figure to boot (face isn’t bad either .. like a psl 6.8-7) ... she is made to get pregnant 🤰🏼 Actually, I swear2G that Don Defrancq has a stable of tight teens there (at least 2 others that are psl 6.5 +).

Anyways...


Long over due my man @Sal123
-sicario status 📿 🤝 🩸


CristianT said:


> Just pure curiosity... somebody knows that you went to Belgium to make these procedures? Your siblings... friends... idk, someone?



Uzi Vert Mode but thanks for the concern/curiosity/question my brother 💯


----------



## Sal123 (Jan 30, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *Ahh not out of the woods yet brother .. (Monday I’ll know my fate) but thank you very much for your positivity! 💯
> 
> Likewise patron: *you’re a true looksmaxxer, one of the first pioneers with Defrancq and THEE first to post up results from him (phenomenal results by the way) -SO MUCH RESPECT for that!
> 
> ...


mate shes a was born with 2 X an 1 Y chromosomes, she has a dick lmfao and a male voice but looks so fuckign hot, even i was drawn to her untill she spoke, btw did u achieve hollow cheeks after ur cheek implants?mind dm me pics, because i am also considering filler or mse
I like your ideas because they r so true . Dr defrancq does prefer soft and natural touches , that’s one reason why I didn’t want cheek don’t then , he spent very little and I gave no input as I was preoccupied with 


Also another important point for new boyos, I’m not sure about your attitudes but trans people really repulse me. It was painful having to see them in the clinic. One trans guy thought I was transitioning and asked ‘what procedure did she have’ wtf I clearly looks very manly with facial hair nearly threw up. So if I was to do this over again, I would stay in the clinic for 2 days and after book a hotel VERY close just in case.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 30, 2020)

Sal123 said:


> mate shes a was born with 2 X an 1 Y chromosomes, she has a dick lmfao and a male voice but looks so fuckign hot, even i was drawn to her untill she spoke, btw did u achieve hollow cheeks after ur cheek implants?mind dm me pics


LOl no no haha she is an authentic female but I KNOW who you’re talking about! ha ha ( : there are 3 biologicals that chill in/around the front and then the one you’re referring to (tall skinny non bio) 

Regarding hollow cheeks: I achieved a slight contour with a nice silhouette which looked very good but I wouldn’t say hollow cheeks, no. (Pics - have to wait man, even for previous photos if I do share those but for sure I’ll hit you up first when I decide).


----------



## Brandon10 (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm so proud of you brother, you really deserve to ascend after all this shit you've went through.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 30, 2020)

Sal123 said:


> So if I was to do this over again, I would stay in the clinic for 2 days and after book a hotel VERY close just in case.



ECHO
C
H
O

Go to a new place when you can move on your own.

The place I’m at now is a PALACE in comparison and I’m paying less for a HUGE room: high ceilings, WIDE space, open bedroom area (bedroom is tucked back in a separate area but opens up to the living room - dope aesthetic), tall windows that open up to a balcony, Large closet spaces for luggage/clothing, DEEP dish tub with a wide open shower and a separate commode ... lol can you tell I’m fucking ecstatic?! haha

oh yeah plus room service and free laundry 🧺 only downside is no Netflix ) :


Brandon10 said:


> I'm so proud of you brother, you really deserve to ascend after all this shit you've went through.



You know I appreciate you brother -One human being to another 🩸🤵🏼🤵🏻🩸🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 Thank you. 

We will see on Monday.


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Jan 31, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> oh yeah plus room service and free laundry 🧺 only downside is no Netflix ) :


DM me your netflix account so I can leach off of you when I do my surgeries


----------



## Adrenochrome (Jan 31, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> DM me your netflix account so I can leach off of you when I do my surgeries


 
It’s all free there my man -my account name was Pisslord but I think they dumped it lol 

It was on straight NARCOS haha -The season with Escobar was pretty dope. 

Moved on to Mexico ... it’s meh but has potential. 

What’s up with your thinking on surgeries for yourself at this moment? 

By the way, I’ll get to your dm after Monday (really want to give you a thoughtful response after I’ve some clarity on this situation).


----------



## SurgerySoon (Jan 31, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Ah those scans didn’t have my measurements, my bad- but the horizontal width is large and actually, SLIGHTLY less than my silicone measurements.
> 
> *Keep in mind, measurements and mms for implant design all depend on YOUR phenotype i.e. what might be massive for many, is perfect for someone like myself.
> 
> ...



So those are your implants that were designed by Dr. Y?

Now I really feel like my implants were simply designed too small. My right cheek implant projects by 5.5 mm, and my left cheek implant only projects by 3.5 mm. I honestly don't know wtf he was thinking when he designed them, especially since I showed him photos of guys with super-angular, extremely chiseled zygos (guys like Henry Cavill).


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Jan 31, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It’s all free there my man -my account name was Pisslord but I think they dumped it lol
> 
> It was on straight NARCOS haha -The season with Escobar was pretty dope.
> 
> ...


It's fine my brotha


----------



## CristianT (Jan 31, 2020)

Man, Defrancq is such a cool guy irl, wtf. We speaked like 1 hour and a half and his really nice person I was today to his fancy office in London.

I even said to him: 'fancy office you got here'. And he said.. yeah, ikr and he laughed. 

Its a totally different story when you meet him IRL comparing to skype. I had meeting with him on skype as well.

For his age... he thinks so goddamn fast, I am impressed. He also said to me that I like you and you are a nice guy, i felt flattered.
We talked so many things and we decided that I would need DJS + peek. I told him that i would need like a solid 7-8mm pulled forward. I kept insisted that forward growth is what looks good on people and he completely agreed. Totally worth flying 3h just for this. He also said:" wow, you came here with plane 3 hours flight just to see me?" He was kinda impressed, lol.

At the end of our conversation he showed me a patient which had DJS + peek and I was AMAZED. Im telling you without no exageration that the dude looked 5,50 and after that he bossted to a solid 8. Hes jaw was pulled forward, he looked soooo good, I even ask Defrancq that this guy had a wraparound jaw implant? And he said no, just a DJS + peek. Also the peek can make such a huugeee difference. I was so hyped bcs I was thinking I can boost my appereance so much.

Im telling you guys, just save money and ascend!


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Jan 31, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Man, Defrancq is such a cool guy irl, wtf. We speaked like 1 hour and a half and his really nice person I was today to his fancy office in London.
> 
> I even said to him: 'fancy office you got here'. And he said.. yeah, ikr and he laughed.
> 
> ...








Good luck bro although after this thread I have a feelings that his prices are gonna go up by at least 50% kek


----------



## ibetucnt (Jan 31, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Zuzzcel or something I believe


 @Gosick


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 1, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Man, Defrancq is such a cool guy irl, wtf. We speaked like 1 hour and a half and his really nice person I was today to his fancy office in London.
> 
> I even said to him: 'fancy office you got here'. And he said.. yeah, ikr and he laughed.
> 
> ...



Firstly, I’m very happy for you brother 💯 Happy that you had a good consultation and seem to vibe with the individual that you are most likely choosing to be your surgeon (this is all excellent). 

Second, I see you’re in that honeymoon phase (it’s cool, everyone goes through it initially, myself included) but try to keep and maintain a discerning attitude as you go through this process... they (surgeons) will all sweet talk you, one way or another. Grill them HARD on their contingencies and protocols for when/if things go unplanned. 

With that said, I hope your ascension is smooth and swift, sicario 💯


----------



## Chowdog (Feb 1, 2020)

So basically you worked your ass off to get the money, and instead of looksmaxxing you basically got tortured with surgery over and over


----------



## Linoob (Feb 1, 2020)

Chowdog said:


> So basically you worked your ass off to get the money, and instead of looksmaxxing you basically got tortured with surgery over and over



It's the name of the game

playing with fire, etc.


----------



## Chowdog (Feb 1, 2020)

Linoob said:


> It's the name of the game
> 
> playing with fire, etc.


beauty is pain, but he got unlucky


----------



## Cardiologyscribe (Feb 1, 2020)

Amazing thread but very scary to think you could catch an infection after traveling all that way. There is no way a local surgeon would be an option for custom jaw implant so you basically have to travel somewhere else. It’s like you really have to save up even more money than the planned cost justvincase you have to stay longer or go all the way back 😳


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 1, 2020)

Chowdog said:


> So basically you worked your ass off to get the money, and instead of looksmaxxing you basically got tortured with surgery over and over



You’ve not the financials, nor IQ required to be in this thread; you third world piece of garbage -bin yourself 🗑 

Lot’s of assuming going on here (working etc...) haha ( :

Reputation to post count checks out: literally a useless faggot.

@Linoob -don’t even bother replying to this Down syndrome (comprehension is WAY above it).

From Subhuman 2 Gutter Rat 
Fix that twisted gypsy nose too after you’ve robbed more decent citizens -fucking undesirable - JFL at your basic life, you broke bitch ( : 

^^ this is why looksmaxxers are divided -pointing that blade at your brother.


----------



## Chowdog (Feb 1, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> You’ve not the financials, nor IQ required to be in this thread; you third world piece of garbage -bin yourself 🗑
> 
> Lot’s of assuming going on here (working etc...) haha ( :
> 
> ...


yet here u are, unhappy with ur genes, desperately looking for surgery to fix that undeveloped face that you just can't be happy with     🤡🤡🤡🤡 btw ur the one that came all salty around the block, i was assuming that because it's the most respectable thing to do (work for your money) but u probably just asked ur parents or took out a loan which are both low IQ


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 1, 2020)

Chowdog said:


> yet here u are, unhappy with ur genes, desperately looking for surgery to fix that undeveloped face that you just can't be happy with     🤡🤡🤡🤡 btw ur the one that came all salty around the block, i was assuming that because it's the most respectable thing to do (work for your money) but u probably just asked ur parents or took out a loan which are both low IQ



Didn’t read.

You’ve experienced enough bullying for today. No more replies third world 🌍 🗑 

Enjoy reincarnation game - you’ll never ascend ( :


----------



## Brandon10 (Feb 1, 2020)

Chowdog said:


> yet here u are, unhappy with ur genes, desperately looking for surgery to fix that undeveloped face that you just can't be happy with     🤡🤡🤡🤡 btw ur the one that came all salty around the block, i was assuming that because it's the most respectable thing to do (work for your money) but u probably just asked ur parents or took out a loan which are both low IQ


Dude wtf why are you dissing on him? First of all just look at how thoroughly he has documented his entire experience, almost no one does that here.

And even if his previous surgeries didn't turned out well (btw he had silicone implants before and they were perfect, they had to be taken out due to infection), so what? It was obviously not his fault; both then and now he went to two very competent surgeons and did his research very well. His implants just happened to get infected, it happens and most of the time it's out of control for both the surgeon and the patient.

I'm aware that the site isn't the church or the fluffydoggy boards but you saying



> So basically you worked your ass off to get the money, and instead of looksmaxxing you basically got tortured with surgery over and over



when you're aware both that he didn't do anything obviously retarded i.e. go to a shitty surgeon, have some obscure osteotomy etc. (even then though there'd be no reason to be a dick) and that he's having a kind hard time thinking what to do next, you're being an inconsiderate piece of shit.


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Feb 1, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Didn’t read.
> 
> You’ve experienced enough bullying for today. No more replies third world 🌍 🗑
> 
> Enjoy reincarnation game - you’ll never ascend ( :


Bro don’t pay attention to this faggot a lot of bitter users on here unfortunately.

These are the same cucks who would get out of their own way to simp for a foid and put other men down infront of them to boost themselves up

These “men” are literally a waste of fucking oxygen!


----------



## Chowdog (Feb 1, 2020)

Brandon10 said:


> Dude wtf why are you dissing on him? First of all just look at how thoroughly he has documented his entire experience, almost no one does that here.
> 
> And even if his previous surgeries didn't turned out well (btw he had silicone implants before and they were perfect, they had to be taken out due to infection), so what? It was obviously not his fault; both then and now he went to two very competent surgeons and did his research very well. His implants just happened to get infected, it happens and most of the time it's out of control for both the surgeon and the patient.
> 
> ...


ok you make a good point, he did very good research and i liked reading all of it but i was an ass because he be wildin that nigga jumped at me


----------



## Linoob (Feb 1, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> You’ve not the financials, nor IQ required to be in this thread; you third world piece of garbage -bin yourself 🗑
> 
> Lot’s of assuming going on here (working etc...) haha ( :
> 
> ...



Murdered


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 2, 2020)

Brandon10 said:


> Dude wtf why are you dissing on him? First of all just look at how thoroughly he has documented his entire experience, almost no one does that here.
> 
> And even if his previous surgeries didn't turned out well (btw he had silicone implants before and they were perfect, they had to be taken out due to infection), so what? It was obviously not his fault; both then and now he went to two very competent surgeons and did his research very well. His implants just happened to get infected, it happens and most of the time it's out of control for both the surgeon and the patient.
> 
> ...



...THIS... is what the looksmax spirit is 💎

Such a human being man @Brandon10 🩸🤵🏻🩸FLAWLESS SPIRIT

You know what, with that being said ... fuck this static and negativity @Chowdog

Do you think it makes me feel good to send you those fucked up vibes ⚡💀 ⚡... I don’t want larceny in my heart man. 🔥❤🔥

If you’re in this game (looksmaxxing), you’re my brother... one way or another. Just watch your tongue ... I don’t think you meant anything twisted but it came off as reckless.

I hope you ascend peacefully (dead serious).

☮

*UPDATE*: Defrancq actually saw me just now...

*positive*: he says he feels really good about everything (literally best scenario to be in) -swelling is down and everything tightening up (I can see this as well)

*Negative*: Wants me to stay until Thursday as an “observational period” (I’m not on A/Bs anymore... true test and still early tbh but ahh better than nothing)

-I have A LOT of pressure on both sides of my chin -upper quadrants (almost beginning of mandible) BUT it’s near (actually right on, both the left and right sides of the mental nerve openings) *At the moment (and being hopeful) I’m attributing it to the tightening of the tissue and skin that are surrounding the nerve endings (keep in mind I also had a genioplasty: 17mm! More than half was bone movement and the remainder was the implant block).

@Sal123 -did you experience ANY pressure at all during your healing period?

NOTE of interest 📝 The mental nerve openings are HUGE -Defrancq took photos intra-operation and showed me a few days after (it was SUPER interesting) and I will FOR SURE post those up if he sends me them (I’ve been hounding him to send me them but I sense he’s hesitant -understandably) but I’ll get them ( :


----------



## ChaddeusPeuterschmit (Feb 2, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ...THIS... is what the looksmax spirit is 💎
> 
> Such a human being man @Brandon10 🩸🤵🏻🩸FLAWLESS SPIRIT
> 
> ...


Have you ascended?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 2, 2020)

ChaddeusPeuterschmit said:


> Have you ascended?



Personally speaking (for the moment) ... absolutely 💯 : keep in mind - I need to clear at least 2 months with NO issues to say I ascended and also, I had a decent foundation (artificially speaking) to start with custom cheek implants.

So... now there’s an insane synergy working in tandem with the new chin projection and jaw width/angles (also, I had large augmentation -check the design scans)

NOTE: With the above said, it’s still too early -significant swelling has gone down but there will be MUCH more in the coming months (pending this is successful -anything can happen).


----------



## ChaddeusPeuterschmit (Feb 2, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Personally speaking... absolutely 💯 : keep in mind I had a decent foundation (artificially speaking) to start with custom cheek implants.
> So... now there’s an insane synergy working in tandem with the new chin projection and jaw width/angles (also, I had large augmentation -check the design scans)
> 
> NOTE: With the above said, it’s still too early -significant swelling has gone down but there will be MUCH more in the coming months (pending this is successful -anything can happen).


Nice bro good for you. How much did it cost you?


----------



## Sal123 (Feb 2, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ...THIS... is what the looksmax spirit is 💎
> 
> Such a human being man @Brandon10 🩸🤵🏻🩸FLAWLESS SPIRIT
> 
> ...


I don’t know if I can answer that question bro. I was going through a lot . I couldn’t open my mouth properly for 4 weeks. Shaving was the worst - it felt weird because I couldn’t feed the razor yet could feel the hairs being pulled . No idea of what pressure feels like, tightness yes a little but then again your implant seems a lot bigger than mine. Btw swelling may look down but in reality it really isn’t. Comparing my face from 1 month post op to now it amplifies the puffiness. But u will definitely ascend. I went to London yesterday, switched on tinder and jeez I got hundreds of likes from ALOT of gorgeous ladies ! You’ve been theough the hard part now watch it improve. He seemed a little off and more Cautious about side problems maybe because of what happened to u . Cheek implants for me now hopefully because I want to ascend a little more, frontal seem flat


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 2, 2020)

ChaddeusPeuterschmit said:


> Nice bro good for you. How much did it cost you?



Thanks very much brother 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💯

*Price I Pmed you.


Sal123 said:


> I don’t know if I can answer that question bro. I was going through a lot . I couldn’t open my mouth properly for 4 weeks. Shaving was the worst - it felt weird because I couldn’t feed the razor yet could feel the hairs being pulled . No idea of what pressure feels like, tightness yes a little but then again your implant seems a lot bigger than mine. Btw swelling may look down but in reality it really isn’t. Comparing my face from 1 month post op to now it amplifies the puffiness. But u will definitely ascend. I went to London yesterday, switched on tinder and jeez I got hundreds of likes from ALOT of gorgeous ladies ! You’ve been theough the hard part now watch it improve. He seemed a little off and more Cautious about side problems maybe because of what happened to u . Cheek implants for me now hopefully because I want to ascend a little more, frontal seem flat



Always aces with your thorough replies my brother, thank you for the outline! 💯

Bro... just be careful ... (I know you already know this) but you’ve had AMAZING results. You should be good to go with cheeks in terms of safety (i‘d say one of THEE LOWEST complication rates) but aesthetically... it’s all fire 🔥 You’ve ascended NICELY and like you said, Tinder has shown you the reality with results! (you know I’m with you either way, whatever you decide 🩸🤵🏻🤵🏼🩸💯)


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Feb 2, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ...THIS... is what the looksmax spirit is 💎
> 
> Such a human being man @Brandon10 🩸🤵🏻🩸FLAWLESS SPIRIT
> 
> ...


Shiiiiiiiiiit! 17mm is massive! What's your phenotype?


----------



## Theonewhowillascend (Feb 2, 2020)

great post OP i hope you loosmax and dont forget to upload the before and afters we will be waiting for your ascencion!!!!!


----------



## Deleted member 4464 (Feb 2, 2020)

this is one of the reasons I dont like surgeries and implants, anything can fuck up at anytime and the only options you have are to live with it(if possible) or wageslave even more harder to pay another jew surgeon to fix you up so you can at least live normally


----------



## highT (Feb 2, 2020)

holy shit the sliding genio was 17mm? and then additional projection on top of that with the wraparound implant? That must be a HUGE change aesthetically. (I didn’t even know 17mm was possible movement for a genio)

As always wishing you the best of luck brother, looking forward to some transformation pics a couple months from now when the swelling is gone and you’re all healed up.


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Feb 2, 2020)

highT said:


> holy shit the sliding genio was 17mm? and then additional projection on top of that with the wraparound implant? That must be a HUGE change aesthetically. (I didn’t even know 17mm was possible movement for a genio)
> 
> As always wishing you the best of luck brother, looking forward to some transformation pics a couple months from now when the swelling is gone and you’re all healed up.


I could be wrong, but I think he means the genio + implant produced 17mm of horizontal chin movement. I also don't think 17mm bone movement genio is possible.


----------



## highT (Feb 2, 2020)

Agentof Evolution said:


> I could be wrong, but I think he means the genio + implant produced 17mm of horizontal chin movement. I also don't think 17mm bone movement genio is possible.


ahhh that would make more sense. in any case, still sounds like a dramatic change!


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 2, 2020)

highT said:


> As always wishing you the best of luck brother, looking forward to some transformation pics a couple months from now when the swelling is gone and you’re all healed up.


🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💯💯💯💯❤️ Brother 
-Let’s see if things work out this time 🤝


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Feb 2, 2020)

highT said:


> ahhh that would make more sense. in any case, still sounds like a dramatic change!


I agree. I thought I was recessed as fuck, and I'm not getting anywhere near this much forward movement.


----------



## highT (Feb 2, 2020)

Agentof Evolution said:


> I agree. I thought I was recessed as fuck, and I'm not getting anywhere near this much forward movement.


are you having sliding genio?


----------



## SurgerySoon (Feb 2, 2020)

@Adrenochrome Glad to hear things seem to be looking cautiously optimistic at this point. I just had a quick question for you regarding your cheek implants -- did Dr. Y design those by himself, or did you give him input along the way? In other words, did you tell him that you wanted around 6 mm of projection, or did he come up with that amount of projection on his own?


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Feb 3, 2020)

highT said:


> are you having sliding genio?


Most likely. I've spoken to three surgeons so far. 

The first recommended genio or wraparound. The second recommended genio, and no jaw modification as he thought my jaw was fine. The third recommended genio + custom jaw implants + implant material in between the chin and jaw angle to create a smooth transition. 

I'm currently leaning towards the third. But, I want to setup a consultation with Defrancq before I make my final choice.


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Feb 4, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> @Adrenochrome In other words, did you tell him that you wanted around 6 mm of projection, or did he come up with that amount of projection on his own?


High IQ question!
And I mostly see on Dr. Y and that jew Epply costume implants cases 6mm lateral projection and 3mm frontal projection for the cheeks


----------



## tryingtofindsolution (Feb 4, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> High IQ question!
> And I mostly see on Dr. Y and that jew Epply costume implants cases 6mm lateral projection and 3mm frontal projection for the cheeks


Is Eppley a jew?


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Feb 4, 2020)

tryingtofindsolution said:


> Is Eppley a jew?


He acts like one that's for sure!


----------



## CristianT (Feb 5, 2020)

any updates @Adrenochrome ?


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Feb 6, 2020)

CristianT said:


> any updates @Adrenochrome ?


RIP @Adrenochrome he was a good man, a funny man, a gentle beast with quite impressive roasting abilities.


Adrenochrome said:


> You’ve not the financials, nor IQ required to be in this thread; you third world piece of garbage -bin yourself 🗑
> 
> Lot’s of assuming going on here (working etc...) haha ( :
> 
> ...


Rest in peace brother looks like that silicone got the better of you


----------



## Adrenochrome (Feb 6, 2020)

CristianT said:


> any updates @Adrenochrome ?


 

........ MY BROTHERS.......

......I......

....AM....

...HOME...

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 



Barbarossa_ said:


> RIP @Adrenochrome he was a good man, a funny man, a gentle beast with quite impressive roasting abilities.
> 
> Rest in peace brother looks like that silicone got the better of you



haha chillllllllll and you forgot artist my guy ( : 

*Also, PEEK my brother - no sili aye

Will write a report/review in a bit, be patient sicarios 🙏🏼 🩸🤵🏻🤵🏼🤵🏽🩸 🙏🏼 for sure it was BRUTAL but much easier with my boys!!!!!!!
Will shout out the cartel in the write up. 

☮️


----------



## Golden Glass (Feb 6, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ........ MY BROTHERS.......
> 
> ......I......
> 
> ...


Damn I remember how worried you were about your infection man. Great comeback


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Feb 6, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ........ MY BROTHERS.......
> 
> ......I......
> 
> ...


Glad to hear things worked out. I have a consultation booked with Defrancq early next month (the soonest I could get). I'm also considering genio + some form of jawline enhancement + cheek implants. It would be interesting to hear from a genuine looksmaxer as the before/ after pictures on his website look fairly unremarkable.


----------



## CristianT (Feb 6, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> ........ MY BROTHERS.......
> 
> ......I......
> 
> ...



Im waiting for the full story like im waiting for my salary.


----------



## Linoob (Feb 6, 2020)

Bro that's so good to hear. Fucking stoked for you man.


----------



## Britsky (Feb 6, 2020)

I've had pretty shitty couple of days but hearing that you've made it through has really brightened my mood!! 

Congrats man, I'm super stoked for you <3


----------



## Deleted member 4054 (Feb 6, 2020)

Congrats


----------



## Gonion (Feb 7, 2020)

As I've been following the thread since the day of your first post, I'm really happy for you. After all the problems you've gone through you deserve a fantastic result, thanks for sharing your journey.


----------



## Solo (Feb 7, 2020)

Congrats man, im happy for you


----------



## paulus1 (Feb 7, 2020)

Hey Adrenochrome, was super interesting reading your thread  I tried messaging you on discord, since I saw this forum and thread by accident two days ago, but unfortunately was to late in contacting you. I'm a banker in the Antwerp diamond sector, and so I work/live super close to Defrancq's clinic, wanted to contact you to meetup, but to late unfortunately (took a while before this account got approved, by that time you were already on the plane), happy to read everything seems to have turned out well for you. Look forward to reading more about how everything turned out.

I'm interested in having a genioplasty done by Defrancq, would you recommend him for that procedure? It would be super convenient for me, as his clinic is literally less that half an hour away from me.

thanks, and hope you are recovering well!


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Feb 7, 2020)

paulus1 said:


> Hey Adrenochrome, was super interesting reading your thread  I tried messaging you on discord, since I saw this forum and thread by accident two days ago, but unfortunately was to late in contacting you. I'm a banker in the Antwerp diamond sector, and so I work/live super close to Defrancq's clinic, wanted to contact you to meetup, but to late unfortunately (took a while before this account got approved, by that time you were already on the plane), happy to read everything seems to have turned out well for you. Look forward to reading more about how everything turned out.
> 
> I'm interested in having a genioplasty done by Defrancq, would you recommend him for that procedure? It would be super convenient for me, as his clinic is literally less that half an hour away from me.
> 
> thanks, and hope you are recovering well!


Oh shit we have a banker jew up in this bitch!


----------



## tryingtofindsolution (Feb 7, 2020)

paulus1 said:


> Hey Adrenochrome, was super interesting reading your thread  I tried messaging you on discord, since I saw this forum and thread by accident two days ago, but unfortunately was to late in contacting you. I'm a banker in the Antwerp diamond sector, and so I work/live super close to Defrancq's clinic, wanted to contact you to meetup, but to late unfortunately (took a while before this account got approved, by that time you were already on the plane), happy to read everything seems to have turned out well for you. Look forward to reading more about how everything turned out.
> 
> I'm interested in having a genioplasty done by Defrancq, would you recommend him for that procedure? It would be super convenient for me, as his clinic is literally less that half an hour away from me.
> 
> thanks, and hope you are recovering well!


hey bro,does your job halo you with women?Cause I believe that later in life status becomes more important


----------



## Moneymaxxed (Feb 7, 2020)

Just spent over an hour reading every word of this thread, thank you for sharing your experience and congratulations <3 hope no further complications!!


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## paulus1 (Feb 8, 2020)

@tryingtofindsolution 

I do not have the impression that my career correlates in any way with success with women, do not forget that in Belgium you are taxed extremely high, especially if you earn a lot. It's different if you are self-employed or own your own business, you can avoid taxes better in that way, but right now I earn a lot, but i pay a lot.. So the prestige my job might have in the US, is not the same here. Nevertheless, for sure status is more important, I would say from the moment you graduate and start working. 

But I grew up rather wealthy, in my youth i didn't have the social skills to get a girlfriend nor did I understand the importance of appearance, I grew up with a model mother and average looking very successful father, so I thought how a man looked didn't matter so much , my standards were way to high.. During my college years I learned how to manipulate how people perceive one another, not only with girls, but also for work, the difference that acting in a certain way, or dressing in certain a way makes. After reading this forum a bit, i've come to understand that there are a lot of people with autistic traits or social shortcomings on here? I guess i'm the same, I loathe (long) social interactions/events, but over the years I've been able to cope with it and i'm able to play the act now. And i've found that women do seem to be more attracted to fit and well dressed men (probably status related). And I've always played intensive tennis and had the money to dress well, so since college, i've never had problems attracting women, even tho i'm not happy with my looks, i know i'm decent looking, i'm also very tall, but my girlfriends were always better looking than me, but that bothered me tbh lol.., even tho they didn't care, they even prefer it, gives them leverage, confidence you cheating on them becomes less likely i guess? But tbh I wanted to be in that position, haha i want to be happy with how i look, i want to have the same level of attractiveness. And there've been a few aspects of my appearance that have bothered me for a long time. That's why i've recently started looking around to change what bothered me most about myself, my nose and jawline. Love this forum btw. Has been great to get the information i need for what surgeons to consider. Anyway long and totally irrelevant answer to your question..


----------



## tryingtofindsolution (Feb 8, 2020)

paulus1 said:


> @tryingtofindsolution
> 
> I do not have the impression that my career correlates in any way with success with women, do not forget that in Belgium you are taxed extremely high, especially if you earn a lot. It's different if you are self-employed or own your own business, you can avoid taxes better in that way, but right now I earn a lot, but i pay a lot.. So the prestige my job might have in the US, is not the same here. Nevertheless, for sure status is more important, I would say from the moment you graduate and start working.
> 
> But I grew up rather wealthy, in my youth i didn't have the social skills to get a girlfriend nor did I understand the importance of appearance, I grew up with a model mother and average looking very successful father, so I thought how a man looked didn't matter so much , my standards were way to high.. During my college years I learned how to manipulate how people perceive one another, not only with girls, but also for work, the difference that acting in a certain way, or dressing in certain a way makes. After reading this forum a bit, i've come to understand that there are a lot of people with autistic traits or social shortcomings on here? I guess i'm the same, I loathe (long) social interactions/events, but over the years I've been able to cope with it and i'm able to play the act now. And i've found that women do seem to be more attracted to fit and well dressed men (probably status related). And I've always played intensive tennis and had the money to dress well, so since college, i've never had problems attracting women, even tho i'm not happy with my looks, i know i'm decent looking, i'm also very tall, but my girlfriends were always better looking than me, but that bothered me tbh lol.., even tho they didn't care, they even prefer it, gives them leverage, confidence you cheating on them becomes less likely i guess? But tbh I wanted to be in that position, haha i want to be happy with how i look, i want to have the same level of attractiveness. And there've been a few aspects of my appearance that have bothered me for a long time. That's why i've recently started looking around to change what bothered me most about myself, my nose and jawline. Love this forum btw. Has been great to get the information i need for what surgeons to consider. Anyway long and totally irrelevant answer to your question..


Yeah,I have some autistic traits myself,I believed that the appearance mattered but not that much until I started asking myself what attracted women the most,and after listening andd watching what they did,to which men they were attracted to,and it usually was the best looking ones.Anyway I have more problems in maintaining relationships than getting into one,as I become paranoid they will cheat on me because I am ugly (I am not that great looking,norwooding has fucked me up),and my relationships do not last.But I have also noticed that as more you grow,status is more important in maintaining the relationships.I like this forum too,there are people here who know the truth and they will do everything in their power to get what they want even if they will risk a lot and it will be painful (I hope to become one of them once I start working) With that said Good Ascension brother.


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## Britsky (Feb 11, 2020)

How's it going @Adrenochrome ?


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## Adrenochrome (Feb 12, 2020)

Britsky said:


> How's it going @Adrenochrome ?



Give me a week or so brothers (I had all the time in the world when I was recovering abroad) but now back in the matrix and have to sort things out.

Trust I’ll properly update you guys 🙏🏼💯


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## AllBrainsNeedednow (Feb 16, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> My thought process behind designing my implant was intense and highly personal: I chose around 8 different individuals faces who I admired aesthetically and in the first process of elimination literally superimposed their jaw/chin onto mine using photoshop.
> 
> It did not matter whose face I admired the most as I was looking for which features fit my face best (looked natural as my own). As it so happened, my highest regarded individual, aesthetically speaking, matched my lower third in all respects (it was beautiful) and at that point; I knew I had the foundational framework to begin designing my implant the way I wanted.
> 
> ...


You talk about research but I've never seen evidence that silicone is so unsafe or prone to infection. I believe Dr. Y has a meta analysis study on this. But I looked at it a while ago. Do you think Peek is safe for you because of your body already accepting it for your zygos? if I read that correctly. Plus weren't the incisions much larger since it was actual a hard material. not that it prolly matters that it is hard other than that. You are making me worry a little about Silicone now. I was going to put Silicone on my temples and some smaller custom ones in my scalp, but now I'm not as sure. other than that I planned on having no implants. the rest just other methods.


Adrenochrome said:


> Thanks man but I think very likely. 13k euro fking gone and months of healing ahead ) :
> 
> would need a fking miracle man


Can't they just IV you with antibiotics to kill that shit? maybe wash it out first and close you back up? Sorry to sound so crude. Just really worried about you man and well the rest of us too for that matter. OK i dind't read far enough. What did they do to stop or reduce the infection? you mentioned orange. So let's hear it maybe we can all save ourselves some heartache by suggesting to our surgeons the same or similar treatment for a post surgical infection? either way I'm curious as fuck.


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## Linoob (Feb 17, 2020)

AllBrainsNeedednow said:


> You talk about research but I've never seen evidence that silicone is so unsafe or prone to infection. I believe Dr. Y has a meta analysis study on this. But I looked at it a while ago. Do you think Peek is safe for you because of your body already accepting it for your zygos? if I read that correctly. Plus weren't the incisions much larger since it was actual a hard material. not that it prolly matters that it is hard other than that. You are making me worry a little about Silicone now. I was going to put Silicone on my temples and some smaller custom ones in my scalp, but now I'm not as sure. other than that I planned on having no implants. the rest just other methods.
> 
> Can't they just IV you with antibiotics to kill that shit? maybe wash it out first and close you back up? Sorry to sound so crude. Just really worried about you man and well the rest of us too for that matter. OK i dind't read far enough. What did they do to stop or reduce the infection? you mentioned orange. So let's hear it maybe we can all save ourselves some heartache by suggesting to our surgeons the same or similar treatment for a post surgical infection? either way I'm curious as fuck.



Put a gun to these surgeons heads and I'm sure most would be able to cure 99% of localized implant infections.

They're usually either too lazy or too busy or both.

Plus, as @Adrenochrome pointed out to me, it's an excellent business model and a high chance of repeat business if they're constantly doing revisions after removals.


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## Deleted member 4887 (Feb 17, 2020)

Hopefully Xilloc CT bone and similar implants will be available in the 2020’s


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## nastynas (Feb 17, 2020)

my man been on follow since first day of this thread

your vibe and attitude is the prime example of how we should treat each other as looksmaxxers, brothers who are in the boat, pursuing the same goal.

just for this alone i sincerely want the best for you as much as would for my own surgeries.

your positive attitude and dedication will overcome any obstacle thats on yo way G, i can tell you that

this thread also shows things can get dirty along this road, reminding us ugly and possible face of pursuit of a better looking face. thank you for all this detailed info about the journey, you are making god's work by helping the community

but as long as whoever goes thru this keeps the boss attitude you have it'll be all good for them

lastly may i ask where you from and what is your nationality? (if not private ofc)

much respect and genuine love brother

keep going strong


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## Slayerino (Feb 17, 2020)

Hey @Adrenochrome what a rollercoaster of a story. I hope you're in a better mental/physical state now. What I wanted to ask you is if you can tell me more about your experience with the world, when you had that implant. Like at the airport. I need these kinds of reports to fuel my looksmaxing struggle.

Also, cool username, hopefully, you never got it "fresh" lol.


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## dingodongo (Feb 17, 2020)

Are there any photos in this thread? Each time I've seen someone go through extensive surgeries and posted photos it always looked like shit and fake and the OP was in denial. I just want someone to prove me wrong that surgeries are a cope and none of you will ascend anywhere. Maybe to looking like a plastic faggot only.


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## AllBrainsNeedednow (Feb 17, 2020)

dingodongo said:


> Are there any photos in this thread? Each time I've seen someone go through extensive surgeries and posted photos it always looked like shit and fake and the OP was in denial. I just want someone to prove me wrong that surgeries are a cope and none of you will ascend anywhere. Maybe to looking like a plastic faggot only.


We need to add a down vote or ignore this person button. this is so below par. You know who looks fake, the guy in here taking the time to read all this shit and then acting like the people who are actually doing something for themselves and taking action are somehow losers for trying. Dingo you fuckin' COWARD, Go read this quote 30 times and then STFU dingoshit.


Linoob said:


> Put a gun to these surgeons heads and I'm sure most would be able to cure 99% of localized implant infections.
> 
> They're usually either too lazy or too busy or both.
> 
> Plus, as @Adrenochrome pointed out to me, it's an excellent business model and a high chance of repeat business if they're constantly doing revisions after removals.


That's a horrific world view of surgeons and one that I can't completely shake but at the same time, these assholes love giving people filler, So while that fits some of their model of forever needing revisions it doesn't compromise a person's health or long term health/safety.


----------



## dingodongo (Feb 17, 2020)

AllBrainsNeedednow said:


> We need to add a down vote or ignore this person button. this is so below par. You know who looks fake, the guy in here taking the time to read all this shit and then acting like the people who are actually doing something for themselves and taking action are somehow losers for trying. Dingo you fuckin' COWARD, Go read this quote 30 times and then STFU dingoshit.



Hey I hope it works out for this guy but I am yet to see a single case of implants in your cheeks, jaw etc that looks natural and aesthetic. I am not talking about the photos on surgery sites. I find the idea of young teenagers reading this shit and planning unneeded surgeries dangerous and stupid.


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## suddenurge (Feb 19, 2020)

How are you doing Adrenochrome? You are missed here at looksmax. I hope life is treating you well.


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## CristianT (Feb 22, 2020)

suddenurge said:


> How are you doing Adrenochrome? You are missed here at looksmax. I hope life is treating you well.


Waiting patiently...


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## Barbarossa_ (Feb 23, 2020)

suddenurge said:


> How are you doing Adrenochrome? You are missed here at looksmax. I hope life is treating you well.





CristianT said:


> Waiting patiently...


Legend has it that @Adrenochrome is soooo balls deep in a stacy that he needs king Arthur to pull him out of her 






To your ascension brother


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## Adrenochrome (Feb 23, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Waiting patiently...








lol soon (fking matrix man) ... I’m sorry brother! 




Barbarossa_ said:


> Legend has it that @Adrenochrome is soooo balls deep in a stacy that he needs king Arthur to pull him out of her
> 
> View attachment 279412
> 
> To your ascension brother



❤️❤️❤️ haha heart that - will update soon for all the sicarios. 

☮️


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## ProjectAscension (Feb 27, 2020)

Got a consult booked with Defrancq in a few months, looking forward to more updates!


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## suddenurge (Mar 5, 2020)

What is happening, brother? Are you healing up fine? Are you happy with what you see as the swelling subsides?


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## ProjectAscension (Mar 13, 2020)

All gonna die of corona before we get to the conclusion of this epic journey


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## Adrenochrome (Mar 13, 2020)

Ahh 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Fk bro’s ... I’m sorry

Perhaps some of you are wondering why I’ve been lurking so much and posting in threads completely unrelated to this topic (anti-aging etc...) and maybe it seems like I’ve been neglecting this thread but I can assure you it’s not the case ... I’m just biding my time gentleman.

Listen, it’s not the right time yet for me to give you an impartial review with respect to aesthetics (my outcome).

Why? ...

Simply because I’m still healing i.e. there is still lots of swelling and now, I’m enduring A-symmetrical swelling; so my objectivity has been warped: read that as completely distorted these past few weeks (keep in mind that I’ve bdd so I’m HYPER objective... to my detriment). 

Each day my face is changing and it’s put me in a mood tbh... (one day I’m feeling bad about it, next is good, the following is OK etc... roller coaster 🎢 )

I forgot that this is my second time around and that I’ve also had a much more invasive procedure: so although I was expecting (in my mind) to see a very quick outcome as before (I healed SUPER fast the first time: everything took shape almost immediately) this time, I have to be patient... dead serious, it’s the antithesis of my nature but nothing I can do about it.

Also and equally important, concerning Defrancq.... I’ve come across new first hand information from a few other people that had surgery with him recently (unbeknownst to me until last week) but these experiences need to be taken into account for his overall review, regarding his character and demeanor; as all of these individual accounts mirrored many of the negative aspects that I detailed during my journey.

Tbh I’m sick of talking about him, it’s exhausting but I will write up and surmise my final assertion of this surgeon.

So there’ll be two parts: The review of my aesthetic outcome, in my own words and my final review of Defrancq.

Shout out to everyone who’s PM’d me: I haven’t responded to anyone yet so don’t take it personal: I’m really trying to get past myself but maybe some of you know how it goes when you’re on that rollercoaster 🎢 

Also, I want to try and give each of you a proper response (thorough and comprehensive) so ...it takes time... I will get back to you 💯

@my sicarios like @Barbarossa_ @CristianT -you’ll be the first I hit up (Barbarossa, I know that you already made your decision; from what I’ve read in another thread and I fully support you king 👑 💯 do what you feel is right man -start your journey and walk the path to your ascension)

☮️


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## Barbarossa_ (Mar 14, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Ahh 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Fk bro’s ... I’m sorry
> 
> Perhaps some of you are wondering why I’ve been lurking so much and posting in threads completely unrelated to this topic (anti-aging etc...) and maybe it seems like I’ve been neglecting this thread but I can assure you it’s not the case ... I’m just biding my time gentleman.
> 
> ...


My brother we are just happy that you are alright.

What you have gone through is every surgery maxxer nightmare.

Stay strong my man


----------



## CristianT (Mar 14, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Ahh 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Fk bro’s ... I’m sorry
> 
> Perhaps some of you are wondering why I’ve been lurking so much and posting in threads completely unrelated to this topic (anti-aging etc...) and maybe it seems like I’ve been neglecting this thread but I can assure you it’s not the case ... I’m just biding my time gentleman.
> 
> ...



No worries man. What is the most important right now is for you to recover because you went through these invasive surgeries so your immune system is weak. You need to boost your immune system because.. *corona*. Better safe than sorry.

And it makes totally sense and it's fair for you to wait more time till your swelling is gone. At least 3 up to 4 months(even at 4 months your edema will still be present but not as much) so yeah, eat fruits, vegetables, avoid sugar, take vitamins(C, D, Zinc) and take short walks and taste the sun☀☀☀.

I will have to postpone my surgery as well till July, August. Fuck corona man, it's like Grinch ruining all the fun.

I wish you a very fast recovery and we will wait, hopefully you also don't forget us when things will get better.


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## 6ft4 (Mar 14, 2020)

just read through the whole thread
I'm praying the final result turns out as you'd hoped


----------



## Linoob (Mar 14, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Ahh 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Fk bro’s ... I’m sorry
> 
> Perhaps some of you are wondering why I’ve been lurking so much and posting in threads completely unrelated to this topic (anti-aging etc...) and maybe it seems like I’ve been neglecting this thread but I can assure you it’s not the case ... I’m just biding my time gentleman.
> 
> ...



Swelling takes fucking ages bro.

Something as minor as my chin didn't stop shrinking until the 8 month mark.

I kid you not.


----------



## Agentof Evolution (Mar 14, 2020)

Looking forward to the review. I had a Skype consultation with Defrancq recently. I'm not sure what to make of him, so I'll be interested to hear other peoples experiences. Plus, as you touched on before, some of the before and afters on his website are concerning.


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## Morpheus (Mar 14, 2020)

Hoping you ascend brother. Update us when you’re ready.


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## Adrenochrome (Apr 11, 2020)

*As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.

@Linoob
@Brandon10
@CristianT
@Barbarossa_
@AlexChase89
@Sal123
@Golden Glass
@crosshold
@Morpheus
@suddenurge
@kota
@Dr Shekelberg
@anti caking agents
@highT
@nastynas
@Britsky
@6ft4
@Joyride
@Cardiologyscribe
@ChaddeusPeuterschmit
@Chowdog
@Theonewhowillascend
@fonzee98
@Gonion
@Solo
@paulus1
@Slayerino
@ProjectAscension

*Sicario Status In Effect *📿 🤝 🗡🩸🩸🗡

@6ft8InTheNetherlands
@MogTheMogger
@Downey
@diggbicc
@CopingCel
@Casadonis
@KDA Player
@zq336
@Solo
@Deusmaximus
@tryingtofindsolution
@BeestungLipsTheory

*....LMS CARTEL...* Shout out to my brothers!! 🤘🏼👺👹 🔥🔥🔥🔫🔫🔫 💨





*You wanted an update, well... here it is: 




READ IT ALL *




*IF YOU HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK AND COME BACK TO READ IT, DO SO. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN INCLUDED IN THIS UPDATE. *










I'm in a* dark *place right now brothers...





In despair, not only because of the deafening disappointment with Defrancq but also due to the destruction of freedom which *DIRECTLY* impacts our looksmaxing endeavors.


I've been thinking lately... is this even worth it anymore? (looksmaxing)





Of course, in the past (just two months ago), I would have answered yes, without hesitation.
However, given recent events/circumstances...








I cannot get this voice out of my head that keeps telling me *... IT'S OVER ... *
Not just for looksmaxing but for freedom and the old world (the way we lived our lives previously) which has ENORMOUS implications for our looksmaxing lifestyle _(Ascend to Slay&Play and/or handcuff a virgin wife, and validation)_, *as the two are intertwined (freedom and looksmaxing) *Sounds dramatic right? But is it...

I don't think so, *not at all *and I'll explain why.

This is a time of mourning for humanity... a time of great sorrow, this is *NOT* "business as usual."
We've entered the dawn of a new era: *The post human era *







This post human era was and officially is, being brought into effect via the Covid19 "crisis" and it affects* EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES* (including one of the most paramount to people like ourselves ... *looksmaxing*).


We looksmax to ascend and we ascend for many different reasons (some stated above):

*Slay&Play*







I'm sorry, I couldn't resist haha



*Handcuff a virgin wife to start a family and pass along our genes in hopes of better breeding/stronger aesthetics etc...*







*and/or pure validation etc... *







However....



You can forget about *ALL* of that now as the world is on LOCKDOWN 🔒 🌏 🔒




(well... the West and just about every other country in the world except those communist animals in China or the more intelligent Japanese/South Koreans).

Let's look at America.... 







America is a prime example because what's happening to it right now is UNPRECEDENTED (It used to be a world premier super power and represent freedom but has slowly transformed into... well... I'll let you decide but I will say, that this pandemic (more specifically, Coronavirus) is going to be the justification to strip it's citizens of all their natural rights and rape them financially. I also think it sets the stage for a one world, one government initiative (perhaps not immediately so but more on that later).



To the point then, Looksmaxing



EVERYTHING that you hoped to achieve via ascending is crushed with *three simple "crisis" mitigation protocols and variable programmed/condition responses:

1. *Lockdown
*2. *Social Distancing
*3.* Negative reinforcement for not adhering to the above two rules (vilification and social shaming)

*Programmed & Conditioned Responses:*
-Fear of contracting the virus and/or fear of spreading virus to others (which may inadvertently end up killing someone)
-Survival mode (only thinking about the necessities to survive during these times)



*SLAY&PLAY*
Tinder/Dating/Meeting/Hooking-up = *ALL AXED 🪓 by 1, 2 and 3 + P&C R*

Sure... you might have SOME people who OCCASIONALLY hook up (literally meet and fuck by circumventing lockdown) but for the vast majority, it's over.

Netflix and Chill ....OVER....

Obviously you're not going out for coffee first or out to eat at any restaurants, or to catch a show etc... EVERYONE and EVERYTHING is on lockdown.



*VIRGIN WIFE/LIFE PARTNER *
The chances of finding a virgin wife i.e. the ONLY suitable type of female to be a life partner and mother to your future offspring have just dropped DRASTICALLY (world wide) * AXED 🪓 by 1, 2 and 3 + P&C R

Obviously America is NOT the country to look for a virgin (because they're basically non-existent due to cultural norms) so one would carefully chose from a different country, with different cultural norms i.e. travel to country of choice: date and validate/filter out a suitable partner until they find one who meets their standards. 

Well... 






Geographic Risk Assessment for COVID-19 Transmission

Country Transmission Level*
Widespread ongoing transmission with restrictions on entry to the United States
Widespread ongoing transmission without restrictions on entry to the United States
Ongoing community transmission
Limited community transmission

*Full Map & details*: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/map-and-travel-notices.html

Actually, there are many viable countries with no entry restrictions FOR NOW... but how long do you think that is going to last?

Even IF restrictions are lifted (God only knows when) or notwithstanding restrictions, the psychological aspect of this viral outbreak (pandemic) will loom for quite some time i.e.

*Programmed & Conditioned Responses:*
-Fear of contracting the virus and/or fear of spreading virus to others (which may inadvertently end up killing someone)
-Survival mode (only thinking about the necessities to survive during these times)

Just like those criminals in the western governments who said people should have had savings 4 months in advance, prior to losing their jobs/businesses due to prolonged lockdown (purposely so and by design of this "crisis") YOU should have had a stable of virgins in rotation that you were talking to in order to secure your superior mate and future offspring; well in advance of this lockdown.

Do you really think that you're going to be able to find a viable life partner NOW.... during these times *and the times to come?* Most people are currently in a state of extreme fear and shock* i.e. survival mode* (low money or no money, no job or on the verge of losing job/going out of business, can't pay rent or losing home, not able to buy enough or maintain a high quality level of food and/or going into extreme debt etc... and the list goes on).

The point is, people are not prioritizing finding a life partner and certainly not to build a family, as many cannot even sustain themselves.



*VALIDATION: AXED 🪓 by 2 and 3 + P&C R*
Honestly guys... HONESTLY ... nobody is thinking about your face now... NOBODY GIVES A FUCK... FFS EVERYONE IS BEING TOLD TO WEAR A GODDAMN MASK LIKE THEY LIVE IN SOME COMMUNIST HELLHOLE SUCH AS CHINA.

Literally... people do not even want to look in your line of sight *(survival mode: they're not thinking about you, they're thinking "do I have enough food? why am I out shopping now? I don't want to catch the virus! How come there's no toiletries? Oh yeah because fear and panic caused the low iq masses to hoard "essentials". Am I going to have enough money next month to pay bills/rent? Am I still going to have a job by the end of this month etc... )*

People do not want to be near each other or anywhere close to you * (social distancing, negative reinforcement, fear) *

That powerful drug called dopamine which was encapsulated in the form of validation, has now been taken off the market and nobody's pushing it anymore. There's the occasional hit here and there but it's not the same (it's not as strong, powerful, pure or even meaningful anymore).





So... 



my brothers... 



I ask you... 



IS IT EVEN WORTH IT ANYMORE? 




*As to myself:* Deep down inside, I will *ALWAYS* say yes without question and now more than ever due to this Defrancq situation (will get to that later) but this is a PERSONAL CHOICE.

I am WAY TOO DEEP IN THIS GAME (heavily invested in myself) I must have spent about 60k so far in total and that is only on the lower third! (I still need to finish my eyes and hair!) Only to give up now but that doesn't mean even if I can fix my situation, that it will transpire into anything worthwhile; with the way the world is headed. 

My plans are rooted in the Fashion and Entertainment industries but it's obvious that these sectors have been rocked by the current "crises": concerts are being cancelled, tours are being canceled, events/venues and photoshoots are all being postponed until "further notice" etc... (every industry is being hit hard by this, nevermind the "non-essential" industries that I hope to forge a career in).




*Covid-19 *(I'm SO sick of hearing this fucking name) i.e. Coronavirus has *FUCKED UP ALL OF MY LOOKSMAXING PLANS. *

What do you think the general consensus on elective surgery is? Right... (and not that IGAF) but I can't even get a fucking CT Scan now (God these fucking idiots have been gripped by fear).

*Truth be told, I can still get all the surgery I want (that's what happens when you've a solid rapport and history with certain surgeons). However, these normal insignificant issues (such as getting a CT scan) have now become barriers to entry, so to speak.

Point being, that this entire "crisis" has made everything incredibly difficult, inconvenient or literally impossible.

Which brings me to the crux of the matter* (PAY ATTENTION)*

I'm saying this because it *NEEDS *to be said and also because I'm* VEXED BEYOND BELIEF. 



These GODDAMN uncivilized filthy Chinese vermin* 🐀 *(fucking communist animals *I'll get to them later)*: have invaded, subverted and sabotaged America (not to mention infected the rest of the world now) in collaboration with technocratic globalist (scientists, engineers, money changers and bureaucrats); such as renowned eugenicist *Bill Gates.*








Now... some of you who are ill informed, might be thinking, how can this subhuman cuck Bill Gates have ANY control (power) in this situation.

Listen... Bill Gate's net worth is *102.1 billion USD. *People at this level (let's be honest, Gates invented this level) obviously are not concerned with money (because they have it all and are generationally wealthy) but what they are after, is *POWER and CONTROL.

Bill Gates and those like him (Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerburg, Sergey Brin, Elon Musk etc...) have all the power and control that they could possibly need. Unfortunately, need and want are two seperate drives and these types of individuals are never satisfied. 

The individuals named above and those like them, unfortunately have been and are; shaping culture, policy, rules, regulations and laws in America. Furthermore, their unsatiated drive for power extends FAR BEYOND America and concerns the rest of the world. 

One World, One Order. These are the new technocratic "elite" who would like to rule over us. *






This event (covid-19 pandemic) has been planned for some time (*Event 201*) and Gates is one of its progenitors. They didn’t get the results they hoped for with SARS, Avian or Swine Flu, so now they are hoping with this latest virus that they will wreak enough economic havoc and cause significant fear that people will be begging for a vaccine and ‘*digital certificate’* *(pay attention!)

EVENT 201: *

The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on *October 18, 2019, *in New York, NY.

*The scenario (WORD FOR WORD):*

"Event 201 simulates an outbreak of a novel zoonotic coronavirus transmitted from bats to pigs to people that eventually becomes efficiently transmissible from person to person, leading to a severe pandemic. The pathogen and the disease it causes are modeled largely on SARS, but it is more transmissible in the community setting by people with mild symptoms.

There is no possibility of a vaccine being available in the first year. There is a fictional antiviral drug that can help the sick but not significantly limit spread of the disease.

Since the whole human population is susceptible, during the initial months of the pandemic, the cumulative number of cases increases exponentially, doubling every week. And as the cases and deaths accumulate, the economic and societal consequences become increasingly severe.

The scenario ends at the 18-month point, with 65 million deaths. The pandemic is beginning to slow due to the decreasing number of susceptible people. The pandemic will continue at some rate until there is an effective vaccine or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed. From that point on, it is likely to be an endemic childhood disease."

*Source:* http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html


Mmmm that's strange... this ENTIRE event (less the origin of outbreak) came to fruition... LITERALLY play by play. Didn't they try to tell us initially that this was zoonotic and it's genesis was the wet markets of Wuhan where it was transmitted from bats to people (because the Chinese are fucking filthy, unhygienic and enjoy slaughtering/eating "exotic"/wild animals)?


*Yes... yes they did.*


Aren't they telling us that there is no possibility of a vaccine being available until next year? (thus nothing available the first year).


*Yes... yes they are.*


Since the whole human population is susceptible, during the initial months of the pandemic, the cumulative number of cases increased exponentially, doubling every week. And as the cases and deaths accumulate, the economic and societal consequences have become increasingly severe, have they not?


*Yes... yes they have. *


Haven't they told the people in America (increasingly so) that these lockdowns were only for 2 weeks, then 1 month and now it's looking like 3 months with talks into the summer of NEXT YEAR (cycling these lockdowns on and off) for a total of just about 18 months?


*Yes... yes they have. *














Is *ANYONE *noticing a fucking pattern here!?









*ANYBODY??????*












But I couldn't forget, the last part of the scenario is the best: 

"The pandemic will continue at some rate *until there is an effective vaccine *or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed."

This is where your buddy Bill Gates steps up to the plate. Haven't you noticed Gates appearing more and more frequently on TV, and giving interviews as well as "sharing" his thoughts on the pandemic (like anyone GIVES A FUCK) but they should ... because he's slowly revealing his, and those like him, intentions...

An excerpt and direct quote from the NPR Gates interview:

Gates has gone on record to say, that he thinks large public gatherings may have to wait until there's a *vaccine...*

"What I'm saying, what Dr. [Anthony] Fauci is saying, what some other experts are saying, there's a great deal of consistency. We're not sure yet which activities should be resumed, *because until we get a vaccine that almost everybody's had*, the risk of a rebound will be there."

*Source: 








Bill Gates, Who Has Warned About Pandemics For Years, On The U.S. Response So Far


Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates gives high marks for social distancing efforts but low marks for testing. He says he thinks large public gatherings may have to wait until there's a vaccine.




www.npr.org






-Until* *there is an effective vaccine 
-because until we get a vaccine that almost everybody's had
-vaccine 
-vaccine 
-vaccine 
-vaccine 
-vaccine 
-vaccine 
-vaccine 
-vaccine 

Wow... sounds like Bill's really pushing for a global vaccine... you know... one that everybody has to have in order for certain things to resume (travel, work, dining out etc...) you know, normal things that every society has had and done for ages and of course only things that have benefits to society (at his discretion of course).


It almost sounds like it just might be compulsory to have these vaccines... you know... like forced inoculations.*




*AND I KID YOU NOT... WORD... FOR FUCKING.... WORD *

“Bill Gates, the Gates Foundation are in favor of developing* digital certificates* *that would certify that individuals, American citizens, have an immunity to this virus and potentially other viruses going forward* *to then facilitate travel and work and so forth,*” Ingraham said.

*Source: *








AG Barr On Bill Gates Wanting ‘Digital’ Vaccine ‘Certificates’: I’m ‘Very Concerned About’ Slippery Slope


Attorney General William Barr told Fox News’ Laura Ingraham on Wednesday night that he was “very concerned” about billionaire Bill Gates’ apparent desire to have “digital certificates” to show if people have been vaccinated against viruses. “Bill Gates, the Gates Foundation are in favor of...




www.dailywire.com






This CRIMINAL (Bill Gates) IS SO BRAZEN that he did a Reddit AMA and recited the same answer:

*Source: *

*Source: *



This is it... I don't care if you believe in religion or "conspiracy theories" but THIS IS WHAT WAS FORETOLD AS THE MARK OF THE BEAST. 


Revelation 13, which states, beginning in verse 16, concerning the Mark of the Beast:

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark of the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.”


If you don't take these vaccinations, then you’ll presumably be ostracized from the rest of the world and forced into permanent isolation, left to fend for yourself with no means to buy, sell, or conduct any type of business in order to make a living and survive.


This is the POWER and CONTROL that these types of criminals want. 


We are living revelations in reality and Bill Gates is laying it all out for you – assuming you’re paying attention. Everything he’s presenting as the “solution” to the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) crisis was foretold long ago by the prophets, and now it’s coming to fruition under the guise of stopping a global pandemic and ensuring that everyone has a proper “digital identity.”










Keep in mind that this all coincides with the *ID2020 agenda*, which aims to create a global digital identification system for every person on Earth. ID2020 and vaccines are being used together to harvest the biometric identities of all mankind, and all for the purpose of creating the global system of tracking and control that was foretold in the book of Revelation.

They’ve already begun to test ID2020 in Bangladesh, inserting digital IDs in the bodies of newborn babies along with their vaccinations. And Bill Gates is now talking about how so-called *“quantum dot tattoos” *are the next wave of biometrics identification, also to be inserted in people’s bodies through vaccination.

A report from Futurism explains the quantum dot tattoo as “tiny semiconducting crystals that reflect light” and that “glows under infrared light.” This pattern, along with the vaccine it’s hidden in, gets “delivered into the skin using hi-tech dissolvable microneedles made of a mixture of polymers and sugar,” and is coming to a vaccine clinic near you in the very near future!


*Source: *www.sciencealert.com/an-invisible-quantum-dot-tattoo-is-being-suggested-to-id-vaccinated-kids

*Source: *








Storing medical information below the skin’s surface


Specialized dye, delivered along with a vaccine, could enable “on-patient” storage of vaccination history.




news.mit.edu





*Source: *








ID2020 | Digital Identity Alliance


The ID2020 Alliance is a global partnership maximizing the potential of digital ID to improve lives.




id2020.org








*Let me set the table for you and show how it's going to play out in the future:*

First you will be microchipped whether you want to be or not. This microchip will initially just include information about you and whether or not you have received the vaccine or not. These microchips will be tracked using cell towers and other sensors when you walk into public places, stores etc.

Walmart already uses similar technology to track you when you walk into their stores. They have RFID scanners inside the metal detectors when you walk in the entrance and at checkout. They track your purchasing, what you paid for it, how frequently, and use statistical analysis on your buying habits to price and stock items. Many Walmart's also have implemented facial recognition systems. These same scanner also pick up the MAC address your phone broadcasts and tracks you using that as well. Microsoft was the company that helped Walmart create these systems. Israel is already tracking citizens phones and locations and ordering suspected infected people to quarantine.

Eventually, these microchips will also store your bank account information. Cash will be banned entirely and you will just tap/swipe your chip to pay for items. If the government doesn't like you, or you are dissenting against your leaders, no problem, they will just turn your chip off. You will no longer be able to pay for anything, and as far as society is concerned you will be an outcast. A new digital currency will be ushered in. It will be considered a safe and official alternative to cryptocurrency that you can "trust". But in reality it will be just 1's and 0s on a computer screen that can be easily manipulated.

Those who refuse the chip will be sent to isolated concentration camps you will not return from. These camps already exist. In the US, these camps are already stocked with millions of plastic coffins (OH YOU FORGOT ABOUT THOSE?). 

It will become acceptable to receive a chip because you will be doing it for the "safety of society". Those who refuse will be ostracized similar to those who refuse vaccines. These chips will be used to continually monitor and track all civilians. They will use rich and famous people first to implant them to try to convince the average person that it's "cool" and normal to get these chips. If you don't get the chip you will not be able to buy anything, and you will not be able to work, and you will be denied healthcare. If you refuse to let your child get the chip, they will forcefully inject it anyway, and possibly put them under new custody.

Social distancing will continue to be encouraged, even after the virus is under control. People will be encouraged to work from home, use their chips to buy things online, watch tv, play video games, use their phones and other devices. Everything you say online will be tracked and monitored and linked to globally unique number which will be embedded in your chip. Your devices will all become "smart" devices which have microphones and GPS sensors. Your own home will be a wiretapping system that you will purchase on your own.

This plan has been in action since at least the 80's.




*Let look at how it's already playing out now:

1.* *"Dr." Michael J. Ryan, executive director of the Health Emergencies Programme for W.H.O. *
is now trying to say that in most parts of the world DUE TO LOCKDOWN, most of the transmission of the virus
is happening in the household, at the family level.

"So... now, we need to go and look in families to find those people who may be sick and REMOVE THEM and ISOLATE THEM."

*Source: *








World Health Organization COVID-19 Briefing Transcript March 30 - Rev


The World Health Organization gave a news briefing today on coronavirus, providing updates for the world on March 30. Read the full transcript of the press conference here.




www.rev.com





Forcibly come into YOUR home and take YOU away....


*2. Anti-COVID19 volunteer drone task force* watching you and reporting on you every second; commanding you to obey
social distancing rules. Barking at you like a dog.

*Source:* 


Speakers setup outside shopping centres "reminding you" every other minute; like a child, to wash your hands and
maintain social distancing.



*3. The LA City Mayor has now said that snitches get rewards*... literally.... "we want to thank you for turning folks
in and making sure that we are all safe".

*Source:* 

Does this sound familiar to anyone!? Does that not remind you of the 1930's Soviet (communist!) Tradition of Snitching:
when people would denounce their neighbors, colleagues and love rivals to improve their living conditions,
advance their career or curry favor (no pun intended) with the authorities.

Are you fucking kidding me????? ANYBODY???? IS THERE ANYBODY WITH A FUCKING PREFRONTAL CORTEX LEFT????

This is SO brazen, it is INSANE that NOBODY is saying ANYTHING regarding the criminal takeover by communist in our corrupt government.



*4. 5G: Yes, let's get to why people are burning down 5G towers across the world.*

Despite Israel being intimately involved with the creation of 5G technologies, they are not planning to deploy it in Israel (BIG FUCKING SURPRISE!).

The Israeli government will not roll it out in Israel*. Rather, Israel will develop a fiber optic version.

Source:* 








5G Gigantic health hazard - dr Barrie Trower & sir Julian Rose


International Conference - Poland - Zone free from 5G Kraków, 28.02.2019 More info: http://mywolniludzie.net/wydarzenia/polska-strefa-wolna-od-5g-miedzynarod...




www.youtube.com






The study out of Washington State University, titled *“The Role of 5G in the Coronavirus Epidemic in Wuhan China,” by Martin Pall, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Washington State University *raises questions about the “causal role” 5G may have had on people infected with coronavirus in places where it was rolled out first — such as in Wuhan.

The question that is being raised here is not whether 5G is responsible for the virus, but rather whether 5G radiation, acting via VGCC activation may be exacerbating the viral replication or the spread or lethality of the disease.

I want to applaud the people of the UK for standing up against their satanic government.

*Source:* 








5G Tower Set On Fire Just 2 Days After Its Installation! "It's 0G Now"


5G Tower Set On Fire Just 2 Days After Its Installation! "It's 0G Now"




www.youtube.com






----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*MY BROTHERS, YOU MUST RESIST THIS CRIMINAL AND SATANIC SYSTEM*







------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... for what you've all been waiting for: 


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Figure it out!

A͚d͚r͚e͚n͚o͚c͚h͚r͚o͚m͚e͚


A̘̫͈̭͌͛͌̇̇̍d̥̝̮͙͈͂̐̇ͮ̏̔̀̚ͅr̼̯̤̗̲̞̥̈ͭ̃ͨ̆e̮̟͈̣̖̰̩̹͈̾ͨ̑͑n͉̠̙͉̗̺̋̔ͧ̊o̜̓̇ͫ̉͊ͨc͔ͣͦ́́͂ͅh͚̖̜̍̃͐r̼̯̤̗̲̞̥̈ͭ̃ͨ̆o̜̓̇ͫ̉͊ͨm̘͈̺̪͓̺ͩ͂̾ͪ̀̋e̮̟͈̣̖̰̩̹͈̾ͨ̑͑



Aͦͯͦͯdͦͯͦͯrͦͯͦͯeͦͯͦͯnͦͯͦͯoͦͯͦͯcͦͯͦͯhͦͯͦͯrͦͯͦͯoͦͯͦͯmͦͯͦͯeͦͯͦͯ


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## Sal123 (Apr 11, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...



Haha dude love the fact you’re into stuff like that and you’re not alone . We have no idea what the world will be like in 10 years - just look how quickly a virus change life today. Say for example ww3 broke out no one would give a fuck about your face so sometimes I think what’s the point. But
After scrolling through insta I feel like looksmaxing again. I’m not surprised if Israel didn’t install them 5g towers (I’m not sure if it’s legit or a hoax that 5g is dangerous) but after all Israel’s goal is to take over the world and cannot be done if it’s vulnerable so stays under the radar i.e has nukes but keeps it a secret and focusses attention on Iran. Also I’m sick of China too, the constant abuse of human rights, the deranged eating, their police state. You never mentioned much about your jaw result I hope it’s the best , are u at the stage u can post pics or r u still considerately swollen. I was thinking about cheeks and infra orbital and since u said u had a great outcome I’d appreciate some intel 😁


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## Downey (Apr 11, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...




How did your surgery go


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## 6ft4 (Apr 11, 2020)

Our dystopian future is depressing and part of the reason I'm very unlikely to have children. I miss being 20 back in the summer of 2015 and not having a clue about how bleak the future of the world would be
All I want is the become the finished article in terms of my looksmax potential and have a summer of carefree partying without thinking about how my deformed jaw and shitty skin looks every 2 minutes
I am however glad that while I am in hermit mode, just workcelling and saving, everyone else is stuck in the basement too so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything for once

What more have you to say about deFranqc? he was number one for me in terms of surgeons I wanted to consult with


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## MandibularCel (Apr 11, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...



Thanks for the Defrancq update brother. Really appreciate it. To be honest, you have confirmed all of my fears about him. I had an off feeling about him as soon as I met him. So he's off the list. Zarrinbal too. Onto Marianetti..


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## Moggy (Apr 11, 2020)

OP is literally insane, holy shit JFL @ "looksmaxxers". This reads like a diary of a madman. KYS OP.


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## MandibularCel (Apr 11, 2020)

Moggy said:


> OP is literally insane, holy shit JFL @ "looksmaxxers". This reads like a diary of a madman. KYS OP.


At least he's going under the knife, this is valuable information for the forum


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## Deleted member 5634 (Apr 12, 2020)

I love your style of writing OP. I'm curious. Where are you from? (You can PM me) because i might now your nationality based of some words that you have used. Also, what's your opinión on local surgeons? I want to 
ascend fast and i don't have enough money so i was thinkin someone in my viccinity must be ideal. I would really appreciate your help, i really congratulate you for your high effort in this Journey.


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## Bewusst (Apr 12, 2020)

Read every single letter just to realize there are no pics


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## Slayerino (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


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"Do you want to know what I think about Defrancq? I think he's a doofus when it comes to aesthetics and produces disastrous results, even when given the original blueprint to the design.

He is new to the aesthetic side of surgery and does not have the ability to transform you to your specifications (he can not make you chad or raise your PSL). "


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## Adrenochrome (Apr 12, 2020)

Sal123 said:


> Haha dude love the fact you’re into stuff like that and you’re not alone . We have no idea what the world will be like in 10 years - just look how quickly a virus change life today. Say for example ww3 broke out no one would give a fuck about your face so sometimes I think what’s the point. But
> After scrolling through insta I feel like looksmaxing again. I’m not surprised if Israel didn’t install them 5g towers (I’m not sure if it’s legit or a hoax that 5g is dangerous) but after all Israel’s goal is to take over the world and cannot be done if it’s vulnerable so stays under the radar i.e has nukes but keeps it a secret and focusses attention on Iran. Also I’m sick of China too, the constant abuse of human rights, the deranged eating, their police state. You never mentioned much about your jaw result I hope it’s the best , are u at the stage u can post pics or r u still considerately swollen. I was thinking about cheeks and infra orbital and since u said u had a great outcome I’d appreciate some intel 😁




Brother, regarding 5G and any other topic I touched upon, just read and listen to those sources that I've laid out for you... honestly, take your time to "digest it" and things will become clear.

Infact, I URGE you and everyone else to fact check and find your own too (there are MULTIPLE SOURCES for every source I listed).

You and I have many of the same thoughts regarding these current issues (Iran, China etc... ) you NAILED China by the way -I was going to touch upon them too (still might) but it would be lengthy. Anyways, I'm talking about RIGHT NOW... forget about 10 years my man, WE... ARE... HERE... at the cusp of collapse.

Regarding my jaw and Defrancq, it's there for you in 0's and 1's....





Downey said:


> How did your surgery go



Regarding my jaw and Defrancq, it's there for you in 0's and 1's....




6ft4 said:


> Our dystopian future is depressing and part of the reason I'm very unlikely to have children. I miss being 20 back in the summer of 2015 and not having a clue about how bleak the future of the world would be
> All I want is the become the finished article in terms of my looksmax potential and have a summer of carefree partying without thinking about how my deformed jaw and shitty skin looks every 2 minutes
> I am however glad that while I am in hermit mode, just workcelling and saving, everyone else is stuck in the basement too so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything for once
> 
> What more have you to say about deFranqc? he was number one for me in terms of surgeons I wanted to consult with



Regarding my jaw and Defrancq, it's there for you in 0's and 1's....




MandibularCel said:


> Thanks for the Defrancq update brother. Really appreciate it. To be honest, you have confirmed all of my fears about him. I had an off feeling about him as soon as I met him. So he's off the list. Zarrinbal too. Onto Marianetti..



So... you've deciphered the message.... thank God somebody can still think. I'm also glad that you've gained some clarity from my situation, as it would be such a shame if this was all in vain.

I don't know what your goals are but Marianetti is a maxillofacial surgeon and while despite being "aesthetically centered" you will never achieve the aesthetic outcome that can SIGNIFICANTLY raise your PSL via this type of surgeon and ostemonies (which is what he performs... very rarely medpor implants IIRC).

When I showed him my original look and what I hoped to achieve, he said that he couldn't achieve that look (did my a favor).

Anyways, good luck.





Moggy said:


> OP is literally insane, holy shit JFL @ "looksmaxxers". This reads like a diary of a madman. KYS OP.




Right over your head .... peace to you ( :





Ethnicshit said:


> I love your style of writing OP. I'm curious. Where are you from? (You can PM me) because i might now your nationality based of some words that you have used. Also, what's your opinión on local surgeons? I want to
> ascend fast and i don't have enough money so i was thinkin someone in my viccinity must be ideal. I would really appreciate your help, i really congratulate you for your high effort in this Journey.



I've never dealt with aesthetic procedures locally... but personally speaking, I would only deal with an extremely experienced surgeon with a PROVEN track record (a thick book full of different types of aesthetic cases, with multiple photos... my original surgeon was this type). 

*It's analogous to this: *
I went international to a new surgeon (who is relatively unknown in this field: aesthetics but is solid on bone movements and stability i.e. no complications). I knew there was going to be some risk (aesthetically speaking) but thought that I covered my bases somewhat by taking the design of my original surgeon (who is THEE PREMIER in aesthetics) to be executed (the design plan) by this new surgeon.

Well... what do you think happened?

I've posted my review for you in 0's and 1's....




Slayerino said:


> "Do you want to know what I think about Defrancq? I think he's a doofus when it comes to aesthetics and produces disastrous results, even when given the original blueprint to the design.
> 
> He is new to the aesthetic side of surgery and does not have the ability to transform you to your specifications (he can not make you chad or raise your PSL). "



Ha haaaa Slayerino got it and gave you guys a brief synopsis of it ( :


----------



## Slayerino (Apr 12, 2020)

Also, if you want to know who's been behind this for 2k years...


----------



## MandibularCel (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Brother, regarding 5G and any other topic I touched upon, just read and listen to those sources that I've laid out for you... honestly, take your time to "digest it" and things will become clear.
> 
> Infact, I URGE you and everyone else to fact check and find your own too (there are MULTIPLE SOURCES for every source I listed).
> 
> ...


Damn son, so who are the best surgeons who are MaxFacs AND plastic surgeons? I'm starting to run out of names tbh..


----------



## CristianT (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...





You write really good, haha. Should become a writer.

What you said about Defrancq... I fully trust you 100% if you said that he sucks. I will cancel all my plans then and I will go Raffaini, in Italy or maybe ... maybe will go with local surgeons... fuck my life.


That's too bad, I thought he is the right surgeon to go with..

I'm actually sad and disappointed in the same time. I even went to London to consult him irl and wasted overall over 200 EURO.

There are 2-3 more new cases: https://facialsculptureclinic.com/en/cases/. As far as I can see Adrenochrome opened my delusional eyes and indeed he is not an aestethical surgeon.

This all thing is a bit contradictory, I'm saying this because when I went to Defrancq office in London we talked so openly and he even showed me results from other patients and the results were really, really fucking good. I saw a case with a guy that had a BSSO + Le Fort + Cheek implants(same thing I would also need) and I was *REALLY* impressed, dude looked like a different person.

I'm sorry that you don't like the results man...that's pretty fucking depressing.


----------



## CopingCel (Apr 12, 2020)

CristianT said:


> There are 2-3 more new cases: https://facialsculptureclinic.com/en/cases/. As far as I can see Adrenochrome opened my delusional eyes and indeed he is not an aestethical surgeon.



JFL at that cases, most look like he just switched tha background color.

@Adrenochrome Thanks for your words and thoughts


----------



## Chowdog (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...



You have gone off the rockers my dude. You have no sanity whatsoever.


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...



Bro you know whats funny?
That these jews think they are doing something good in the world and they are actually well intentioned but playing God too much is gonna bite them in the ass and sooner or later shit will be out of their control.
*(Yea I said it JEWS)*

As for as looksmaxxing I was thinking about taking my money out of the bank and forget about surgery and just buy gold cus it will always hold its value 




but where the fuck am I suppose to buy gold nowadays
it's truly over my brother

For anyone who is reading this here is my advice.
*It's always better to die free than to live like a slave *(just don't rope and be a useless statistic)


----------



## Deusmaximus (Apr 12, 2020)

You made 1 huge mistake: Going to get a jaw implant from a surgeon that is not specialized on this topic and has no big list of references to show. Why not just straight to eppley?? You would deserved a good result the most.

Could you provide some photos censored pics of your result (only a bit of your jaw)?


----------



## CristianT (Apr 12, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> Bro you know whats funny?
> That these jews think they are doing something good in the world and they are actually well intentioned but playing God too much is gonna bite them in the ass and sooner or later shit will be out of their control.
> *(Yea I said it JEWS)*
> 
> ...



So are you going to forget and cancel everything? I think you also wanted to make surgery, right?

I think you are giving up too easy bro. It's literally ascend or live a miserable life.

As I already mention to your Adreno, It might be that you still have some swelling going on, thats why you have the asymmetry, I might be wrong..


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Apr 12, 2020)

CristianT said:


> So are you going to forget and cancel everything? I think you also wanted to make surgery, right?
> 
> I think you are giving up too easy bro. It's literally ascend or live a miserable life.
> 
> As I already mention to your Adreno, It might be that you still have some swelling going on, thats why you have the asymmetry, I might be wrong..


I don't really know brother but if shit doesn't go back like it used to be then I don't really mind at all
I'm already in braces for bimax but I can't even see my orthodontist cus of the quarantine and I'm honestly loving my life right now 

Wake up => Coffee => Gymcel at home => And I have to work from home and not interact with anyone are you kidding me?!
this is the best thing that could happen for someone like me I have been in quarantine since I was born!
so If I had to buy gold with my money that I saved for surgery and just sit back and watch the world burn  this is as good as ascension lmao


----------



## Adrenochrome (Apr 12, 2020)

CristianT said:


> You write really good, haha. Should become a writer.
> 
> What you said about Defrancq... I fully trust you 100% if you said that he sucks. I will cancel all my plans then and I will go Raffaini, in Italy or maybe ... maybe will go with local surgeons... fuck my life.
> 
> ...



Thanks brother! It's natural when passionate about speaking to personal experience and just trying to open people's eyes to the deception that has veiled them.

It's interesting how intertwined looksmaxing is with current events but really, it can and does apply to any topic because this "crisis" affects literally everyone around the world in many more ways than simply from a medical standpoint (people's civil liberties are at stake and they're "asleep behind the wheel"). How are you going to looksmax if you're "locked up" and everyone/everything else is immobile?

People are in fear and fear leads to irrational choices. Individuals shouldn't give up their freedoms/civil liberties, in the face of fear (it's really that simple but that's unfortunately what's happening).

It's sad (although not surprising) that some people here are completely "asleep" (I'm being very generous with my words) concerning what's happening now. They don't have the SLIGHTEST idea what's going on in the world, let alone their own locale. How are you going to looksmax when everyone is on lockdown and elective surgery is classified as non-essential i.e. surgeons AREN'T performing elective procedures on you now (unless you've a strong rapport/surgical history with them as is my case: meaning they're generally not taking new cases/clients. Maybe you can schedule for an undetermined date or NEXT YEAR but I don't have time to wait!) . Furthermore, many surgical clinics (if not all, currently) are closed "until further notice" -Initially, when I told Defrancq I wanted him to fix his mess (not in those words obviously) he told me the clinic is closed until at-least FALL due to Covid-19 concerns.

Things will never be the same from this point on.

Regarding Defrancq, the decision is entirely up to you. I'm just relaying my personal experience and from my experience; he does NOT have the design nor surgical prowess to achieve POSITIVE PSL changes (forget about high-level PSL transformations) this guy is looksmining people (setting you back 1 to 2 + points).

_"I even went to London to consult him irl and wasted overall over 200 EURO." _

*Bro... I wasted about 18k USD ... consider yourself lucky it was just 200 euros.*






CopingCel said:


> JFL at that cases, most look like he just switched tha background color.
> 
> @Adrenochrome Thanks for your words and thoughts



Always brother and thank you for your appreciation! 💯







streege said:


> how could i didn't see such a thread bro ?
> i hope you are well and happy no matther what. What's matters as always is to reach contentement.



*STREEGE.... YOU ARE SUCH A HUMAN BEING BRO! 🙌🏼*



streege said:


> slaying and playing no matter what and how, will looks flawed sooner or later for each one of us, and hypergamy has no winner, only losers.
> This said, looksmaxing to getting a very gl virgin girls to not put your descendance into a desaster is more and more a mandatory given the current situation of the world.



*^^ EXACTLY - PERFECTLY STATED*



streege said:


> Concerning gook-19 :
> I knew it since december of the last year, it's all planned and we'r leading to the end of times, let's them be happy thinking their money will make them immortals.



*STREEGE = SUPER WOKE December was a dead giveaway



*




streege said:


> i'm also more or less wanting to give up on this, become more virtuous, and living closer to the nature in autarky ideally since modern civlization is utterly alienated as of now.
> I mean giving up on looksmaxing.



❤️



streege said:


> But, then i've read your first message, and i still can't believe it : Only your lower third implant made day and night difference ?
> *I don't think ever i'll have this success*, no matter the amount of well done surgeries, since i don't think i'll ever be gl. Is it low self esteem or pure pragmatism who knows.



YOU CAN but understand that I haven't yet either. I've spent about 60k (all things considered) on trying to achieve my ideal lower third but haven't been able to (at-least in way of long-term viability).

1st surgery = amazing (this was perfection for me) but unstable and lost due to infection
2nd surgery = stable (which is good of course) but poor aesthetic outcome i.e. nothing like the first surgery (my opinion)
3rd surgery = Going back to original surgeon - planning in progress - CT sent - waiting for prognosis... (I hope he can fix this)

Also and equally important, you've a better foundation to start with than me, so if I can model from my transformation (1st surgery), you can ABSOLUTELY reach a very high PSL (you're already GL man).




streege said:


> again concerning the so-called vaccin :
> One has to be low iq to take it : You either survive of the disease or you don't given your destiny when it's comes to death is written- the rest is motly a matter of relative free will.
> Who wants to have the disease in himself to have his body fighting it because this is exactly what a "vaccin" is :
> Putting in you a weakened gook-19 virus to hope that you'r body will beat it, but even there, the virus will stay forever in you....
> ...



*THANK GOD * *SOMEONE HERE CAN ACTUALLY THINK CRITICALLY AND FLEX THEIR CORTEX. 🧠💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼*

Everything you said is SPOT ON STREEGE!

*BRO... * I spoon fed these brain dead zombies 🧟 *FACTS *with excerpts, direct fucking quotes and source links that have the MAINSTREAM MEDIA discussing this; with the fucking ATTORNEY GENERAL OF AMERICA (AG William Barr) quoted as saying he was *“very concerned*”* about billionaire Bill Gates’ apparent desire to have “digital certificates” to show if people have been vaccinated against viruses. *

And yet they have the audacity to call me "insane" lol.... OK ....you fucking clowns* 🤡🤡🤡 *keep juggling for me and your masters* 🤹

“Bill Gates, the Gates Foundation are in favor of developing digital certificates that would certify that individuals, American citizens, have an immunity to this virus and potentially other viruses going forward to then facilitate travel and work and so forth,” *Ingraham said. 


*SOURCE AGAIN (and this is not the only source, there are MULTIPLE. Look it up you morons!): https://www.dailywire.com/news/ag-b...icates-im-very-concerned-about-slippery-slope


"**To then facilitate travel and work and so forth**": so let's recap shall we? Mmmm .... if you don't get the digital certificate vaccination, you won't be able to travel freely or work... Mmmm.... if you can't travel, then your movements are restricted righhhhtt? If you can't work, then you can't make money to survive righhhhtt? 

Right.... okay do you understand now or do you need me to continue holding you hand?


"And so forth..." what does and so forth mean? Mmmmm and so forth is a generality as it covers similar things; et cetera.... you know .... ANYTHING THEY WANT IT TO COVER YOU INCOMPETENT FOOLS*


I bet these fucking barneys think digital certificates mean that they email you your vaccine results haha







*NO YOU LOW IQ BOZOS:* Digital certificates are going to be *Quantum dot tattoos *- “tiny semiconducting crystals that reflect light” and that “glows under infrared light.” This pattern, along with the vaccine it’s hidden in, gets “delivered into the skin using hi-tech dissolvable microneedles made of a mixture of polymers and sugar,”

This all coincides with the *ID2020 agenda,* which aims to create a global digital identification system for every person on Earth. ID2020 and vaccines are being used together to harvest the biometric identities of all mankind, and all for the purpose of creating the global system of tracking and control that was foretold in the book of Revelation.

*They’ve already begun to test ID2020 in Bangladesh, inserting digital IDs in the bodies of newborn babies along with their vaccinations. *And Bill Gates is now talking about how so-called “quantum dot tattoos” are the next wave of biometrics identification, also to be inserted in people’s bodies through vaccination.

*THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'M SPOON FEEDING YOU SOURCES:

MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)*: *








Storing medical information below the skin’s surface


Specialized dye, delivered along with a vaccine, could enable “on-patient” storage of vaccination history.




news.mit.edu





FROM THE FUCKING AGENCY ITSELF! (The official website): 








ID2020 | Digital Identity Alliance


The ID2020 Alliance is a global partnership maximizing the potential of digital ID to improve lives.




id2020.org




*


So Streege .... you know... I can't help these idiots anymore if they don't want to face the facts (facts over feelings every time). Certain people don't want to be "unplugged" and/or never will be ready to see the reality.

Ideally, I like to try (attempt) to help people but I don't have patience anymore. Let'em burn, I'm done with zombies 🔥 🔥🔥 🧟 To all those zombies reading this, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY THREAD, YOU CAN'T BE SAVED, YOU'RE BETTER OFF DEAD ( :







Barbarossa_ said:


> Bro you know whats funny?
> That these jews think they are doing something good in the world and they are actually well intentioned but playing God too much is gonna bite them in the ass and sooner or later shit will be out of their control.
> *(Yea I said it JEWS)*
> 
> ...




I'll play, although I usually don't address this topic because it's murky, complex and verboten...
However, one word change easily shifts the paradigm:


Jews  to khazarians/Khazars


"*It's always better to die free than to live like a slave *(just don't rope and be a useless statistic)"

^^ Good quote






Deusmaximus said:


> You made 1 huge mistake: Going to get a jaw implant from a surgeon that is not specialized on this topic and has no big list of references to show. Why not just straight to eppley?? You would deserved a good result the most.
> 
> Could you provide some photos censored pics of your result (only a bit of your jaw)?




Yes, which I've already addressed in post *#311 don't be redundant friend.*






Barbarossa_ said:


> I don't really know brother but if shit doesn't go back like it used to be then I don't really mind at all
> I'm already in braces for bimax* but I can't even see my orthodontist cus of the quarantine* and I'm honestly loving my life right now



*EXACTLY*




Barbarossa_ said:


> Wake up => Coffee => Gymcel at home => And I have to work from home and not interact with anyone are you kidding me?!
> this is the best thing that could happen for someone like me I have been in quarantine since I was born!
> so If I had to buy gold with my money that I saved for surgery and just sit back and watch the world burn  this is as good as ascension lmao



Interesting take on the situation, though I'm glad you're happy brother 💯


----------



## CristianT (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> 1st surgery = amazing (this was perfection for me) but unstable and lost due to infection
> 2nd surgery = stable (which is good of course) but poor aesthetic outcome i.e. nothing like the first surgery (my opinion)
> 3rd surgery = Going back to original surgeon - planning in progress - CT sent - waiting for prognosis... (I hope he can fix this)



So you actually want to go back on Yaremchuck and fix everything?


----------



## ProjectAscension (Apr 12, 2020)

OP has lost the plot. This forum is for looksmaxxing, we want surgery feedback and results not conspiracy theories.

This lockdown situation is temporary and in 3 months we'll mostly be back to normal. Make the most of the isolation, there is plenty to do to continue looksmaxxing. I've replaced my entire spring / summer wardrobe with online shopping, experimenting with grooming by dyeing hair, eyebrows etc., new skin products, even tried fake tan that went disastrously wrong but who gives a damn cuz no one will see. Make the most of it.


----------



## Xander578 (Apr 12, 2020)

Holy shit this thread is full of long replies I did not read


----------



## Adrenochrome (Apr 12, 2020)

ProjectAscension said:


> OP has lost the plot. This forum is for looksmaxxing, we want surgery feedback and results not conspiracy theories.
> 
> This lockdown situation is temporary and in 3 months we'll mostly be back to normal. Make the most of the isolation, there is plenty to do to continue looksmaxxing. I've replaced my entire spring / summer wardrobe with online shopping, experimenting with grooming by dyeing hair, eyebrows etc., new skin products, even tried fake tan that went disastrously wrong but who gives a damn cuz no one will see. Make the most of it.



I'm sorry you can't synthesize facts that are laid out for you and that you don't understand the implications of such on our lifestyle. 

The two are intertwined and I've already given you, as well as this forum, PLENTY OF FEEDBACK/INFORMATION (more than necessary in terms of surgical procedures and outcomes) pertaining to MY personal experiences. 

It's a fucking gold mine but you don't seem to appreciate it.

I'll take that into consideration moving forward.

As far as this lockdown being temporary... OK ... as you say (even though there have already been discussions of 3 + months cycling the lockdown on/off until next year) and then what about the next "viral outbreak" (because there will be more). 
------------------------------

and @CristianT ....wtf?! really bro... ok ( :


----------



## CristianT (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> I'm sorry you can't synthesize facts that are laid out for you and that you don't understand the implications of such on our lifestyle.
> 
> The two are intertwined and I've already given you, as well as this forum, PLENTY OF FEEDBACK/INFORMATION (more than necessary in terms of surgical procedures and outcomes) pertaining to MY personal experiences.
> 
> ...


Yea.. Very hard to judge without actually pictures.. sorry bro :/. I even dm you and you completley ignored... I am a 26 y.o serious dude who just wants to ascened like you bro..Im not gonna dox.. anyway.. sorry to dissapoint you.


----------



## Adrenochrome (Apr 12, 2020)

CristianT said:


> Yea.. sorry. Very hard to judge without actually pictures.. sorry bro :/



It's cool, you knew from the get go there were no photos.
Furthermore, you should have been able to draw your own conclusions based on the information that I've provided you (which is plenty).

*EDIT: In response to your edit/reply* -Brother, I didn't even see your DM until AFTER our small exchange here (and tbh I felt super bad) but my experience IN WORDS should be enough.

I've given you guys the play by play, down to the last detail. 

If YOU @CristianT feel comfortable with Defrancq and what he said/showed you, resonated with you; then by all means carry on m8 but I KNOW that for ME he wasn't the correct choice.

What I also know, is that I now (as a direct result of Defrancq) have incorrect masseter insertion on one side of my face which is causing extreme asymmetry from the bulge. Aesthetically incompetent. He turned me into an asymmetric normie, with extreme soft tissue displacement. I look like a fucking Picasso painting.

This inept castrated the vertical length and projection of my chin. He misplaced muscle insertions on one side of my face and miscalculated the necessary horizontal length required on one side of my face to keep the skin taut.

^ ^ If you want me to translate the exact write up that was in 0s and 1s i.e. binary language, then I'll post it up so that my thoughts are crystal clear for people on Defrancq.

Also, yes, perhaps our standards are drastically different (I'm trying to get back to where I was just starting in modeling) which is on the extreme end (who knows, maybe I'll never reach that level again but I'll be damned if I settle for anything less than what my aesthetic vision is) and maybe your version of ascending is not mine (that's reasonable right?).

Anyways, I wish you all the best man.

------------------end edit------------------------

Doesn't matter though, people here don't appreciate: Thread's getting nuked ☢💥

Peace to you ☮


----------



## CristianT (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> It's cool, you knew from the get go there were no photos.
> Furthermore, you should have been able to draw your own conclusions based on the information that I've provided you (which is plenty).
> 
> Doesn't matter though, people here don't appreciate: Threads getting nuked ☢💥
> ...


I will still go with him after this coronashit and will share my results to help others. Not only information, actual results though. 
People talk-talk🗣🗣 but without actual pictures you cant judge. Im saying this bcs last time i had nose job and i was searching for a surgeon ive read many bad reviews about him and guess what they had all in comun? Bingo, not even single one of them had pictures. And guess one more thing? I love the result of the surgery.. so now you can see my motive behind this change of attitude.

Anyhow, peace to you as well. Ciau.


----------



## Barbarossa_ (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Interesting take on the situation, though I'm glad you're happy brother 💯


I know it made me sound like an evil nihilist bro but through out my life all I wanted is to be left alone and treated like a human but no I have to pay a mofo to saw off the bones in my face 3000 miles away from home JFL it's pathetic.

Anyways man everyone likes you here so you should make a discord server called "LMS Cartel" if you have time, where only true surgery maxxers can join (with proof) and we can share private shit in there like pics/advice/surgeons  I'll be the first to call you boss  lol


----------



## ProjectAscension (Apr 12, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> I'm sorry you can't synthesize facts that are laid out for you and that you don't understand the implications of such on our lifestyle.
> 
> The two are intertwined and I've already given you, as well as this forum, PLENTY OF FEEDBACK/INFORMATION (more than necessary in terms of surgical procedures and outcomes) pertaining to MY personal experiences.
> 
> ...



Hopefully the next viral outbreak won't happen anytime soon. This is the first time western countries have had to take such drastic action so the chances of such a virus developing and spreading as this one has must be pretty slim. Either way, governments will be more prepared to deal with them in future after this.

I don't want to come across as unappreciative, this thread _*is*_ a goldmine and I've been following it since the start. I've got a consultation booked with Defrancq but am seriously considering cancelling it based on your feedback and others on the forum. It's just many of us have been waiting for more details of your recovery and after reading through two tinfoil hat essays there was only one relevant part, a small paragraph for some reason translated into binary. You don't owe us anything of course, you've already invested a lot of time writing posts here. Anyway, pls don't nuke the thread. There is a lot of good information, us hardmaxxers are a minority and every experience helps guide another towards ascension.


----------



## paulus1 (Apr 13, 2020)

Damn Adrenochrome, sorry to hear the results are not what you expected, hope Dr. Y is able to fix it back up to what you actually wanted.

What do you think Dr. Y did wrong (the first time)? What made his surgery cause an infection and Defrancq's surgery didn't?

I went to see Defrancq, i liked him, nice guy (first impression of course), but the only thing I'm interested in are results, and his website just doesn't show anything that I'm aesthetically impressed with, he seems capable tho, but just as you said, he doesn't have the aesthetic eye of a plastic surgeon.

Based on your experience, who would you recommend for (the most aesthetic) genioplasty? I've had a consultation with Ramieri (great first impression) and soon with Dr. Z. Should I go for Dr. Y? Does he even do genioplasty or only chin implants? Who is the top surgeon for genioplasty? And perhaps chin-wing. Altho they all told me I don't need it. But I think it would benefit me. All input is appreciated!

Stay strong bro! You seem extremely persistent, i'm sure you'll get where you want to be.


----------



## suddenurge (Apr 14, 2020)

@Adrenochrome. I am gutted to read that Defrancq fucked up your jawline. I really thought that with a design blueprint from Dr. Y even this muppet could not possibly fail. Although your results are not going to change much from hereon, there is probably still some residual swelling left, which means that there is still some room for a slight improvement. I know it is not a comfort, but imagine how disastrous it would have been if you had let him use his own design. The fact that he displaced/ripped your masseter muscle is not a surprise, you are the third person I know that had jaw implant surgery with Defrancq, and he did this to all of you. 

Personally, I think Defrancq is a psychopath and should be avoided at all costs. As I wrote in this post at the end of February https://looksmax.org/threads/silicone-vs-peek-implants-what-mogs-and-why.105451/post-1786953 :

_"Defrancq is just a traditional maxfac who ventured into the lucrative area of custom facial implants. He is only in it for the shekels and completely lacks an aesthetic eye. He totally botched the design of my friend's jaw implant with only 3 days remaining to the scheduled surgery and then proceeded to manufacture it without explicit consent. He then lied through his teeth to convince my friend to go through with the surgery. Of course, by then the money had already been deposited and to get out of the surgery, my friend would have to pay for the design and manufacture of the implant (around 4500 euros) plus 30% of all fees related to the surgery and after care. My friend ended up with an oblong face, and an undefined jawline and chin. To top it off, Defrancq ripped both of his masseter muscles. He looks worse now than before surgery and now hides his lower third under a beard. When he brought up the fact that the result looked nothing like what Defrancq had promised, Defrancq told him to go see a shrink. Brutal."_


----------



## Adrenochrome (Apr 14, 2020)

ProjectAscension said:


> Hopefully the next viral outbreak won't happen anytime soon. This is the first time western countries have had to take such drastic action so the chances of such a virus developing and spreading as this one has must be pretty slim. Either way, governments will be more prepared to deal with them in future after this.
> 
> I don't want to come across as unappreciative, this thread _*is*_ a goldmine and I've been following it since the start. I've got a consultation booked with Defrancq but am seriously considering cancelling it based on your feedback and others on the forum. It's just many of us have been waiting for more details of your recovery and after reading through two tinfoil hat essays there was only one relevant part, a small paragraph for some reason translated into binary. You don't owe us anything of course, you've already invested a lot of time writing posts here. Anyway, pls don't nuke the thread. There is a lot of good information, us hardmaxxers are a minority and every experience helps guide another towards ascension.



Fair enough... honestly you've some just points that I agree with to an extent.

I was (and am) feeling a certain way about everything (given the times and circumstances we've all been thrust into, by no choice of our own) which is why I wrote what I did, in the way that I did.

My point was (which seems to have been missed by many) is that this pandemic affects all aspects of our lives, including the most important: looksmaxing to ascend (maybe I went too deep into details i.e. gave you guys too much at once but it's all intertwined).

I'm trying to fix my situation (AGAIN) because of this doofus Defrancq and I'm trying to do it quickly but I can't*, because of this coronavirus pandemic.* I don't even know if I'll be able to have surgery this year because everyone is in a state of fear and panic.

I agree with you that we should make the most of this lock-down in terms of looksmaxing (enhance your routine, experiment with different techniques and/or plan/design your surgeries etc...) IF this lockdown is temporary. However, I honestly don't think it will be ... they are saying (on the news mind you) 18 months of cycling this on/off (that doesn't even include the next wave of lock-downs for the following viral outbreaks that they've predicated).

First of all, with lock down and social distancing, what is the point of trying to flex your aesthetics in this environment? Nothing is open... literally every social option has been taken off the table (in some areas you can't even walk around unless it's to go and buy food). Even if you are out and about, nearly every person is wearing a mask now... (you're not seeing their face and most likely, they're not seeing/thinking about your's) for a multitude of reasons which I discussed: social distancing, negative reinforcement, "survival mode" and/or simply don't care.

Second, if this lock-down does continue, obviously it's going to wreck the economy (it already has to a great extent) i.e. America will never be at (financially/economically speaking) the level it was before and it's only been just shy of a month. Any longer than this, it's going to be disastrous, then do you really think that looksmaxing is going to be a priority when the country is crumbling? (seriously.... ). Look at the hoarding behavior that ensued (and continues to) when there was just a small hint of something bad to come. Now, imagine that behavior applied to a situation 100x worse where the country is literally falling apart... nobody will be thinking about the trivial nature of looking their best or looksmaxing or surgeries etc... by that time.... it's over (worst case scenario).

Third, that behavior I just talked about is all being stoked by fear... and as I said before, fear leads to irrational choices such as giving up your civil liberties in the name of safety (which is what's happening right now). Listen, I gave you guys verifiable and authoritative sources, concerning what's happening and what's on the horizon. Fauci is talking about Coronavirus immunity cards/passports that Americans will be required to have in order to end the lock-down and Bill Gates is talking about global vaccinations via "digital certificates" i.e. Quantum dot tattoos (delivered into the skin using hi-tech dissolvable microneedles, that the vaccine is woven into) that Americans and eventually every other country will be required to have in order to work, travel and bank with (if you don't have it, you can't do any of the aforementioned). *Point being, things that used to be simple and easy to do, will get much more difficult (which includes looksmaxing and I gave you examples of how this is already happening now with my CT scans). *At the same time, people will lose their rights and privacy in the name of "safety" while the surveillance state increases but they (we) don't have to! (if only people resist these authoritarian/totalitarian tactics). I'm not saying get violent, I'm saying get vocal and speak up against these issues (tell people what's going etc...).

Now, with all of that said, I HOPE you're right and I will GLADLY eat my words (but I'm very pessimistic at this point).




paulus1 said:


> Damn Adrenochrome, sorry to hear the results are not what you expected, hope Dr. Y is able to fix it back up to what you actually wanted.
> 
> What do you think Dr. Y did wrong (the first time)? What made his surgery cause an infection and Defrancq's surgery didn't?



Thanks very much brother! (me too)

Ahh... it's very difficult to say... but I strongly believe that it was actually because of the EXTERNAL approach he used under the chin (which is ironic because statistically, external incisions are supposed to be safer than internal incisions with respect to this procedure). That's where the infection started (under the chin) and eventually, that's where it ended (aspirated a HUGE fluid filled lump under chin).

Defrancq used all internal incisions which again is supposed to be more susceptible to infection, comparatively to external incisions; plus considering that the incision lines were much larger and deeper due to the type of material being used, the outcome was very surprising to me... (obviously in a good way, regarding stability).

Also and very important to note, I was just looking at some old antibiotics I had from Y (extra) and comparing them to the extra A/B's I had from Defrancq: it turns out that Y. uses very low dose A/B's (around 250mg) whereas Defrancq uses much higher doses (500-800+mg) AND more than one type in combination with each other; for longer duration periods. I really think that highly contributed to why I didn't incur infection this time. In-fact, I'm going to use the extra A/B's from Defrancq when I have surgery with Y again (there's A LOT left over).



paulus1 said:


> I went to see Defrancq, i liked him, nice guy (first impression of course),* but the only thing I'm interested in are results*, *and his website just doesn't show anything that I'm aesthetically impressed wit*h, he seems capable tho, but just as you said, *he doesn't have the aesthetic eye of a plastic surgeon.*



Exactly



paulus1 said:


> Based on your experience, who would you recommend for (the most aesthetic) genioplasty? I've had a consultation with Ramieri (great first impression) and soon with Dr. Z. Should I go for Dr. Y? Does he even do genioplasty or only chin implants? Who is the top surgeon for genioplasty? And perhaps chin-wing.* Altho they all told me I don't need it.* But I think it would benefit me. All input is appreciated!



Honestly (from my personal experience), I would NOT recommend getting a genioplasty. I looked much better with implants in the mentum region than with the genio (too many variables to take into consideration and if it gets messed up, I think it's going to be much more difficult to fix).

Regarding Y.... he does do them BUT VERY rarely. I even tried to push for one with my first surgery and he was vehemently against it (and you know what? He was right!). If surgeons (two or more) are telling you that you don't need it... I would heed their word.



paulus1 said:


> Stay strong bro! You seem extremely persistent, i'm sure you'll get where you want to be.



Cheers m8, you're a boss brother! Keep me updated on your journey.





suddenurge said:


> @Adrenochrome. I am gutted to read that Defrancq fucked up your jawline. I really thought that with a design blueprint from Dr. Y even this muppet could not possibly fail. Although your results are not going to change much from hereon, there is probably still some residual swelling left, which means that there is still some room for a slight improvement. I know it is not a comfort, but imagine how disastrous it would have been if you had let him use his own design. The fact that he displaced/ripped your masseter muscle is not a surprise, you are the third person I know that had jaw implant surgery with Defrancq, and he did this to all of you.



Thank you for your kind sentiment, I appreciate it.

Right... on paper the idea was flawless but real life execution proved otherwise: it's his extreme beta bias that wreaks havoc on EVERYTHING.




suddenurge said:


> Personally, I think Defrancq is a psychopath and should be avoided at all costs. As I wrote in this post at the end of February https://looksmax.org/threads/silicone-vs-peek-implants-what-mogs-and-why.105451/post-1786953 :




I keep trying to tell people here that he's *GREASY *(being very generous with my description) and tries to worm his way out of fucking things up via constant chit chat (backtracking/twisting words/tries to make the other person feel guilty etc...) but they really seem blinded by the facade of this "innocent/pleasant" demeanor that he attempts to ruse people with (which is exactly what a psychopath does, as you've so aptly pointed out)

I had to check him more than a few times i.e. verbally assault and metaphorically grip; to make sure he did exactly as I said, as well as follow through with what HE said he would do.

God it was fucking tiring playing to his fragile ego whilst at the same time, CRUSHING it to keep him in check (build him up, break him down)



suddenurge said:


> *"Defrancq is just a traditional maxfac who ventured into the lucrative area of custom facial implants. He is only in it for the shekels and completely lacks an aesthetic eye. *_He totally botched the design of my friend's jaw implant with only 3 days remaining to the scheduled surgery and then proceeded to manufacture it without explicit consent. He then lied through his teeth to convince my friend to go through with the surgery. Of course, by then the money had already been deposited and to get out of the surgery, my friend would have to pay for the design and manufacture of the implant (around 4500 euros) plus 30% of all fees related to the surgery and after care. My friend ended up with an oblong face, and an undefined jawline and chin. To top it off, Defrancq ripped both of his masseter muscles. He looks worse now than before surgery and now hides his lower third under a beard. When he brought up the fact that the result looked nothing like what Defrancq had promised, Defrancq told him to go see a shrink. Brutal."_



FUCKING NAILED IT - THANK YOU!
*🔨**🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨*




suddenurge said:


> He totally botched the design of my friend's jaw implant with only *3 days remaining to the scheduled surgery*



Tried to do the same God damn thing to me -degenerate dirtbag


@suddenurge how's your friend holding up now and what (if anything) has he decided to do, to fix his situation?


----------



## Entschuldigung (Apr 14, 2020)

Too much text and no pics 
Sure I'm reading


----------



## RAITEIII (Apr 14, 2020)

Bro every message of you is almost the whole page long jfl. 

Mirin anyway I've learned a few things


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## Perma Virgin 666 (Apr 14, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Second, if this lock-down does continue, obviously it's going to wreck the economy (it already has to a great extent) i.e. America will never be at (financially/economically speaking) the level it was before and it's only been just shy of a month. Any longer than this, it's going to be disastrous, then do you really think that looksmaxing is going to be a priority when the country is crumbling? (seriously.... ). Look at the hoarding behavior that ensued (and continues to) when there was just a small hint of something bad to come. Now, imagine that behavior applied to a situation 100x worse where the country is literally falling apart... nobody will be thinking about the trivial nature of looking their best or looksmaxing or surgeries etc... by that time.... it's over (worst case scenario).


the worst case scenario doesnt mean its over, it means the beginning of something new. Idk how aware you are of everything, but the reason you have to put up with "looksmaxxing" to "ascend" is because of the biggest failo western society has ever committed and that is feminism.
feminism = liberation of femoids = hypergamy.

The best case szenario for us would literally be the worst case szenario. Let everything crash, the deadlier the virus becomes the more important a traditional way of living will be. Because society will be forced to go back to focus on the necessities.

if only we could have a virus that is so deadly and spreads so agressively that even the jewish rats are unprepared for a happening like that, that would be IDEAL. Probably not gonna happen though, it is more likely that in a year or two things are back to normal and you can continue your journey of looksmaxxing. which will probably lead nowhere lets be honest here, no one can beat hypergamy: its a game meant to be lost.


----------



## suddenurge (Apr 14, 2020)

@Adrenochrome. We have not talked about it for a while now, but when it went down he was absolutely gutted by the beta result Defrancq gave him. Defrancq built up his expectations for something that he had wanted for so long and then brutally betrayed him. Defrancq totally played on his weaknesses and desires knowing that he would never deliver on those dreams. Already a few weeks after surgery, he completely realized that Defrancq had pulled a fast one on him. So he had to go through months of waiting for the swelling to subside, not knowing how bad it would come out, only that it would almost certainly be a looksmin. It turned him into a mental case, the only thing he could think about 24/7 was what the final result would look like. Luckily he is one of those guys who can grow a nice beard, so that saved him in the end. I know that he wants to have another surgery, but I am not sure he can learn to trust another doctor. Even if, the cost of a new surgery, flights, hotels, and loss of income whilst being away from work for at least 1-2 months, is not negligible. He is not wealthy, he just has a regular job in retail.


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## Brandon10 (Apr 16, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *As always, shout out to my Sicarios, mis compañeros de cultura estetica (LMS CARTEL).* These gentleman live the life I live (or are on track to) and have faced the same, if not similar challenges in the LMS game.
> 
> @Linoob
> @Brandon10
> ...



What a legendary post, holy shit. If you didn't read all of it, too bad, you're a NWO gullible sheep.

As far as the binary section goes, I'm really sorry for your experience, looks like E & Y have the upper hand on this. Good luck booking surgery with them in the near future though.

You're king anyway man huge respect for going through all this.


----------



## Anonymous999 (Apr 16, 2020)

*To everyone on this thread and to the OP:

This is not a joke. Please read this.*

I created this account because I came across this thread through Google researching PEEK jaw implants external approach. I had never heard of this website before.

I started reading the OP's story and was paralyzed. I was like, "Did I accidentally start this thread in a parallel universe and just forgot?"

*I also had surgery with Dr. Y and my story **mirrors the OP's to a T, except I had NOT ONE, BUT TWO infections with Dr. Yaremchuk - back to back.*

At first I saw the OP mention "Dr. Y." And I was thinking, "Wait, but he can't be talking about Dr. Yaremchuk right?"

Then he talks about having had an infection and traveling to and from Boston from across the world.

I too went through this same experience with Dr. Y.

Multiple flights. Multiple hotel bookings. Tens of thousands of dollars gone. Months of emotional turmoil. Suicidal ideation. Lack of communication or empathy from Dr. Y.

I forwarded this thread to a friend who knows about my story and what I've been going through. My friend was equally in disbelief / paralyzed by it. Essentially to the effect of: 1) Cannot believe you didn't write this thread yourself, and 2) Cannot believe you are not the only one.

I don't really know where to start in terms of my story. I could sit here for hours and write everything out + post photos here. Some of you may request that. The whole process would take me a long time. This short post does not begin to do justice for what I went through and am still going through.

I want to preserve my anonymity.

However when I see this long thread of guys who are considering surgery on this website - and that is their/your prerogative - I needed to let my story be known here. At least the existence of it.

My marginal mandibular nerve on one side has also been damaged due to the surgeries. Everything I have read online says the nerve should recover in maximum of 6 months. It has been longer than that for me and I still cannot smile normally. I also have permanent structural damage to the inside of my mouth requiring two periodontal surgeries totaling many thousands of dollars.

I went through many dark months - a black period of my life - like a deep, deep hole of despair and darkness. Suicidal ideation. I have risen above it and am doing better. I still have nights trouble falling asleep.

Most disappointing thing is: not once did Dr. Yaremchuk ever reach out and ask how I was doing. Not once did he say he was sorry for what I was going through. Not once did he show any empathy. He also will not respond well through email. He will have his surgical fellow do the correspondence.

I don't know if Dr. Yaremchuk will ever come across this post of mine. If he does, he will know it's me. And I would say to you: I forgive you for what's happened. I don't think you're a bad person at heart. I know you wouldn't have wished this for me. Just would have meant the world to me if you had reached out even once to ask how I was doing.

---

Don't know who the following people are, but tagging you here from above to bring more awareness to my story. This isn't about me. It's about bringing awareness to you.

@Linoob
@Brandon10
@CristianT
@Barbarossa_
@AlexChase89
@Sal123
@Golden Glass
@crosshold
@Morpheus
@suddenurge
@kota
@Dr Shekelberg
@anti caking agents
@highT
@nastynas
@Britsky
@6ft4
@Joyride
@Cardiologyscribe
@ChaddeusPeuterschmit
@Chowdog
@Theonewhowillascend
@fonzee98
@Gonion
@Solo
@paulus1
@Slayerino
@ProjectAscension


----------



## livelaughlooksmax (Apr 16, 2020)

Terrible to hear mate, what implants did you get?


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## reptiles (Apr 16, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Thanks brother! It's natural when passionate about speaking to personal experience and just trying to open people's eyes to the deception that has veiled them.
> 
> It's interesting how intertwined looksmaxing is with current events but really, it can and does apply to any topic because this "crisis" affects literally everyone around the world in many more ways than simply from a medical standpoint (people's civil liberties are at stake and they're "asleep behind the wheel"). How are you going to looksmax if you're "locked up" and everyone/everything else is immobile?
> 
> ...






I have a feeling this whole social isolation thing is gonna be a new way of life but good sources ngl the kikes hide it so well that unless you know what to search for you will never find them


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## Saltner (Apr 16, 2020)

So eppley will release your personal information not caring about rules and guidelines for surgeons plus some of his results aren't nice anyway ( specially for the thing I want ).

Defranq won't give good results worse is an psychopath ( well I never saw a good result from him anyway )

And with Dr Y you have a high chance of infection? Damn who do you go to then? Imo yaremchuk gives the best result but what's the use if you get infected? Maybe you could try to smuggle antibiotics through the airport when you have surgery with yaremchuk but I wonder if that's any good.

Which surgeon are you supposed to go then?


----------



## Adrenochrome (Apr 16, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *To everyone on this thread and to the OP:
> 
> This is not a joke. Please read this.*
> 
> ...




*HOL - LEE FUCK (excuse my vulgarity)*.... but I KNEW IT! I KNEW I COULD *NOT* HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE (@ Dr. Y), THIS IS INSANE and from what you've just written, maybe I should consider myself lucky?

Firstly, @Anonymous999 I'm *SO* sorry that you've been anathematized with this aesthetic (and functional) affliction. Jesus man, it is a psychological roller-coaster of torment, that molests the mind in an infinite number of ways.

I'm glad that you're doing a little better now because I KNOW it's BRUTAL.

Second, honestly I'm thankful that you decided to speak out and share your story (this must have been an extremely difficult decision, even in lieu of anonymity); so thank you for this.

Third, please do (if you can and feel up to it) expand on your prior experience with Y., how you dealt with everything and what (if anything) you're doing or considering now; to remedy what happened.

***Important: With your prior implants, were they placed 100% intraorally (all incisions inside your mouth) or a combination of the aforementioned? (jaw via inside the mouth and chin portion via externally under the chin),

Also, what was the material?




Anonymous999 said:


> Most disappointing thing is: not once did Dr. Yaremchuk ever reach out and ask how I was doing. Not once did he say he was sorry for what I was going through. Not once did he show any empathy.



I mentioned once before that I had stockholm syndrome for Dr. Y. after what happened (the experience was so traumatic and paralyzing) that I was still in disbelief and defended every action, choice and decision that he made (no matter how poor it was for myself). I was looking through a glass darkly, however; I soon came to realize the imperfect picture (warped vision of reality).

To be fair, Dr. Y. stood by me in a sense (more than minimal) but perhaps just plumb of righteous. However, I FOR SURE can see and understand where you're coming from and how you felt (ABSOLUTELY).


Anonymous999 said:


> I don't know if Dr. Yaremchuk will ever come across this post of mine. If he does, he will know it's me. And I would say to you: I forgive you for what's happened. I don't think you're a bad person at heart. I know you wouldn't have wished this for me. Just would have meant the world to me if you had reached out even once to ask how I was doing.




Ahhh man... 🤦🏻‍♂️ this hurts for real ... I hope you can heal 💯 Let's talk (I'll PM you).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




RAITEIII said:


> Bro every message of you is almost the whole page long jfl.
> 
> Mirin anyway I've learned a few things



😂 sorry for the novels ha 📚 📖 and thanks for the appreciation brother! 💯 I'm glad if you (or anyone else) can take something away (learn) from my experience.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Perma Virgin 666 said:


> the worst case scenario doesnt mean its over, it means the beginning of something new.



True and well said: a good perspective in lieu of troubled times.




Perma Virgin 666 said:


> the biggest failo western society has ever committed and that is feminism.
> feminism = liberation of femoids = hypergamy.



Yes... feminism (particularly second and third wave i.e. radical feminism) was one mechanism deployed to cripple and crush American (as well as European) culture (unfortunately it worked). Feminism in it's original form, was _supposed_ to be about equal rights, akin to the civil rights movement *(under the guise thereof)* but the powers that be, sowed the seeds of descent (as they always do with these types of "cultural movements") and corrupted it entirely.




Perma Virgin 666 said:


> Let everything crash, the deadlier the virus becomes the more important a traditional way of living will be. Because society will be forced to go back to focus on the necessities.



I don't want to see the world burn but if it does come to that (and it very well may) then that's an excellent point: a complete RESET.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



suddenurge said:


> *I know that he wants to have another surgery, but I am not sure he can learn to trust another doctor.* Even if, the cost of a new surgery, flights, hotels, and loss of income whilst being away from work for at least 1-2 months, is not negligible. He is not wealthy, he just has a regular job in retail.



It's a very delicate dance ... (I'm still trying to figure it out myself) but I hope that he heals, pushes forward and can ascend 💯


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Brandon10 said:


> What a legendary post, holy shit. If you didn't read all of it, too bad, you're a NWO gullible sheep.
> 
> As far as the binary section goes, I'm really sorry for your experience, looks like E & Y have the upper hand on this. Good luck booking surgery with them in the near future though.
> 
> You're king anyway man huge respect for going through all this.



You're always *ACES *my guy 🂡 🂡 🂡 TOP shelf 🤵🏻 💯


You're right about E&Y but they are SUCH a gamble man 🎲 🎲 You've got Y. who can give you the absolute BEST aesthetic outcome but has a HIGH instance of infection and then you have E. who might be more viable in terms of stability but is not as aesthetically proficient.


YO! @Barbarossa_ and myself are starting something new and I want you in on it 📿🤝🏻🩸


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




reptiles said:


> I have a feeling this whole social isolation thing is gonna be a new way of life



Agreed (it's already been stated) they are LITERALLY saying this across multiple news outlets but people don't want to listen man.

Brother, I've read some of your posts on these topics (New world order, destruction of the West etc...) and agree with many of your thoughts (not so much on the J theme: too murky but understand why people head in that direction)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Saltner said:


> So eppley will release your personal information not caring about rules and guidelines for surgeons plus some of his results aren't nice anyway ( specially for the thing I want ).




Eh!? First I'm hearing of this... obviously unethical if true and super twisted.




Saltner said:


> Defranq won't give good results worse is an psychopath ( well I never saw a good result from him anyway )
> 
> And with Dr Y you have a high chance of infection? Damn who do you go to then? Imo yaremchuk gives the best result but what's the use if you get infected? Maybe you could try to smuggle antibiotics through the airport when you have surgery with yaremchuk but I wonder if that's any good.
> 
> *Which surgeon are you supposed to go then?*



I knowwwww it's a crazy game (dangerous too) and as I mentioned above, always a delicate dance:

I agree with you about Y. and also, (I mentioned this too) IF I decide to move forward with him again, I will for sure be using the higher caliber antibiotics that Defrancq gave me.

Moreover, after reading what the user @Anonymous999 wrote, I'm getting bad vibes about trying with Dr. Y. again... it ACTUALLY made me consider reaching out to E. (can't believe I'm saying that) and I just might.


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## Barbarossa_ (Apr 16, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> You're always *ACES *my guy 🂡 🂡 🂡 TOP shelf 🤵🏻 💯
> 
> 
> You're right about E&Y but they are SUCH a gamble man 🎲 🎲 You've got Y. who can give you the absolute BEST aesthetic outcome but has a HIGH instance of infection and then you have E. who might be more viable in terms of stability but is not as aesthetically proficient.
> ...


Lol I PMed you about your discord bro I couldn't find you by your username there
and I read that you wanna go back to Dr. Y...

Bro could you please just take this year off and grow a beard?
You need to recover mentally, financially and physically imo


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## Dr.austeer (Apr 16, 2020)

No way, I’m new to this website , I joined because I had to comment here after reading this from a link in google . I HAD THE EXACT THING. I got first surgery done with Eppley using silicon, but after reading that silicon could displace in the future I wanted it changing to peek , so I went to dr Noorman van der Dussen who is a very close friend of dr defrancq. Actually dr defrancq was also operating on me too with Noorman which was weird. I found this all out when I was in the operating bed . Defrancq secretary is Noorman daughter . But back to the result, first couple of weeks it came out just like the previous just more swelling but after a year I lost the angularity. It’s mainly due to the masseter muscle - I feel so depressed even suicidal. We should help each other fix this . I see u as hope . I can’t go back to Eppley because he warned me of getting the silicon removed. I’m always crying inside and super self conscious now


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## Bewusst (Apr 16, 2020)

Lol @ everyone who believes in these cringy conspiracy theories such as Qanon


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## LDNPari (Apr 16, 2020)

Dr.austeer said:


> No way, I’m new to this website , I joined because I had to comment here after reading this from a link in google . I HAD THE EXACT THING. I got first surgery done with Eppley using silicon, but after reading that silicon could displace in the future I wanted it changing to peek , so I went to dr Noorman van der Dussen who is a very close friend of dr defrancq. Actually dr defrancq was also operating on me too with Noorman which was weird. I found this all out when I was in the operating bed . Defrancq secretary is Noorman daughter . But back to the result, first couple of weeks it came out just like the previous just more swelling but after a year I lost the angularity. It’s mainly due to the masseter muscle - I feel so depressed even suicidal. We should help each other fix this . I see u as hope . I can’t go back to Eppley because he warned me of getting the silicon removed. I’m always crying inside and super self conscious now



u should've just kept the silicone bro


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## Dr.austeer (Apr 16, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> u should've just kept the silicone bro


I know , but the future problems were stressing me out it made me felt depressed. I’d be over the moon if I can fix the angularity


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 16, 2020)

*More on my story:*

I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.

So now you're probably wondering how this relates to my above post with the infections.

*Continue reading.*

Because my prior implants were not CT designed, he placed them the "bespoke" way, where he custom carved them during surgery. This sounds fancy, but you do _not_ want to go this route.

Regarding the cheeks/infraorbital rim from 12 years ago:

The left side was designed slightly larger than the right. My suspicion is he made the left cheek 3-4 mm, and the right ~2mm.

Regarding the chin/jaw from 12 years ago:

Immediately after my chin/jaw surgery, literally the first time I got up to go to the bathroom still sedated in the recovery area, I noticed the left side of my chin was much larger than the right. I mentioned that to the nurse. She said "Dr. Y is a perfectionist. Impossible to know till swelling goes down. This is normal." But I wasn't wrong.

My final result was I had noticeable asymmetry in my chin for nearly 12 years that never stopped bothering me. This wasn't just self hyper-analysis where one is conscious of every millimeter. Essentially the left side was made significantly wider and larger than the right, where the most anterior part of the implant on the left extended laterally to the corner of my lips, but on the right, the implant receded back pretty close to the midline. Possibly a difference of at least 6-7mm. Think of it like someone you may know who has an asymmetry but you just don't say anything. I imagine that's how people were with me, just never saying anything. And I just learned to deal with it. But it became something I always started touching/palpating - a habit, like biting one's nails.

Because the cheek and chin on the left side were larger than on the right, this resulted in me always wanting to angle myself a certain way in photos because my left side looked slightly better.

Fast-forward 12 years:

I was videotaped doing something (up till this stage I never saw myself on video as an adult), and noticed the asymmetry. In photos I could angle my face to make myself look better and hide it, but on video I couldn't mask the asymmetry. It was so bad I didn't even want that video made public (and I didn't make it public).

This was the impetus for me reaching out to Dr Y again nearly 11-12 years later (a year and a half ago). He agreed to make the chin more symmetric, and even larger this time. He said we could accomplish this using a silicone Terino L-size square implant + add MedPor to it. Everything sounded great.

When I went in, I basically reiterated, "1) Symmetry symmetry symmetry. 2) Now that we're here, yes, larger. 3) Can you put a cleft in it?"

After the surgery, I noticed the chin was literally the same exact shape but just larger, so now the asymmetry was even worse. No cleft either. I also had a tail from the underlying silicone implant very palpable under the jawline on the left.

I asked the nurse about this and she agreed that it was again very asymmetrical. She was in the surgery and said that they had spent a lot of time intraoperatively trying to burr down the left side of the original implant.

I raised this point to him immediately in the recovery area the next morning about the asymmetry. He did his analysis and got me back into surgery that same afternoon (so two surgeries in less than 24 hours) - i.e., clearly he agreed with my assessment about the asymmetry. He then added MedPor to the right side to make it look more like the left. Basically layered stacks of MedPor.

My final result once again had no cleft, but it finally looked more symmetric. I called this the "paper mache chin," as it was literally various pieces of MedPor and silicone stuck and sewn together asymmetrically. On the outside, you wouldn't be able to tell, but for me, it really disturbed me. Months later after the swelling subsided, it would "crunch" and "crackle" when I'd push gently on the right side. Dr. Y reassured me the MedPor would not move but that I was just feeling the layers. As I said, I could also palpate and see the silicone implant tail under the mandible on the left. Once again, a "paper mache chin."

I then decided, "Well hey, he was able to make my chin more symmetric and slightly larger compared to 12 years ago, so he should be able to do the same for the cheeks right? I can finally have model cheeks maybe?"

So I contacted him again about the cheeks and we did custom CT designed malar implants. I said I wanted XXL size and had done my research on this stuff.

The first design came back ~5-5.5 mm on both sides. I knew this wasn't as big as I wanted, so I sent the design back.

The second design I received was 3.5 mm on the left and 5.5 mm on the right. What? How does that make sense? 1) I said I wanted larger, and 2) why all of a sudden is there now a 2 mm discrepancy between the sides, whereas in the first design they were within 0.2 mm of each other. I raised this point to Dr. Y + said I wanted XXL, once again. He said he would "talk to the engineers."

Third design came back as 7.4 mm on the right and 8.2 mm on the left. Good enough I thought. I basically went through an uncertainty period where I was like, "Will they be way too big? Will they not be big enough?" I just didn't know. But I figured it just wasn't a good bet pushing for larger. Everything I read online cautioned against going too large for cheeks.

I went in for the cheek surgery, and while I was in there preoperatively, I said to him, "Now that we're here, is it possible to take care of this palpable tail on the left side of my chin? And can you put a cleft in the chin?" Probably the third time I had asked him to put a cleft in the chin. He agreed to do the chin changes, but the focus was just eliminating the annoying palpable tail from the silicone implant. He didn't charge me extra for this.

After the surgery in the recovery area, they said things went well.

The nurse told me I didn't need to bother filling my antibiotic prescription because she could just give me the antibiotics I needed in a bag. So she did.

I took these as indicated for four days until they ran out. I thought this was unusual though because I recalled that 12 years earlier I had definitely been on antibiotics for at least a week. But I just didn't think anything of it. I had never had problems with surgery before and was too flustered with all of the swelling and sedation from pain meds to question the staff.

What I can comment on is something unusual about the bandages over the chin: something about how they made a cleft in it; this was not just a simple submental incision; there was a double-wire/filament of some kind on the outside of my chin pad that tracked into the underlying tissue itself - essentially a way for bugs to enter from the outside. I thought this was strange but, once again, I never had problems from surgery before so just didn't question it.

I spent a week in Boston doing standard post-operative recovery.

At one-week, they took the tapes off the chin and, *bang, I had a really noticeable cleft.* It looked stellar.

My midface was massively swollen so it was impossible to tell what the trajectory for the cheeks would be so far, but the chin looked great.

They then gave me the OK to fly back across the world.

This day that I was flying home I was the most confident about my looks that I've ever been in life. At least I got to taste it for a short window.

Within 24 hours of being home, I got a fever of 38.5 and a painful lymph node under my jaw. Crazy enough, I didn't even think anything of it and assumed maybe I was just unlucky and getting a cold but needed a day of rest.

Over the next two days I got really swollen around the chin. I thought it was just fluid from the midface moving downward.

I gently touched under the chin along the incision line and it felt very tenuous/thin. I knew something didn't feel right about it. I took a photo and could see pus through the skin. I touched it again, and my chin blew open and hot pus and blood fell out all over the floor. Lots of it. I freaked out and immediately took photos and sent to Dr. Y. He told me to come to Boston for treatment.

Bearing in mind, however, I live across the world, so I couldn't get there instantaneously.

I took an ambulance to the hospital and they opened the incision under the chin and irrigated all of the pus out. They also gave me antibiotics. I flew to Boston the next day and they put me on IV levofloxacin. We did two weeks of near-daily irrigation. I went on high-dose oral cephalexin + oral ciprofloxacin simultaneously. I had tubes/drains under my chin.

After two weeks, I had a small hole under my chin that was closing + granulating in. Dr. Y and the fellow said it looked a lot better and that it should close shortly. They gave me the OK to fly back across the world. I stayed on antibiotics for another ten days (so probably 3.5 weeks to a month).

After I went off the antibiotics, things got worse, not better. I took more photos and sent to Dr. Y.

I will never forget what happened next:

I was out with friends and I checked my email. It said, "There's clearly an infection present. Implants need to be removed. This can be done as soon as Monday. Please arrange with [Secretary]."

I was paralyzed. I didn't know what to do.

*I had had implants in for 12 years without any problem whatsoever. Now I was going to lose it all.*

I flew back to Boston and had the implants removed. I spent another two weeks there undergoing more drainage + had tubes under my chin.

But let's not lose hope. The plan was: recover quickly from this setback and get new CT-designed implants that will be even better than what I had before. Silver-lining right? Go through horrible infection + flying across the world + wasting all of this money, but, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. The irony is: I'll actually have better implants in the end that are perfectly symmetrical, larger, and even with a cleft.

Before I could move forward however, they charged me $5,000 for the implant removal. I found this odd, as they are the ones who caused the infection. But they were not willing to move forward on the CT design until I paid this. I was in such emotional turmoil over losing the implants that my sole focus was to streamline things and just pay, so I did.

Over the course of the following months, my cheeks healed well and, I have enough humility to not say they're modelesque, but they're a solid and striking feature for me now. I am glad I got the size I did. If you want "model" cheekbones, you need to push at least 7-8 mm. That might sound large, and it is, but I got the cheek result I was looking for. You could say I'm now someone you'd meet and notice my cheekbones as a feature.

We then designed a seemingly perfect chin/jaw wrap-around implant. I wanted this XXL, same as the cheeks. We also designed a cleft in it.

This is where things get weird again in terms of the design. He designed the right jaw angle 5mm larger than the left. I raised this concern to him. Looking at the CT, I could actually see for myself that my underlying bone structure was asymmetric, so I assumed, "OK, well a CT can't lie. I can see the difference for myself, so we'll run with it."

I did my research on sizes online and found quite a bit on Eppley. I had seen one or two cases where he did 15mm on each side of the jaw + 15mm on the chin with good result, so I had those as general guides for what to expect. I had also read Eppley say in one of his posts that chin implants could be as long as 17-19mm.

With Dr. Y, we did 20mm on the right side of my jaw; 15mm on the left. (Keep in mind my cheeks are now XXL as well). The chin was made 23mm anterior projection. The cleft we designed ~6-7mm deep.

Following the surgery, they said things went well but that they had to shave down the chin component to make it fit. This obliterated the cleft completely. The final result therefore must have been no greater than 15-17mm on the chin. They also could not fit in the anterior aspect of the jaw properly + had to shave it down. The posterior angles remained at 15 and 20 mm.

This discrepancy in size between the posterior angles was obvious following the surgery. Not sure how a CT scan can lie. But basically my right angle looked massive; the left one looked perfect. I was really disturbed by this asymmetry.

They also told me that the muscle and gingiva avulsed during the surgery and that they had to make intraoral incisions to suture things properly, but that, don't worry, because the incisions that were made were the exact same as would be made with an intraoral chin implant. In other words, "Had we gone intraoral to insert your chin implant, the incisions would be the same anyway, so don't worry. Things went well."

During the week of post-op follow-up in Boston, Dr. Y and the fellow stressed that the sutures he put under my teeth were “very sensitive” and that I needed to do everything I could not to disturb them by staying on a liquid/soft food diet + using the mouthwash as indicated + not touching, brushing, flossing, or even looking at the area for at least 3 weeks. I had expressed my concern a few times about not being able to brush/floss or even look at that area for at least three weeks, and he told me it was important and that, correct, I shouldn’t even look at the area so as to not disturb the “very sensitive sutures.” I then flew back home one week post-op.

After about one week home (so ~2 weeks post-op), I began developing increasing severe pain of my lower teeth and gums. This was something I simply couldn’t ignore. I took a very gentle peek and could see that the gums around my lower teeth were completely missing.

Until this point in my life, I had always had great teeth, so to see this was not only completely shocking, but terrifying. I emailed Dr. Y + clinic with photos, but he never responded directly to me. He always had the fellow (Dennis Nguyen) respond on his behalf.

The fellow said everything looked fine and to just not play with the area. But I knew something was incredibly wrong. I asked if I should go to a periodontist because of the root exposure. He said no I did not and that I should just let things heal as is. He also said the roots were not exposed.

I contacted a practicing dentist I know of 40 years. I sent the same photos to him and he said, “Not only are the roots exposed, the bone is exposed. You absolutely should see a periodontist to have him take a look.”

So the next day I went to a periodontist. I told him the details of my surgeries and how the sutures were “very sensitive” and to be very careful not to disturb anything. He took a look and immediately his face sank. He said to me that not only were my gums completely receded, but that I had a gaping hole about 13-14mm deep in which he could visibly see underlying muscle.

Because my implants were Medpor (porous, which allows bacteria to easily seed/hide), any opening to the oral cavity whatsoever is an immediate guarantee of infection + the need for implant removal. The perio then took three videos using my phone of my gums + the hole.

Bearing in mind, Dr. Yaremchuk + Dr. Nguyen had never mentioned the hole to me. They said everything went great.

I sent the videos by email to Dr. Y + clinic. I didn’t get a response, so I called them. After finally getting through, he looked at the videos and said that, yes, that hole was indeed present when I left Boston and that it had actually improved slightly. He said not to worry and that he would send an email to my perio, which he did.

The perio showed me the email in which Dr. Y admitted that there was a problem during the surgery and that the hole was present when I left Boston and had contracted slightly since. He said it should close in 10-14 days by secondary intention (on its own) and that irrigation should be fine.

In other words, Dr. Yaremchuk + Dr. Nguyen had never mentioned this gaping hole to me. Not only had they said the surgery went well, but they stressed not to look at the area whatsoever and to not go to a periodontist. *However had I not gone to the periodontist, I never would have known that hole was there.*

Isn't it reasonable to conclude that sending a patient home with an open intra-oral wound with Medpor implants guarantees infection? Perhaps Dr. Y and Dr. Nguyen knew that. And that's why they didn't want me to go to the perio, because they knew the hole would be discovered. Then, when I would finally present again with infection, they could play it off as things being unlucky as opposed to owning up to the fact that, yes, of course I had an infection again because the hole was clearly there.

I stayed on antibiotics for about three weeks after this surgery. I then began getting swelling again. I pushed on the bottom of my chin and pus came up through the hole in my mouth. I flew back to Boston and they removed the implants *a second time.* I spent another two weeks there undergoing drainage + tubes under my chin.

I then flew back across the world and, a week later, I coughed and one of the intraoral incisions from the jaw implants blew open and blood came rushing into my mouth. I couldn't stop the bleeding and lost about 700 mL of blood. Was all over the ground as if someone had been executed. I thought I was going to die and messaged my family telling them I was dying. Ambulance took me to the hospital. We stopped the bleeding by shoving gauze into my mouth. They cauterized the intraoral suture site at 3am and put in more sutures. I had those taken out a week later.

I emailed Dr. Y about losing blood and he said something along the lines of "Unusual trajectory" but that was it. He didn't even ask how I was doing. It became obvious he just wanted to bury the communication and slide me under the rug.

My gums were also destroyed, requiring two gingival grafts (a lot of pain and money). The final result is better than post-Dr. Y, but I can't get my original gum appearance back and have permanent recession around my lower teeth. Fortunately we usually don't show the lower gums when we smile, so you would never notice, but it's something I am aware of and will continue to live with.

I also have marginal mandibular nerve damage on the left, so I can't lower the left side of my mouth as well as I used to, so I try not to smile showing my teeth. My chin muscles are also weaker on the left side. I have slight oral incompetence right now with liquids, so I cannot swish fluids around my mouth without holding the left side of my mouth shut. It's improved slightly, but I still have muscular weakness.

I had a further chat with the periodontist about things + discussed what I knew about the surgery in detail. He's obviously not a craniofacial plastic surgeon, but being a periodontist, he has strong understanding of the oral cavity and craniofacial anatomy. He said to me that gingival mucosa heals incredibly well and fast, meaning that the 13-14mm hole we discovered two weeks post-op _must have actually been a massive cavity following the surgery._ Dr. Y had said in the email that the hole contracted slightly, but the perio said it had to have been much larger. He suspects there was an instrumentation error, that perhaps they "slipped" using an elevating device for the tissues. He's aware my implants were XXL and things take on greater risk, but based on the extent of my trauma, he suspects it was instrumentation error.

I now have no implants in around my chin/jaw, after having had stable ones in for 12 years. I avoid looking at old photos of myself and never realized how good I had it. My concern about the palpable tail of the chin implant is laughable now. I'd do anything to get back to where I was.

I should also mention that the scar under my chin, because it was left to heal by secondary intention (on its own because of the infections, as opposed to being sutured shut), has left me with disfigurement that is visible on left profile. The chin pad sags below the scar line several millimeters, so I basically have an old man, saggy chin now. From the right I look fine. As I said, I just avoid looking at myself. Just makes me depressed if I take a photo.

Because I lost my chin/jaw + gained the large cheek implants, my face now is completely different compared to before. I was very boxy and square before. Now I'm sort of triangular / more Asian almost. My midface is hands-down an improvement, but would I go back in time to before the big cheek implants if it meant I could get my chin/jaw implants back + original gums + full nerve function? Absolutely. I would never wish my experience upon anyone.

I should also mention that when I went in for the various infection complications, the nurses told me about a guy from the Middle East who had cheek implant infections prior to a sibling's wedding. They disclosed his name to me (wild; confidentiality??). I will of course not say it here. Not sure if that's the OP. And if it isn't, then there's yet another infection case out there that happened last year with Dr. Y.

Because of Corona, things have obviously slowed down for all of us. However there is a different surgeon with whom I'm looking to have PEEK implants inserted via external approach. I absolutely cannot tolerate a third infection so will not go intraoral.

I'm not rushing into things as I've needed to let my gums heal and my nerve function come back as much as possible, but I'm pretty firm that I will go PEEK and external approach.

I'm OK with taking on external scars around the posterior angles because, after what I've been through, I'd do anything just to get back close to where I was + without another infection. I also now know that 15mm is the perfect posterior angle size for me. I will also probably go for no more than 12mm anterior projection on the chin. I want 15 or so, but the larger we go, the greater the complication risk, and I just don't want to have more problems. Plan is also to design a deep cleft into the chin. So even though the eventual anterior projection won't be as much as I want, maybe the cleft can overall make for a very good effect.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Is there?

--

I left this long post here because 1) you guys should know about what I went through + what is possible with this type of surgery; and 2) This outlet truthfully just helps with my own psychological healing.

--

@Linoob
@Brandon10
@CristianT
@Barbarossa_
@AlexChase89
@Sal123
@Golden Glass
@crosshold
@Morpheus
@suddenurge
@kota
@Dr Shekelberg
@anti caking agents
@highT
@nastynas
@Britsky
@6ft4
@Joyride
@Cardiologyscribe
@ChaddeusPeuterschmit
@Chowdog
@Theonewhowillascend
@fonzee98
@Gonion
@Solo
@paulus1
@Slayerino
@ProjectAscension
@Dr.austeer
@Adrenochrome
@Saltner


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## Morpheus (Apr 16, 2020)

Fuck...read every word man. I don’t know how you managed to put up with all of that. That just sounds so incredibly brutal and it’s crazy to me that surgeons can be so irresponsible and yet the results of their errors are for you to deal with on your own. Hope you’re doing alright now.


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## crosshold (Apr 16, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...


wow dude, crazy story. i really hope things go well for you in the future, thank you for sharing.


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## LDNPari (Apr 16, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...



Whoa, how recessed are you to need 20mm of augmentation? That's going to carry an enormous risk. From what i've seen 5-7mm of jaw augmentation seems to be sufficient in most Eppley/Yaremchuk patients. I will definitely say from research, Yaremchuk seems to be the best at designing implants, the infection concern is always going to be there with jaw implant surgery, especially intra-orally. Who are you considering for your PEEK implants?


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## Adrenochrome (Apr 16, 2020)

Barbarossa_ said:


> Lol I PMed you about your discord bro I couldn't find you by your username there
> and I read that you wanna go back to Dr. Y...



My bad, I'll hit you up soon my guy (getting things organized for us).




Barbarossa_ said:


> Bro could you please just take this year off and grow a beard?
> You need to recover mentally, financially and physically imo



^^ You're ACES brother 🂡 🂡 🂡 -wise words from a king.

Did you read @Anonymous999 experience? This is making me reconsider everything and count my blessings 💯

This is the reality check that I and many other users in here need


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Dr.austeer said:


> No way, I’m new to this website , I joined because I had to comment here after reading this from a link in google . I HAD THE EXACT THING. I got first surgery done with Eppley using silicon, but after reading that silicon could displace in the future I wanted it changing to peek , so I went to dr Noorman van der Dussen who is a very close friend of dr defrancq. Actually dr defrancq was also operating on me too with Noorman which was weird. I found this all out when I was in the operating bed . Defrancq secretary is Noorman daughter . But back to the result, first couple of weeks it came out just like the previous just more swelling but after a year I lost the angularity. It’s mainly due to the masseter muscle - I feel so depressed even suicidal. *We should help each other fix this *. I see u as hope . I can’t go back to Eppley because he warned me of getting the silicon removed. I’m always crying inside and super self conscious now



Absolutely brother but I think you should at-least try to reach out to Eppley to see what he says (if anything).

Slightly different but in the same vein: I reached out to Y. (my original surgeon) after my surgery with Defrancq and told him the situation straight up; he was neutral (as far as I know) and understanding about it.... Point being, at-least hit up E. as he was your original surgeon and see what transpires.

Actually, (since the Anonymous999 post) I've decided to consult with Eppley now too (never thought I would say that).

Keep me updated and I will you as well.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 17, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Whoa, how recessed are you to need 20mm of augmentation? That's going to carry an enormous risk. From what i've seen 5-7mm of jaw augmentation seems to be sufficient in most Eppley/Yaremchuk patients. I will definitely say from research, Yaremchuk seems to be the best at designing implants, the infection concern is always going to be there with jaw implant surgery, especially intra-orally. Who are you considering for your PEEK implants?



5-7mm will be too small. Even if you're not recessed.

I believe the original ones I had in from 12 years ago were probably on the magnitude of 10mm or so. That's my guess. When I had the 15 and 20 mm in, I looked like a cartoon character actually. The 20 was too large and a tad convex/lantern. But the 15 was pretty much spot on - a good vertical drop.

It's fairly typical with guys when they get jaw implants that they wish they had gone bigger.



Adrenochrome said:


> My bad, I'll hit you up soon my guy (getting things organized for us).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My experience differs slightly from yours @Adrenochrome in that I literally had implants in for 12 years and then lost them, so my psych is even more engrained to feel like I "need" them. As in, I don't even view implants as extra / a step up now; I view them as just getting me back to where I've been my entire adult life.

As I said, I would go external approach only now for the jaw + PEEK.

For malar/cheek, I'm lucky my Medpor ones got in without an issue because 1) you can only go intra-oral for malar, and 2) Medpor is most stable in the midface because the cheeks are a "cliff." Silicone and PEEK aren't as preferable at larger sizes apparently. I just pray I can get through life without any problems for my midface.

Thanks for reading my story. Once again, I didn't post here for me. After reading your first post, I had to create an account to let you know you're not alone having had a recent infection with Dr. Y.


LDNPari said:


> Whoa, how recessed are you to need 20mm of augmentation? That's going to carry an enormous risk. From what i've seen 5-7mm of jaw augmentation seems to be sufficient in most Eppley/Yaremchuk patients. I will definitely say from research, Yaremchuk seems to be the best at designing implants, the infection concern is always going to be there with jaw implant surgery, especially intra-orally. Who are you considering for your PEEK implants?



I also would not say Dr. Y is the best at designing implants. He doesn't really listen and will design small. The designs will also come out asymmetric.

I said I wanted XXL for the malar and the original designs were ~5-5.5 mm. I wanted bigger, and then the new designs were 3.5 and 5.5. How does that even make sense? What if I had agreed to that? I'd be walking around with asymmetric cheeks.

And keep in mind, when he designed my jaw, the sides differed by 5 mm on the design and my result was hugely asymmetric.

When I got the second infection and had to have the big jaw/chin implants removed, after the fact I was weirdly OK with it because at least my symmetry was restored. It taught me that a lot of comfort really does come with just being symmetric.

I have 7.4 and 8.2 in right now for my cheeks, and I can tell you I'm glad I fought to make them bigger. I also have 3.5 and 4.5 mm of infraorbital rim.

I have enough humility where I cannot get high on my own supply. The more "up" I might get about my cheeks, that only means the more "down" I might get about my lower face. I've trained myself to be numb across the board and to be more humble about things.


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## Adrenochrome (Apr 17, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...






Your story literally broke my heart man... Speechless... I cannot even fathom all that you've been through.
Thank you for sharing something so personal and I know, deeply hurtful.

Here's to healing, my brother 🥃 🥃




Anonymous999 said:


> This day that I was flying home I was the most confident about my looks that I've ever been in life.* At least I got to taste it for a short window.*



FACTS.... and it's an unrelenting and sadistic drive (internal force) to try and reclaim it.... self destructing in more ways than one.





Anonymous999 said:


> I touched it again, and my chin blew open and hot pus and blood fell out all over the floor.



The imagery... 💀🔥 🩸





Anonymous999 said:


> I checked my email. It said, *"There's clearly an infection present. Implants need to be removed. This can be done as soon as Monday. Please arrange with [Secretary]."*
> 
> I was paralyzed. I didn't know what to do.



So nonchalant ... very cold... 





Anonymous999 said:


> *I had had implants in for 12 years without any problem whatsoever. Now I was going to lose it all.*



GOD THAT KILLS ME.... I only had mine in for 3 months and I was CRUSHED but 12 years.... NEXT LEVEL 💀💀💀






Anonymous999 said:


> But let's not lose hope. The plan was: recover quickly from this setback and get new CT-designed implants that will be even better than what I had before. Silver-lining right? Go through horrible infection + flying across the world + wasting all of this money, but, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. The irony is: I'll actually have better implants in the end that are perfectly symmetrical, larger, and even with a cleft.



Right... it's that internal drive again... never satiated, rationalizing and ALWAYS ready to reclaim what was "lost". Like there's NO OTHER OPTION (even if it means sacrificing yourself in ways you couldn't imagine at the time).

I remember being en route, for removal, with infection on the plane and researching what procedure(s) I was going to get to fix my situation (ostomies, new implants or a combination of both etc...) didn't care or think about anything else.

The only goal was to FIX IT.

The only silver lining I had was that I got to keep my zygo implants.





Anonymous999 said:


> Before I could move forward however, they charged me $5,000 for the implant removal. I found this odd, as they are the ones who caused the infection



Super sketchy - they hit me with 4k (not that it's any better!)





Anonymous999 said:


> Over the course of the following months, my cheeks healed well and, I have enough humility to not say they're modelesque, but they're a solid and striking feature for me now. I am glad I got the size I did. If you want "model" cheekbones, you need to push at least 7-8 mm.



Same but only 6mm (all depends on pheno), though I agree with you that one needs to go much larger in the zygomatic region.






Anonymous999 said:


> With Dr. Y, we did 20mm on the right side of my jaw; 15mm on the left. (Keep in mind my cheeks are now XXL as well). The chin was made 23mm anterior projection. The cleft we designed ~6-7mm deep.



I'm going to be honest man... I was SHOCKED when I read those measurements.... my jaw literally dropped.

I have NEVER seen measurements that large.

Until now, I thought I had some of the largest measurements with my prior wraparound (which really concerned me) but 20mm on one side and 23mm anterior projection on the chin ... just .... mind blown 🧠 💥

I didn't even think one could fit 15-16mm anterior projection, let alone 23!

You must've been severely recessed i.e. literally a case for bimax + genio first and then, implants.





Anonymous999 said:


> They also told me that the muscle and gingiva avulsed during the surgery and that they had to make intraoral incisions to suture things properly, but that, don't worry, because the incisions that were made were the exact same as would be made with an intraoral chin implant. In other words, "Had we gone intraoral to insert your chin implant, the incisions would be the same anyway, *so don't worry. Things went well."*
> 
> During the week of post-op follow-up in Boston, Dr. Y and the fellow stressed that the sutures he put under my teeth were “very sensitive” and that I needed to do everything I could not to disturb them by staying on a liquid/soft food diet + using the mouthwash as indicated + not touching, brushing, flossing, or *even looking at the area for at least 3 weeks*. I had expressed my concern a few tim Aes about not being able to brush/floss or even look at that area for at least three weeks, a*nd he told me it was important and that, correct, I shouldn’t even look at the area so as to not disturb the “very sensitive sutures.*” *I then flew back home one week post-op.*
> 
> ...



That is extremely disturbing... Again... I mean just bringing in perspective here .... I thought I had it bad with a 1-2mm hole (on my second surgery i.e. the one detailed here) but you're talking about a hole that was 13-14mm deep (and probably larger originally)... the negligence is astounding ... dare I say criminal...





Anonymous999 said:


> In other words, Dr. Yaremchuk + Dr. Nguyen had never mentioned this gaping hole to me. Not only had they said the surgery went well, but they stressed not to look at the area whatsoever and to not go to a periodontist. *However had I not gone to the periodontist, I never would have known that hole was there.*
> 
> Isn't it reasonable to conclude that sending a patient home with an open intra-oral wound with Medpor implants guarantees infection? *Perhaps Dr. Y and Dr. Nguyen knew that. And that's why they didn't want me to go to the perio, because they knew the hole would be discovered. Then, when I would finally present again with infection, they could play it off as things being unlucky as opposed to owning up to the fact that, yes, of course I had an infection again because the hole was clearly there.*



Right...




Anonymous999 said:


> My gums were also destroyed, requiring two gingival grafts (a lot of pain and money). The final result is better than post-Dr. Y, but I can't get my original gum appearance back and have permanent recession around my lower teeth. Fortunately we usually don't show the lower gums when we smile, so you would never notice, but it's something I am aware of and will continue to live with.
> 
> I also have marginal mandibular nerve damage on the left, so I can't lower the left side of my mouth as well as I used to, so I try not to smile showing my teeth. My chin muscles are also weaker on the left side. I have slight oral incompetence right now with liquids, so I cannot swish fluids around my mouth without holding the left side of my mouth shut. It's improved slightly, but I still have muscular weakness.



Ahh man.... I'm sorry this happened to you. People need to let this sink in because surgery is always talked about so nonchalantly on this forum.

This is it guys... this is what can and DOES happen.

The above is only the physical impact (which is much easier to remedy than the psychological aftermath).





Anonymous999 said:


> I should also mention that when I went in for the various infection complications, the nurses told me about a guy from the Middle East who had cheek implant infections prior to a sibling's wedding. They disclosed his name to me (wild; confidentiality??). I will of course not say it here. Not sure if that's the OP. *And if it isn't, then there's yet another infection case out there that happened last year with Dr. Y*.



Not I, as I've mentioned many times here previously (not directed at you) that I was grateful to still have my cheek implants when I lost my wraparound (the only thing that "saved" me).

For sure more infection cases doesn't surprise me with Y. What would surprise me, is if more people like yourself and I, were to share their experiences publicly with others.

You know those ratings on realself are garbage (in general) now getting specific.... you know there's many more like us (assuming you haven't) who haven't shared their negative experiences regarding Y. (on realself)






Anonymous999 said:


> Because of Corona, things have obviously slowed down for all of us. However there is a different surgeon with whom I'm looking to have PEEK implants inserted via external approach. I absolutely cannot tolerate a third infection so will not go intraoral.




As you said... take your time to let EVERYTHING heal (body and mind) before proceeding. I say that because (now) from my most recent surgical experience, I trust all internal incisions more than anything external.

I had much larger and deeper incision lines from PEEK; ALL internal and ZERO infection.

And actually, if I'm to get surgical with my observation based on both of our experiences, I would say that simply finding a different surgeon as you said i.e. NOT Y. would solve most of your problems moving forward.

Taking everything into account (your experience now), I have to reiterate and give Defrancq credit for surgical ability and aftercare (which I mentioned multiple times in my comments, as well as in my binary review).

To clarify, surgical ability and aftercare; do not translate to or equal, aesthetic ability (he does not yet poses design prowess). However, in @Anonymous999 case, I think it might be worth considering at-least consulting with someone "safe" i.e. able to provide stability like Defrancq if he's after long-term viability.

As for myself... thank you again @Anonymous999 for detailing your personal journey thus far. You've given me (and perhaps many others "I hope") some much needed clarity and reality to the path of ascension ...a sobering view of surgical sacrilege... malfeasance as it were.

Heal up man, looking forward to hearing of your success!💯


----------



## Slayerino (Apr 17, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...


Fuck, such a horror story. I hope you're feeling better now. Reading it makes me want to give up my next surgeries. I still have to get a bimax and zygos/suborbital implants. I'll never get silicone or peek, I'll go with the HA paste. I need the extra mass to be "real", mine, proper bone, not a synthetic material.

How did you manage your social life with all these sudden changes happening? What did the people around you say?


----------



## Anonymous999 (Apr 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> Your story literally broke my heart man... Speechless... I cannot even fathom all that you've been through.
> Thank you for sharing something so personal and I know, deeply hurtful.
> 
> Here's to healing, my brother 🥃 🥃



Appreciate you taking the time to read it.



Adrenochrome said:


> I'm going to be honest man... I was SHOCKED when I read those measurements.... my jaw literally dropped.
> 
> I have NEVER seen measurements that large.
> 
> ...



I knew of the approximate measurements after seeing a patient example of Eppley on some website where the guy had 15mm on each side. On the CT design from Dr. Y, the measurements took into account the extra projection that my new cheeks conferred, meaning had I not had the big cheek implants put in prior, no, I would not have had those same measurements. I just find it odd that on the CT design things came out symmetrical with different sizes on each side, and yet the actual result was obvious for the asymmetry. The new surgeon I've talked to knows my story, and I told him I don't care what the CT shows - I want the implants the same size on both sides - and if that creates asymmetry, so be it, but I don't want different sizes again.

Regarding the chin projection, I've seen plenty of posts where Eppley has had patients getting 15mm with silicone. So this isn't unusual apparently. I just can't take the risk with my soft tissue elasticity being slightly compromised from prior infection. In addition, silicone is the easiest to insert. With PEEK, I think 12mm is a fair compromise.

I believe my original chin projection from 12 years ago was around ~10mm or so. Then when Dr. Y added more to it during the symmetry procedure, it probably got to around 15-17. I had very good projection. I reminisce for those days.



Adrenochrome said:


> That is extremely disturbing... Again... I mean just bringing in perspective here .... I thought I had it bad with a 1-2mm hole (on my second surgery i.e. the one detailed here) but you're talking about a hole that was 13-14mm deep (and probably larger originally)... the negligence is astounding ... dare I say criminal...



My initial impression was that there was necrosis causing the hole and gum recession, or something of that nature. In reality, it was the sling sutures Dr. Yaremchuk and Dr. Nguyen used around my lower teeth that caused gum inflammation and caused them to recede. And Dr. Y admitted in email to my periodontist that the hole was there when I left Boston. So it's not something that opened after the fact. And as I said, my periodontist says for there to be a hole that large 2 weeks post-op, considering gingival tissue heals remarkably fast and well, the original defect must have been massive. He said he believes it was instrumentation error. But how will we ever know?








Adrenochrome said:


> Not I, as I've mentioned many times here previously (not directed at you) that I was grateful to still have my cheek implants when I lost my wraparound (the only thing that "saved" me).
> 
> For sure more infection cases doesn't surprise me with Y. What would surprise me, is if more people like yourself and I, were to share their experiences publicly with others.
> 
> You know those ratings on realself are garbage (in general) now getting specific.... you know there's many more like us (assuming you haven't) who haven't shared their negative experiences regarding Y. (on realself)



I had originally left a glowing review of Dr. Y on Realself last year. I contacted them to have it removed. And I'm fairly sure the page doesn't exist anymore. Rather than leaving a negative review, I just asked them to take it down.





Adrenochrome said:


> As you said... take your time to let EVERYTHING heal (body and mind) before proceeding. I say that because (now) from my most recent surgical experience, I trust all internal incisions more than anything external.
> 
> I had much larger and deeper incision lines from PEEK; ALL internal and ZERO infection.



I wish I could go intra-oral. I just cannot tolerate any more infection risk so am literally the perfect candidate for the external approach. I think any guy going in for a first-time surgery should try intra-oral. Maybe if the posterior angles are large enough, they will be able to more effectively conceal the incision lines. Once again, not ideal, but better than what I am now.




Adrenochrome said:


> And actually, if I'm to get surgical with my observation based on both of our experiences, I would say that simply finding a different surgeon as you said i.e. NOT Y. would solve most of your problems moving forward.



I did have a little bit of Stockholm regarding Dr. Y. I venerated him after my original facial implants from 12 years ago. After my double-infection last year + seeing his complete utter lack of empathy, I see he puts himself above his patients. He could have at least asked once how I was doing. In person and through email, he not once showed any empathy.



Adrenochrome said:


> Taking everything into account (your experience now), I have to reiterate and give Defrancq credit for surgical ability and aftercare (which I mentioned multiple times in my comments, as well as in my binary review).
> 
> To clarify, surgical ability and aftercare; do not translate to or equal, aesthetic ability (he does not yet poses design prowess). However, in @Anonymous999 case, I think it might be worth considering at-least consulting with someone "safe" i.e. able to provide stability like Defrancq if he's after long-term viability.
> 
> ...



I really do hope there's a light at the end of the tunnel. As soon as Corona clears (and hopefully it's not endless), I will eventually go on to get surgery. I will post some sort of update in the future and come back here (or somewhere) and post. You might be like, "Oh yeah, I remember that anonymous999 guy from ages go."


Slayerino said:


> Fuck, such a horror story. I hope you're feeling better now. Reading it makes me want to give up my next surgeries. I still have to get a bimax and zygos/suborbital implants. I'll never get silicone or peek, I'll go with the HA paste. I need the extra mass to be "real", mine, proper bone, not a synthetic material.
> 
> How did you manage your social life with all these sudden changes happening? What did the people around you say?



You would be mindblown to hear that people didn't even notice. A few people had said "Did you lose weight?" But no one actually noticed like you'd think. It might be more the case where guys like us are more prone to hone in on this type of analysis.


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## Dude420 (Apr 17, 2020)

Read this thread like a novel, holy fuck insane stories @Adrenochrome @Anonymous999 thanks for sharing!
You are confirming to me I'll never put a foreign object in my face. I had double jaw surgery (had apnea), now thinking about a genio, but I will probably not go further than that, would really like to improve my cheeks, don't think it is worth the risks, even more so factoring the cost. Would like to improve my mandible as well, but no way I am getting a huge implant there. I wonder if anyone tried improving the side of the jaw/gonial angle regions only by moving the bones in that area, there is less potential than with implants, but I saw that you can gain a decent amount of jaw width and ramus length through a chinwing (I wouldn't do a full chinwing because it seems too risky to me, it goes too close to the nerve and tries to move too large of a piece of bones).


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## Saltner (Apr 17, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...


I admire your dedication. You are tough as a rock. Thanks for coming to this forum.

Also you mention that in CT scans and computer imagery the implant showed no asymmetries but after surgery there was visible asymmetries. I think I read somewhere that even if the implants made with CT scan look symmetric in computer imagery, the result might come out to be asymmetrical due to some soft tissue asymmetry ( I think I read this in Dr Eppley's blog ). This type of asymmetries are unpredictable. Again my memory is blurry and i'm not sure if i'm actually correct or mixing things. I tried searching for that page but couldn't find it. Maybe this has something to do with your case? Or maybe someone more knowledgeable can say something it?


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## Moneymaxxed (Apr 17, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...


Incredible story, thank you for sharing. I too will never get an implant precisely because of experiences like this. Fillers only for me.

I genuinely wish you the best and hope you recover ASAP. It’s a shame that options for this are so costly, risky, and limited. I pray for a future where this can be done without so much pain and faith in a few old surgeons.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 17, 2020)

Saltner said:


> I admire your dedication. You are tough as a rock. Thanks for coming to this forum.
> 
> Also you mention that in CT scans and computer imagery the implant showed no asymmetries but after surgery there was visible asymmetries. I think I read somewhere that even if the implants made with CT scan look symmetric in computer imagery, the result might come out to be asymmetrical due to some soft tissue asymmetry ( I think I read this in Dr Eppley's blog ). This type of asymmetries are unpredictable. Again my memory is blurry and i'm not sure if i'm actually correct or mixing things. I tried searching for that page but couldn't find it. Maybe this has something to do with your case? Or maybe someone more knowledgeable can say something it?



Thanks for reading my story. I really appreciate it.

The discrepancy in size wasn't soft tissue. Trust me. The posterior mandibular angles were 15mm and 20 mm for each side, respectively, and the result that followed literally reflected this - i.e., my right angle came out 5mm more jagged and projected. It is my suspicion that the implants didn't sit on the actual bone the way they did on the CT. In other words, rather than the "fits like a glove" description playing out in real life, what really happens is, they get the implant in there and then approximate the best they can where it's supposed to go. In any case, for my future implants I'm getting the same size on both sides - 15mm.


Moneymaxxed said:


> Incredible story, thank you for sharing. I too will never get an implant precisely because of experiences like this. Fillers only for me.
> 
> I genuinely wish you the best and hope you recover ASAP. It’s a shame that options for this are so costly, risky, and limited. I pray for a future where this can be done without so much pain and faith in a few old surgeons.


Thank you for reading my story. I really appreciate it.


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## PubertyMaxxer (Apr 17, 2020)

@Adrenochrome what do you think about only getting the ct implant design from Yaremchuk and actually doing the surgery with Defranq?


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## LDNPari (Apr 17, 2020)

PubertyMaxxer said:


> @Adrenochrome what do you think about only getting the ct implant design from Yaremchuk and actually doing the surgery with Defranq?



that's literally exactly what he didn't and didn't like it lol


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## PubertyMaxxer (Apr 17, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> that's literally exactly what he didn't and didn't like it lol


Wdym? Would op have preferred that lookin back?


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## LDNPari (Apr 17, 2020)

PubertyMaxxer said:


> Wdym? Would op have preferred that lookin back?






> So... you see, form and function (beautiful). Now, design-wise (this is where Y. Comes in again) because I knew exactly what I wanted (partly my former design as I already knew how I would look) and showed Defrancq my original Silicone implant draft -he was able to draft his own version of it but changed the taper of the gonial angles to be more natural (which is what I wanted) so it was perfect for me.



Basically was the same design except DeFrancq made it more "natural" and he says it ended up looking worse. He said he looks like an asymmetrical normie after surgery with DeFrancq where as he says he was modeling with Yaremchuk's implant. Also OP said he's going to most likely have surgery a 3rd time around with Yaremchuk again.


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## Deleted member 5393 (Apr 17, 2020)

where are the pics u scammer


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## RealTruecel (Apr 17, 2020)

no pics? didn't read


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## Ascensionrequired (Apr 17, 2020)

There is some interesting stuff you had to share here, but I would have liked to know why Defrancq is such an ass clown. I'm not a fan of his designs when I look at his site, but I also feel it's mostly pre operation bloat and gives a terrible idea of the final result. If those are the final results, and all his designs are rounded he's clearly inept at aesthetics. Didn't @Sal123 have an ok result with Defrancq? Well except for ripping up a masseter though?

No offense bro, I understand this shit takes a hit on you mentally, but I agree with @Bewusst that it's hard to take you seriously if you start a thread about jaw surgery/implants and eventually just start all out *rambling* about the end of times, Jews, Bill Gates, Corona being a sham, and some covert folk who are about to chip, control or kill us.


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## Barbarossa_ (Apr 17, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> My bad, I'll hit you up soon my guy (getting things organized for us).


Np boss


Adrenochrome said:


> Did you read @Anonymous999 experience? This is making me reconsider everything and count my blessings 💯
> 
> This is the reality check that I and many other users in here need


Yes man it's heart breaking...
I always mentioned on here how guys talk about surgery like buying candy it's ridiculous!
but I can see why a lot of surgeons I talked to like doctor Z and Rameiri against implants and prefer osteotomies BUT believe it or not I read a lot of stories from people getting infection from the freaking mini plates that are used to hold the bone after the cut


This surgery thing is way worse than we ever thought brother


Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...


My man I think you are being way too passive and that's why this psychopath Yaremchuk didn't tell you about this massive hole and how he fucked up your gums

You came back to him with infection and he charged you to remove the implants TWICE so he knew you won't file a law suite and malpractice

I know you wanna get your jaw back that you had for 12 years but I think you should focus some of your money and energy to file a malpractice law suite and get some of your money back from that psychopath
You have all the evidence you need from your periodontist just make it your life goal to cause him misery and headache like he caused you.

Some local maxillofacial surgeon one time told me these western surgeons for the most part are botchers in a lab coat and they only care about their bank account especially American ones and this seems so true comparing the after care you got from Y and the one Defranq provides

When shit hit the fan Defranq came to the clinic in his off days to check on @Adrenochrome which says a lot about his character as a human being.

Hope you heal well brother.


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## Deleted member 1707 (Apr 17, 2020)

What your binary code means? Secret message?


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## Phoenix997 (Apr 17, 2020)

AlexChase89 said:


> I had a feeling Brusco was incompetent, glad to know my instincts were right.
> 
> Hope you avoid infection this time, or at the very least are able to salvage the implant with antibiotic irrigation in the event it happens.


Lol you mean you’ll have to get it removed and replaced with a superior material 50 years from now ? How terrible! Imagine the new options available then lol.


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## Phoenix997 (Apr 17, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *More on my story:*
> 
> I had chin/jaw + paranasal + malar/infraorbital rim implants placed nearly 12 years ago with Dr. Y that were _not_ CT designed. They were MedPor. They were inserted successfully. Chin and jaw could have been made larger but my structure was made better than before.
> 
> ...


Is this a fucking joke... holy fucking shit. Fuck implants.


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## Moggy (Apr 17, 2020)

OP is literally insane, holy shit JFL @ "looksmaxxers". This reads like a diary of a madman. KYS OP.


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## 6ft4 (Apr 17, 2020)

This is one hell of a thread


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## 6ft4 (Apr 17, 2020)

From this thread I've gathered that Brusco, DeFranqc and Zarrinbal are all overrated
Are there any legit surgeons in Europe at all? (I need jaw surgery)


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## Adrenochrome (Apr 17, 2020)

6ft4 said:


> From this thread I've gathered that Brusco, DeFranqc and Zarrinbal are all overrated
> Are there any legit surgeons in Europe at all? (I need jaw surgery)



For strictly jaw surgery in Europe, Tito MARIANETTI comes up a lot (check his B&A's)
There's a thread that mentions him from someone (on this forum) who had jaw surgery with him: https://looksmax.org/threads/jaw-surgery-in-europe.34314/

Also many threads on other forums (search them out).

Moreover, there's Alfaro in Spain (but expensive from what I hear)

There's also Raffiani.


----------



## CristianT (Apr 18, 2020)

6ft4 said:


> From this thread I've gathered that Brusco, DeFranqc and Zarrinbal are all overrated
> Are there any legit surgeons in Europe at all? (I need jaw surgery)



https://looksmax.org/threads/my-double-jaw-surgery-genio-2-years-ago.56055/ - Tito Marianetti

https://looksmax.org/threads/pre-and-post.64100/ - Valerio Marianetti (Tito helped in surgery)

Skype: valerioramieri_1

I've talked to both of them and they give me pictures(not gonna share on forum cause they ask not to dox). I would say both of them are good results. You can ask them pictures as well to see for yourself.


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## listz (Apr 18, 2020)

interessing


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## suddenurge (Apr 18, 2020)

@Anonymous999 Wow what sad story. When you say that you are going with PEEK and external incision, are you referring to a chin implant only then? I know that Eppley and some other surgeons can insert a whole silicone jaw implant through a submental incision, but this is, of course, impossible with a material as rigid as PEEK. 

In Europe, literally all plastic surgeons still work with silicone or medpor. It seems as if a few European maxfacs work with PEEK because PEEK is much more affordable in Europe than the US. Unfortunately, I think you will be hard-pressed to find a European maxfac to insert even a PEEK chin implant with an external incision. Only aesthetic/plastic surgeons routinely use an external approach, whilst maxfacs basically always use an internal approach. This is how they have been trained and the technique that they are comfortable with and also use for genioplasties etc. Most of them have probably never inserted a chin implant through a submental incision. Why? Because most patients prefer intraoral incisions and submental incisions are viewed by maxfacs as an inferior procedure used by "less skilled" plastic surgeons. 

Even medpor has some flexibility, which can be enhanced by heating the medpor material. This is not the case for PEEK. Assuming you find a willing surgeon, given the implant size you require and the rigidness of PEEK, you would have to split the implant in two, to even have a chance of inserting it submentally.

Would you mind posting the implant design pics of your cheek implants? Since you seem so pleased with them it makes me curious about Dr. Y's design.

Best of luck to you. Keep us updated.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 18, 2020)

suddenurge said:


> @Anonymous999 Wow what sad story. When you say that you are going with PEEK and external incision, are you referring to a chin implant only then? I know that Eppley and some other surgeons can insert a whole silicone jaw implant through a submental incision, but this is, of course, impossible with a material as rigid as PEEK.



I plan on getting PEEK posterior mandibular implants via external approach. That is, yes, I will tolerate the external scars. These will be along the posterior ramus. The chin component will be inserted via submental. Should be three external incisions total. Obviously not ideal, but when you've been through what I have, intra-oral is just not wise at this stage. 



suddenurge said:


> In Europe, literally all plastic surgeons still work with silicone or medpor. It seems as if a few European maxfacs work with PEEK because PEEK is much more affordable in Europe than the US. Unfortunately, I think you will be hard-pressed to find a European maxfac to insert even a PEEK chin implant with an external incision. Only aesthetic/plastic surgeons routinely use an external approach, whilst maxfacs basically always use an internal approach. This is how they have been trained and the technique that they are comfortable with and also use for genioplasties etc. Most of them have probably never inserted a chin implant through a submental incision. Why? Because most patients prefer intraoral incisions and submental incisions are viewed by maxfacs as an inferior procedure used by "less skilled" plastic surgeons.
> 
> Even medpor has some flexibility, which can be enhanced by heating the medpor material. This is not the case for PEEK. Assuming you find a willing surgeon, given the implant size you require and the rigidness of PEEK, you would have to split the implant in two, to even have a chance of inserting it submentally.



I have found a good surgeon willing to do PEEK via external approach for the chin and jaw.




suddenurge said:


> Would you mind posting the implant design pics of your cheek implants? Since you seem so pleased with them it makes me curious about Dr. Y's design.
> 
> Best of luck to you. Keep us updated.



My choice to not upload the photos or design to this page is because, yes, my cheeks came out well, however I do not want to glorify the surgeon who caused such trauma to my lower face and who demonstrated zero empathy or care for me. In other words, I do not want guys to say, "Terrible what happened to that anonymous999 guy, but actually I will admit his cheeks are good though yeah." I strongly advise not to go to Dr. Y and I will have done a disservice to this community if I inadvertently propelled anyone to go that route. Hear my words loud and clear as a warning. Be thankful I'm giving a clear warning here about Dr. Y.

There have been some people who have DMed me asking for photos. If you want photos, I will send them to you through DM if you message me and respect confidentiality. You might be able to send to a different surgeon asking if he/she can achieve something similar.


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## CristianT (Apr 18, 2020)

https://looksmax.org/threads/my-surgery-before-and-after-your-opinion.112276/page-2
This guy made also jaw implants with Defrancq. Looks terrible, ngl. Poor guy.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 18, 2020)

I am getting a flood of DMs since my last post. Here is the design I currently have in without me showing my actual face. You can send these along to a different surgeon.

My natural/underlying cheek structure is decent / not hypoplastic. So these implants on top have produced a good result for me. 

Greatest value I can provide anyone here is this: if you want "model" cheekbones, you need to push into the 7-8+ range.


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## LDNPari (Apr 19, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> I am getting a flood of DMs since my last post. Here is the design I currently have in without me showing my actual face. You can send these along to a different surgeon.
> 
> My natural/underlying cheek structure is decent / not hypoplastic. So these implants on top have produced a good result for me.
> 
> Greatest value I can provide anyone here is this: if you want "model" cheekbones, you need to push into the 7-8+ range.



I thought you also got paranasal implants?


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 19, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> I thought you also got paranasal implants?



They're still in from 12 years ago. They're radiolucent on the scan.

The CT design is just the XXL malar / infraorbital rim implants that I currently have in.


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 19, 2020)

@Anonymous999 I just read through your post describing your experience with Dr. Y and I'm speechless; I'm sorry you had to go through all that. I actually had surgery with Dr. Y a little over a year ago (March 2019) to place custom midface and chin implants, along with submental lipectomy to get rid of my double chin. There are a few weird things worth mentioning about my situation. First of all, even though I only requested to have custom midface and chin implants created, Dr. Y ended up designing an entire wraparound jaw implant for me. I was unsure as to whether or not I wanted total jaw augmentation, though, so on the morning of surgery I just had Dr. Y cut off the chin portion of the wraparound implant and place that during surgery. The remaining two halves of my wraparound jaw implant are in storage at his facility, and I had been planning on going back to him either this summer or next fall to have the remainder of it placed.

I was lucky to avoid developing any infections, but I did develop a hematoma behind my chin that Dr. Y thinks was associated with the submental lipectomy. After I got in touch with him about via email a couple weeks after the surgery and showed him photos of it, he told me I needed to fly back to Boston to have it drained. I did, and luckily he didn't charge me for the draining procedure.

One of the things you said in your post that really resonated with me was your remark about Dr. Y's initial implant designs being too small. I 100% agree with that assessment, and that brings me to my next point. You mentioned that after you told him that you felt the initial cheek implant design didn't provide projection, he sent you a revised cheek implant design that provided 5.5 mm and 3.5 mm of projection with each cheek implant. Well, maybe it's just a coincidence, but check out the dimensions on my cheek implants below:



As you can see, my midface implants each provide 5.5 mm and 3.5 mm of projection. The thing is, at the time he sent me the implant designs about a month before my surgery, I had no idea if 5.5 mm and 3.5 mm would've been considered too little augmentation, too much augmentation, or just the right amount of augmentation. I had asked him over the phone a day or two after receiving the implant designs if he thought it would be a good idea to go 2-3 mm bigger on the midface implants since I wanted them to look sharp and angular, but he emphatically said NO - because the result could end up looking unnatural.

Anyways, by the time all the swelling had dissipated months later, I realized that even though my "new" cheeks were definitely an improvement over what I had before, they still didn't provide enough projection. What was especially painful about this realization is the fact that it's really easy to tell that another 2-3 mm on each side would look OBJECTIVELY better, in the sense that the extra projection would put me dangerously close to having model-tier cheekbones. In fact, I've had people tell me that it's not just the case that my face could accommodate more projection -- it would actually be a much-improved result if I did have the additional augmentation.

So that brings to my current situation. As I mentioned above, I was planning on going back to Dr. Y sometime within the next 6 months to have the rest of my wraparound jaw implant placed, as I can now see that I'd benefit from the additional height/width the rest of the jaw implant would give me.

About a month or so ago, I also emailed Dr. Y photos of what my midface currently looks like, told him I'd like to get a more chiseled/angular result (while still avoiding an overdone look), and asked him what his opinion was. This is the part that kind of pisses me off -- in his response to me, he acknowledged that my midface could accommodate more projection and all but admitted that my original midface implants were designed too small. So at this point, my biggest regret is that I didn't INSIST during that pre-surgery phone call that he add an extra 2-3 mm to each side.

That brings me to my next point. To put it simply, I have one of the shittiest eye areas you've ever seen, and one of the upcoming surgeries I'd like to have is a total eye area overhaul with an oculoplastic surgeon named Dr. Taban - procedures include orbital decompression, lateral canthoplasty, and lower eyelid retraction surgery. I mention that because to place my cheek implants, Dr. Y made a lower eyelid incision and placed them via that route (so there was no intraoral incision whatsoever). What both Dr. Taban and Dr. Y told me is that if I want to undergo lower eyelid retraction surgery in the future to raise my lower eyelids, then I need to avoid undergoing any additional procedures that involve making an incision into the lower eyelid, because every additional incision in that area contributes to scar tissue buildup and makes it less likely that I'll be able to get a desirable eye area overhaul surgery result.

So having established that, I asked Dr. Y if it would be possible to somehow augment my midface implants without having to do a complete revision, AND without having to do anything that involves making another lower eyelid incision. He responded to me via email and said that he could have an "onlay" implant layer designed/manufactured that he could simply place on top of my existing midface implants, and he said he could probably do it via an intraoral incision.

So anyways, until I had come across your post just a few minutes ago, those were my tentative future surgery plans - getting the rest of my wraparound jaw implant placed, and having the additional "onlay" implants placed on top of my existing midface implants (hopefully via an intraoral incision so as to not compromise my future eye area overhaul surgery results). However, after reading your post, I'm honestly not sure how I'm going to proceed forward now. I realize that having the remainder of my wraparound implant placed and getting a few more mm of projection would make for a comprehensive improvement to my looks, but at the same time, if I end up developing an infection that necessitates removal of both the onlay implant layer AND my original midface implants, I'd be devastated. Really not sure what I'm going to do at this point...


----------



## Anonymous999 (Apr 19, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> @Anonymous999 I just read through your post describing your experience with Dr. Y and I'm speechless; I'm sorry you had to go through all that. I actually had surgery with Dr. Y a little over a year ago (March 2019) to place custom midface and chin implants, along with submental lipectomy to get rid of my double chin. There are a few weird things worth mentioning about my situation. First of all, even though I only requested to have custom midface and chin implants created, Dr. Y ended up designing an entire wraparound jaw implant for me. I was unsure as to whether or not I wanted total jaw augmentation, though, so on the morning of surgery I just had Dr. Y cut off the chin portion of the wraparound implant and place that during surgery. The remaining two halves of my wraparound jaw implant are in storage at his facility, and I had been planning on going back to him either this summer or next fall to have the remainder of it placed.
> 
> I was lucky to avoid developing any infections, but I did develop a hematoma behind my chin that Dr. Y thinks was associated with the submental lipectomy. After I got in touch with him about via email a couple weeks after the surgery and showed him photos of it, he told me I needed to fly back to Boston to have it drained. I did, and luckily he didn't charge me for the draining procedure.



Your situation is unique in that you're basically in a "halfway point" and he's the only one that has the remaining part of your implant. If you had never gone to him before I would advise against. You have to make that call. Just recognize that I too had had previous surgeries without an infection, but then got TWO IN A ROW with him.



SurgerySoon said:


> One of the things you said in your post that really resonated with me was your remark about Dr. Y's initial implant designs being too small. I 100% agree with that assessment, and that brings me to my next point. You mentioned that after you told him that you felt the initial cheek implant design didn't provide projection, he sent you a revised cheek implant design that provided 5.5 mm and 3.5 mm of projection with each cheek implant. Well, maybe it's just a coincidence, but check out the dimensions on my cheek implants below:
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, my midface implants each provide 5.5 mm and 3.5 mm of projection.




Guaranteed the difference in your measurements were error on his end. As I said in my prior post, I received a first design where they were within 0.2mm of each other. Then the second design was 2mm difference. I asked him how in the world that was possible. Then the final design came back ~0.8 difference. It's like, OK? Let's just throw a hail mary when we have a CT right here that's supposed to be mathematically exact.

I knew Dr. Y designs small because I had had previous surgeries and knew my implants could have been much bigger. I also looked at his patient examples on the website and could clearly see those patients would have benefitted from more projection.



SurgerySoon said:


> The thing is, at the time he sent me the implant designs about a month before my surgery, I had no idea if 5.5 mm and 3.5 mm would've been considered too little augmentation, too much augmentation, or just the right amount of augmentation.



So obvious not enough augmentation.

5.5mm bilaterally is acceptable. 3.5mm is not.

The look you're envisioning for yourself is probably ~8mm bilaterally. (I have 7.4 and 8.2, so this is not speculation. And I had to FIGHT to get those sizes.).

Your situation annoys me because he decided to go with what was easy for him, not what was best for you.

I also believe your posterior angles could be designed bigger. Maybe 10-12mm at least.



SurgerySoon said:


> I had asked him over the phone a day or two after receiving the implant designs if he thought it would be a good idea to go 2-3 mm bigger on the midface implants since I wanted them to look sharp and angular, but he emphatically said NO - because the result could end up looking unnatural.



For every one patient who whines about "Omg my 4mm shells are too noticeable!" There are 9 other patients who would have wanted a look only achievable with 7-8+ mm.



SurgerySoon said:


> Anyways, by the time all the swelling had dissipated months later, I realized that even though my "new" cheeks were definitely an improvement over what I had before, they still didn't provide enough projection. What was especially painful about this realization is the fact that it's really easy to tell that another 2-3 mm on each side would look OBJECTIVELY better, in the sense that the extra projection would put me dangerously close to having model-tier cheekbones. In fact, I've had people tell me that it's not just the case that my face could accommodate more projection -- it would actually be a much-improved result if I did have the additional augmentation.



Once again, no kidding.




SurgerySoon said:


> So that brings to my current situation. As I mentioned above, I was planning on going back to Dr. Y sometime within the next 6 months to have the rest of my wraparound jaw implant placed, as I can now see that I'd benefit from the additional height/width the rest of the jaw implant would give me.
> 
> About a month or so ago, I also emailed Dr. Y photos of what my midface currently looks like, told him I'd like to get a more chiseled/angular result (while still avoiding an overdone look), and asked him what his opinion was. This is the part that kind of pisses me off -- in his response to me, he acknowledged that my midface could accommodate more projection and all but admitted that my original midface implants were designed too small. So at this point, my biggest regret is that I didn't INSIST during that pre-surgery phone call that he add an extra 2-3 mm to each side.



Especially on the midface because it's not as easy to just go back in there and re-augment. As you've pointed out, the eyelid incisions are delicate and you don't really get many redos.



SurgerySoon said:


> That brings me to my next point. To put it simply, I have one of the shittiest eye areas you've ever seen, and one of the upcoming surgeries I'd like to have is a total eye area overhaul with an oculoplastic surgeon named Dr. Taban - procedures include orbital decompression, lateral canthoplasty, and lower eyelid retraction surgery. I mention that because to place my cheek implants, Dr. Y made a lower eyelid incision and placed them via that route (so there was no intraoral incision whatsoever). What both Dr. Taban and Dr. Y told me is that if I want to undergo lower eyelid retraction surgery in the future to raise my lower eyelids, then I need to avoid undergoing any additional procedures that involve making an incision into the lower eyelid, because every additional incision in that area contributes to scar tissue buildup and makes it less likely that I'll be able to get a desirable eye area overhaul surgery result.
> 
> So having established that, I asked Dr. Y if it would be possible to somehow augment my midface implants without having to do a complete revision, AND without having to do anything that involves making another lower eyelid incision. He responded to me via email and said that he could have an "onlay" implant layer designed/manufactured that he could simply place on top of my existing midface implants, and he said he could probably do it via an intraoral incision.



You do not want a midface infection. Every time he goes in there through the mouth you're opening yourself up to that possibility. I agree that you should avoid the eyelid incisions as much as possible.

I believe overlay implants would give you a "crackling" or "crunching" effect like I had with my chin. I tell you this literally from experience where he did that for me - that is, overlaying Medpor on my chin. This isn't even speculation. To avoid this, you would need a brand new custom CT implant with eyelid incisions.

You have to ask yourself if you can live with your current cheek implants. If you get lower eyelid droop or an infection you will be kicking yourself for life.



SurgerySoon said:


> So anyways, until I had come across your post just a few minutes ago, those were my tentative future surgery plans - getting the rest of my wraparound jaw implant placed, and having the additional "onlay" implants placed on top of my existing midface implants (hopefully via an intraoral incision so as to not compromise my future eye area overhaul surgery results). However, after reading your post, I'm honestly not sure how I'm going to proceed forward now. I realize that having the remainder of my wraparound implant placed and getting a few more mm of projection would make for a comprehensive improvement to my looks, but at the same time, if I end up developing an infection that necessitates removal of both the onlay implant layer AND my original midface implants, I'd be devastated. Really not sure what I'm going to do at this point...



As I said above, your situation is unique in that you seem to be in a "halfway" stage with your surgeries. If you were a new patient I would say avoid this surgeon.

What you need to do is weigh the risks of infection versus what your aesthetic goals are. Only you can make that decision.

Once again, I'm annoyed on your behalf that your original implants weren't designed optimally. But I'm also not surprised in the slightest because this surgeon doesn't truly listen to the goals of his patients.


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## LDNPari (Apr 19, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> They're still in from 12 years ago. They're radiolucent on the scan.
> 
> The CT design is just the XXL malar / infraorbital rim implants that I currently have in.



Are you liking the paranasal implant? I'm considering getting one but not sure if its really effective. Do you mind PMing the name of the surgeon you're working with to use PEEK?


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 19, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Are you liking the paranasal implant? I'm considering getting one but not sure if its really effective. Do you mind PMing the name of the surgeon you're working with to use PEEK?



Paranasal carries the most underwhelming effect unless you go "big." But I mean, who goes "big" with paranasal? Sounds unusual.

I believe mine are 2-3mm bilaterally. My advice is to design yours at least 4-5mm.

I suspect the effect is that it creates a slightly anti-aging convexity around the medial nasolabial fold. If you go "big" for paranasal, you might find you look younger. I imagine if I lost my paranasal for whatever reason I'd have more prominent nasolabial indentation.


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 19, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> Your situation is unique in that you're basically in a "halfway point" and he's the only one that has the remaining part of your implant. If you had never gone to him before I would advise against. You have to make that call. Just recognize that I too had had previous surgeries without an infection, but then got TWO IN A ROW with him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm really being pulled in different directions over how to proceed forward, because I think I'd benefit so much from additional midface implant projection that it feels like I'd be leaving a lot of potential improvement on the table. Also, these were procedures I've been wanting to undergo for at least 6-7 years now, so in a way it's kind of devastating that once I finally managed to find the time and money to have them done, I didn't end up achieving the results I wanted. What makes it even more torturous to live with is the fact that I actually DO have the potential (in terms of my starting point or "base") to get the results I want.

On the topic of risking lower eyelid droop or other issues resulting from midface implant revision that could potentially compromise future eye area overhaul surgery results -- until I read your post, what I had considered doing was going with Dr. Y for both the eye area surgeries as well as the midface implant revision, since I understand that he has a lot of experience performing eye area procedures. That would hypothetically negate the risks of compromising the results of future eye area surgeries, since I'd literally be undergoing the eye area overhaul surgeries during the same procedure. However, now I'm thinking it might not be such a good idea to trust Dr. Y with those procedures.

Here's another potential option -- instead of going with Dr. Y for the midface implant revision surgery, what if I get a copy of the implant design software file for my midface implants and send it to another surgeon who has lots of experience placing midface implants, such as Dr. Eppley? The thing is, I actually think that the overall design morphology/shape of the implants themselves is perfect -- it's just that the implants themselves don't provide enough projection. Since Dr. Eppley doesn't seem to be associated with post-surgical infections to the same extent as Dr. Y, do you think it would be safe to go with him for midface implant revision surgery (assuming he can insert the implants through the mouth and avoid making a lower eyelid incision)? What I was thinking about doing is sending Eppley the actual design file for my midface implants and telling him to simply add 2-3 mm of projection (more to the smaller one) and otherwise keep the implant design exactly as it is. 

BTW, when his office secretary sent me the implant designs about a month prior to my surgery, she included a quote from Dr. Y where he said that the difference in # of mm of projection between each cheek implant was due to asymmetry of the native skull features. I would like to think that really, truly is the explanation for why there's such a stark difference in the amount of projection between each implant, but your explanation is probably right.

Just out of curiosity, do you think there would be much of an infection risk if I did have the implants revised via a lower eyelid incision and just decided to take the gamble on whether it would compromise my future eye area surgery outcome?


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## LDNPari (Apr 19, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> I'm really being pulled in different directions over how to proceed forward, because I think I'd benefit so much from additional midface implant projection that it feels like I'd be leaving a lot of potential improvement on the table. Also, these were procedures I've been wanting to undergo for at least 6-7 years now, so in a way it's kind of devastating that once I finally managed to find the time and money to have them done, I didn't end up achieving the results I wanted. What makes it even more torturous to live with is the fact that I actually DO have the potential (in terms of my starting point or "base") to get the results I want.
> 
> On the topic of risking lower eyelid droop or other issues resulting from midface implant revision that could potentially compromise future eye area overhaul surgery results -- until I read your post, what I had considered doing was going with Dr. Y for both the eye area surgeries as well as the midface implant revision, since I understand that he has a lot of experience performing eye area procedures. That would hypothetically negate the risks of compromising the results of future eye area surgeries, since I'd literally be undergoing the eye area overhaul surgeries during the same procedure. However, now I'm thinking it might not be such a good idea to trust Dr. Y with those procedures.
> 
> ...



I would not go to Eppley, that guy is a clown and has produced some really bad results. Also pretty sure he drove a woman to commit suicide after disfiguring her.


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 19, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> I would not go to Eppley, that guy is a clown and has produced some really bad results. Also pretty sure he drove a woman to commit suicide after disfiguring her.



But after reading about Anonymous999's nightmare saga, what are your thoughts on me going back to Dr. Y, even if just to get the rest of the wraparound implant placed?


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## LDNPari (Apr 19, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> But after reading about Anonymous999's nightmare saga, what are your thoughts on me going back to Dr. Y, even if just to get the rest of the wraparound implant placed?



I think Y is probably the best at designing implants from my research. I've consulted with Eppley and DeFrancq and both I feel are lacking. I think infection is a risk with whoever it is for these types of surgeries. Definitely can't defend the lack of aftercare or explain the asymmetries in the design, but I'd feel comfortable enough with Y to go with him for my surgery even after all the info. I don't think Y is a perfect option, but in the world of custom implant design, I'd say he's the best option. Eppley's designs are uncanny and comical (he has also run out of bone cement in surgery and left a patient unfinished), DeFrancq's designs are just underwhelmingly bad, Terino had good designs but he's ancient and don't know if he still practices - plus he's a Scientology quack, Ramirez had good before and afters as well but I'm pretty sure he had his medical license revoked in one state. The run of the mill Beverly Hills guys like Diamond, Champagne, and Dhir don't have nearly enough experience with custom implant surgery that I'd feel comfortable going to them. Outside of that, I can't think of a single other reputable custom implant surgeon. Basically, our options are extremely limited and they're all flawed, you just have to decide who is the least flawed, and in my case I think I will go with Y for his design and implementation even at the risk of infection (as that will always be a risk). I also don't think taking Y's design to another doctor will produce the same results, as that's what OP of this thread did when it took it to DeFrancq basically and he's unhappy with his result.


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## mblade99 (Apr 19, 2020)

hi to all,

pretty new to this forum but ive seen it around on google cuz of the knowledge on jaw surgeons and the like here. first of to the guy that started the thread and others who have posted their experiences here id like to say im so so sorry to hear about your experience to date and I really hope it gets to where you want it to be and that above all you're healthy emotionally, mentally and physically. can't have been easy going through all that.

secondly I have to say reading all your perspectives on surgeons here has been quite humbling and definitely made me really think about who I want to potentially get surgery with (and the ACTUAL cost of it!)

would really appreciate anyone here's help, advice and suggestions on what they think I can do with regards to getting the best results with jaw surgery on my thread; https://looksmax.org/threads/wanting-to-get-double-jaw-surgery-to-correct-asymmetry.129479/ 

looking to just have a one shot oral and maxillofacial surgery that will basically give my face more projection in the mid face, eye orbits, lower face, improve my facial asymmetry, fix the cant of my bite and eliminate my left jaw click totally. I imagine some type of BSSO, Lefort I or II would be necessary but obviously idk these procedures as well as some of you guys do. im going for a bittt more of a Francisco lachowski look if that makes sense  

hoping to hear from anyone here tbh


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 20, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> I think Y is probably the best at designing implants from my research. I've consulted with Eppley and DeFrancq and both I feel are lacking. I think infection is a risk with whoever it is for these types of surgeries. Definitely can't defend the lack of aftercare or explain the asymmetries in the design, but I'd feel comfortable enough with Y to go with him for my surgery even after all the info. I don't think Y is a perfect option, but in the world of custom implant design, I'd say he's the best option. Eppley's designs are uncanny and comical (he has also run out of bone cement in surgery and left a patient unfinished), DeFrancq's designs are just underwhelmingly bad, Terino had good designs but he's ancient and don't know if he still practices - plus he's a Scientology quack, Ramirez had good before and afters as well but I'm pretty sure he had his medical license revoked in one state. The run of the mill Beverly Hills guys like Diamond, Champagne, and Dhir don't have nearly enough experience with custom implant surgery that I'd feel comfortable going to them. Outside of that, I can't think of a single other reputable custom implant surgeon. Basically, our options are extremely limited and they're all flawed, you just have to decide who is the least flawed, and in my case I think I will go with Y for his design and implementation even at the risk of infection (as that will always be a risk). I also don't think taking Y's design to another doctor will produce the same results, as that's what OP of this thread did when it took it to DeFrancq basically and he's unhappy with his result.



I agree that most of Eppley's implant designs look comical and uncanny, and that's why I would only consider taking the implant that was designed for me by Dr. Y to Dr. E - since he would only be placing it and not designing it, the likelihood of me ending up with an uncanny result would be all but zero.

I really do wish I could find out if my right cheek implant only projects by 3.5 mm (as opposed to 5.5 mm on the left) because of a legitimate skeletal asymmetry, or if the lesser amount of projection was the result of an actual design error on Dr. Y's part.


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## randomvanish (Apr 21, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> I would not go to Eppley, that guy is a clown and has produced some really bad results.


can you share those please ?



LDNPari said:


> Also pretty sure he drove a woman to commit suicide after disfiguring her.


she was mentally ill obviously. didn't you see her videos ? total bullshit like "i cannot breathe". 
why you all hate that guy too much ?


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## Adrenochrome (Apr 21, 2020)

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@Gambler007


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 21, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> I agree that most of Eppley's implant designs look comical and uncanny, and that's why I would only consider taking the implant that was designed for me by Dr. Y to Dr. E - since he would only be placing it and not designing it, the likelihood of me ending up with an uncanny result would be all but zero.
> 
> I really do wish I could find out if my right cheek implant only projects by 3.5 mm (as opposed to 5.5 mm on the left) because of a legitimate skeletal asymmetry, or if the lesser amount of projection was the result of an actual design error on Dr. Y's part.



It is design error. This isn't speculation. I'm an actual patient who had a 3.5 and 5.5mm design sent to me by him as well _after receiving one where the difference was only 0.2mm_. And when I questioned it, the final design was 0.8mm difference. It's like, OK?

If you were to send that original CT to a different surgeon and not tell him about the prior design by Dr. Y, you'll find the design you receive to be much more symmetric. My suspicion is if you analyzed your proportions in the mirror, you'd probably be able to see the 2mm difference, no?

If you get new implants, fight for big, and fight for symmetric. It's your face. Don't let anyone tell you what implant is right for you.

By the way, and I didn't mention this earlier: I had unsuccessful forehead/brow surgery with Dr. Eppley years ago. The design came out looking absurd on me in real life and he had to remove the implant. *Even more, he has promoted this unsuccessful design on his website as though it's a good patient example. How many guys have requested that implant I wonder.*


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 21, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> It is design error. This isn't speculation. I'm an actual patient who had a 3.5 and 5.5mm design sent to me by him as well _after receiving one where the difference was only 0.2mm_. And when I questioned it, the final design was 0.8mm difference. It's like, OK?
> 
> If you were to send that original CT to a different surgeon and not tell him about the prior design by Dr. Y, you'll find the design you receive to be much more symmetric. My suspicion is if you analyzed your proportions in the mirror, you'd probably be able to see the 2mm difference, no?
> 
> ...



Yes, I do notice that there's an asymmetrical amount of projection between the left and right sides of my face, which really makes me regret not pushing harder for more symmetric (as well as bigger) implants in general.

Here's the thing, though - I know you said that you would NOT recommend anyone to have surgery with Dr. Y, but at the same time, between him and Eppley (and maybe Binder in LA), are there honestly any other surgeons who have anything close to a track record of tastefully designing and placing implants in male patients' faces? 

That's the thing... even though my implants need to be bigger and more symmetrical, they still provide an objective improvement what my midface looked like before. At the same time, if you do a Google image search for male cheek implant result photos, almost all the results are feminine-looking and just generally bad. So if Dr. Y and Eppley are both bad choices these days, who else is left?


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 21, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> Yes, I do notice that there's an asymmetrical amount of projection between the left and right sides of my face, which really makes me regret not pushing harder for more symmetric (as well as bigger) implants in general.
> 
> Here's the thing, though - I know you said that you would NOT recommend anyone to have surgery with Dr. Y, but at the same time, between him and Eppley (and maybe Binder in LA), are there honestly any other surgeons who have anything close to a track record of tastefully designing and placing implants in male patients' faces?
> 
> That's the thing... even though my implants need to be bigger and more symmetrical, they still provide an objective improvement what my midface looked like before. At the same time, if you do a Google image search for male cheek implant result photos, almost all the results are feminine-looking and just generally bad. So if Dr. Y and Eppley are both bad choices these days, who else is left?



*I strongly, strongly advise not to have surgery with Dr. Yaremchuk.*

Mark my words loud and clear as a warning. Rarely in life will you see such clear warnings.

We are all blinded by the thought of ideal outcome.

Coming from someone who's had unsuccessful surgeries with both Dr. Y and Dr. E (absolutely wild that I can say that), I would hands-down choose Dr. E over Dr. Y if I had to go to either again.

Because when I reflect, the unsuccessful surgery with Dr. E _was due to the design,_ but his surgical process was otherwise fine.

If you go back to Dr. Y, your risk of infection is much higher. And as I communicated earlier, if you get a midface infection, especially after seeing this thread and my warnings, you will be kicking yourself for life. The current 2mm difference in augmentation + your desire for bigger, both of which slightly annoy you now, will be laughable in the future for you if you get an infection. I would do anything to get back to where I was.

The only kicker with Eppley is that he has an obsession with silicone. But XXL cheek implants "sit on a cliff" and are much more stably integrated as Medpor.

If I were in your position, I would avoid Dr. Y and consult with Dr. E. Explain to him in detail what your current state is. Ask him how he feels about infraciliary eyelid incisions and how often he does them. Assess his confidence. Ask him how he feels about putting in silicone vs Medpor (or even PEEK) over the bone _after_ needing to remove your current Medpor implants.

You might be able to get XXL cheek implants without the need for extended infraorbital rim. If Eppley goes in through the mouth only, he could probably insert very good XXL cheek implants, allowing you to avoid the infraciliary incision. If you get 8+mm zygoma, even without extended IOR, your result will still be much better than what you have now. Essentially your zygoma will "out-power" any orbital deficiencies you think you have.


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 21, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> *I strongly, strongly advise not to have surgery with Dr. Yaremchuk.*
> 
> Mark my words loud and clear as a warning. Rarely in life will you see such clear warnings.
> 
> ...



I see what you mean about Dr. E's surgical technique possibly being superior (at least in the sense that a patient would be less prone to developing an infection as compared to if they went with Dr. Y). That's why I mentioned in a previous thread that I was thinking about getting a copy of my midface implant design file (the actual VSP software file), emailing it to Dr. E's office, and telling him to simply add 2-3 mm of projection to each implant (in addition to correcting the existing asymmetry).

That still leaves the question of whether or not I should go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining two halves of my wraparound jaw implant placed. He quoted me $8.5k for this procedure. For the sake of comparison, someone was quoted between $27-$28k by Dr. Dhir in LA back in 2018 and around $18k by Eppley. The thing is, as interest in having these procedures done has grown among males over the last 1-2 years, I've heard that Eppley has actually raised his prices within the past year, although I'm not sure about Dhir.

Having said that, do you think it would be worth risking the infection gamble to go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining pieces of my jaw implant placed, considering that it would cost less than 1/2 -1/3 of what it would cost to have it placed by other surgeons?

The only silver lining to the possibility of my wraparound jaw implant halves getting infected is that it would at least not compromise my midface or chin implant results, since I'm assuming he wouldn't have to reopen any of those incisions and therefore wouldn't have to touch/expose either the chin or midface implants in order to place the wraparound halves.

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think Dr. Y has grown to be associated with so many cases of infection, asymmetry, hematoma, and other surgical "slip-ups" in recent years? Do you think he's just getting too old to maintain the dexterity and sterility required to be a surgeon?

Edit: I noticed that you referred to my implants as Medpor implants -- they are actually silicone (just for the record).


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 22, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> I see what you mean about Dr. E's surgical technique possibly being superior (at least in the sense that a patient would be less prone to developing an infection as compared to if they went with Dr. Y). That's why I mentioned in a previous thread that I was thinking about getting a copy of my midface implant design file (the actual VSP software file), emailing it to Dr. E's office, and telling him to simply add 2-3 mm of projection to each implant (in addition to correcting the existing asymmetry).
> 
> That still leaves the question of whether or not I should go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining two halves of my wraparound jaw implant placed. He quoted me $8.5k for this procedure. For the sake of comparison, someone was quoted between $27-$28k by Dr. Dhir in LA back in 2018 and around $18k by Eppley. The thing is, as interest in having these procedures done has grown among males over the last 1-2 years, I've heard that Eppley has actually raised his prices within the past year, although I'm not sure about Dhir.
> 
> ...



Did you specifically request silicone with Dr. Y prior? Medpor tends to be Dr. Y's standard go-to. I was actually surprised when the OP mentioned having had silicone with Dr. Y.

I would ditch going back to Dr. Y altogether and just have Eppley insert your cheeks and a new chin/jaw wrap-around. Tell him you want to avoid infraciliary incisions but want XXL.

I saw your jaw design and I think you could do 10-12mm on each side instead of 8mm. In other words, don't fret about "wasting" the remaining part of the implant that Dr. Y has in storage. _You don't want that anyway._ The same way Dr. Y designed your cheeks too small, he also designed the jaw with insufficient lateral projection.

Since you have silicone in, it shouldn't be a hassle for Eppley to just remove and replace.

See if Eppley can design your jaw with PEEK over silicone, or at least see how he feels about that. Ask him about the "hanging on the cliff" aspect of silicone/PEEK for the malar implants and his thoughts on longer term stability. Ask him if he'd consider Medpor + if he's ever used it + his view on infections with it (obviously higher, but ask him, because Medpor is ideal for malar).

He will likely push silicone on you across the board, so ask him the % of cases, both for jaw and malar, which have experienced displacements despite screw immobilization.


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## LDNPari (Apr 22, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> See if Eppley can design your jaw with PEEK over silicone, or at least see how he feels about that. Ask him about the "hanging on the cliff" aspect of silicone/PEEK for the malar implants and his thoughts on longer term stability. Ask him if he'd consider Medpor + if he's ever used it + his view on infections with it (obviously higher, but ask him, because Medpor is ideal for malar).
> 
> He will likely push silicone on you across the board, so ask him the % of cases, both for jaw and malar, which have experienced displacements despite screw immobilization.



Eppley will use whatever material you ask him to, I think he's even used gold before. It's just going to be much more expensive for PEEK (I think he said that it's $30k just to order the implants) so you're probably looking at around $50k for the surgical fee. Eppley is definitely not going going to give unbiased advice about implant types, just will say he'll do whatever you want.

Curious since Eppley is known for poor designs, and you yourself had a terrible design with Eppley, why would you recommend him to design the jaw implant for @SurgeySoon? Understandably, you advocate against Yaremchuk due to the infection drama, but isn't that just a risk with every surgery of this type? Is there really no valid 3rd option for customized implants? It seems we either have a strong camp that says no to Y because some people's implants had to be removed due to infection, and then we have a camp that says no to Eppley because he lacks ethics and makes terrible designs. I'm planning a jaw wraparound implant later this year, have already consulted with Eppley, not very impressed, consulted with DeFrancq, also not impressed or surprised by this thread demonstrating he's ignorant of aesthetics. So that leaves me with an upcoming consult with Y, but now I am reading you're saying it's not even worth it because of infection risk? I'd say that's just the luck of the draw, no? Same thing could happen with Eppley. I'm definitely going to grill Y on the infection risk when consulting with him.


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## randomvanish (Apr 22, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Eppley will use whatever material you ask him to, I think he's even used gold before. It's just going to be much more expensive for PEEK (I think he said that it's $30k just to order the implants) so you're probably looking at around $50k for the surgical fee. Eppley is definitely not going going to give unbiased advice about implant types, just will say he'll do whatever you want.
> 
> Curious since Eppley is known for poor designs, and you yourself had a terrible design with Eppley, why would you recommend him to design the jaw implant for @SurgeySoon? Understandably, you advocate against Yaremchuk due to the infection drama, but isn't that just a risk with every surgery of this type? Is there really no valid 3rd option for customized implants? It seems we either have a strong camp that says no to Y because some people's implants had to be removed due to infection, and then we have a camp that says no to Eppley because he lacks ethics and makes terrible designs. I'm planning a jaw wraparound implant later this year, have already consulted with Eppley, not very impressed, consulted with DeFrancq, also not impressed or surprised by this thread demonstrating he's ignorant of aesthetics. So that leaves me with an upcoming consult with Y, but now I am reading you're saying it's not even worth it because of infection risk? I'd say that's just the luck of the draw, no? Same thing could happen with Eppley. I'm definitely going to grill Y on the infection risk when consulting with him.



You keep saying Eppley's design are bad some of the patients admit that they want them bigger. We don't know about others.
In the pictures below you can see his design predictions are precise and the last guy said in the realself eppley warns him about the big&unrealistic chin.
So why you keep bashing eppley here ?
He give whatever you want i guess.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 22, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Eppley will use whatever material you ask him to, I think he's even used gold before. It's just going to be much more expensive for PEEK (I think he said that it's $30k just to order the implants) so you're probably looking at around $50k for the surgical fee. Eppley is definitely not going going to give unbiased advice about implant types, just will say he'll do whatever you want.
> 
> Curious since Eppley is known for poor designs, and you yourself had a terrible design with Eppley, why would you recommend him to design the jaw implant for @SurgeySoon? Understandably, you advocate against Yaremchuk due to the infection drama, but isn't that just a risk with every surgery of this type? Is there really no valid 3rd option for customized implants? It seems we either have a strong camp that says no to Y because some people's implants had to be removed due to infection, and then we have a camp that says no to Eppley because he lacks ethics and makes terrible designs. I'm planning a jaw wraparound implant later this year, have already consulted with Eppley, not very impressed, consulted with DeFrancq, also not impressed or surprised by this thread demonstrating he's ignorant of aesthetics. So that leaves me with an upcoming consult with Y, but now I am reading you're saying it's not even worth it because of infection risk? I'd say that's just the luck of the draw, no? Same thing could happen with Eppley. I'm definitely going to grill Y on the infection risk when consulting with him.



Eppley designed a horrible brow/forehead implant for me that had to be removed, yes. But I also imagine that chin/jaw and malar are a lot more straightforward and easier to design. Trust that I'm not happy about having wasted time and money, but that experience with him was nothing compared to the double-infection + zero empathy and lack of care from Dr. Y. If you have a problem with Dr. Y, he will shield you out and brush you under the rug.

You have to make the decision you feel is best for you. But as I've said, I had surgery with both of them, and I issue a clear warning about Dr. Yaremchuk.


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## LDNPari (Apr 22, 2020)

randomvanish said:


> You keep saying Eppley's design are bad some of the patients admit that they want them bigger. We don't know about others.
> In the pictures below you can see his design predictions are precise and the last guy said in the realself eppley warns him about the big&unrealistic chin.
> So why you keep bashing eppley here ?
> He give whatever you want i guess.



Because his designs and implementation are bad. The most famous cause of an Eppley surgeon in the PSL forums @Saiyan said this about Eppley:






Eppley is a meme, not a good surgeron. Just look at some of the monstrosities he has produced. 









Anonymous999 said:


> Eppley designed a horrible brow/forehead implant for me that had to be removed, yes. But I also imagine that chin/jaw and malar are a lot more straightforward and easier to design. Trust that I'm not happy about having wasted time and money, but that experience with him was nothing compared to the double-infection + zero empathy and lack of care from Dr. Y. If you have a problem with Dr. Y, he will shield you out and brush you under the rug.
> 
> You have to make the decision you feel is best for you. But as I've said, I had surgery with both of them, and I issue a clear warning about Dr. Yaremchuk.



That is a big assumption that chin/jaw/malar are easier to design/implement. There have been so so many bad jaw and cheek implant results out there, Yaremchuk/Terino/Ramirez are the only doctors I've seen with consistently good aesthetic results, and two of those guys are no longer an option. I guess it weighs down to "Do I want a probable aesthetic issue with Eppley due to inability to design?" or "Do I want a potential surgical complication and poor aftercare with Yaremchuk?"


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## randomvanish (Apr 22, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Because his designs and implementation are bad. The most famous cause of an Eppley surgeon in the PSL forums @Saiyan said this about Eppley:
> 
> View attachment 369588
> 
> ...



Numerous results but you just share same few photos again and again. Eppley is the most experienced md about facial implants in the world. I don't see enough complaints about him to claim he's a bad surgeon. Yet you say "Eppley is a meme".
Don't get me wrong, i really try to understand you are so against him while you cannot post solid reasons about your point. I value your knowledge on this since you are solidly against him, i'm just curious why.

Also you just ignore the part that i said "Eppley made precise predictions most of them want that anyway". He's an extreme surgeon, he did more cartoonish surgeries like Pixee Fox's.

However at this point, i value @*Anonymous999 's *claims since he got experience with Eppley.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 22, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Eppley is a meme, not a good surgeron. Just look at some of the monstrosities he has produced.
> 
> 
> View attachment 369590



Funny the difference in people's aesthetic views. This is actually the result I'm shooting for. I had something similar to this before I lost my lower facial implants.


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## LDNPari (Apr 22, 2020)

randomvanish said:


> Numerous results but you just share same few photos again and again. Eppley is the most experienced md about facial implants in the world. I don't see enough complaints about him to claim he's a bad surgeon. Yet you say "Eppley is a meme".
> Don't get me wrong, i really try to understand you are so against him while you cannot post solid reasons about your point. I value your knowledge on this since you are solidly against him, i'm just curious why.
> 
> Also you just ignore the part that i said "Eppley made precise predictions most of them want that anyway". He's an extreme surgeon, he did more cartoonish surgeries like Pixee Fox's.
> ...



Never posted that photo before, so if you're confusing it with something else I posted it was probably just yet another bad Eppley result. There are plenty of complaints out there brother, I've been researching this topic for years. I've talked to patients of his, read various forums and review sites, and consulted with him. It's not just an opinion I formed for no reason. I wish Eppley was a good surgeon so we could have a legitimate option in custom facial implants, but he simply is not. His willingness to perform extreme surgeries on obviously mentally ill people like Pixee Fox is not a good thing, rather it displays he lacks any ethics. If you want to look like a cartoon character, sure go to Eppley, but personally I'm looking for as natural a result as possible.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 23, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> Never posted that photo before, so if you're confusing it with something else I posted it was probably just yet another bad Eppley result. There are plenty of complaints out there brother, I've been researching this topic for years. I've talked to patients of his, read various forums and review sites, and consulted with him. It's not just an opinion I formed for no reason. I wish Eppley was a good surgeon so we could have a legitimate option in custom facial implants, but he simply is not. His willingness to perform extreme surgeries on obviously mentally ill people like Pixee Fox is not a good thing, rather it displays he lacks any ethics. If you want to look like a cartoon character, sure go to Eppley, but personally I'm looking for as natural a result as possible.



Dr. Y designs small and conservative. He's very old school. Results of his designs are slight improvement but not very conspicuous. When I had non-CT chin/jaw implants with him 12 years ago, he said those exact words to me in the recovery room - "right now you're swollen, but in 4 weeks you'll say, 'couldn't you have made them bigger?'" So he clearly has heard that from his patients before. And although my result was improvement, yes, he certainly could have made them bigger.

My impression is that Eppley understands that most guys want more dramatic results. Eppley is younger. You can tell by his social media that he takes a more "trendy" approach to plastic surgery.

You should just articulate to Dr. E that you want conservative changes. That would probably mean 8-10mm on the posterior jaw angles and ~10mm on the chin (regardless of your projections now). 4-5mm on malar will give you conservative but reasonable changes.

I personally look for the dramatic change that you posted with Eppley's chin/jaw implant patient above. A fraction of the guys here would view that as "overly Superman and absurd," but I see that as a very good result.


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 24, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> You should just articulate to Dr. E that you want conservative changes. That would probably mean 8-10mm on the posterior jaw angles





Anonymous999 said:


> Did you specifically request silicone with Dr. Y prior? Medpor tends to be Dr. Y's standard go-to. I was actually surprised when the OP mentioned having had silicone with Dr. Y.
> 
> I would ditch going back to Dr. Y altogether and just have Eppley insert your cheeks and a new chin/jaw wrap-around. Tell him you want to avoid infraciliary incisions but want XXL.
> 
> ...



I didn't specifically request silicone with Dr. Y; my understanding is that he has become more open in general to using it as an implant material. After his office secretary emailed me my implant designs, she asked me if I wanted silicone or Medpor. I told her I wasn't sure and asked her if Dr. Y had a recommendation one way or the other, and he responded and told her to tell me to just go with silicone in case I'd lke removal one day (obviously this was a good call).

Regarding the wraparound jaw implant that Dr. Y designed and is holding for me -- the thing is, my jaw angles aren't that narrow to begin with, so I'm honestly not sure if I'd look good with even more projection than I have now. I would just hate to have to spend 3x as much having a totally new jaw implant designed/placed by another surgeon if Dr. Y's implant would look just as good (and for 1/3 of the price).

At this point, I'm lending serious consideration to requesting my midface implants design file (the actual VPS software file itself) from Dr. Y's office, sending it to Eppley, and telling him to stick with the exact same design and just add an additional 2-3 mm to both the lateral and anterior aspects of the implants (in addition to correcting the 2 mm asymmetry that exists between both implants). The only silver lining to my surgery with Dr. Y is that I at least know that the implant design itself looks good and natural in my face, so I don't think it will be necessary to have totally new implants designed. I think it would literally be ideal to just have the exact same implants in my face, just with more projection.


Anonymous999 said:


> Dr. Y designs small and conservative. He's very old school. Results of his designs are slight improvement but not very conspicuous. When I had non-CT chin/jaw implants with him 12 years ago, he said those exact words to me in the recovery room - "right now you're swollen, but in 4 weeks you'll say, 'couldn't you have made them bigger?'" So he clearly has heard that from his patients before. And although my result was improvement, yes, he certainly could have made them bigger.
> 
> My impression is that Eppley understands that most guys want more dramatic results. Eppley is younger. You can tell by his social media that he takes a more "trendy" approach to plastic surgery.
> 
> ...



That's what frustrates me about Dr. Y. I can understand him wanting his patients to get natural results, but at the same time, is it really worth spending upwards of $20k (literally close to what it costs to have custom midface and wraparound jaw implants designed and placed) for results that are so subtle and inconspicuous that they border on being unnoticeable? 

Honestly, why do you think he insists on designing implants with such conservative dimensions, even for patients who explicitly tell him they want more noticeable results? Is it basically a game of trying to place his patients in the post-op scenario where they'd say, "Well, it's definitely not what I was hoping to get since the results are so subtle... but at the same time, it's not like it looks 'bad' and at least I wasn't botched, so can I really complain?," while also doing what he can to avoid developing a reputation of being a surgeon who makes his patients look comical and overdone (sort of like the reputation Eppley has developed)?


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 24, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> I didn't specifically request silicone with Dr. Y; my understanding is that he has become more open in general to using it as an implant material. After his office secretary emailed me my implant designs, she asked me if I wanted silicone or Medpor. I told her I wasn't sure and asked her if Dr. Y had a recommendation one way or the other, and he responded and told her to tell me to just go with silicone in case I'd lke removal one day (obviously this was a good call).
> 
> Regarding the wraparound jaw implant that Dr. Y designed and is holding for me -- the thing is, my jaw angles aren't that narrow to begin with, so I'm honestly not sure if I'd look good with even more projection than I have now. I would just hate to have to spend 3x as much having a totally new jaw implant designed/placed by another surgeon if Dr. Y's implant would look just as good (and for 1/3 of the price).
> 
> At this point, I'm lending serious consideration to requesting my midface implants design file (the actual VPS software file itself) from Dr. Y's office, sending it to Eppley, and telling him to stick with the exact same design and just add an additional 2-3 mm to both the lateral and anterior aspects of the implants (in addition to correcting the 2 mm asymmetry that exists between both implants). The only silver lining to my surgery with Dr. Y is that I at least know that the implant design itself looks good and natural in my face, so I don't think it will be necessary to have totally new implants designed. I think it would literally be ideal to just have the exact same implants in my face, just with more projection.



Don't add to current implants. Just get new implants altogether. I think this is what you meant anyway - i.e., keep design the "same," but just increase projection. As I mentioned with my prior surgery, when he added to current implant, it created a crunching/cracking palpable effect.



SurgerySoon said:


> That's what frustrates me about Dr. Y. I can understand him wanting his patients to get natural results, but at the same time, is it really worth spending upwards of $20k (literally close to what it costs to have custom midface and wraparound jaw implants designed and placed) for results that are so subtle and inconspicuous that they border on being unnoticeable?
> 
> Honestly, why do you think he insists on designing implants with such conservative dimensions, even for patients who explicitly tell him they want more noticeable results? Is it basically a game of trying to place his patients in the post-op scenario where they'd say, "Well, it's definitely not what I was hoping to get since the results are so subtle... but at the same time, it's not like it looks 'bad' and at least I wasn't botched, so can I really complain?," while also doing what he can to avoid developing a reputation of being a surgeon who makes his patients look comical and overdone (sort of like the reputation Eppley has developed)?



Comes down to aesthetic views I believe. @LDNPari for instance prefers subtle changes and would probably be content with a Dr Y-style design. I on the other hand prefer a more extreme/dramatic look on par with some of Eppley's designs. You get some guys commenting negatively on some of Eppley's "Superman" designs, but I see these as actually good.

Dr. Y is old school and conservative. He views aesthetics through the lens of well-balanced + subtle change (i.e., success is unnoticeable improvement). Eppley seems to have the new generational approach - i.e., build up the structure prominently for the young male.


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## Moneymaxxed (Apr 24, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> Don't add to current implants. Just get new implants altogether. I think this is what you meant anyway - i.e., keep design the "same," but just increase projection. As I mentioned with my prior surgery, when he added to current implant, it created a crunching/cracking palpable effect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where are you able to view examples? Their websites? Realself?


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## Deleted member 4991 (Apr 24, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *Discord Invite Drop: LMS CARTEL (1st wave🌊): https://discord.gg/M8uKpNs*
> 
> @Hal Rosi
> @Saturn
> ...


Can I join as well? I had two surgeries done already.


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## Perma Virgin 666 (Apr 26, 2020)

Adrenochrome said:


> *Discord Invite Drop: LMS CARTEL (1st wave🌊): https://discord.gg/M8uKpNs*
> 
> @Hal Rosi
> @Saturn
> ...


can you post another invite, this one is no longer valid.


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## Perma Virgin 666 (Apr 26, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> Funny the difference in people's aesthetic views. This is actually the result I'm shooting for. I had something similar to this before I lost my lower facial implants.


thats weird that you are looking for such a result. i guess it depends on what your goal is: getting puss puss or being a lolcow? 
aesthetically the guy post OP looks objectively horrendous. his proportions are way off. extremely elongated face, square jaw on a skinny chicken neck. his chin is asymmetric. his lower third is trying to look chaddy and manly, but everything else doesnt. 
i dont really know what aspects of life are supposed to improve from a surgery like that.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 28, 2020)

Perma Virgin 666 said:


> thats weird that you are looking for such a result. i guess it depends on what your goal is: getting puss puss or being a lolcow?
> aesthetically the guy post OP looks objectively horrendous. his proportions are way off. extremely elongated face, square jaw on a skinny chicken neck. his chin is asymmetric. his lower third is trying to look chaddy and manly, but everything else doesnt.
> i dont really know what aspects of life are supposed to improve from a surgery like that.



People have different views on aesthetics. Your comments don't provide value for anyone here.


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## SurgerySoon (Apr 28, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> Don't add to current implants. Just get new implants altogether. I think this is what you meant anyway - i.e., keep design the "same," but just increase projection. As I mentioned with my prior surgery, when he added to current implant, it created a crunching/cracking palpable effect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



On the topic of having the additional implant onlay layered on top of my current implants - Dr. Y had actually suggested doing this by having the onlay implants themselves manufactured by Implantech as essentially a second pair of my current implants (just of less thickness). That way, he said the onlay implants should fit snugly on top of my current implants without any noticeable issues. Do you still think the onlay implant layer would be a bad idea, even if executed in the manner I described?

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, what are your thoughts on going to Dr. Y to have eye area work done (e.g., orbital decompression, correction of lower lid retraction, canthopexy)? From what I read, he actually used to be considered one of the go-to guys for these kinds of procedures until until the latest generation of oculoplastic surgeons like Dr. Taban came along in recent years. Would you also advice against going to him for non-implant procedures as well?


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 29, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> On the topic of having the additional implant onlay layered on top of my current implants - Dr. Y had actually suggested doing this by having the onlay implants themselves manufactured by Implantech as essentially a second pair of my current implants (just of less thickness). That way, he said the onlay implants should fit snugly on top of my current implants without any noticeable issues. Do you still think the onlay implant layer would be a bad idea, even if executed in the manner I described?
> 
> Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, what are your thoughts on going to Dr. Y to have eye area work done (e.g., orbital decompression, correction of lower lid retraction, canthopexy)? From what I read, he actually used to be considered one of the go-to guys for these kinds of procedures until until the latest generation of oculoplastic surgeons like Dr. Taban came along in recent years. Would you also advice against going to him for non-implant procedures as well?



I am unfortunately not able to recommend Dr. Y in any form after my back-to-back infections with him + his complete lack of empathy and care for me as a patient.

I do not recommend stacking in any form either. Just get new implants if you want more augmentation. You don't want to be "paper mache," especially on your cheeks. You will end up living out life feeling fragile about the stability of your cheeks. You want strong, solid implants for your midface.

You're actually "lucky" that your midface soft tissue will have been stretched slightly from your current augmentation. This will afford you to go 7-9mm zygoma for your second implant design. (I have 7.4 and 8.2 and am very confident about my malar now.) I remember reading a post of Eppley's where he said he's designed cheek implants as thick as 9mm. 

After you get new XXL malar, you might not even feel like you need eye work done, as you'll look strikingly better. But if you do choose to go that route, seek out a specialist who is not Dr. Y. There are tons of surgeons in the world. Just do your research.

You'll make your own decisions in the end. Just take my input about Dr. Y here as the luckiest warning you could have received in life.


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## BNCcel (Apr 29, 2020)

LDNPari said:


> View attachment 369590



WTF


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## ScramFranklin (Apr 29, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> People have different views on aesthetics. Your comments don't provide value for anyone here.


They absolutely do. And I think you are the perfect example of that. People scrolling through this may not notice that you think those very large Eppley results are ideal. For the vast majority of potential patients, those results will appear to be _*comically ridiculous.*_ So when you say, "Y is too conservative"..... it's crucial to note that you have views on aesthetics that differ from the majority of potential patients.


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## Anonymous999 (Apr 29, 2020)

ScramFranklin said:


> They absolutely do. And I think you are the perfect example of that. People scrolling through this may not notice that you think those very large Eppley results are ideal. For the vast majority of potential patients, those results will appear to be _*comically ridiculous.*_ So when you say, "Y is too conservative"..... it's crucial to note that you have views on aesthetics that differ from the majority of potential patients.



Yeah, I think extreme results are better. That's my view.


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## Vladimir makarov (Apr 30, 2020)

@Azzolecrusher


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## Hekt0r (May 2, 2020)

did not read no pics im not going thru 13 pages to search for them shit thread kys unsticky now


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## Deleted member 4991 (May 4, 2020)

May I get a discord invite please? :[


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## Cargo (May 6, 2020)

I'd also like a discord invite-- amazing story. I'm from the BeNeLux so I'm excited to hear about this surgeon. Would greatly appreciate it if you would invite me so I could further discuss your thoughts on him and your experiences. Thanks in advance.

I'm hyped. I'm pumped. I'm jacked. I'M JACKED TO THE TITS!


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## Cargo (May 6, 2020)

That was my first post on the forum and you definitely deserve it, I posted it right after reading the original post. I am sorry to hear about your concluding thoughts regarding DeFranq.

But I gotta say, you're so positive and endearing. And your prose fucking rocks. Reading your story is a rollercoaster filled with tension, you could be a Hollywood writer, and later star in your own movie when you're done with what you gotta do, because you're so determined that I just know you will reach your goals. I mean holy shit, that covid post was so good. Your writing style is great man. Read your thread back to back, and I'm a slow reader (fucken dyslexia). If karmic justice is a thing, then you should be at the top of the list of people who deserve a great future, because your positivity is astounding bro. Just love the kind words and genuine care you seem to have and show for others, and the entertaining way with which you tell your story. Honestly wish we were friends because your way of engaging would make my day. Hope you're doing well much love and hope I can be brought along on your journey.




Anonymous999 said:


> I don't know if Dr. Yaremchuk will ever come across this post of mine. If he does, he will know it's me. And I would say to you: I forgive you for what's happened. I don't think you're a bad person at heart. I know you wouldn't have wished this for me. Just would have meant the world to me if you had reached out even once to ask how I was doing.



This broke my heart man, I hope a miracle happens and for the damage to be undone... You're a strong and good person, I can tell from the way in which you have been able to process this traumatic experience.


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## paulus1 (May 9, 2020)

Hi Cargo, where r u from in the benelux? and what surgeons did you consult so far? I'm from Antwerp


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## SurgerySoon (May 12, 2020)

Anonymous999 said:


> I am unfortunately not able to recommend Dr. Y in any form after my back-to-back infections with him + his complete lack of empathy and care for me as a patient.
> 
> I do not recommend stacking in any form either. Just get new implants if you want more augmentation. You don't want to be "paper mache," especially on your cheeks. You will end up living out life feeling fragile about the stability of your cheeks. You want strong, solid implants for your midface.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice. The only reason I am/was partial to going back to Dr. Y for my midface implant revision surgery is because the actual design of the implants he created for me is so good -- it's just that they're not big enough. Just out of curiosity, what surgeons would you recommend considering? Do you think the best plan is likely to just send my design file to Eppley, have him fabricate new versions of the exact same implants with 2-3 mm of additional augmentation (I.e., leave the actual design unchanged - just add more projection), and then have him do the surgery?


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## Ascensionrequired (May 12, 2020)

SurgerySoon said:


> Thanks for the advice. The only reason I am/was partial to going back to Dr. Y for my midface implant revision surgery is because the actual design of the implants he created for me is so good -- it's just that they're not big enough. Just out of curiosity, what surgeons would you recommend considering? Do you think the best plan is likely to just send my design file to Eppley, have him fabricate new versions of the exact same implants with 2-3 mm of additional augmentation (I.e., leave the actual design unchanged - just add more projection), and then have him do the surgery?



Just out of curiosity. How much money have you spend so far for the implants with dr Y including revision?


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## SurgerySoon (May 12, 2020)

Ascensionrequired said:


> Just out of curiosity. How much money have you spend so far for the implants with dr Y including revision?



About $20k; haven't done any revisions yet. That includes the cost of designing custom midface and wraparound jaw implants, as well as to place the midface implants and the chin portion of the wraparound implant (I had been planning on going back to Dr. Y soon to have the rest of the jaw implant placed until reading this thread gave me pause). I also had submental lipectomy (double chin fat removal) performed.


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## riftpersiancat (Jul 21, 2020)

@Adrenochrome Hey I would also Like a discord invite to your server. Honestly from reading all these posts, God Bless you ! and you did not deserve any of this mental/physical trauma. If I was you, I would sue these grossly incompetent surgeons that performed implants on your face. Nice guys like you don't deserve any of this.


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## CopingCel (Jul 21, 2020)

I'd like a discord invite as well, if possible


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## GigaMogger (Aug 16, 2020)

No pics rodeblurmaxx no care


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## Deleted member 5799 (Jan 19, 2021)

Sorry for the bump

How is it to have the masseter detached?

I mean, its painful?

What do you see, aesthetically speaking, asymmetry on face?

Can it be solved and does it happen on surgery or can happen randomly after?

Sorry for the questions, i dont understand well how fucked the situation is.


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## Deleted member 5799 (Jan 19, 2021)

spain said:


> Sorry for the bump
> 
> How is it to have the masseter detached?
> 
> ...


@Adrenochrome


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## Wallenberg (Jan 20, 2021)

Eppley seems to have a reputation of producing too extreme results. However, could it be that because Eppley has this reputation, he gets patients that are actually trying to get these unnatural results? If so, then it's not Eppley's fault - he just delivers what patients want. What I am asking is that can Eppley deliver if I want a natural-looking jaw implant? If I want a wide and angular jaw, but not comically wide superman jaw, can Eppley deliver? 

Yaremchuk seems to deliver natural-looking results, but sometimes they might a bit too conservative. Also, some posts seem to indicate that he isn't the most approachable surgeon. However, I have seen some good results from Yaremchuk.


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## reptiles (Feb 15, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY
> 
> As I wrote from previous thread: I got a custom Peek jaw and chin wraparound with a specialized genioplasty that fits within the chin portion of the peek to make a natural mentolabial fold by Dr. Defrancq.
> 
> ...




The down time man is fucking awful man 2 years just to fix this shit combined with infection risks


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## patricknotstar (Feb 18, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY
> 
> As I wrote from previous thread: I got a custom Peek jaw and chin wraparound with a specialized genioplasty that fits within the chin portion of the peek to make a natural mentolabial fold by Dr. Defrancq.
> 
> ...


How are u going to travel during covid


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## Cretinous (Feb 20, 2021)

OP's post makes Defrancq sound like a conscientious and thorough individual. 

Teenagers with wild dreams in their head don't get this because they lack maturity and perspective, but that's _so_ important guys, especially since you are literally placing your life in the hands of this person.


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## randomvanish (Mar 9, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> My thought process behind designing my implant was intense and highly personal: I chose around 8 different individuals faces who I admired aesthetically and in the first process of elimination literally superimposed their jaw/chin onto mine using photoshop.
> 
> It did not matter whose face I admired the most as I was looking for which features fit my face best (looked natural as my own). As it so happened, my highest regarded individual, aesthetically speaking, matched my lower third in all respects (it was beautiful) and at that point; I knew I had the foundational framework to begin designing my implant the way I wanted.
> 
> ...


thank you for thread but you still not explanining how design process gone?

what dr.y or you consider to get it done ?

Like which gonial angle, how many width to add, mathcing with other proportions etc. How you decided all ?


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## Deleted member 15305 (Oct 2, 2021)

@badg96 lifefuel


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## Adrenochrome (Oct 23, 2021)

My my my… it’s been quite some time my dear friends. 

Just logged in for the first time in months… perhaps even a year but I digress… hope you are all doing well on your paths to ascension.

Unfortunately I am still walking mine… PEEK is excellent and I’d rather not settle for anything less regarding my lower third, however US surgeons lack the ability to not only perform with the aforementioned but also to source it: E stated he can use any material but once I put down my deposit for surgery, he reneged and stated he could not source it and would not be offering it anymore (if anyone has updated information on this i.e. this month, do tell). So, rather than settling for subpar material a’la silicone, axed the entire surgery 🪓 

With that being said, I’ve decided to focus on my eye area now before delving deep into the abyss of the lower third (that is truly hell).

I had scheduled surgery with Dr. Taban (everything was set and flew out there), however, once in his office for the “pre inspection” before surgery, he stated that in order to achieve what I wanted, it would be 30k now and involve the orbital box osteotomy… This had me taken aback as I’d not planned to drop an extra 8-10k, nor bare the brunt of a much more brutal procedure which entailed more risk (to which I am averse) and more downtime for recovery. 

I bowed out, returned home and reassessed. Now… I am pooling all resources to expedite this “adventure” but am curious if anyone here has ventured via 
box osteotomy to new windows of the soul 🪟 👁 🎭

Also… have we found any new surgeons aside from Taban who encompass his surgical prowess? (I presume not but would love to be surprised).

NOTE: Fuck Defrancq 💯 he did not hold up his end of the deal which was to operate on me again if I waited until one year after the date of my surgery (obviously we are far past that mark!). Such a disappointment, now I’ve to find a surgeon who is able and ready to perform with PEEK (flawless execution mind you). Sailor would be the only one at this time. Conversely, settle for subpar material (silicone) which I do not want. 

I do NOT advise anyone here to entangle themselves with such a deceptive individual a’la Mr. Defrancq.


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## metagross (Oct 23, 2021)

I wish you good luck OP. Must be especially brutal to be so close to ascension only to have it snatched away because of infection and subsequent failed surgeries. 
Is it really that hard to find a good surgeon who works with PEEK and doesn't fail?


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## Adrenochrome (Oct 23, 2021)

metagross said:


> I wish you good luck OP. Must be especially brutal to be so close to ascension only to have it snatched away because of infection and subsequent failed surgeries.
> Is it really that hard to find a good surgeon who works with PEEK and doesn't fail?


Thanks very much friend 🙏🏼

***I must make an amendment as I cannot edit my original reply: Orbital Decompression (not box osteotomy) drastically different procedures.

As to your query… it would seem so! US surgeons are so lackadaisical and laissez faire concerning the utilization/implementation of different implant material it vexes me to no end. It’s simply… “Silicone” or medpore… no Titanium, no PEEK etc.

Then you’ve European surgeons with their colosseum sized egos spewing their ideal aesthetic, shrouded in passive aggressive hollow blocks; you’ve to walk a fine line lest you shatter their foundation and they all but crumble (I’ll say with the exception of ).

Fuck them all tbh: we’re in a time where we should be far advanced from our current position with respect to aesthetic procedures. Also not beholden to the same select surgeons in such a limited sphere (which thus limits our options). 

Not to wax poetic but I suppose it’s analogous to being a slave/peasant in our current paradigm of neo feudalism; we’re suppressed from the latest technology/innovation and not privy to those things that our masters above so carelessly enjoy. Perhaps if one were at the reigns of power such as that bozo Bezos, then you could have thee absolute superlative surgeon with the thee most modern biocompatible material (surely both of the aforesaid are currently presently available, albeit for a select few).

In any case it doesn’t matter: curious as to what you’re looking to have done or have already done @metagross 

I’m fairly certain Taban can deliver acceptable results (perhaps slightly underwhelming) I don’t think he’s worth 30k but it is what it is.


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## Deleted member 4054 (Oct 23, 2021)

Welcome back man. Coincidentally I also logged on for the first time in forever this week. Did you have all the peek implants removed? And I know a very good surgeon in the US who uses custom titanium in the mandible, but I'm not sure whether he'd push things to the dimensions you'd be looking for and he's not the easiest person to consult and collaborate with (extremely busy practice, consults are very short)


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## Adrenochrome (Oct 23, 2021)

Good to see you M8🤟🏼🖤 

No I still have them (far better with than without) 

I’m very intrigued… who is this you speak of? (feel free to pm if you don’t want to drop publicly). It would definitely be worth a consult to see if we’re on or can reach the same wave 🌊 

How have you been and what’s the word with you?


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## Deleted member 4054 (Oct 23, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> Good to see you M8🤟🏼🖤
> 
> No I still have them (far better with than without)
> 
> ...


Sent a pm. I'm doin good man, just riding this crypto market and looking for a new house


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## Deleted member 5786 (Oct 23, 2021)

Before/after photos? At least of jaw


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## 6ft4 (Oct 28, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> NOTE: Fuck Defrancq 💯 he did not hold up his end of the deal which was to operate on me again if I waited until one year after the date of my surgery (obviously we are far past that mark!). Such a disappointment, now I’ve to find a surgeon who is able and ready to perform with PEEK (flawless execution mind you). Sailor would be the only one at this time. Conversely, settle for subpar material (silicone) which I do not want.
> 
> I do NOT advise anyone here to entangle themselves with such a deceptive individual a’la Mr. Defrancq.


I am in talks of getting jaw implants with DeFrancq (as well as other procedures)
How would you rate the implants result you got /10?


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## dingopump (Oct 29, 2021)

6ft4 said:


> I am in talks of getting jaw implants with DeFrancq (as well as other procedures)
> How would you rate the implants result you got /10?


I'm considering doing cheek-orbital implants & Bimax with him as well.

I already had SARPE with him, and everything was good.


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## Deleted member 10615 (Oct 29, 2021)

what a shit fucking thread, imagine getting surgery then not showing the before and after


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## Deleted member 14139 (Oct 30, 2021)

OP i hope your implant erodes your entire mandible down to the flesh


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## bl0odyme5s (Oct 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> My thought process behind designing my implant was intense and highly personal: I chose around 8 different individuals faces who I admired aesthetically and in the first process of elimination literally superimposed their jaw/chin onto mine using photoshop.
> 
> It did not matter whose face I admired the most as I was looking for which features fit my face best (looked natural as my own). As it so happened, my highest regarded individual, aesthetically speaking, matched my lower third in all respects (it was beautiful) and at that point; I knew I had the foundational framework to begin designing my implant the way I wanted.
> 
> ...


who are the models faces you used also congrats on the success huge inspiration to me


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## khvirgin (Oct 30, 2021)

Drago Soprano said:


> OP i hope your implant erodes your entire mandible down to the flesh


why


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## Adrenochrome (Oct 30, 2021)

wanttobeattractive said:


> what a shit fucking thread, imagine getting surgery then not showing the before and after



Normally I would reply:

_Now imagine begging and barking for implant photos on the internet to random strangers for surgeries you’ll never have 😘
You could have pm’d me but you’re too low IQ 🤷🏻‍♂️ … however I do find your post count quite impressive… rot away sweetie pie 🥧 kiss xoxo_ 💋


^^ Normally... however, given the circumstances.... do PM me if you want to see Y. result (not DeFrancq because he fucked everything up). I will go back to Y. or E. to fix everything.

That goes for anyone else that wants to see Y's result (aside from a select few scumbags on here).


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## Deleted member 10615 (Oct 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> Normally I would reply:
> 
> _Now imagine begging and barking for implant photos on the internet to random strangers for surgeries you’ll never have 😘
> You could have pm’d me but you’re too low IQ 🤷🏻‍♂️ … however I do find your post count quite impressive… rot away sweetie pie 🥧 kiss xoxo_ 💋
> ...


bro what is the point not showing the photos? you might aswell not tell people here you got surgery since there is no photos also should of went to that surgeon in australia since im guessing your european your money is worth way more here and he has extremley good results


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## Adrenochrome (Oct 30, 2021)

wanttobeattractive said:


> bro what is the point not showing the photos? you might aswell not tell people here you got surgery since there is no photos also should of went to that surgeon in australia since im guessing your european your money is worth way more here and he has extremley good results


Brother just PM me because Defrancq really fucked up my entire aesthetic: I will not show his subpar “workmanship” but I will showcase Y’s talent/ability because THAT is the pinnacle of perfection (to me) and THAT is what I will go back to. 

(I state emphatically that I do not recommend anyone go to D. unless you want subpar results) it’s really disappointing to see so many people actually considering him but to each their own (their loss).

Moreover, if you’re referring to Dr Paul Coceancig? He would not be able to achieve my desired results (I looked into him years ago) *He might be good for others depending on their desires? (idk)


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## Deleted member 10615 (Oct 30, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> Brother just PM me because Defrancq really fucked up my entire aesthetic: I will not show his subpar “workmanship” but I will showcase Y’s talent/ability because THAT is the pinnacle of perfection (to me) and THAT is what I will go back to.
> 
> (I state emphatically that I do not recommend anyone go to D. unless you want subpar results) it’s really disappointing to see so many people actually considering him but to each their own (their loss).
> 
> Moreover, if you’re referring to Dr Paul Coceancig? He would not be able to achieve my desired results (I looked into him years ago) *He might be good for others depending on their desires? (idk)


ill pm you, did you get jaw work done and the surgeon fucked you up?


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## CristianT (Oct 31, 2021)

6ft4 said:


> I am in talks of getting jaw implants with DeFrancq (as well as other procedures)
> How would you rate the implants result you got /10?


He is too conservative and he only does what he wants.


Adrenochrome said:


> Brother just PM me because Defrancq really fucked up my entire aesthetic: I will not show his subpar “workmanship” but I will showcase Y’s talent/ability because THAT is the pinnacle of perfection (to me) and THAT is what I will go back to.
> 
> (I state emphatically that I do not recommend anyone go to D. unless you want subpar results) it’s really disappointing to see so many people actually considering him but to each their own (their loss).
> 
> Moreover, if you’re referring to Dr Paul Coceancig? He would not be able to achieve my desired results (I looked into him years ago) *He might be good for others depending on their desires? (idk)


Hey bro, long time no see, ey?
What do you think about jaw angles? How was your jaw angles with the dr. Y? Did you had angularity, acute inclination, definition and added a lot of width to your bigonial? If yes how did dr.Y managed to accomplish all of those specifics above? From what I understand it depends on how much your massateur muscle can handle to stretch it and also the thickness of the implant. What is your opinion?

Also when you made your design did you contribute a lot or it was just dr. Y designed them? Maybe you could help with some insights cause next week I will already start designed them(jaw angles). I can PM with a morph I made, if you want.

P.S. im asking cause next month I'll be getting them. For now I prefer to not say who is the surgeon, I want to see how the results will be first.


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## Adrenochrome (Oct 31, 2021)

CristianT said:


> He is too conservative and he only does what he wants.



Exactly 💯 🔨 




CristianT said:


> Hey bro, long time no see, ey?
> What do you think about jaw angles? How was your jaw angles with the dr. Y? Did you had angularity, acute inclination, definition and added a lot of width to your bigonial? If yes how did dr.Y managed to accomplish all of those specifics above? From what I understand it depends on how much your massateur muscle can handle to stretch it and also the thickness of the implant. What is your opinion?



My very good brother, indeed it’s been a minute! 🥃🥃 Shout out to @Barbarossa_ too if he is still here (we must talk bro) 

PM me and I’ll show you Dr. Y’s aesthetic.
It was PROPER 🔥🖤🔥 

My opinion is that Dr. Y is thee premier with respect to aesthetics but the caveat being… if something goes awry, that’s it… you’ll have a long path to salvation, to put it mildly… I am extremely trepidatious (still, even knowing that he put me on God Mode).

Concerning jaw angles only 📐💀 Everyone’s foundation is different so maybe it’s all you need in your particular case. However, my personal opinion is that the wraparound is superlative aesthetically speaking (I needed much more than just angles and I wouldn’t feel comfortable with them only i.e. would never achieve my desired aesthetic).

I wish you luck in your endeavor with whatever path you take (I hope you make it man 💯) 



CristianT said:


> Also when you made your design did you contribute a lot or it was just dr. Y designed them? Maybe you could help with some insights cause next week I will already start designed them(jaw angles). I can PM with a morph I made, if you want.


I think I had more input than most… I literally had every detail down to the last degree, including 3D frameworks and the physiognomy of models (one in particular) that he translated into reality (there was no push back and he nailed it the first time with minor adjustments).

One thing to note is that all surgeons have an aesthetic bias (Dr. Y is no different in this regard) and perhaps our collaboration worked so well was because his aesthetic ideal is very close to mine, so he almost innately knew what I aspired to and thus there was a certain natural fluidity or ebb and flow to the design process (complete 180 to Defrancq with his tapered “aesthetic” and injected biases).


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## Perma Virgin 666 (Oct 31, 2021)

Adrenochrome said:


> My my my… it’s been quite some time my dear friends.
> 
> Just logged in for the first time in months… perhaps even a year but I digress… hope you are all doing well on your paths to ascension.
> 
> ...


where do you get all that money for surgeries? Are you jewish? you shit out money ... 10k for this, 20k for that, 800 bucks a night for hotels, 5k for flights. How's that possible? 
You're in Luzern? Place is like twice as expensive as any normal place that isn't switzerland. you got to be a Manager. Or maybe you own companies.


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## Cretinous (Nov 18, 2021)

Posting in a mental illness thread for posterity


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## Time Travel (Nov 18, 2021)

Almu said:


> Just came for the pics
> View attachment 232725
> 
> Got disappointed


same


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## Chadethnic101 (Nov 18, 2021)

Perma Virgin 666 said:


> where do you get all that money for surgeries? Are you jewish? you shit out money ... 10k for this, 20k for that, 800 bucks a night for hotels, 5k for flights. How's that possible?
> You're in Luzern? Place is like twice as expensive as any normal place that isn't switzerland. you got to be a Manager. Or maybe you own companies.


He is rich. Everyone else has to be realistic with their ascension. What can u realistically do with the funds u have..
Don't save for 15 years and build no life for yourself then be 40 years old with a ascended past prime face but fuck all to your name... Good luck in life after that mental health illness will probs ensure along with a mid life crisis..


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## Looksmax25 (Dec 26, 2021)

Does anyone have photos of 7ish mm on cheek/malar area?


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## Zhuurst (Dec 30, 2021)

This entire thread is  material. This guy had unlimited funds and high IQ research ability, yet mother nature brutally slapped him down. It's over.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Jan 3, 2022)

Adrenochrome said:


> Exactly 💯 🔨
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@Adrenochrome hey buddy hope you’re doing well. I joined recently but I’ve been lurking on this thread for a long time. I was always curious about Ys work as you praised it a lot atleast the aesthetic half.

I was wondering if you mind sharing your pics post Y implants.
Much appreciated!!


----------

