# Ronald Ead's facial changes in mms before and after MSE



## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
ipd increased by 1.5mm
nasal base increased by 4.9mm
lip width increased by 6.3
philtrum stayed exactly the same
bizygomatic increased by 5.1mm

i rounded conservatively so these measurements are the minimum with potential to be slightly higher


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## Chadelite (Dec 23, 2019)

where can i get this?


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## nastynas (Dec 23, 2019)

Chadelite said:


> where can i get this?


your nearby supermarket


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## Chadelite (Dec 23, 2019)

nastynas said:


> your nearby supermarket


walmart or tesco?


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## needsolution (Dec 23, 2019)

SO FINALLY TRUTH
IPD INCREASED, WE ARE SAVED


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## LordNorwood (Dec 23, 2019)

The fact that ipd increased is insane


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## OldRooster (Dec 23, 2019)

Post pics you used. I highly suspect you are using pics taken by Kundel’s office, the before picture exhibiting significant distortion.


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## Chadelite (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
> Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
> ipd increased by 1.5mm
> nasal base increased by 4.9mm
> ...


@eyes GTFIH IPD INCREASE


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

OldRooster said:


> Post pics you used. I highly suspect you are using pics taken by Kundel’s office, the before picture exhibiting significant distortion.


I used the pics that were in @Golden Glass MSE thread, there was 0 distortion I measured his iris and they were 55 pixels exactly in both photos


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## Golden Glass (Dec 23, 2019)

Much better post than your mewing one.

Which photographs did you use?

When I used the irises as a constant (you said you used pupils and they can change in dilation but I’ll assume you made a mistake and just meant irises).

I found no change in IPD, and if there was one, it was borderline negligible. Too small to ever be perceived in real life...so maybe your estimate of 1.5 mm is true.

Copy and paste the link below to see that I used irises as a constant and there was *no noticeable change in IPD*.

imgur.com/a/5mDdnko

UPDATE:
thinking about it more...

If Ead _really did get 1.5 mm increase_...

Keeping in mind the increase isn’t noticeable at all in his face and thus making no difference to his aesthetics....

The best thing that could be said is that since Ead was much older...
Potentially, IPD increase can be greater in younger patients.

So even though Ead’s IPD increase, if it even exists, is insignificant...
There’s a POTENTIAL silver lining for younger people.

HOPE or COPE?

Only way to find out is to get a young richcel like @PubertyMaxxer to get MSE, and go to an optometrist to perfectly measure his IPD before and after. If it’s at least 2-2.5 mm increase. It’s hope. If it’s closer to Ead’s and thus unnoticeable, it’s cope.


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

Golden Glass said:


> Much better post than your mewing one.
> 
> Which photographs did you use?
> 
> ...






Holy fuck his gonial angle got better


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> Holy fuck his gonial angle got better


that was from keeping his molars together, widening the maxilla doesn’t affect the gonial in the slightest, it might widen the bigonian distance but that is the very most


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> that was from keeping his molars together, widening the maxilla doesn’t affect the gonial in the slightest, it might widen the bigonian distance but that is the very most






What can affect gonial angle ?


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> What can affect gonial angle ?


how close your jaws are to each other, it will grow in the direction of resting posture, if your molars are together it will be a low angle, and if you mouth breathe (making the distance the maximum the jaws can get away from each other) it will result in a dogshit very high gonial, while having your teeth apart while not mouthbreathing will give you something in the middle of the spectrum


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> how close your jaws are to each other, it will grow in the direction of resting posture, if your molars are together it will be a low angle, and if you mouth breathe (making the distance the maximum the jaws can get away from each other) it will result in a dogshit very high gonial, while having your teeth apart while not mouthbreathing will give you something in the middle of the spectrum






So tounge posture is important in changing the gonial angle ?


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> So tounge posture is important in changing the gonial angle ?


no tongue posture has minimal effect on gonial it’s just teeth positioning mainly 

I talked about it more in depth here https://looksmax.org/threads/breaking-theory-on-facial-development.61570/


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> no tongue posture has minimal effect on gonial it’s just teeth positioning mainly
> 
> I talked about it more in depth here https://looksmax.org/threads/breaking-theory-on-facial-development.61570/





Sorry man i'm to low iq i will read this though so theeth positioning is key to gonial angle and you need to do this whilst using mse right ?


retard said:


> no tongue posture has minimal effect on gonial it’s just teeth positioning mainly
> 
> I talked about it more in depth here https://looksmax.org/threads/breaking-theory-on-facial-development.61570/





Sorry man i'm to low iq i will read this though so theeth positioning is key to gonial angle and you need to do this whilst using mse right ?


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> Sorry man i'm to low iq i will read this though so theeth positioning is key to gonial angle and you need to do this whilst using mse right ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol it’s good, in nutshell if your molars touch your gonial will be closer to 90-115
If your molars aren’t touching but you aren’t mouth breathing either it will be around 115-130
And if you mouth breathe your molars are super far apart and your gonial will be 130+


yes whatever you do- MSE or not you should have your molars together or atleast close together, I’m pretty sure the ramus/gonial changes relatively fast compared to other facial changes if you adapt the correct habits


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> lol it’s good, in nutshell if your molars touch your gonial will be closer to 90-115
> If your molars aren’t touching but you aren’t mouth breathing either it will be around 115-130
> And if you mouth breathe your molars are super far apart and your gonial will be 130+





I thought 130 was the most desired angle


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> I thought 130 was the most desired angle


no 130 will give you a curved and unangular jawline, 90-100 will be extremely square and angular, I overdid those ranking though, realistically no one has a 90 degree gonial and even 95 is probably unheard of, 100-115 will be teeth together 115-130 will be not mouth breathing but teeth aren’t together, and 130+ will be mouth breathing and your jaw will lack any angularity





Teeth together Teeth not together but not mouth breathing, and mouth breathing, genetics don’t play a role


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> no 130 will give you a curved and unangular jawline, 90-100 will be extremely square and angular, I overdid those ranking though, realistically no one has a 90 degree gonial and even 95 is probably unheard of, 100-115 will be teeth together 115-130 will be not mouth breathing but teeth aren’t together, and 130+ will be mouth breathing and your jaw will lack any angularity
> View attachment 202387
> 
> Teeth together Teeth not together but not mouth breathing, and mouth breathing, genetics don’t play a role





According to this study it was 130 ?


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> According to this study it was 130 ?


no that’s just from my observations, you can go measure recessed chin profiles (mouth breathers) and measure their gonial and it will come out around 130


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> no that’s just from my observations, you can go measure recessed chin profiles (mouth breathers) and measure their gonial and it will come out around 130




Does it count for head tilt ?


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## retard (Dec 23, 2019)

reptiles said:


> Does it count for head tilt ?


ya cause if u rotate ur head, both your ramus and jaw body will be rotated too, keeping the angle always consistent disregarding head tilt


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## reptiles (Dec 23, 2019)

retard said:


> ya cause if u rotate ur head, both your ramus and jaw body will be rotated too, keeping the angle always consistent disregarding head tilt







Ahhhh right fair enough


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## FatJattMofo (Dec 25, 2019)

retard said:


> I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
> Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
> ipd increased by 1.5mm
> nasal base increased by 4.9mm
> ...


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## Deleted member 3593 (Dec 25, 2019)

how does one get his hands on this no one near me even does the procedure jfl


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## EthnicelAscension (Dec 25, 2019)

Too$hort said:


> how does one get his hands on this no one near me even does the procedure jfl


Yea honestly this, MSE is so rare even in the US chances are 4 out of 5 orthodontists don't even know about it, for people outside the US chances are no one knows about MSE.


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## FatJattMofo (Dec 25, 2019)

EthnicelAscension said:


> Yea honestly this, MSE is so rare even in the US chances are 4 out of 5 orthodontists don't even know about it, for people outside the US chances are no one knows about MSE.


id legit go to the U.S and live in a relatives house for this shit . anything for ascension


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## Deleted member 3593 (Dec 25, 2019)

EthnicelAscension said:


> Yea honestly this, MSE is so rare even in the US chances are 4 out of 5 orthodontists don't even know about it, for people outside the US chances are no one knows about MSE.



Is it even a legitimate, practiced procedure? I'm not even kidding no orthodontists around my area have any info on this ( I live in the states). Makes me think it was created in some PUA/Lookism members garage.


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## EthnicelAscension (Dec 25, 2019)

Too$hort said:


> Is it even a legitimate, practiced procedure? I'm not even kidding no orthodontists around my area have any info on this ( I live in the states). Makes me think it was created in some PUA/Lookism members garage.


I mean what makes MSE so special, compared to a typical palate expander anyways?


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## FatJattMofo (Dec 25, 2019)

EthnicelAscension said:


> I mean what makes MSE so special, compared to a typical palate expander anyways?


it widens the maxilla


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## EthnicelAscension (Dec 25, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> it widens the maxilla


So a palate expander doesn't widen the maxilla but just the palate?


EthnicelAscension said:


> So a palate expander doesn't widen the maxilla but just the palate?


Therefore not having as drastic changes across the entire face as MSE would?


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## Deleted member 3593 (Dec 25, 2019)

Miniscrew-Assisted Rapid Palatal Expansion (MARPE), Smile Design & Beyond, Los Angeles


Dr. Audrey Yoon of Smile Design & Beyond in Los Angeles specializes in children and adult orthodontics.




www.draudreyyoon.com





Get ur bags ready boyos were going to California





huh interesting


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## kota (Dec 26, 2019)

retard said:


> I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
> Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
> ipd increased by 1.5mm
> nasal base increased by 4.9mm
> ...


Which pics did you use as reference? I compared the frontal before and afters from his blog: https://jawhacks.com/blog/mse-86-days-84-turns-expansion-complete
To me it looks like the nasal base widened the most, about twice as much as the mouth width. IPD change pretty much undetectable to me.

On the other hand, here is the result of MSE + facemask on a 16 yo girl and there looks to be a huge change in IPD, maybe even moreso than nose and mouth width:






@Golden Glass


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## CopingCel (Dec 26, 2019)

needsolution said:


> SO FINALLY TRUTH
> IPD INCREASED, WE ARE SAVED



Fuck no, I need this without IPD increase, mine is already to high.


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## retard (Dec 26, 2019)

kota said:


> Which pics did you use as reference? I compared the frontal before and afters from his blog: https://jawhacks.com/blog/mse-86-days-84-turns-expansion-complete
> To me it looks like the nasal base widened the most, about twice as much as the mouth width. IPD change pretty much undetectable to me.
> 
> On the other hand, here is the result of MSE + facemask on a 16 yo girl and there looks to be a huge change in IPD, maybe even moreso than nose and mouth width:
> ...


I used those pics, 1.5 mm isn’t very noticeable and I used the line of the mouth for lip width, not just til the pink part ended, which that also expanded too obv


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## Deleted member 3593 (Dec 26, 2019)

I found an orthodonitist near me who does palate expanders. I don't think they would do it for cosmetic reasons plus they say it's only or 15 year olds. That being said 3-4k out of pocket for that much of a difference seems worth it to me imo, and a permanent benefit. I've never needed braces medically but my bottom row is has some crooked teeth.


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## Golden Glass (Dec 26, 2019)

kota said:


> Which pics did you use as reference? I compared the frontal before and afters from his blog: https://jawhacks.com/blog/mse-86-days-84-turns-expansion-complete
> To me it looks like the nasal base widened the most, about twice as much as the mouth width. IPD change pretty much undetectable to me.
> 
> On the other hand, here is the result of MSE + facemask on a 16 yo girl and there looks to be a huge change in IPD, maybe even moreso than nose and mouth width:
> ...



Yeah I mentioned in @retard ‘s MSE width increase thread that if Ronald gained 1.5 mm, then it wasn’t even noticeable, however, considering his age, this was potentially liffuel for you are younger and want to increase IPD.

@CopingCel if you’re past the age of maybe 22, then you probably don’t have to worry about noticeable IPD gain. If not, then wait for MSE until you are if you still want all the other benefits but no or minimal IPD increase


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## curryslayerordeath (Dec 26, 2019)

Will this be a problem at 18 years old? I already have wide set eyes but still a narrow palate and recessed lower third. MSE+FM treatment would help a lot but if it widens my IPD like that girl's, I'd look like a fish.


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## Darkstrand (Jan 12, 2020)

retard said:


> I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
> Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
> ipd increased by 1.5mm
> nasal base increased by 4.9mm
> ...


Can you also check PFL?


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## spark (Jan 12, 2020)

kota said:


> Which pics did you use as reference? I compared the frontal before and afters from his blog: https://jawhacks.com/blog/mse-86-days-84-turns-expansion-complete
> To me it looks like the nasal base widened the most, about twice as much as the mouth width. IPD change pretty much undetectable to me.
> 
> On the other hand, here is the result of MSE + facemask on a 16 yo girl and there looks to be a huge change in IPD, maybe even moreso than nose and mouth width:
> ...


still looks shit


retard said:


> I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
> Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
> ipd increased by 1.5mm
> nasal base increased by 4.9mm
> ...


Did you count it yourself? I was looking at his face yesterday and didn't notice much:




His FWHR seems exactly the same to me.


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## TheEndHasNoEnd (Apr 23, 2020)

Darkstrand said:


> Can you also check PFL?


second this


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## Lorsss (Apr 23, 2020)

retard said:


> I just used the lookism measuring technique of using the pupils as a benchmark since they are similar in all males at 11.77 mms across.
> Here are Ead's results of after agga before mse and after mse results
> ipd increased by 1.5mm
> nasal base increased by 4.9mm
> ...



if you use pupils as benchmarks (fixed unit of measurement), HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOTICE AN INCREASE OF INTERPUPILLARY DISTANCE?


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## GetThatBread (Apr 23, 2020)

spark said:


> still looks shit
> 
> Did you count it yourself? I was looking at his face yesterday and didn't notice much:
> 
> ...


His under eyelid got tighter


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## retard (Apr 23, 2020)

Lorsss said:


> if you use pupils as benchmarks (fixed unit of measurement), HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOTICE AN INCREASE OF INTERPUPILLARY DISTANCE?


You measure the pixels in paint then divide it by the pixels of the iris width since it’s a constant and will account for changes in distance/distortion


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