# How male pattern balding actually works



## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.


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## Framletgod (Jul 28, 2019)

tldr`?


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## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

Framletgod said:


> tldr`?


TLDR: You're either fucked or not. Finasteride won't save your sorry ass from eventually going bald. There's only one way you can be saved.


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

x30001 said:


> TLDR: You're either fucked or not. Finasteride won't save your sorry ass from eventually going bald. There's only one way you can be saved.


it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees. 

native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.


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## De_Looksmaxing (Jul 28, 2019)

Better go with hair transplant than fin


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## Deleted member 1106 (Jul 28, 2019)

Finasteride alone can slow down the balding process for decades which is enough for most people here, I dont give a shit about having a good hairline in my late 30's - early 40's


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## Deleted member 1089 (Jul 28, 2019)

This shit is too complicated for me


chesscel said:


> Finasteride alone can slow down the balding process for decades which is enough for most people here, I dont give a shit about having a good hairline in my late 30's - early 40's



Same bro, I just want hair from 18-30.


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## Deleted member 1560 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.
> 
> native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.


You forgot the asians


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

Yoyome99 said:


> You forgot the asians


they still have it but not as bad as white guys.


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## FatJattMofo (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.
> 
> native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.


I know a couple of old men in my family don't haven't receded


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## Deleted member 1560 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> they still have it but not as bad as white guys.


Over for balding men


FatJattMofo said:


> I know a couple of old men in my family don't haven't receded


Exactly even in my fam too


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> I know a couple of old men in my family don't haven't receded


Still doesn't mean they don't have male pattern baldness. If they blasted tren for years they'd go bald.

If someone truly doesn't have male pattern baldness their hair would be completely unaffected by all androgens. And that just doesn't exist outside of north americans.


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## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.
> 
> native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.


Thinning definitely happens in pretty much all males as a function of aging. My Dad 53 and Grandad 89 have thinned hair but not norwooded. It's because Frizzled agonism by Wnt causes an overactive Anagen stage, and leaving Frizzled inactive won't cause the over active Anagen stage relative to everyone's Catagen phase. Those who don't have a stimulated Anagen phase brought on by Wnt pathway activation will have a proportionately greater amount of activity in the Catagen phase, by default. DHT is the main reason for an aggressive Catagen phase, and that's why lowering DHT actually does work at slowing down hairloss and even preventing for a substantial period of time, and even regrowth (ie: when you first start Dutasteride you can experience some actual regrowth). It's to do with the ratio of activity between the Anagen and Catagen phases in the hair cycle. And without Wnt signalling, you won't have an overactive Anagen phase. The proportion of activity in each phase relative to each other is why some people Norwood faster than others, and some slower than others. So with roids, elevated DHT and androgens will increase activity in the Catagen phase. Your Anagen phase may be more active (if your body can agonise Frizzled with Wnt), or it may be less active, (If you've MBP basically). The activity levels within each phase of the cycle relative to each other, over time is what causes quick norwooding, slow norwooding, or hair restoration. Complete hair restoration into old age is almost impossible currently because no one can have a totally inactive Catagen phase. However, an inactive Frizzled receptor is what causes Nordwooding and the MBP style receeding. If you see old people with thinned hair without a conventional Norwood pattern, they have Wnt signalling (ie: No predisposition to MPB), but have a proportionately more active Catagen phase than Anagen phase in their hair cycles due to age related reasons. The Wnt Signalling still keeps the Anagen phase stimulated and growth/proliferation still occurs, just not at the speed of the rate of destruction in their Catagen phases due to reasons related to aging completely independent of Wnt signalling.


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

x30001 said:


> Thinning definitely happens in pretty much all males as a function of aging. My Dad 53 and Grandad 89 have thinned hair but not norwooded. It's because Frizzled agonism by Wnt causes an overactive Anagen stage, and leaving Frizzled inactive won't cause the over active Anagen stage relative to everyone's Catagen phase. Those who don't have a stimulated Anagen phase brought on by Wnt pathway activation will have a proportionately greater amount of activity in the Catagen phase, by default. DHT is the main reason for an aggressive Catagen phase, and that's why lowering DHT actually does work at slowing down hairloss and even preventing for a substantial period of time, and even regrowth (ie: when you first start Dutasteride you can experience some actual regrowth). It's to do with the ratio of activity between the Anagen and Catagen phases in the hair cycle. And without Wnt signalling, you won't have an overactive Anagen phase. The proportion of activity in each phase relative to each other is why some people Norwood faster than others, and some slower than others. So with roids, elevated DHT and androgens will increase activity in the Catagen phase. Your Anagen phase may be more active (if your body can agonise Frizzled with Wnt), or it may be less active, (If you've MBP basically). The activity levels within each phase of the cycle relative to each other, over time is what causes quick norwooding, slow norwooding, or hair restoration. Complete hair restoration into old age is almost impossible currently because no one can have a totally inactive Catagen phase. However, an inactive Frizzled receptor is what causes Nordwooding and the MBP style receeding. If you see old people with thinned hair without a conventional Norwood pattern, they have Wnt signalling (ie: No predisposition to MPB), but have a proportionately more active Catagen phase than Anagen phase in their hair cycles due to age related reasons. The Wnt Signalling still keeps the Anagen phase stimulated and growth/proliferation still occurs, just not at the speed of the rate of destruction in their Catagen phases due to reasons related to aging completely independent of Wnt signalling.


Some white guys may be not sensitive enough to androgens to make it to old age without receding. But ZERO white guys are able to take heavy doses of androgens for years without protection like fin/ru and not recede. Thus every single white guy can have male pattern baldness caused by androgen.

There is no such thing as a white person with no mpb. Some are just very resistant to the point where they won't really go bald on natty androgens. Enough tren and masteron will make any white guy receed given enough time.


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## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> Enough tren and masteron will make any white guy receed given enough time.


Yeah you're right. Because your Catagen phases will be out of control relative to your Anagen phases even if you're not predisposed to MPB. Wnt Signalling (not being predisposed to MPB) gives you a huge huge chance of keeping your hair, and you will keep it, but if you blast Tren, Masteron, Winstrol etc and try to start losing your hair, you will, even if not predisposed. I don't know why anyone would want to blast roids for years/decades though.


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

x30001 said:


> Yeah you're right. Because your Catagen phases will be out of control relative to your Anagen phases even if you're not predisposed to MPB. Wnt Signalling (not being predisposed to MPB) gives you a huge huge chance of keeping your hair, and you will keep it, but if you blast Tren, Masteron, Winstrol etc and try to start losing your hair, you will, even if not predisposed. I don't know why anyone would want to blast roids for years/decades though.


I want to use moderate doses for test for decades. And maybe other mild thinks like primo. Not the other stuff.


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## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

x30001 said:


> So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.



Okay basically a TLDR because @jefferson makes some good points.

MPB predisposition = Underactive Anagen Phase
Androgenic Alopecia = Brought on by an overactive Catagen Phase (which is proportionately more destructive than your Anagen phases are constructive, at any given moment)

Androgenic Alopecia speeds up Norwooding like crazy due to high Androgens from roid use. 

Roid user with MPB predisposition and self induced overactive Catagen phase(s) = High Catagen:Anagen activity ratio. Means you are turbo fucked! Lets say the ratio for this guy is like 14.5:1

Roid user without MPB predisposition (genetically predisposed to a more active Anagen phase) and self induced overactive Catagen phase(s) = High Catagen:Anagen activity ratio, but less high than the MBP prone male since he genetically has more activity in his Anagen phases. So essentially he has more "genetic cushioning". Lets say his Catagen:Anagen activity ratio is 5.3:1.

Once someone stops steroids and stops raping their hair during their Catagen phases, the proliferation during their Anagen phase is still at a nice level (as it always has been), that will never change. He will be able to keep a less destructive C:A ratio for the rest of his life. 

Once someone stops steroids and stops raping their hair during their Catagen phases AND is predisposed to MPB, the proliferation during their Anagen phase is still genetically fucked (as it always has been), that will never change. He will have a fucking devastating C:A ratio due to the fact that he was predisposed to have a more underactive Anagen phase (for his whole life) than non MPB predisposed men. His C:A ratio was always due to be bleak because his body can't agonise "Frizzled" with Wnt. However, since he elevated his Catagen phase activity through increased destruction from AAS, that sped up his balding process.


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## xForgotMyName (Jul 28, 2019)

mfw reading this thread while already buzzpilled


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## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> I want to use moderate doses for test for decades. And maybe other mild thinks like primo. Not the other stuff.


Yeah man I thought of taking primo before since the Androgenic:Anabolic ratios really hold true when it comes to hairloss. Weirdly they don't necessarily hold true for muscle building. Like Halotestin with 800:1700 Androgenic/Anabolic, it'll fucking raaape your hair. Tren at 500 is really high and even though Primo is a DHT derivative, it's not a direct DHT compound and has a low level of Androgenicity. 

I understand it's not fucking easy at all to just get off roids. You may be lucky and not be predisposed to MBP. I realised recently that purposely elevating activity in your Catagen phase is like purposely putting yourself in debt. There's no way to tell if anyone is predisposed to MPB or not. But it's cool to see you want to do what you can to make things better and I hope sm04554 comes out next year and won't cost millions of $ per year for "treatment". But idk. It's really not over if you're not predisposed and if you are predisposed well then, I guess it never began . Best course of action is to get on Fin/Dut and stay on TRT doses for now. But it's best that you don't take steroids for years to come and if there is a way to get off of them, then definitely do so! You're still 20, the longer you're on TRT, the harder it'll be to come off. MPMD really regrets having to stay on TRT for life and his #1 priority is his hair and longevity. I inadvertently took a "Test Booster" in my teens which was probably sdrol or msten or some prohormone/designer roid. The negative effects like acne, gyno etc were a nightmare to deal with but luckily I'm fine now. I really think Clomid/Nolva could get you off the roids now. Just need to be straight up with the doctors and if they won't give you them, then hopefully some professional can recommend an aggressive PCT that'll get your endocrine system running again.

BTW: Red light therapy on the balls actually upregulates the function of the Leydig Cells and can maybe kick start your LH/FSH. It's a shot in the dark but could definitely work.


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

x30001 said:


> Yeah man I thought of taking primo before since the Androgenic:Anabolic ratios really hold true when it comes to hairloss. Weirdly they don't necessarily hold true for muscle building. Like Halotestin with 800:1700 Androgenic/Anabolic, it'll fucking raaape your hair. Tren at 500 is really high and even though Primo is a DHT derivative, it's not a direct DHT compound and has a low level of Androgenicity.
> 
> I understand it's not fucking easy at all to just get off roids. You may be lucky and not be predisposed to MBP. I realised recently that purposely elevating activity in your Catagen phase is like purposely putting yourself in debt. There's no way to tell if anyone is predisposed to MPB or not. But it's cool to see you want to do what you can to make things better and I hope sm04554 comes out next year and won't cost millions of $ per year for "treatment". But idk. It's really not over if you're not predisposed and if you are predisposed well then, I guess it never began . Best course of action is to get on Fin/Dut and stay on TRT doses for now. But it's best that you don't take steroids for years to come and if there is a way to get off of them, then definitely do so! You're still 20, the longer you're on TRT, the harder it'll be to come off. MPMD really regrets having to stay on TRT for life and his #1 priority is his hair and longevity. I inadvertently took a "Test Booster" in my teens which was probably sdrol or msten or some prohormone/designer roid. The negative effects like acne, gyno etc were a nightmare to deal with but luckily I'm fine now. I really think Clomid/Nolva could get you off the roids now. Just need to be straight up with the doctors and if they won't give you them, then hopefully some professional can recommend an aggressive PCT that'll get your endocrine system running again.
> 
> BTW: Red light therapy on the balls actually upregulates the function of the Leydig Cells and can maybe kick start your LH/FSH. It's a shot in the dark but could definitely work.


No those ratios don't hold true for hairloss. Those ratios mean almost nothing in terms of real world results, don't even bother with them.

winstrols androgenic rating: 20
masterons androgenic rating:24

yet those are two of the worst steroids know to man when it comes to hairloss...

and with my natural testosterone I had all the classic low T symptoms. It would be stupid of me to try and come off.


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## Deleted member 1849 (Jul 28, 2019)

I'm so lucky. My dad has always had hair. he's 50 now. its receding. but he's never gonna go bald. lifefuel


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## x30001 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> No those ratios don't hold true for hairloss. Those ratios mean almost nothing in terms of real world results, don't even bother with them.
> 
> winstrols androgenic rating: 20
> masterons androgenic rating:24
> ...


Ah Fair enough but aren't they direct DHT compounds? Primo is a DHT derivative. I can understand why direct DHT roids are very bad for hair despite having a low Androgen rating. DHT is the #1 aggressor no doubt. But I think Primo is relatively safe for hairloss since it's a synthetic androstane and just a DHT derivative. Yeah Masteron and Winstrol are fucked xD


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 28, 2019)

just lol if you dont marry a native indian woman tbh
brb booking flight to bolivia
good fatherhood starts with picking the right mother


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

x30001 said:


> Ah Fair enough but aren't they direct DHT compounds? Primo is a DHT derivative. I can understand why direct DHT roids are very bad for hair despite having a low Androgen rating. DHT is the #1 aggressor no doubt. But I think Primo is relatively safe for hairloss since it's a synthetic androstane and just a DHT derivative. Yeah Masteron and Winstrol are fucked xD


Primo and anavar are dht derivatives but very hair safe as far as steroids go. So yeah it doesn't really have to do with the ratios or what they are derived from. I don't know how you'd even measure it.

I actually have a bunch of winstrol right now and part of me want to use it to get shredded but then I look at my hair and go naahhhh.


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## Wannabe6ft2 (Jul 28, 2019)

jefferson said:


> Still doesn't mean they don't have male pattern baldness. If they blasted tren for years they'd go bald.
> 
> If someone truly doesn't have male pattern baldness their hair would be completely unaffected by all androgens. And that just doesn't exist outside of north americans.


Surely if a Native American blasted tren he’d still experience some balding? That’s insane if not.


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## jefferson (Jul 28, 2019)

Wannabe6ft2 said:


> Surely if a Native American blasted tren he’d still experience some balding? That’s insane if not.


apparently not

pureblooded north americans though, if they are mixed race they probably inherited the mpb genes.


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## Wannabe6ft2 (Jul 28, 2019)

So could things like grape seed supplements help with balding as I’m pretty sure there was a study that said it doubles the Anagen phase of hair?
Also thoughts on breezula as a possible treatments @x30001 ?


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## jackthenerd (Jul 28, 2019)

chesscel said:


> Finasteride alone can slow down the balding process for decades which is enough for most people here, I dont give a shit about having a good hairline in my late 30's - early 40's



I do. I'm not peaking until my late 30's, just being honest.


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## I'mme (Jul 28, 2019)

Don't Forget to mew said:


> I'm so lucky. My dad has always had hair. he's 50 now. its receding. but he's never gonna go bald. lifefuel


My dad is also more than 45 and has full head of hair and is NW0, and I started AGA when I was 14. Suicidefuel 
(on a serious note, chill you're unlikely to get hair Loss)
@x30001 why does Spironolactone works so well for MPB/AGA? I mean when combined w Fin/Dut, it (almost) reversed hair loss in many cases.


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## KrissKross (Jul 29, 2019)

Fap maxxing will make you lose hair like a mother fucker, I don’t have evidence for it but I’m 90% sure it does.


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## Wannabe6ft2 (Jul 29, 2019)

KrissKross said:


> Fap maxxing will make you lose hair like a mother fucker, I don’t have evidence for it but I’m 90% sure it does.


Do you have studies at least. Anything at all?


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## KrissKross (Jul 29, 2019)

Wannabe6ft2 said:


> Do you have studies at least. Anything at all?


No sorry I don't. Just anecdotal.
Not advocating for NoFap, more like LowFap.


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## CopingCel (Jul 29, 2019)

x30001 said:


> Okay basically a TLDR because @jefferson makes some good points.
> 
> MPB predisposition = Underactive Anagen Phase
> Androgenic Alopecia = Brought on by an overactive Catagen Phase (which is proportionately more destructive than your Anagen phases are constructive, at any given moment)
> ...



What if you take finasteride while being on roids?


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## DoctorLooksmax (Jul 29, 2019)

CopingCel said:


> What if you take finasteride while being on roids?


Fins steroids prevents conversion of test to DHT so it is very effective a preventing hair loss from testosterone. However it will do nothing to stop tren, mast etc destroying your hair


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## I'mme (Jul 29, 2019)

KrissKross said:


> Fap maxxing will make you lose hair like a mother fucker, I don’t have evidence for it but I’m 90% sure it does.


It increases prolactin which has been found to cause HL / aggravate AA, so yes.


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## Deleted member 1106 (Jul 29, 2019)

I'mme said:


> It increases prolactin which has been found to cause HL / aggravate AA, so yes.


So nofap would be legit in that regard then? Or just min fap?


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## I'mme (Jul 29, 2019)

chesscel said:


> So nofap would be legit in that regard then? Or just min fap?


Nofap can lead to treacherous consequences more so when you are on Finasteride.


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## Deleted member 1849 (Jul 29, 2019)

s


I'mme said:


> My dad is also more than 45 and has full head of hair and is NW0, and I started AGA when I was 14. Suicidefuel
> (on a serious note, chill you're unlikely to get hair Loss)
> @x30001 why does Spironolactone works so well for MPB/AGA? I mean when combined w Fin/Dut, it (almost) reversed hair loss in many cases.


oof. find some way to reverse those effects!


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## Deleted member 1106 (Jul 29, 2019)

I'mme said:


> Nofap can lead to treacherous consequences more so when you are on Finasteride.


I assume thats to do with the "testosterone increase" once you pass the 1 week mark.
I read somewhere that testosterone peaks at the one week and then drops agaij to relatively normal levels (the increase of like 20% still presists though)


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## I'mme (Jul 29, 2019)

chesscel said:


> I assume thats to do with the "testosterone increase" once you pass the 1 week mark.
> I read somewhere that testosterone peaks at the one week and then drops agaij to relatively normal levels (the increase of like 20% still presists though)


Yes, that's why fin aggravates hair loss in some individuals. 

But what I was trying to say is these drugs like Finasteride, Spirono, Dut may cause harm to penis or/and its activities. So it's better that the person on these drugs keep using it (penis).


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## Deleted member 1849 (Jul 29, 2019)

Don't Forget to mew said:


> s
> 
> oof. find some way to reverse those effects!


My hair is super think and bushy. I probably won"t ever go bald lol


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## Mr_Norwood (Jul 29, 2019)

Why are us Brits more bald than other races? I have noticed btw  

Maybe it's to do with we eat the most unhealthiest carb-loaded diets in Europe? Or perhaps its the mineral content of our water


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## CarlSagan96 (Jul 29, 2019)

x30001 said:


> So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.




What is your opinion on heightmaxxing?


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## x30001 (Aug 5, 2019)

On norwood reaper's list





Not on norwood reaper's list


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## Darth Cialis (Aug 5, 2019)

I know a song that makes your hair regrow but I won't tell anyone.


De_Looksmaxing said:


> Better go with hair transplant than fin


I thought as a hair transplant patient you needed fin.


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## im_still_here (Aug 5, 2019)

x30001 said:


> So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.





if its legit i have no problems to fly into some north korean underground labatory and get it done for little money


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## 6ft4 (Aug 5, 2019)

x30001 said:


> I really think Clomid/Nolva could get you off the roids now. Just need to be straight up with the doctors and if they won't give you them, then hopefully some professional can recommend an aggressive PCT that'll get your endocrine system running again.



I came off roids in June with no PCT and feel fine, my testicles are still a bit shrunken tho, I'm putting off getting my T levels checked in case they're close to 0

Is it low IQ to not do a PCT?

Part of my hairline receded back in November when I was running tren so I switched to just 200mg test and my hairline remained the same until June, then once I came off the hair I had lost started growing back and I'm now NW1 again

I used to think that it's optimal to run at least 200mg test year round and throw in an oral or another injectable here and there but now I actually think cycling is optimal since any level of exogenous hormones can prevent your body being in it's state of homeostasis hence leading to side effects.


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## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

Samumed's Compound Structure | Hair Loss Cure 2020


I have covered Samumed and its SM04554 compound to treat hair loss dozens of times in the past. Phase 3 Trials ending in 2020. Please use the categories menu



www.hairlosscure2020.com





I'm not sure if I understood this correctly, if they released the compound structure doesnt it mean other companies would be able to recreate this mollecule?

I saw offers on alibaba such as this one:






New-Anti-hair-loss-treatment-CAS


New-Anti-hair-loss-treatment-CAS



www.alibaba.com




I wish I could understand the details
2H-Indol-2-one, 6-broMo-3-[(3E)-1,3-dihydro-3-(hydroxyiMino)-2H-indol-2-ylidene]-1,3-dihydro-, (3Z)-;6BIO;6-bromoindirubin-3-oxime;GSK3 Inhibitor IX1;BIO(GSK-3 Inhibitor IX;BIO (SM04554)
@x30001 tagging for your opinion


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## Dogs (Oct 9, 2019)

Why would they not release it to the public on a massive scale, can they not patent it is that why? Every single person on fin would take this, + people that aren't on fin but considering, + even way more people. Doesn't make sense.


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## LordNorwood (Oct 9, 2019)

If this shit actually works as advertised I will sell my organs to buy it ngl


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## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> If this shit actually works as advertised I will sell my organs to buy it ngl


what is it? i’m too low iq to understand all this. what do i buy tbh lol 

@Dogs 
@x30001


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## Mayorga (Oct 9, 2019)

Dogs said:


> they not patent it



It has to go through approval from regulatory agencies. If it works like intended, waiting for another year won't be a problem since it will reverse hair loss.


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## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/4e/77/c1/d65cb7c1a87d2f/US20180333400A1.pdf thats their patent with molecular structure


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## Dogs (Oct 9, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> what is it? i’m too low iq to understand all this. what do i buy tbh lol
> 
> @Dogs
> @x30001


Tbh didn't read lmao not gonna worry about it until it comes out, it's not out yet and tbh doubt it actually reverses hairloss to nw0 but probably better than dht nukes


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## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

> The present application discloses a compound which is
> 
> which activates Wnt / ß - catenin signaling and thus treats or prevents diseases related to signal transduction , such as osteoporosis and osteoarthropathy ; osteogenesis imperfecta , bone defects , bone fractures , periodontal disease , otosclero sis , wound healing , craniofacial defects , oncolytic bone disease , traumatic brain injuries related to the differentiation and development of the central nervous system , comprising Parkinson ' s disease , strokes , ischemic cerebral disease , epi lepsy , Alzheimer ' s disease , depression , bipolar disorder , schizophrenia ; eye diseases such as age related macular degeneration , diabetic macular edema or retinitis pigmen tosa and diseases related to differentiation and growth of stem cell , *comprising hair loss* , hematopoiesis related dis eases and tissue regeneration related diseases .


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## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

Dogs said:


> Tbh didn't read lmao not gonna worry about it until it comes out, it's not out yet and tbh doubt it actually reverses hairloss to nw0 but probably better than dht nukes


I just want to keep my hairline as it is now. I never want to worry about my hair follicles when I have bones to worry about.


----------



## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

it was published on november 2018, would other companies be able to recreate this based on this information? if so then that chinese thing might be legit?


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

Ekeoma_The_BBC said:


> it was published on november 2018, would other companies be able to recreate this based on this information? if so then that chinese thing might be legit?


tell me more


----------



## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> tell me more


basically they released the compound that is responsible for sm04554, so in theory some chinese oversea company should be able to recreate the mollecule and sell it
I found this





New-Anti-hair-loss-treatment-CAS


New-Anti-hair-loss-treatment-CAS



www.alibaba.com





if this thing is legit then we won't need to wait until sm04554 officially comes to the market, we can just buy this and make our own sollution


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

Ekeoma_The_BBC said:


> basically they released the compound that is responsible for sm04554, so in theory some chinese oversea company should be able to recreate the mollecule and sell it
> I found this
> 
> 
> ...


@x30001; you can make ur own solution then sell it to us for $100. you could make thousands srs.


----------



## Dogs (Oct 9, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> I just want to keep my hairline as it is now. I never want to worry about my hair follicles when I have bones to worry about.


Fin is perfect for that if you're experiencing recession/density issues, just watch your hairline for now


----------



## Deleted member 3045 (Oct 9, 2019)

This is making me so fucking pissed off because it's fucking HAIR. It should have a simple solution already discovered but no. I have mature hairline ever since fucking high-school and it's horrible to think if you will go bald and all that crap.


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

Dogs said:


> Fin is perfect for that if you're experiencing recession/density issues, just watch your hairline for now


What are the sides? Don’t downplay them either. I need srs answers.


----------



## Dino Hamciaren (Oct 9, 2019)

Yoyome99 said:


> You forgot the asians


Both are Mongoloids.


----------



## Gebirgscel (Oct 9, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> what is it? i’m too low iq to understand all this. what do i buy tbh lol
> 
> @Dogs
> @x30001





PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> tell me more


Samumed got millions of dollars for a new chemical

name: SM04554

one of the pros: treats androgenic alopecia


Why is it better than fin/dut?

fin dut and any other 5AR inhibitor works by inhibiting DHT to slow down alopecia


I dont know SM04554 well but I think there is a pathway where they just induce anagen phase or idk. It is an alternative approach and I think you can see it inofficially in mid 2020 at labs like TheKane.

Will be expensive as sin I guess


----------



## Deleted member 2486 (Oct 9, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> What are the sides? Don’t downplay them either. I need srs answers.


he hasnt been taking long enough to know


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

Gebirgscel said:


> Samumed got millions of dollars for a new chemical
> 
> name: SM04554
> 
> ...


2020’s?! This is urgent. How much you think? Like 10k for a while treatment?


----------



## Gebirgscel (Oct 9, 2019)

Ekeoma_The_BBC said:


> it was published on november 2018, would other companies be able to recreate this based on this information? if so then that chinese thing might be legit?


No

wait several months untill Samumed finishes their extended phase


PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> 2020’s?! This is urgent. How much you think? Like 10k for a while treatment?


I do not remember how it is applied
can not guess cost either

I do not know if it gets injected, ingested or put on topically


They got 500 million$ of funding


not a real miracle imo but better alternative to 5ari like fin especially for us and roidcels


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## GenericChad1444 (Oct 9, 2019)

I will never be able to afford this shit anyway


----------



## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

Gebirgscel said:


> No
> 
> wait several months untill Samumed finishes their extended phase
> 
> ...


its a topical treatment, why would we see it on kane after phase 3 trail ends? they already released the mollecule publically in 2018, there is also american company selling it 





SM04554 Supplier | CAS 1360540-81-3 | Wnt pathway activator | AOBIOUS


View and buy high purity SM04554 from AOBIOUS, the leading supplier of life science reagents




aobious.com


----------



## GenericChad1444 (Oct 9, 2019)

Dogs said:


> Fin is perfect for that if you're experiencing recession/density issues, just watch your hairline for now


fin is not very good for hairline though, once most people recede they rarely get it back


----------



## Dogs (Oct 9, 2019)

Don't Forget to mew said:


> I'm so lucky. My dad has always had hair. he's 50 now. its receding. but he's never gonna go bald. lifefuel


Doesn't mean you won't go bald, until you're late 20s you just don't know


GenericChad1444 said:


> fin is not very good for hairline though, once most people recede they rarely get it back


Yeah that's why you gotta watch the hairline, fin prevents further loss I doubt anything besides maybe stem cell will lower hairline. Can dermastamping really lower hairline I've heard myths that it can but never seen pics of that.


cocainecowboy said:


> he hasnt been taking long enough to know


I'd say 6 months - 1 year is good to be certain that fin gives you no sides. But since I've experienced no sides besides watery semen that is already better / almost gone I'd say I'm in a pretty good boat so far.


----------



## autistic_tendencies (Oct 9, 2019)

jefferson said:


> it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.
> 
> native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.


Alex trebek still has his nwo hairline and he’s like 80


----------



## Gebirgscel (Oct 9, 2019)

Ekeoma_The_BBC said:


> its a topical treatment, why would we see it on kane after phase 3 trail ends? they already released the mollecule publically in 2018, there is also american company selling it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


for example kane because they sell many hair loss drugs

How would you know if it is legit what they sell ?

The dosis?
It seems potent, it can even treat Alzheimers

there has to be a big downside


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 9, 2019)

Ekeoma_The_BBC said:


> its a topical treatment, why would we see it on kane after phase 3 trail ends? they already released the mollecule publically in 2018, there is also american company selling it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


do u need to mix it with anything or is it ready to go


----------



## Dogs (Oct 9, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> What are the sides? Don’t downplay them either. I need srs answers.


I've done multiple threads on this already, so far nothing significant. My biggest worry is changing facial fat distribution to a worse looking one and gyno. You're young tho so not ideal imo to be taking fin unless necessary. The chance of you getting significant side effects from fin is probably less than 1 percent tbh


----------



## Ekeoma_The_BBC (Oct 9, 2019)

Gebirgscel said:


> for example kane because they sell many hair loss drugs
> 
> How would you know if it is legit what they sell ?
> 
> ...


yeah thats why I'm not sure, both this american and chinese company seem legitimate from what I researched but I have no way to prove this specific product is legit or not, I can only speculate it has to be given the companies are legit and mollecule became public


PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> do u need to mix it with anything or is it ready to go


yes, you need to create your own solution, or you can buy a default carrier from here and then mix it








K&B Solution 50ML - TheKaneShop


K&B solution 50ML, , Exclusive at Anageninc & THeKaneShop



www.thekaneshop.com


----------



## DrTony (Oct 9, 2019)

Can you post the results of the phase II trial? I am curious.

WNT/beta catenin is heavily implicated in cancer it’s an early developmental/embryonic transcriptional program.

I think balding has to do with biological/epigenetic aging. Meaning the 3D chromatin conformation is dynamically remodeled with time which makes certain genes more or less active by impeding or facilitating access to transcription factors or methylation changes. Progressively Silence enough of good/protective genes involved in MPB (like genes regulated by Wnt) or who knows what else and u ll get MPB solely but surely. Doesn’t mean you need to target genes, major downstream effectors will suffice


----------



## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

shaktipat said:


> This is making me so fucking pissed off because it's fucking HAIR. It should have a simple solution already discovered but no. I have mature hairline ever since fucking high-school and it's horrible to think if you will go bald and all that crap.


The reason so little progress has been made on hair loss is partially because the industry doesn't really give a shit about it, its considered relatively unimportant because its cosmetic and scientists are turbobluepilled. 
Reason number 2 is as always, why cure something when you can make more money by "treating" it


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> The reason so little progress has been made on hair loss is partially because the industry doesn't really give a shit about it, its considered relatively unimportant because its cosmetic and scientists are turbobluepilled.
> Reason number 2 is as always, why cure something when you can make more money by "treating" it


It’s easier to milk money from “treatments” than giving out a done and one cure.


----------



## CarlSagan96 (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> What are the sides? Don’t downplay them either. I need srs answers.


In all honesty, you need to try it out for yourself as everyone is different. Some people won't experience any side effects at all while others will get serious depression that won't go away even after they've stopped taking it for 6 months (I can link you an article about this). Most people will either experience nothing or lose libido and get ED though, severe cases like in the article are pretty rare but can happen


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

CarlSagan96 said:


> In all honesty, you need to try it out for yourself as everyone is different. Some people won't experience any side effects at all while others will get serious depression that won't go away even after they've stopped taking it for 6 months (I can link you an article about this). Most people will either experience nothing or lose libido and get ED though, severe cases like in the article are pretty rare but can happen


My neurotransmitters are top tier. I hope I don’t get sides tho... I’m 19, is that too young? I just wanna keep my NW1 as it is until science reveals the “cure” in like mid 2020’s.


----------



## Dogs (Oct 10, 2019)

CarlSagan96 said:


> In all honesty, you need to try it out for yourself as everyone is different. Some people won't experience any side effects at all while others will get serious depression that won't go away even after they've stopped taking it for 6 months (I can link you an article about this). Most people will either experience nothing or lose libido and get ED though, severe cases like in the article are pretty rare but can happen


I'm probably depressed but was since before taking fin, and it hasn't done anything at all in that regard whatsoever


----------



## CarlSagan96 (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> My neurotransmitters are top tier. I hope I don’t get sides tho... I’m 19, is that too young? I just wanna keep my NW1 as it is until science reveals the “cure” in like mid 2020’s.


From what I read it's usually not recommended until you're 21 but I'd still do it at 19 because you're probably finished with puberty


Dogs said:


> I'm probably depressed but was since before taking fin, and it hasn't done anything at all in that regard whatsoever


Most people will experience no sides at all, while some will experience minor sides like ED and low libido (I don't remember the exact percentages but you can look this up). Getting depression is rare but can happen to some people 









My Life Has Been Ruined by an Anti-Baldness Drug


I’ve endured depression, anxiety, headaches, memory loss, insomnia, blurred vision, and impotence since I was 19




elemental.medium.com


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

CarlSagan96 said:


> From what I read it's usually not recommended until you're 21 but I'd still do it at 19 because you're probably finished with puberty


What things can i take to thicken my hair? I take a multi vitamin that has 300mcg biotin and 25mg of zinc. Those help with hair right?


----------



## CarlSagan96 (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> What things can i take to thicken my hair? I take a multi vitamin that has 300mcg biotin and 25mg of zinc. Those help with hair right?


Yes that should help, also you can try nizoral shampoo and massaging your scalp for increased blood flow


----------



## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

autistic_tendencies said:


> Alex trebek still has his nwo hairline and he’s like 80


I said to myself "no way this dude breaks 5'10" look him up and he's 5'8.
Dead serious though has anyone else noticed that if you have a pristine hairline as you age, you're almost never tall or "well developed" in the classical masculine sense? That's not to cope and say these guys look bad, they look great (Tom Cruise also comes to mind as a manlet with a great hairline) but it makes me wonder. Certain traits seem to correlate heavily, I would bet the taller and wider framed you are the more likely you are to get Norwood reaped. Maybe these men have very insensitive androgen receptors?


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> I said to myself "no way this dude breaks 5'10" look him up and he's 5'8.
> Dead serious though has anyone else noticed that if you have a pristine hairline as you age, you're almost never tall or "well developed" in the classical masculine sense? That's not to cope and say these guys look bad, they look great (Tom Cruise also comes to mind as a manlet with a great hairline) but it makes me wonder. Certain traits seem to correlate heavily, I would bet the taller and wider framed you are the more likely you are to get Norwood reaped. Maybe these men have very insensitive androgen receptors?


i’ve noticed that too.


----------



## Dogs (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> I said to myself "no way this dude breaks 5'10" look him up and he's 5'8.
> Dead serious though has anyone else noticed that if you have a pristine hairline as you age, you're almost never tall or "well developed" in the classical masculine sense? That's not to cope and say these guys look bad, they look great (Tom Cruise also comes to mind as a manlet with a great hairline) but it makes me wonder. Certain traits seem to correlate heavily, I would bet the taller and wider framed you are the more likely you are to get Norwood reaped. Maybe these men have very insensitive androgen receptors?


Maybe they don't have as good blood flow to the scalp being that they're tall and the scalp is sort of an extremity, just making that up tbh but yeah


PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> What things can i take to thicken my hair? I take a multi vitamin that has 300mcg biotin and 25mg of zinc. Those help with hair right?


I believe biotin increases e and all it does it speed up hair growth, don't think it will prevent further loss tbh but not sure


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dogs said:


> Maybe they don't have as good blood flow to the scalp being that they're tall and the scalp is sort of an extremity, just making that up tbh but yeah
> 
> I believe biotin increases e and all it does it speed up hair growth, don't think it will prevent further loss tbh but not sure


Some E is alright. i take hella testosterone vitamins (which may not be good for my hair? pls confirm). i take ashwanganda and tong kat


----------



## Dogs (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> Some E is alright. i take hella testosterone vitamins (which may not be good for my hair? pls confirm). i take ashwanganda and tong kat


Test accelerates hairloss but ashawanga only increased test by 10 percent I think, now sure about tong Kat. Not gonna be noticable tbh, I also take ashawanga.


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dogs said:


> Test accelerates hairloss but ashawanga only increased test by 10 percent I think, now sure about tong Kat. Not gonna be noticable tbh, I also take ashawanga.


nah i think it’s more than that. idk, i noticed i have very minor thinning. it’s most likely from me growing my hair out long and i think it’s always been like this.


----------



## Dogs (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> nah i think it’s more than that. idk, i noticed i have very minor thinning. it’s most likely from me growing my hair out long and i think it’s always been like this.


I thought the same shit when I grew my hair out long, turns out I was losing density


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dogs said:


> I thought the same shit when I grew my hair out long, turns out I was losing density


  how to reverse? i’m getting it cut this weekend. i think its been like this forever tho.


----------



## Dogs (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> how to reverse? i’m getting it cut this weekend. i think its been like this forever tho.


"i think its been like this forever"

Legit dude I thought the same fucking shit, but on my own even without being blackpilled on hair. But yeah fin 'can' reverse but not necessarily. I dunno man maybe you really haven't lost density but maybe you have. It's impossible reverse loss tho. I do want to try dermastamp tho but still haven't bought it. I might get on minox too but either way I'm fucked cause of my hairline so I'd have to run some type of hair cover-up. So fin, minox, peppermint, dermastamp, all those might give me enough quality hair to run cover-up but not sure, probably hair system is for the best.


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dogs said:


> "i think its been like this forever"
> 
> Legit dude I thought the same fucking shit, but on my own even without being blackpilled on hair. But yeah fin 'can' reverse but not necessarily. I dunno man maybe you really haven't lost density but maybe you have. It's impossible reverse loss tho. I do want to try dermastamp tho but still haven't bought it. I might get on minox too but either way I'm fucked cause of my hairline so I'd have to run some type of hair cover-up. So fin, minox, peppermint, dermastamp, all those might give me enough quality hair to run cover-up but not sure, probably hair system is for the best.


I probably haven’t. I’ll pm you a vid, you’ll probably laugh bc i have a feeling i’m worrying too much. i just to survive until a super cure for baldness comes out when i’m like 25. once i’m 40 i won’t care about looks as much. even tho hair when you’re 35+ is a halo.


----------



## Dogs (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> I probably haven’t. I’ll pm you a vid, you’ll probably laugh bc i have a feeling i’m worrying too much. i just to survive until a super cure for baldness comes out when i’m like 25. once i’m 40 i won’t care about looks as much. even tho hair when you’re 35+ is a halo.


you need to compare to older hairline back maybe when you're 15 or 14 to see if there was any difference, it took me a lot of looking at older pics of me to spot the difference tbh


----------



## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> how to reverse? i’m getting it cut this weekend. i think its been like this forever tho.


Just jump on fin. (How old are you? If 21+ jump on fin.)
I'm 24 and noticed hair loss at 22, it had receded to a widow's peak but still look alright and I had great density. I just waited it out and now I'm noticing major density loss in the front, I can see my pattern now and I'm definitely going full Jude Law mode. 
Couple days ago I jumped in the shower to use Nizoral for the first time (cope buy in my case but major recommend, it completely nuked my dandruff which has been a lifelong problem and after 1 use of Niz I didn't have a single flake, and i haven't felt scalp itch since I used it) and while I washing my hair I noticed hair covering my hands. That was my last straw, I'm setting up an appointment this Saturday to get a fin prescip and I will start taking it Monday.
Thing is if you think you will probably use it at some point then START NOW. That's my conclusion anyway, I should've just decided to get on at 22 instead of coping around. I've done a fuckload of research on this, less than 1% of men experience permanent sides. If you or I are that 1% life will certainly get 100x more hellish for us, but IMO that's worth a roll of the dice to maintain your hair. I plan on jumping on fin and then applying the protocol outlined here








The Prostaglandin Protocol - Updated Hair Regrowth Guide


As a continuation and a massive fix to the previous thread: https://looksmax.org/threads/regrow-your-hair-follicles-androgenic-alopecia-no-excuses-after-youve-read-this-tbh-ngl.4678/page-5 You should avoid anything that prevents PGE2 levels from increasing in your scalp. For this sole reason I...




looksmax.org




as well as a few other things I've picked up from obsessively researching hair loss for 2 years to cope that I had control over it
tl;dr TAKE ACTION NOW PRESERVE HAIR


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> Just jump on fin. (How old are you? If 21+ jump on fin.)
> I'm 24 and noticed hair loss at 22, it had receded to a widow's peak but still look alright and I had great density. I just waited it out and now I'm noticing major density loss in the front, I can see my pattern now and I'm definitely going full Jude Law mode.
> Couple days ago I jumped in the shower to use Nizoral for the first time (cope buy in my case but major recommend, it completely nuked my dandruff which has been a lifelong problem and after 1 use of Niz I didn't have a single flake, and i haven't felt scalp itch since I used it) and while I washing my hair I noticed hair covering my hands. That was my last straw, I'm setting up an appointment this Saturday to get a fin prescip and I will start taking it Monday.
> Thing is if you think you will probably use it at some point then START NOW. That's my conclusion anyway, I should've just decided to get on at 22 instead of coping around. I've done a fuckload of research on this, less than 1% of men experience permanent sides. If you or I are that 1% life will certainly get 100x more hellish for us, but IMO that's worth a roll of the dice to maintain your hair. I plan on jumping on fin and then applying the protocol outlined here
> ...


i’m 19.


----------



## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> i’m 19.


In that case everything I said still applies, but fuck if you can eke out 2 more years without it then I would do that if I were you. Just a hunch, I could be wrong but I have a suspicion that its more likely to permanently fuck you up the younger you take it. I feel uneasy recommended fin to someone below 21. 
That said fin works to preserve hair and not necessarily regrow it and its way easier to preserve hair then it is to get back lost hair. If your hair gets to a point where you're not ok with it, seriously consider fin.


----------



## TylerDurden (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> Just jump on fin. (How old are you? If 21+ jump on fin.)
> I'm 24 and noticed hair loss at 22, it had receded to a widow's peak but still look alright and I had great density. I just waited it out and now I'm noticing major density loss in the front, I can see my pattern now and I'm definitely going full Jude Law mode.
> Couple days ago I jumped in the shower to use Nizoral for the first time (cope buy in my case but major recommend, it completely nuked my dandruff which has been a lifelong problem and after 1 use of Niz I didn't have a single flake, and i haven't felt scalp itch since I used it) and while I washing my hair I noticed hair covering my hands. That was my last straw, I'm setting up an appointment this Saturday to get a fin prescip and I will start taking it Monday.
> Thing is if you think you will probably use it at some point then START NOW. That's my conclusion anyway, I should've just decided to get on at 22 instead of coping around. I've done a fuckload of research on this, less than 1% of men experience permanent sides. If you or I are that 1% life will certainly get 100x more hellish for us, but IMO that's worth a roll of the dice to maintain your hair. I plan on jumping on fin and then applying the protocol outlined here
> ...


Stuff like Nizoral and Minox without fin/dut is like putting a bandage on a knife wound - You are bleeding out and need serious medical attention, a bandage can't save you unless you take care of the root of the problem. I also waited 2 years to take fin because I was scared of the side effects (took minox/saw palmetto and other stuff instead), but my hair continued to recede. Currently I'm only taking 0.5mg of fin each night (for 2 years and haven't been on anything else, not even minox, nizoral or anything of this nature), and my hair has never looked better. It was the only thing that saved my hair. As long as you take care to control the estradiol boost that occurs when you start taking it, the side effects you experience will be non-existent/minimal unless you know what you are looking for.


----------



## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

TylerDurden said:


> Stuff like Nizoral and Minox without fin/dut is like putting a bandage on a knife wound - You are bleeding out and need serious medical attention, a bandage can't save you unless you take care of the root of the problem. I also waited 2 years to take fin because I was scared of the side effects (took minox/saw palmetto and other stuff instead), but my hair continued to recede. Currently I'm only taking 0.5mg of fin each night (for 2 years and haven't been on anything else, not even minox, nizoral or anything of this nature), and my hair has never looked better. It was the only thing that saved my hair. As long as you take care to control the estradiol boost that occurs when you start taking it, the side effects you experience will be non-existent/minimal unless you know what you are looking for.


Damn dude how old are you and how old were you when you started taking fin? Did density return?
I totally agree that those things without a potent anti-androgen are copes, I've resolute to start taking fin now. Although Nizoral seems to have nuked my scalp inflammation from orbit I know that alone will probably do nothing, if I cope with that in six months my scalp top will look like a fucking bombed out Iraqi village JFL
How do I control the estradiol boost?


----------



## TylerDurden (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> Damn dude how old are you and how old were you when you started taking fin? Did density return?
> I totally agree that those things without a potent anti-androgen are copes, I've resolute to start taking fin now. Although Nizoral seems to have nuked my scalp inflammation from orbit I know that alone will probably do nothing, if I cope with that in six months my scalp top will look like a fucking bombed out Iraqi village JFL
> How do I control the estradiol boost?


I'm about to be 23 and I started soon after turning 21. For density - anywhere that was thinning filled back up /came back, have had absolutely no recession since taking it, and my hair felt a lot thicker in general, but whatever's gone before you start taking it is gone. For estradiol control, I advise diet (pomegranate juice, mushrooms, broccoli all work really well to lower estrogen) and to save estrogen-blockers as a last resort (I never needed to use it). You'll know that your estradiol is high because your body will start storing a lot of your fat in your mid-section area, you'll gain like 5 pounds in water weight, your erections will be weak, etc; as long as you take care of this you'll feel really great.


----------



## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

TylerDurden said:


> I'm about to be 23 and I started soon after turning 21. For density - anywhere that was thinning filled back up /came back, have had absolutely no recession since taking it, and my hair felt a lot thicker in general, but whatever's gone before you start taking it is gone. For estradiol control, I advise diet (pomegranate juice, mushrooms, broccoli all work really well to lower estrogen) and to save estrogen-blockers as a last resort (I never needed to use it). You'll know that your estradiol is high because your body will start storing a lot of your fat in your mid-section area, you'll gain like 5 pounds in water weight, your erections will be weak, etc; as long as you take care of this you'll feel really great.


how long until you saw the effects?


----------



## TylerDurden (Oct 10, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> how long until you saw the effects?


Shedding is pretty bad within the first 3 months. Around the 3-month mark is when I first saw my thinning areas really start to fill back up again/really noticeable results.


----------



## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

TylerDurden said:


> I'm about to be 23 and I started soon after turning 21. For density - anywhere that was thinning filled back up /came back, have had absolutely no recession since taking it, and my hair felt a lot thicker in general, but whatever's gone before you start taking it is gone. For estradiol control, I advise diet (pomegranate juice, mushrooms, broccoli all work really well to lower estrogen) and to save estrogen-blockers as a last resort (I never needed to use it). You'll know that your estradiol is high because your body will start storing a lot of your fat in your mid-section area, you'll gain like 5 pounds in water weight, your erections will be weak, etc; as long as you take care of this you'll feel really great.


Bruh what's the compound in the those food items that counteracts estradiol? I only ask because I also plan on running carnivore diet soon for various health goals on top of frequent fasting. 
@SquareChinOrDeath said
"Nuking DHT with Duta will cause gynecomacia if you don't take anti beta-estradiol, but I've taken Duta for 6 months with 200mg I-3-C once a day and got no gyno whatsoever. I'm 10 months into Duta and now taking 200mg I-3-C Twice a day because why not."
If I supplement with I-3-C, will that also work for what you are suggesting? Or is there no way around consuming the foods?
Also fuck bro thank you for the highly informative posts, you're really putting my mind at ease for taking fin


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## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

TylerDurden said:


> Shedding is pretty bad within the first 3 months. Around the 3-month mark is when I first saw my thinning areas really start to fill back up again/really noticeable results.


so it gets bad before it gets worse. and if i did, hypothetically, for like 6 months then stopped. would it keep the thickness? or do u keep on having to dose it


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## LordNorwood (Oct 10, 2019)

TylerDurden said:


> Shedding is pretty bad within the first 3 months. Around the 3-month mark is when I first saw my thinning areas really start to fill back up again/really noticeable results.


How hellish was the shedding on a scale of 1 - 24/7 hat wearing?


PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> so it gets bad before it gets worse. and if i did, hypothetically, for like 6 months then stopped. would it keep the thickness? or do u keep on having to dose it


You gotta keep taking fin for it to work, if you get off you will start to lose hair again


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## TylerDurden (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> Bruh what's the compound in the those food items that counteracts estradiol? I only ask because I also plan on running carnivore diet soon for various health goals on top of frequent fasting.
> @SquareChinOrDeath said
> "Nuking DHT with Duta will cause gynecomacia if you don't take anti beta-estradiol, but I've taken Duta for 6 months with 200mg I-3-C once a day and got no gyno whatsoever. I'm 10 months into Duta and now taking 200mg I-3-C Twice a day because why not."
> If I supplement with I-3-C, will that also work for what you are suggesting? Or is there no way around consuming the foods?
> Also fuck bro thank you for the highly informative posts, you're really putting my mind at ease for taking fin


I-3-C is what is found in broccoli that negatively regulates estrogen, so yes it should work (I haven't taken it, but it's the same idea), and no problem.



LordNorwood said:


> How hellish was the shedding on a scale of 1 - 24/7 hat wearing?


Bad enough for you to wake up from bed and your pillow literally be covered in hair



PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> so it gets bad before it gets worse. and if i did, hypothetically, for like 6 months then stopped. would it keep the thickness? or do u keep on having to dose it


Yes, in fact, the increased shedding is a very good sign that it is working (pushing out the follicles that have already been sentenced to death/dormant to make space for new growth). You need to continuously take it for it to work, if you are feeling uneasy because of your age, then it's your decision. I'm not going to say wait till 21 to take it because I know I wouldn't have been able to do the same and risk seeing myself in a NW3 all because I was hoping for more "bone growth" in the face in ages 19-21.


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## Deleted member 2846 (Oct 10, 2019)

TylerDurden said:


> I-3-C is what is found in broccoli that negatively regulates estrogen, so yes it should work (I haven't taken it, but it's the same idea), and no problem.
> 
> 
> Bad enough for you to wake up from bed and your pillow literally be covered in hair
> ...


holy shit ur pillow would be covered in hair that’s bad.


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## Deleted member 1849 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dogs said:


> Doesn't mean you won't go bald, until you're late 20s you just don't know


 Doubt it my dad's side of the family is from puerto rico so my hair is super thick and curly but not wiry and unatractive cuz my mom's from the states. Even if i do recede I'm gonna hop on fin idc. The only thing making me attractive is my hair, fhwr, and midface lmao.


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## SquareChinOrDeath (Oct 10, 2019)

LordNorwood said:


> Bruh what's the compound in the those food items that counteracts estradiol? I only ask because I also plan on running carnivore diet soon for various health goals on top of frequent fasting.
> @SquareChinOrDeath said
> "Nuking DHT with Duta will cause gynecomacia if you don't take anti beta-estradiol, but I've taken Duta for 6 months with 200mg I-3-C once a day and got no gyno whatsoever. I'm 10 months into Duta and now taking 200mg I-3-C Twice a day because why not."
> If I supplement with I-3-C, will that also work for what you are suggesting? Or is there no way around consuming the foods?
> Also fuck bro thank you for the highly informative posts, you're really putting my mind at ease for taking fin


You need 18kg Broccoli for 200mg I-3-C. Not taking I-3-C or DIM is a huge mistake on Dutasteride.


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## Deleted member 685 (Oct 10, 2019)

Good thread


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## Deleted member 1476 (Oct 10, 2019)

Gudru said:


> Good thread


nearly there bro


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## Deleted member 685 (Oct 10, 2019)

jm10 said:


> nearly there bro


Fuck yeah!


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## x30001 (Oct 10, 2019)

DrTony said:


> Can you post the results of the phase II trial? I am curious.
> 
> WNT/beta catenin is heavily implicated in cancer it’s an early developmental/embryonic transcriptional program.
> 
> I think balding has to do with biological/epigenetic aging. Meaning the 3D chromatin conformation is dynamically remodeled with time which makes certain genes more or less active by impeding or facilitating access to transcription factors or methylation changes. Progressively Silence enough of good/protective genes involved in MPB (like genes regulated by Wnt) or who knows what else and u ll get MPB solely but surely. Doesn’t mean you need to target genes, major downstream effectors will suffice








What About Samumed Phase II? – Follicle Thought







www.folliclethought.com


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## Chadelite (Oct 10, 2019)

x30001 said:


> So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.



iq off the charts as always
higher iq than nasa combined


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## justincarp (Oct 14, 2019)

x30001 said:


> So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.





Good post.

Have you read much about WAY316606?


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## x30001 (Oct 14, 2019)

justincarp said:


> Good post.
> 
> Have you read much about WAY316606?


No I haven't heard of it. What is it?


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## justincarp (Oct 14, 2019)

x30001 said:


> No I haven't heard of it. What is it?


"In addition, WAY-316606 is highly selective against other closely related SFRP family members (SFRP2 and SFRP5). For example, at 2 μM, WAY-316606 inhibits SFRP1 activity by about 40%, whereas SFRP2 and SFRP5 activity is only inhibited by about 5% and about 2%, respectively [26]. Moreover, this Wnt disinhibition technique may be a safer long-term therapeutic strategy for stimulating β-catenin activity in the human HF. Because inhibiting SFRP1 by WAY-316606 only facilitates Wnt signalling through ligands that are already present in the human HF, this ‘ligand-limited’ strategy for promoting human hair growth may circumvent potential oncological risks typically associated with β-catenin stabilisation"

tl;dr:

Synergistic with wounding and the prostaglandin protocol or on its own or in combination with PGE2. As SFRP1 inhibition is another approach to open WNT signaling beyond GSK3ß or DKK1 inhibition. WNT helps regenerating the lacking progenitor cells (CD34 & CD200), and to quote an old finding from Cots:

"When cells move in to close a wound, they are trying to make a decision: Should I make epidermis or should I make a hair? If there is a lot of Wnt around, they choose to become hair follicles. - Cotsarelis 2008"


I know we already have lithium chloride, but low-dose toxicity is an issue. Not enough lithium chloride: zero results. Too much: aggressive hairloss in applied areas. Just because 1 guy gets results with x amount, doesnt mean the next guy will too.


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## yougottadowhatyougot (Oct 14, 2019)

just take tranny drugs bro


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## GenericChad1444 (Oct 14, 2019)

Gudru said:


> Good thread





TylerDurden said:


> I'm not going to say wait till 21 to take it because I know I wouldn't have been able to do the same and risk seeing myself in a NW3 all because I was hoping for more "bone growth" in the face in ages 19-21.



I'm in this exact position, it's a coin flip at this point


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## Deleted member 2587 (Oct 14, 2019)

PrettyBoyMaxxing said:


> My neurotransmitters are top tier. I hope I don’t get sides tho... I’m 19, is that too young? I just wanna keep my NW1 as it is until science reveals the “cure” in like mid 2020’s.


I’m 19 and on fin you’ll be fine.


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## Seth Walsh (Mar 13, 2020)

x30001 said:


> View attachment 92012
> 
> On norwood reaper's list
> 
> ...



The main Wnt target genes are likely KRT81 and movo1


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## Assyrian_Warrior (Feb 27, 2022)

jefferson said:


> it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.
> 
> native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.


fuck man fuck


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