# Thoughts on New Custom Cheekbone & Mandible Implants



## madcap88 (Apr 30, 2022)

Recently got this implant design from Dr. Y for custom mandible (jaw & chin) and malar / cheekbones with infraorbital rims. 

Interested in thoughts.


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## valhalar (Apr 30, 2022)

I’m always a bit scared of the very square jaw implants, but if you like that look go for it. Photo of your face would help tbh.


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## valhalar (May 1, 2022)

Oh if you have a thin neck, then the large gonial flaring might look bad and create pencil neck effect.

Here is an example of a slender guy with a mandible proportional to his neck width. It looks good even though he really only has chin prominence. This is because genetics that code for large mandibles tend to code for thick necks too, so usually you don’t see wide mandibles with pencil necks:






Just ensure that if you’re gonna go that wide that your neck is either almost as thick or will be able to be widened that amount via workout.


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## madcap88 (May 1, 2022)

valhalar said:


> Oh if you have a thin neck, then the large gonial flaring might look bad and create pencil neck effect.
> 
> Here is an example of a slender guy with a mandible proportional to his neck width. It looks good even though he really only has chin prominence. This is because genetics that code for large mandibles tend to code for thick necks too, so usually you don’t see wide mandibles with pencil necks:
> 
> ...


Heres a pic. Also included Toni Mahfud and Mario Rodriguez who were references for surgeon.


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## AlexBrown84 (May 1, 2022)




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## madcap88 (May 1, 2022)

Any other thoughts?


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## WhatsMonogamy (May 2, 2022)

It is a good design individually, however it lacks the rest of the cheekbone area. It will be painfully unnnatural looking. Either you get another design or fillers after implants to make the transition natural looking.


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## Deleted member 18776 (May 2, 2022)

WhatsMonogamy said:


> It is a good design individually, however it lacks the rest of the cheekbone area. It will be painfully unnnatural looking. Either you get another design or fillers after implants to make the transition natural looking.


true, needs a small 1-2mm lateral increase too, probably


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## madcap88 (May 2, 2022)

pintolino said:


> true, needs a small 1-2mm lateral increase too, probably


Do you and WhatsMonogamy mean 1) the implants should be slightly wider, or 2) they should project further back along the side of head?

What areas are causing the design to be unnatural?

Thanks!


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## Deleted member 18776 (May 2, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Do you and WhatsMonogamy mean 1) the implants should be slightly wider, or 2) they should project further back along the side of head?
> 
> What areas are causing the design to be unnatural?
> 
> Thanks!


it should extend along the zygomatic arch (backwards, parallel to the face).
if u dont do this it will give u a weird cheek shape (like a ball u know)


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## Deleted member 18776 (May 2, 2022)

pintolino said:


> it should extend along the zygomatic arch (backwards, parallel to the face).
> if u dont do this it will give u a weird cheek shape (like a ball u know)


so its 2)


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## WhatsMonogamy (May 2, 2022)

blue is where the implant could extend further. Red is where u will need fillers despite the implants, because that will create a very unnatural gap inbetween. 
Everybody can instantly tell that your jaw flares too much to be natural if you dont fill up the transitions.


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## Cope (May 26, 2022)

Good looks @madcap88. And I'm just curious, why did you decide to go with Yaremchuk instead of Eppley?


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## madcap88 (May 27, 2022)

Cope said:


> Good looks @madcap88. And I'm just curious, why did you decide to go with Yaremchuk instead of Eppley?


Thanks, also after going over the design and talking to Dr. Y about the points others made above, I trust his judgement. He is the expert and I have seen several guys going in for the exact same procedures and preaching it changed their lives for the better.

I chose him, as others have said, because he doesn't have a single 'off', 'weird', or 'uncanny' result. And to those who say "those results just aren't posted to keep it secret", I disagree. So many surgeons have the uncanny results out there - what a surgeon puts up also reflects their aesthetic judgement/eye. 

Also, he has extensive experience on facial reconstruction using the same techniques for aesthetic purposes and regularly publishes academic papers on them. PLUS he is Harvard affiliated, as are all of his surgical assistants. 

He is plenty patient with you asking him a ton of questions. I did this several times for mental security. 

The problem with getting advice from these forums is no one here has the decades nor trained surgical eye to effectively interpret 3D implant designs like above. All great things to consider, but it's great sharing the feedback you get here on designs with him so you understand your own design better. Quite excited - I'm a solid 7 and this literally resolves the 2 drawbacks I have.


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## Cope (May 27, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Thanks, also after going over the design and talking to Dr. Y about the points others made above, I trust his judgement. He is the expert and I have seen several guys going in for the exact same procedures and preaching it changed their lives for the better.
> 
> I chose him, as others have said, because he doesn't have a single 'off', 'weird', or 'uncanny' result. And to those who say "those results just aren't posted to keep it secret", I disagree. So many surgeons have the uncanny results out there - what a surgeon puts up also reflects their aesthetic judgement/eye.
> 
> ...


Nice, you actually answered a lot of the questions l've been having. There truly is no one on the market doing it like Yaremchuk. I definitely agree with the advice meme on this forum. There is a heavy exaggeration about who he is as a person, but users are just still too young/spend too much time on this forum thinking that he doesn't work with you yet you're paying him for a service.

I definitely just want a conservative augmentation to my infraorbital malar area. I honestly don't really need it lol, but it could potentially put me in the HT Chad category if I did.


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## Wallenberg (May 27, 2022)

@madcap88 Are you concerned because Y uses silicone instead of PEEK in his jaw implants? What about infection risk?

Keep us updated! I consider getting jaw implants from Y so that's why I'm interested.


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## madcap88 (May 27, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> @madcap88 Are you concerned because Y uses silicone instead of PEEK in his jaw implants? What about infection risk?
> 
> Oil us updated! I consider getting jaw implants from Y so that's why I'm interested


I opted for him to use medpor. This will ensure there is no risk of movement long-term. Not worried - results will likely exceed expectations, so this is preferred. Additionally, since implants (these same types) are often used to combat aesthetic effects of aging, this ALREADY address any age-related changes for the better. So these will keep me looking younger as I age as well. Dr. Y also has older patients coming in for that so he covers all bases.

By far most qualified and professional surgeon I have interacted with. I wouldn't trust ANYONE else with this set of surgeries, even so much if I couldn't get him I wouldn't do it at all. Eppley has TOO many odd and uncanny cases and honestly, us patients are NOT qualified to be too involved in the process. That's what Eppley does wrong, and he also does that because his aesthetic eye isn't on the tier of Dr. Y's (in my opinion).


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## Wallenberg (May 27, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> I opted for him to use medpor. This will ensure there is no risk of movement long-term. Not worried - results will likely exceed expectations, so this is preferred. Additionally, since implants (these same types) are often used to combat aesthetic effects of aging, this ALREADY address any age-related changes for the better. So these will keep me looking younger as I age as well. Dr. Y also has older patients coming in for that so he covers all bases.
> 
> By far most qualified and professional surgeon I have interacted with. I wouldn't trust ANYONE else with this set of surgeries, even so much if I couldn't get him I wouldn't do it at all. Eppley has TOO many odd and uncanny cases and honestly, us patients are NOT qualified to be too involved in the process. That's what Eppley does wrong, and he also does that because his aesthetic eye isn't on the tier of Dr. Y's (in my opinion).


Does medpor cost the same as silicone? Medpor is hard to remove though in case of infection or revision.


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## madcap88 (May 27, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> @madcap88 Are you concerned because Y uses silicone instead of PEEK in his jaw implants? What about infection risk?
> 
> Oil us updated! I consider getting jaw implants from Y so that's why I'm interested


I opted for him to use medpor. This will ensure there is no risk of movement long-term. Not worried results will exceed expectations, so this is preferred. Additionally, since implants (these same types) are often used to combat aesthetic effects of aging, this ALREADY address any age-related changes for the better. So these will keep me looking younger as I age as well. Dr. Y also has older patients coming in for that so he covers all bases.

By far most qualified and professional surgeon I have interacted with.


Wallenberg said:


> Does medpor cost the same as silicone? Medpor is hard to remove though in case of infection or revision.


I am not sure on the cost difference. Medpor can be removed by surgeons experienced with the material. Revision can also be done with Medpor. You would know pretty quick (in a couple weeks) if there's something majorly wrong with the design.

In terms of infection, the rate of this is extremely low and as with anything intra-oral you need to take care of your health there. If the implant may potentially move (as with silicone) I personally dont see the point of getting surgery at all.


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## Wallenberg (May 28, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> I opted for him to use medpor. This will ensure there is no risk of movement long-term. Not worried results will exceed expectations, so this is preferred. Additionally, since implants (these same types) are often used to combat aesthetic effects of aging, this ALREADY address any age-related changes for the better. So these will keep me looking younger as I age as well. Dr. Y also has older patients coming in for that so he covers all bases.
> 
> By far most qualified and professional surgeon I have interacted with.
> 
> ...


Plenty of people have had good experiences with silicone implants. For example, @Win200 's implant is silicone and done by Y. 

@RealSurgerymax what do you think of medpor vs silicone? Y doesn't use PEEK as far as I know, so PEEK isn't an option.


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## madcap88 (May 28, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Plenty of people have had good experiences with silicone implants. For example, @Win200 's implant is silicone and done by Y.
> 
> @RealSurgerymax what do you think of medpor vs silicone? Y doesn't use PEEK as far as I know, so PEEK isn't an option.


@Wallenberg I went in wanting silicone based off that very same logic. But for mandible he only gave me medpor as option. For others he offered silicone or medpor, but I wanted everything to be of the same material and he suggested medpor as well.

It seems he has stopped using silicone for mandible OR it wasn't appropriate for my desired results. I trust his judgement - I'd rather get medpor from Dr. Y then get a not as well designed silicone. But that is a preference.


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## Cardiologyscribe (May 28, 2022)

Why Dr Y and not Giant Implants of South East Asia?


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## Wallenberg (May 28, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg I went in wanting silicone based off that very same logic. But for mandible he only gave me medpor as option. For others he offered silicone or medpor, but I wanted everything to be of the same material and he suggested medpor as well.
> 
> It seems he has stopped using silicone for mandible OR it wasn't appropriate for my desired results. I trust his judgement - I'd rather get medpor from Dr. Y then get a not as well designed silicone. But that is a preference.


How much do your jaw implants cost? Interesting that he only offers medpor to you.


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## madcap88 (May 28, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> How much do your jaw implants cost? Interesting that he only offers medpor to you.


@Wallenberg 6k for design. Then the total surgery (midface - malar, orbital, paranasal AND mandible- angle, chin, jaw) is 25k


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## Wallenberg (May 28, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg 6k for design. Then the total surgery (midface - malar, orbital, paranasal AND mandible- angle, chin, jaw) is 25k


6k for design? What do you mean? Jaw implant was 6k?


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> 6k for design? What do you mean? Jaw implant was 6k?


@Wallenberg Mine are all custom. When you get custom implants you have to pay a design & manufacture fee with most surgeons. Dr. Y charged me 6k all-inclusive. Then the rest is paying for the actual performing of surgery (25k).


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## Wallenberg (May 29, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg Mine are all custom. When you get custom implants you have to pay a design & manufacture fee with most surgeons. Dr. Y charged me 6k all-inclusive. Then the rest is paying for the actual performing of surgery (25k).


So the total is 31k? And 6k is the design and manufacturing all your implants?


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## zeek (May 29, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Recently got this implant design from Dr. Y for custom mandible (jaw & chin) and malar / cheekbones with infraorbital rims.
> 
> Interested in thoughts.


please post your photos at least of ur cheeks/orbitals you can color your eyes out

this design is good, do not listen to that moron who drew on the back edge of the implant. there is no need to augment past the suture and your cheek is an oblique, the prominence has a good amount of projection, though you could prob push him to go a bit further. dr y doesn't love ridiculous patient involvement but you might be able to get him to go bigger by 2mm at the most prominent point to go from 5-7.

trust him to design it but know he tends to be not overdo, so you might want more. though i don't know your tissue thickness.


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## zeek (May 29, 2022)

WhatsMonogamy said:


> blue is where the implant could extend further. Red is where u will need fillers despite the implants, because that will create a very unnatural gap inbetween.
> Everybody can instantly tell that your jaw flares too much to be natural if you dont fill up the transitions.


 there is no need to augment further back. 

and jaw comment is proof you are retarded. there is a ton of soft tissue over the jaw. it will not look unnatural. please stfu dumb fuck.


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

zeek said:


> please post your photos at least of ur cheeks/orbitals you can color your eyes out
> 
> this design is good, do not listen to that moron who drew on the back edge of the implant. there is no need to augment past the suture and your cheek is an oblique, the prominence has a good amount of projection, though you could prob push him to go a bit further. dr y doesn't love ridiculous patient involvement but you might be able to get him to go bigger by 2mm at the most prominent point to go from 5-7.
> 
> trust him to design it but know he tends to be not overdo, so you might want more. though i don't know your tissue thickness.


@zeek I remember him saying he was doing a 'better than natural, but still natural' (i.e. not fake) look to emulate the reference pictures I provided (Toni Mahfud, etc.).


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## WhatsMonogamy (May 29, 2022)

zeek said:


> there is no need to augment further back.
> 
> and jaw comment is proof you are retarded. there is a ton of soft tissue over the jaw. it will not look unnatural. please stfu dumb fuck.


aight OP can decide for himself. The reference pictures, especially toni mahfud has this very visible augmentation across the suture, he aint natural, he got fillers in cheeks to harmonize his jaw and chinimplant. He looks completely uncanny in videos, but photoshops himself to look more natural. OP doesnt have the prominent overall gigantic skull and maxilla that rodriguez has, it will just look comically and out of place when his jaw flares like that. Like this


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

WhatsMonogamy said:


> aight OP can decide for himself. The reference pictures, especially toni mahfud has this very visible augmentation across the suture, he aint natural, he got fillers in cheeks to harmonize his jaw and chinimplant. He looks completely uncanny in videos, but photoshops himself to look more natural. OP doesnt have the prominent overall gigantic skull and maxilla that rodriguez has, it will just look comically and out of place when his jaw flares like that. Like this


@WhatsMonogamy I doubt that will be result given its Dr. Y, he is known for being conservative

Also, midface implants (malar, infraorbital, paranasal) are included so I do not believe there will be an imbalance with midface.


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## zeek (May 29, 2022)

WhatsMonogamy said:


> aight OP can decide for himself. The reference pictures, especially toni mahfud has this very visible augmentation across the suture, he aint natural, he got fillers in cheeks to harmonize his jaw and chinimplant. He looks completely uncanny in videos, but photoshops himself to look more natural. OP doesnt have the prominent overall gigantic skull and maxilla that rodriguez has, it will just look comically and out of place when his jaw flares like that. Like this


This is a woman with large massetere. Proving my point of large amounts of soft tissue covering the implants. OP included his soft tissue scan.


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## LebenistneHure (May 29, 2022)

Price my nigga? I need so many implants (jaw angle, tear trough/cheekbone, temporal), getting all of them custom made would take me years just to be able to afford. Looks good imo, would be interested in seeing your before/afters. When's the surg?


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

LebenistneHure said:


> Price my nigga? I need so many implants (jaw angle, tear trough/cheekbone, temporal), getting all of them custom made would take me years just to be able to afford. Looks good imo, would be interested in seeing your before/afters. When's the surg?


@LebenistneHure The custom implant design & manufacture fee was 6k. The surgical cost is 25k. 31k total


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

zeek said:


> please post your photos at least of ur cheeks/orbitals you can color your eyes out
> 
> this design is good, do not listen to that moron who drew on the back edge of the implant. there is no need to augment past the suture and your cheek is an oblique, the prominence has a good amount of projection, though you could prob push him to go a bit further. dr y doesn't love ridiculous patient involvement but you might be able to get him to go bigger by 2mm at the most prominent point to go from 5-7.
> 
> trust him to design it but know he tends to be not overdo, so you might want more. though i don't know your tissue thickness


@zeek The design says they are ~5.5 at the most prominent point I believe. Also, I consider my cheekbone area much better than average - Dr. Y himself said 'You know your malar area isn't as bad as you think'. That in conjunction with the fact I provided pictures of Toni Mahfud and Mario Rodriguez as reference makes me confident that his design will be plenty. He also gave me the impression that he was doing a bit 'more' with my particular design and that the result will be spot on with the Mahfud & Rodriguez look. Love the design, it's like a fusion of both Mahfud's and Rodriguez's midface and lower-third.


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

Also, noting my nose is actually incredibly swollen in the provided pictures & scan. Had rhinoplasty a few months back with Dr. Liotta in New York. She is excellent! Go-to for rhino imo.

At the current moment my nose bridge is WAY narrower than before, and tip is looking excellently refined. May be getting alarplasty from her early next year to finalize.


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## Wallenberg (May 29, 2022)

@madcap88 how long do you have to wait until the surgery?


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

@Wallenberg Its this week.


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## Wallenberg (May 29, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg Its this week.


Good luck! But when did you have your first consultation? I.e. how long from the first consultation until the surgery?


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

@Wallenberg Could have gotten surgery a month and a half after first consultation. First consultation was middle of February, could have gotten it end of March. Conflicting schedule prevented me from doing earlier. BUT to do that with custom implants, you have to pay the design and manufacture fee immediately. It takes 3 weeks for them to get them from ImplantTech


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## Wallenberg (May 29, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg Could have gotten surgery a month and a half after first consultation. First consultation was middle of February, could have gotten it end of March. Conflicting schedule prevented me from doing earlier. BUT to do that with custom implants, you have to pay the design and manufacture fee immediately. It takes 3 weeks for them to get them from ImplantTech


Very nice. I'm waiting for my consultation and want to do the surgery as soon as possible. I'm interested in jaw implants.

Continue sharing your experiences with Dr. Y. It's appreciated.


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## madcap88 (May 29, 2022)

@Wallenberg I would definitely go with custom implants. Also, I will post about the pre-op, op, and post-op experience


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## Wallenberg (May 29, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg I would definitely go with custom implants. Also, I will post about the pre-op, op, and post-op experience


Yeah, I'm going with a custom implant. A month and a half after the first consultation is very nice.


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## Wallenberg (Jun 6, 2022)

@madcap88 how did the surgery go?


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## madcap88 (Jun 12, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> @madcap88 how did the surgery go?


Hey @Wallenberg , the surgery went excellent. Surgery day proved Dr. Y's expertise and his staff's high level of care. They were very good at answering any questions and concerns I had prior to surgery that day, and were very accomodating in terms of payment (Memorial Day (the day before surgery) messed up how much I could have in-hand at the time of surgery - they were fine charging my card later that day during surgery). The overnight nurse went above and beyond - I asked for half a million things and they delivered on every one.

In terms of recovery, be prepared for more swelling than you can imagine. When I looked at myself in the mirror the night after I couldn't believe how swollen my face was, words can not describe. I came back to Dr. Y about 2 days later and he removed both the tape which holds the face to reduce swelling, as well as the stitches around my eyes (malar implants) and chin area. YOU MUST ice all areas of your face as much as you can or swelling (which is more than you can image) will stay longer than you ever want. I STRONGLY recommend getting Eye mask Ice packs, Full-face Ice packs, and a face wraparound belt which holds icepacks in place so you can place exactly where you need. I'll cycle through the packs with extras in the freezer so I never lose the opportunity to reduce swelling. Dr. Y says after first couple days icing won't make a difference - I disagree on this, I instantly see the difference nearly 2 weeks after I take ice off after a session. I'm also taking Arnica, Bromelain, and Vitamin C to help swelling and recovery. The most important thing about recovery though is frequent and consistently brushing your teeth and using mouthwash after every meal. I first brush teeth with Sensodyne Sensitivity & Gum toothpaste with a soft toothbrush, then rinse with Crest Health Pro Clinical mouthwash (best to get), and finally with CT TotalCare Anticavity fluoride. You must use soft toothbrush because of stitches in your mouth, and must do this before you go to sleep and after every meal. Since you wont be able to brush your teeth for the first few days, I would stick to a liquid diet so that the rinses alone can hold you over. This is what stops your implants from getting infected. Surprisingly, pretty much no pain - only need 2 ExtraStrength tylenol for about a week. Only area thats numb on my face is to the left of my nose (likely from paranasal implants) and will likely resolve soon anyways.

Now, in terms of result - I am obviously still VERY swollen. However, considering swelling I can already see Dr. Y may have nailed exactly what I was going for. I can tell given the overall change in my facial shape (I wanted to eliminate the 'roundness' of my face, Dr. Y absolutely did that) and add definition similiar to my references (Mahfud, Rodriguez), Dr. Y nailed that too it seems. Its been 12 days since the surgery, and the areas you would expect to be the most swollen (i.e. malar area, jaw angles, jawline, etc.) are the most swollen. With malar implant swelling, the swelling also extends down to the submalar region (due to gravity as Dr. Y mentioned) - so its hard to visually isolate what swelling is around the implant itself. The infraorbital rim part of my malar implant has also provided me a slight additional positive canthal tilt, which I actually kinda wanted from eye surgery (so that was convenient, since an actual eye surgery wasn't worth the degree of change I was seeking there. My eyes are already pretty damn good). Basically, I look in the mirror and think "If only the implants were a notch smaller" and then immediately think "Thats obviously swelling - its impossible to have the aesthetic result only 12 days after surgery. In fact, they state 6 months is standard".

So far, very impressed by Dr. Y and his staff. When swelling goes down, I'm sure I will be nearly 100% satisfied. Theres no way the perceived size including swelling only 12 days post-surgery is in range of the result / size post-swelling. I see Dr. Y again in a week for follow-up.

Bottom line, how would Toni Mahfud and Mario Rodriguez have looked about 2 weeks after their surgeries? Thats where I'm at.


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## karbo (Jun 12, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @Wallenberg , the surgery went excellent. Surgery day proved Dr. Y's expertise and his staff's high level of care. They were very good at answering any questions and concerns I had prior to surgery that day, and were very accomodating in terms of payment (Memorial Day (the day before surgery) messed up how much I could have in-hand at the time of surgery - they were fine charging my card later that day during surgery). The overnight nurse went above and beyond - I asked for half a million things and they delivered on every one.
> 
> In terms of recovery, be prepared for more swelling than you can imagine. When I looked at myself in the mirror the night after I couldn't believe how swollen my face was, words can not describe. I came back to Dr. Y about 2 days later and he removed both the tape which holds the face to reduce swelling, as well as the stitches around my eyes (malar implants) and chin area. YOU MUST ice all areas of your face as much as you can or swelling (which is more than you can image) will stay longer than you ever want. I STRONGLY recommend getting Eye mask Ice packs, Full-face Ice packs, and a face wraparound belt which holds icepacks in place so you can place exactly where you need. I'll cycle through the packs with extras in the freezer so I never lose the opportunity to reduce swelling. Dr. Y says after first couple days icing won't make a difference - I disagree on this, I instantly see the difference nearly 2 weeks after the instant I take ice off after a session. I'm also taking Arnica, Bromelain, and Vitamin C to help swelling and recovery.
> 
> ...


Holy fuck son, those design pictures looked extremely ideal. 8 PSL if you look like that rn
You could PM me with your results when you feel comfortable


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## karbo (Jun 12, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @Wallenberg , the surgery went excellent. Surgery day proved Dr. Y's expertise and his staff's high level of care. They were very good at answering any questions and concerns I had prior to surgery that day, and were very accomodating in terms of payment (Memorial Day (the day before surgery) messed up how much I could have in-hand at the time of surgery - they were fine charging my card later that day during surgery). The overnight nurse went above and beyond - I asked for half a million things and they delivered on every one.
> 
> In terms of recovery, be prepared for more swelling than you can imagine. When I looked at myself in the mirror the night after I couldn't believe how swollen my face was, words can not describe. I came back to Dr. Y about 2 days later and he removed both the tape which holds the face to reduce swelling, as well as the stitches around my eyes (malar implants) and chin area. YOU MUST ice all areas of your face as much as you can or swelling (which is more than you can image) will stay longer than you ever want. I STRONGLY recommend getting Eye mask Ice packs, Full-face Ice packs, and a face wraparound belt which holds icepacks in place so you can place exactly where you need. I'll cycle through the packs with extras in the freezer so I never lose the opportunity to reduce swelling. Dr. Y says after first couple days icing won't make a difference - I disagree on this, I instantly see the difference nearly 2 weeks after the instant I take ice off after a session. I'm also taking Arnica, Bromelain, and Vitamin C to help swelling and recovery.
> 
> ...


Holy fuck son, those design pictures looked extremely ideal. 8 PSL if you look like that rn
You could PM me with your results when you feel comfortable


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## Wallenberg (Jun 12, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @Wallenberg , the surgery went excellent. Surgery day proved Dr. Y's expertise and his staff's high level of care. They were very good at answering any questions and concerns I had prior to surgery that day, and were very accomodating in terms of payment (Memorial Day (the day before surgery) messed up how much I could have in-hand at the time of surgery - they were fine charging my card later that day during surgery). The overnight nurse went above and beyond - I asked for half a million things and they delivered on every one.
> 
> In terms of recovery, be prepared for more swelling than you can imagine. When I looked at myself in the mirror the night after I couldn't believe how swollen my face was, words can not describe. I came back to Dr. Y about 2 days later and he removed both the tape which holds the face to reduce swelling, as well as the stitches around my eyes (malar implants) and chin area. YOU MUST ice all areas of your face as much as you can or swelling (which is more than you can image) will stay longer than you ever want. I STRONGLY recommend getting Eye mask Ice packs, Full-face Ice packs, and a face wraparound belt which holds icepacks in place so you can place exactly where you need. I'll cycle through the packs with extras in the freezer so I never lose the opportunity to reduce swelling. Dr. Y says after first couple days icing won't make a difference - I disagree on this, I instantly see the difference nearly 2 weeks after the instant I take ice off after a session. I'm also taking Arnica, Bromelain, and Vitamin C to help swelling and recovery.
> 
> ...


Sounds very good. I appreciate that you are willing to share your experience with us. 

I had a consultation with Dr. Y. It was a quite short consultation but Dr. Y was nice and approachable in that consultation. At this point, I think I will go with Dr. Y to get a jaw implant.


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## CristianT (Jun 12, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Sounds very good. I appreciate that you are willing to share your experience with us.
> 
> I had a consultation with Dr. Y. It was a quite short consultation but Dr. Y was nice and approachable in that consultation. At this point, I think I will go with Dr. Y to get a jaw implant.


Good luck with bone erosion. I talked this past two weeks with 2 guys and both of them experienced bone erosion because of stupid silicone material. OP, i hope you are aware of this.

Literally a waste of money and time to go with silicone.


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## madcap88 (Jun 12, 2022)

Hey @CristianT, my implants are medpor. I didn't want to go with silicone because of the bone erosion and unwanted movement I have heard of.


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## Wallenberg (Jun 12, 2022)

CristianT said:


> Good luck with bone erosion. I talked this past two weeks with 2 guys and both of them experienced bone erosion because of stupid silicone material. OP, i hope you are aware of this.


Bone erosion should be limited and I'm not sure if it is limited to silicone.


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## madcap88 (Jun 12, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Sounds very good. I appreciate that you are willing to share your experience with us.
> 
> I had a consultation with Dr. Y. It was a quite short consultation but Dr. Y was nice and approachable in that consultation. At this point, I think I will go with Dr. Y to get a jaw implant.


Hey @Wallenberg I updated my post and added some additional info that you may find helpful.


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## eyebagcel (Jun 12, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @Wallenberg , the surgery went excellent. Surgery day proved Dr. Y's expertise and his staff's high level of care. They were very good at answering any questions and concerns I had prior to surgery that day, and were very accomodating in terms of payment (Memorial Day (the day before surgery) messed up how much I could have in-hand at the time of surgery - they were fine charging my card later that day during surgery). The overnight nurse went above and beyond - I asked for half a million things and they delivered on every one.
> 
> In terms of recovery, be prepared for more swelling than you can imagine. When I looked at myself in the mirror the night after I couldn't believe how swollen my face was, words can not describe. I came back to Dr. Y about 2 days later and he removed both the tape which holds the face to reduce swelling, as well as the stitches around my eyes (malar implants) and chin area. YOU MUST ice all areas of your face as much as you can or swelling (which is more than you can image) will stay longer than you ever want. I STRONGLY recommend getting Eye mask Ice packs, Full-face Ice packs, and a face wraparound belt which holds icepacks in place so you can place exactly where you need. I'll cycle through the packs with extras in the freezer so I never lose the opportunity to reduce swelling. Dr. Y says after first couple days icing won't make a difference - I disagree on this, I instantly see the difference nearly 2 weeks after I take ice off after a session. I'm also taking Arnica, Bromelain, and Vitamin C to help swelling and recovery.
> 
> ...


the canthal tilt change is interesting but Im thinking that could be because of the swelling and not the implant itself since I’ve never heard anyone else getting that kind of change from an infraorbital implant. only time will tell ig


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## madcap88 (Jun 12, 2022)

eyebagcel said:


> the canthal tilt change is interesting but Im thinking that could be because of the swelling and not the implant itself since I’ve never heard anyone else getting that kind of change from an infraorbital implant. only time will tell ig


Yea, thats what I thought. Though, Dr. Y did mention that it would adjust where my bottom eyelid sits - I forget why exactly. Guess time will tell.


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## CristianT (Jun 12, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @CristianT, my implants are medpor. I didn't want to go with silicone because of the bone erosion and unwanted movement I have heard of.


Even worse medpor, unfortunately.


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## Wallenberg (Jun 12, 2022)

PapiMew said:


> To put this into perspective the statement that jaw implant bone erosion occurs implies an active inflammatory bone destructive process - which does not occur. All facial implants, like all body implants including breast implants, create the biologic reaction of tissue adaptation around the implant. This is a normal process that the misinformed interpret erroneously as ‘bone erosion’. It is better turned ‘passive settling’ which means the implant is associated with a pattern or imprint on the bone which is the body’s way of relieving the pressure from an object that is naturally not meant to be there. This may be a millimeter or two of the implant settling into the bone. There may even be bone growth around the edges of the implant up onto the implant. This is a self-limited process and is most commonly associated with smaller facial implants, most commonly standard chin implants. This is not a biologic process that is usually seen in much larger implants like wrap around jawline implants or skull implants - probably because the larger size of the implant distributes the pressure of tissue displacement over a broader surface area.








Jaw Implant Bone Erosion - Plastic Surgeon | Dr. Barry L. Eppley, MD


Facial implant bone erosion is better referred to biologically as implant settling due to passive pressure release.




www.eppleyplasticsurgery.com


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## Wallenberg (Jun 13, 2022)

PapiMew said:


> View attachment 1730932
> View attachment 1730933
> View attachment 1730930
> 
> ...


Seems that bone erosion isn't a big deal when discussing custom implants. 

I will next get a CT scan of my face. Finally getting a jaw implant feels good.


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## madcap88 (Jun 13, 2022)

Yea @Wallenberg , I really don't think it is. I did ask Dr. Y about this, and he said in all of his years its never been an issue. I haven't heard of surgeons speaking of bone erosion as a problem. I think the main risk with implants is just getting the design right. Most of the bad results I've seen are from off-the-shelf implants (non-custom) or from surgeons who allow the patient to steer the design process (which we have no business doing, we don't have surgeon-level expertise). I think its a no-brainer that the only choice is custom, is saving an extra $3 - 6k really worth it if theres a high chance it won't fit right? Your already paying how much, right? Thats my opinion.


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## Wallenberg (Jun 13, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Yea @Wallenberg , I really don't think it is. I did ask Dr. Y about this, and he said in all of his years its never been an issue. I haven't heard of surgeons speaking of bone erosion as a problem. I think the main risk with implants is just getting the design right. Most of the bad results I've seen are from off-the-shelf implants (non-custom) or from surgeons who allow the patient to steer the design process (which we have no business doing, we don't have surgeon-level expertise). Thats my opinion.


What did Dr. Y think about medpor vs silicone?


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## madcap88 (Jun 13, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> What did Dr. Y think about medpor vs silicone?


@Wallenberg He mentioned that he has seen cases with silicone where the implant moves from it's initial location a bit. Hes also seen cases where patients regret going with silicone because they loved the design and wanted it to be 'permanent' without going through another procedure/recovery process. He mentioned some other things that related to 'bone erosion' I believe, but I do not fully recall. Dr. Y isn't some undercover embassador for Medpor so hes speaking from many years of experience. He also mentioned how earlier-on he let patients have more of a say, and they always came back with regret on their design amendments.

All that said, I do see how going with medpor may be a gamble given its more 'permanent' nature - design is all that more critical. BUT think about this.. Dr. Y's go-to is medpor, which means for the last 20+ years (or whatever its been) hes been going with that mostly. So, he would not have such a high-tier reputation if he 'missed' a decent amount on the design or at all. As I was saying, I have yet to see a 'Dr. Y miss/failure' on the web anywhere.


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## madcap88 (Jun 13, 2022)

PapiMew said:


> I’ve seen some Dr. Y designs where he gives the patient more freedom in the design process and they seem to always turn out a bit uncanny/comical. Although, I’ve also seen Dr. Y criticized for not giving the patient a few more mm’s when they asked and then later agreeing with the patient post-op that they could of used those extra mm’s 😅


@PapiMew Well, I guess its good I urged him to do 'natural, but better' without looking 'fake or plastic'. Also, using Toni Mahfud and Mario Rodriguez as references, that should get me within range or at the right size. Those 2 guys are the ideal for my phenotype imo. I prefer Dr. Y since I know getting botched is off the table.


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## MrRubiks (Jun 13, 2022)

Infras should be more horizontal, and the jaw shouldn't be that straight imo. Jaw might be a little too wide too.


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## madcap88 (Jun 26, 2022)

*3 1/2 week update: *Substantial swelling in all implant sites, especially jaw angles and cheeks (due to swelling draining down from malar implant area - creates a bloated/fat appearance). Brusing under eyearea is still present. Current state of jaw swelling creates impression that jaw width is too wide - though certain this may be swelling since the perceived effect does not match design (lining up of outer zygo edge & jaw). Paranasal implant swelling also adds to the lower cheek swelling which makes it impossible to see any malar definition / implant results there. Essentially the draining malar swelling (due to gravity) and paranasal implant-produced swelling have made my lower cheek area (both sides of nose) SUPER swollen. I do have THICK skin, so I anticipate swelling to take longer to resolve. @Wallenberg @PapiMew 

*MALAR/CHEEKBONES/INFRAORBITAL:* Don't seem too large at all. Looked WAY too large earlier in swelling, but not anymore. 

*JAW/MANDIBLE: *Jaw width may be a tad wide (~10% too wide), but that could be swelling. If needed will get implant shaved down by Dr. Y. 

*PARANASAL:* Pretty good

*CHIN: *Chin projection not as much as desired. May be perceived effect due to swelling in other areas. Dr. Y said he can design a extension module for the implant to add more projection (anyone else familiar with this? There is SO little info out there about any of these things), IF thats needed.

Summary: 
Still substantial swelling and too early to call anything. Anyone familiar with swelling timelines?


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## Wallenberg (Jun 26, 2022)

Jaw being a bit too wide (10%) doesn't sound too bad. As you said, it can be swelling, so maybe it goes down. Also, I think it's better to have a slightly too wide jaw than too narrow, but everyone has different faces. 

Are you otherwise happy so far @madcap88 ?


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## madcap88 (Jun 26, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Jaw being a bit too wide (10%) doesn't sound too bad. As you said, it can be swelling, so maybe it goes down. Also, I think it's better to have a slightly too wide jaw than too narrow, but everyone has different faces.
> 
> Are you otherwise happy so far @madcap88 ?


@Wallenberg Aside from swelling, absolutely. I would be surprised if jaw width doesn't go down around 10% over the course of recovery, especially having thick skin. Even with swelling - jawline is kickass, the square chin really makes a difference - no roundness to my lower-third anymore. Plus, in the case I need a bit of reduction, he can always shave it down a bit, and that procedure has a much shorter recovery. Also, since a module can be added for the chin I definitely will not get anything removed. No pain or anything.


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## Wallenberg (Jun 26, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg Aside from swelling, absolutely. I would be surprised if jaw width doesn't go down around 10% over the course of recovery, especially having thick skin. Even with swelling - jawline is kickass, the square chin really makes a difference - no roundness to my lower-third anymore. Plus, in the case I need a bit of reduction, he can always shave it down a bit, and that procedure has a much shorter recovery. Also, since a module can be added for the chin I definitely will not get anything removed. No pain or anything.


Good stuff! Keep us updated.


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## zeek (Jun 26, 2022)

You are still very early in healing. Two more months then judge. But keep us updated!


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## chip (Jul 17, 2022)

How is everything looking? @madcap88


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## Blackgymmax (Jul 17, 2022)

looked pretty good to me. dr y pretty much always gives decent results and its better to undershoot than overshoot


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## Blackgymmax (Jul 17, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Jaw being a bit too wide (10%) doesn't sound too bad. As you said, it can be swelling, so maybe it goes down. Also, I think it's better to have a slightly too wide jaw than too narrow, but everyone has different faces.
> 
> Are you otherwise happy so far @madcap88 ?


no, a jaw too wide basically destroys you. too wide can basically bring you into low tier normie zone lol. looking normal but ugly is ALWAYS better than comical and over the ideal


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## madcap88 (Jul 17, 2022)

@chip @Wallenberg

*WRAPAROUND JAW: *
Been 6 1/2 weeks since surgery - jaw still a bit wider than cheekbones (i.e. bigonial width > bizygomatic width). Not sure if it is swelling, I can feel the angles and they are hard to the touch. Meeting with Dr. Y in 2 weeks to determine options, may have wraparound implant shaved down. Both gonians flare out a tad too much. Head doesn't match my body. Excessive width seriously kills my appearance. Plenty of improvement on definition and angularity, exactly what I wanted there - just TOO wide.

Additionally, one gonion (thus side of jaw) is about an inch farther out on my head and further up than the other side. This side of the jaw covers up most of my ear. Makes jaw asymmetric and look wider on both sides. This is obvious from the back of my head and when in motion. Also meeting with Dr. Y to resolve this. Not sure what happened.

*CHEEKBONES / MALAR IMPLANTS:*
In terms of cheekbones, midface area is too swollen for me to see them at all. Entire cheek area below implants / side of nose is too swollen and entirely hides shape of implant. Given that swelling, midface just looks extremely bloated. That may also be affecting how the jaws perceived. I'm ~11% bodyfat so its not that. Assume too early to call, and thick skin may not be helping.

*CHIN, PARANASALS:*
Chin looks great (no need for stacked implant at all), and the paranasals seem good too.

*The Ideal Steps Forward:*
Ideally I assume he can _*A)*_ fix the problematic wraparound side by shaving that side of the jaw down without compromising definition/angularity. Then, *B*_*)* _I wait couple more months (6-8) for swelling to go down since I have thick skin, and finally _*C)*_ he shaves both sides of wraparound and cheekbones down to needed / harmonious widths.

*Big things here are:*
1) How can the one side be fixed? (thats a surgical error I assume)
2) Can the wraparound be shaved down enough to achieve appropriate width? (~3mm?)
3) Would shaving down reduce angularity (very bad)?
4) Will shaving down jaw require shaving down of cheekbones to keep in harmony? (probably)

5) Do I have to get them replaced? Does that mean another 15-25k?
6) Due to them being medpor, does waiting to get replaced cause a big issue?

Two roads. One where shaving of implants (wraparound and malars) resolves it. OR the second, where the wraparound jaw has to be removed AND replaced, and the malars shaved down. I prefer Road 1 if that works, who wouldn't.


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## Improver (Jul 17, 2022)

What's the chin width?
Also, not sure if shaving the jaw implant will solve it or just leave you with a more rounded/bloated face.
My thought is that the width your are noticing doesn't come from the implant's width, but from your masseter muscle being pushed too outwards, it happened to me too and I had to redesign the gonial angle area with a more concave shape


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## madcap88 (Jul 17, 2022)

Improver said:


> What's the chin width?
> Also, not sure if shaving the jaw implant will solve it or just leave you with a more rounded/bloated face.
> My thought is that the width your are noticing doesn't come from the implant's width, but from your masseter muscle being pushed too outwards, it happened to me too and I had to redesign the gonial angle area with a more concave shape


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## looksmaxxed (Jul 17, 2022)

implants suck. get osteotomies


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## Improver (Jul 17, 2022)

@madcap88 can't see ur quoted post


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## chip (Jul 17, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chip @Wallenberg
> 
> *WRAPAROUND JAW: *
> Been 6 1/2 weeks since surgery - jaw still a bit wider than cheekbones (i.e. bigonial width > bizygomatic width). Not sure if it is swelling, I can feel the angles and they are hard to the touch. Meeting with Dr. Y in 2 weeks to determine options, may have wraparound implant shaved down. Both gonians flare out a tad too much. Head doesn't match my body. Excessive width seriously kills my appearance. Plenty of improvement on definition and angularity, exactly what I wanted there - just TOO wide.
> ...


Swelling is probably distorting everything a ton. I also have thick skin and swelling from orthognathic surgery took a year to subside to where you couldn’t tell something was off.

Be patient and try to look at things from only an anatomical POV right now, especially before re-opening yourself up and having even more swelling. I think your cheeks will be really good.


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## madcap88 (Jul 17, 2022)

chip said:


> Swelling is probably distorting everything a ton. I also have thick skin and swelling from orthognathic surgery took a year to subside to where you couldn’t tell something was off.
> 
> Be patient and try to look at things from only an anatomical POV right now, especially before re-opening yourself up and having even more swelling. I think your cheeks will be really good.





chip said:


> Swelling is probably distorting everything a ton. I also have thick skin and swelling from orthognathic surgery took a year to subside to where you couldn’t tell something was off.
> 
> Be patient and try to look at things from only an anatomical POV right now, especially before re-opening yourself up and having even more swelling. I think your cheeks will be really good.





Improver said:


> What's the chin width?
> Also, not sure if shaving the jaw implant will solve it or just leave you with a more rounded/bloated face.
> My thought is that the width your are noticing doesn't come from the implant's width, but from your masseter muscle being pushed too outwards, it happened to me too and I had to redesign the gonial angle area with a more concave shape


@Improver Chin width is 29.4mm. Not sure about that concavity, since that one side is the side that is substantially farther out than the other. Its not swelling because its hard, plus its shifted up further than other side. Wondering if that side is too far out on design and should have been closer to the 8.8mm of other side - it's also further out along cheekbone.

Doesn't seem like the fact that there's more soft tissue/muscle in jaw than cheekbone area was even factored into design. Frustrated because I had discussion after discussion with Dr. Y and he urged the bizygomatic width would indeed be larger (which it's not at all). The current bigonial width is wider than my top facial third as well, really not good. Not sure if Dr. Y is even the one who designs because all the questions and discussions we had dont seem to be factored in. Dr. Y seems so quick to get the patient to stop talking, because hes so convinced he knows everything without even speaking or confirming with you. I mean, cant he just say an extra 2 sentences, why is that SO hard for him? Plus, it seems he may have designed jaw as if I was largely deficient - I wasnt recessed or anything, just needed angularity & definition.

@chip Yea, my guts telling me cheeks will be great. But the structural issue with the one side of jaw must be fixed - wondering how that may affect how cheekbones harmonize with current design. Dont believe jaw sidd issue is swelling. Anyways, my only 2 flaws (as confirmed by pro. raters) is slightly narrowing lower 3rd (which wraparound resolves) and undereye flatness (which infraorbital of cheekbone implants resolve) - so cant wait for this all to be straight.

BELOW are additional images of design.


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## Improver (Jul 17, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Improver Chin width is 29.4mm. Not sure about that concavity, since that one side is the side that is substantially farther out than the other. Its not swelling because its hard, plus its shifted up further than other side.
> 
> Doesn't seem like the fact that there's more soft tissue/muscle in jaw than cheekbone area was even factored into design. Frustrated because I had discussion after discussion with Dr. Y and he urged the bizygomatic width would indeed be larger (which it's not at all). The current bigonial width is wider than my top facial third as well, really not good. Not sure if Dr. Y is even the one who designs because all the questions and discussions we had dont seem to be factored in. Dr. Y seems so quick to get the patient to stop talking, because hes so convinced he knows everything without even speaking or confirming with you. I mean, cant he just say an extra 2 sentences, why is that SO hard for him? Plus, it seems he may have designed jaw as if I was largely deficient - I wasnt recessed or anything, just needed angularity & definition.
> 
> @chip Yea, my guts telling me cheeks will be great. But the structural issue with the one side of jaw must be fixed. Dont believe its swelling. Anyways, my only 2 flaws (as confirmed by pro. raters) is slightly narrowing lower 3rd (which wraparound resolves) and undereye flatness (which infraorbital of cheekbone implants resolve) - so cant wait for this all to be straight.


You probably have some swelling left but not more than 10% of it by 6 weeks, so it should decrease a bit more. About the asymmetry, it could be several things imo: malposition, asymmetric design, swelling, muscle spam post recent surgery, etc
Is the left side the bigger one?


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## madcap88 (Jul 17, 2022)

Improver said:


> You probably have some swelling left but not more than 10% of it by 6 weeks, so it should decrease a bit more. About the asymmetry, it could be several things imo: malposition, asymmetric design, swelling, muscle spam post recent surgery, etc
> Is the left side the bigger one?


It's my left side. On the design (from front view) the side that's 10mm+ of projection.

Yea, so I'm not sure less than 10% reduction by swelling is gonna bring the jaw width where it needs to be. I'm thinking they made an error during surgery OR he overestimated on the design. I noticed it within a week after the surgery, and waited to see if it resolved (which it didnt).

Dont think I should have to pay for an error he made during surgery or subpar design given he said it wouldn't after I discussed with him multiple times.


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## Wallenberg (Jul 18, 2022)

Can you post your jaw? Maybe eyes covered or only the jaw without forehead and eyes?


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## MrRubiks (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @CristianT, my implants are medpor. I didn't want to go with silicone because of the bone erosion and unwanted movement I have heard of.


Smart tbh


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## MrRubiks (Jul 18, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Bone erosion should be limited and I'm not sure if it is limited to silicone.


From what I've seen, bone resorption from silicone implants has no cap. It seems to continue indefinitely. By contrast, PEEK causes no bone resorption. It's also stronger, and it has no step-off.


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Can you post your jaw? Maybe eyes covered or only the jaw without forehead and eyes?


@Wallenberg 

Here's a picture. Camera distortion stretches face length and reduces width. Not representative of actual size unfortunately.


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## Wallenberg (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg
> 
> Here's a picture. Camera distortion stretches face length and reduces width. Not representative of actual size unfortunately.
> 
> View attachment 1784691


The right side looks good; the left is a bit too wide. Care to post a similar before pic?


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## chip (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg
> 
> Here's a picture. Camera distortion stretches face length and reduces width. Not representative of actual size unfortunately.
> 
> View attachment 1784691


The malar implants are going to look really good. I do agree the jaw is too wide but the asymmetry doesn’t look abnormal, at least in this pic.


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## Wallenberg (Jul 18, 2022)

chip said:


> The malar implants are going to look really good. I do agree the jaw is too wide but the asymmetry doesn’t look abnormal, at least in this pic.


Yeah, to be honest, it's not that bad. In real life / in motion, it doesn't look as bad. Of course, it's not optimal, but it's not a horrible result, IMO.


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Yeah, to be honest, it's not that bad. In real life / in motion, it doesn't look as bad. Of course, it's not optimal, but it's not a horrible result, IMO.


@Wallenberg Yea, that wider side is the side I was referring to earlier that from back of head it's obvious. (Think phone mirrored image) Also, there's a before in beginning of thread 

So, does it seem width could come down with the swelling? If it was further in than the zygos it'd be great. If not, wondering if shaving down or replacing wraparound is best route.

@chip Yea, I can see the ogee curve whenever lights are directly above. Agree those are likely gonna be great. Just shame about the jaw width.


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## chip (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg Yea, that wider side is the side I was referring to earlier that from back of head it's obvious. (Think phone mirrored image) Also, there's a before in beginning of thread
> 
> So, does it seem width could come down with the swelling? If it was further in than the zygos it'd be great. If not, wondering if shaving down or replacing wraparound is best route.
> 
> @chip Yea, I can see the ogee curve whenever lights are directly above. Agree those are likely gonna be great. Just shame about the jaw width.


On the bright side, it’s a much better scenario to have an unsatisfactory jaw implant than malar implants. The soft tissue responds much better to a removal/revision, should you entertain that option.


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

chip said:


> On the bright side, it’s a much better scenario to have an unsatisfactory jaw implant than malar implants. The soft tissue responds much better to a removal/revision, should you entertain that option.


@chip Any thoughts on Chin Width? Anything else besides the excessive width in gonial area?

Also @Wallenberg here's another before pic.
.


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## chip (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chip Any thoughts on Chin Width? Anything else besides the excessive width in gonial area?
> 
> Also @Wallenberg here's another before pic.
> .
> View attachment 1784726


I was going to say, the chin looks narrow in comparison to the jaw width. I’d say the biggest factor for telling if the jaw is too wide is it if looks wrong in comparison to your neck.


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## MrRubiks (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg
> 
> Here's a picture. Camera distortion stretches face length and reduces width. Not representative of actual size unfortunately.
> 
> View attachment 1784691


Difficult to determine symmetry with so many anatomical landmarks obscured.


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

chip said:


> I was going to say, the chin looks narrow in comparison to the jaw width. I’d say the biggest factor for telling if the jaw is too wide is it if looks wrong in comparison to your neck.


Yea, definitely a bit too wide for neck. Was considering in case of revision having Chin Width increased with reducing jaw width.

@Wallenberg Another before


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

@Wallenberg Any thoughts on improvement for a revision?


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## zeek (Jul 18, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> From what I've seen, bone resorption from silicone implants has no cap. It seems to continue indefinitely. By contrast, PEEK causes no bone resorption. It's also stronger, and it has no step-off.


You are retarded. Every implant will cause an imprint.


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## Birdcell (Jul 18, 2022)

Imagine paying for cheekbones when you could have been born chechen


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

45 angle post pics. Malar curve and prominence more visible.


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## Erik-Jón (Jul 18, 2022)

Fuck bro your ascend so hard and mog my incel ass, fuck bro I’m proud of ya


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## Wallenberg (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg Any thoughts on improvement for a revision?


It depends on your budget and how willing you are to get it revised. I would be happy with your results, albeit the left side isn't optimal.


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> It depends on your budget and how willing you are to get it revised. I would be happy with your results, albeit the left side isn't optimal.


@Wallenberg $$ is not an issue. Yes, the left side is too wide. Plus, even with that matching, both sides could be less wide.

I don't know if Chin width increase would be needed if the jaw width is brought down. Wondering if Dr. Y would discount it since he messed up.

So nothing else to modify outside widths in your opinion? @Wallenberg


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## Wallenberg (Jul 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg $$ is not an issue. Yes, the left side is too wide. Plus, even with that matching, both sides could be less wide.
> 
> I don't know if Chin width increase would be needed if the jaw width is brought down.
> 
> So nothing else to modify outside widths in your opinion? @Wallenberg


I think the only thing that needs work is the left side. It could be a tad less wide. I think the right side isn't too wide?


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## madcap88 (Jul 18, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> I think the only thing that needs work is the left side. It could be a tad less wide. I think the right side isn't too wide?


@Wallenberg If I cover up that side of my face in the mirror it looks good. If that problematic side matched + the additional ~10% reduction as healing completes, could end up looking great & spot on. Plus, when the cheekbones come through swelling, jaw will be less prominent as well. Bringing it all together into harmony. Hard to tell with midface still so swollen. Do the cheekbones look too big at all atm?

Depends on how Dr. Y says he can resolve that side. If he can shave it down, I'll wait for it all to completely heal before I get revision. If shaving won't do the trick, then I have to get revision. Just concerned about time factor with more Medpor ingrowth.


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## MrRubiks (Jul 19, 2022)

zeek said:


> You are retarded. Every implant will cause an imprint.


Not the same thing. You're conflating natural remodeling with erosion/resorption. Not very smart.


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## zeek (Jul 19, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Not the same thing. You're conflating natural remodeling with erosion/resorption. Not very smart.


Looks like we got another retard, folks!

The commenter I replied to said PEEK caused “no bone resorption.” Imprinting is a limited form of bone resorption.

“Natural remodeling” as you foolishly called it is still bone resoprtion. Bone is living tissue dumb fuck, it is always remodeling.

If you have nothing useful to add then fuck off faggot!


----------



## zeek (Jul 19, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> 45 angle post pics. Malar curve and prominence more visible.
> 
> View attachment 1785683
> 
> View attachment 1785684


Looks good. Definitely some swelling in the midface but will continue to give definition.


----------



## MrRubiks (Jul 19, 2022)

zeek said:


> Looks like we got another retard, folks!
> 
> The commenter I replied to said PEEK caused “no bone resorption.” Imprinting is a limited form of bone resorption.
> 
> ...


Bone is constantly being remodeled from osteoblasts and osteoclasts (resorption and formation), that's true. But I'm referring to erosion, such as obvious pitting from a silicone implant. This is not the same thing. I didn't expect to have to hold your hand on this. 

Also, work on your communication. The keyboard warrior isn't a good look for anybody. Speak to people here how you would speak to them in person.


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## zeek (Jul 19, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Bone is constantly being remodeled from osteoblasts and osteoclasts (resorption and formation), that's true. But I'm referring to erosion, such as obvious pitting from a silicone implant. This is not the same thing. I didn't expect to have to hold your hand on this.
> 
> Also, work on your communication. The keyboard warrior isn't a good look for anybody. Speak to people here how you would speak to them in person.


Thank you for explaining how I am correct. Now cope. Dumb bitch. Turned ignore on.


----------



## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

@Truemaxxer @Wallenberg @chip @zeek Some more posts with less camera distortion for more accurate width. Wraparounds pretty big on face.


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## CristianT (Jul 20, 2022)

Personally, I don't like it. Maybe its swelling but the result overall is too bulky and kinda looks fake. Seems that Yaremchuck provides these kinds of results. I am sure now that he is out of my equation.

For example this is what I like:






It was achieved with small implants for angularity.

Small implants mog if designed correctly tbh. Concavity, flares on the gonials are so important.


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## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

CristianT said:


> Personally, I don't like it. Maybe its swelling but the result overall is too bulky and kinda looks fake. Seems that Yaremchuck provides these kinds of results. I am sure now that he is out of my equation.
> 
> For example this is what I like:
> 
> ...


Hey @CristianT , I totally agree. It's just TOO much hardware. I wanted angularity & definition - I had rounded jawline before. But, it seems he went WAY overboard with the size as if I was mega-recessed or something before. 

Have considered going to someone else for removal or revision. Outside of Eppley don't know of anyone. I will only go the implant route. Any recs, thoughts? @CristianT


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## CristianT (Jul 20, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Hey @CristianT , I totally agree. It's just TOO much hardware. I wanted angularity & definition - I had rounded jawline before. But, it seems he went WAY overboard with the size as if I was mega-recessed or something before.
> 
> Have considered going to someone else for removal or revision. Outside of Eppley don't know of anyone. I will only go the implant route. Any recs, thoughts? @CristianT


Well, I went to Pagnoni so I need to go back again to him because MAYBE he will make a discount as I'm going for a revision...

Now I know what I want, my issue was that the angularity is not there also implants are too small. I need the implants to be a tad bit bigger(NOT too much bigger). But I need to make sure I will have concavity and the flaring on the gonials it is acute or pronounced. Right now it's too soft.

It seems that it is hard to nail the implants from first time...

You needed a design something like this @madcap88






Look how the gonials are flaring, it has concavity and the parts which are connecting are not just straight. What I mean is this -->






Where your implants have a straight line which give this impression of bulkiness


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## MrRubiks (Jul 20, 2022)

zeek said:


> Thank you for explaining how I am correct. Now cope. Dumb bitch. Turned ignore on.


You're either trolling or just have an incredibly low IQ. I'm not trying to argue with you. I just don't like the spread of misinformation. Other users may not know.


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## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

CristianT said:


> Well, I went to Pagnoni so I need to go back again to him because MAYBE he will make a discount as I'm going for a revision...
> 
> Now I know what I want, my issue was that the angularity is not there also implants are too small. I need the implants to be a tad bit bigger(NOT too much bigger). But I need to make sure I will have concavity and the flaring on the gonials it is acute or pronounced. Right now it's too soft.
> 
> ...





CristianT said:


> Well, I went to Pagnoni so I need to go back again to him because MAYBE he will make a discount as I'm going for a revision...
> 
> Now I know what I want, my issue was that the angularity is not there also implants are too small. I need the implants to be a tad bit bigger(NOT too much bigger). But I need to make sure I will have concavity and the flaring on the gonials it is acute or pronounced. Right now it's too soft.
> 
> ...





CristianT said:


> View attachment 1787399
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Big thing with that post pic you shared is the higher gonians and wider Chin. I'm going a bit more for Toni Mahfud aesthetic. BUT what Dr. Y did was give me Mahfud's jaw + an implant ontop. WAY TOO much


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## Truemaxxer (Jul 20, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Truemaxxer @Wallenberg @chip @zeek Some more posts with less camera distortion for more accurate width. Wraparounds pretty big on face.
> 
> View attachment 1787333
> View attachment 1787334


as you alteady know yourself the result looks too bulky especially for your temples and the rest of your facial structure (need to see them clearly ofc to be sure but its a pretty clear picture) jaw should have been a little less wide and the gonion points a bit lowered + more flare out as others have stated


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## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

Truemaxxer said:


> as you alteady know yourself the result looks too bulky especially for your temples and the rest of your facial structure (need to see them clearly ofc to be sure but its a pretty clear picture) jaw should have been a little less wide and the gonion points a bit lowered + more flare out as others have stated


Think lowering gonians would be worse and make it even more bulky. In person, gonians are a good amount below mouth and the flare is pronounced. Camera distortion doesn't help


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## Truemaxxer (Jul 20, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Think lowering gonians would be worse and make it even more bulky. In person, gonians are a good amount below mouth and the flare is pronounced. Camera distortion doesn't help


yeehh just saw the design and your befores you already lowered them quite a bit 
I think the witdh of them are just giving another picture

So what are you planning to do now with them


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## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

Truemaxxer said:


> yeehh just saw the design and your befores you already lowered them quite a bit
> I think the witdh of them are just giving another picture
> 
> So what are you planning to do now with them


@Truemaxxer Meeting with Dr. Y next Friday to see if he can shave it down appropriately. I assume this may also require shaving down malars to match, since malars were also made to go with this bigger jaw.

Otherwise, guess both need to be replaced with new customs. If Dr. Y doesn't give a discount (which he should since he messed up the one wider sider and said it wouldn't be too big multiple times) maybe would go to someone else like Eppley


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## chip (Jul 20, 2022)

@madcap88 I honestly think the gonials are the only major issue.
Your malar implants were what? 3.5mm max projection? How significant of a difference has that made on your face in person? Good info for people reading this in the future.


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## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Truemaxxer Meeting with Dr. Y next Friday to see if he can shave it down appropriately. I assume this may also require shaving down malars to match, since malars were also made to





chip said:


> @madcap88 I honestly think the gonials are the only major issue.
> Your malar implants were what? 3.5mm max projection? How significant of a difference has that made on your face in person? Good info for people reading this in the future.


@chip ~5.5mm max projection on malars. Substantial difference, still can't fully see due to swelling.


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## chip (Jul 20, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chip ~5.5mm max projection on malars. Substantial difference, still can't fully see due to swelling.


But is it too much or are you happy with it so far? I’ve seen 3.5-4mm as a common amount of augmentation, but never 5.5.


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## madcap88 (Jul 20, 2022)

chip said:


> But is it too much or are you happy with it so far? I’ve seen 3.5-4mm as a common amount of augmentation, but never 5.5.


The design is in the first post. I can't tell yet due to swelling below the implants still. Doesn't seem to be too much, but would assume they would have to be reduced to match less wide jaw.


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## madcap88 (Jul 21, 2022)

@chip @Truemaxxer @Wallenberg Was able to see everything in a couple new places with better lighting. Too be frank, everything is enormously too big. I wouldn't recommend anyone getting near that level of augmentation EVER.

Need to get these removed and SIGNIFICANTLY shaved down or replaced ASAP. Given how large the difference is (it's apparent in these other lit environments) I think replacing with new customs is only option.

Whoevers reading this: DO NOT get a jaw or malar implant anywhere near the projection I got. You will regret it. If you don't have the funds to just go ahead and correct stuff like this, don't bother until you are. Too much risk.


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## CristianT (Jul 21, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chip @Truemaxxer @Wallenberg Was able to see everything in a couple new places with better lighting. Too be frank, everything is enormously too big. I wouldn't recommend anyone getting near that level of augmentation EVER.
> 
> Need to get these removed and SIGNIFICANTLY shaved down or replaced ASAP. Given how large the difference is (it's apparent in these other lit environments) I think replacing with new customs is only option.
> 
> Whoevers reading this: DO NOT get a jaw or malar implant anywhere near the projection I got. You will regret it. If you don't have the funds to just go ahead and correct stuff like this, don't bother until you are. Too much risk.


Have you talked with dr. Y?


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## madcap88 (Jul 21, 2022)

CristianT said:


> Have you talked with dr. Y?


@CristianT Meet with him next Friday. Last time I had met he acknowledged something was wrong without directly saying it, he said wait for swelling it will be fine. Felt he was trying to convince himself of it as well. He randomly starting bringing up how people fly from all over the world to fix botched surgeries from other surgeons - this was his Ego's defense mechanism. He is pretty arrogant and egotistical though - I don't really want to go back to him just because of that, but it's not as safe not so I assume.

I wonder if my CT scan (used to design implants) not having my top 3rd in it caused this to happen at all. Basically the designs only took my second and bottom facial 3rd into account. I doubt if it had all of my skull any surgeon would have ever thought this would look good.


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## CristianT (Jul 21, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @CristianT Meet with him next Friday. Last time I had met he acknowledged something was wrong without directly saying it, he said wait for swelling it will be fine. Felt he was trying to convince himself of it as well. He randomly starting bringing up how people fly from all over the world to fix botched surgeries from other surgeons - this was his Ego's defense mechanism. He is pretty arrogant and egotistical though - I don't really want to go back to him just because of that, but it's not as safe not so I assume.
> 
> I wonder if my CT scan (used to design implants) not having my top 3rd in it caused this to happen at all. Basically the designs only took my second and bottom facial 3rd into account. I doubt if it had all of my skull any surgeon would have ever thought this would look good.


Thats pretty typical. Surgeons who dont admit their mistakes. Denotes big ego and bad opinion overall about them.

In 1 of August i will also have the call with pagnoni to talk about my result. Show to him that nothing changed in my face. Im curious if he will admit that he was wrong

The design overall was bad. He didnt adapted to your face and needs. I think he has a template that he is using for every person.


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## madcap88 (Jul 21, 2022)

CristianT said:


> Thats pretty typical. Surgeons who dont admit their mistakes. Denotes big ego and bad opinion overall about them.
> 
> In 1 of August i will also have the call with pagnoni to talk about my result. Show to him that nothing changed in my face. Im curious if he will admit that he was wrong
> 
> The design overall was bad. He didnt adapted to your face and needs. I think he has a template that he is using for every person.


That's an interesting thought. Well, if thats the case I think Eppleys better by far given what I hear.

I honestly am glad it's not like we got one of the bone-cutting, moving surgeries and it turned out like this. At least we can get implants corrected


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## chip (Jul 21, 2022)

5.5mm malar implants ended up being way too big?

@madcap88


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## madcap88 (Jul 21, 2022)

chip said:


> 5.5mm malar implants ended up being way too big?
> 
> @madcap88


Absolutely. They are bigger than Toni's here.


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## chip (Jul 21, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Absolutely. They are bigger than Toni's here.
> 
> View attachment 1788985
> View attachment 1788986
> View attachment 1788987


Mind posting a before and after pic of that region on you?


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## bogii (Jul 21, 2022)

I feel sorry for you man, hopefully it will look better in the revision but imo you looked better before as for now. 

But its normal that you don't get implants right on the first try and money isn't a problem for you so you'll be fine


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## zeek (Jul 21, 2022)

It’s mostly good. Just a bit wide.

You can have a it reduced. Then your jaw will be less wide than cheeks. Good angularity overall.


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## chip (Jul 25, 2022)

Post updated pics if you can. Let’s see how they look as swelling goes down.


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## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

Another surgeon said they also felt the implants were too wide - jaw and neck ratio is very much out of harmony they said.


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## eyebagcel (Jul 26, 2022)

fuck yaremchuk that old delirious shitter has lost his touch


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## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

eyebagcel said:


> fuck yaremchuk that old delirious shitter has lost his touch


Yup. I'm honestly shocked this happened coming from him - how the hell did he get well-known for this? Is he really just THAT out of it now??

Again, outside of Eppley don't know of any others to do revision & replace with new customs. If anyone knows of others please say


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## Wallenberg (Jul 26, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Another surgeon said they also felt the implants were too wide - jaw and neck ratio is very much out of harmony they said.


Isn't the problem only the right jaw?


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## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Isn't the problem only the right jaw?


@Wallenberg No, the jaws much too wide in general and the Malar/zygos are much too big. I have been getting many negative comments from people I am meeting for first time and people who have seen me, etc. People I don't even know asking if I'm okay.

Everyone says same thing - why is your head so big? Why does your jaw look like that? What's wrong with your cheeks? There's something sticking out/protruding at the bottom of your face, what is that? There's a pointy thing at your jaw, are you okay? Soo many comments revolving around excessive size and Dr. Y's surgical /design error with the one side.

Curious how he's going to respond when I tell him.


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## zeek (Jul 26, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg No, the jaws much too wide in general and the Malar/zygos are much too big. I have been getting many negative comments from people I am meeting for first time and people who have seen me, etc. People I don't even know asking if I'm okay.
> 
> Everyone says same thing - why is your head so big? Why does your jaw look like that? What's wrong with your cheeks? There's something sticking out/protruding at the bottom of your face, what is that? There's a pointy thing at your jaw, are you okay? Soo many comments revolving around excessive size and Dr. Y's surgical /design error with the one side.
> 
> Curious how he's going to respond when I tell him.


When is your follow up? 

Can you post more zygo pics? 

Generally 12 weeks then safe to fully judge with swelling subsided.

One Dr Y patient on here got 3.5 and 5.5 and wanted 2mm more. Another said you need 7 if you want a big change and said Dr Y nailed it.

Perhaps you have too much or too much surface coverage on the lower part of your cheek but your actual augmentation is about medium as far as projections go.


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## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

zeek said:


> When is your follow up?
> 
> Can you post more zygo pics?
> 
> ...


@zeek The design is in the original post. In your opinion is there too much lower coverage?

Followup is on Friday

Maybe it's because my cheeks weren't as bad as a lot of people getting these surgeries. So that just pushes it too far then

Do you have the links to those posts?


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## chemosh (Jul 26, 2022)

Brutal, id be doing neck exercises 2 times everyday and megabulk. Fixing your neck takes away a little of the disproportion of the implants on your face


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## chemosh (Jul 26, 2022)

I mean its hard to carry a giga masculine face on a tiny body. It will probably look off as in your case seems like.


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## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

chemosh said:


> Brutal, id be doing neck exercises 2 times everyday and megabulk. Fixing your neck takes away a little of the disproportion of the implants on your face


@chemosh Totally agree on neck workouts. We'll see what Dr. Y says on Friday about reduction. Might try the shaving down implant route if it's significantly cheaper, can't hurt to try before removing & replacing.

If I bulk up a ton I'm still going to have additional mass on my face, so yea ugh


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## chemosh (Jul 26, 2022)

Look, to me it looks passable as in, close to natural looking


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## chemosh (Jul 26, 2022)

I cant see the hair part to see how it fits your forehead and hair. But does not look bad to me.


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## chemosh (Jul 26, 2022)

I think you should first get on the weight/ leaness of the guys you are after and then only after that chance your face to fit it


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## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

chemosh said:


> I think you should first get on the weight/ leaness of the guys you are after and then only after that chance your face to fit it


@chemosh @Wallenberg @zeek Heres a pic with upper third visible


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## Wallenberg (Jul 26, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg No, the jaws much too wide in general and the Malar/zygos are much too big. I have been getting many negative comments from people I am meeting for first time and people who have seen me, etc. People I don't even know asking if I'm okay.
> 
> Everyone says same thing - why is your head so big? Why does your jaw look like that? What's wrong with your cheeks? There's something sticking out/protruding at the bottom of your face, what is that? There's a pointy thing at your jaw, are you okay? Soo many comments revolving around excessive size and Dr. Y's surgical /design error with the one side.
> 
> Curious how he's going to respond when I tell him.


I don't know about malars or zygos; I'm only interested in jaw angles. So do you think that the right jaw angle is a problem too?


----------



## madcap88 (Jul 26, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> I don't know about malars or zygos; I'm only interested in jaw angles. So do you think that the right jaw angle is a problem too?


Yea, most of the negative comments are regarding that right jaw angle. 

Also, for reference Eppley ballparked a revision at $50k


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## chip (Jul 27, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Yea, most of the negative comments are regarding that right jaw angle.
> 
> Also, for reference Eppley ballparked a revision at $50k


Because they are medpor? Afaik, Eppley is about the same as Y for total cost of new malar + jaw implants, maybe slightly more.


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## chip (Jul 27, 2022)

Also, to me the cheekbones look decent already and there’s still probably a ton of swelling. To be honest, if you already had okay cheekbones then 5.5mm could definitely have put you overboard but it looks like it will be okay.


----------



## Wallenberg (Jul 27, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Yea, most of the negative comments are regarding that right jaw angle.
> 
> Also, for reference Eppley ballparked a revision at $50k


Sorry, I meant the left jaw. The right jaw is clearly too wide. But do people also comment on the left jaw?


----------



## chemosh (Jul 27, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chemosh @Wallenberg @zeek Heres a pic with upper third visible


Neckmax my bro, it will take away the uncaniness. You can lose fat later


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## madcap88 (Jul 27, 2022)

chemosh said:


> I think you should first get on the weight/ leaness of the guys you are after and then only after that chance your face to fit it


@chemosh Heres the thing - I'm below 7% bodyfat. I weigh over 180. I'm far from overweight and am very lean already


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## madcap88 (Jul 31, 2022)

@Wallenberg @chip saw Dr. Y and he offered to resolve the side with too high & wide gonian, as well as trim down both jaw sides to reduce width and trim malars. Scheduled the op for in next couple weeks.

However, given the rate at which I am seeing swelling reduce (even within last 1.5 weeks major difference) I think it would be best to only have him fix the problematic jaw side for now and then wait for all swelling to subside so that I have a complete picture and needed information. Then if things need to be trimmed in 5-7 months, he can more effectively do it. There's no way to tell how swelling is effecting jaw width & cheekbone size. I also have thick skin, so I can't go off of the standard timetable people speak of. I don't want to be premature and remove something I later want when swelling resolves.

So yea, think best thing is for him to fix the shifted and excessively too wide gonian/jaw side. Think it's bad to change too many variables so soon before swelling resolves. When the Malar definition comes in, the jaw shouldn't look as big either. Waiting ensures that the end results are gonna be within range of the ideal, just have to wait a bit longer so whole pictures there. Thoughts?


----------



## Wallenberg (Jul 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg @chip saw Dr. Y and he offered to resolve the side with too high & wide gonian, as well as trim down both jaw sides to reduce width and trim malars. Scheduled the op for in next couple weeks.
> 
> However, given the rate at which I am seeing swelling reduce (even within last 1.5 weeks major difference) I think it would be best to only have him fix the problematic jaw side for now and then wait for all swelling to subside so that I have a complete picture and needed information. Then if things need to be trimmed in 5-7 months, he can more effectively do it. There's no way to tell how swelling is effecting jaw width & cheekbone size. I also have thick skin, so I can't go off of the standard timetable people speak of. I don't want to be premature and remove something I later want when swelling resolves.
> 
> So yea, think best thing is for him to fix the shifted and excessively too wide gonian/jaw side. Think it's bad to change too many variables so soon before swelling resolves. When the Malar definition comes in, the jaw shouldn't look as big either. Thoughts?


I agree. How much do you have to pay for the reoperation?


----------



## madcap88 (Jul 31, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> I agree. How much do you have to pay for the reoperation?


Only facility fees. But I assume that increases based on how much total surgery time it takes. I don't think the fees were that big tbh first time around. They tell me after the operation, so it obviously isn't that much. So $ wise it would make little difference splitting it up into 2 surgeries.


----------



## Wallenberg (Jul 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Only facility fees. But I assume that increases based on how much total surgery time it takes. I don't think the fees were that big tbh first time around. They tell me after the operation, so it obviously isn't that much. So $ wise it would make little difference splitting it up into 2 surgeries.


How much are facility fees?


----------



## madcap88 (Jul 31, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> How much are facility fees?


Not sure. I'm calling Monday to segment into 2 surgeries, and get ballpark costs. Don't believe it's a lot tbh

I think all of this is case-by-case basis. Varies per patients situation, what's required to resolve


----------



## chip (Jul 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @Wallenberg @chip saw Dr. Y and he offered to resolve the side with too high & wide gonian, as well as trim down both jaw sides to reduce width and trim malars. Scheduled the op for in next couple weeks.
> 
> However, given the rate at which I am seeing swelling reduce (even within last 1.5 weeks major difference) I think it would be best to only have him fix the problematic jaw side for now and then wait for all swelling to subside so that I have a complete picture and needed information. Then if things need to be trimmed in 5-7 months, he can more effectively do it. There's no way to tell how swelling is effecting jaw width & cheekbone size. I also have thick skin, so I can't go off of the standard timetable people speak of. I don't want to be premature and remove something I later want when swelling resolves.
> 
> So yea, think best thing is for him to fix the shifted and excessively too wide gonian/jaw side. Think it's bad to change too many variables so soon before swelling resolves. When the Malar definition comes in, the jaw shouldn't look as big either. Waiting ensures that the end results are gonna be within range of the ideal, just have to wait a bit longer so whole pictures there. Thoughts?


Smart and I think you will end up very satisfied. Are you happy with the decision to use medpor?


----------



## madcap88 (Jul 31, 2022)

chip said:


> Smart and I think you will end up very satisfied. Are you happy with the decision to use medpor?


@chip Absolutely. I love being able to have Dr. Y just go in and trim as needed until it's ideal. I don't think that's the case with silicone or PEEK. Bypasses the issues that come along with an unideal design at first-go.


----------



## chip (Jul 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chip Absolutely. I love being able to have Dr. Y just go in and trim as needed until it's ideal. I don't think that's the case with silicone or PEEK. Bypasses the issues that come along with an unideal design at first-go.


Glad things are looking up. Please keep us updated with some progress pics! You are helping so many people.


----------



## madcap88 (Aug 11, 2022)

chip said:


> Glad things are looking up. Please keep us updated with some progress pics! You are helping so many people.


@chip @Wallenberg @chemosh @zeek

Deswelling on everything has accelerated - starting to stabilize now. Every few days it goes down a lot.

Also, the problematic too wide side is coming in and that too-high gonian actually is shifting down too. I am wondering if the masseter muscle on that side had more trauma and that is what's causing that side to be wider and high up. My guess is that it will resolve on its own.

Given this, I postponed my implant trimming procedure. Will get it shortly after New Years. I think it may infact all be effects of swelling/masseter trauma & healing. By then I may not even need a trimming at all. Let's see.


----------



## zeek (Aug 11, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> @chip @Wallenberg @chemosh @zeek
> 
> Deswelling on everything has accelerated - starting to stabilize now. Every few days it goes down a lot.
> 
> ...


 Worth waiting until you are sure definitely.

How are zygos looking?


----------



## madcap88 (Aug 11, 2022)

zeek said:


> Worth waiting until you are sure definitely.
> 
> How are zygos looking?


Pretty good! But still seems to be some swelling up around corner eye, etc.

Honestly, I'm thinking they will indeed be at just the right degree of Toni Mahfud/Mario Rodriguez-level malars for my face. Both those guys have above average/just before passing over into 'operated on' level cheekbones. That's what I want because honestly that's what looks more aesthetic. Too big, not thinking so. Also, the malars were designed to match the jaw, which seems might have actually been just right. 

If I had to estimate - they've gone down over 25% in last 2 weeks. So obviously coming down much more from here on out. No issue going out in public and already seeing looks. Could only get better from here. It's literally like right before I got them trimmed my face is like 'Wait. That might be a dumb idea.'


----------



## zeek (Aug 11, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Pretty good! But still seems to be some swelling up around corner eye, etc.
> 
> Honestly, I'm thinking they will indeed be at just the right degree of Toni Mahfud/Mario Rodriguez-level malars for my face. Both those guys have above average/just before passing over into 'operated on' level cheekbones. That's what I want because honestly that's what looks more aesthetic. Too big, not thinking so. Also, the malars were designed to match the jaw, which seems might have actually been just right.
> 
> If I had to estimate - they've gone down over 25% in last 2 weeks. So obviously coming down much more from here on out. No issue going out in public and already seeing looks. Could only get better from here. It's literally like right before I got them trimmed my face is like 'Wait. That might be a dumb idea.'


Yeah I think your results will be fine there. And that’s not an ideal area to revise either. The design looked good for what you wanted to accomplish so if you’re close enough take the win and move on.

Jaw is a little more complicated but wait to revise when you’re absolutely certain you want/need it.

If you can share a zygo update at some point would appreciate I’m looking to get the same thing from Dr Y.


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## madcap88 (Aug 11, 2022)

zeek said:


> Yeah I think your results will be fine there. And that’s not an ideal area to revise either. The design looked good for what you wanted to accomplish so if you’re close enough take the win and move on.
> 
> Jaw is a little more complicated but wait to revise when you’re absolutely certain you want/need it.
> 
> If you can share a zygo update at some point would appreciate I’m looking to get the same thing from Dr Y.


Yea I'll share some pics in a couple more weeks. The other side is already perfect on the jaw. Seems problematic side is just coming down slower - again think that masseter just had more trauma.

I would opt for Medpor. If it's not ideal first-try you can have them trimmed. Be very specific and detailed with Dr. Y regardless of how he acts, trust me.

Only thing I wish atm is that Dr. y would have refused to trim until after 6 months. That could have been a mistake


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## Wallenberg (Aug 11, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> I would opt for Medpor. If it's not ideal first-try you can have them trimmed. Be very specific and detailed with Dr. Y regardless of how he acts, trust me.


Info about this?


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## madcap88 (Aug 11, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> Info about this?


In my case when I was thinking the implants were too large and I met with Dr. Y he offered to trim them down as needed. From what I am aware, Medpor is more able to be refined and fine-tuned later on without requiring removal. This results in a SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper revision, more control over your results, and reduced recovery second time around.

Silicon can be recontoured as well, but I believe Medpor is slightly better for it, plus you got that tissue fixation for locked-in fit and no bone erosion like silicon.


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## chemosh (Aug 12, 2022)

Give us the pictures my brother we can’t eval otherwise


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## chip (Aug 21, 2022)

Mind posting updated pictures (of malar implants especially)? Hope everything is going well with your recovery.


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## madcap88 (Aug 22, 2022)

chip said:


> Mind posting updated pictures (of malar implants especially)? Hope everything is going well with your recovery.


Going well - but will wait for posting pics. Atm the malar implants seem asymmetric - one sides higher and more laterally projected. Potentially due to swelling, will post when clear.

To others its not perceivable unless their right up on me.


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## Wallenberg (Aug 22, 2022)

@madcap88 still can recommend Dr. Y? I'm interested in a jaw implant.


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## madcap88 (Aug 22, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> @madcap88 still can recommend Dr. Y? I'm interested in a jaw implant.


Its hard to say tbh. I'm kinda dissapointed by the fact that atm both the jaw and malar implants seem to have 1) assymetries or be 2) not entirely placed correctly. Both of those things seem to be the basics and easy things to not go wrong. I think you pay a premium for him and my experience says that it is not justified. Could more optimal results be achieved by a less famous surgeon - yea probably

He can resolve it with trimming/revision, but it still affects a good amount of time/my life.


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## Wallenberg (Aug 22, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Its hard to say tbh. I'm kinda dissapointed by the fact that atm both the jaw and malar implants seem to have 1) assymetries or be 2) not entirely placed correctly. Both of those things seem to be the basics and easy things to not go wrong. I think you pay a premium for him and my experience says that it is not justified. Could more optimal results be achieved by a less famous surgeon - yea probably
> 
> He can resolve it with trimming/revision, but it still affects a good amount of time/my life.


Did you consider other surgeons? If you did, who?


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

Any noticeable decrease in swelling?


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

chip said:


> Any noticeable decrease in swelling?


Definitely. Don't think the malars are too big. Asymmetries between both sides are resolving a bit every day. 

The excessive jaw implant side also seems to be resolving itself a little every day. At this rate, do think there's a chance everything may turn out perfect by January.

If the asymmetries are fully resolved I'd say results are perfect. Too early to fully call, but very optimistic giving how things have been changing.


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Definitely. Don't think the malars are too big. Asymmetries between both sides are resolving a bit every day.
> 
> The excessive jaw implant side also seems to be resolving itself a little every day. At this rate, do think there's a chance everything may turn out perfect by January.
> 
> If the asymmetries are fully resolved I'd say results are perfect. Too early to fully call, but very optimistic giving how things have been changing.


So you're thinking the implants were placed correctly by Yaremchuk and just the swelling was causing issues?
If so, that is great to hear. Were your cheekbones recessed before surgery? Difficult to gauge if 5.5mm is a lot, a little, or moderate.


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

chip said:


> So you're thinking the implants were placed correctly by Yaremchuk and just the swelling was causing issues?
> If so, that is great to hear. Were your cheekbones recessed before surgery? Difficult to gauge if 5.5mm is a lot, a little, or moderate.


Yea, I'm thinking they have been placed correctly and everything is swelling. I can see definition coming in and the lines seem to match up right with the design. So I'm assuming the rest of the designs definition will fall into place, if so it's basically perfect.

My cheekbones weren't recessed and I'd say they were above average. But for my particular face, I'd say 5.5 got me right at the model-level without going overboard and looking uncanny. It's very natural looking already, just 'better' than natural if you know what I mean. To those who say surgeries can't push you to that level of aesthetics, they have no clue. If your a HTN or Chadlite they absolutely can.

When / if the excessive jaw side comes down to match the good side the jaw is basically perfect too. The good side is already perfect - amazing how much better it makes you look.

If everything turns out symmetric, I'd say Dr. Y is freaking great


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Yea, I'm thinking they have been placed correctly and everything is swelling. I can see definition coming in and the lines seem to match up right with the design. So I'm assuming the rest of the designs definition will fall into place, if so it's basically perfect.
> 
> My cheekbones weren't recessed and I'd say they were above average. But for my particular face, I'd say 5.5 got me right at the model-level without going overboard and looking uncanny. It's very natural looking already, just 'better' than natural if you know what I mean. To those who say surgeries can't push you to that level of aesthetics, they have no clue. If your a HTN or Chadlite they absolutely can.
> 
> When / if the excessive jaw side comes down to match the good side the jaw is basically perfect too. If this happens I'd say Dr. Y is freaking great


Awesome dude. Happy for you.
Bottom lines at this point: would you recommend this procedure? Is 5.5mm a lot of augmentation? Do the implants affect facial animation i.e. look weird when smiling or off at all?


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

chip said:


> Awesome dude. Happy for you.
> Bottom lines at this point: would you recommend this procedure? Is 5.5mm a lot of augmentation? Do the implants affect facial animation i.e. look weird when smiling or off at all?


I see absolutely zero adverse effects on my facial animation/expressions.

Is 5.5mm a lot? It depends on the face, but I'd say I absolutely would not go larger for my case. If you look at the earlier pics of Toni from the 45 degree view I shared that's basically how far out they go. Just right atm.

Would I recommend? At the moment I'd say yes. Just stress to Dr. Y when you review the design everything needs to be symmetric. Look for issues in the design that may make that not the case. Really analyze the design and don't just go with it. If you do that I don't see how you can go wrong. Still don't see anyone but Eppley coming close


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> I see absolutely zero adverse effects on my facial animation/expressions.
> 
> Is 5.5mm a lot? It depends on the face, but I'd say I absolutely would not go larger for my case. If you look at the earlier pics of Toni from the 45 degree view I shared that's basically how far out they go. Just right atm.
> 
> Would I recommend? At the moment I'd say yes. Just stress to Dr. Y when you review the design everything needs to be symmetric. Look for issues in the design that may make that not the case. Really analyze the design and don't just go with it. If you do that I don't see how you can go wrong. Still don't see anyone but Eppley coming close


Dr Y. tends to design asymmetrically, i.e. 5mm on one side and 4mm on the other to “balance” the natural bone asymmetry. You’re saying to argue this? I’m also a bit skeptical myself.


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

Oh I didn't know that he designs like that. Does that mean they won't look symmetric, not exactly sure what you mean.

Question him about it and don't just go with it. Look at my original design post, you will probably be able to see the asymmetries I'm talking about


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Oh I didn't know that he designs like that. Does that mean they won't look symmetric, not exactly sure what you mean.
> 
> Question him about it and don't just go with it. Look at my original design post, you will probably be able to see the asymmetries I'm talking about


In my experience and on other designs I’ve seen by him (like @SurgerySoon ) there are intentional asymmetric projections between the sides. I guess its to create symmetry but it seems a little weird.


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

chip said:


> In my experience and on other designs I’ve seen by him (like @SurgerySoon ) there are intentional asymmetric projections between the sides. I guess its to create symmetry but it seems a little weird.


I don't understand that. Wouldn't that make it look off?


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

chip said:


> In my experience and on other designs I’ve seen by him (like @SurgerySoon ) there are intentional asymmetric projections between the sides. I guess its to create symmetry but it seems a little weird.


I looked at his results. Mine are definitely larger than that - I think I started with quite a better base than him. For my face anymore anterior or lateral projection would look weird/uncanny


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> I looked at his results. Mine are definitely larger than that - I think I started with quite a better base than him. For my face anymore anterior or lateral projection would look weird/uncanny


Even in the design, the ogee curve borders on uncanny. It seems like it will come out perfect though in terms of maximum viable projection, which gives a good idea of the upper limit. Post some pics when you feel comfortable!


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## madcap88 (Aug 31, 2022)

chip said:


> Even in the design, the ogee curve borders on uncanny. It seems like it will come out perfect though in terms of maximum viable projection, which gives a good idea of the upper limit. Post some pics when you feel comfortable!


So you mean based on my design it indeed looks like its right on the border before its too much?


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## chip (Aug 31, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> So you mean based on my design it indeed looks like its right on the border before its too much?


Just from looking at the ogee curve of the skull w/ implants, the way I’m picturing that in an actual face doesn’t seem uncanny but definitely very prominent, even striking.


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## Truemaxxer (Sep 1, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> So you mean based on my design it indeed looks like its right on the border before its too much?


will you post pictures since its getting better?


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## madcap88 (Sep 1, 2022)

Truemaxxer said:


> will you post pictures since its getting better?


Yes, but not yet. Giving time for asymmetries to resolve a bit more


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## madcap88 (Sep 1, 2022)

Also, the infraorbital portion of the malar implants DEFINITELY do raise the lower lid. For my case, I prefer that.


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## Swole bravo (Sep 13, 2022)

How is everything doing so far?


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## zeek (Sep 17, 2022)

@madcap88 hey brother how are things now? Can we get an update on progress?


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## madcap88 (Sep 18, 2022)

zeek said:


> @madcap88 hey brother how are things now? Can we get an update on progress?


MALARS: My right side malars implant is a bit too high and close to eye. Still has somewhat of the 'punched in face' look. This implant also doesn't project as much anteriorally or laterally as my left side implant.

Left side implant looks good, but has less under-eye support than the right side on the infraorbital rim portion. Bottom line they don't seem to be symmetric enough.

There is persistent swelling in the submalar region (right below the implant) which is still giving that area more of a 'fat' look and hiding definition for the implant. Will ask Dr. Y if steroid shots are an option to reduce swelling. Hopefully the implants themselves don't create this elevation around the lower cheeks.

Ultimately, I may need a redesign and have the current ones removed and replaced because they essentially are asymmetric and the one good side doesn't have enough infraorbital support. Not sure why they are even like this.


JAW: My right side is perfect.

The left side is too wide and the gonian is higher than good side, this ramus is shorter.

Again, they are asymmetric. Looks like that portion of the implant got shifted and twisted upwards out of position.

Considering if the chin should be wider to create more harmony. Thinking I might not have gone wide enough on chin.

I assume Dr. Y will need to either reposition the bad side or redesign it all, remove and replace that part so it's correct and matches what I say & agreed to in the design.


PARANASAL: Getting them removed. I think they are contributing to the submalar fatness which is a negative. They also upturn my nose a bit too much.


All in all, I am somewhat surprised 1) the malar design seems to have so much asymmetry between the sides and 2) that the jaw implant has a side that was either malpositioned, designed incorrectly, or modified during surgery without telling me.

Mixed feelings. If swelling resolves and Dr. Y can fix the asymmetries without removing what's already good about the implants the end-result would be perfect. Definitely not too big, they do look natural but 'better than natural' - wish they were symmetric! No one can tell I had surgery, they assume my bone structure is just that high tier. It's like having the model look but it's not symmetric. Very frustrating being so close but not there cause the symmetry issue.

 In terms of experience, this has obviously been a pain and would have expected better given the popularity of this surgeon. Need all this resolved and healed so I can move on with my other surgeries and be done with this hardmaxxing road soon. These implants (malar & jaw) are ABSOLUTELY a good move and raise my look all in all.. just need the asymmetries resolved!

Now, I'm still wondering if the chin needs to be widened. 

Meeting with Eppley in-person soon to get another round of feedback and see if I can get proof anything is malpositioned or not. Then following up with Dr. Y a few days after that in-person.


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## zeek (Sep 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> MALARS: My right side malars implant is a bit too high and close to eye. Still has somewhat of the 'punched in face' look. This implant also doesn't project as much anteriorally or laterally as my left side implant.
> 
> Left side implant looks good, but has less under-eye support than the right side on the infraorbital rim portion. Bottom line they don't seem to be symmetric enough.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. good luck! Hopefully it's just a reposition for the jaw. Let us know what eppley says and dr y at follow up.

Are you able to get a scan to confirm the position of the implants? I've seen some of eppley's patients get them after ot confirm position, including that recent eppley patient posted on here whose jaw implant had to be repositioned. Attached his scan below. That would be good to have for both your cheeks and jaw rather than trying to guess.

Please share a progress pic if you can!


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## Kroker (Sep 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> MALARS: My right side malars implant is a bit too high and close to eye. Still has somewhat of the 'punched in face' look. This implant also doesn't project as much anteriorally or laterally as my left side implant.
> 
> Left side implant looks good, but has less under-eye support than the right side on the infraorbital rim portion. Bottom line they don't seem to be symmetric enough.
> 
> ...


Tbh I feel bad for you... You've spent so much money and time yet still unable to get the desired results... 


If someone who isn't financially leveraged like you, could've roped as for now... 


You had knowledge, opinions and desired goal! + Getting the surgery done by top tier Dr yet things went bad?! HOW?


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## madcap88 (Sep 18, 2022)

Kroker said:


> Tbh I feel bad for you... You've spent so much money and time yet still unable to get the desired results...
> 
> 
> If someone who isn't financially leveraged like you, could've roped as for now...
> ...


Yeah, it boils down to Dr. Y. Design-wise for malars it's basically there, I just don't understand why they aren't symmetric.

Jaw-wise, it seems design was perfect. Surgically seems something got messed up.

Paranasal implants, they didn't tell me these literally elevate the base of the nose and upturn the tip. Essentially gives your nosetip a 'bulb' (in my case).. why would I want that?? I DID NOT want that. 

I do think its bad that since these things happen, basically most people cant successfully go through the ringer here due to $.

Regardless, such a pain the butt but the good news is within the span of the next year I will finally be done my hardmaxxing journey.


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## madcap88 (Sep 18, 2022)

zeek said:


> Thanks for the update. good luck! Hopefully it's just a reposition for the jaw. Let us know what eppley says and dr y at follow up.
> 
> Are you able to get a scan to confirm the position of the implants? I've seen some of eppley's patients get them after ot confirm position, including that recent eppley patient posted on here whose jaw implant had to be repositioned. Attached his scan below. That would be good to have for both your cheeks and jaw rather than trying to guess.
> 
> Please share a progress pic if you can!


Do you know where they get these done? What scan is this??


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## zeek (Sep 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Do you know where they get these done? What scan is this??


scan is an eppley patient. He dm'd it to me after he noticed initial asymettry. eppley revised it later.









The Realities of Male Facial Masculinization Surgery Using Custom Facial Implants - A Single Patient Experience - Explore Plastic Surgery


Custom facial implants for male facial masculinization can have a profound aesthetic effect but does involve some significant recovery and the potential need for revisional surgery is very real.



exploreplasticsurgery.com





It's the same scan you got to design your implants off of. You can get another one to confirm the position.


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## madcap88 (Sep 18, 2022)

zeek said:


> scan is an eppley patient. He dm'd it to me after he noticed initial asymettry. eppley revised it later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, exactly what that post says. It sure is a process. Already had a buccal removal, and liposuction isn't permanent so in my mind thats always pointless.

I asked Dr. Y about the scan previously and he said we don't need to. I'm concerned he will deny that it is malpositioned - but then how would he explain it? Then it would be the design, which is still him.

Pretty sure its malpositioned. Do you know if one can independently get a scan, or will I likely need Eppley to sign off?


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## zeek (Sep 18, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Yes, exactly what that post says. It sure is a process. Already had a buccal removal, and liposuction isn't permanent so in my mind thats always pointless.
> 
> I asked Dr. Y about the scan previously and he said we don't need to. I'm concerned he will deny that it is malpositioned - but then how would he explain it? Then it would be the design, which is still him.
> 
> Pretty sure its malpositioned. Do you know if one can independently get a scan, or will I likely need Eppley to sign off?


You need a scrip/order for it. If you scheduled a consult already, you should 100% ask eppley for one *before *your consultation so you have it when you talk to him. You'll need it anyway. Otherwise it's useless for him to tell you what you already know. You can also show it to Dr Y. You can also try to ask Dr Y for one again, citing the asymmetry and desire to confirm. Could also a schedule a consult with any other maxfac and ask for one.


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## madcap88 (Sep 18, 2022)

zeek said:


> You need a scrip/order for it. If you scheduled a consult already, you should 100% ask eppley for one *before *your consultation so you have it when you talk to him. You'll need it anyway. Otherwise it's useless for him to tell you what you already know. You can also show it to Dr Y. You can also try to ask Dr Y for one again, citing the asymmetry and desire to confirm. Could also a schedule a consult with any other maxfac and ask for one.


Thanks for mentioning that.

I'll give Eppley's office a call Monday, and also see if I can see a local maxfac this week.

And yes, of course I'll upload the scan results here


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## Wallenberg (Sep 18, 2022)

The malpositioning of implants seems to be a problem with silicone implants.


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## madcap88 (Sep 18, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> The malpositioning of implants seems to be a problem with silicone implants.


The implants aren't silicon, they are medpor


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## Pakicel (Sep 30, 2022)

Your expectations regarding what implants can achieve are unrealistic. Also, why did you approach all of this with the intention of plastering the features of gl people on your face when they have a completely different phenotype and harmony than you? If I were you, I'd just get all the implants out. Maybe get a HT or some other minor surgery to fix failos. And then just softmax.


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## madcap88 (Sep 30, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Your expectations regarding what implants can achieve are unrealistic. Also, why did you approach all of this with the intention of plastering the features of gl people on your face when they have a completely different phenotype and harmony than you? If I were you, I'd just get all the implants out. Maybe get a HT or some other minor surgery to fix failos. And then just softmax.


I have to disagree. Aside from the asymmetries which Dr. Y is fixing they are exactly what I wanted. Evidently the majority of issues were produced by swelling.

Also, what you said about pheno is incorrect. I have been rated 'chadLite' and wanted something to push aesthetics a bit further, and that's what I got. Never had issues getting attention as it was, wanted to push further.

Absolutely would not remove them, good improvement and worthwhile. Already been softmaxxing as well


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## Pakicel (Sep 30, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> I have to disagree. Aside from the asymmetries which Dr. Y is fixing they are exactly what I wanted.
> 
> Also, what you said about pheno is incorrect. I have been rated 'chadLite' and wanted something to push aesthetics a bit further, and that's what I got. Never had issues getting attention as it was, wanted to push further.
> 
> Absolutely would not remove them, good improvement and worthwhile. Already been softmaxxing as well


Ok. You may be a chadlite. But I think you have fallen for the 'muh bones' meme on this forum. It matters a lot less IRL than you think. There is also a risk that these implants make you look weird/uncanny and you lose all your appeal. For below avg looking people who can't get shit, I think it can be a worthwhile gamble because you have less to lose. But if you are above average and already get women, it is probably better to proceed carefully.


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## madcap88 (Sep 30, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Ok. You may be a chadlite. But I think you have fallen for the 'muh bones' meme on this forum. It matters a lot less IRL than you think. There is also a risk that these implants make you look weird/uncanny and you lose all your appeal. For below avg looking people who can't get shit, I think it can be a worthwhile gamble because you have less to lose. But if you are above average and already get women, it is probably better to proceed carefully.


The implants are actually extremely natural looking. Dr. Y did a great job on achieving that type of result - I asked for 'natural, but 'better than natural'. The angularity they have added is a big plus.

Absolutely understand what you are saying but that was also my biggest concern going into it. Did not want to overdue it.

Excited to resolve the symmetries and finalize this stage of the looksmaxing journey


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## madcap88 (Oct 6, 2022)

Met with Eppley, and heard detailed versions of what I was concerned about. Dr. Y failed on essentially everything.

---MALARS---
PROBLEM 1: The 'swelling' IS NOT swelling. Submalar / cheek fullness is due to the implant design. Implant should stop before natural cheekbone starts to curve inwards - Dr. Y broke that rule and augmented WAY too low. Permanent swelling look.

PROBLEM 2: Malar vertical asymmetry is due to misplacement, one malar was placed much higher than the other by the eye.

PROBLEM 3: Other malar asymmetry is due to design issues. One side is a good amount larger than the other.

PROBLEM 4: Malar implants DO NOT provide undereye support due to lack of saddling. Completely missed the mark here.

PROBLEM 5: Given the above they ARE too large. Eppley suggested no more than 3.5mm augmentation for men

**MALAR SOLUTION: I don't see how implant trimming can fix Problem 1 (submalar fullness), Problem 2 (vertical misplacement), and definitely not Problem 4 (lack of saddling/undereye support). Only option seems to be removal, redesigning, and replacement. UGH, what a headache.


--PARANASALS--
PROBLEM 1: Adds too much fullness to side of nose.

PROBLEM 2: Upturns nose too much.

**PARANASAL SOLUTION: REMOVAL


--JAW--
PROBLEM 1: The larger side is significantly malpositioned. Sticking out and up at an angle which gives an effect larger than even the noted 10mm on design. Trimming entirely unpredictable due to how improperly it's placed.

PROBLEM 2: The better placed side is 2x too low (low gonian) AND has 0 definition. Blends right in with neck. Needs to be higher gonian at least.

PROBLEM 3: Jaw is too wide. It's not swelling.

**JAW SOLUTION: 2/3 (the nonchin sides) of the implant likely need to be removed, redesigned, and replaced. Required changes are TOO complex for trimming to resolve at all. Might need chin portion replaced as well based on nature of procedure and new design.



***OVERALL***
Dr. Y fell short on essentially every aspect. I am not sure if this is his Surgical Assistants fault or not - I will be getting answers from him tomorrow. I explicitly told and discussed MALAR PROBLEM 1, 4, and 5 with him in the design stage. He obviously just sent my CT over to ImplantTech/3D systems and didn't give it much attention or thought. Opposite of what I'd expect from a Harvard instructor. Seems he may indeed be so arrogant and full of himself that he gives 0 attention or thought to any of the process because he is 'gods-gift,' to the world or some outlandish ego of those sorts.

Even worse, because he used medpor removal is more challenging of a procedure. How can I trust his Surgical Assistants to do AN EVEN MORE CHALLENGING surgery if they royally fucked up the first? Dr. Y doesn't do the surgery, his Harvard assistants do. They DONT have the experience physically doing the surgeries.

ZERO reason to pay top dollar for this service. DO NOT consider Dr. Y. What's the point of paying for ZERO attention and communication given during your implant design process and then an inexperienced fresh surgical assistant in residency to do your top dollar surgery? It makes ZERO sense of you have this information. Remember FIVE issues with the infraorbital MALARS, THREE issues with the jaw, and paranasals shouldn't be there either.

Horrible experience. Looking for surgeons I can trust to do medpor removal well AND redesign new implants. Eppley and Pagnoni come to mind. Any recommendations?


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## madcap88 (Oct 8, 2022)

Saw Dr. Y recently about my existing implants. He's trimming one side of the jaw's width in a bit, and redesigning the 1/3 of wraparound jaw implant (no changes to middle chin portion) thats too low to match the good side. I do want to mention that the jaw's level of definition and angularity is incredible - it's very good and I do have a very prominent ogee curve. I'm not so sure Eppley 'got' what I was going for after thinking about that exchange more.

Also Dr. Y is revising one malar to match the other (removing and replacing seems to be best bet imo). My right side malar's infraorbital rim is too high and isn't at the same level/manner of projection as the left side which is essentially perfect. Infraorbital saddles may have compromised the aesthetic and looked unnatural given the amount of projection, so its good Dr. Y didn't incorporate those.

He explained that the lower region of the implant is for increasing definition and 'pop' - which makes a lot of sense. He pointed out that the submalar fullness I have isn't the implant itself - he used his hands to touch and outline the implant shape themselves. So, Dr. Eppley doesn't seem right on that. Based on the discussion it seems the paranasal implant is actually causing that. The cheekbones are like these guys ATM, that lower portion of the implant gives that 'pop' on the lower outer region of the cheekbone (like in the below images) yes, they have that amount of definition minus the fullness I mentioned - I'm not fully healed yet also (Eppley may have assumed my goals were something else):







I was very impressed with his attitude and bed-side manner this time around. He gave me the extra couple minutes to hear me out and make sure he gets everything aesthetically there. Our initial meeting time ran over, so he briefly saw another patient, and then came back to talk to me further. Very impressed by that.

Also, I asked him about removal concerns with medpor - he explained that surgeons specializing solely in silicone have difficulty removing them. If the surgeon is experienced with medpor primarily thats not an issue. Medpor is better fixated than silicone. Bascially medpor seems better long-term but you MUST get a surgeon who uses it extensively over silicone. If any of you guys want to go the medpor route, I'd say Dr. Y is a good choice. Understand later adjustments may very well be needed (as with any surgeon).

I'll keep you guys updated. I am feeling optimistic that this will come out great.

This is a process - this thread is essentially a log of it and as it progresses perspective and understanding develops. Hope the progression of my posts here can serve as guide to you guys so you know what to expect mentally and that these implant surgeries rarely go 'perfect' in the first session. But again, the angularity and definition they gave is insanely good - better than fillers AND permanent. Dr. Y's demeanor was very different this time around and he geniunely seemed to want to make things right.


----------



## Improver (Oct 8, 2022)

I feel like you are wasting the opportunity of having a better compact eye area without the saddle.


----------



## zeek (Oct 8, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Saw Dr. Y recently about my existing implants. He's trimming one side of the jaw's width in a bit, and redesigning the 1/3 of wraparound jaw implant (no changes to middle chin portion) thats too low to match the good side. I do want to mention that the jaw's level of definition and angularity is incredible - it's very good and I do have a very prominent ogee curve. I'm not so sure Eppley 'got' what I was going for after thinking about that exchange more.
> 
> Also Dr. Y is revising one malar to match the other (removing and replacing seems to be best bet imo). My right side malar's infraorbital rim is too high and isn't at the same level/manner of projection as the left side which is essentially perfect. Infraorbital saddles may have compromised the aesthetic and looked unnatural given the amount of projection, so its good Dr. Y didn't incorporate those.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed update. I would be very cautious surgeon hopping to another for a revision. Dr Y gave you a more robust cheekbone design by covering more surface area on the lower portion. You picked good examples of guys who have this kind of cheekbone, those guys have less lower cheek fullness which helps show the definition in the lower cheek.

If one side is near perfect it makes the most sense to leave alone and correct the one that needs improvement, rather than trying to overhaul everything.

And another thing - Dr Y's assistants do not perform the surgery, just speculation on this forum because he's older and some patients have been dissatisfied. He absolutely still operates and they watch and assist. That's how fellowships work, he's a fellowship director. 

Paranasal implants don't work for everyone even if they are small, sometimes filler or fat grafting is better or it's just worth not doing anything to them.


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## madcap88 (Oct 8, 2022)

Improver said:


> I feel like you are wasting the opportunity of having a better compact eye area without the saddle.





Improver said:


> I feel like you are wasting the opportunity of having a better compact eye area without the saddle


Dr. Y doesn't seem to mainly offer implants with saddles - given this, I don't want to take a huge gamble in territory hes not as strong in. I wouldn't trust any other surgeon to work with Medpor so I'll probably just have to cut my losses on that.


----------



## madcap88 (Oct 8, 2022)

zeek said:


> Thanks for the detailed update. I would be very cautious surgeon hopping to another for a revision. Dr Y gave you a more robust cheekbone design by covering more surface area on the lower portion. You picked good examples of guys who have this kind of cheekbone, those guys have less lower cheek fullness which helps show the definition in the lower cheek.
> 
> If one side is near perfect it makes the most sense to leave alone and correct the one that needs improvement, rather than trying to overhaul everything.
> 
> ...


Yea, after discussing the design in detail with him it makes a lot of sense and thats exactly what it does.

He initially suggested just to trim the part of the bad side thats too high. The problem with that is it doesn't have the same level of anterior projection so the entire thing is less shaped and sculpted in appearance. Him just trimming the part thats too high wouldn't satisfy me and I'm sure I would inevitably get it removed and replaced anyway. Given that, I'm gonna be persistent about removing and replacing it with one that matches the good side.


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## OnlyWs (Oct 27, 2022)

You are the most schizophrenic individual I've ever seen get implants, no offence

You talk to one Dr. and they convince you of something and then talk to another and they sweet talk you into the opposite conclusion. You need to be less naive going into these meetings. 

You also seem to be going back and forth between thinking the result is 'perfect' on Oct 1st then 5 days later there's 6 different problems.

Now you seem to heading towards the worst option possible of Dr. Y messing around with your current implants and trying to fix his original errors. Given that there is misplacement and misdeign errors combined, this option will likely just waste your time and money and leave you looking worse before you inevitably go for full removal.

The best options based on your case and similar ones.

1) Either accept your implants as they currently are and move on.

2) Get full removal from Dr. Y and then have Eppley or someone else design replacements and fit them in.


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## madcap88 (Oct 27, 2022)

OnlyWs said:


> You are the most schizophrenic individual I've ever seen get implants, no offence
> 
> You talk to one Dr. and they convince you of something and then talk to another and they sweet talk you into the opposite conclusion. You need to be less naive going into these meetings.
> 
> ...


Swelling has fluctuated a good amount throughout the process and as it in general reduces, even at this stage post-op, the previous issues resolve themselves. This has indeed caused a lot of uncertainty in terms of resolutions, etc. As before said, at this point the adjustments needed to be exactly what I want are not the far off and complete removal and going with someone new makes no sense at this point.

I am getting a scan of current implants to determine positioning this week. This will be used by Dr. Y to be precise about any adjustments. If the margin of error is less than it is now, which again, isn't that big, they will be close enough and I'll consider it all said and done.

They have made a major improvement and outside of those changes nothing huge. I was ChadLite before this and am absolutely above that now. For something like the face, additional analysis is generally helpful


----------



## Swole bravo (Oct 27, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Swelling has fluctuated a good amount throughout the process and as it in general reduces, even at this stage post-op, the previous issues resolve themselves. This has indeed caused a lot of uncertainty in terms of resolutions, etc. As before said, at this point the adjustments needed to be exactly what I want are not the far off and complete removal and going with someone new makes no sense at this point.
> 
> I am getting a scan of current implants to determine positioning this week. This will be used by Dr. Y to be precise about any adjustments. If the margin of error is less than it is now, which again, isn't that big, they will be close enough and I'll consider it all said and done.
> 
> They have made a major improvement and outside of those changes nothing huge. I was ChadLite before this and am absolutely above that now. For something like the face, additional analysis is generally helpful


Hey Madcap, I know we talked in private. I'd advise you not to let Dr. Yaremchuk do your revision. Revision is going to be much harder then the initial surgery. Coupled with that fact he couldn't do surgery the first time to your standards, I feel as if you're risking a botch. When i had a consultation with him, the first thing on his mind was when I could pay for surgery, not if I'm a perfect canidate for surgery. You're not ugly from the implants and they still made you handsome as we know. I'd look at Eppley or other competent surgeons at this point.


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## StrangerDanger (Oct 28, 2022)

Brutal shit


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## madcap88 (Nov 2, 2022)

Here are profile shots.

In terms of jaw.. The higher gonian side is misplaced, which is why it is higher. It's supposed to be as low as the other side.
Nonideal lighting btw

*HIGHER gonian (jaw) side:*





*LOWER gonian (jaw) side:*





Decision is essentially:
*1)* Dr. Y repositions higher gonian side to match lower, less wide side.

*2)* Dr. Y removes entire wraparound and redesigns to have higher gonian like the malpositioned higher side on both sides, and maybe chin width a bit to match. This will also create a stronger v-taper effect from front view. Since the current design has lower gonians, the angle from chin edge to gonian on front view isn't as sharp as the misplaced sides.

Interested in thoughts. And any 'rules' I may be missing or overlooking here.

They say measure 7 times and cut once. Good to be thorough so that next step is the right and final move.

Will post other pics soon.

Thoughts?


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## madcap88 (Nov 2, 2022)

Front views. One again with unideal lighting and other has some lens distortion.

Wider side is higher gonian side that is malpositioned. Should be lower and less wide like other side


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## crosshold (Nov 2, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Heres a pic. Also included Toni Mahfud and Mario Rodriguez who were references for surgeon.


you have good mandible shape, just need it to be wider


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## madcap88 (Nov 2, 2022)

crosshold said:


> you have good mandible shape, just need it to be wider


Check out the recent photos


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## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Front views. One again with unideal lighting and other has some lens distortion.
> 
> Wider side is higher gonian side that is malpositioned. Should be lower and less wide like other side


The size of the implants need to be reduced. The angularity and definition all around is good. But imo your lower third and zygos look too large for your skull. You have blocked out your mouth and eyes so I can't judge things properly. But if your eyes are small and close set and/or your mouth is narrow, then it would makes things a lot worse.


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## zeek (Nov 3, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Front views. One again with unideal lighting and other has some lens distortion.
> 
> Wider side is higher gonian side that is malpositioned. Should be lower and less wide like other side


The higher narrower side looks a little bit better.

Overall, I think you’re best off opting for the redesign and perfecting it based off the first dimensions.

Go a little bit narrower with gonions than the good side and keep the angle at that height from the front.

Can’t judge the chin width because you covered mouth but can PM if you want opinion.

Fortunately, revision recovery is easier because the pocket is already created so the swelling be a lot less.


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

zeek said:


> The higher narrower side looks a little bit better.
> 
> Overall, I think you’re best off opting for the redesign and perfecting it based off the first dimensions.
> 
> ...


The higher side is actually the wider one.

So you think *1)* keep the higher gonian/shorter ramus length, and *2) *reduce width (less than narrower side)?

I'm thinking to *a) *increase the gonian flare, and *b)* increase chin width in that case. Think anything narrower than the current narrow side will lose too much angularity/definition and look too curved without additional flare


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## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Front views. One again with unideal lighting and other has some lens distortion.
> 
> Wider side is higher gonian side that is malpositioned. Should be lower and less wide like other side


You got botched and youre not a chadlite @Pakicel When people.claim to have surgery maxed with no pics this is what happens and no one believes me


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> You got botched and youre not a chadlite @Pakicel When people.claim to have surgery maxed with no pics this is what happens and no one believes me


Nah. He claimed to have ascended to chad after these implants.

Also, his goals were unrealistic from the beginning. He wanted cheekbones like toni mahfud when from what I can judge from pics, he has a completely different skull shape and pheno.


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## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

Who in gods fucking name rated this a chadlite?




@Pakicel you can see from the outlines alone that this guy was never above high mtn


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## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Nah. He claimed to have ascended to chad after these implants.
> 
> Also, his goals were unrealistic from the beginning. He wanted cheekbones like toni mahfud when from what I can judge from pics, he has a completely different skull shape and pheno.


Theres a 0% chance this guy is a chad lol.


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> You got botched and youre not a chadlite @Pakicel When people.claim to have surgery maxed with no pics this is what happens and no one believes me


This is a big issue with implants. They are very very hard to get right. You need to be the right candidate in soft tissues, etc., and then design has to be perfect. Chances are you will need multiple revisions to nail it.


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> Who in gods fucking name rated this a chadlite?
> View attachment 1934802
> 
> @Pakicel you can see from the outlines alone that this guy was never above high mtn


Getting rated chadlite or chad on this forum is not that hard. If you are a mtn and send frauded pics, you will find people who rate you that high.


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## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> This is a big issue with implants. They are very very hard to get right. You need to be the right candidate in soft tissues, etc., and then design has to be perfect. Chances are you will need multiple revisions to nail it.


Yeh lol. This site is such a joke.


Pakicel said:


> Getting rated chadlite or chad on this forum is not that hard. If you are a mtn and send frauded pics, you will find people who rate you that high.


Like lmao. This guy has the audacity to call himself a chad. Blur our meeks, eyes nose lips and he looks like a chad still. This guy looks like some bad pheno normie once you blurr his features out and he still doesnt take the hint. I need to leave this site. Reminds me of that improver guy who everyone said ascended when he actually gained 0 appeal and went absolutely nowhere and some guy even said it was a surgery bias 😹😹


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> Yeh lol. This site is such a joke.
> 
> Like lmao. This guy has the audacity to call himself a chad. Blur our meeks, eyes nose lips and he looks like a chad still. This guy looks like some bad pheno normie once you blurr his features out and he still doesnt take the hint. I need to leave this site. Reminds me of that improver guy who everyone said ascended when he actually gained 0 appeal and went absolutely nowhere and some guy even said it was a surgery bias 😹😹


People here overrate surgerycels. There were people on here rating gaia a chadlite.

Personally, I would never claim chadlite or chad unless I could consistently get results as good as streege or IDK some white tik tok prettyboy on tinder. You can't just rate yourself like that. You need to back it up with actual positive feedback from women. And it has to be in a way that is measurable and repeatable. So claiming to get more 'IOIs' in public doesn't really mean anything.


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## WanderingBurro (Nov 4, 2022)

Maybe because they're so new but the results look awfully bloated. Really hard to judge with the most crucial details being blurred out. Win200 had decently shaped implants that even looked decent when his eyes and mouth were blacked out, but the moment they're revealed the results looked comical as a whole. I expected better from Dr. Y these almost look Eppley tier but still, it's hard to truly judge with so much obfuscated


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## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> People here overrate surgerycels. There were people on here rating gaia a chadlite.
> 
> Personally, I would never claim chadlite or chad unless I could consistently get results as good as streege or IDK some white tik tok prettyboy on tinder. You can't just rate yourself like that. You need to back it up with actual positive feedback from women. And it has to be in a way that is measurable and repeatable. So claiming to get more 'IOIs' in public doesn't really mean anything.


Yeh like at the least show actual tinder results before vs after lol


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## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> People here overrate surgerycels. There were people on here rating gaia a chadlite.
> 
> Personally, I would never claim chadlite or chad unless I could consistently get results as good as streege or IDK some white tik tok prettyboy on tinder. You can't just rate yourself like that. You need to back it up with actual positive feedback from women. And it has to be in a way that is measurable and repeatable. So claiming to get more 'IOIs' in public doesn't really mean anything.


The thing is too you can get botched and still have mega high smv like chadtindermoney lmfao. Tis funny


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

WanderingBurro said:


> Maybe because they're so new but the results look awfully bloated. Really hard to judge with the most crucial details being blurred out. Win200 had decently shaped implants that even looked decent when his eyes and mouth were blacked out, but the moment they're revealed the results looked comical as a whole. I expected better from Dr. Y these almost look Eppley tier but still, it's hard to truly judge with so much obfuscated


Results like this are why I say implants are crap. Most people here would need several revisions to get it right. 

Also, there is limit to how much you can augment your bone structure without making you look weird. It has to fit your skull and phenotype. imo, some dudes are better off boneless.


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> Yeh like at the least show actual tinder results before vs after lol


And get results like that consistently without too much frauding. So no weird angles, faceapp filters or anything like that. You also need to run other dudes as controls.


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> The thing is too you can get botched and still have mega high smv like chadtindermoney lmfao. Tis funny


Well IDK. He has chico tier prettyboy pheno. So it is more like he has appeal in spite of being botched.

edit: I just repeated what you just wrote.


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## zeek (Nov 4, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> The higher side is actually the wider one.
> 
> So you think *1)* keep the higher gonian/shorter ramus length, and *2) *reduce width (less than narrower side)?
> 
> I'm thinking to *a) *increase the gonian flare, and *b)* increase chin width in that case. Think anything narrower than the current narrow side will lose too much angularity/definition and look too curved without additional flare



Ok so I think-
1)keep the higher gonion shorter ramus length (the rule is your mouth level looks best from the front so use that as your guide. Same height as oral commisure straight on)

2) narrow the gonions a little bit, you should still have plenty of definition even with a little bit of narrowing and it’s worth it for harmony otherwise too blocky looking. Less width probably fits your face/pheno better. (But also your photos are definitely distorted due to low quality cam. So go along w the rule and don’t overdue width or due something that doesn’t fit your face.)


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

zeek said:


> Ok so I think-
> 1)keep the higher gonion shorter ramus length (the rule is your mouth level looks best from the front so use that as your guide. Same height as oral commisure straight on)
> 
> 2) narrow the gonions a little bit, you should still have plenty of definition even with a little bit of narrowing and it’s worth it for harmony otherwise too blocky looking. Less width probably fits your face/pheno better. (But also your photos are definitely distorted due to low quality cam. So go along w the rule and don’t overdue width or due something that doesn’t fit your face.)
> ...


Yea, I just took pics with my DSLR and there is a lot of distortion in the pics. Will prob post these with better lighting.

The first front pic is very stretched (my head isn't that wide) second is warped (center of face and zygos arent that big).

Definitely agree on the oral commisure height. Dr. Y had the design at the dental roots. Just adds a bit more v-taper.
But IRL seems like a preference/subjective.


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## LooksOverAll (Nov 4, 2022)

How are people saying it looks bad? Nobody would say anything if you didn't say you had surgery:


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> How are people saying it looks bad? Nobody would say anything if you didn't say you had surgery:
> 
> View attachment 1934854
> View attachment 1934855


It looks better than that second pic (there was a ton of swelling at that time, shortly after op). Gonian isn't lined up with zygos on narrower side, its slightly in now. The wider side is about lined up with zygos now

Goes to show how distorted other pics were.

If you look at that second pic tho, that is essentially the difference in v-taper / gonian height between the two-sides.


----------



## khvirgin (Nov 4, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> How are people saying it looks bad? Nobody would say anything if you didn't say you had surgery:
> 
> View attachment 1934854
> View attachment 1934855


I don't even know how people are saying anything, bad or good lol
like @Pakicel and @Blackgymmax having a chat about whether he's chadlite or normie when you can't see his eyes (and mouth post implants)?


in my opinion the implants are too big though.


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

khvirgin said:


> I don't even know how people are saying anything, bad or good lol
> like @Pakicel and @Blackgymmax having a chat about whether he's chadlite or normie when you can't see his eyes (and mouth post implants)?
> 
> 
> in my opinion the implants are too big though.


Thanks for the feedback.

From your perspective by what margin? Can you elaborate on your thoughts


----------



## Blackgymmax (Nov 4, 2022)

khvirgin said:


> I don't even know how people are saying anything, bad or good lol
> like @Pakicel and @Blackgymmax having a chat about whether he's chadlite or normie when you can't see his eyes (and mouth post implants)?
> 
> 
> in my opinion the implants are too big though.



Op claimed to have ascended to chad and when everychat has a better facial outline than displayed.


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## khvirgin (Nov 4, 2022)

Blackgymmax said:


> Op claimed to have ascended to chad and when everychat has a better facial outline than displayed.


where did he say that?
Literally searched "chad" in this thread and found nothing
I mean he's talking about a revision so he's clearly not happy 



madcap88 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> From your perspective by what margin? Can you elaborate on your thoughts


Not a by a big margin, it's just seem to wide
And yeah people talking about jaw - neck ratio are right, that makes a difference

Have you tested your face on dating apps yet to see if there's a difference?


----------



## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

khvirgin said:


> where did he say that?
> Literally searched "chad" in this thread and found nothing
> I mean he's talking about a revision so he's clearly not happy
> 
> ...


While ago, got over 99+ likes under 2 hours. Got about 20 matches (mainly white girls, mixed, and some asian). Wont say where, but in main city on westcoast USA

I have a girlfriend Im happy with so I didn't go beyond that

I know I'm not ugly, and sisters friends have told her they want to fuck me. Girl at work invited me over to her place couple week ago. Went to a party week ago and this mixed girl asked if she could kiss me before she left and gave me her number. Girl (who I later found out had a bf) sucked me off after an event last month. These things happen a lot and did a to a lesser degree before surgery - I am making basically no effort,

My line of work is about to put me out there A LOT - so I have other reasons to maximize this whole thing - theres no changing anything after that. Also my own preference - The current ones make me a tad too hyper-masculine and I dont want that kind of look.


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

khvirgin said:


> where did he say that?
> Literally searched "chad" in this thread and found nothing
> I mean he's talking about a revision so he's clearly not happy
> 
> ...


I'll probably do Tinder experiments of different morphs on my jaw, (maybe malar implants) to get more data. Probably will let it run more than a couple hours too
Also before surg. I was rated 7-7.5 by pretty well known Face Raters.

On my particular face this difference on jaw (current vs. potential revision) makes a big difference in the kind of look I have. Think they have differing appeals / associated images


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

khvirgin said:


> where did he say that?
> Literally searched "chad" in this thread and found nothing
> I mean he's talking about a revision so he's clearly not happy
> 
> ...


Nother photo @zeek @Pakicel @LooksOverAll @Wallenberg @Swole bravo @Corleone @Artemis
@WanderingBurro


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Nother photo @zeek @Pakicel @LooksOverAll @Wallenberg @Swole bravo @Corleone @Artemis
> @WanderingBurro


Oh yeah this looks a lot better. Implants are not as big for your face as I thought. Still looks plastic imo but could just be lighting.


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> How are people saying it looks bad? Nobody would say anything if you didn't say you had surgery:
> 
> View attachment 1934854
> View attachment 1934855


C'mon dude. Can't you see it? The implants look fake and oversized. Looks better before ngl.

But based on the new pics, it is not that bad. Still has a fake look to it.


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> C'mon dude. Can't you see it? The implants look fake and oversized. Looks better before ngl.
> 
> But based on the new pics, it is not that bad. Still has a fake look to it.


Other angles


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Other angles


Yeah. Like I said before. The angularity and shape of your implants looks good. They are just oversize. Haven't seen before from same angle so can't really decide of you improved


----------



## Corleone (Nov 4, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Nother photo @zeek @Pakicel @LooksOverAll @Wallenberg @Swole bravo @Corleone @Artemis
> @WanderingBurro


That‘s post surgery? Looks good, no ogee curve, but still natural robust looking result


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

Corleone said:


> That‘s post surgery? Looks good, no ogee curve, but still natural robust looking result


In a certain lighting its pretty visible. Also having Dr. Y remove the paranasals so it pops more - they are lifting the lower cheek skin up, which reduces it as well

I'll see about getting a good pic to show it


----------



## Corleone (Nov 4, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> In a certain lighting its pretty visible. Also having Dr. Y remove the paranasals so it pops more - they are lifting the lower cheek skin up, which reduces it in some lighting


Sounds like a solid plan, please don‘t fall for eppley‘s schemes, his results rarely look as natural as the one you got.


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## LooksOverAll (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> C'mon dude. Can't you see it? The implants look fake and oversized. Looks better before ngl.
> 
> But based on the new pics, it is not that bad. Still has a fake look to it.


Mostly because he lacks any nasomaxillary projection so it makes him look like a hypermasc mongolian. His cheekbones damn near project further forward than his nasal bridge. If he had an adequately projected nose and browridge he would look good.


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## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> Mostly because he lacks any nasomaxillary projection so it makes him look like a hypermasc mongolian. His cheekbones damn near project further forward than his nasal bridge. If he had an adequately projected nose and browridge he would look good.


Not just that. Look at the skin over his cheek implants. Looks plastic and fake.


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## madcap88 (Nov 4, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> Mostly because he lacks any nasomaxillary projection so it makes him look like a hypermasc mongolian. His cheekbones damn near project further forward than his nasal bridge. If he had an adequately projected nose and browridge he would look good.


Are you looking at the most recent pics?


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## LooksOverAll (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Not just that. Look at the skin over his cheek implants. Looks plastic and fake.


Cheekbone implants always look like shit. OP should've just gotten a jaw implant alone. Cheekbone implants are rarely ever actually needed since having a wide jaw gives the appearance of better more defined cheekbones anyways. A small cheekbone implant might be better, but I'm yet to see a single zygo implant that doesn't look like shit, Saiyan's included.

Regardless, I don't think he would look uncanny in person if nobody knew he got surgery. Would just look like an robust ultramasc guy with mongoloid admixture.


madcap88 said:


> Are you looking at the most recent pics?


Yes.


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## Wallenberg (Nov 5, 2022)

madcap88 said:


> Nother photo @zeek @Pakicel @LooksOverAll @Wallenberg @Swole bravo @Corleone @Artemis
> @WanderingBurro


Your jaw looks fine.


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## CristianT (Wednesday at 3:24 PM)

madcap88 said:


> Other angles


Can you share a front pic, please?

I myself looking for a revision on the jaw angles and not sure what to do.


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