# Reddit's first steroid cycle guide



## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

They seem to make it like 500 mg of testosterone for 12-16 weeks is pretty riskless. True?






your_first_cycle - steroids


r/steroids: Happily discussing all things related to the safe usage of AAS, TRT or hormone replacement with the exception of sourcing information …




www.reddit.com


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## .👽. (Apr 11, 2021)

500mg is the standard dose.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Hopelessmofoker said:


> 500mg is the standard dose.


I know, I read it.


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## Deleted member 7901 (Apr 11, 2021)

Interests me as well, I haven't found too much good information online regarding steroids,
the only thing I heard from people online who inject roids is that they can be safe if done right,
but they might be just coping.

you have any other good source of information?


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## Mongrelcel (Apr 11, 2021)

lmao I replied to the wrong post, nevermind me


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Mongrelcel said:


> lmao I replied to the wrong post, nevermind me


Thanks for the info buddy, I saw the message JFL.


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## Mongrelcel (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> Thanks for the info buddy, I saw the message JFL.



https://looksmax.org/threads/why-does-dellisolas-smile-looks-so-bad.329882/
too many tabs open


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## Sigmamale (Apr 11, 2021)

Only need 200mg Test e to make gains if it's your very first cycle.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Sigmamale said:


> Only need 200mg Test e to make gains if it's your very first cycle.


The guide explains why 500 mg is better.


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## AlwaysHaveQuestions (Apr 11, 2021)

isnt thats whats said in our botb guide too?


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## Sigmamale (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> The guide explains why 500 mg is better.


what logic/reasoning does it use? Also make sure to get your bloodwork done before you start pinning.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Sigmamale said:


> what logic/reasoning does it use? Also make sure to get your bloodwork done before you start pinning.








your_first_cycle - steroids


r/steroids: Harm reduction focused discussions related to safe usage of AAS, TRT or hormone replacement with the exception of sourcing information …




www.reddit.com


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## Sigmamale (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/your_first_cycle#wiki_why_500m


500 mg yields more muscle mass with essentially no increased risk of side effects so for sure more optimal. You will put on enough mass with Test only cycle, but if you really want to blow up stack it with Dbol.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Sigmamale said:


> 500 mg yields more muscle mass with essentially no increased risk of side effects so for sure more optimal. You will put on enough mass with Test only cycle, but if you really want to blow up stack it with Dbol.


I only consider doing one simple test cycle to get faster to my natural limit.


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## Sigmamale (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> I only consider doing one simple test cycle to get faster to my natural limit.


Fair enough. You can cruise on TRT for the rest of your life tbh broe. Also when you start adding more compounds it becomes a shiite ton more complicated so your decision makes perfect sense.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Sigmamale said:


> Fair enough. You can cruise on TRT for the rest of your life tbh broe. Also when you start adding more compounds it becomes a shiite ton more complicated so your decision makes perfect sense.


Basically, I only consider doing what that Reddit guide tells. So 500 mg of test and other stuff for 12-16 weeks. 

But I'm not in a hurry. I will first cut to 10% while lifting. It might be that I decide that I don't need to be on roids.


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## MulattoTrenMaxxer (Apr 11, 2021)

500 is a recipe for being a bloated mess with high blood pressure and high estrogen. Cut it to 300mg and add anavar


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## TakaTeo (Apr 11, 2021)

Sigmamale said:


> 500 mg yields more muscle mass with essentially no increased risk of side effects so for sure more optimal. You will put on enough mass with Test only cycle, but if you really want to blow up stack it with Dbol.


you will blow up with water weight primarily.


Wallenberg said:


> They seem to make it like 500 mg of testosterone for 12-16 weeks is pretty riskless. True?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do 300mgs with anavar for a first cycle, you dont need 500mgs for a first cycle and its just added organ stress for marginally increased gains.


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## TakaTeo (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> Basically, I only consider doing what that Reddit guide tells. So 500 mg of test and other stuff for 12-16 weeks.
> 
> But I'm not in a hurry. I will first cut to 10% while lifting. It might be that I decide that I don't need to be on roids.


Do 300mgs of test with some anavar, watch mpmd videos on how to do your first cycle and what mistakes not to make.


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## TakaTeo (Apr 11, 2021)

ItsNotADream said:


> Interests me as well, I haven't found too much good information online regarding steroids,
> the only thing I heard from people online who inject roids is that they can be safe if done right,
> but they might be just coping.
> 
> you have any other good source of information?


watch more plates more dates and leo with longevity


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## Gaia262 (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> They seem to make it like 500 mg of testosterone for 12-16 weeks is pretty riskless. True?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



500mg test is a meme that low IQ people regurgitate from each other.

Its just dealers who first said that to sell you more gear and AI's.

You dont need much at all. It should also have another compound as thats more tissue selective if your goal is to build muscle.


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## .👽. (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> I only consider doing one simple test cycle to get faster to my natural limit.


Thats my Plan too but people say its hard to stop it cuz u feel like a god


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Hopelessmofoker said:


> Thats my Plan too but people say its hard to stop it cuz u feel like a god


I have discipline to stop. Besides my dream body isn't some roided bodybuilding freak.


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## .👽. (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> I have discipline to stop. Besides my dream body isn't some roided bodybuilding freak.


Mine neither.1 cycle should be enough tbh. Lets see if i can pin myself, Sounds scary ngl. Maybe im a puss


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## Wallenberg (Apr 11, 2021)

Hopelessmofoker said:


> Mine neither.1 cycle should be enough tbh. Lets see if i can pin myself, Sounds scary ngl. Maybe im a puss


I guess one test cycle would just make it 1 year faster to reach the natty limit and nothing more.


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## .👽. (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> I guess one test cycle would just make it 1 year faster to reach the natty limit and nothing more.


Yea thats the goal. Ive heard things like hapta shutdown or smth idk much about that need more research


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## klamus (Apr 11, 2021)

Yeah its a good guide. I only experienced facial bloat and didnt use Ai. Didnt affect my mood or confidence at all. When I stopped I had this one instance where i got really anxious feeling in gym where couple of niggers were too close To my personal space when I was resting between sets.


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## kalefartbomb (Apr 11, 2021)

"Riskless" depends on context. At low dosages the main risk of injury/death come from dirty gear and poor injection technique. If you consider acne, hairloss and gyno to be lesser problems then there's quite a significant risk of one or more of those. Most people are fine and just experience a bit of bloating. Injectable steroids aren't really dangerous, the danger comes when people start messing around with strong oral steroids, HGH (diabetes), insulin, DNP/clen, and shit like that.



Hopelessmofoker said:


> Yea thats the goal. Ive heard things like hapta shutdown or smth idk much about that need more research



A cycle of test will shut down your HPTA, no question. The main difference between a mild cycle and a heavy blast is the ability for your hormones to rebound.


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## .👽. (Apr 11, 2021)

kalefartbomb said:


> "Riskless" depends on context. At low dosages the main risk of injury/death come from dirty gear and poor injection technique. If you consider acne, hairloss and gyno to be lesser problems then there's quite a significant risk of one or more of those. Most people are fine and just experience a bit of bloating. Injectable steroids aren't really dangerous, the danger comes when people start messing around with strong oral steroids, HGH (diabetes), insulin, DNP/clen, and shit like that.
> 
> 
> 
> A cycle of test will shut down your HPTA, no question. The main difference between a mild cycle and a heavy blast is the ability for your hormones to rebound.


How bad is hpta shutdown? What does it do


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## MulattoTrenMaxxer (Apr 11, 2021)

Hopelessmofoker said:


> How bad is hpta shutdown? What does it do


means there's no signaling for your balls to produce test b/c of the exogenous test you're injecting. You have to keep your balls stimulated while on cycle with HCG so that your leydig cells stay alive


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## cube (Apr 11, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> I have discipline to stop. Besides my dream body isn't some roided bodybuilding freak.


You could probably make bodybuilding your career, take any steroids you wanted to without fear of longevity issues and never even look close to any professional bodybuilders. The idea of being "too big" is shilled by DYELs and women who think if they do a push up they'll be the next Ronnie Coleman. You'd be surprised how many "average looking" guys at your gym are running blast and cruise.


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## gaymidget (Apr 12, 2021)

Its dumb and I am gonna explain why. Having higher androgenlevles is gonna produce negative health effects, thats 100% factual. Yes, 500mg for 16 weeks isnt gonna kill anyone but in general, we want as little testosterone exposure as possible while making the biggest progress.
Once you cycle your 500mg and then PCT, you gonna lose a big part of your gains. Reddits guide says, in the best case you are left with 5-7kg of muscles, which is a lot but only when you are 1. responding good to gear and 2. are sleeping, eating and training like its your fucking job. For the average Joe, you gonna gain 2-3kg of muscle. Is it worth it to shut yourself down and accelerate hair loss and harm your body for 2-3kg of muscle? 

The better idea: You cycle but only with 300mg for 16 weeks, then you drop down to TRT dose at around 120mg/week. You let your body recover for 8-12 weeks and then cycle again for 16 weeks, this time with either 400mg or you take 300mg+ Primo.
Soosh did exactly this and ate well and he fucking blew up and made more gains than when he blasted more gear. if yo want to PCT, you can still do it 1 year later when you actually reached your dream physique. Shutting down is shutting down, it doesnt matter if you are on TRT/Test for 3 months or 1 year. Maybe you will need more recovery time but you will recover. There are guys who blasted for years even with 19-nors and they recovered to accetable test levels (500-600ng/dl)


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## Wallenberg (Apr 12, 2021)

@gaymidget and others: How common side-effect hair loss is? It would definitely be a dealbreaker for me: I prefer to be a less muscular guy with hair than a muscular guy without hair. Besides as a natty, I still gain muscles, doing one testosterone cycle would just make the process of getting my ideal body faster.


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## gaymidget (Apr 12, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> @gaymidget and others: How common side-effect hair loss is? It would definitely be a dealbreaker for me: I prefer to be a less muscular guy with hair than a muscular guy without hair. Besides as a natty, I still gain muscles, doing one testosterone cycle would just make the process of getting my ideal body faster.


It really depends on your genetics, If you are in your 20s and already balding, you will lose your hair pretty fast. If you got good genetics, I will just slightly accelerate the process. But you can use finasteride or RU to minimize its effects. because of increased androgen levels, Finnasteride side effects will be less. Look at Derek from MPMD, he's prone to hair loss and blasted a lot and he still got a reasonable amount of hair. Also, the compounds are important. Tren or Nandrolone will rape your hair, DHT deviates like Masteron too. Hair safer compounds are Test, Anavar, Dbol, EQ and Primo.

Yeah u can just blast and cruise for a year and you will have your dream physique and just need to maintain.


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 12, 2021)

Mriske said:


> 500 is a recipe for being a bloated mess with high blood pressure and high estrogen. Cut it to 300mg and add anavar


Dude why do I naturally have lots of acne, water retention, high blood pressure and gyno without any steroid use at all? What the fuck once I hit puberty all this shit hit me hard what does it mean?


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 12, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> It really depends on your genetics, If you are in your 20s and already balding, you will lose your hair pretty fast. If you got good genetics, I will just slightly accelerate the process. But you can use finasteride or RU to minimize its effects. because of increased androgen levels, Finnasteride side effects will be less. Look at Derek from MPMD, he's prone to hair loss and blasted a lot and he still got a reasonable amount of hair. Also, the compounds are important. Tren or Nandrolone will rape your hair, DHT deviates like Masteron too. Hair safer compounds are Test, Anavar, Dbol, EQ and Primo.
> 
> Yeah u can just blast and cruise for a year and you will have your dream physique and just need to maintain.


Hey man. What would you recommend for someone who had never touched roids but doesn’t want to blast for life? Is it worth it to take the shortcut and do one cycle of test and then go back to natural or is it just healthier to do it all natural and actually have patience?


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## Deleted member 7901 (Apr 12, 2021)

Native said:


> Dude why do I naturally have lots of acne, water retention, high blood pressure and gyno without any steroid use at all? What the fuck once I hit puberty all this shit hit me hard what does it mean?


have you checked your hormonal profile?


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## Wallenberg (Apr 12, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> It really depends on your genetics, If you are in your 20s and already balding, you will lose your hair pretty fast. If you got good genetics, I will just slightly accelerate the process. But you can use finasteride or RU to minimize its effects. because of increased androgen levels, Finnasteride side effects will be less. Look at Derek from MPMD, he's prone to hair loss and blasted a lot and he still got a reasonable amount of hair. Also, the compounds are important. Tren or Nandrolone will rape your hair, DHT deviates like Masteron too. Hair safer compounds are Test, Anavar, Dbol, EQ and Primo.
> 
> Yeah u can just blast and cruise for a year and you will have your dream physique and just need to maintain.


It seems that testosterone is one of the safest steroids out there if used with a moderate and not too big steroid. If that's the case I only consider test. 

Thank you for the information.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 12, 2021)

First I will check my testosterone levels. I'm curious and in the best case I would have low T and the doctor would give me legit testosterone. I don't have any symptoms of low testosterone levels though so I guess they are normal.


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## gamma (Apr 12, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> @gaymidget and others: How common side-effect hair loss is? It would definitely be a dealbreaker for me: I prefer to be a less muscular guy with hair than a muscular guy without hair. Besides as a natty, I still gain muscles, doing one testosterone cycle would just make the process of getting my ideal body faster.


If you're prone to male baldness, blasting T will make u a bald roided subhuman


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## Wallenberg (Apr 12, 2021)

gamma said:


> If you're prone to male baldness, blasting T will make u a bald roided subhuman


I have had a high hairline for 7 years, but it has been stable in the same position, not receding. I have full hair otherwise, no signs of balding.


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## gamma (Apr 12, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> It seems that testosterone is one of the safest steroids out there if used with a moderate and not too big steroid. If that's the case I only consider test.
> 
> Thank you for the information.


Not safe for hair though 
Testosterone has a 100/100 anabolic/androgenic ratio (androgenic means side effects like hairloss and acne)

Anavar and sarms are more safe for hair


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## Wallenberg (Apr 12, 2021)

gamma said:


> Not safe for hair though
> Testosterone has a 100/100 anabolic/androgenic ratio (androgenic means side effects like hairloss and acne)
> 
> Anavar and sarms are more safe for hair


I will probably stay as a natty - especially if getting to 10% body fat makes my face more attractive.

SARMS are less effective?


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## gamma (Apr 12, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> SARMS are less effective?


Yes


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## Wallenberg (Apr 12, 2021)

gamma said:


> Yes


Are the side effects so minimal that SARMs make sense?


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## gamma (Apr 12, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> Are the side effects so minimal that SARMs make sense?


There are less side effects but they're less effective though 
Also sarms shut down natural production of T as well


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## gaymidget (Apr 12, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> It seems that testosterone is one of the safest steroids out there if used with a moderate and not too big steroid. If that's the case I only consider test.
> 
> Thank you for the information.


Yeah u dont need anything else. Oral steroids are considered to cause tumors in your liver and are generally liver toxic. For the most attractive physique for women, you dont need anything else than test.


Native said:


> Hey man. What would you recommend for someone who had never touched roids but doesn’t want to blast for life? Is it worth it to take the shortcut and do one cycle of test and then go back to natural or is it just healthier to do it all natural and actually have patience?


I am in the same boat bro, I wanted to do my first cycle but the lockdown came and I am now patiently waiting. Tbh, in todays society with all the competition and all the estrogen in our environment, I just think that taking test, especially in your 20s Is a very reasonable decision. Look, why wouldn't I max out my masculinity, energy, mental toughness, body aesthetics, dopamine etc. when its dirty cheap and doable in a healthy manner? If you got great genetics in the first place, then you can think about it twice but otherwise, with all the blackpill knowledge, its the logical conlcusion

Also, the heightened libido, dopamine, toughness and energy is very enjoyable. Cycling is fun! Why shouldn't you try it at least?


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 12, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> Yeah u dont need anything else. Oral steroids are considered to cause tumors in your liver and are generally liver toxic. For the most attractive physique for women, you dont need anything else than test.
> 
> I am in the same boat bro, I wanted to do my first cycle but the lockdown came and I am now patiently waiting. Tbh, in todays society with all the competition and all the estrogen in our environment, I just think that taking test, especially in your 20s Is a very reasonable decision. Look, why wouldn't I max out my masculinity, energy, mental toughness, body aesthetics, dopamine etc. when its dirty cheap and doable in a healthy manner? If you got great genetics in the first place, then you can think about it twice but otherwise, with all the blackpill knowledge, its the logical conlcusion
> 
> Also, the heightened libido, dopamine, toughness and energy is very enjoyable. Cycling is fun! Why shouldn't you try it at least?


I don’t want to accelerate hair loss honestly and I already have gyno and acne so I would probably just be fucking myself over to be real.


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## Soalian (Apr 12, 2021)

350g Test a week for 16 meeks is a good starting dose.


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## gaymidget (Apr 12, 2021)

Native said:


> I don’t want to accelerate hair loss honestly and I already have gyno and acne so I would probably just be fucking myself over to be real.


The hair loss thing is a valid concern but gyno can be easily prevented or even reversed with ralox. At the end of the day, everyone has to decide for themselves. I am curious enough to try it. I am definitely going to write a log here.


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## RichardSpencel (Apr 12, 2021)

Soalian said:


> 16 meeks







Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 12, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> The hair loss thing is a valid concern but gyno can be easily prevented or even reversed with ralox. At the end of the day, everyone has to decide for themselves. I am curious enough to try it. I am definitely going to write a log here.


I’ve looked into raloxifene. The thing is I have no idea where to get it or actual information about it. Does it have side effects? This might be the move for me.


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## OOGABOOGA (Apr 12, 2021)

These are the same dudes who will tell you to just shave it off bro


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## gaymidget (Apr 13, 2021)

Native said:


> I’ve looked into raloxifene. The thing is I have no idea where to get it or actual information about it. Does it have side effects? This might be the move for me.


I think its not very effective for puberty gyno or gyno that is older than a few months. Its more of a reverse for steroid gyno when you mismanaged your test/estrogen ratio. AFAIK, side effects are very minimal or not at all.


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## gaymidget (Apr 13, 2021)

OOGABOOGA said:


> These are the same dudes who will tell you to just shave it off bro


I am not saying that hair loss isnt a very important concern but if you got the right genetics, your life quality will improve dramatically when injecting testosterone. Watch the podcast of Prof. Hubermann on Testosterone. Its not just for aesthetic or energy, It can literally change you as a person.


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## Soalian (Apr 13, 2021)

RichardSpencel said:


> View attachment 1087334


Lol damn autocorrect is set on "meeks", for "weeks" now, autocorrect's getting blackpill too JFL.


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## Hollywood (Apr 13, 2021)

Dont buy roids online


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## Soalian (Apr 13, 2021)

juliencentral said:


> Dont buy roids online


Ok, so do where do you buy them then? Legit sources can be found online that ships internationally as well.


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## Hollywood (Apr 13, 2021)

Soalian said:


> Ok, so do where do you buy them then? Legit sources can be found online that ships internationally as well.


I dont use / used roids


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## OOGABOOGA (Apr 13, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> I am not saying that hair loss isnt a very important concern but if you got the right genetics, your life quality will improve dramatically when injecting testosterone. Watch the podcast of Prof. Hubermann on Testosterone. Its not just for aesthetic or energy, It can literally change you as a person.


You do you bruh, if I didn’t have hair loss I’d pin too


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 13, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> I am not saying that hair loss isnt a very important concern but if you got the right genetics, your life quality will improve dramatically when injecting testosterone. Watch the podcast of Prof. Hubermann on Testosterone. Its not just for aesthetic or energy, It can literally change you as a person.


For me personally I’ve thought about and IN THE LONG RUN it’s just not worth it. All I’ll be doing is getting worse acne, accelerated hairloss, probably more gyno, just for temporary gains that will go away when I hop off. And this is all because I don’t want to cruise for the rest of my life. I don’t want to have to inject and make a life long decision to be injecting if I don’t have to.


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## gaymidget (Apr 13, 2021)

Native said:


> For me personally I’ve thought about and IN THE LONG RUN it’s just not worth it. All I’ll be doing is getting worse acne, accelerated hairloss, probably more gyno, just for temporary gains that will go away when I hop off. And this is all because I don’t want to cruise for the rest of my life. I don’t want to have to inject and make a life long decision to be injecting if I don’t have to.


I understand your concern, its 100% valid and something u should think about beforehand. But its a wrong assumption that u lose all your gains, you can basically run 1-2 cycles until you reach your natty limit and then hop off and u will keep anything thats not over your limit. Thats what I want to do, unless TRT improves my life quality so much more. At the end of the day, with todays competition and society demands for success, I want to have every weapon possibly in my arsenal. I am not born into a rich family, I dont have the greatest hormone profile, so why would I want to cuck myself just because of some hairloss or acne (which can be prevented btw)?


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 13, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> I understand your concern, its 100% valid and something u should think about beforehand. But its a wrong assumption that u lose all your gains, you can basically run 1-2 cycles until you reach your natty limit and then hop off and u will keep anything thats not over your limit. Thats what I want to do, unless TRT improves my life quality so much more. At the end of the day, with todays competition and society demands for success, I want to have every weapon possibly in my arsenal. I am not born into a rich family, I dont have the greatest hormone profile, so why would I want to cuck myself just because of some hairloss or acne (which can be prevented btw)?


Yes you want to give yourself every benefit you can but what I’ve begun to realize is that with drugs there are no shortcuts, every time you go against what your body wants to naturally do, there always some sort of negative side effect. The greater effect a drug has on your body the larger the side effects. There’s truly no way to win. I’m starting to want to just do everything the right way because it’s literally impossible to fight against what your body wants to do (live healthy, workout, eat the right foods, good sleep, non destructive habits) and actually live a good life without your body coming back around and cucking you.

Me personally I’m going to do it naturally. You can’t really prevent hairloss and the acne isn’t possible to prevent either. You can use even more drugs to fix acne and hairloss and then end up with even more side effects from accutane and finasteride. Look at me my hair is still falling out today from accutane.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 13, 2021)

Native said:


> Yes you want to give yourself every benefit you can but what I’ve begun to realize is that with drugs there are no shortcuts, every time you go against what your body wants to naturally do, there always some sort of negative side effect. The greater effect a drug has on your body the larger the side effects. There’s truly no way to win. I’m starting to want to just do everything the right way because it’s literally impossible to fight against what your body wants to do (live healthy, workout, eat the right foods, good sleep, non destructive habits) and actually live a good life without your body coming back around and cucking you.
> 
> Me personally I’m going to do it naturally. You can’t really prevent hairloss and the acne isn’t possible to prevent either. You can use even more drugs to fix acne and hairloss and then end up with even more side effects from accutane and finasteride. Look at me my hair is still falling out today from accutane.


If you are prone to hair loss or hair is already falling out then I definitely wouldn't recommend roiding for you.


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 13, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> If you are prone to hair loss or hair is already falling out then I definitely wouldn't recommend roiding for you.


I will bald at age 30 and my hair is falling out from vitamin A poisoning at the moment not DHT related but yes I already know increasing T would cuck the fuck out of me so I’d rather remain natural. Believe me I wish I could feel high T but it is what it is


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## TakaTeo (Apr 13, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> Its dumb and I am gonna explain why. Having higher androgenlevles is gonna produce negative health effects, thats 100% factual. Yes, 500mg for 16 weeks isnt gonna kill anyone but in general, we want as little testosterone exposure as possible while making the biggest progress.
> Once you cycle your 500mg and then PCT, you gonna lose a big part of your gains. Reddits guide says, in the best case you are left with 5-7kg of muscles, which is a lot but only when you are 1. responding good to gear and 2. are sleeping, eating and training like its your fucking job. For the average Joe, you gonna gain 2-3kg of muscle. Is it worth it to shut yourself down and accelerate hair loss and harm your body for 2-3kg of muscle?
> 
> The better idea: You cycle but only with 300mg for 16 weeks, then you drop down to TRT dose at around 120mg/week. You let your body recover for 8-12 weeks and then cycle again for 16 weeks, this time with either 400mg or you take 300mg+ Primo.
> Soosh did exactly this and ate well and he fucking blew up and made more gains than when he blasted more gear. if yo want to PCT, you can still do it 1 year later when you actually reached your dream physique. Shutting down is shutting down, it doesnt matter if you are on TRT/Test for 3 months or 1 year. Maybe you will need more recovery time but you will recover. There are guys who blasted for years even with 19-nors and they recovered to accetable test levels (500-600ng/dl)


finally someone who isnt retarded, although i would advocate for adding of low dose orals (7.5mgs dianabol, 20mgs anavar, etc) for the last 4-6 weeks of a "blast" (in this case upperment from the trt dose) to squeeze out additional gains before going on trt dose. 500mgs standard should be left in the past there are so many better alternatives that are less harmfull in the longrun and more beneficial. (NAC + tudca should also always be used with orals)


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## TakaTeo (Apr 13, 2021)

Native said:


> I’ve looked into raloxifene. The thing is I have no idea where to get it or actual information about it. Does it have side effects? This might be the move for me.


expresspct sells it, you could look for other sources on reddit


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## Deleted member 5927 (Apr 13, 2021)

TakaTeo said:


> expresspct sells it, you could look for other sources on reddit


🙏


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## TakaTeo (Apr 13, 2021)

Native said:


> 🙏


if your using it for gyno and cant find any your best other bet is tamoxifen + letrozole or an AI. the tamoxifen will prevent any current flowing estrogen from enlarging the gland and the letrozole will prevent more estrogen production. but ralox is king for reducing gyno.


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## gaymidget (Apr 13, 2021)

TakaTeo said:


> finally someone who isnt retarded, although i would advocate for adding of low dose orals (7.5mgs dianabol, 20mgs anavar, etc) for the last 4-6 weeks of a "blast" (in this case upperment from the trt dose) to squeeze out additional gains before going on trt dose. 500mgs standard should be left in the past there are so many better alternatives that are less harmfull in the longrun and more beneficial. (NAC + tudca should also always be used with orals)


I wouldn't take DBol because its highly estrogenic. Anavar and other dry orals are better.


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## Wallenberg (Apr 13, 2021)

@gaymidget Doing 4-6 months T cycle would be similar in muscle gains to 1-year natty lifting? Assuming I haven't reached my natural limit. Of course, this isn't an exact science; people are different, but is this the general ballpark?


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## TakaTeo (Apr 13, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> I wouldn't take DBol because its highly estrogenic. Anavar and other dry orals are better.


for me personally im interested in trying 7.5mgs of dbol a day as im taller so its fine for me to hold more bloat. but winstrol/anavar would probably be better because i dont want increased est


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## gaymidget (Apr 13, 2021)

Wallenberg said:


> @gaymidget Doing 4-6 months T cycle would be similar in muscle gains to 1-year natty lifting? Assuming I haven't reached my natural limit. Of course, this isn't an exact science; people are different, but is this the general ballpark?


If you do everything right, you can gain as a newbie around 0.5-1kg of muscle per month. So for a year you can gain a maximum of 12kg while its for most guys more in the 4-6kg range because of training, nutrition or genetic deficit.

4-6 Months of test would, depending on dose and genetics, yield about 7-9kg of muscle. You can get away with more doing wrong because you need less recovery and you are hyper responsive to gear, especially when you are a beginner. Even just the stimulation of walking around in day to day life combined with the test would produce hypertrophy.

So in conclusion, if you do TRT after a cycle or somehow manage a to do a PCT without losing much muscle, you will make more gains from a cycle of test than a natty in a year with perfect training and nutrition.


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## uglynihilist (Jun 26, 2021)

gaymidget said:


> If you do everything right, you can gain as a newbie around 0.5-1kg of muscle per month. So for a year you can gain a maximum of 12kg while its for most guys more in the 4-6kg range because of training, nutrition or genetic deficit.
> 
> 4-6 Months of test would, depending on dose and genetics, yield about 7-9kg of muscle. You can get away with more doing wrong because you need less recovery and you are hyper responsive to gear, especially when you are a beginner. Even just the stimulation of walking around in day to day life combined with the test would produce hypertrophy.
> 
> So in conclusion, if you do TRT after a cycle or somehow manage a to do a PCT without losing much muscle, you will make more gains from a cycle of test than a natty in a year with perfect training and nutrition.


What if I just jump on TRT for and stay on it forever? Or average TRT dose won't be enough to get that body?


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