# ideal pfl according to science



## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

is this study legit?







Measuring the palpebral fissure width reveals the following facts. The traditional method of measuring the palpebral fissure width (the horizontal length of the eye opening) differs from my method. Traditionally, a parallel line is drawn from the medial canthus. The palpebral fissure width is measured as the distance from the medial canthus to lateral canthus. As shown in Image 7, I hope the readers are aware that the way I measure the palpebral fissure width is different from the traditionally accepted method.


The palpebral fissure width is 24.81mm in Average Koreans, whereas it is 26.78mm and 28.1mm in attractive Koreans and attractive Asians, respectively. This shows that attractive faces have a greater palpebral fissure width. In other words, Asians tend to view that eye openings with a greater vertical length to be more beautiful. On the other hand, Caucasians or Blacks showed opposite trends in terms of palpebral fissure width. It was 28.94mm and 31.02mm in average Caucasians and Blacks, respectively, whereas it was 27.45mm and 28.58mm in attractive Caucasians and attractive Blacks, respectively. This shows that Caucasians and Blacks tend to find smaller palpebral fissure width to be more attractive.









#9-4. Differences in attractive eyes across races and ethnicities II


Image 6. Lateral palpebral fissure height(mm) The lateral height of the palpebral fissure presented in Image 6 showed similar differences. The lateral height of the palpebral fissure in average Koreans was 7.62mm, whereas it was higher in attractive Koreans (8.87mm) and attractive Asians...




idnps.com







Spoiler: spoiler



dont know if that study was done on men or women


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

in comparison:


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## Hightwolf (Oct 26, 2020)

weird tbh but should take into account pfl / eye width ratio.


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## needsolution (Oct 26, 2020)

Nice, now i just have to force dr. Sinn to increase my pfl by 3mm.


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

Hightwolf said:


> weird tbh but should take into account pfl / eye width ratio.



agree but shouldnt it be pfl / eye height ratio? correct me if im wrong


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## Warlow (Oct 26, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Nice, now i just have to force dr. Sinn to increase my pfl by 3mm.


are you 25mm with ruler as well bro? b/c iris method is awfully fishy for those with larger irise's


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## Deleted member 7776 (Oct 26, 2020)

To be fair, 1.5mm PFL aren't that much of a difference


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## Hightwolf (Oct 26, 2020)

homo_faber said:


> agree but shouldnt it be pfl / eye height ratio? correct me if im wrong


yeah thats what i meant


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

Warlow said:


> are you 25mm with ruler as well bro? b/c iris method is awfully fishy for those with larger irise's



can you even measure it accurately with a ruler?


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## MansNotHot (Oct 26, 2020)

Can't read dn read


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## needsolution (Oct 26, 2020)

Warlow said:


> are you 25mm with ruler as well bro? b/c iris method is awfully fishy for those with larger irise's


25.5mm


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## Warlow (Oct 26, 2020)

homo_faber said:


> can you even measure it accurately with a ruler?


ruler, caliper, tape measure. The margin of error on each of those is no greater than 1-2 mm


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## Warlow (Oct 26, 2020)

needsolution said:


> 25.5mm


in a similar manner to this i take it?


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## Deleted member 5385 (Oct 26, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Nice, now i just have to force dr. Sinn to increase my pfl by 3mm.


How? With lateral osteotomy and canthoplasty ?


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## Mouthbreath (Oct 26, 2020)

ratios matter more than absolute distances

=> compare pfl to the headwidth/ipd


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## Deleted member 5385 (Oct 26, 2020)

I used calliper and got 31mm
But i must decrease pfh also to show whole potencial of wide pfl
Not to say 34mm are quite achievable and maybe I will try to increase it


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## needsolution (Oct 26, 2020)

Warlow said:


> in a similar manner to this i take it?
> View attachment 761746


Yeah, i got same results with iris method and using ruler. 25.5mm around.


Hunterslayer said:


> How? With lateral osteotomy and canthoplasty ?


Well i hope its not cope and Sinn actually can increase pfl. Ofc 3mm is huge but i would be content with 1.5-2mm. I tried to contact AleksVs because he claims to have it done and from this what he said he increased his IPD and PFL by significant amount, he went from 59mm to 65mm IPD. I hope he will respond to my pm while being online.


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## Deleted member 5385 (Oct 26, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Yeah, i got same results with iris method and using ruler. 25.5mm around.
> 
> Well i hope its not cope and Sinn actually can increase pfl. Ofc 3mm is huge but i would be content with 1.5-2mm. I tried to contact AleksVs because he claims to have it done and from this what he said he increased his IPD and PFL by significant amount, he went from 59mm to 65mm IPD. I hope he will respond to my pm while being online.


WTF what did he get he increase ipd by 6mm and pfl ?
Also he is from jsf?


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## SkinjobCatastrophe (Oct 26, 2020)

Whats interesting is that although asians find a larger than asian average pfl attractive, and whites and blacks find a smaller than average pfl attractive, they all prefer approximately the the same length pfl. Seems to be yet another aspect of sexual attractiveness that all humans agree on, whether they realize it or not. Its interesting how we all have such similar sexual preferences for such minute differences like a few mm of pfl


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

Mouthbreath said:


> ratios matter more than absolute distances



i actually think the pfl / pfh (palpebral fissure length / palpebral fissure height) is the ratio that matters

where did they measure the palpebral fissure height in these studies i wondered? at the lowest point of your lower eyelid?


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## needsolution (Oct 26, 2020)

Hunterslayer said:


> WTF what did he get he increase ipd by 6mm and pfl ?
> Also he is from jsf?


He says that he got tripod osteotomy and modifed Lefort 3. 

Also there were ppl from jsf contacting Sinn, he said he can widen ipd up to 6mm without doing OBO. It could be game changer for people with long midfaces. This + face widening with zygomatic + jaw osteotomy could help ppl a lot.


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

SkinjobCatastrophe said:


> Whats interesting is that although asians find a larger than asian average pfl attractive, and whites and blacks find a smaller than average pfl attractive, they all prefer approximately the the same length pfl. Seems to be yet another aspect of sexual attractiveness that all humans agree on, whether they realize it or not. Its interesting how we all have such similar sexual preferences for such minute differences like a few mm of pfl



there seem to racial difference regarding pfl too if that post is correct



> Blacks and Arabs have more protruded eyes on average, that's why their PFL is higher. Their eyes are less deep set than whites on average.


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## Mouthbreath (Oct 26, 2020)

homo_faber said:


> i actually think the pfl / pfh (palpebral fissure length / palpebral fissure height) is the ratio that matters
> 
> where did they measure the palpebral fissure height in these studies i wondered? at the lowest point of your lower eyelid?


yeah that obv matters too, but when you have a wider head, you'll have a wider pfl, so saying there is an optimal absolute pfl makes little sense


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

homo_faber said:


> i actually think the pfl / pfh (palpebral fissure length / palpebral fissure height) is the ratio that matters
> 
> where did they measure the palpebral fissure height in these studies i wondered? at the lowest point of your lower eyelid?




guess this pfl / pfh ratio


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## homo_faber (Oct 26, 2020)

Mouthbreath said:


> yeah that obv matters too, but when you have a wider head, you'll have a wider pfl, so saying there is an optimal absolute pfl makes little sense


agree


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## Deleted member 5385 (Oct 26, 2020)

needsolution said:


> He says that he got tripod osteotomy and modifed Lefort 3.
> 
> Also there were ppl from jsf contacting Sinn, he said he can widen ipd up to 6mm without doing OBO. It could be game changer for people with long midfaces. This + face widening with zygomatic + jaw osteotomy could help ppl a lot.
> View attachment 761770


Lifefuel but i personally to top tier pfl I lack 2-3mm and to top tier ipd 2mm (I have 66)


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## needsolution (Oct 26, 2020)

Hunterslayer said:


> Lifefuel but i personally to top tier pfl I lack 2-3mm and to top tier ipd 2mm (I have 66)


Well we are on two different planets. My ipd is like 58mm and my PFL is 25.5mm. I would be really happy with 62-3mm ipd and 27-27.5mm pfl. Ofc it just discussion, but if its actually possible then may be in future. Depends on costs, AleksVs said he used his college loan on his surgeries so i bet he didnt pay some giant amount of money,


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## Nisse (Oct 26, 2020)

My PFL is like 31mm and my eyes still look kinda small. My vertical eye length is 10mm


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## Nisse (Oct 26, 2020)

*narrow


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## Lux (Oct 26, 2020)

Never seen a pfl too big. Models have higher pfl than these averages


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## RichardwillImprove (Oct 26, 2020)

Dude I got 35mm maybe after orbital decompression it will improve man.


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## Austrian Oak (Oct 26, 2020)

Bronze8 said:


> Never seen a pfl too big. Models have higher pfl than these averages


Still trying to find out Eriksen PFL. His is the best


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## Deleted member 4797 (Oct 26, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Well we are on two different planets. My ipd is like 58mm and my PFL is 25.5mm. I would be really happy with 62-3mm ipd and 27-27.5mm pfl. Ofc it just discussion, but if its actually possible then may be in future. Depends on costs, AleksVs said he used his college loan on his surgeries so i bet he didnt pay some giant amount of money,



lifefuel. do you have any link to where AleksVs reported all of this? and probably no pics of this before after right?


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## to_stop_da_cope (Oct 26, 2020)

spiderchad said:


> Still trying to find out Eriksen PFL. His is the best


19 mm


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## needsolution (Oct 26, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> lifefuel. do you have any link to where AleksVs reported all of this? and probably no pics of this before after right?


go through his post history, no B/A but i completely understand him, imagine posting your B/A so normies would mock him for being mentally ill or something


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## homo_faber (Nov 1, 2020)

@sergant best of the best inho


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## homo_faber (Nov 1, 2020)

@Sergeant imho


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## Darkstrand (Nov 1, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Also there were ppl from jsf contacting Sinn, he said he can widen ipd up to 6mm without doing OBO. It could be game changer for people with long midfaces. This + face widening with zygomatic + jaw osteotomy could help ppl a lot.
> View attachment 761770


But obo can achieve more things right? I think you can also increase Canthal tilt and the protrusion of the whole orbital


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## needsolution (Nov 1, 2020)

Darkstrand said:


> But obo can achieve more things right? I think you can also increase Canthal tilt and the protrusion of the whole orbital


Idk, never considered OBO, too hardcore.


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## Darkstrand (Nov 1, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Idk, never considered OBO, too hardcore.


If those things actually can be achieved I think it's worth considering it


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## needsolution (Nov 1, 2020)

Darkstrand said:


> If those things actually can be achieved I think it's worth considering it


If there is surgery which can help me to achieve Chico or O'Pry orbitals i would go for it even if risk of death was 50% but there is nothing which could give us something similar. Dont think if pain and money are worth, especially that ppl from jsf told that you would be lucky getting it under 100k dollars.


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## Darkstrand (Nov 1, 2020)

needsolution said:


> If there is surgery which can help me to achieve Chico or O'Pry orbitals i would go for it even if risk of death was 50% but there is nothing which could give us something similar. Dont think if pain and money are worth, especially that ppl from jsf told that you would be lucky getting it under 100k dollars.


I think it also depends on how good your orbitals are to begin with, mine lack exactly 3 things, a bit of canthal tilt, protrusion and 6-8mm ipd
100k obviously is insane, but I'll definetly look more into it, cause it's what would ascend me the most


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## needsolution (Nov 1, 2020)

Darkstrand said:


> I think it also depends on how good your orbitals are to begin with, mine lack exactly 3 things, a bit of canthal tilt, protrusion and 6-8mm ipd
> 100k obviously is insane, but I'll definetly look more into it, cause it's what would ascend me the most


Well if you lack 6-8mm ipd then its hard case i'd say, i highly doubt you can achieve this. Keep in mind that you would need also around 3-4mm pfl to not look uncanny after. But wish you luck with this, if you find something interesting then hit me up.


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## Darkstrand (Nov 1, 2020)

needsolution said:


> Well if you lack 6-8mm ipd then its hard case i'd say, i highly doubt you can achieve this. Keep in mind that you would need also around 3-4mm pfl to not look uncanny after. But wish you luck with this, if you find something interesting then hit me up.


I have 36mm pfl, that's why I look insanely uncanny atm, let you know if I find some more info


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## Deleted member 10185 (Nov 1, 2020)

My pfl are 30cm and people say I have small Pfl in this place... What is Chad tier?


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## MaxillaIsEverything (Nov 1, 2020)

Something seems weird to me. First different studies report vastly different findings. A couple mm even just 1mm difference between studies is significant with these type of measurements. Second, the averages seem pretty high whereas irl you notice a lot of subhumanly narrow PFL (talking about white people) who have to be in the 25mm range. Third, way too many people on here claim to have wide PFL which agree with the studies averages but not with IRL experiences. How was the attractiveness of the eyes judged? In isolation or all on the same example face? I think people with narrower faces (generally considered more attractive IRL) have correspondingly narrower PFL. Maybe it is other things influncing the perception of how attractive someones eyes are.


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## Deleted member 10185 (Nov 1, 2020)

To have god tier eyes.. You need to have 35-38mm... even at 30mm.. Its small..


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## homo_faber (Nov 13, 2020)

the study was done exclusively on women - why dont we have someting similar on men



https://cbc.org.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/01122012APS.pdf



im raging


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## Deleted member 5385 (Nov 13, 2020)

Darkstrand said:


> I have 36mm pfl, that's why I look insanely uncanny atm, let you know if I find some more info


Wait, 36mm... That's literally 99.5 perct ...
How your eye look with such wide PFL...
On narrow skull IT would look really bad but you probably have wide skull if your pfl is so high


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## Darkstrand (Nov 19, 2020)

Hunterslayer said:


> Wait, 36mm... That's literally 99.5 perct ...
> How your eye look with such wide PFL...
> On narrow skull IT would look really bad but you probably have wide skull if your pfl is so high


Remeasured, it's closer to 35 mm... This and PCT alone make my eyes look extremly alien, my subhuman IPD makes it look really uncanny tho
Yeah I do have wide skull, that's why I really really need OBO tbh


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## homo_faber (Dec 10, 2020)

what are the

pfl to face width ratio
pfl to pfh ratio

in these models?




















https://looksmax.org/threads/my-sus...ly-identical-there-like-carbon-copies.254785/





What makes a face beautiful - academic studies


Study from the UK Are these the most beautiful faces in the world? Scientists have used e-fits to create portraits of the most beautiful man and woman in the world - and say David Gandy and Natalie Portman are the closest real life examples A computer programme usually used to draw up...




lookism.net


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## eren1 (Jun 11, 2022)

Darkstrand said:


> I have 36mm pfl, that's why I look insanely uncanny atm, let you know if I find some more info


if your still alive, pm me your eye area


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