# Eppley vs Andreishchev, Impants vs Bimax + Chin Wing. My story.



## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

*Hey guys,*​
Finally, I decided on it, although it was not easy for me to show my face, even if only partially. But before moving on to the main part of this post, I will tell you a short *story about myself.*

I have a rather *weak lower third *of my face, so visually, I definitely look like an Incel. But somehow I managed to get a good education and achieve some financial results, compared with my classmates. You could call me a workcel, quite close to slavecel, but that is another story. Somehow I have reached the stage when I achieved a financial opportunity, when I can fix my lower third that bothered me from the moment I realized that my face will never change again. So now I decided to fix it and *started looking for a doctor* who would help me solve this problem.

Quite frankly, I just recently started participating in the looksmax community, I mean like posting on the forum and communicating with people, although I have been watching it for a long time. And of course, the name of *Dr. Eppley* was always there with all the similar results that I want to achieve. I thought to solve my problem by *installing a silicone wraparound* in my face, which will *enlarge and advance my lower third*. For this scenario Dr. Eppley would be the first candidate whom I would be willing to confide in. 

I was also aware that there are *orthognathic surgeries* that solve the same problems, as well as osteotomy with one's own bone *(Chin Wing)*. Searching for hashtags on Instagram, I found the account of *Dr. Andreishchev*, which had several good results, but they were much less than Dr. Eppley's. But I was interested in the principled opportunity of making this operation, because even if I am not satisfied with the result obtained by cutting off and moving my own bone, then I can always put an implant there afterwards, that is why I decided to study his page for more details.

I also found a very interesting *video* on his page, where he shows how the *bone has almost resorbed under silicone implant* and he said that it always happens. It seemed absurd, because lots of people in the forum have such implants. I even opened a thread here regarding this not so long time ago.

At the end I decided to write to *Dr. Eppley and Dr. Andreishchev* about my case and sent them both my photos, you can find our *conversations* about what came of *it in the attached pictures.*

Now let's get back to the main topic of this post. I want to ask the community for help in sorting out this situation. I don't know what would be the best solution for my case? *Wraparound Silicone implant or bimax advancement + chin wing?*

*Pros and cons:*​
*Advantages of silicone* - it is simple and it gives quite stable results.
*Disadvantages of silicone* - the bone resorption undreath ?????

*Advantages of own bone* - no implants, but limited abilities of enlargement - ?????
*Disadvantages of own bone* - maybe the bone will not grow together - ?????

*But this is just about approaches, let's talk about doctors:*​
*Silicone implantations *- has anyone done a wraparound and done CT after a few years. Is this resorption really a bone settlement and just a passive adaptation as Dr. Eppley said in his Instagram or it is something more?

*Maxillofacial surgeries *- require very high skills of a surgeon, has anyone done an operation with Dr. Andreishchev? Is he reliable enough to trust? Are there any real cases of his surgeries on the forum?

*P.S.* Guys I hope we can discuss all this and you could help me to sort out my case. Thanks to everybody in advance.


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## Deleted member 5912 (Sep 18, 2020)

read it all twice
osteotomies all the way
mogs any silicone implant btw


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## Deleted member 4430 (Sep 18, 2020)

I have a headich


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## Deusmaximus (Sep 18, 2020)

Your problems are your lips. no matter how perfect a implant or jaw surgery will look, lips and your nose will always ruin a masculine look.
Also jfl at wanting a dimple on chin.
I would 100% choose the dr.A route. He seems very blackpilled. Its just very strange that he invests time in totally autistic instagram discussion with a random guy that will propably never fly to russia for a surgery.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Mohamad said:


> read it all twice
> osteotomies all the way
> mogs any silicone implant btw


Bro, you think osteotomy is the best choice for me? Why?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> Your problems are your lips. no matter how perfect a implant or jaw surgery will look, lips and your nose will always ruin a masculine look.


So what do you think I should do with my lips?


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## Deleted member 5912 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro, you think osteotomy is the best choice for me? Why?


osteotomies are superior in every way
you could reach your desired plan with bsso+genio I think
better than silicone tbh
everyone that knows psl knows this is a fact osteotomies>anything else


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## JawGuyFatFaceGuy (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> *Hey guys,*​
> Finally, I decided on it, although it was not easy for me to show my face, even if only partially. But before moving on to the main part of this post, I will tell you a short *story about myself.*
> 
> I have a rather *weak lower third *of my face, so visually, I definitely look like an Incel. But somehow I managed to get a good education and achieve some financial results, compared with my classmates. You could call me a workcel, quite close to slavecel, but that is another story. Somehow I have reached the stage when I achieved a financial opportunity, when I can fix my lower third that bothered me from the moment I realized that my face will never change again. So now I decided to fix it and *started looking for a doctor* who would help me solve this problem.
> ...


Pics or it didnt happen


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## Latebloomer10 (Sep 18, 2020)

you will never have a lower third like cavill because he has slight sfs and you don’t


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## Lev Peshkov (Sep 18, 2020)

Are the images yours?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

JawGuyFatFaceGuy said:


> Pics or it didnt happen


Bro, the pics attached to the message!)))


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## Deusmaximus (Sep 18, 2020)

Mohamad said:


> osteotomies are superior in every way
> you could reach your desired plan with bsso+genio I think
> better than silicone tbh
> everyone that knows psl knows this is a fact osteotomies>anything else


Bsso+genio will not really improve front profile and total ja width. Widht = chin wing/implants


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## Lev Peshkov (Sep 18, 2020)

BTW the answer for your question is get the osteotomies and get almond eye surgery and rhino for upper-class nose 

Then you will mog cavill (cavill is ugly af irl bro, for bone structure your god should be seid)


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## LooksOverAll (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> So what do you think I should do with my lips?


Implants or fillers after bimax.


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## Deleted member 4797 (Sep 18, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> Your problems are your lips. no matter how perfect a implant or jaw surgery will look, lips and your nose will always ruin a masculine look.
> Also jfl at wanting a dimple on chin.
> I would 100% choose the dr.A route. He seems very blackpilled. Its just very strange that he invests time in totally autistic instagram discussion with a random guy that will propably never fly to russia for a surgery.



Bimax helps the lips tremendously though


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Mohamad said:


> osteotomies are superior in every way
> you could reach your desired plan with bsso+genio I think
> better than silicone tbh
> everyone that knows psl knows this is a fact osteotomies>anything else



I also think that it might be better to use your own bone without any foreign materials. Despite several good results, I'm not completely sure whether Andreishchev will do exactly what he drew on the photos?

Is there someone on the forum who has done surgery with him? And has anyone traveled to Russia for this type of surgery?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> Bimax helps the lips tremendously though


What changes Bimax will give?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Lev Peshkov said:


> Are the images yours?


Yep!) But unfortunately not the Cavills ones hahahahaha!)))


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> I would 100% choose the dr.A route. He seems very blackpilled. Its just very strange that he invests time in totally autistic instagram discussion with a random guy that will propably never fly to russia for a surgery.



The thing that I will really fly there if I believe that he is good enough. But it's true that It's a bit weird to fly to Russia for this type of surgery.


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## Lev Peshkov (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Yep!) But unfortunately not the Cavills ones hahahahaha!)))


Jfl don't aspire to be cavill, true subhuman 

Seid max 

He has top 99% bones 

Cavill maybe has top 90%


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## Deleted member 5912 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> I also think that it might be better to use your own bone without any foreign materials. Despite several good results, I'm not completely sure whether Andreishchev will do exactly what he drew on the photos?
> 
> Is there someone on the forum who has done surgery with him? And has anyone traveled to Russia for this type of surgery?


there is a few that have done bimax but I cant recall names
and your saying for bimax its lf1+bsso+chinwing?
it should give you great results


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## JawGuyFatFaceGuy (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro, the pics attached to the message!)))


No i mean your before and after


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

JawGuyFatFaceGuy said:


> No i mean your before and after


Before and after is two perspectives. The left is from Eppley the right is from Andreishchev.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Left is what Eppley modeled for me and right is Andreishchev.


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## Deleted member 5912 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> View attachment 676028
> 
> Left is what Eppley modeled for me and right is Andreishchev.


also whats your body fat percentage?
ideally if your overweight lose it pre surgery


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Mohamad said:


> there is a few that have done bimax but I cant recall names
> and your saying for bimax its lf1+bsso+chinwing?
> it should give you great results


Yep Bro! I hope to have any chance to hear from anyone who has done surgery with him.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Mohamad said:


> also whats your body fat percentage?
> ideally if your overweight lose it pre surgery


I am not that fat, but I think 20%+ which is not skinny either.


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## Deleted member 5912 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Yep Bro! I hope to have any chance to hear from anyone who has done surgery with him.


@Tyrionlannistercel did bimax if I recall


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Deusmaximus said:


> Bsso+genio will not really improve front profile and total ja width. Widht = chin wing/implants


So you think I should choose chin wing and implants later on?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Mohamad said:


> @Tyrionlannistercel did bimax if I recall


And how was the result. Does he feel happy about it?


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## lutte (Sep 18, 2020)

Without a doubt orthognatic surgery. Implants don't look good if you're recessed and you'd probably have to do procedures to adjust your implant later. With surgery you can get the screws taken out later so you don't need to have foreign material in your face.


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## Deleted member 2012 (Sep 18, 2020)

lutte said:


> Without a doubt orthognatic surgery. Implants don't look good if you're recessed and you'd probably have to do procedures to adjust your implant later. With surgery you can get the screws taken out later so you don't need to have foreign material in your face.


Yeah, I’m not gonna endure another hellish surgery recovery just to remove some screws.


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## CursedOne (Sep 18, 2020)

How old is Dr. andrei.?


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## Deleted member 4797 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> What changes Bimax will give?



Forward set lips + philtrum and lips wont be sagging back behind the nostrils anymore.

Look how the lip and philtrum position changes (for the better)


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## Deleted member 4797 (Sep 18, 2020)

Also here's a post I made on another thread, explaining why jaw implant results always look more fake than chin wing (due to the unnatural thickness on underside of jaw, giving bloated look instead of natural sharp jaw look).

-----------------------

A natural jaw grows wide, and has a wider gap from the underside than a narrow jaw does. Adding an implant to a narrow jaw doesn't widen this gap, only Chin Wing can do that.







Distance between the purple and red lines, is gonna be the jaw underside thickness. Natural jaws are thin, so they look sharp and non-bloated - provided they have enough mass and forward growth to stretch the skin.








See how the implant design has no choice but to thicken the jaw? Because it lays on top of the jaw, whereas Chin Wing maintains the same underside thickness as you naturally had, but positions the jaw sides further from each other, which is exactly how a naturally wide jaw would grow, ergo you get a fully natural and more aesthetic result.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

CursedOne said:


> How old is Dr. andrei.?


Bro I don't know, but he look like 40+, I know that Eppley is 65, he should be more experienced I think. Or does it really matter?


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## CursedOne (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro I don't know, but he look like 40+, I know that Eppley is 65, he should be more experienced I think. Or does it really matter?


I just hope that Dr. Andrei wont die before I can undergo surgery by him


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> Also here's a post I made on another thread, explaining why jaw implant results always look more fake than chin wing (due to the unnatural thickness on underside of jaw, giving bloated look instead of natural sharp jaw look).
> 
> -----------------------
> 
> ...



Thanks for such detailed explanation Bro. It looks amazing.

I read somewhere that chin wing can widen the angles. 
If you cut it at the center and fixed in new position, right?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

CursedOne said:


> I just hope that Dr. Andrei wont die before I can undergo surgery by him


Hahaha Bro!)))) How old are you 1yo only?)))))


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## CursedOne (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Hahaha Bro!)))) How old are you 1yo only?)))))


Im 25, but I need to wagecuck till I can get undergo surgery by him.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> Forward set lips + philtrum and lips wont be sagging back behind the nostrils anymore.
> 
> Look how the lip and philtrum position changes (for the better)
> 
> View attachment 676101


Wow that looks very cool, but this is orthognathic surgery, right?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

CursedOne said:


> Im 25, but I need to wagecuck till I can get undergo surgery by him.


Bro I believe it will get better. I was in similar position as you at my first job. BTW I am almost your age ;-)


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## Deleted member 4797 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Wow that looks very cool, but this is orthognathic surgery, right?



It was bimax and CCW downgraft, with mini chin wing. He didn't get braces and he didn't have an underbite before (he had perfect bite, just recessed jaw)

If you get bimax it will have a similar positive effect on your lips, in the Andreischev morph is shows an improvement to your lip and philtrum position. Eppley cant give you that, he can only give you a bloated jaw on a recessed mouth - there's no competition which is the best option, its bimax+chin wing.


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## CursedOne (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro I believe it will get better. I was in similar position as you at my first job. BTW I am almost your age ;-)


Im wagecucking atm with 2 jobs.


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## lutte (Sep 18, 2020)

Tyrionlannistercel said:


> Yeah, I’m not gonna endure another hellish surgery recovery just to remove some screws.


How's recovery? The removal surgery you can recover from in a few days afaik. The metal in itself doesn't matter but it can make you vulnerable to radiation


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> It was bimax and CCW downgraft, with mini chin wing. He didn't get braces and he didn't have an underbite before (he had perfect bite, just recessed jaw)
> 
> If you get bimax it will have a similar positive effect on your lips, in the Andreischev morph is shows an improvement to your lip and philtrum position. Eppley cant give you that, he can only give you a bloated jaw on a recessed mouth - there's no competition which is the best option, its bimax+chin wing.



It is sounds very convincing. If only can see more of his similar results!(((

BTW Are you a doctor or something?)))


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

CursedOne said:


> Im wagecucking atm with 2 jobs.



This is called natural selection Bro. If you maintain like that and is still unbroken, means day by day you only get stronger.
Believe there will be one day when you hit your bingo and make your dreams come true, have to just believe in yourself.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

lutte said:


> How's recovery? The removal surgery you can recover from in a few days afaik. The metal in itself doesn't matter but it can make you vulnerable to radiation



I think that logically just to remove the screws even if there are many of them are much more simple then to cut a whole piece of bone and move it somewhere somehow!)))


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## CursedOne (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> I think that logically just to remove the screws even if there are many of them are much more simple then to cut a whole piece of bone and move it somewhere somehow!)))


Bro, I will wagecuck till I have 100k in 5 years, then I will wagecuck for another 5 years till I can buy a house


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

CursedOne said:


> Bro, I will wagecuck till I have 100k in 5 years, then I will wagecuck for another 5 years till I can buy a house


Every slayer needs his house! It is legit reason Bro! I believe you will be there sooner.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

It seems to me that in the photo on the left I even see the outline of the implant.


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## Deleted member 4797 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> It is sounds very convincing. If only can see more of his similar results!(((
> 
> BTW Are you a doctor or something?)))



No but I've studied all the options a LOT (years), since Im fixing my jaw too.

Another bimax result, showing the huge improvement in lip positioning as well as jaw improvement:





This one was done by Andreischev himself:












By the way, what made you decide on Andreischev over other Maxillofacial Surgeons?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> No but I've studied all the options a LOT (years), since Im fixing my jaw too.
> 
> Another bimax result, showing the huge improvement in lip positioning as well as jaw improvement:
> View attachment 676156
> ...



1) He is just the first one that I found on the Instagram and the one who has been mentioned on the forum quite many times.
2) Some of the doctors like Mirco Raffiani are not so public people and is difficult to find that many of their results.
3) Price/quality if what you send is his real results without any photoshop he seems to be one of the best from that point.

*P.S. *I would be more confident on him if anybody from the forum will tell their story of surgery with him.
*P.S.2.0 *And I am also kinda sceptical about trip to Russia in general. Don't know much about this country.


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## crazyfishy (Sep 18, 2020)

great thread. im considering chin wing with andreischev as well.


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## jj43 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> 1) He is just the first one that I found on the Instagram and the one who has been mentioned on the forum quite many times.
> 2) Some of the doctors like Mirco Raffiani are not so public people and is difficult to find that many of their results.
> 3) Price/quality if what you send is his real results without any photoshop he seems to be one of the best from that point.
> 
> ...


I'm actually going to have a chin wing with him in a few days now, don't mind letting you know how he is.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

jj43 said:


> I'm actually going to have a chin wing with him in a few days now, don't mind letting you know how he is.


Yes Bro! I would like to have all possible info before I make my decision. You are already in Russia? I thought they have quarantine now?


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## Mouthbreath (Sep 18, 2020)

Dr. Andreishchev writes like a cute russian girl lmao


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## jj43 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Yes Bro! I would like to have all possible info before I make my decision. You are already in Russia? I thought they have quarantine now?


No I'm going on Sunday. They were closed off for a long time but recently opened the border to at least certain countries, could be all now. But you need a visa and covid tests to get in.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

Mouthbreath said:


> Dr. Andreishchev writes like a cute russian girl lmao


Hahahah!))) That is quite funny. I would like to see a cute Russian girl who write like that!))) hahahaha


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

jj43 said:


> No I'm going on Sunday. They were closed off for a long time but recently opened the border to at least certain countries, could be all now. But you need a visa and covid tests to get in.


So you will be doing an operation next week?

Have you been to Russia before?


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## jj43 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> So you will be doing an operation next week?
> 
> Have you been to Russia before?


Yeah it should be on the 23rd and nope I've never been before 😂


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 18, 2020)

jj43 said:


> Yeah it should be on the 23rd and nope I've never been before 😂


)))) Do they arrange the trip for you or you have to handle yourself?
I heard different things about Russia. I hope it is better then some people say!))))


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## jj43 (Sep 18, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> )))) Do they arrange the trip for you or you have to handle yourself?
> I heard different things about Russia. I hope it is better then some people say!))))


One of andreischev assistants booked the hotel which also had a large discount for andreischevs patients and he has been in contact telling me what I needed to do before traveling e.g visa and covid tests. But tbh he hasn't been the best since he told me I need to do the test a week before going which I did and now I've seen that it was is supposed to be within 72hours, but he has said not to do it again since it was very pricey and says I should be fine getting in still.


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## crazyfishy (Sep 18, 2020)

jj43 said:


> I'm actually going to have a chin wing with him in a few days now, don't mind letting you know how he is.


please let me know also!


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## jj43 (Sep 18, 2020)

crazyfishy said:


> please let me know also!


Sure bro!


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## TITUS (Sep 18, 2020)

I would never go to a jewish doctor, Andrei all the way, cheaper, better, wont kike you, etc.


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## Deleted member 1862 (Sep 18, 2020)

dnrd

osteotomy mogs the end


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

jj43 said:


> One of andreischev assistants booked the hotel which also had a large discount for andreischevs patients and he has been in contact telling me what I needed to do before traveling e.g visa and covid tests. But tbh he hasn't been the best since he told me I need to do the test a week before going which I did and now I've seen that it was is supposed to be within 72hours, but he has said not to do it again since it was very pricey and says I should be fine getting in still.


Wow. I hope you will have no problem getting in. Is it like Russian local law that covid test has to be done 72 hours before arrival?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

TITUS said:


> I would never go to a jewish doctor, Andrei all the way, cheaper, better, wont kike you, etc.


You are talking about Eppley? I thought his surname is not jewish or I am wrong? 

BTW For me nationality doesn't matter much, cause the most important points are dr. skills, jobs that he performed, as well as reasonability of his pricing. Eppleys pricing is not cheap though ;-)))))


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

aut0phobic said:


> dnrd
> 
> osteotomy mogs the end
> 
> View attachment 676601


In your profile you wrote no bro. So in this case could I call you pal instead, would that be ok?))))

If to be serious seems like everyone side osteotomy approach and none side the implants, and it seems strange for me.

In that case why there are so many people who has done wraparounds instead of chin wing or something like that? I don't believe that there are so many idiots around.

I think in terms of knowledge and in terms of all the best characteristics of community by itself people here study the subject very well, before they post something. At less these are the people I came across here.

So my question is still there, why so many people choose implants instead of own bone if the bone is so much better as everyone say?


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## jj43 (Sep 19, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Wow. I hope you will have no problem getting in. Is it like Russian local law that covid test has to be done 72 hours before arrival?


Yeah thanks bro. Yeah they say you need a test within 72 hours. But andreis assistant is confident that mine from a week before will be fine, so risking it and taking his word


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## Deleted member 6889 (Sep 19, 2020)

I don't have the greatest knowledge on osteotomy surgery but is a bimax possible at the same time as a chin wing, I thought it's only possible to have one done at the same time (e.g. bimax first, wait for your bone to fully heal/form, then a chin wing can be performed). Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

degeneratecel said:


> I don't have the greatest knowledge on osteotomy surgery but is a bimax possible at the same time as a chin wing, I thought it's only possible to have one done at the same time (e.g. bimax first, wait for your bone to fully heal/form, then a chin wing can be performed). Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Bro, I believe it is possible to do if Andreishchev propose to do so. But what I am truly believe that it definitely require very professional skills, so I need a bit more proof of Andreishchevs capabilities to make my final move and book a surgery with him.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

jj43 said:


> Yeah thanks bro. Yeah they say you need a test within 72 hours. But andreis assistant is confident that mine from a week before will be fine, so risking it and taking his word


Bro I hope you will keep us updated. Damn, I am waiting for your review more then new season of Witcher on Netflix. 

BTW Cavill is out already!)))


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

And so far nobody side silicone wraparaound???


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## Latebloomer10 (Sep 19, 2020)

a few people have had bimax with andreischev i’m getting it in february done with him


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## Latebloomer10 (Sep 19, 2020)

btw implants are dogshit and you need bimax not chinwing


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## Latebloomer10 (Sep 19, 2020)

also cmon bro why you gotta tell andreischev about the forum won’t help us in any way


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## Donc0ck (Sep 19, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro, I believe it is possible to do if Andreishchev propose to do so. But what I am truly believe that it definitely require very professional skills, so I need a bit more proof of Andreishchevs capabilities to make my final move and book a surgery with him.


I think if the bsso cut is very high you can do both at the same time( that's how Z does it). If it is a normal bsso cut I will be more of a extented genio then a whole chin wing.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

Latebloomer10 said:


> also cmon bro why you gotta tell andreischev about the forum won’t help us in any way


Bro, I don't get you!))) Feel myself brainmogged hahaha!))))


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

Donc0ck said:


> I think if the bsso cut is very high you can do both at the same time( that's how Z does it). If it is a normal bsso cut I will be more of a extented genio then a whole chin wing.


Bro, sorry but who is Z?))) Again I feel brainmogged!)))) hahaha

Guys don't be like that!)))))


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## Donc0ck (Sep 19, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro, sorry but who is Z?))) Again I feel brainmogged!)))) hahaha
> 
> Guys don't be like that!)))))


Zarrinbal from Berlin. He does bimax and CW in one surgery.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

Latebloomer10 said:


> btw implants are dogshit and you need bimax not chinwing


But I want to have a max max result. You think Bimax by itself could give me that?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

Donc0ck said:


> Zarrinbal from Berlin. He does bimax and CW in one surgery.


He should be very professional if he could do so. Does he have Instagram or website?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

Latebloomer10 said:


> a few people have had bimax with andreischev i’m getting it in february done with him


You mean February 2021?


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## Deleted member 1862 (Sep 19, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> In that case why there are so many people who has done wraparounds instead of chin wing or something like that? I don't believe that there are so many idiots around.


This is the line of reasoning where you went wrong.

there ARE so many idiots around. There's a reason why the majority of implant results are garbage, because normies are slaves to advertising & don't do their own research. The plastic surgery industry THRIVES on the laziness of the average consumer as well as their naive credulity.

So to answer your final point:


Toogoodtobetrue said:


> So my question is still there, why so many people choose implants instead of own bone if the bone is so much better as everyone say?


It's because people are usually wilfully naive, overly optimistic or just plain stupid. They value convenience over logical reasoning.


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## Deleted member 1862 (Sep 19, 2020)

By reading OPs replies to shit I'm starting to think he's a troll jfl who types like that?


Toogoodtobetrue said:


> !))))





Toogoodtobetrue said:


> !))))





Toogoodtobetrue said:


> !))))





Toogoodtobetrue said:


> !))))





Toogoodtobetrue said:


> !))))


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

aut0phobic said:


> By reading OPs replies to shit I'm starting to think he's a troll jfl who types like that?


Mentally unstable person only!))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bro everyone have their bad habits, so this is mine!


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

aut0phobic said:


> This is the line of reasoning where you went wrong.
> 
> there ARE so many idiots around. There's a reason why the majority of implant results are garbage, because normies are slaves to advertising & don't do their own research. The plastic surgery industry THRIVES on the laziness of the average consumer as well as their naive credulity.


I think that unfortunately you are right!( Sometimes I wish to believe that people could analyze what is the best solution for them. But I guess not all people are like that.

So far back to the topic. I am quite confident that I should go to osteotomical direction instead of Implantation. Seems like there are no advantages of silicone implants at all!


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## MentalistKebab (Sep 19, 2020)

You cant do bimax after implants, but reverse is possible.

So get bimax only first (mostly for) side profile improvement.

Then look at yourself again, and if you think your lower third is still too narrow from the front, try to decide between implants or chin wing to increase bigonial width.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 19, 2020)

MentalistKebab said:


> You cant do bimax after implants, but reverse is possible.
> 
> So get bimax only first (mostly for) side profile improvement.


Thanks for the advice Bro. I was thinking to do the same as well. It is logical to use your own bone first as much as possible and later on if that is not enough can still use implants. I think if implants are there nothing much could be done already.


> Then look at yourself again, and if you think your lower third is still too narrow from the front, try to decide between implants or chin wing to increase bigonial width.


To be frank this is best possible solution. But me as many of people here want to settle this problem once and for all. At less to give a try. So max max is something that should be done in that case. I mean bimax + chin wing as what Andreishchev suggested me to do actually.

With a help of community I am siding his approach more and more. Silicone looks like something very commercial that could settle some of the problems, but give other problems, such as unnatural look, bloated lower third and other things that guys posted here.

I think that wraparound is unable to settle my personal problem at all.


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## blacktablet (Sep 19, 2020)

What's recovery time for BiMax? And what preparations will I need, like braces? (Seems like I don't have overbite, but lower teeth are not aligned with top ones at edges, they touches them behind).
Seems like a long process. Jaw wraparound feels much shorter and less invasive.


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## ImpressionableYouth (Sep 19, 2020)

blacktablet said:


> What's recovery time for BiMax? And what preparations will I need, like braces? (Seems like I don't have overbite, but lower teeth are not aligned with top ones at edges, they touches them behind).
> Seems like a long process. Jaw wraparound feels much shorter and less invasive.



Recovery time is about 6 weeks for a bimax if all goes well. 

You'll need braces to align your teeth if you have a bite problem. If your bite is fine, you'll only need braces AFTER the procedure. 

Jaw Implants are much faster and less invasive, but implants on a recessed face are going to be a disaster. Remember this, implants can't mimic forward growth the way a Bimax can.


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## blacktablet (Sep 19, 2020)

What is recovery dynamic during this 6 weeks?
Will I lie at home all this time, can't go out and eat normally?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

blacktablet said:


> Seems like a long process. Jaw wraparound feels much shorter and less invasive.


Yes Bro! This is a strong point of wraparaound!


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## maxmendietta (Sep 20, 2020)

this nigga made pamphlets for his looksmaxxing thread


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

ImpressionableYouth said:


> Jaw Implants are much faster and less invasive, but implants on a recessed face are going to be a disaster. Remember this, implants can't mimic forward growth the way a Bimax can.


But this is a weak point on another side. I believe that is why Eppley suggested me to do a liposuction. Because the Implant will not adjust this part at all! Here was the post where one of Bros described why it happens in full details.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

DatGuyYouLike said:


> Also here's a post I made on another thread, explaining why jaw implant results always look more fake than chin wing (due to the unnatural thickness on underside of jaw, giving bloated look instead of natural sharp jaw look).
> 
> -----------------------
> 
> ...


This is super amazing post! He has done a brilliant research.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

maxmendietta said:


> this nigga made pamphlets for his looksmaxxing thread


Yes Bro. I have been caught *red*-*handed. *This is just a first step. The second one is to create my own cult.

But to be serious, I am just trying to keep conversation with everyone. You have spend plenty of time on forum and I am still super new. Probably it is difficult to make you very exited by anything already. But I am still on a spiritual upsurge! This is such a community!


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## maxmendietta (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Yes Bro. I have been caught *red*-*handed. *This is just a first step. The second one is to create my own cult.
> 
> But to be serious, I am just trying to keep conversation with everyone. You have spend plenty of time on forum and I am still super new. Probably it is difficult to make you very exited by anything already. But I am still on a spiritual upsurge! This is such a community!


keep writing essays you subhuman dog cumskin


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

blacktablet said:


> What is recovery dynamic during this 6 weeks?
> Will I lie at home all this time, can't go out and eat normally?


This is something I also would like to know. Because post orthognathic recovery is the most tough thing about these type of operation. If people do double jaw they definitely have to wear braces afterwards with all the rubbers that keep mouth closed.

I wonder if Bimax is like that or not necessary? Could anyone please share who did that surgery?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

maxmendietta said:


> keep writing essays you subhuman dog cumskin


By this topic I am trying to be less subhuman (at less visually), so we are discussing what is the best approach for external transformation. Hopefully internal will be there soon as well!(

BTW do you have anything to share here Bro? Do you have any implants or have you done any orthognathic surgery on your face.


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## maxmendietta (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> By this topic I am trying to be less subhuman (at less visually), so we are discussing what is the best approach for external transformation. Hopefully internal will be there soon as well!(


no implants for ur genes


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

maxmendietta said:


> no implants for ur genes


Maybe DNA modifications will be soon available. Who knows?
So there be different approach then. But this is unrelated to topic.


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## Lars2210 (Sep 20, 2020)

degeneratecel said:


> I don't have the greatest knowledge on osteotomy surgery but is a bimax possible at the same time as a chin wing, I thought it's only possible to have one done at the same time (e.g. bimax first, wait for your bone to fully heal/form, then a chin wing can be performed). Please correct me if I'm wrong.


It’s possible if the cut is made high up the mandibular area. Zarrinbal does it routinely 

OP if ur gonna go ahead I recommend consulting zarrinbal. He’s one of the top 3 as far as chin wing


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars2210 said:


> OP if ur gonna go ahead I recommend consulting zarrinbal. He’s one of the top 3 as far as chin wing


And which doctors are top 3 for chin wing actually?


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## Lars2210 (Sep 20, 2020)

OP not to discourage u but u have to do more research into this. 
Did u ask dr. A whether or not you’ll need orthodontic work before & after bimax. It’s a heavy freakin surgery & might need u a good 2 years to see final results if you need braces before/after

On the other hand, the re-absorption issue is prevalent with silicone but there are alternatives such as medpor & titanium. DeFranq also uses PEEK which has a low re-absop rate but might make u look more bloated. Anyways my advice is you do more research at this point


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## Lars2210 (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> And which doctors are top 3 for chin wing actually?


Triacia (he invented it) 
Brusco (his student) 
Zarrinbal (his other student)


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## tincelw (Sep 20, 2020)

honestly the results look underwhelming for the money you will be spending.
Have you considered losing weight and then asking them to morph you again? then you could see the impact it would actually have, right now you are so bloated that it barely make a difference.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars2210 said:


> OP not to discourage u but u have to do more research into this.
> Did u ask dr. A whether or not you’ll need orthodontic work before & after bimax. It’s a heavy freakin surgery & might need u a good 2 years to see final results if you need braces before/after
> 
> On the other hand, the re-absorption issue is prevalent with silicone but there are alternatives such as medpor & titanium. DeFranq also uses PEEK which has a low re-absop rate but might make u look more bloated. Anyways my advice is you do more research at this point


Yes, this is a second step. First I need to make my mind which Dr. to choose and after then to talk to him directly with a plan. Two years is not so short term, but I am willing to overcome everything, such as braces and other thing if necessary to achieve the result I want.


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## PubertyMaxxer (Sep 20, 2020)

Do Bimax + Chin Shield 
You could always get implants afterwards 

Not the other way around though 

Also ccw bimax will improve your lips and nose


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars2210 said:


> Triacia (he invented it)
> Brusco (his student)
> Zarrinbal (his other student)


Do they have any Instagrams or websites? I came across Andreishchev because he publish plenty of jobs into his Instagram. But unfortunately not so many results that I am interested in. Except of couple very impressive transformations by double jaw and chin wing.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

PubertyMaxxer said:


> Do Bimax + Chin Shield
> You could always get implants afterwards
> 
> Not the other way around though
> ...


Thanks Bro. But what is chin shield actually?


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## Lars2210 (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Do they have any Instagrams or websites? I came across Andreishchev because he publish plenty of jobs into his Instagram. But unfortunately not so many results that I am interested in. Except of couple very impressive transformations by double jaw and chin wing.


Brusco has an insta but zarrinbal you’ll find some results on his website 

Look if you have the money to blow I’ll just save u the time & effort & give u the most adequate plan for ur case. 
Forgot the implants they will probably cause more bloat than angularity give ur mandible. Do 3 bimax consultations with the following 
Raffaini
Zarrinbal
Gunson (or andre) 

Take the plans they made & post them here for feedback. Shuffle the plans with diff doctors & try to understand them yourself. After you settle on one, revise the plan with Zarrinbal & Andre to make sure that the Chin Wing can be done after the bimax in the case you decide to go with raffiani because he doesn’t do chin wings but probably has the best bimax results as far as aesthetics. This will add height & robustness to your lower third. If in the case you needed more angularity u can do fillers to the gonials which will be very minimal since u already have a good foundation after all that


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## PubertyMaxxer (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Thanks Bro. But what is chin shield actually?


Chin shield is a better version of chin wing 
Google it


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

tincelw said:


> honestly the results look underwhelming for the money you will be spending.
> Have you considered losing weight and then asking them to morph you again? then you could see the impact it would actually have, right now you are so bloated that it barely make a difference.


Thanks Bro. This is a very good idea, I have nothing to say against it. I am already doing some gym, such as running and carrying the weights. I will try to lose as much as possible weight in a short term. But not in too short, I don't want to have some sagging skin.

But too be frank I am not too fat. My weight is 79kg with 177cm height. I can do about 15 pull ups in one set and I do press 100kg for 5 reps. But I am still a little fat. Definitely over 20%.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

PubertyMaxxer said:


> Chin shield is a better version of chin wing
> Google it


But isn't the chin shield just a regular sliding genioplasty?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars2210 said:


> Brusco has an insta but zarrinbal you’ll find some results on his website
> 
> Look if you have the money to blow I’ll just save u the time & effort & give u the most adequate plan for ur case.
> Forgot the implants they will probably cause more bloat than angularity give ur mandible. Do 3 bimax consultations with the following
> ...


This is very good idea, I think I will try to contact each of them and if all of them reply I will post it here.


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## Lars2210 (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> This is very good idea, I think I will try to contact each of them and if all of them reply I will post it here.


Do me a favor & post the pricing too if u can G


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## Slayerino (Sep 20, 2020)

JFL at mentioning .me to Andreishcheiv.
True aspie move.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars2210 said:


> Do me a favor & post the pricing too if u can G


Sure Bro, if I manage to get it from all of them.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

Slayerino said:


> JFL at mentioning .me to Andreishcheiv.
> True aspie move.


Bro I think you missed the beginning of the conversation. I managed to contact Eppley and Andreishchev and they managed to do some modeling. But none of the guys sided Eppley so as for now I am quite sure that I am not going to put any implants, at less untill I use my own bone resources until maximum.

If regarding Andreishchev I am still not convinced on 100% that he we will be the one who do surgery for me. And as what Bro @Lars2210 suggested I will get all the info from the rest of the doctors doing these surgeries and post it here, before I make my decision.


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

jj43 said:


> I'm actually going to have a chin wing with him in a few days now, don't mind letting you know how he is.


And also an experience of Bro @jj43 will matter a lot to me.


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## NorwoodStyle (Sep 20, 2020)

blacktablet said:


> What's recovery time for BiMax? And what preparations will I need, like braces? (Seems like I don't have overbite, but lower teeth are not aligned with top ones at edges, they touches them behind).
> Seems like a long process. Jaw wraparound feels much shorter and less invasive.



Bimax recovery is brutal. First week or 2 especially where you can't open your mouth, you will drool and have trouble breathing because of blood clots in your nose, and can't sleep freely because you have to sleep elevated on your back to reduce swelling. You will have to eat liquid foods during the first 4 to 6 weeks and it's better to keep elastics on all the time to have optimal bone healing. You'll be back to normal only after 3 or 4 months, and keep braces for a few more months afterwards (braces probably not necessary before if your teeth are aligned)

https://www.doublejawsurgery.com/recovery-timeline/


It's a heavily invasive pest of a surgery but totally worth it if you're failoed by lower third. Wraparounds are useless on their own if you're recessed, and weak jawline generally means lower maxillary+mandibular recession, which are only corrected with bimax. Implants should only be used as a complement after the structural issue is addressed.


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## jj43 (Sep 20, 2020)

Just an update for anyone interested but basically andreis assistant told me to do a covid test a week before and then we found out it was supposed to be within 72 hours but he said not to bother and that it would be fine🤔. When I got to the airport the guy was like you can't fly because the test is too old, and Andreis assistant was on the phone roasting him but didn't work 😂andreis assistant then told me to fly to Istanbul and do a covid test there which gives results instantly and then fly to st Petersburg. But I managed to convince him to edit my covid test from his computer and change the dates which is illegal ofc but he did it and it actually worked. So I'm here now and got the consultation tomorrow


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

jj43 said:


> Just an update for anyone interested but basically andreis assistant told me to do a covid test a week before and then we found out it was supposed to be within 72 hours but he said not to bother and that it would be fine🤔. When I got to the airport the guy was like you can't fly because the test is too old, and Andreis assistant was on the phone roasting him but didn't work 😂andreis assistant then told me to fly to Istanbul and do a covid test there which gives results instantly and then fly to st Petersburg. But I managed to convince him to edit my covid test from his computer and change the dates which is illegal ofc but he did it and it actually worked. So I'm here now and got the consultation tomorrow


What the hell Bro? Are you ok now? How you managed to convince him?


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## jj43 (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> What the hell Bro? Are you ok now? How you managed to convince him?


Yep all good now in st Petersburg, but I mean I convinced andreis assistant to change my covid test dates by converting it word and back to pdf, for me and then I showed it to the airport staff and it worked


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## RecessedPrettyboy (Sep 20, 2020)

why the fuck would anyone want a dimple in their chin? thats legit a looksmin


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

jj43 said:


> Yep all good now in st Petersburg, but I mean I convinced andreis assistant to change my covid test dates by converting it word and back to pdf, for me and then I showed it to the airport staff and it worked


You almost hit your bingo!) I hope that everything win run smoothly for you from now on. 🤣

BTW What is your surgical plan as in what you planned to do at his side during this trip?


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

RecessedPrettyboy said:


> why the fuck would anyone want a dimple in their chin? thats legit a looksmin


I think it looks cool for my personal taste. But I guess you don't think so. 🤣🤣🤣


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## jj43 (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> You almost hit your bingo!) I hope that everything win run smoothly for you from now on. 🤣
> 
> BTW What is your surgical plan as in what you planned to do at his side during this trip?


I'm gonna a chin wing surgery to fix my recessed chin and improve my gonial angle


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

PapiMew said:


> Bro he’s known about .me for ages. He literally talks to some of our users on a weekly basis for fun. Dude really loves his job.


I think that he is definitely a fun guy!) If not these guys that would be too boring place I think.

It's great that this forum has so many shades. That is why this is such a unique and insanely interesting place, where no matter how much you spend here you will still feel yourself as Aspie or Austist. At less that is how I feel myself. 🤣😂🤣


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## jj43 (Sep 20, 2020)

PapiMew said:


> I’m happy to see that you are getting surgery. Do you have discord? Could I ask you some questions. I’ve been saving up for 2 years and planning to get surgery very soon with Andreischev as well.


Thanks bro, will definitely be worth it. But no I'm not on discord


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## Toogoodtobetrue (Sep 20, 2020)

jj43 said:


> I'm gonna a chin wing surgery to fix my recessed chin and improve my gonial angle


Bro please keep us all updated!) It is damn interesting how the whole thing will be going!

Isn't that insane that you choose to fly to Russia for this type of surgery and choose the Russian doctor among so many others?))))


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## jj43 (Sep 20, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> Bro please keep us all updated!) It is damn interesting how the whole thing will be going!
> 
> Isn't that insane that you choose to fly to Russia for this type of surgery and choose the Russian doctor among so many others?))))


Sure bro. I mean he's one of few surgeons who actually do it and for a good price and results


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## jj43 (Sep 20, 2020)

PapiMew said:


> Are you from the states? I am and am super nervous about the whole thing 😅


Nope I'm from the UK. Yeah I get you😂


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## Deleted member 4609 (Sep 20, 2020)

chinwing is just way better in every form. bimax is expensive and very hard to get ultimately. are you eastern european op? you use no : in your smile emojis so I know


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## crazyfishy (Sep 20, 2020)

can you do chin wing before bi max?


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## Eduardo DOV (Oct 27, 2020)

Toogoodtobetrue said:


> View attachment 676028
> 
> Left is what Eppley modeled for me and right is Andreishchev.


I can do a much better side profile and tell you what to do


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## maxillalefort (Oct 27, 2020)

Latebloomer10 said:


> you will never have a lower third like cavill because he has slight sfs and you don’t


What is SFS?


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## Chadelite (Nov 13, 2020)

jj43 said:


> I'm actually going to have a chin wing with him in a few days now, don't mind letting you know how he is.


 Bro how was the chin wing tbh


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## jj43 (Nov 13, 2020)

The night after the surgery was very painful, wasn't able to sleep the whole night even after taking loads of painkillers and morphine injections but thought it would be worth it once I start to see results. It was looking very good after about 5 weeks post surgery, however I noticed slight asymmetry which I expected to go down in time. However I'm about 7 weeks post op and I have started to notice it more, one side definitely seems to have a lot of inflammation (Not sure if its infected or something.) Dr andrei told me to go to a dentist for intraoral photos and send them to him which I've done and just waiting to hear from him.


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## MedMaxxing (Nov 13, 2020)

jj43 said:


> The night after the surgery was very painful, wasn't able to sleep the whole night even after taking loads of painkillers and morphine injections but thought it would be worth it once I start to see results. It was looking very good after about 5 weeks post surgery, however I noticed slight asymmetry which I expected to go down in time. However I'm about 7 weeks post op and I have started to notice it more, one side definitely seems to have a lot of inflammation (Not sure if its infected or something.) Dr andrei told me to go to a dentist for intraoral photos and send them to him which I've done and just waiting to hear from him.



Any noticeable increase in Bigonial width?


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## jj43 (Nov 13, 2020)

MedMaxxing said:


> Any noticeable increase in Bigonial width?


Yeah there is, especially on the side which has no inflammation, Is a huge difference.


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## MedMaxxing (Nov 13, 2020)

jj43 said:


> Yeah there is, especially on the side which has no inflammation, Is a huge difference.



Did you specify with him beforehand that it would be a cut closer to the gonion or just the standard chin wing? Lifefuel regardless. I am trying to get this done after MSE before I get Bimax done.


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## jj43 (Nov 13, 2020)

I just asked for a standard chin wing, another benefit is that it improved my zygos as the skin being stretched has made my cheeks more hollow. Sounds like a good plan bro, I just pray that my problem is only due to inflammation and will go soon.


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## Carl-o (Nov 13, 2020)

Latebloomer10 said:


> you will never have a lower third like cavill because he has slight sfs and you don’t


a what? sfs ?


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## MedMaxxing (Nov 13, 2020)

jj43 said:


> I just asked for a standard chin wing, another benefit is that it improved my zygos as the skin being stretched has made my cheeks more hollow. Sounds like a good plan bro, I just pray that my problem is only due to inflammation and will go soon.



I was looking in to Andreishchev. Prices were decent I am assuming? I also heard good things about post surgery hospitality as well.


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## jj43 (Nov 13, 2020)

MedMaxxing said:


> I was looking in to Andreishchev. Prices were decent I am assuming? I also heard good things about post surgery hospitality as well.


Yeah they are tbh and the clinic room was probably nicer than the 4 star hotel room I stayed at also had a nurse who I could call like every 30 mins all through the night to ask for more drugs 😂


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## MedMaxxing (Nov 13, 2020)

jj43 said:


> Yeah they are tbh and the clinic room was probably nicer than the 4 star hotel room I stayed at also had a nurse who I could call like every 30 mins all through the night to ask for more drugs 😂



I am about to consult with him after my MSE then 😂


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## freeone12 (Nov 13, 2020)

Jj43 inform us how you deal wirh assymetry, do u plan to show us b/a?


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