# lips / mouth megathread



## paulie_walnuts (Jul 13, 2019)

the lips and mouth region...compared to eyes, zygos and jawline and often overseen feature which is nontheless as an important as the just mentioned zygos



> The lips are of great importance for the perception of beauty by humans. The appearance of the lips in part determines the attractiveness of a person’s face. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5952987/



thus i decided the mega thread where can discuss all relevant topics regarding lips - such as: is there even a ideal lip shape for males? are fuller of medium lips more attractive? why does this one guy from here who posts fitness videos has the lip area of an old man? are my lips subhuman - rate my lips? does jaw or chin surgery affect the shape of my lips? do i get nicer lips if i keep sucking nibbas dick?

as a start a bit input








































> In youthful Caucasians, the ideal ratio of the vertical height of the upper lip to that of the lower lip is 1:1.6 28. The fundamental proportions of the lips change as a person ages, with lengthening of the cutaneous portion of the upper lip and volume loss and thinning of the upper lip vermilion. Gravity, osteoporosis, dental changes, maxillomandibular bony resorption and further soft-tissue volume loss at the oral commissures cause the commissures to turn downward in a perpetual frown. While aging Caucasian males and females have similar hard and soft-tissue volume loss, with thinning of the vermilion and cutaneous portions of the lips, males generally do not develop rhytides of the upper and lower lips. This is because their skin is thicker, with more subcutaneous fat surrounding the terminal hair follicles (as opposed to the fine vellus hairs in females) 13.
> 
> Certain ethnic groups, especially Blacks, genetically have greater lip volume. Because the increased melanin in their skin is protective throughout their lifetimes, the skin of Blacks is less prone to solar elastosis. Consequently, they rarely develop radial rhytides in the lips and their vermilion tends to retain its volume even subsequent to aging 13.
> 
> ...






> *The big man has a big mouth: Mouth width correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance*
> 
> 
> 
> ...








3D Facial Norms Summary Statistics


FaceBase is the primary data resource for craniofacial researchers worldwide.



www.facebase.org


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## FatJattMofo (Jul 13, 2019)

2 inch mouth width is that good?


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 13, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> 2 inch mouth width is that good?


it depends on your face. its all about ratios. and how your lips are shaped, how full they are etc


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## FatJattMofo (Jul 13, 2019)

paulie_walnuts said:


> it depends on your face. its all about ratios. and how your lips are shaped, how full they are etc


looks kinda small to me


paulie_walnuts said:


> it depends on your face. its all about ratios. and how your lips are shaped, how full they are etc


pretty full lips.


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 13, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> looks kinda small to me



it might be over then. or should i say ogre?






very good mouth width which display leadership abilities. however the lips are to thin, vertical too short and there is no cupid bow which means his lipe shape is far from ideal


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## FatJattMofo (Jul 13, 2019)

paulie_walnuts said:


> it might be over then. or should i say ogre?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so someone like tyson beckford has an ideal mouth?


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 13, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> so someone like tyson beckford has an ideal mouth?


In youthful Caucasians, the ideal ratio of the vertical height of the upper lip to that of the lower lip is 1:1.6. Blacks genetically have greater lip volume.

for a black / afro asian yes. if he were a white guy he would look like faggot


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## FatJattMofo (Jul 13, 2019)

paulie_walnuts said:


> In youthful Caucasians, the ideal ratio of the vertical height of the upper lip to that of the lower lip is 1:1.6. Blacks genetically have greater lip volume.
> 
> for a black / afro asian yes. if he were a white guy he would look like faggot


lmao. do agree tho he probably would.

can you show me an example of caucasian ideal? is it gandy?


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 13, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> lmao. do agree tho he probably would.
> 
> can you show me an example of caucasian ideal? is it gandy?



dude this isnt an ama thread but should be start of some collaborative thread


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## FatJattMofo (Jul 13, 2019)

paulie_walnuts said:


> dude this isnt an ama thread but should be start of some collaborative thread



showing examples helps visualize the ideal for people looking for or trying to get it


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 13, 2019)

FatJattMofo said:


> showing examples helps visualize the ideal for people looking for or trying to get it



legit but im not a infallible luminary on that topic myself so i avoid posting "ideal" lips.

id say jensen ackles, chris evans or jude law have good lips

and tyson beckford as a black guy


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## BigBoy (Jul 13, 2019)

I don't know if my lips are good, they're so comically small horizontally its not even funny. Is there a way to make them longer horizontally? They're already pretty plump vertically. 

But I might be being autistic and they do fit my face.


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## rockndogs (Jul 13, 2019)

Ogre thread


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## wellthatsucks (Jul 13, 2019)

Jfl at ratios. It's old school and has been debunked

Use absolute measurements instead. It can be visualized and relatable.

Anyway Chico has 50mm lip width





Vs Chris Carmack with 60mm






The wider the better for males. Highly dimorphic.

However lack of width can be compensated with full lips and shape.

If your lips are narrow and thin definitely consider getting a lip lift and stretched. It's an awful combo.


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## The Dude Abides (Jul 13, 2019)

the best part of this thread is it said


> you and you liked


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 16, 2019)

vs








i notice that bigger lower and masculine lower thirds often work well with slightly bigger lips - probably a question of harmony and hormonal balance. also note how bigger lips work better with the mixed/black guy compared to the white



> The width of the lips should be about 40% of the width of the lower face and generally equal to the distance between the medial limbi. The width-to-height ratio of the face is typically 3:4, with an oval-shaped face being the aesthetic ideal.


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 28, 2019)

damn mouth width is important look how jude law mogs is son bc of this


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## buflek (Jul 28, 2019)

paulie_walnuts said:


> damn mouth width is important look how jude law mogs is son bc of this


>smaller nose
>much nicer eyes on this pic at least
>different light and angle


buflek said:


> >smaller nose
> >much nicer eyes on this pic at least
> >different light and angle


also less bf and face shape


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## paulie_walnuts (Jul 28, 2019)

damn once notice it cant be unseen


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## Pendejo (Sep 21, 2019)

Bump


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## Eduardo DOV (Sep 21, 2019)

mine gets super red when I eat pepper

it varies, usually when my body is cold or mouth is dry they get less red i think.


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## Soalian (Aug 6, 2020)

Post-Genioplasty, my lower lip is permanently tightened and higher up due to the sutures from the surgery.

Result is a flat-looking lower lip, instead of the full, curvy shape it had before


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## homo_faber (Apr 25, 2021)

interesting

how can i bookmark a thread?


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## homo_faber (Apr 30, 2021)

bump


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## CertBroly (Apr 30, 2021)

Soalian said:


> Post-Genioplasty, my lower lip is permanently tightened and higher up due to the sutures from the surgery.
> 
> Result is a flat-looking lower lip, instead of the full, curvy shape it had before


Was it a + on the whole?


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## lilhorizontal32 (Apr 30, 2021)

Soalian said:


> Post-Genioplasty, my lower lip is permanently tightened and higher up due to the sutures from the surgery.
> 
> Result is a flat-looking lower lip, instead of the full, curvy shape it had before


Was the change big?
And do you think the trade off was worth it to get your chin augmented?


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## Soalian (May 1, 2021)

lilhorizontal32 said:


> Was the change big?
> And do you think the trade off was worth it to get your chin augmented?


Original comment was written in late August, now the tightness has subsided completely, and the new shape is not that bad, considering I had quite prominent lower lip, compared to upper lip before,

probabaly because i was recessed, now the upper/lower lip ratio is more balanced, I guess I overreacted, because I was not used to the new changes back then.

The cause of that, according to a poster on a forum about jaw surgery, is:

(Geijutsu writes): *"It does have to do with the mentalis muscle, yes. This rotates the lower lip inwards which makes it smaller. I read that some surgeons now use the V-Y suturing technique when doing a genio to avoid this."*






Why does the lower lip become smaller after genioplasty/chin wing and how much?


Why does the lower lip become smaller after genioplasty/chin wing and how much?



jawsurgeryforums.com






My surgeon was quite young too, but they must have known about all the techniques then, what use is fifteen years of school worth ohterwise? Was quite well-rated as a surgeon where I live too, despite only having a couple of years experience as a practicioner.


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## homo_faber (May 1, 2021)

how genioplasty and jaw surgery affect the lips


genioplasty Why does the lower lip become smaller after genioplasty/chin wing and how much? It does have to do with the mentalis muscle, yes. This rotates the lower lip inwards which makes it smaller. I read that some surgeons now use the V-Y suturing technique when doing a genio to avoid...




looksmax.org


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## homo_faber (May 1, 2021)

Soalian said:


> Original comment was written in late August, now the tightness has subsided completely, and the new shape is not that bad, considering I had quite prominent lower lip, compared to upper lip before,
> 
> probabaly because i was recessed, now the upper/lower lip ratio is more balanced, I guess I overreacted, because I was not used to the new changes back then.
> 
> ...


what movements did you get done with genioplasty?


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## Soalian (May 1, 2021)

homo_faber said:


> what movements did you get done with genioplasty?


Regular sliding genioplasty


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## homo_faber (May 1, 2021)

Soalian said:


> Regular sliding genioplasty


interesting, i wonder if there is a difference to lets say the shield technique


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## homo_faber (May 1, 2021)

Soalian said:


> The cause of that, according to a poster on a forum about jaw surgery, is:
> 
> (Geijutsu writes): *"It does have to do with the mentalis muscle, yes. This rotates the lower lip inwards which makes it smaller. I read that some surgeons now use the V-Y suturing technique when doing a genio to avoid this."*
> 
> ...









oh so its just about the suturing technique?


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## Soalian (May 1, 2021)

homo_faber said:


> oh so its just about the suturing technique?


 May be so.


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## homo_faber (May 1, 2021)

@lilhorizontal32


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## homo_faber (May 2, 2021)

Is it possible to define the ideal lips?




Gender differences in the lips​Anic-Milosevic et al. 30 compared the proportions of the lower facial third segments in males and females. The chin accounted for the largest segment and the lower lip height the smallest in both sexes. Although the vermilion heights of the upper and lower lips did not differ between males and females, upper and lower lip heights were larger in males. In both sexes, the height of the upper vermilion was smaller than that of the lower vermilion. The height of the vermilion of the upper lip relative to the upper lip itself was significantly greater in females than in males. The width of the lips should be about 40% of the width of the lower face and generally equal to the distance between the medial limbi. The width-to-height ratio of the face is typically 3:4, with an oval-shaped face being the aesthetic ideal.




Hier et al. 31 reported that females prefer fuller lips to a greater degree than do males. Czarnecki et al. 32 created androgynous facial silhouettes and asked 545 professionals to evaluate the profiles constructed with various lips, chin and nose relations. The authors found that a slightly convex profile was desirable for females and a straighter profile for males.
The index of the lower facial thirds was unchanged for 2500 years, without differences between males and females. However, in the average contemporary ideal, the female face is shorter than the male face, although the interpupillary distances are similar. The harmonious male face is longer than its counterpart during antiquity. The ideal lower facial height in contemporary idealised females and males is 45% and 48% of the total facial height, respectively. During antiquity, it was 50% for both. The ideal ratio chin height/total lower facial height is 70% on average, with no differences between the sexes, whereas it was 66% in the classical canon. In the lower face, the Vitruvian thirds should be adjusted so as to yield a proportion corresponding to 30% upper lip and 70% lower lip-chin. The contemporary ideal ratios are suitable for use in orthofacial planning 22.
According to Baudouin and Tiberghien 33, full lips contribute to the attractiveness of a female face, together with large eyes, prominent cheekbones, thin eyebrows and a small nose and chin. The centre of the face thus consists of baby-like features, while the periphery implies sexual maturity. In the opinion of those authors, males find this type of female face particularly alluring.
Michiels and Sather 34 attempted to describe the essentials of facial beauty in Caucasian females. They concluded that the chin, upper lip and nose were particularly important factors in the perception of attractiveness.
Conclusions​The lips are of great importance for the perception of beauty by humans. The appearance of the lips in part determines the attractiveness of a person’s face. Fuller lips in relation to facial width and greater vermilion height are perceived as attractive in females. Horizontal thirds and the golden ratio provide the proportions for beauty and attractiveness, also of the lips. The golden ratio has been used since da Vinci’s time and has been applied to describe the classic proportions of the lips relative to the rest of the face. In youthful Caucasians, the ideal ratio of the vertical height of the upper lip to that of the lower lip is 1:1.6. Blacks genetically have greater lip volume.



interesting


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## homo_faber (May 4, 2021)

The attractive lip: A photomorphometric analysis | Request PDF


Request PDF | The attractive lip: A photomorphometric analysis | Throughout literature, there are different parameters defining the ideal shape of the lip and lower third of the face. This study was conducted to... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate




www.researchgate.net












Throughout literature, there are different parameters defining the ideal shape of the lip and lower third of the face. This study was conducted to clarify what it is that makes lips attractive - and whether there are gender-related differences of an attractive lip and lower third of the face. Pictures of the lip and chin region of 176 patients were photographed in a standardised way and evaluated by 250 voluntary judges through an internet presentation by means of an analogue Likert scaling system. We found a significant higher ratio of upper vermillion height/mouth-nose distance in frontal-view images of attractive compared to unattractive female (p < 0.001) and male (p < 0.05) perioral regions. Furthermore, the ratio of upper vermillion height/chin-nose distance was significantly higher in attractive than in unattractive female (p < 0.005) and male (p < 0.05) lip and chin regions. The nasolabial angle was significantly sharper in attractive compared to unattractive female perioral regions (p < 0.001). Moreover, attractive female lip and chin regions showed a wider mentolabial angle compared to unattractive female lip and chin regions (p < 0.05). Comparing men and women, we found that attractive female perioral regions showed a higher ratio of lower vermillion height/chin-mouth distance (p < 0.05) and lower vermillion height/chin-nose distance than attractive male perioral regions (p < 0.05). We were able to define certain parameters of the lip and lower third of the face that seem to add to the attractivity of female and male individuals and prove that there are gender-related differences in form and shape of an attractive lower third of the face


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