# 30yr old redditor on tretinoin for 2yrs. Glowing skin.



## Deusmaximus (Apr 14, 2022)




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## Deleted member 17829 (Apr 14, 2022)

wait what does this tret shit do? something to do with collagen?


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## MrRubiks (Apr 14, 2022)

Predeterminism said:


> wait what does this tret shit do? something to do with collagen?


It increases cell turnover, reducing fine lines and redness.


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## dough (Apr 14, 2022)

he looks gay


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## Slob (Apr 14, 2022)

looks like a weak low t pussy 18 year old


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## chigoha (Apr 14, 2022)

we need to see his before to judge


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## Deleted member 17829 (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> It increases cell turnover, reducing fine lines and redness.


basically chemotherapy on your face then


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## Ken (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> It increases cell turnover, reducing fine lines and redness.


It also causes facial fat loss


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 14, 2022)

Predeterminism said:


> basically chemotherapy on your face then



You’re extremely smart if you didn’t look that up. 
Retinoic acid is literally used as a chemotherapy treatment.


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## goldensoul (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> It increases cell turnover, reducing fine lines and redness.


so does it affect your skin's ability to regenerate in the long run ?


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## MrRubiks (Apr 14, 2022)

goldensoul said:


> so does it affect your skin's ability to regenerate in the long run ?


Are you referring to telomere shortening? As far as I'm aware, tretinoin has only shown to have positive effects over time, but if telomere shortening is a concern, there are now supplements that can restore telomere length, supplements like epitalon, TAM818, and TA-65 to name a few.


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## MrRubiks (Apr 14, 2022)

Predeterminism said:


> basically chemotherapy on your face then


Well chemotherapy affects tissues with a faster turnover rate, which is why skin, hair, and mucosa are especially affected. I don't think it's the same thing.


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## goldensoul (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Are you referring to telomere shortening? As far as I'm aware, tretinoin has only shown to have positive effects over time, but if telomere shortening is a concern, there are now supplements that can restore telomere length, supplements like epitalon, TAM818, and TA-65 to name a few.


 I just heard a long time ago that your skin's ability to regenerate itself is not unlimited, that's why it's better to start chemical skincare later in life, but I never heard about telomere i have to check this.


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## MrRubiks (Apr 14, 2022)

goldensoul said:


> I just heard a long time ago that your skin's ability to regenerate itself is not unlimited, that's why it's better to start chemical skincare later in life, but I never heard about telomere i have to check this.


No tissue can proliferate indefinitely (without intervention). it's called the Hayflick limit.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Well chemotherapy affects tissues with a faster turnover rate, which is why skin, hair, and mucosa are especially affected. I don't think it's the same thing.






goldensoul said:


> I just heard a long time ago that your skin's ability to regenerate itself is not unlimited, that's why it's better to start chemical skincare later in life, but I never heard about telomere i have to check this.



Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> No tissue can proliferate indefinitely (without intervention). it's called the Hayflick limit.












Accutane and retin a are both active forms of vitamin a. Retin a at 0.1% (assuming the absorption rate is bw 1-8% like the studies) will show all signs of hypervitaminosis a just like accutane but at a rate of about ~12x slower.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 14, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> It increases cell turnover, reducing fine lines and redness.



It increases redness and causes sun sensitivity. Sorry I just hate misinformation


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## goldensoul (Apr 14, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.
> 
> View attachment 1635269
> View attachment 1635270
> ...


are they talking about tropical use ? that's crasy. well everything that works comes with serious risks


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 14, 2022)

goldensoul said:


> are they talking about tropical use ? that's crasy. well everything that works comes with serious risks



There’s talking about hypervitaminosis a. It’s induced by accutane more strongly than retin a bc accutane is ingested. But studies have shown that even retin a has a absorption rate of 1-8%. Meaning retin a will cause the same sides as accutane but 12 times slower.

So if a person noticed hypervitaminosis a from accutane after 2 years, he/she will notices the same effects from retin-a after 24 years of usage.

Essentially buying time b4 your liver is full and ready to fuck up your body.

Also vitamin a is fat soluble so there is no escape. You have to bear the side effects


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## MrRubiks (Apr 14, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> It increases redness and causes sun sensitivity. Sorry I just hate misinformation


That's not misinformation.


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## lonelycurry (Apr 14, 2022)

Deusmaximus said:


>



Fag


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## lonelycurry (Apr 14, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.
> 
> View attachment 1635269
> View attachment 1635270
> ...


Why are you going schizo over a topical acne medication. Your nuts man It doesn’t do anything


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## poopmaster22 (Apr 14, 2022)

Insane he looks like a ten year old. I’ve tried tret but it makes me dry and redness irritated. I must have shitty skin because I have never met anyone this happens too.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 14, 2022)

maximumcoper_gaming said:


> Why are you going schizo over a topical acne medication. Your nuts man It doesn’t do anything



Cognitive dissonance.

Sorry for destroying your next cope


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## AscendingHero (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> There’s talking about hypervitaminosis a. It’s induced by accutane more strongly than retin a bc accutane is ingested. But studies have shown that even retin a has a absorption rate of 1-8%. Meaning retin a will cause the same sides as accutane but 12 times slower.
> 
> So if a person noticed hypervitaminosis a from accutane after 2 years, he/she will notices the same effects from retin-a after 24 years of usage.
> 
> ...


I'll just use retin a sporadically and only on important occassions and i'll discontinue in a few yrs when i find and/or better collagen maxxing protocls are available

money opens door buyos


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## MrRubiks (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> So if a person noticed hypervitaminosis a from accutane after 2 years, he/she will notices the same effects from retin-a after 24 years of usage.
> 
> Essentially buying time b4 your liver is full and ready to fuck up your body.


You're using faulty logic. If you have toxicity at a certain dose and a therapeutic effect at, say, 1/4 that dose, it doesn't mean that toxicity is just delayed 4x as long. There's also an output rate, and it's possible to achieve a steady state.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> You're using faulty logic. If you have toxicity at a certain dose and a therapeutic effect at, say, 1/4 that dose, it doesn't mean that toxicity is just delayed 4x as long. There's also an output rate, and it's possible to achieve a steady state.



False. Vitamin a is fat soluble. It BUILDS up to toxic amounts bc the liver STORES it. It’s a liver toxin after a certain point.

Your claim presupposes that there is a built in detoxing mechanism that would prevent from side effects. You claiming that it’s possible to achieve a therapeutic effect completely ignores countless research I posted which explains the entire mechanism being identical to that of chemotherapy drugs. ALL vitamin a ends up in the liver where’s it stored b4 further usage. Toxic levels wreak havoc on the body as the liver has no further need for said vitamin. This is why accutane side effects range from ALL across the body. Hypervitaminosis a attacks the entire metabolism and wrecks havoc on multiple systems (skeletal, nervous etc.)

Therapeutic levels or micro dosing or using retin a as a spot treatment would then negate the purpose of my original argument which was that this is not for everyday usage.


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## Baldingman1998 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.
> 
> View attachment 1635269
> View attachment 1635270
> ...


Just use it twice or 3 times week. To give your body time to get rid of excess vit a in the long term


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Baldingman1998 said:


> Just use it twice or 3 times week. To give your body time to get rid of excess vit a in the long term



Indeed retin a was initially designed for spot treatment sparingly (upon notice of a acne breakout for example)

For people with cognitive dissonance I suggest using twice a weak at the weakest strength (.25%) and searching for a healthier alternative (glycolic acid, bakuchiol)


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## Tobias Fünke (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Indeed retin a was initially designed for spot treatment sparingly (upon notice of a acne breakout for example)
> 
> For people with cognitive dissonance I suggest using twice a weak at the weakest strength (.25%) and searching for a healthier alternative (glycolic acid, bakuchiol)


Would it make sense to go slightly under the RDA of vitamin A from diet (to let's say 70%) in order to reduce the stress on liver if tret is being used?


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Tobias Fünke said:


> Would it make sense to go slightly under the RDA of vitamin A from diet (to let's say 70%) in order to reduce the stress on liver if tret is being used?



Yes most certainly. Food has retinol which gets converted to retinoic acid by the body. So using accutane/retin a AND having a diet high in retinol consumption (fortified milk, tons of eggs etc) is a recipe for disaster (long term)


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## BoneDensity (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> False. Vitamin a is fat soluble. It BUILDS up to toxic amounts bc the liver STORES it. It’s a liver toxin after a certain point.
> 
> Your claim presupposes that there is a built in detoxing mechanism that would prevent from side effects. You claiming that it’s possible to achieve a therapeutic effect completely ignores countless research I posted which explains the entire mechanism being identical to that of chemotherapy drugs. ALL vitamin a ends up in the liver where’s it stored b4 further usage. Toxic levels wreak havoc on the body as the liver has no further need for said vitamin. This is why accutane side effects range from ALL across the body. Hypervitaminosis a attacks the entire metabolism and wrecks havoc on multiple systems (skeletal, nervous etc.)
> 
> Therapeutic levels or micro dosing or using retin a as a spot treatment would then negate the purpose of my original argument which was that this is not for everyday usage.



Does this mean megadoising beta catotene will cause hypervitaminosis? >50k IU a day


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

BoneDensity said:


> Does this mean megadoising beta catotene will cause hypervitaminosis? >50k IU a day



Retinol and beta carotene are different forms of vitamin a

Beta carotene will lead to skin color changes but have a less likelihood off triggering hypervitaminosis a


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## BoneDensity (Apr 15, 2022)

BoneDensity said:


> Does this mean megadoising beta catotene will cause hypervitaminosis? >50k IU a day


Never mind just read that cartenoids don't cause thisb


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## fauxfox (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinol and beta carotene are different forms of vitamin a
> 
> Beta carotene will lead to skin color changes but have a less likelihood off triggering hypervitaminosis a


You seem knowledgeable about Accutane. I took it for 6 months at 16 and didn't grow a single inch after/fell into deep depression. I feel like if I never took this shit I'd reach my genetic potential, legit lost the spark in me. Plus I have osteopenia now as a 21 yr old JFL likely due to accutane.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

fauxfox said:


> You seem knowledgeable about Accutane. I took it for 6 months at 16 and didn't grow a single inch after/fell into deep depression. I feel like if I never took this shit I'd reach my genetic potential, legit lost the spark in me. Plus I have osteopenia now as a 21 yr old JFL likely due to accutane.



All sides of hypervitaminosis A.

What you can do is go on a low vitamin a diet. No eggs, No milk (substitute with calcium carbonate or get the calcium from sardines etc).






This is how I reversed all side effects that I personally experienced.

Also since you have osteopenia you need to optimize calcium metabolism.

Calcium metabolism is: having enough vitamin d, vitamin k2, phosphorous and magnesium (as all these minerals and vitamin aid in metabolizing and making use of calcium).


Just dropping the eggs and milk by itself would be huge (I wouldn’t advise this extreme of a measure to anyone but since your problems are 100% in sync with Retinoic acid toxicity you need to detox all vitamin a rich foods even if some of them are healthy).


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

@fauxfox


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## MrRubiks (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.
> 
> View attachment 1635269
> View attachment 1635270
> ...


Could you provide a link to the full article? Earlier you extrapolated based off a linear change, but there are problems with that logic. I understand obviously that fat-soluble vitamins are much more likely to cause hypervitaminosis than those that are water soluble, but it still seems likely that the body could achieve a steady state, thus avoiding toxicity.

Even one of the pictures you posted included a part where the side effects resolved quickly after discontinuing treatment. It seems like the body has a decent elimination rate.


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## fauxfox (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> All sides of hypervitaminosis A.
> 
> What you can do is go on a low vitamin a diet. No eggs, No milk (substitute with calcium carbonate or get the calcium from sardines etc).
> 
> ...


Just to let you know I'm 21 now so it's been 5 years since then, not sure if that's enough time to recover. I already don't drink milk even though I'm lactose tolerant, I'll start avoiding eggs from now on though. I supplement 2100 IU vitamin D a day and 200mg magnesium a day. I'll look into the other 2 supplements you mentioned.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Could you provide a link to the full article? Earlier you extrapolated based off a linear change, but there are problems with that logic. I understand obviously that fat-soluble vitamins are much more likely to cause hypervitaminosis than those that are water soluble, but it still seems likely that the body could achieve a steady state, thus avoiding toxicity.



Which one specifically these are different research papers complied into one post.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

fauxfox said:


> Just to let you know I'm 21 now so it's been 5 years since then, not sure if that's enough time to recover. I already don't drink milk even though I'm lactose tolerant, I'll start avoiding eggs from now on though. I supplement 2100 IU vitamin D a day and 200mg magnesium a day. I'll look into the other 2 supplements you mentioned.



Good 👍. 
Optimal vitamin d supplementation
For magnesium the best one is magnesium chloride. It had practically cured all teeth sensitivity that I experienced with hypervitaminosis a. 

For phosphorus you get it pretty much every source. So no need to supplement 

And lastly for k2 avocados are a great source!


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## closedplatecel (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Indeed retin a was initially designed for spot treatment sparingly (upon notice of a acne breakout for example)
> 
> For people with cognitive dissonance I suggest using twice a weak at the weakest strength (.25%) and searching for a healthier alternative (glycolic acid, bakuchiol)



How about every other day at 0.1?

And cycle 2 months on 1 month off


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

closedplatecel said:


> How about every other day at 0.1?
> 
> And cycle 2 months on 1 month off



Would not recommend, twice a week at the lowest dosage 0.25% (with your cycle) seems better since people I’m sure already have a high retinol diet (lots of milk and eggs etc)


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## Mysticcc (Apr 15, 2022)

I got to use 1% aswell but it makes my skin so fucking irritated


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Could you provide a link to the full article? Earlier you extrapolated based off a linear change, but there are problems with that logic. I understand obviously that fat-soluble vitamins are much more likely to cause hypervitaminosis than those that are water soluble, but it still seems likely that the body could achieve a steady state, thus avoiding toxicity.
> 
> Even one of the pictures you posted included a part where the side effects resolved quickly after discontinuing treatment. It seems like the body has a decent elimination rate.



I saw that you edited your post so I want to answer your second paragraph.

Retinoic acid cessation would obviously result in lowered side effects as the overall metabolism is under less pressure to detox. Less havoc. Signs of heavy detox include orange stools and metallic smelling sweat etc.
The younger/healthier you are the higher the rate of said detox. Still the host is under unnecessary burden. Not to even mention the telomere shortening angle.

Also,















All to have skin that looks baby smooth? Ha the lengths people go to justify certain extremely horrible habits


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## Mayorga2.0 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Accutane and retin a are both active forms of vitamin a. Retin a at 0.1% (assuming the absorption rate is bw 1-8% like the studies) will show all signs of hypervitaminosis a just like accutane but at a rate of about ~12x slower.


Are you confusing tissue absorption with systemic absorption? Do you have a source on isotret/tret going systemic in any significant quantity, because the only studies I can find show that using 10g (yes, _ten fucking grams) _of *0.1% *isotret cream did not increase the plasma concentration of related metabolites above the 2SD.


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## Deleted member 14077 (Apr 15, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> Are you referring to telomere shortening? As far as I'm aware, tretinoin has only shown to have positive effects over time, but if telomere shortening is a concern, there are now supplements that can restore telomere length, supplements like epitalon, TAM818, and TA-65 to name a few.


You are 1000iq cel


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mayorga2.0 said:


> Are you confusing tissue absorption with systemic absorption? Do you have a source on isotret/tret going systemic in any significant quantity, because the only studies I can find show that using 10g (yes, _ten fucking grams) _of *0.1% *isotret cream did not increase the plasma concentration of related metabolites above the 2SD.


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## Soalian (Apr 15, 2022)

I'm about to order some Tret again (am 29, did one tub Retin-A when I was 27),

and try to get my skin back from the Abyss somehow, cuz I fucked it up with a 4-week corticosteroid topical course for four weeks on noae area last for nose skin thinning.

I think I'm one of the lowest-inhib guys on this forum when it comes to trying shit out, unfortunately I'm also stupid af smh, so all in all very dangerous combination lol


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## MrRubiks (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> I saw that you edited your post so I want to answer your second paragraph.
> 
> Retinoic acid cessation would obviously result in lowered side effects as the overall metabolism is under less pressure to detox. Less havoc. Signs of heavy detox include orange stools and metallic smelling sweat etc.
> The younger/healthier you are the higher the rate of said detox. Still the host is under unnecessary burden. Not to even mention the telomere shortening angle.
> ...


I'm going to have to do more research. The effects that you've included in your post--are those from topical use? That's definitely concerning. I'm always open to having my mind changed.

*edit* Okay, it looks like there's a systemic absorption rate from topical use. I see.

*edit again* At the very least, for now I'm going to reduce my use to select areas of my face, like around the eyes. That alone would drastically reduce absorption.


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## Mayorga2.0 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> View attachment 1636145


whole study pls, such screenshotted excerpts add nothing of value


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## MrRubiks (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Which one specifically these are different research papers complied into one post.


Whichever you think would be the most informative, if it's not too much trouble. I appreciate it.


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## House Lannister (Apr 15, 2022)

JFL glowing skin somehow failos this nigga


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mayorga2.0 said:


> whole study pls, such screenshotted excerpts add nothing of value




Systemic Absorption of Retinoic Acid​Thomas J. Franz &
Paul A. Lehman








Remember the vitamin a content acquired through food HAS to be converted into retinoic acid. Be it fortified milk or eggs, the retinol content has to be converted by the body into active form (retinoic acid).

Meaning you can’t extrapolate 14 ug/day and do a false comparison with foods with higher retinol content as latter isn’t going directly into your body in the active form


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> There’s talking about hypervitaminosis a. It’s induced by accutane more strongly than retin a bc accutane is ingested. But studies have shown that even retin a has a absorption rate of 1-8%. Meaning retin a will cause the same sides as accutane but 12 times slower.
> 
> So if a person noticed hypervitaminosis a from accutane after 2 years, he/she will notices the same effects from retin-a after 24 years of usage.
> 
> ...


can you stop posting this retarded shit that I've debunked 20 times already?


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

PURE ARYAN GENETICS said:


> can you stop posting this retarded shit that I've debunked 20 times already?



You haven’t debunked anything. Last I remember you went quiet….

Absolutely silent


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (Apr 15, 2022)

House Lannister said:


> JFL glowing skin somehow failos this nigga


that's because he's a soft bitch boy


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## Mayorga2.0 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Systemic Absorption of Retinoic Acid​Thomas J. Franz &
> Paul A. Lehman
> 
> View attachment 1636262
> ...


14 micrograms appears to be negligible as "the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for men and women is 900 and 700 μg retinol activity equivalents (RAE)/day, respectively"


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mayorga2.0 said:


> 14 micrograms appears to be negligible as "the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for men and women is 900 and 700 μg retinol activity equivalents (RAE)/day, respectively"


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## Mayorga2.0 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> View attachment 1636288


give info on the conversion rate, that is, what is the retinol equivalent of 14micrograms of ATRA.

edit: found something myself - it appears that a rough estimate would be 10:1 retinol to ATRA (huge caveat is that there is not much data on this and it's going to be tissue specific ofc), that means that 14micrograms of ATRA is roughly equivalent to 140micrograms of retinol, way below the average amount that is consumed daily.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mayorga2.0 said:


> give info on the conversion rate, that is, what is the retinol equivalent of 14micrograms of ATRA.
> 
> edit: found something myself - it appears that a rough estimate would be 10:1 retinol to ATRA (huge caveat is that there is not much data on this and it's going to be tissue specific ofc), that means that 14micrograms of ATRA is roughly equivalent to 140micrograms of retinol, way below the average amount that is consumed daily.


Retinoids: active molecules influencing skin structure formation in cosmetic and dermatological treatments​Malwina Zasada and Elżbieta Budzisz








​“Rough estimate”- wrong. Let’s not cut out the part where it says no one has clinically demonstrated the conversion rate.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

“More research needed”


Let’s not even factor in the strength (0.025% vs .1%), carrier absorption rate (higher absorption with moisturizers)


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## Mayorga (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinoids: active molecules influencing skin structure formation in cosmetic and dermatological treatments​Malwina Zasada and Elżbieta Budzisz
> 
> 
> View attachment 1636338
> ...


So we both have nothing on the conversion rate, "stronger" in the sense that you've posted it doesn't really mean anything, and is still way below the dietary average even if we take the worst case scenario 20x figure


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## PURE ARYAN GENETICS (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> You haven’t debunked anything. Last I remember you went quiet….
> 
> Absolutely silent


The next morning you will find that Jew has not even the slightest memory of yesterday and continues to repeat his old mischievous nonsense as if nothing at all had happened. When pressed about the previous conversation, he would pretend astonishment and could remember nothing at all except the truth of his statements, which he felt had been proven the day before.

Frequently I was simply paralyzed. It was hard to know what to admire the most: their fluency or their artistry in lying. Gradually, I began to hate them.


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mayorga said:


> So we both have nothing on the conversion rate, "stronger" in the sense that you've posted it doesn't really mean anything, and is still way below the dietary average even if we take the worst case scenario 20x figure



It’s added along with the dietary average. Hence why some have side effects earlier than others





Case: women cures ra upon cessation of eggs and milk from her daily diet.
Egg yolk and fortified milk are full of retinol content way below the FDA daily average. 


What you’re not taking into account is the variance in diet. Those already predisposed to a high vitamin a diet and build up are more susceptible to side effects.


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## eduardkoopman (Apr 15, 2022)

House Lannister said:


> JFL glowing skin somehow failos this nigga


Overly oily skin. he looks shiny like a bowling ball.

Very Oily shiny skin = a looksmin.
Very dry dead looking skin = a looksmin.

One needs to be, in between those 2. Radiant skin, bit not oily shiny or dull dry looking.









SkinMaxxing: Matte skin, Oily-shiny skin, Radiant-skin.


Skin "Shinyness"/glowing Study and Attractiveness. 3 type of skin shines were shown. A: Matte B: Oily/Shiny C: "Radiant" Example of what each shine levelloosk like: Results on attractiveness rating in this Study: the used rating scale was: 1 (“very unattractive”), 2 (“unattractive”), 3...




looksmax.org


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mayorga said:


> So we both have nothing on the conversion rate, "stronger" in the sense that you've posted it doesn't really mean anything, and is still way below the dietary average even if we take the worst case scenario 20x figure



It means a whole lot. 

1:10 and 1:20 are not statistically insignificant. 

Adding in the element of clinical demonstration that hasn’t been accurately determined.
Other factors like peoples lifestyle choices (vitamin a dietary consumption, RA buildup, increased absorption via moisturizer/occlusive, strength differences .025% vs .1%)


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## eduardkoopman (Apr 15, 2022)

Predeterminism said:


> something to do with collagen?


*Retin-a (tretinoin): 80% increase*
Treatment of photodamaged skin with tretinoin produced an 80 percent increase in collagen I formation, as compared with a 14 percent decrease in collagen formation with the use of vehicle alone (P = 0.006).
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308193290803


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## randomvanish (Apr 15, 2022)

MrRubiks said:


> You're using faulty logic. If you have toxicity at a certain dose and a therapeutic effect at, say, 1/4 that dose, it doesn't mean that toxicity is just delayed 4x as long. There's also an output rate, and it's possible to achieve a steady state.


I struggled to understand what you suggest for what rate or amount of usage would be optimal for health related issues?


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## Mr.cope (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Indeed retin a was initially designed for spot treatment sparingly (upon notice of a acne breakout for example)
> 
> For people with cognitive dissonance I suggest using twice a weak at the weakest strength (.25%) and searching for a healthier alternative (glycolic acid, bakuchiol)


The weakest strength is (.007%)


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

Mr.cope said:


> The weakest strength is (.007%)



Never seen a OTC concentration below .025%

Unless you’re talking about custom formulations designed by companies like curology or musely


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## randomvanish (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Systemic Absorption of Retinoic Acid​Thomas J. Franz &
> Paul A. Lehman
> 
> View attachment 1636262
> ...


but there is not effective way to like a young teenage skinned besides retin a 

you better give me some decent & healthier alternative bro


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> but there is not effective way to like a young teenage skinned besides retin a
> 
> you better give me some decent & healthier alternative bro



Glycolic acid
Bakuchiol

Or use retin a as a spot treatment. And not a I’m gonna rub this pea sized amount all over my face and build up to the highest concentration everyday.


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## randomvanish (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Glycolic acid
> Bakuchiol


are they proven to be healthy for daily usage?


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## Deleted member 16834 (Apr 15, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> are they proven to be healthy for daily usage?



Yes glycolic acid sub 10% and bakuchiol can be used daily. Though I’d pick one as they both have a similar mechanism of action


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## rax1337 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinol and beta carotene are different forms of vitamin a
> 
> Beta carotene will lead to skin color changes but have a less likelihood off triggering hypervitaminosis a


high beta carotene intake doesnt lead to hypervitaminosis a, the enzyme that converts it to retinaldehyde downregulates in the presence of high retinoic acid.


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## rax1337 (Apr 15, 2022)

rax1337 said:


> high beta carotene intake doesnt lead to hypervitaminosis a, the enzyme that converts it to retinaldehyde downregulates in the presence of high retinoic acid.





> At the enterocyte cell wall, β-carotene is taken up by the membrane transporter protein scavenger receptor class B, type 1 (SCARB1). Absorbed β-carotene is then either incorporated as such into chylomicrons or first converted to retinal and then retinol, bound to retinol binding protein 2, before being incorporated into chylomicrons. The conversion process consists of one molecule of β-carotene cleaved by the enzyme beta-carotene 15,15'-dioxygenase, which is encoded by the BC01 gene, into two molecules of retinal. When plasma retinol is in the normal range the gene expression for SCARB1 and BC01 are suppressed, creating a feedback loop that suppresses absorption and conversion.Because of these two mechanisms, high intake will not lead to hypervitaminosis A


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## MrRubiks (Apr 15, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> I struggled to understand what you suggest for what rate or amount of usage would be optimal for health related issues?


I'm honestly not sure. My only point was that there are a lot of variable at play here. The variables are interdependent, and any curve (levels in the body over time) will almost certainly not be linear, which is what his post was implying.


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## Deleted member 7098 (Apr 15, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.
> 
> View attachment 1635269
> View attachment 1635270
> ...


@eduardkoopman thought this would protect myself from the age disease to some degree, but this doesn't look good. are you still using tret?


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## AscendingHero (Apr 19, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Yes glycolic acid sub 10% and bakuchiol can be used daily. Though I’d pick one as they both have a similar mechanism of action


For my purposes would u even recommend that? daily exfoliation which i paired glycolic acid at a high concreation?

ON the OG guide u recommend daily exfoliation for 3 months before even considering using tret let alone undertonemaxxing.




@alienmaxxer


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## MrRubiks (Apr 26, 2022)

If hypervitaminosis is the problem, couldn't it be identified with a blood test? The liver would be actively correcting it, sure, but wouldn't it still be high if intake > output? And if not, couldn't the problem easily be corrected with cycling? 

I tried to access the full articles but couldn't.


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## KingGeorgeV (May 24, 2022)

You need to get it from a doctor in my country. What a joke!


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## EverythingMattersCel (May 24, 2022)

0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.

Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.


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## KingGeorgeV (May 24, 2022)

EverythingMattersCel said:


> 0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.
> 
> Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.


maybe you should have started with Retinol. I heard it's less "strong".


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## EverythingMattersCel (May 24, 2022)

KingGeorgeV said:


> maybe you should have started with Retinol. I heard it's less "strong".


I started with 0.025% cream, then 0.05% cream and now 0.1% gel. I use it 3-4x a week.


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## Deleted member 14160 (May 24, 2022)

@alienmaxxer thankful af for your knowledge dude. Highest iq user on this forum by a mile and backs up claims with sources. @AscendingHero 
What are your thoughts on ray peat's war on pufas?


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## Deleted member 16834 (May 24, 2022)

ForeverRecession said:


> @alienmaxxer thankful af for your knowledge dude. Highest iq user on this forum by a mile and backs up claims with sources. @AscendingHero
> What are your thoughts on ray peat's war on pufas?



Caging bc I see you banned every 2 days


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## lasthope (May 24, 2022)

EverythingMattersCel said:


> 0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.
> 
> Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.


Why you are Still using it then?


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## Prettyboy (May 24, 2022)

alienmaxxer said:


> Retinol and beta carotene are different forms of vitamin a
> 
> Beta carotene will lead to skin color changes but have a less likelihood off triggering hypervitaminosis a


Triggering hypervitaminosis A through beta carotene consumption only is unlikely as it's conversion ratio is low, but it could add up on the long run to other dietary sources of retinol


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## EverythingMattersCel (May 24, 2022)

lasthope said:


> Why you are Still using it then?


Because I hate myself


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## Mongrelcel (Jun 27, 2022)

AscendingHero said:


> i'll discontinue in a few yrs when i find and/or better collagen maxxing protocls are available


have you found a good alternative yet?


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## Mogpogs (Jun 27, 2022)

Slob said:


> looks like a weak low t pussy 18 year old


That skin tho


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## Mogpogs (Jun 27, 2022)

EverythingMattersCel said:


> 0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.
> 
> Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.


Did you combine it with a god moisturiser to restore your skin barrier? Also youre only supposed to use it 2-3 times A week i read. Did it really not help with acne scars?


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## EdouardManlet (Jun 27, 2022)

Any downsides to this shit?


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## fuckedupmanlet (Jun 27, 2022)

dough said:


> he looks gay


It’s because he’s fat, has a round hairline and gay haircut. Nothing to do with his skin.


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## TUSSELEIF (Jun 27, 2022)

EdouardManlet said:


> Any downsides to this shit?


You might get some irritation on your skin, red skin, dry eyes, I am on it rn (0.05) and have a bit of irritation, but getting collagen production and young healthy smooth skin far outweights a little bit of irritation, and your skin will feel nicer after putting it on. I’m sure the irritation will go away eventually


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## TUSSELEIF (Jun 27, 2022)

Another one


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