# Training hypofunctional jaw muscles results in craniofacial growth in adults



## betamanlet (Nov 26, 2020)

> The experimental group received soft diet for a prolonged period, so that the animals developed weak masticatory muscles. A control group received ordinary hard food during the whole experimental period (27 weeks). After 21 weeks when the animals had nearly ceased their body growth the rats in the experimental group were divided into two groups. One group continued with soft diet until the end of the experiment (hypofunctional group). The other group received ordinary hard food to get the possibility to retrain their masticatory muscles (rehabilitation group). At week 21 and at the end of the experimental period (week 27), axial cephalograms were taken. Fourteen landmarks were defined to measure seven transverse distances of the skull. *The increase of the anterior zygomatic arch width and interzygomatic width during the experimental period were larger in the rehabilitation group compared to both the normal and the hypofunctional group.*











The effect of retraining hypofunctional jaw muscles on the transverse skull dimensions of adult rats - PubMed


Retraining of masticatory muscles in adult rats leads to increase of some transverse cranial dimensions.




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov







> Masticatory functional changes have been shown to influence the quantity and quality of the alveolar bone during growth. This study was designed to investigate the effect of masticatory function rehabilitation on the morphology and the trabecular architecture of the mandibular alveolar bone after cessation of growth. Forty-four Sprague-Dawley male rats received soft diet in order to develop masticatory muscle hypofunction. After 21 weeks, after cessation of growth, the animals were divided into two groups: the first group continued receiving soft diet for six more weeks (hypofunction group), while the second group changed to ordinary (hard) diet with the aim to restore a normal masticatory function (rehabilitation group). A third group of 16 male rats (normal group) received ordinary (hard) diet during the whole experimental period and served as control. Micro-tomographic histomorphometry was used to evaluate the architecture of the mandibular alveolar bone (e.g. bone volume fraction, trabecular thickness, trabecular separation, etc.) at the end of the experiment (27 weeks). The height and width of the alveolar process were measured as well. The alveolar process trabecular bone volume fraction (BV/TV) was lower for the animals of the hypofunctional group as compared to those of the normal (p<0.01) and the rehabilitation (p<0.05) groups. Despite the significant improvement observed in the rehabilitation group, their BV/TV was lower in comparison to the normal group (p<0.05) at the end of this experiment. All the other micro-tomographic parameters followed the same pattern of change between groups; values of the rehabilitation group were between the values of the two other groups, differing significantly from both of them. The alveolar process was significantly shorter in the normal group in comparison to both the hypofunctional and rehabilitation groups (p<0.05). *On the other hand, both the normal and rehabilitation groups were had a wider alveolar process than the hypofunctional group* (p<0.05). *Both alveolar height and width were significantly correlated with all micro-tomographic parameters under study*. *The rehabilitation of masticatory function led to a significant improvement of alveolar bone architecture in adult rats, although the negative effects of hypofunction were not totally reversed during the period under study.*











Rehabilitation of masticatory function improves the alveolar bone architecture of the mandible in adult rats - PubMed


Masticatory functional changes have been shown to influence the quantity and quality of the alveolar bone during growth. This study was designed to investigate the effect of masticatory function rehabilitation on the morphology and the trabecular architecture of the mandibular alveolar bone...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov








> *Mechanistically, increased mastication induced Insulin–like growth factor (IGF)-1 and suppressed sclerostin in osteocytes. IGF-1 enhanced osteoblastogenesis of the cells derived from tendon. Together, these findings indicate that the osteocytes balance the cytokine expression upon the mechanical loading of increased mastication, in order to enhance bone formation. This bone formation leads to morphological change in the jawbone, so that the bone adapts to the mechanical environment to which it is exposed.*











Forceful mastication activates osteocytes and builds a stout jawbone - Scientific Reports


Bone undergoes a constant reconstruction process of resorption and formation called bone remodeling, so that it can endure mechanical loading. During food ingestion, masticatory muscles generate the required masticatory force. The magnitude of applied masticatory force has long been believed to...




www.nature.com


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## Deleted member 7776 (Nov 26, 2020)

cope i got nothing out of chewing


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## Deleted member 685 (Nov 26, 2020)

Won'tStopNoodling said:


> cope i got nothing out of chewing


Cause studyhacks is an adult man


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## sandcelmuttcel (Nov 26, 2020)

wow nice find


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## Deleted member 3043 (Nov 26, 2020)

is chewing a meme for better lower eyelid tho? any study in that regard?


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## betamanlet (Nov 26, 2020)

Won'tStopNoodling said:


> cope i got nothing out of chewing


I have found that it is easy to unwittingly chew in an ineffective way when your jaws are not in an optimal position to begin with. Rather than half-assedly pressing the mandible up against the maxilla, you have to forcefully grind forward against the maxillary molars with your mandible, since such force vector is what will engage the masseters and pterygoids. Otherwise your masticatory effort will be led by the temporali, which will at worst result in a backward bite, the consequences of which are TMJ issues and mandibular recession.



streege said:


> is chewing a meme for better lower eyelid tho? any study in that regard?


Are you talking about scleral exposure or excessive eye-bags? I'd imagine that anything that impacts the zygomatic arches will indirectly improve orbital support too. For what it's worth, elimination of eyebags was possibly the first benefit I noticed from mewing.


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## Deleted member 3043 (Nov 26, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> I have found that it is easy to unwittingly chew in an ineffective way when your jaws are not in an optimal position to begin with. Rather than half-assedly pressing the mandible up against the maxilla, you have to forcefully grind forward against the maxillary molars with your mandible, since such force vector is what will engage the masseters and pterygoids. Otherwise your masticatory effort will be led by the temporali, which will at worst result in a backward bite, the consequences of which are TMJ issues and mandibular recession.
> 
> 
> Are you talking about scleral exposure or excessive eye-bags? I'd imagine that anything that impacts the zygomatic arches will indirectly improve orbital support too. For what it's worth, elimination of eyebags was possibly the first benefit I noticed from mewing.


no i'm talking about scleral show.... i have it slightly... i guess it's due to my phenotype that is present in warm area compared to nordic ones. Life is unfair, i really have most of bones. idk.


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## Deleted member 1751 (Nov 26, 2020)

So what should I do? Buy chewing gum and start chewing??


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## jackieboy21 (Nov 26, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> I have found that it is easy to unwittingly chew in an ineffective way when your jaws are not in an optimal position to begin with. Rather than half-assedly pressing the mandible up against the maxilla, you have to forcefully grind forward against the maxillary molars with your mandible, since such force vector is what will engage the masseters and pterygoids. Otherwise your masticatory effort will be led by the temporali, which will at worst result in a backward bite, the consequences of which are TMJ issues and mandibular recession.
> 
> 
> Are you talking about scleral exposure or excessive eye-bags? I'd imagine that anything that impacts the zygomatic arches will indirectly improve orbital support too. For what it's worth, elimination of eyebags was possibly the first benefit I noticed from mewing.


So how am i supposed to chew?


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## Deleted member 685 (Nov 26, 2020)

jackieboy21 said:


> So how am i supposed to chew?


Just chew, it doesn't matter as long as it's hard food for prolonged periods


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## homo_faber (Nov 26, 2020)

are there also studies on humans or just on rats? if humans were rats hairloss would have been saved by now, so you cant really transfer everything 1 to 1

i dont deny positive aspects of hard chewing but i really doubt signifcant and noticable effects will be seen in human adults

correct me if im wrong


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## jackieboy21 (Nov 26, 2020)

homo_faber said:


> are there also studies on humans or just on rats? if humans were rats hairloss would have been saved by now, so you cant really transfer everything 1 to 1
> 
> i dont deny positive aspects of hard chewing but i really doubt signifcant and noticable effects will be seen in human adults
> 
> correct me if im wrong


Surely masseter hypertrophy is enough encouragement to start?


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## betamanlet (Nov 26, 2020)

jackieboy21 said:


> So how am i supposed to chew?


Forcefully while avoiding a backward force vector.



homo_faber said:


> are there also studies on humans or just on rats? if humans were rats hairloss would have been saved by now, so you cant really transfer everything 1 to 1
> 
> i dont deny positive aspects of hard chewing but i really doubt signifcant and noticable effects will be seen in human adults
> 
> correct me if im wrong


Sadly most human studies I've found have been simple correlation studies.


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## RichardwillImprove (Nov 26, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Forcefully while avoiding a backward force vector.
> 
> 
> Sadly most human studies I've found have been simple correlation studies.


so chew forwards kinda confused lol.


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## Sinjiyam (Nov 27, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Forcefully while avoiding a backward force vector.
> 
> 
> Sadly most human studies I've found have been simple correlation studies.


Does this mean you shouldn’t chew (Other than eating ofc) without a flat occlusal plane or that you should chew with anterior Teeth


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## betamanlet (Nov 27, 2020)

Sinjiyam said:


> Does this mean you shouldn’t chew (Other than eating ofc) without a flat occlusal plane or that you should chew with anterior Teeth


Not sure what you are asking, but chew with your molars.


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## Sinjiyam (Nov 27, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Not sure what you are asking, but chew with your molars.


I was wondering if your occlusal plane is slanted if that would have negative affects rather than an occlusal plane parallel to the ground


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## betamanlet (Nov 27, 2020)

Sinjiyam said:


> I was wondering if your occlusal plane is slanted if that would have negative affects rather than an occlusal plane parallel to the ground


Slanted laterarly or anterior-posteriorly? I don't really know what causes lateral slanting. I've been trying to fix mine for years to on avail. I've tried differernt head positions, tongue postures, chewing techniques, and so on. Clearly such lanting doesn't affect the mechanics of chewing too much.


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## Deleted member 685 (Nov 27, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> I have found that it is easy to unwittingly chew in an ineffective way when your jaws are not in an optimal position to begin with. Rather than half-assedly pressing the mandible up against the maxilla, you have to forcefully grind forward against the maxillary molars with your mandible, since such force vector is what will engage the masseters and pterygoids. Otherwise your masticatory effort will be led by the temporali, which will at worst result in a backward bite, the consequences of which are TMJ issues and mandibular recession.
> 
> 
> Are you talking about scleral exposure or excessive eye-bags? I'd imagine that anything that impacts the zygomatic arches will indirectly improve orbital support too. For what it's worth, elimination of eyebags was possibly the first benefit I noticed from mewing.


It literally doesn't matter at all, the stress on your bones isn't from the food that gets chewed on your molars, it's from the muscle use. That's not researched at all so you shouldn't make claims like that. Chewing is chewing, and chewing will always include both the masseter and temporalis muscle


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## betamanlet (Nov 27, 2020)

Gudru said:


> the stress on your bones isn't from the food that gets chewed on your molars, it's from the muscle use.


Yes, and what kind of force vectors you apply during mastication will determine the ratios of use between the masticatory muscles. People with overbite typically have temporalis-dominant mastication.



Gudru said:


> That's not researched at all so you shouldn't make claims like that.





http://www.sleepclinic.be/wp-content/uploads/The-relationship-between-skull-morphology-masticatory-muscle-forceand-cranial-skeletal-deformation-during-biting.pdf


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## Deleted member 685 (Nov 27, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Yes, and what kind of force vectors you apply during mastication will determine the ratios of use between the masticatory muscles. People with overbite typically have temporalis-dominant mastication.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I already know you're Christian and probably don't believe in facts like the earth being older than 6000 years old. But it makes virtually no sense to say something like this has a major influence on your facial development when chewing is an extremely understandable mechanism. Furthermore close to all studies so far have shown a shorter and more robust angular face in people with bigger masseters regardless. Unless you're chewing like a fucking retard this shit doesn't matter one bit. Cavemen etc didn't spend hours on wondering how to chew and yet all the skulls we're finding back don't have recessed faces etc. The fact you even talk about force vectors with a mechanism as easy as chewing tells me enough.

and even though I'm not gonna bother reading that entire study you sent, the morph pictures and the headlines don't speak of any overbites and if anything overall shorter faces with a lower mandibular angle which is good.


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## Sinjiyam (Nov 27, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Slanted laterarly or anterior-posteriorly? I don't really know what causes lateral slanting. I've been trying to fix mine for years to on avail. I've tried differernt head positions, tongue postures, chewing techniques, and so on. Clearly such lanting doesn't affect the mechanics of chewing too much.


Anterior-posteriorly. If the occlusal plane would make a triangle w the ground. In the sense that it is slanted down and not parallel. Would you want to stay away from chewing or does it not matter. I was a bit confused with what you said about the temporal is and fucking up the mandible and whether that would apply to occlusal plane angle


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## betamanlet (Nov 27, 2020)

Gudru said:


> chewing is an extremely understandable mechanism.


Ha, is this Gudru Dunning or Gudru Kruger?


Gudru said:


> Cavemen etc didn't spend hours on wondering how to chew and yet all the skulls we're finding back don't have recessed faces etc.


Whereas cavemen had properly positioned jaws to begin with, most users here don't. Their craniofacial structures are not conducive to proper masticatory function. Since dysfunctional skeletal form leads to dysfunctional patterns of movement, in such case you may naturally end up chewing, as you put it, 'like a fucking retard'. That certainly was the case for me: even though I chewed a lot of gum growing up, my lower third was none the better, as my chewing pattern was temporalis-dominant (though this did give me a nice upper third, which is the main area of developmental influence for the temporalii as demonstrated in the morphology study). When I learned to engage a more pterygoid/masseter dominant chewing pattern, it was so foreign to me that I could only chew for a couple of minutes before experiencing intense burning near the zygomatic arch. Many others will be the same way. The proper way of chewing will be so alien and unintuitive to them that they will never learn it without consciously trying.

I recommend this article series for further reading. It's long, but you will learn a lot: http://portlandtmjclinic.com/etiology


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## Deleted member 685 (Nov 27, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Ha, is this Gudru Dunning or Gudru Kruger?
> 
> Whereas cavemen had properly positioned jaws to begin with, most users here don't. Their craniofacial structures are not conducive to proper masticatory function. Since dysfunctional skeletal form leads to dysfunctional patterns of movement, in such case you may naturally end up chewing, as you put it, 'like a fucking retard'. That certainly was the case for me: even though I chewed a lot of gum growing up, my lower third was none the better, as my chewing pattern was temporalis-dominant (though this did give me a nice upper third, which is the main area of developmental influence for the temporalii as demonstrated in the morphology study). When I learned to engage a more pterygoid/masseter dominant chewing pattern, it was so foreign to me that I could only chew for a couple of minutes before experiencing intense burning near the zygomatic arch. Many others will be the same way. The proper way of chewing will be so alien and unintuitive to them that they will never learn it without consciously trying.
> 
> I recommend this article series for further reading. It's long, but you will learn a lot: http://portlandtmjclinic.com/etiology


Thanks I will and the way you explained it now makes more sense to me. Next thing, what would you say is the properly or ideally positioned jaw to begin with? I'm assuming a low mandibular plane etc but I'm wondering why a different dysfunctional skeletal form would ultimately lead to different patterns of movement, did you mean for example people with recession, overbites etc most likely adopting chewing patterns which are either too focused on either masseter or temporalis?


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## betamanlet (Nov 27, 2020)

Sinjiyam said:


> Anterior-posteriorly. If the occlusal plane would make a triangle w the ground. In the sense that it is slanted down and not parallel. Would you want to stay away from chewing or does it not matter. I was a bit confused with what you said about the temporal is and fucking up the mandible and whether that would apply to occlusal plane angle


To elaborate, I have a hypothesis that anterior-posterior slanting is caused by termporalis-dominant mastication. Roughly something like this (ignore the neurocranial movement):






If true, it could explain why the temporalis are often tense in TMD patients, since the temporalis is effectively causing the condyle to being pushed further into the socket.

Furthermore, and this is quite 'out there' speculation, I suspect that intra-oral vacuum could be the natural counter-balance to the compressive cranial forces generated by mastication. By forming proper lip suction, your cheeks will act as a downward maxillary facepuller (which would be quite natural, since the maxillary sutures themselves are facing downward). See for example the following comparison between the orthotropic twins, one of which was a mouthbreather and the other a lip sealer. See how the posterior maxilla of the lip sealer appears to be reside lower than that of the mouthbreather.






Skeletally the difference could be somewhat similar to these illustrations:









Could chewing without adequate counterforce from lip seal lead to loss of posterior maxillary height?



Gudru said:


> did you mean for example people with recession, overbites etc most likely adopting chewing patterns which are either too focused on either masseter or temporalis?


Yeah, that's it. Ideally positioned jaws as far as pre-industrial human anatomy is concerned are in edge-to-edge bite relationship, so that the arches wear evenly at the same rate.:






Note how the anterior arches curve upwards and see how the curvature relates the TMJ hinge. There is this forward/upward swing dynamic going on, almost like the molars are an axis point by which the anterior teeth are being pushed upward. This kind of dynamic is what I was alluding to with 'forward bite'.


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## hairyballscel (Dec 1, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> . When I learned to engage a more pterygoid/masseter dominant chewing pattern, it was so foreign to me that I could only chew for a couple of minutes before experiencing intense burning near the zygomatic arch. Many others will be the same way. The proper way of chewing will be so alien and unintuitive to them that they will never learn it without consciously trying.


how do you chew to engage the pterygoid/masseter?

is it the lower jaw moving forward thing?


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## betamanlet (Dec 1, 2020)

hairyballscel said:


> how do you chew to engage the pterygoid/masseter?
> 
> is it the lower jaw moving forward thing?


Yes, you get it.


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## randomvanish (Dec 1, 2020)

" Representative coronal micro-CT images of the mandibular bone of mice fed with the HD or ND. Scale bar, 1 mm. "
So the results happening in less than 1 mm and also it has a barrier to the end-point.

Masseter hypertrophy is reall too, but at -some point- not like giving you enough hypertrophy to change your face. so what's the point ? nothing is new.


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## EsotericPaternalism (Dec 1, 2020)

hairyballscel said:


> how do you chew to engage the pterygoid/masseter?
> 
> is it the lower jaw moving forward thing?


What are you referencing?


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## Mouthbreath (Dec 1, 2020)

randomvanish said:


> " Representative coronal micro-CT images of the mandibular bone of mice fed with the HD or ND. Scale bar, 1 mm. "
> So the results happening in less than 1 mm and also it has a barrier to the end-point.
> 
> Masseter hypertrophy is reall too, but at -some point- not like giving you enough hypertrophy to change your face. so what's the point ? nothing is new.


1mm in mice is not that small though, even in humans who are much larger, a few mm in the right areas can make a huge difference on how your face is perceived


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## Deleted member 3990 (Dec 1, 2020)




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## Deleted member 10686 (Dec 1, 2020)

so you move the lower jaw forward and up while chewing?


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## jackieboy21 (Dec 1, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> Yes, and what kind of force vectors you apply during mastication will determine the ratios of use between the masticatory muscles. People with overbite typically have temporalis-dominant mastication.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait bro ive got a slight overbite, how should i be chewing to angle my jaw a bit more and bring it the tiniest bit forward??


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## hairyballscel (Dec 1, 2020)

EsotericPaternalism said:


> What are you referencing?


betamanlet says it above


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## KrissKross (Dec 1, 2020)

Gudru said:


> I already know you're Christian and probably don't believe in facts like the earth being older than 6000 years old. But it makes virtually no sense to say something like this has a major influence on your facial development when chewing is an extremely understandable mechanism. Furthermore close to all studies so far have shown a shorter and more robust angular face in people with bigger masseters regardless. Unless you're chewing like a fucking retard this shit doesn't matter one bit. Cavemen etc didn't spend hours on wondering how to chew and yet all the skulls we're finding back don't have recessed faces etc. The fact you even talk about force vectors with a mechanism as easy as chewing tells me enough.
> 
> and even though I'm not gonna bother reading that entire study you sent, the morph pictures and the headlines don't speak of any overbites and if anything overall shorter faces with a lower mandibular angle which is good.


They do find skulls with overjets and overbites bro


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## Deleted member 3990 (Dec 1, 2020)

betamanlet said:


> View attachment 832391
> 
> 
> Note how the anterior arches curve upwards and see how the curvature relates the TMJ hinge. There is this forward/upward swing dynamic going on, almost like the molars are an axis point by which the anterior teeth are being pushed upward. This kind of dynamic is what I was alluding to with 'forward bite'.


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## TITUS (Dec 1, 2020)

So what do you have to do exactly? Just chew? You expect me to read the whole study?


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## Deleted member 8165 (Dec 1, 2020)

Can it reduce mewline????


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## EsotericPaternalism (Dec 1, 2020)

hairyballscel said:


> betamanlet says it above





betamanlet said:


> Yes, you get it.


I've been finding that merely focusing intensely on pressing up against my molars as hard as I can while chewing creates a burning sensation that I can feel running from the masseter to the zygomatic arch. Is there another component? Should I be pushing forward while I do it as well?


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## randomvanish (Dec 1, 2020)

Mouthbreath said:


> 1mm in mice is not that small though, even in humans who are much larger, a few mm in the right areas can make a huge difference on how your face is perceived


ahhh i'm sorry i thought this is the same as chinacel's shared article, this was on mice, sorry.


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## Deleted member 7098 (Dec 1, 2020)

TITUS said:


> So what do you have to do exactly? Just chew? You expect me to read the whole study?


chewing on hard stuff with your molars in a forward motion towards your front teeth? @betamanlet


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## Deleted member 2157 (Dec 1, 2020)

KrissKross said:


> They do find skulls with overjets and overbites bro


Only post agriculture. Some people don't understand that a longer midface is due to more growth in general too.


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## KrissKross (Dec 1, 2020)

KostyaRin said:


> Only post agriculture. Some people don't understand that a longer midface is due to more growth in general too.


No not since agriculture bro, since knife and fork. Look at medieval and Middle Ages skulls with Richard The Lionheart being a good example, they had edge to edge bites. They were well into farm maxxing by then


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## forwardgrowth (Dec 1, 2020)

best poster, thank you


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## curryslayerordeath (Jan 12, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> Whereas cavemen had properly positioned jaws to begin with, most users here don't. Their craniofacial structures are not conducive to proper masticatory function. Since dysfunctional skeletal form leads to dysfunctional patterns of movement, in such case you may naturally end up chewing, as you put it, 'like a fucking retard'. That certainly was the case for me: even though I chewed a lot of gum growing up, my lower third was none the better, as my chewing pattern was temporalis-dominant (though this did give me a nice upper third, which is the main area of developmental influence for the temporalii as demonstrated in the morphology study). When I learned to engage a more pterygoid/masseter dominant chewing pattern, it was so foreign to me that I could only chew for a couple of minutes before experiencing intense burning near the zygomatic arch. Many others will be the same way. The proper way of chewing will be so alien and unintuitive to them that they will never learn it without consciously trying.


why would the dominance of a certain muscle group matter? mastication requires all 3 of those major muscles, so no matter what your chewing pattern is, they will all be activated proportionally based on your skull relationships. if not, how do you even 'feel' how much a certain muscle is being activated? 



Sinjiyam said:


> Anterior-posteriorly. If the occlusal plane would make a triangle w the ground. In the sense that it is slanted down and not parallel. Would you want to stay away from chewing or does it not matter. I was a bit confused with what you said about the temporal is and fucking up the mandible and whether that would apply to occlusal plane angle


excessively clockwise slanted AP planes lead to pretty much a complete lack of development for the masticatory muscles (unlike normal or short faced ppl whose bite forces increases significantly w age/activity), most likely bc of inability to be properly recruited. if u have a steep occlusal plane, are u able to feel proper activation when u chew?


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## Sinjiyam (Jan 13, 2021)

curryslayerordeath said:


> why would the dominance of a certain muscle group matter? mastication requires all 3 of those major muscles, so no matter what your chewing pattern is, they will all be activated proportionally based on your skull relationships. if not, how do you even 'feel' how much a certain muscle is being activated?
> 
> 
> excessively clockwise slanted AP planes lead to pretty much a complete lack of development for the masticatory muscles (unlike normal or short faced ppl whose bite forces increases significantly w age/activity), most likely bc of inability to be properly recruited. if u have a steep occlusal plane, are u able to feel proper activation when u chew?


Idk how steep my occlusal plane is but I think so. I’m getting intrusion with ting anyways which should improve the occlusal plane I believe


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## Need2Ascend (Jan 13, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> People with overbite typically have temporalis-dominant mastication.


Can confirm, the wrong positioning of both my jaws is probably the reason my lower third did never really get wider, although I was chewing like retard for sometimes 4-6 hours a day for several months, the only change I noticed was in my upper third from the enlarged temporalis.

I think it's safe to say that "harmonious" results from chewing are most likely when both jaws are in the correct position to begin with


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## Deleted member 685 (Jan 13, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> Yes, and what kind of force vectors you apply during mastication will determine the ratios of use between the masticatory muscles. People with overbite typically have temporalis-dominant mastication.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you find that ppl with overbites typically have temporalis dominant mastication?


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## Agendum (Jan 13, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> I have found that it is easy to unwittingly chew in an ineffective way when your jaws are not in an optimal position to begin with. Rather than half-assedly pressing the mandible up against the maxilla, you have to forcefully grind forward against the maxillary molars with your mandible, since such force vector is what will engage the masseters and pterygoids. Otherwise your masticatory effort will be led by the temporali, which will at worst result in a backward bite, the consequences of which are TMJ issues and mandibular recession.
> 
> 
> Are you talking about scleral exposure or excessive eye-bags? I'd imagine that anything that impacts the zygomatic arches will indirectly improve orbital support too. For what it's worth, elimination of eyebags was possibly the first benefit I noticed from mewing.


Yeah but isn't poor mastication a structural issue first and as a consequence a functional one? I feel it's more unidirectional, no long lasting results until the craniofacial aspect is resolved. Chewing is self reinforcing in the direction of good or bad growth.

It's a rich gets richer and poor get poorer situation imo. The jaws are wired to chewed correctly instinctively but the poor skeletal structure is in the way.


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## Deleted member 685 (Jan 14, 2021)

curryslayerordeath said:


> why would the dominance of a certain muscle group matter? mastication requires all 3 of those major muscles, so no matter what your chewing pattern is, they will all be activated proportionally based on your skull relationships. if not, how do you even 'feel' how much a certain muscle is being activated?
> 
> 
> excessively clockwise slanted AP planes lead to pretty much a complete lack of development for the masticatory muscles (unlike normal or short faced ppl whose bite forces increases significantly w age/activity), most likely bc of inability to be properly recruited. if u have a steep occlusal plane, are u able to feel proper activation when u chew?


@betamanlet i would be curious to hear a reply from you


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## Deleted member 6380 (Jan 14, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> Forcefully while avoiding a backward force vector.


pleas eexplain this in human terms


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## betamanlet (Jan 14, 2021)

curryslayerordeath said:


> why would the dominance of a certain muscle group matter? mastication requires all 3 of those major muscles, so no matter what your chewing pattern is, they will all be activated proportionally based on your skull relationships. if not, how do you even 'feel' how much a certain muscle is being activated?


The way you grind your teeth against each other during mastication will determine the shape your occlusion, which in turn will determine which sutures are going to experience stress during mastication.


Agendum said:


> Yeah but isn't poor mastication a structural issue first and as a consequence a functional one? I feel it's more unidirectional, no long lasting results until the craniofacial aspect is resolved. Chewing is self reinforcing in the direction of good or bad growth.


I would say form and function mutually reinforce each other. Function can fail by adopting bad habits, after which form will fail too, which will encourage further deterioration of function, and so on. Likewise, children who don't face developmental issues will grow towards proper form, which will encourage proper function too, further cementing in good form. Now if your form is bad, you will find proper functioning difficult. But at the same time, without fighting for proper functioning, can you expect your form to ever improve? You are right that unless you are consciously trying to reprogram your jaw, chewing will likely only reinforce the direction of bad growth.



Gudru said:


> Where did you find that ppl with overbites typically have temporalis dominant mastication?


I don't remember, sorry. Might be that I'm pulling it out of my ass.


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## Deleted member 3990 (Jan 14, 2021)




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## WtfAmIDoingHere (Jan 14, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> The way you grind your teeth against each other during mastication will determine the shape your occlusion, which in turn will determine which sutures are going to experience stress during mastication.
> 
> I would say form and function mutually reinforce each other. Function can fail by adopting bad habits, after which form will fail too, which will encourage further deterioration of function, and so on. Likewise, children who don't face developmental issues will grow towards proper form, which will encourage proper function too, further cementing in good form. Now if your form is bad, you will find proper functioning difficult. But at the same time, without fighting for proper functioning, can you expect your form to ever improve? You are right that unless you are consciously trying to reprogram your jaw, chewing will likely only reinforce the direction of bad growth.
> 
> ...


bro please enlighten me on the right way to chew then. I believe you didnt make it clear


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## betamanlet (Jan 14, 2021)

WtfAmIDoingHere said:


> bro please enlighten me on the right way to chew then. I believe you didnt make it clear


I'm not sure if there is one universal answer to this. It would depend on your current facial form and masticatory habits. If you have overbite like I have, you could try grinding forward with the mandibular molars.


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## WtfAmIDoingHere (Jan 14, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> I'm not sure if there is one universal answer to this. It would depend on your current facial form and masticatory habits. If you have overbite like I have, you could try grinding forward with the mandibular molars.


I have good maxilla forward growth and ramus but I could use more mandible projection and width. My bite is also fine. How do you think I should be chewing?


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## betamanlet (Jan 14, 2021)

WtfAmIDoingHere said:


> I have good maxilla forward growth and ramus but I could use more mandible projection and width. My bite is also fine. How do you think I should be chewing?


The better your development is the less what I'm saying matters, since proper craniofacial form will encourage proper activation of the masticatory muscles. I don't know to what extent chewing can help you with achieving increased mandibular projection.


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## hairyballscel (Jan 14, 2021)

Dr Shekelberg said:


>


name of avi?


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## Selinity (Jun 6, 2021)

betamanlet said:


> Forcefully while avoiding a backward force vector.
> 
> 
> Sadly most human studies I've found have been simple correlation studies.


When I chose whilst focussing a bit more on the front of my jaw and moving it forwards slightly II’ve noticed my temporales muscle is barely being engaged. Am I chewing correcty?


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## mvp2v1 (Aug 25, 2022)

Selinity said:


> When I chose whilst focussing a bit more on the front of my jaw and moving it forwards slightly II’ve noticed my temporales muscle is barely being engaged. Am I chewing correcty?


so how did this go for you?


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