# Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery



## CosmicMaxxer (Nov 30, 2021)

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.

I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).

I was hoping the rotation would lead to more PCT but ultimately the canthal ligaments and whatnot resettle at their previous elevation. My canthos were not performed that great, but I did tons of research and got a follow-up drill-hole cantho with lower lid fat grafting by Eppley, and he gave me better results than any oculoplastic I tried previously (including 2 attempts by Taban).

My doc was Derek Steinbacher. I messaged a bunch of craniofacial/plastic combined specialty surgeons as found by google searching ("craniofacial plastic") and he was the one to respond.

Recovery was gnarly, not too painful, but I was functionally swollen blind the first few days. Months to regain eyebrow movement and general facial sensitivity. The right side of my upper lip extending upwards to encompass the buccal region is still experiencing numbness/parasthesia, but it's whatever. Overall I'm pretty happy with how it went. Attached a pic of my pre-surgical plan.

I'm sure this will attract a lot of interest, but I am quite busy so please don't dm me much, I'll answer various q's here. I'm not gonna show before/afters because I want to protect my identity.

Edit: May as well just use this thread to answer any questions about any surgeries at this point. I might make threads more specific to certain things (eye shape, LL, facial de-bloating, etc.) in the future.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Nov 30, 2021)

Was this fully cosmetic and out of pocket? Mind giving a ballpark range?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Nov 30, 2021)

LooksOverAll said:


> Was this fully cosmetic and out of pocket? Mind giving a ballpark range?


Fully out of pocket, about 55k.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Nov 30, 2021)

I already had temple scars above the ears from a previous Eppley surgery (temporal implants, getting replaced with a full helmet implant in 2 weeks, will be my final surgery). I don't really see the scar as it goes up my head. There was scabbing in the area for like 1.5 months which was annoying. At this point I have no annoyance with the coronal scar. Actually I believe Eppley will be reopening it to stuff the skull implant in me more easily.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Nov 30, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I already had temple scars above the ears from a previous Eppley surgery (temporal implants, getting replaced with a full helmet implant in 2 weeks, will be my final surgery). I don't really see the scar as it goes up my head. There was scabbing in the area for like 1.5 months which was annoying. At this point I have no annoyance with the coronal scar. Actually I believe Eppley will be reopening it to stuff the skull implant in me more easily.


What was your starting point and your (projected) ending point lookswise?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Nov 30, 2021)

LooksOverAll said:


> What was your starting point and your (projected) ending point lookswise?


I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).

I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


----------



## randomvanish (Nov 30, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD


why exactly you needed that?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Nov 30, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> why exactly you needed that?


had like a .435 ES ratio before, now about .47. Also believe in having a robust spacious face which looks silly without wide IPD.


----------



## Deleted member 9670 (Dec 1, 2021)

larp


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

MarkCorrigan said:


> larp


I can show evidence of every surgery mentioned and more.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I can show evidence of every surgery mentioned and more.


then do please


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> then do please


Which surgeries specifically? I have a high paying job which is how I was able to pay for all this shit, so I'm not just gonna spend a ton of effort because someone said "larp" in my thread.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Which surgeries specifically? I have a high paying job which is how I was able to pay for all this shit, so I'm not just gonna spend a ton of effort because someone said "larp" in my thread.


you can share b/a photos only showing specific parts of your face maybe.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

I'm attaching the CT Eppley did, which shows the effects of my box osteotomy, with the green implants being placed by Taban 6 years ago, and the blue the new implants Eppley placed/will place. I've also attached my Tibia LL pre-surgery form.

If I ever show pics it will only be by snapchat. And I'll only do that maybe in late January when I'll be finalized.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


Holy shit. 2 LLs and tons of blackpilled surgeries. I thought I was the shit for getting a hair transplant lmfao. The realest looksmaxxer to date. How old are you?


----------



## RealSurgerymax (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm attaching the CT Eppley did, which shows the effects of my box osteotomy, with the green implants being placed by Taban 6 years ago, and the blue the new implants Eppley placed/will place. I've also attached my Tibia LL pre-surgery form.
> 
> If I ever show pics it will only be by snapchat. And I'll only do that maybe in late January when I'll be finalized.


Nice you can clearly see a paramedian shallow-type orbital box osteotomy took place.

congrats .


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

LooksOverAll said:


> Holy shit. 2 LLs and tons of blackpilled surgeries. Have you crossed the $500k range yet?


I estimate I have, ya. Each LL about 100k, like 3-4 lower eyelid/hunter-eye attempts totalling 100k, rhino, jaw and chin implants (later replaced by wraparound), temporal and forehead implants (the latter of which will be removed and replaced with the big skull implant), deltoid-widening implants, HT, numerous lip reductions and facial fat removal attempts, experimentation with filler when I was less "established" (my parents helped me with my first 200k of surgeries I'd say).

I started looks-maxxing at 23.5, and will finish around my 32nd birthday within 2 months. I am now at least HTN if not chad-lite, at 6 inches taller than my original self. I probably have left out a bunch of other shit I did. It's been a crazy ride that started back in the days of PUAhate, which mostly confirmed all my suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill.


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

Do you have more sex now?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> Do you have more sex now?


I've been using sugar babies while I've ascended for the most part. I tried a few honest dating efforts but decided some years ago to just wait until I chad-ify. I will restart dating in 2 months, expecting much better results obv.


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I've been using sugar babies while I've ascended for the most part. I tried a few honest dating efforts but decided some years ago to just wait until I chad-ify. I will restart dating in 2 months, expecting much better results obv.



okay. What’s your ethnicity?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> okay. What’s your ethnicity?


I'm Jewish (half Sephardic half Ashkenazi). I looked light-skinned middle eastern-ish originally, and now I look Russian with a sprinkling of Asian (similar to tennis player Marat Safin).


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm Jewish (half Sephardic half Ashkenazi). I looked light-skinned middle eastern-ish originally, and now I look Russian with a sprinkling of Asian (similar to tennis player Marat Safin).


what are your objectives with further surgery having? 
with whom do you seek sex with? (Demographics)
Under which conditions do you seek to obtain sex?


----------



## Deleted member 5786 (Dec 1, 2021)

Hi man, i hacked your computer and got access to all your photos. Send me 1000€ on paypal or i will reveal it to everyone you know irl and tell them you are a fraud


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> what are your objectives with further surgery having?
> with whom do you seek sex with? (Demographics)
> Under which conditions do you seek to obtain sex?


I have one surgery left which is for the skull implant, deltoid implants, and lower facial slimming with Eppley. This will complete my heart-shaped, spacious skull but with a strong jaw and good definition.

Demographics wise, I have a specific type of girl that would be classified as something like a plus-sized model (only top-tier tall thick and pretty/cute girls). 

I mostly use online dating apps.


----------



## RealSurgerymax (Dec 1, 2021)

OldVirgin said:


> Hi man, i hacked your computer and got access to all your photos. Send me 1000€ on paypal or i will reveal it to everyone you know irl and tell them you are a fraud


Would not effect his life at all like everyone here thinks it will.


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I have one surgery left which is for the skull implant, deltoid implants, and lower facial slimming with Eppley. This will complete my heart-shaped, spacious skull but with a strong jaw and good definition.
> 
> Demographics wise, I have a specific type of girl that would be classified as something like a plus-sized model (only top-tier tall thick and pretty/cute girls).
> 
> I mostly use online dating apps.



okay.

thanks for the forthrightness.

yes, there is a short of socio-genetic arbitrage with chubby sort of Stacy. I was asking if she needed to be Jewish or gentile. Are you focused on quality of girl for breeding or avenging your genetic station with “slaying”?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> okay.
> 
> thanks for the forthrightness.
> 
> yes, there is a short of socio-genetic arbitrage with chubby sort of Stacy. I was asking if she needed to be Jewish or gentile. Are you focused on quality of girl for breeding or avenging your genetic station with “slaying”?


I prefer gentile I suppose. I'm focused on quality of girl for LTR and potentially marriage, I already feel I've slayed with sugar babies, don't care about validation from "slaying". I consider it a life-mission to get an LTR with a girl who falls under my ideals.


----------



## Reckless Turtle (Dec 1, 2021)

Did you ever consider that you could benefit from bimax?


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I already had temple scars above the ears from a previous Eppley surgery (temporal implants, getting replaced with a full helmet implant in 2 weeks, will be my final surgery). I don't really see the scar as it goes up my head. There was scabbing in the area for like 1.5 months which was annoying. At this point I have no annoyance with the coronal scar. Actually I believe Eppley will be reopening it to stuff the skull implant in me more easily.



so you unironically believe a skull implant is keeping you from having sex with women you desire?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Reckless Turtle said:


> Did you ever consider that you could benefit from bimax?


I was suggested it countless times by other PSL'ers, but ultimately my mouth seems well forwards enough, and I always knew I just had a weak mandible/cheekbone/big nose and a host of other crappy Jewish/incel flaws. But my mouth placement and philtrum were some of my very limited positive traits genetically and I saw no reason to bow to the maxilla ideology. 

Now that I've corrected everything, maybe my paranasal looks a bit depressed, but I actually like it because it makes for a cool contour as my cheekbones look like they swoop out more. I don't believe in bimax in the vast majority of cases.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> so you unironically believe a skull implant is keeping you from having sex with women you desire?


No, but it is a decently noticeable flaw now that my face is so large, and I'm still recovering from my jaw implant and last LL, so the timing works out best for me to wait anyways.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Dec 1, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Would not effect his life at all like everyone here thinks it will.


Sounds like a surgeon who wants more patients to consent to before-afters while simultaneously not posting his identity on here 🤔.


----------



## RealSurgerymax (Dec 1, 2021)

LooksOverAll said:


> Sounds like a surgeon who wants more patients to consent to before-afters while simultaneously not posting his identity on here 🤔.


Anonymous before and after picture which could be anybody in the world is much different.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Dec 1, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Anonymous before and after picture which could be anybody in the world is much different.


True, but I personally saw one of my high school's bullies in a rhinoplasty before and after gallery while I was doing research before I got it. If I saw him irl I would completely lose any and all respect for him since he had a real tough guy demeanor. Obviously doesn't apply to most people but everyone has a snowflake complex.


----------



## RealSurgerymax (Dec 1, 2021)

LooksOverAll said:


> True, but I personally saw one of my high school's bullies in a rhinoplasty before and after gallery while I was doing research before I got it. If I saw him irl I would completely lose any and all respect for him since he had a real tough guy demeanor.


Getting a rhinoplasty doesn’t make him less of a tough guy. You were researching it for yourself but would lose respect for him?
It just makes him human like you and everybody else.



LooksOverAll said:


> Obviously doesn't apply to most people but everyone has a snowflake complex.


They need to get over it. Everyone thinks they are the exception but actually they are just anybody.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Dec 1, 2021)

RealSurgerymax said:


> Getting a rhinoplasty doesn’t make him less of a tough guy. You were researching it for yourself but would lose respect for him?
> It just makes him human like you and everybody else.
> 
> 
> They need to get over it. Everyone thinks they are the exception but actually they are just anybody.


I think there's still a strong stigma for men who get surgery. Especially for tough rugged men who turn out to have insecurities like everyone else.

Regardless, I would gladly consent to b/a pictures if I got a discount. Usually that's not the case.


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

LooksOverAll said:


> I think there's still a strong stigma for men who get surgery. Especially for tough rugged men who turn out to have insecurities like everyone else.
> 
> Regardless, I would gladly consent to b/a pictures if I got a discount. Usually that's not the case.



I’d pay a premium to not have face posted ngl.


----------



## MeinChadf (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I have a high paying job which is how I was able to pay for all this shit


I need to moneymaxx, what is your job? No need for specifics/identifiable titles, just general area and seniority.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

MeinChadf said:


> I need to moneymaxx, what is your job? No need for specifics/identifiable titles, just general area and seniority.


Low-ranking software at a top company, currently low responsibility and high income due to stock appreciation. Also ability to surgery-max shamelessly during never-ending covid work from home.


----------



## .👽. (Dec 1, 2021)

yooo gtfih this nigga had 2 LL's and OBO wtf
@Acromegaly_Chad


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

.👽. said:


> yooo gtfih this nigga had 2 LL's and OBO wtf
> @Acromegaly_Chad


I'm the only guy who has actually implemented the majority of looks-maxxing memes/ideologies. You'd figure there would be at least one and I guess I'm him .


----------



## .👽. (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm the only guy who has actually implemented the majority of looks-maxxing memes/ideologies. You'd figure there would be at least one and I guess I'm him .


can u PM or Post your before afters tho?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

.👽. said:


> can u PM or Post your before afters tho?


I'll send them via some instant disappearing platform like snapchat (with pics disabled or something) in late January. That is when all my swelling will be gone, and I'll be doing a pro photo shoot then.


----------



## Truemaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I was hoping the rotation would lead to more PCT but ultimately the canthal ligaments and whatnot resettle at their previous elevation. My canthos were not performed that great, but I did tons of research and got a follow-up drill-hole cantho with lower lid fat grafting by Eppley, and he gave me better results than any oculoplastic I tried previously (including 2 attempts by Taban).


Would you say that the last "follow-up" reached your desired result and IF SO do you think it was only reached because of your previous eye surgerys or it would have been even better if it was your forst and only eyesurgery?

Like how where your eyes before the last surgery by eppley after all the other canthos(you seem to have had a LOT OF Canthos where most people would think it gets harder everytime because of scars etc.. to the point where no matter ehat it will look worse) and how are they now?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Truemaxxer said:


> Would you say that the last "follow-up" reached your desired result and IF SO do you think it was only reached because of your previous eye surgerys or it would have been even better if it was your forst and only eyesurgery?
> 
> Like how where your eyes before the last surgery by eppley after all the other canthos(you seem to have had a LOT OF Canthos where most people would think it gets harder everytime because of scars etc.. to the point where no matter ehat it will look worse) and how are they now?


I had two initial Taban surgeries spaced 4 years apart (I'm actually one of his b/a's from years ago). The first one was decent but kinda shortened my eyes and left residual outer lid droop, the 2nd did next to nothing. Then I had another lower lid/canthopexy with Raymond Douglas that went solid. Then the OBO which made them a bit worse, then a final Eppley attempt that's brought it to it's best state. Quite thin now, slight pct, but only averageish PSL (Eppley was able to extend them by like 1.5 mm per eye).

Scarring is slightly overstated. You can always release scar tissue in the lower lids, and stacking spacer grafts (i.e. one graft scars down, releasing its scar, placing another graft on top of it) is emerging as the most viable strategy according to the latest studies. When it comes to canthos, extra scar tissue may help to keep the canthus in place, though it does make webbing a bit more likely (less sharp/pointy canthuses).

My suggestion to those on a budget is Eppley's drill-hole cantho + lower eyelid fat grafting. It's only like 5k. If you want to be more thorough, get a lower lid retraction surgery with Douglas or Massry prior. Eppley may also be good for lower lids, but ideally you want someone who will do a free revision/graft-stacking should you need it (i.e. being prone to scar internally).


----------



## CristianT (Dec 1, 2021)

Post some before and afters. With only words is hard to have an idea if its worth or not. If you dont want all face just censored it. I'm only interested about the IPD tbh.


----------



## Truemaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I had two initial Taban surgeries spaced 4 years apart (I'm actually one of his b/a's from years ago). The first one was decent but kinda shortened my eyes and left residual outer lid droop, the 2nd did next to nothing. Then I had another lower lid/canthopexy with Raymond Douglas that went solid. Then the OBO which made them a bit worse, then a final Eppley attempt that's brought it to it's best state. Quite thin now, slight pct, but only averageish PSL (Eppley was able to extend them by like 1.5 mm per eye).
> 
> Scarring is slightly overstated. You can always release scar tissue in the lower lids, and stacking spacer grafts (i.e. one graft scars down, releasing its scar, placing another graft on top of it) is emerging as the most viable strategy according to the latest studies. When it comes to canthos, extra scar tissue may help to keep the canthus in place, though it does make webbing a bit more likely (less sharp/pointy canthuses).
> 
> My suggestion to those on a budget is Eppley's drill-hole cantho + lower eyelid fat grafting. It's only like 5k. If you want to be more thorough, get a lower lid retraction surgery with Douglas or Massry prior. Eppley may also be good for lower lids, but ideally you want someone who will do a free revision/graft-stacking should you need it (i.e. being prone to scar internally).


Damn can you elab on your pfl getting wider by 1.5mm thats huge tbh since most lower lid retractions/canthos shorten it usually(like yours with taban)

and whats about the fat grafting instead of choosing implants? Any reason for that since i heard fat isnt really permanent and will sag in some individuals giving them kinda under eye bags..


----------



## Blackgymmax (Dec 1, 2021)

Pm face pics?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

CristianT said:


> Post some before and afters. With only words is hard to have an idea if its worth or not. If you dont want all face just censored it. I'm only interested about the IPD tbh.


Ok here is just the eye region. Please don't share or popularize over the net. I will likely delete the link tomorrow. Caveats are described in the link (swollen upper lids with the right one in the pic being worse, co2 laser done recently), so this is hardly representative of a final result, but to spare you the wait:


----------



## uranio (Dec 1, 2021)

Mirin your incredible dedication to surgerymaxing. Thank you for sharing your experience


----------



## Gaia262 (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.
> 
> I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experience. 

To go through with these kind of surgeries shows commitment beyond imagination.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.
> 
> I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).
> 
> ...


Regalar cantho are designed to relapse. Why not get bridge of bone cantho to get a wider pfl?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

before and after mirror pics, as selfies make my canthal tilt look worse.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> Regalar cantho are designed to relapse. Why not get bridge of bone cantho to get a wider pfl?


Steinbacher did a "bridge-of-bone" cantho, which is actually just a canthopexy. This actually does not even lengthen pfl. The only way to lengthen pfl (short of a later orbital osteotomy) is a "drill-hole canthoplasty", as only that can maintain canthus contact with the eyeball.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I had two initial Taban surgeries spaced 4 years apart (I'm actually one of his b/a's from years ago). The first one was decent but kinda shortened my eyes and left residual outer lid droop, the 2nd did next to nothing. Then I had another lower lid/canthopexy with Raymond Douglas that went solid. Then the OBO which made them a bit worse, then a final Eppley attempt that's brought it to it's best state. Quite thin now, slight pct, but only averageish PSL (Eppley was able to extend them by like 1.5 mm per eye).
> 
> Scarring is slightly overstated. You can always release scar tissue in the lower lids, and stacking spacer grafts (i.e. one graft scars down, releasing its scar, placing another graft on top of it) is emerging as the most viable strategy according to the latest studies. When it comes to canthos, extra scar tissue may help to keep the canthus in place, though it does make webbing a bit more likely (less sharp/pointy canthuses).
> 
> My suggestion to those on a budget is Eppley's drill-hole cantho + lower eyelid fat grafting. It's only like 5k. If you want to be more thorough, get a lower lid retraction surgery with Douglas or Massry prior. Eppley may also be good for lower lids, but ideally you want someone who will do a free revision/graft-stacking should you need it (i.e. being prone to scar internally).i



i was able to widen my pfl by 1.5 mm on both eyes using Infraorbirtal rim implants and drill cantho


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Steinbacher did a "bridge-of-bone" cantho, which is actually just a canthopexy. This actually does not even lengthen pfl. The only way to lengthen pfl (short of a later orbital osteotomy) is a "drill-hole canthoplasty", as only that can maintain canthus contact with the eyeball.


Yes that’s what Pagnoni did for me. It mogs hard


----------



## Deleted member 5786 (Dec 1, 2021)

your eyes look like marlon brando's in the after


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ok here is just the eye region. Please don't share or popularize over the net. I will likely delete the link tomorrow. Caveats are described in the link (swollen upper lids with the right one in the pic being worse, co2 laser done recently), so this is hardly representative of a final result, but to spare you the wait:


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

Gaia262 said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> To go through with these kind of surgeries shows commitment beyond imagination.





CosmicMaxxer said:


> Steinbacher did a "bridge-of-bone" cantho, which is actually just a canthopexy. This actually does not even lengthen pfl. The only way to lengthen pfl (short of a later orbital osteotomy) is a "drill-hole canthoplasty", as only that can maintain canthus contact with the eyeball.


The idea is to pin the lateral canthus to the lateral orbital wall instead of Weills tubercle.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Before my c02 laser:


----------



## gamma (Dec 1, 2021)

You're white passing, why don't you locationmaxx instead of surgery?


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Before my c02 laser:



Whats your pfl now?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

gamma said:


> You're white passing, why don't you locationmaxx instead of surgery?


I'm already nearing the end of my surgery journey, and I didn't spend 600k so I'd have to move to Thailand lol.


----------



## Blackgymmax (Dec 1, 2021)

Mirin the dedication. Keep up the good work


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> Whats your pfl now?


Pretty mediocre, I think like 28.5-29 mm. I'm not TOO bummed about it, I think it's masculine to have wide-set, thin, but only average pfl eyes. Though obv. I'd take a few more mm if I could.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Pretty mediocre, I think like 28.5-29 mm. I'm not TOO bummed about it, I think it's masculine to have wide-set, thin, but only average pfl eyes. Though obv. I'd take a few more mm if I could.


I was in the same boat as you. I can tell you more about it when you are in the vanguard. My pfl after drill cantho and Infra orbitals rim implants mog. The importance of Infras are needed to achieve sn aesthetic eye shape


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> I was in the same boat as you. I can tell you more about it when you are in the vanguard. My pfl after drill cantho and Infra orbitals rim implants mog. The importance of Infras are needed to achieve sn aesthetic eye shape


I actually already have infraorbital implants from Taban, plus the OBO (unbeknownst to me initially) moved my orbitals forwards, so my ogee curve is actually over-pronounced now.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I actually already have infraorbital implants from Taban, plus the OBO (unbeknownst to me initially) moved my orbitals forwards, so my ogee curve is actually over-pronounced now.


Taban implants suck. You should have gotten PEEK implants. Why not get eppley face mask post obo


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

I do like the upper lid curvature op


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> Taban implants suck. You should have gotten PEEK implants. Why not get eppley face mask post obo


Ehh I'm pretty satisfied with the orbital and midfacial bones, my cheekbones are overly projected from 3/4. I don't think brow ridge is a high-value trait.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ehh I'm pretty satisfied with the orbital and midfacial bones, my cheekbones are overly projected from 3/4. I don't think brow ridge is a high-value trait.


The Infra orbitals rims are needed to shape the lower lid in achieving an aesthetic eye shape


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> The Infra orbitals rims are needed to shape the lower lid in achieving an aesthetic eye shape


I guess you're referring to the kind that actually dips into the socket (saddle-style)? I guess if I could redo it I'd wait for Eppley to invent those and have gotten them at that point lol.


----------



## Doggingercel (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> facial de-bloating


Can you expand a bit on this? Surprised to see it mentioned along with all types of surgeries.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I guess you're referring to the kind that actually dips into the socket (saddle-style)? I guess if I could redo it I'd wait for Eppley to invent those and have gotten them at that point lol.


Eppley already has those


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Doggingercel said:


> Can you expand a bit on this? Surprised to see it mentioned along with all types of surgeries.


I went to this clinic in Korea: https://www.engfreshps.com/facial-liposuction
Did a decent job because they will suck out fat from literally anywhere in the face. But next, I'm gonna do Eppley's trifecta (buccal fat removal, perioral lipo, and buccinator muscle trimming). I also started Morpheus8 which can compact down subdermal fat.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> Eppley already has those


Right I mean I would have waited until 2019 or whenever he "invented" them, instead of getting mediocre ones with Taban in 2015.


----------



## Titbot (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Right I mean I would have waited until 2019 or whenever he "invented" them, instead of getting mediocre ones with Taban in 2015.


You in the vanguard discord server. I can tell you a surgeon who does it for 11 K


----------



## Acromegaly_Chad (Dec 1, 2021)

Makes me wonder if a regular zygo reduction (15.4cm is 99th percentile and ogre tier to start with while 64.5mm IPD is a mere 2mm below average) bimax with quadrangular lefort 1, and zygo, under eye and jaw angle implants with focus on harmony and angularity wouldn't have produced a more natural, MUCH less risky and expensive result.

Because quite frankly to me it seems as if the OBO has impacted your eye area negatively apart from the IPD gain.

Still much respect for the dedication and courage to undergo all these procedures


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Acromegaly_Chad said:


> Makes me wonder if a regular zygo reduction (15.4cm is 99th percentile and ogre tier to start with while 64.5mm IPD is a mere 2mm below average) bimax with quadrangular lefort 1, and zygo, under eye and jaw angle implants with focus on harmony and angularity wouldn't have produced a more natural, MUCH less risky and expensive result.
> 
> Because quite frankly to me it seems as if the OBO has impacted your eye area negatively apart from the IPD gain.
> 
> Still much respect for the dedication and courage to undergo all these procedures


The eyes look better when you see the entire head/face. It reduces the appearance of the flaw of somewhat low pfl:ipd ratio, and shows how the wide-set eyes harmonize with a massive skull. I’ve shown pics in the discord server. I can pm you if you’d like.


----------



## Acromegaly_Chad (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> The eyes look better when you see the entire head/face. It reduces the appearance of the flaw of somewhat low pfl:ipd ratio, and shows how the wide-set eyes harmonize with a massive skull. I’ve shown pics in the discord server. I can pm you if you’d like.


I'm in that server, saw the pics now.
Yes it's an improvement overall, indeed.

And damn you have almost the same pheno as me. Confirms my 23andme ancestry results JFL


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Acromegaly_Chad said:


> I'm in that server, saw the pics now.
> Yes it's an improvement overall, indeed.
> 
> And damn you have almost the same pheno as me. Confirms my 23andme ancestry results JFL


Jewish or Southern European or Armenian?


----------



## Acromegaly_Chad (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Jewish or Southern European or Armenian?


half german
half eastern europe/ashkenazi. 

What an irony actually lol


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

Do I have to worry about lid retraction with transconjuctival incision for placing infraorbital implants?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> Do I have to worry about lid retraction with transconjuctival incision for placing infraorbital implants?


Yes if doing it in isolation. Are you getting anything done with it? And which doc?


----------



## ascentium (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Yes if doing it in isolation. Are you getting anything done with it? And which doc?



okay. Nothing planned for the lids, except the surgeon said the periosteal face lift and anchoring to the implant is sufficient to prevent retraction. In fact he suggest my pfh will decrease as a result of the lift and the saddle design.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

ascentium said:


> okay. Nothing planned for the lids, except the surgeon said the periosteal face lift and anchoring to the implant is sufficient to prevent retraction. In fact he suggest my pfh will decrease as a result of the lift and the saddle design.


Ya that should work. You can always throw in a canthopexy or something so the eyes heal in an elevated position at least.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Titbot said:


> You in the vanguard discord server. I can tell you a surgeon who does it for 11 K


I'll prob ask Eppley whether a saddle-shaped replacement infra-orbital could help me get even straighter lower lids. I'm guessing that it's more risk than reward given the amount of scar tissue I have down there and the risk of things scarring down worse than before.


----------



## nastynas (Dec 1, 2021)

mirin your dedication man, congratulations

would you be okay to rate me and give some suggestions surgery wise? would be a great opportunity for me as you have years of cumulative both theory and practical knowledge


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

nastynas said:


> mirin your dedication man, congratulations
> 
> would you be okay to rate me and give some suggestions surgery wise? would be a great opportunity for me as you have years of cumulative both theory and practical knowledge


sure shoot me a pm


----------



## Tobias Fünke (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.



How long did you have to wait between the 2 LL surgeries? Were there any complications and how much do you feel your athletic ability has diminished since getting them? 

Also how supportive have friends/family been on your surgical journey?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Tobias Fünke said:


> How long did you have to wait between the 2 LL surgeries? Were there any complications and how much do you feel your athletic ability has diminished since getting them?
> 
> Also how supportive have friends/family been on your surgical journey?


6 years between. I mostly recovered from the first one, maybe 85% of athleticism. Still recovering from tibias, walking all hobbled for now but it steadily improves every week.

My family thinks I'm a nut case and have tried to get me to stop throughout the journey, though they will admit I look better at times. Many of my friends are from psl so ofc they are supportive lol.


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I went to this clinic in Korea: https://www.engfreshps.com/facial-liposuction
> Did a decent job because they will suck out fat from literally anywhere in the face. But next, I'm gonna do Eppley's trifecta (buccal fat removal, perioral lipo, and buccinator muscle trimming). I also started Morpheus8 which can compact down subdermal fat.


Absolute based my dude. I recently done Buccal fat Removal + FaceTite + Morpheus8 for facial fat. Will defos look into this


----------



## Tobias Fünke (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> 6 years between. I mostly recovered from the first one, maybe 85% of athleticism. Still recovering from tibias, walking all hobbled for now but it steadily improves every week.
> 
> My family thinks I'm a nut case and have tried to get me to stop throughout the journey, though they will admit I look better at times. Many of my friends are from psl so ofc they are supportive lol.


Thanks for the response. Best of luck with your final push toward the looksmaxing summit!


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 1, 2021)

Why are you going to Eppeley after going to Korea for lipo? Were you not satisfied with the result?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

deepweb1298 said:


> Why are you going to Eppeley after going to Korea for lipo? Were you not satisfied with the result?


I think they lied that their method removes buccal fat, because I still have heaviness in the buccal region. I think they did a decent job, but these days I'd recommend the Eppley trifecta + accutite/facetite, and Morpheus8. What they did in Korea was basically the equivalent of accutite. Though I was not aware of that at the time I went.


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I think they lied that their method removes buccal fat, because I still have heaviness in the buccal region. I think they did a decent job, but these days I'd recommend the Eppley trifecta + accutite/facetite, and Morpheus8. What they did in Korea was basically the equivalent of accutite. Though I was not aware of that at the time I went.


I can tell you work for FAANG. I'm a SWE as well but dont work for them. Really mirin' the dedication and you're very lucky that us SWE's can just do remote work and do surgeries at the same time.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

deepweb1298 said:


> I can tell you work for FAANG. I'm a SWE as well but dont work for them. Really mirin' the dedication and you're very lucky that us SWE's can just do remote work and do surgeries at the same time.


Ya covid is one hell of a blessing tbh. To get into faang I quit my job and did 6 months of leetcode a few years ago lol. Had to leetcode to ascend my L.


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ya covid is one hell of a blessing tbh. To get into faang I quit my job and did 6 months of leetcode a few years ago lol. Had to leetcode to ascend my L.


im currently leetcoding as well hard its a fucking pain in the ass but yeah gotta do it for the big bucks


----------



## Lihito (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'll send them via some instant disappearing platform like snapchat (with pics disabled or something) in late January. That is when all my swelling will be gone, and I'll be doing a pro photo shoot then.


Why you do afraid of doxxing bratha


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Lihito said:


> Why you do afraid of doxxing bratha


I showed in discord server, but ya I don't want my face plastered over the net in relation to the most extreme surgical improvement journey out there.


----------



## Lihito (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I showed in discord server, but ya I don't want my face plastered over the net in relation to the most extreme surgical improvement journey out there.


I would be Proud if i was biggest hardmaxxer


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Lihito said:


> I would be Proud if i was biggest hardmaxxer


Proud amongst PSL'ers, not amongst general blue-pilled society.


----------



## Pumanator (Dec 1, 2021)

what surgery got the most ROI?
What surgery what you advice mostly?
What surgery is highly overrated?
How did your friends/ collegues respond to the transformation?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Pumanator said:


> what surgery got the most ROI?
> What surgery what you advice mostly?
> What surgery is highly overrated?
> How did your friends/ collegues respond to the transformation?


LL if you're manlet, then lower eyelid lifting if you have droopy/bug eyes.
Can you rephrase Q2.
Taban is the most overrated, other than that, all surgeries have their part in improving harmony. If you're doing skull reshaping, don't just get temporal implants, get a full helmet.
They mostly think I'm crazy but are impressed with the effort and improvement.


----------



## Lihito (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Proud amongst PSL'ers, not amongst general blue-pilled society.


I now understand The scope of tranny Soy dictatorship in The West

Its pathetic you guys cant expressu yourself


----------



## Pumanator (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> LL if you're manlet, then lower eyelid lifting if you have droopy/bug eyes.
> Can you rephrase Q2.
> Taban is the most overrated, other than that, all surgeries have their part in improving harmony. If you're doing skull reshaping, don't just get temporal implants, get a full helmet.
> They mostly think I'm crazy but are impressed with the effort and improvement.


i ment what surgery would you advice on most people. For example bimax cause a lot of people are recessed.
Didnt expect q1 answer. thought you would mention jaw. Isnt orbital decrompression better for droopy eyes/bug eyes.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Pumanator said:


> i ment what surgery would you advice on most people. For example bimax cause a lot of people are recessed.
> Didnt expect q1 answer. thought you would mention jaw. Isnt orbital decrompression better for droopy eyes/bug eyes.


decompression helps with bulging but doesn't always lift the lower lid like expected. Wraparound jaw implant for weak jaws is op as well, sure. My jaw was weak in every direction so it made a big difference. But for that you want to have good mouth/philtrum with just a weak mandible.


----------



## eduardkoopman (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate,


#metoo . But in thos times, I only was active in the "dating coches bashing" part of the forum. I didn't visit the looks part of that forum.


----------



## eduardkoopman (Dec 1, 2021)

...


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

eduardkoopman said:


> #metoo . But in thos times, I only was active in the "dating coches bashing" part of the forum. I didn't visit the looks part of that forum.


the good ol' days. The level of abstraction and innovation in the looks forum was magical.


----------



## MeinChadf (Dec 1, 2021)

@CosmicMaxxer how did you come to figure out the specific areas of your eye that were lacking in relation to overall facial harmony? Feel like most other features are so obvious and glaring (especially jaw and nose) but eyes are way more subtle. Did you just morph your eye area a load of times or something? Or were ratios more useful starting point?


----------



## eduardkoopman (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> the good ol' days. The level of abstraction and innovation in the looks forum was magical.


LOL. Yeah, I totally missed that aspect back than there. I found it mostly odd back than, that dudes was talking about looks so much.
I was not aware that looks mattered so much back than. I did know back than, that PUA and dating coaches advice was cope. I just beleived back than, that dating and a woman liking you was just quit random and just a numbers game for all exept the select amount of famous peoples.

Tyler Durden his birtday party pics. was one of my most favourite post I recall. Which was called "tyler durden cockfest". Defenately not the playboy he claimed to be.


----------



## Danish_Retard (Dec 1, 2021)

Extremely impressive. I am deeply mirin. 

Take this as a general question. I am 18. I can sometimes get a minimum wage job paying ~20€/hr and if I had to get a proper education it would take 8+ years. Would you advise me to go into debt to get surgeries, wait it out with minimum wage or wait till I'm old but have a good job?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

MeinChadf said:


> @CosmicMaxxer how did you come to figure out the specific areas of your eye that were lacking in relation to overall facial harmony? Feel like most other features are so obvious and glaring (especially jaw and nose) but eyes are way more subtle. Did you just morph your eye area a load of times or something? Or were ratios more useful starting point?


My original eyes were bulgy with a lot of scleral show so it was quite obvious what its issues were. In general, you want long thin eyes with slight pct. Any deviation from that lets you know what to do imo.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Danish_Retard said:


> Extremely impressive. I am deeply mirin.
> 
> Take this as a general question. I am 18. I can sometimes get a minimum wage job paying ~20€/hr and if I had to get a proper education it would take 8+ years. Would you advise me to go into debt to get surgeries, wait it out with minimum wage or wait till I'm old but have a good job?


I'd say wait it out because otherwise you'll get the budget version of procedures and just have to redo them in a thorough way in the future which leads to more wasted $. For ex. when I was younger I got jaw angle and chin implants which moved around and didn't provide enough augmentation. Only recently did I replace with a wraparound that is 10x as effective.


----------



## LebenistneHure (Dec 1, 2021)

Hey man, I condone your efforts, and good job on maxxing out. I've got a number of surgeries I have in mind, I'd like to dm a pic if you could suggest some to see if I have the right idea. Also suppose you start balding, that obo scar would start to become a problem, wouldnt it?


----------



## LachowskiWannabe (Dec 1, 2021)

how do you afford all of this


----------



## Reckless Turtle (Dec 1, 2021)

You work remotely as a SWE? So it seems like your surgeries won't affect your career much (from a lookism perspective).

It looks like you've had surgical improvements on most of your important body parts, but what's your penis size?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Reckless Turtle said:


> You work remotely as a SWE? So it seems like your surgeries won't affect your career much (from a lookism perspective).
> 
> It looks like you've had surgical improvements on most of your important body parts, but what's your penis size?


I'm only working remotely for now due to COVID, though eventually I'll work remotely again.
Penis is 6.25x5.75 . I need to wear this restorex extender I got. PE is such a pain lol.


----------



## Reckless Turtle (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm only working remotely for now due to COVID, though eventually I'll work remotely again.
> Penis is 6.25x5.75 . I need to wear this restorex extender I got. PE is such a pain lol.


Do you think you would have gone through all of this if your penis was less than 5 inches in length (including extension)?


----------



## mogstar (Dec 1, 2021)

Nice larp


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Reckless Turtle said:


> Do you think you would have gone through all of this if your penis was less than 5 inches in length (including extension)?


lol as opposed to what, just accepted being incel? I would have been more diligent with my PE I guess with everything else the same. Maybe looked into lig-releasing/tunica surgery.


----------



## Reckless Turtle (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> lol as opposed to what, just accepted being incel? I would have been more diligent with my PE I guess with everything else the same. Maybe looked into lig-releasing/tunica surgery.


I think that having a micropenis results in less incentive to looksmax.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 1, 2021)

Reckless Turtle said:


> I think that having a micropenis results in less incentive to looksmax.


You've got micropenis I'm guessing?


----------



## Reckless Turtle (Dec 1, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> You've got micropenis I'm guessing?


Nope.


----------



## ErbCel (Dec 1, 2021)

@BasedUgandacel


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

I'm still burned from C02 laser but this gives a better idea of the harmony the wide-set eyes create despite maybe less than ideal pfl.


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 2, 2021)

Can you talk about the OBO planning? How did you and the surgeon decide on the movements?
What were the discussions like for an aesthetic improvement

EDIT:

Also can I ask If a person with normal PFL eyes, no NCT, decent hooding just got OBO. Will the result still require further surgery like canthoplexy / plasty?


----------



## Deleted member 7098 (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.
> 
> I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).
> 
> ...


@Win200 you've been over-taken as the guy that actually went to all our favorite surgeons.
this dude spent $600k and probably 3 years in bed recovering, what a guy, got every surgery under the sun.





I'm admiring your dedication OP, I hope the results turn out as you good as you hope for.
Question for you OP: did you quit Finance job to do the coding to get into FAANG? debating if i should do the same as the hours in finance are just crippling and even missing 2 weeks of work due to recovery isn't a positive look


----------



## lutte (Dec 2, 2021)

Actual mental illness


----------



## baruch (Dec 2, 2021)

Is it an outpatient procedure? Or did you have to spend a night in the hospital?


----------



## Deleted member 9072 (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ok here is just the eye region. Please don't share or popularize over the net. I will likely delete the link tomorrow. Caveats are described in the link (swollen upper lids with the right one in the pic being worse, co2 laser done recently), so this is hardly representative of a final result, but to spare you the wait:



WTF 
you look like more shit
your ipd looked fine now you look like a mongolian cave baby
how does anyone support this
fucken retards


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

brbbrah said:


> WTF
> you look like more shit
> your ipd looked fine now you look like a mongolian cave baby
> how does anyone support this
> fucken retards


bruh I'll message you my personal pics if you don't share. It looks much different in the context of my overall head. There's a harmony aspect to it ya know.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

baruch said:


> Is it an outpatient procedure? Or did you have to spend a night in the hospital?


2-3 nights in the hospital. Functionally blinded due to extreme swelling lying on an inclined bed in a dark room. Very dystopian though not too painful.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

deepweb1298 said:


> Can you talk about the OBO planning? How did you and the surgeon decide on the movements?
> What were the discussions like for an aesthetic improvement
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


We went into depth with the amount of lateral movement, vertical movement (for asymmetry and higher cheekbones), degrees of rotation of the "boxes"... only thing I was somewhat surprised by is he moved the orbitals forwards which you can see by the way they're plated in the CT. I figure the doc threw that in as a free "boost" or he just didn't realize how hard it would be to plate the bones without moving the boxes slightly forward.

Na, I think you'd just emphasize to him to make sure the bridge of bone canthopexy he does (and must do) during the procedure is high enough.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

MoeZart said:


> @Win200 you've been over-taken as the guy that actually went to all our favorite surgeons.
> this dude spent $600k and probably 3 years in bed recovering, what a guy, got every surgery under the sun.
> View attachment 1424110
> 
> ...


I actually left another engineering field to do software. Ya I could never do finance, without free time life feels like being a hamster in a wheel. If you're salary is still less than 300k it's worth trying to get into FANG imo since you'll surpass that soon enough even if the initial offer is below, with a much easier lifestyle (unless you get Amazon, which is like a regular 9-5, better than Finance but shit compared to the rest of fang).


----------



## Deleted member 9072 (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> bruh I'll message you my personal pics if you don't share. It looks much different in the context of my overall head. There's a harmony aspect to it ya know.


sure bro i dont doxx
but show tbh i wanna see if yuor harmony looked better
cause it doesn't that much
maby it's distortio ion know


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> We went into depth with the amount of lateral movement, vertical movement (for asymmetry and higher cheekbones), degrees of rotation of the "boxes"... only thing I was somewhat surprised by is he moved the orbitals forwards which you can see by the way they're plated in the CT. I figure the doc threw that in as a free "boost" or he just didn't realize how hard it would be to plate the bones without moving the boxes slightly forward.
> 
> Na, I think you'd just emphasize to him to make sure the bridge of bone canthopexy he does (and must do) during the procedure is high enough.


Okay so if you were to do everything again just to summarise:

OBO with Dr Derek
BOB Canthopexy with Dr Eppely

or does Dr Derek do BOB cantho as well


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

deepweb1298 said:


> Okay so if you were to do everything again just to summarise:
> 
> OBO with Dr Derek
> BOB Canthopexy with Dr Eppely
> ...


Derek does BOB which is not as powerful as Eppley's "drill-hole canthoplasty". I guess I'd hope Derek's BOB went a little better, but even then I'd canthal max with Eppley I suppose.


----------



## accsmt (Dec 2, 2021)

What are your opinions on implant materials? Silicon vs PEEK etc


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

accsmt said:


> What are your opinions on implant materials? Silicon vs PEEK etc


PEEK is more rigid but I'm not sure that translates to more definition. I would always choose Silicone given it's cheaper plus PEEK isn't readily offered in the US.


----------



## accsmt (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> PEEK is more rigid but I'm not sure that translates to more definition. I would always choose Silicone given it's cheaper plus PEEK isn't readily offered in the US.


Thanks for the reply. I have a small mouth so I plan on getting lower jaw surgery for my recessed mandible/chin and overbite/jet. I am wary of getting any sort of jaw implants aside from correcting minor asymmetry because of the small mouth, are there any measuring techniques or ratios I should be aware of? Right now im mostly just considering cheek implants.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

accsmt said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have a small mouth so I plan on getting lower jaw surgery for my recessed mandible/chin and overbite/jet. I am wary of getting any sort of jaw implants aside from correcting minor asymmetry because of the small mouth, are there any measuring techniques or ratios I should be aware of? Right now im mostly just considering cheek implants.


Ya, with a small mouth you don't wan't overly large bigonial width. I actually had my mouth slightly widened unintentionally as I had my mouth corners elevated when I was in Korea (threw in lip surgery while I was there as they have some renown for that too).

In regards to measuring techniques, I always consulted databases such as this one: https://www.facebase.org/facial_norms/summary/#lowfaceheight

When deciding how much to lengthen my chin/lower jaw with the wraparound for example, I aimed for a 75 mm lower facial height. I started at around 71-72, with a nose length of 56 mm (on the longer side) and a 15 mm philtrum length. So my chin lengthened by 3-4 mm. Dropdown at jaw angles of 4 mm.

For jaw width, at 154 mm bizygo (this means barely grazing widest part along arch btw, its not as insane a number as it sounds if you measure this way), I aimed for a .85 or so bigonial to bizygo ratio. My bigonial width was 122 mm initially and my jaw looked small overall compared to zygos and eye spacing, so I expanded by 5 mm on each side to get to 132 mm. Since you have a small mouth, I'd aim for like .82-.83 ratio I'd guess. Any less than that and your bigonial won't be impressive.

Btw, I've attached the most accurate facial database report I've ever stumbled upon. I used this when deciding many of my desired post-surgical measurements. The way they measure in this study, is from skin to skin (barely touching), which is great, because it leaves no doubt about whether you pressed with too much pressure or not enough etc. You will see the measurements in this study are thus higher than you will see in others or in the facebase site I linked. Obviously just compare your measurements to the means, perhaps calculate your percentiles by using the standard deviations given, and try no to stray too far from the important ratios (i.e. bizygo mean/bigonial mean), unless you have a very good reason and have simulated what that ratio will look like in a morph.


----------



## accsmt (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ya, with a small mouth you don't wan't overly large bigonial width. I actually had my mouth slightly widened unintentionally as I had my mouth corners elevated when I was in Korea (threw in lip surgery while I was there as they have some renown for that too).
> 
> In regards to measuring techniques, I always consulted databases such as this one: https://www.facebase.org/facial_norms/summary/#lowfaceheight
> 
> ...


Thanks alot, this is very informative. Are these measurements using ceph xrays or soft tissue?


----------



## khvirgin (Dec 2, 2021)

Respect man, double LL is my dream surgery, unfortunately I dont have 200k
you went to Paley?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

accsmt said:


> Thanks alot, this is very informative. Are these measurements using ceph xrays or soft tissue?


Soft tissue using calipers. You can also attempt to use photo measurements. I use this site for that since you can orientate the measuring lines as needed:






Measure in photo online ‐ eleif.net


Take approximate measurements from an image using an object with known size as scale. Quick, simple, online and without upload.



eleif.net


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

khvirgin said:


> Respect man, double LL is my dream surgery, unfortunately I dont have 200k
> you went to Paley?


Paley for the first and Mahboubian for the second. I prefer the latter for being a little cheaper, younger and equally or more proficient, and being less restrictive on lengthening limits. Not that it matters, you can use the lengthening remote as long as you want without the doc knowing. But If you’re doing Paley’s PT they’ll find out I guess. It would be an awkward situation at the least lol.


----------



## accsmt (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Soft tissue using calipers. You can also attempt to use photo measurements. I use this site for that since you can orientate the measuring lines as needed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was your 154mm bizygo pre or post cheek augmentation? Using everything you have told me here I may just settle for bsso/genio and rhino, as everything else seems to be decent ratio and mean wise and I am not rich. Again, thank you so much for your knowledge


----------



## khvirgin (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Paley for the first and Mahboubian for the second. I prefer the latter for being a little cheaper, younger and equally or more proficient, and being less restrictive on lengthening limits. Not that it matters, you can use the lengthening remote as long as you want without the doc knowing. But If you’re doing Paley’s PT they’ll find out I guess. It would be an awkward situation at the least lol.


Less restrictive? I thought 6 inches were well within his "range"


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

accsmt said:


> Was your 154mm bizygo pre or post cheek augmentation? Using everything you have told me here I may just settle for bsso/genio and rhino, as everything else seems to be decent ratio and mean wise and I am not rich. Again, thank you so much for your knowledge


I never explicitly expanded my zygo arch width. I believe it grew overtime in combination with a tendency to gain weight there. My face was actually narrow looking around age 18. I did get temporal implants at 24 (under the temporalis muscle) but that should not affect zygo width as it is slightly above.



khvirgin said:


> Less restrictive? I thought 6 inches were well within his "range"


Paley stopped me at like 7.2 cm on my femurs with the excuse that my bone would refracture if I lengthened more due to the original fracture being too jagged or something. AKA his incompetency with the original fracture cost me like 8 mm (8 cm limit rods). For tibias they stop most people at 5-6 cm. Some even at 4-5 if they are too "tight". Mahboubian hesitated to let me go to 6.5 when I was at 5 because of how tight I was, and when we got to 6.5 I asked him to let me get to 7, then I went to 7.5 at home without him knowing lol. He didn't mind so much because even though I was tight, I get PT everyday, and my bone regrowth is very strong, so no chance of nonunion. I also have the money for muscle release surgeries should I need them.

Attached 2 pics from the 2 hospital days after Tibia LL surgery.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

These are my eyes today. As you can see, just a little more reduction of upper eyelid swelling on my right side leads to a big improvement. Once all the swelling is gone, as well as my skin is recovered from CO2, I'd expect even the close-up of the eyes to look quite aesthetic, nevermind its contribution to overall harmony on my tallish and broad head.


----------



## accsmt (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> These are my eyes today. As you can see, just a little more reduction of upper eyelid swelling on my right side leads to a big improvement. Once all the swelling is gone, as well as my skin is recovered from CO2, I'd expect even the close-up of the eyes to look quite aesthetic, nevermind its contribution to overall harmony on my tallish and broad head.


Could you DM me the before/after? I'm very curious to see the overall impact of all the eye area surgeries


----------



## LooksmaxxHopeful (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.
> 
> I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).
> 
> ...


I don't have any surgical questions as of yet because for the next few years I'm mainly focusing on taking the aesthetics/zyzz/gym-maxxing before I commit to any facial surgery, but I'd just like to say that you should stay on the website because it's always good to have experienced/educated people here to help.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 2, 2021)

what the hell... it's like my all most unbelievable dreams come true... i want LL tbh but feel like not worth it. how is your athletic ability after all? how is your walking and running ?


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 2, 2021)

also how many months you spend until you fully healed after LL on tibia? (also on femur)


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (Dec 2, 2021)

what's the most painful surgery you've had


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 2, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> also how many months you spend until you fully healed after LL on tibia? (also on femur)


i really wonder this, please make a detailed comment on this.


----------



## UglyGod360 (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> View attachment 1423906
> 
> 
> I'm still burned from C02 laser but this gives a better idea of the harmony the wide-set eyes create despite maybe less than ideal pfl.


Oscar de la Hoya, is that u


----------



## chance (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


what. the. fuck?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

UglyGod360 said:


> Oscar de la Hoya, is that u


I'd say my eyes are more exotic and darkly mysterious than his. Look at my more recent picture on this page.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> also how many months you spend until you fully healed after LL on tibia? (also on femur)


On femur, I'd say fully healed (no limp at all) was like 2 years. For tibia, I'm only 7.5 months post now, barely walking. For femurs I was walking 6 months post and at 9-10 I felt normal though still limped a bit. I expect to walk halfway normally in like 4 months from now tbh. So nearly a full year after my tibia surgery.


----------



## chance (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm Jewish (half Sephardic half Ashkenazi). I looked light-skinned middle eastern-ish originally, and now I look Russian with a sprinkling of Asian (similar to tennis player Marat Safin).


had to be an evil mf. waiting for the LL thread. try not subverting the ppl on this forum too much with ur jewish evilness.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> what's the most painful surgery you've had


Definitely LL, nothing comes close. All the pains the first month of femur surgery were exhausting. Tibia not so much. Thought the first 2 days of Tibia was "redefining pain" since they took me off the morphine drip on only the 2nd day. At Paley's for femur, I had 6 days of drip.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

chance said:


> had to be an evil mf. waiting for the LL thread. try not subverting the ppl on this forum too much with ur jewish evilness.


Is this some form of satire? I'm confused as to what you're trying to say


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Definitely LL, nothing comes close. All the pains the first month of femur surgery were exhausting. Tibia not so much. Thought the first 2 days of Tibia was "redefining pain" since they took me off the morphine drip on only the 2nd day. At Paley's for femur, I had 6 days of drip.


interesting. how would you best describe the pain from LL?

btw, did you get lip reduction under local or general anesthesia? I actually made that post to see if you'd say lip reduction because that would've cracked me up. I had it done and the local anesthesia was brootal jfl.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> interesting. how would you best describe the pain from LL?
> 
> btw, did you get lip reduction under local or general anesthesia? I actually made that post to see if you'd say lip reduction because that would've cracked me up. I had it done and the local anesthesia was brootal jfl.


The pain of LL is like your legs have been run over by a truck for the first few months, and then the most brutal leg day workout of your life for the remainder of the recovery, in varying shades.

I had 3 lower lip reductions and one upper lip reduction, all under general.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> The pain of LL is like your legs have been run over by a truck for the first few months, and then the most brutal leg day workout of your life for the remainder of the recovery, in varying shades.
> 
> I had 3 lower lip reductions and one upper lip reduction, all under general.


so at least how many months needed to fake like you haven't got any surgery with tibia? i'm talking about maybe a little bit limp but normal walking..

also do you think LL is too problematic to have it? because this forum thinks like "LL means you'll be crippled in future for sure".


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> so at least how many months needed to fake like you haven't got any surgery with tibia? i'm talking about maybe a little bit limp but normal walking..
> 
> also do you think LL is too problematic to have it? because this forum thinks like "LL means you'll be crippled in future for sure".


maybe like 1-1.25 years.

I wouldn't have gotten it if I thought the result would be anything close to crippled. The surgeries just take some time to recover from. And then you should stretch lifelong in order to avoid arthritis later on. Since once you're recovered you can walk fine and play sports at a diminished athleticism, but the main thing is your soft tissues will still be tight and long term that's bad.


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> The pain of LL is like your legs have been run over by a truck for the first few months, and then the most brutal leg day workout of your life for the remainder of the recovery, in varying shades.
> 
> I had 3 lower lip reductions and one upper lip reduction, all under general.


4x general anesthesia for lip reduction jfllll

for local they inject that stuff here





lowkey made me cry


I honestly kinda thought the whole LL recovery is overrated because people who get it for non-cosmetic reasons don't seem to make nearly as much of a fuss about it


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

ifyouwannabemylover said:


> 4x general anesthesia for lip reduction jfllll
> 
> for local they inject that stuff here
> View attachment 1424747
> ...


Everytime the reductions were thrown in to a more extensive surgery. LIke lower lid retraction repair plus lip reduction. or Rhino + lip reduction. Or finally, lower lip plus upper lip reduction plus mouth corner raising surgery.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> maybe like 1-1.25 years.
> 
> I wouldn't have gotten it if I thought the result would be anything close to crippled. The surgeries just take some time to recover from. And then you should stretch lifelong in order to avoid arthritis later on. Since once you're recovered you can walk fine and play sports at a diminished athleticism, but the main thing is your soft tissues will still be tight and long term that's bad.


so Dr. Shahab Mahboubian's claim is a lie basically ? he claim that you can go back to workout heavily after 6-8 months but you say 1-1,25 years even proper walking


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> so Dr. Shahab Mahboubian's claim is a lie basically ? he claim that you can go back to workout heavily after 6-8 months but you say 1-1,25 years even proper walking


He's referring to femurs or conventional limit (<=5 cm) tibia lengthenings. I did 7.5 cm tibias, after having done femurs previously. Completely different variables.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 2, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> He's referring to femurs or conventional limit (<=5 cm) tibia lengthenings. I did 7.5 cm tibias, after having done femurs previously. Completely different variables.


woww, so if i get like 5 cm on tibia only, i can go back to normal life after 6 months ?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 2, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> woww, so if i get like 5 cm on tibia only, i can go back to normal life after 6 months ?


ya


----------



## vtribal (Dec 3, 2021)

Holy shit 2 LLs, after all of these surgeries how would people still be able to recognize you? Is that something you worry about?


----------



## Deleted member 14848 (Dec 3, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> These are my eyes today. As you can see, just a little more reduction of upper eyelid swelling on my right side leads to a big improvement. Once all the swelling is gone, as well as my skin is recovered from CO2, I'd expect even the close-up of the eyes to look quite aesthetic, nevermind its contribution to overall harmony on my tallish and broad head.


u seem to have a very weak browridge
May I ask what's your origin?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 3, 2021)

vtribal said:


> Holy shit 2 LLs, after all of these surgeries how would people still be able to recognize you? Is that something you worry about?


old friends from HS/college can't recognize me I'm sure, but I don't keep in contact with them anyways.


SteelTitan said:


> u seem to have a very weak browridge
> May I ask what's your origin?


Mentioned on the first page, Jewish. Brow ridge is one area I'm not sold on having to be strong, but I might get some frontal forehead/browridge implant in the future for a moderate projection enhancement.


----------



## Deleted member 14848 (Dec 3, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> old friends from HS/college can't recognize me I'm sure, but I don't keep in contact with them anyways.
> 
> Mentioned on the first page, Jewish. Brow ridge is one area I'm not sold on having to be strong, but I might get some frontal forehead/browridge implant in the future for a moderate projection enhancement.


Can u answer pm?
I would like to get advice cause I never met someone that knowledgeable tbh


----------



## joseph (Dec 3, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.
> 
> I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).
> 
> ...


Congrats. You did the 2 most invasive surgeries that have the greatest potential to increase smv and fix flaws. I've wanted to do both but I thought it was impossible for different reasons - LL practically because of money and OBO because safety and I didn't know that anyone actually offered it even for aesthetic purposes.


----------



## Win200 (Dec 3, 2021)

MoeZart said:


> @Win200 you've been over-taken as the guy that actually went to all our favorite surgeons.
> this dude spent $600k and probably 3 years in bed recovering, what a guy, got every surgery under the sun.
> View attachment 1424110
> 
> ...


Oh my god I'm not even close to being in this league


----------



## PubertyMaxxer (Dec 3, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I estimate I have, ya. Each LL about 100k, like 3-4 lower eyelid/hunter-eye attempts totalling 100k, rhino, jaw and chin implants (later replaced by wraparound), temporal and forehead implants (the latter of which will be removed and replaced with the big skull implant), deltoid-widening implants, HT, numerous lip reductions and facial fat removal attempts, experimentation with filler when I was less "established" (my parents helped me with my first 200k of surgeries I'd say).
> 
> I started looks-maxxing at 23.5, and will finish around my 32nd birthday within 2 months. I am now at least HTN if not chad-lite, at 6 inches taller than my original self. I probably have left out a bunch of other shit I did. It's been a crazy ride that started back in the days of PUAhate, which mostly confirmed all my suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill.


Why did you not go for a much more affordable LL surgeon in Turkey?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 3, 2021)

PubertyMaxxer said:


> Why did you not go for a much more affordable LL surgeon in Turkey?


LL is definitely not the thing to cheap out on. Rhino or HT, sure, but not LL. The main benefit of doing it in the US is the doctor's and hospital's ability to deal with worst-case scenarios.


----------



## deepweb1298 (Dec 3, 2021)

Could you share some of the scans regarding jaw wraparound? Like how much bigonial width projection you were thinking of in relation to bizygo width?
Also what are your thoughts on long term bone erosion or complications due to implants? Dr Zarrinbal personally hates any kind of jaw implants due to complications. What are your thoughts on this?


----------



## AlwaysHaveQuestions (Dec 4, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> On femur, I'd say fully healed (no limp at all) was like 2 years. For tibia, I'm only 7.5 months post now, barely walking. For femurs I was walking 6 months post and at 9-10 I felt normal though still limped a bit. I expect to walk halfway normally in like 4 months from now tbh. So nearly a full year after my tibia surgery.


when you say limp do you mean your leg gives out at times or it's a consistent weakness?

also it looks like your eyes are less deep set(arab pheno) in after. isn't it impossible to make the eye more forward because that would strain the nerves

did the fat graft stick


----------



## lilhorizontal32 (Dec 4, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


mirin your inhibition levels. were you not worried about surgical risks/complications?


----------



## lilhorizontal32 (Dec 4, 2021)

Titbot said:


> Yes that’s what Pagnoni did for me. It mogs hard


you already got the surgery with pagnoni bro?


----------



## PubertyMaxxer (Dec 4, 2021)

Titbot said:


> Yes that’s what Pagnoni did for me. It mogs hard


Can you make a thread on this method to increase pfl?


----------



## PubertyMaxxer (Dec 4, 2021)

Titbot said:


> The Infra orbitals rims are needed to shape the lower lid in achieving an aesthetic eye shape


Aren't Infraorbital-Malar-Maxillary implants ideal then?


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 4, 2021)

@CosmicMaxxer have you got x-ray on your femur after healing process complete? i mean do you have weaker femur bones now or is it same with other tall people? 
if you get impact on femur, is it easy to be fractured ?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 4, 2021)

deepweb1298 said:


> Could you share some of the scans regarding jaw wraparound? Like how much bigonial width projection you were thinking of in relation to bizygo width?
> Also what are your thoughts on long term bone erosion or complications due to implants? Dr Zarrinbal personally hates any kind of jaw implants due to complications. What are your thoughts on this?


I aimed for a roughly .85 ratio. I started with 154 mm skin to skin zygo arch width, and 122 for the jaws. So I added 1 cm of width overall. 5 mm on each side is amongst the lowest you'll see in male jaw implants, which just shows how ignorant most people who get these implants are. As if 1 cm of extra bigonial is nearly ever insufficient.

Bone erosion is less likely to occur in a wraparound because it wraps around a lower border which is less likely to erode bone. Also, bone actually overgrows the implants. Eppley had to remove quite a lot of bone overlying my original jaw angles for example. Silicone is perfectly fine. I find all the paranoia about it to be some weird European thing.

Attached pics of jaw implant and skull (for those interested).


AlwaysHaveQuestions said:


> when you say limp do you mean your leg gives out at times or it's a consistent weakness?
> 
> also it looks like your eyes are less deep set(arab pheno) in after. isn't it impossible to make the eye more forward because that would strain the nerves
> 
> did the fat graft stick


My leg doesn't give out in any dangerous way, I've never fallen. It's more consistent weakness, soreness, tightness, pain, and general difficulty. It just takes a good amount of time to recover, but shit always returns to normal, unless you define "normal" as being as competitive in sports as you were before.

That's a great observation, not many people notice that. Ya, they do look a bit less deep, which isn't something I was expecting. Are you saying having less deep set eyes is an arab pheno, or that more deep eyes is arab and my change makes me less arab looking? Anyways, this occurred because the doc moved the boxes forwards a bit, which gave me mogger orbital/frontal malar projection, more than I even wanted as I didn't ask him to move them forwards. Overall It looks nicer though, more approachable. Fat grafts are good but you have to get them multiple times in an area to really see an impressive result.



lilhorizontal32 said:


> mirin your inhibition levels. were you not worried about surgical risks/complications?


None of these surgeries has a "serious" incidence rate above like .1% or something. OBO in this day and age with modern 3d planning has near 100% success rate, and that's in patients with anatomical defects. In a healthy person with intact Dura, honestly there's more risk of being injured in a car accident or violent crime. LL in the US is also nearly fool-proof, complications are rare and very treatable if they do occur.

As for other facial surgeries, you have to research the doctor's aptitude for a given surgery, and have enough anatomical understanding to verify extremely low risk of getting botched. And backup plans if you do get "botched" in any way. For example, one time I went too aggressive with permanent filler in the malars, and later got some of it removed in a lower eyelid retraction surgery. And recently got Morpheus8 to tighten up the looseness left.



randomvanish said:


> @CosmicMaxxer have you got x-ray on your femur after healing process complete? i mean do you have weaker femur bones now or is it same with other tall people?
> if you get impact on femur, is it easy to be fractured ?


Once the bone is fully healed and remodeled, it is no weaker than anyone else's femur. The athletic biomechanics may be worse due to more soft tissue tightness than average which could potentially lead to easier injury, but the bone integrity is no worse than anyone else's.


----------



## AlwaysHaveQuestions (Dec 4, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> My leg doesn't give out in any dangerous way, I've never fallen. It's more consistent weakness, soreness, tightness, pain, and general difficulty. It just takes a good amount of time to recover, but shit always returns to normal, unless you define "normal" as being as competitive in sports as you were before.
> 
> That's a great observation, not many people notice that. Ya, they do look a bit less deep, which isn't something I was expecting. Are you saying having less deep set eyes is an arab pheno, or that more deep eyes is arab and my change makes me less arab looking? Anyways, this occurred because the doc moved the boxes forwards a bit, which gave me mogger orbital/frontal malar projection, more than I even wanted as I didn't ask him to move them forwards. Overall It looks nicer though, more approachable. Fat grafts are good but you have to get them multiple times in an area to really see an impressive result.


great to hear it would suck if you legs give out while crossing the road or pressing on a pedal at 90 mph jfl

i am saying you look less arab. im guessing they move the boxes forward but your eyeball is the same distance from your brain or wherever the optic nerves are attached to. would that mean the regular OBO advancement will decrease ipd? your medial canthus show looks smaller



to





btw do you mind explaining to me the reason you did fat grafts. is it suppose to be done in conjunction with eyelid retraction for a more natural look to prevent the melenia trump look where there is too much area with thin lower eyelid


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 4, 2021)

AlwaysHaveQuestions said:


> great to hear it would suck if you legs give out while crossing the road or pressing on a pedal at 90 mph jfl
> 
> i am saying you look less arab. im guessing they move the boxes forward but your eyeball is the same distance from your brain or wherever the optic nerves are attached to. would that mean the regular OBO advancement will decrease ipd? your medial canthus show looks smaller
> View attachment 1426707
> ...


I wouldn't be shocked if my medial canthus show decreased, I've wondered to myself if it's always been this small.
Just a forwards OBO movement? Hard to say tbh, the dynamics of how dimensions like pfl change in these surgeries is always a mystery. We need a medical school/residency understanding of ocular anatomy to predict these things. Giant Implants for example says that a lateral orbital wall movement alone (something Dr. S suggested as an alternative) would not necessarily increase pfl without a medial bone graft. One of the reasons I chose OBO over lateral wall osteotomy, the certainty of the cosmetic gain (IPD). Plus IPD affects facial harmony more imo.

The fat grafts under the eyelids help prevent/heal existing scar tissue (from prior surgeries) and give extra buffer to the lower lid. It's almost like an easy way to do a "spacer graft". Maybe not quite as thorough but still effective if someone doesn't have extreme retraction.

I've attached a newer pic of my eyes in the mirror at an angle, co2 burn now clearing up. One of my eyelids is still clearly swollen. Overall, I think the eye aesthetics are coming along quite well.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 4, 2021)

Actually I'm sure my medial canthus show has decreased, because my outercanthal increased post OBO as expected, but my intercanthal increased more mm than the movement (6-7 mm). Kinda sucks I guess. But good to know my actual "substantive" eye area (iris + inner + outer sclera) is decent horizontal length. I'm guessing that somewhat mitigates the relatively disproportionate overall pfl. Not including the skinny red part of my eyes, they are not significantly shorter than ideal. Just a side effect of cosmetic surgery, a random small unnaturalness as part of the price of admission.


----------



## lilhorizontal32 (Dec 4, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I aimed for a roughly .85 ratio. I started with 154 mm skin to skin zygo arch width, and 122 for the jaws. So I added 1 cm of width overall. 5 mm on each side is amongst the lowest you'll see in male jaw implants, which just shows how ignorant most people who get these implants are. As if 1 cm of extra bigonial is nearly ever insufficient.
> 
> Bone erosion is less likely to occur in a wraparound because it wraps around a lower border which is less likely to erode bone. Also, bone actually overgrows the implants. Eppley had to remove quite a lot of bone overlying my original jaw angles for example. Silicone is perfectly fine. I find all the paranoia about it to be some weird European thing.
> 
> ...


thanks for the response. mind if I can see your before and afters? will keep it private of course


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 4, 2021)

This is something I'd be curious to try to eek out more pfl. Seems like it may be more effective than surgery for this purpose. Anybody live in Italy who can try this out?


----------



## Deleted member 15985 (Dec 5, 2021)

I'm speeches and astounded, wow.

Congrats on discovering looksmaxxing early enough (aged 23.5; I only discovered it at 26.5) and having the resources and dedication to pull it all off. I'm a 171cm Israeli Jew myself, and though I won't follow in your hardmaxxing path, I must say that what you've done is incredibly admirable, and "crazy" in a positive, pioneering kind of way. Bravo, brother.

Looking forward to your LL thread.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> soft tissue tightness than average which could potentially lead to easier injury


you mean muscle and soft tissue injury? do you feel thightness regularly after femur surgery? what is your experience from your first surgery?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 5, 2021)

Sup-Gent said:


> I'm speeches and astounded, wow.
> 
> Congrats on discovering looksmaxxing early enough (aged 23.5; I only discovered it at 26.5) and having the resources and dedication to pull it all off. I'm a 171cm Israeli Jew myself, and though I won't follow in your hardmaxxing path, I must say that what you've done is incredibly admirable, and "crazy" in a positive, pioneering kind of way. Bravo, brother.
> 
> Looking forward to your LL thread.


Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.



randomvanish said:


> you mean muscle and soft tissue injury? do you feel thightness regularly after femur surgery? what is your experience from your first surgery?


Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured. 

Ya the tightness from the first surgery lasted quite a while. At 6 months I could walk, 9 months to normalish gait 2 years to perfectly normal gait. Struggled with tennis due to muscle tightness making me so sore afterwards. But it gets better over time, and the more you stretch the more you'll get to that "90%" pre-LL athletic recovery cliche.


----------



## ifyouwannabemylover (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.
> 
> 
> Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured.
> ...


6 inches+ LL is pretty nutty. I would have gone to like 5'10 and called it a day tbh.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.
> 
> 
> Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured.
> ...


what are the horror stories about LL in long term you know? have you been contacted/talked with paley's patients who got decades/years ago? i mean are they having problems in long term? what are your experiences and knowledge about other patients?
have you been in LL forum ? i saw some disasters


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.
> 
> 
> Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured.
> ...


i remember a guy from LL , who got 11 cm on tibia in russia in like 2000 or something like that feeling still wonderful. 
there are some really crazy, sad stories too though. like completely unable to walk after LL etc. please share your knowledge,rumors, findings with me


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.
> 
> 
> Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured.
> ...


also after harming bone marrow due to rod in the leg, does it have any affect on bone health?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 5, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> what are the horror stories about LL in long term you know? have you been contacted/talked with paley's patients who got decades/years ago? i mean are they having problems in long term? what are your experiences and knowledge about other patients?
> have you been in LL forum ? i saw some disasters


Worst is some rich early 20's bitcoin millionaire who went to Guichet and died of DVT in his hospital room the day after LL. There's a jezebel article his douchey sister wrote about him

I don't really have any contacts with other LL'ers tbh.

"Disasters" to me are misaligned legs (x-legs), non-union, things that imply permanent damage. They only occur overseas. In the US, the worst I've seen is guys having their rods removed too early and breaking their legs. I recall seeing this twice. One of them was a Paley patient who broke his femurs waiting in the checkout line of a grocery store.

The other thing that can go wrong is you get the surgery and realize you aren't really cut out for it. For example, my physical therapist mentioned she started PT with some 21 year old who refuses to push himself at all and do any difficult exercises, so she told him to find another PT. You need to be willing to endure pain and commit to stretching every day, especially in the 2-3 months of lengthening.



randomvanish said:


> also after harming bone marrow due to rod in the leg, does it have any affect on bone health?


I don't believe so. Once the rods are removed, bone marrow will fill in the canal. Not sure what the time scale on that is. But regardless, I highly doubt bone marrow affects biomechanics in any substantial way.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I've seen is guys having their rods removed too early and breaking their legs. I recall seeing this twice. One of them was a Paley patient who broke his femurs waiting in the checkout line of a grocery store.


DAMN! too early like what? how many months/years ?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 5, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> DAMN! too early like what? how many months/years ?


I think they both did it a flat 1 year after. Which is what my doc is recommending lol. As long as the x-ray is good it should be no issue. It's a freak occurrence due to negligence.


----------



## randomvanish (Dec 5, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I think they both did it a flat 1 year after. Which is what my doc is recommending lol. As long as the x-ray is good it should be no issue. It's a freak occurrence due to negligence.


what would happen if you don't remove that? i mean what's the harm


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 5, 2021)

randomvanish said:


> what would happen if you don't remove that? i mean what's the harm


over time it may leak some relatively harmless metal ions. Also, removing the rod and allowing the bone marrow to rush back in is part of a "complete recovery". Moving your legs with a rod inside it does not feel as smooth as without it.


----------



## ropemax (Dec 6, 2021)

First psler to take the advice "get a skull transplant" to heart.


----------



## Deleted member 15985 (Dec 6, 2021)

In the long-term, have all of these surgeries compromised your overall health? That is, do you believe that you've taken a health-looks tradeoff, or are your lifespan and healthspan the same (or even better?) as prior to hardmaxxing? If anything did negatively affect your health, what specifically was it?


----------



## dakchuh (Dec 7, 2021)

how much did the OBO cost? i also have a really wide neurocranium with 15.5~16cm bizygoma width (havent been able to measure it accurately) with 64~65mm IPD, so like around 0.4~0.41 ES, extremely ogre tier. my head is simply wide, the cheekbones are not projected out, so i dont even know if zygoma reduction will do much for me. increasing my IPD will harmonize my ES ratio and midface ratio as i also have a long mid face, but my facial height/width ratio will still be off due to very wide bones and im curious if you have the same problem as well. what is your facial height measurement? (hairline to bottom of chin)


----------



## LebenistneHure (Dec 7, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> This is something I'd be curious to try to eek out more pfl. Seems like it may be more effective than surgery for this purpose. Anybody live in Italy who can try this out?



I have a feeling thi


dakchuh said:


> how much did the OBO cost? i also have a really wide neurocranium with 15.5~16cm bizygoma width (havent been able to measure it accurately) with 64~65mm IPD, so like around 0.4~0.41 ES, extremely ogre tier. my head is simply wide, the cheekbones are not projected out, so i dont even know if zygoma reduction will do much for me. increasing my IPD will harmonize my ES ratio and midface ratio as i also have a long mid face, but my facial height/width ratio will still be off due to very wide bones and im curious if you have the same problem as well. what is your facial height measurement? (hairline to bottom of chin)


Obo was around 55k


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 8, 2021)

dakchuh said:


> how much did the OBO cost? i also have a really wide neurocranium with 15.5~16cm bizygoma width (havent been able to measure it accurately) with 64~65mm IPD, so like around 0.4~0.41 ES, extremely ogre tier. my head is simply wide, the cheekbones are not projected out, so i dont even know if zygoma reduction will do much for me. increasing my IPD will harmonize my ES ratio and midface ratio as i also have a long mid face, but my facial height/width ratio will still be off due to very wide bones and im curious if you have the same problem as well. what is your facial height measurement? (hairline to bottom of chin)


Actually looking at the balance sheet, it was presented as 56k that was discounted to 44k.
Ya I had a similar situation, in that my zygomatic arches didn't project much so shaving them down would be dumb. I have a high fwhr but I think it's a good thing. Moderately tall and very broad face/skull with good spacing/features is ideal imo (harmonious skull-mog). My facial length is about 8 inches/20.3 cm.


----------



## Deleted member 8461 (Dec 8, 2021)

are there limitations as to which surgeries you can get after OBO? aren't there metal plates holding your orbitals together, like would you be able to get supraorbital/infraorbital rim or zygo implants afterwards?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 8, 2021)

wolfhaleywang said:


> are there limitations as to which surgeries you can get after OBO? aren't there metal plates holding your orbitals together, like would you be able to get supraorbital/infraorbital rim or zygo implants afterwards?


Ya but they'd have to be custom-made (which I would do anyways) to fit along the arch and over the plates. I think bimax or any other facial skeleton breaking procedure may be off-limits due to the relative fragility of the new framework.


----------



## Deleted member 8461 (Dec 8, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ya but they'd have to be custom-made (which I would do anyways) to fit along the arch and over the plates. I think bimax or any other *facial skeleton breaking procedure *may be off-limits due to the relative fragility of the new framework.


thanks, do you think genio would be fine though?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 8, 2021)

wolfhaleywang said:


> thanks, do you think genio would be fine though?


ya that's the mandible which is a separate framework you could say.


----------



## dakchuh (Dec 8, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ya but they'd have to be custom-made (which I would do anyways) to fit along the arch and over the plates. I think bimax or any other facial skeleton breaking procedure may be off-limits due to the relative fragility of the new framework.


damn, i need bimax as well. OBO might be a no go for me if there could be stability issues. would you pm me your before and after?


----------



## eloheepnitsif (Dec 9, 2021)

Impressive. I stumbled upon lookism later than you did relatively speaking. Had surgeries at mid thirties and the difference it makes for me is night and day. Definitely better to spend money on this than rsd video's.

Is sex with sugar babies a bit similar to sex with hookers? I like sex with a girl that wants to fuck because she is attracted to me so much better than a girl that does it for money, but never tried a sugar baby.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 11, 2021)

eloheepnitsif said:


> Impressive. I stumbled upon lookism later than you did relatively speaking. Had surgeries at mid thirties and the difference it makes for me is night and day. Definitely better to spend money on this than rsd video's.
> 
> Is sex with sugar babies a bit similar to sex with hookers? I like sex with a girl that wants to fuck because she is attracted to me so much better than a girl that does it for money, but never tried a sugar baby.


Sugar babies are regular chicks (in college, or holding a day job) who are desperate. Most of them are new and don't do it for long. Though if you get along well enough they'll see you multiple times. So it's more if like, the hottest girl in your hs agreed to spend time and sleep with you if you payed her. Much different than some nasty trashy hooker.


----------



## Squirtoutmabooty (Dec 11, 2021)

Who even would do OBO?


----------



## Kiero (Dec 13, 2021)

This is an extremely inspiring thread.

I have not been around as long as you, I first encountered PSL around the 2015-2016 era.

It seems like this forum is much more interested in actual looksmaxxing as opposed to shitposting all day.

Best of luck on your journey. I may consider speaking to you about Taban, but from what you've said, it seems there may be better oculoplastic surgeons.


----------



## MiroslavBulldosex (Dec 13, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I estimate I have, ya. Each LL about 100k, like 3-4 lower eyelid/hunter-eye attempts totalling 100k, rhino, jaw and chin implants (later replaced by wraparound), temporal and forehead implants (the latter of which will be removed and replaced with the big skull implant), deltoid-widening implants, HT, numerous lip reductions and facial fat removal attempts, experimentation with filler when I was less "established" (my parents helped me with my first 200k of surgeries I'd say).
> 
> I started looks-maxxing at 23.5, and will finish around my 32nd birthday within 2 months. I am now at least HTN if not chad-lite, at 6 inches taller than my original self. I probably have left out a bunch of other shit I did. It's been a crazy ride that started back in the days of PUAhate, which mostly confirmed all my suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill.


----------



## MiroslavBulldosex (Dec 13, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I never explicitly expanded my zygo arch width. I believe it grew overtime in combination with a tendency to gain weight there. My face was actually narrow looking around age 18. I did get temporal implants at 24 (under the temporalis muscle) but that should not affect zygo width as it is slightly above.
> 
> 
> Paley stopped me at like 7.2 cm on my femurs with the excuse that my bone would refracture if I lengthened more due to the original fracture being too jagged or something. AKA his incompetency with the original fracture cost me like 8 mm (8 cm limit rods). For tibias they stop most people at 5-6 cm. Some even at 4-5 if they are too "tight". Mahboubian hesitated to let me go to 6.5 when I was at 5 because of how tight I was, and when we got to 6.5 I asked him to let me get to 7, then I went to 7.5 at home without him knowing lol. He didn't mind so much because even though I was tight, I get PT everyday, and my bone regrowth is very strong, so no chance of nonunion. I also have the money for muscle release surgeries should I need them.
> ...


Absolutely insane.
Since you seem to have done every surgery in the book, do you know if laser is effective to get rid of acne scars and flat moles/sun spots/discoloration?


----------



## APJ (Dec 13, 2021)

@CosmicMaxxer you mention that your surgeries "mostly confirmed all your suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill". Could you tell us more about this? Did your results with girls skyrocket, did you get better treatment from men, did it help you professionally, etc.

Also, the commitment shown is impressive and honestly I'm not sure if this is just outrageously extreme (to the point of dysmorphia/fucked risk-reward calculations), or just someone living their best life. Regardless, I hope it has given/will give you what you want, and thanks for sharing all this info with us so we can better know about these procedures.


----------



## cmfanel (Dec 14, 2021)

dropping 500k to invisible to women


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 14, 2021)

cmfanel said:


> dropping 500k to invisible to women


At least get the grammar right on the cliche


----------



## Linoob (Dec 15, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I estimate I have, ya. Each LL about 100k, like 3-4 lower eyelid/hunter-eye attempts totalling 100k, rhino, jaw and chin implants (later replaced by wraparound), temporal and forehead implants (the latter of which will be removed and replaced with the big skull implant), deltoid-widening implants, HT, numerous lip reductions and facial fat removal attempts, experimentation with filler when I was less "established" (my parents helped me with my first 200k of surgeries I'd say).
> 
> I started looks-maxxing at 23.5, and will finish around my 32nd birthday within 2 months. I am now at least HTN if not chad-lite, at 6 inches taller than my original self. I probably have left out a bunch of other shit I did. It's been a crazy ride that started back in the days of PUAhate, which mostly confirmed all my suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill.



Just have half a million dollars for surgery theory


----------



## Linoob (Dec 15, 2021)

I want to believe these surgeries ascended you into some sort of mythical being but the reality of the situation is most people who undergo this many procedures end up looking botched and uncanny.


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 15, 2021)

Linoob said:


> I want to believe these surgeries ascended you into some sort of mythical being but the reality of the situation is most people who undergo this many procedures end up looking botched and uncanny.


Many ppl have seen my pics and know I've ascended, but the end result will be available by late January. I've been very quantitative and meticulous in choosing procedures/implants. The number one response I get from normies when I reveal my surgery journey is "wow, looks so natural, can't believe you had work done."


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 15, 2021)

MiroslavBulldosex said:


> Absolutely insane.
> Since you seem to have done every surgery in the book, do you know if laser is effective to get rid of acne scars and flat moles/sun spots/discoloration?


Morpheus8 and CO2, maybe bellafill for deep scars.


----------



## Real (Dec 17, 2021)

Thanks for the Thread!


CosmicMaxxer said:


> For ex. when I was younger I got jaw angle and chin implants which moved around and didn't provide enough augmentation. Only recently did I replace with a wraparound that is 10x as effective.


Damn.. do these always move? I read that they only recently fix them to the bone?
Please see my pics (front and side) here and spread some of your wisdom, would be greatly appreciated:
(i guess i would be most interested in what to do for my eye area, i guess thats what my face would need the most)








Rhino, Chin-implant, Mandibular Implant and/or Browridge Implant? (pics)


Morphed Chin, mandibular angle, nose and bowridge. I guess this should all be possible: with rhino, mandibular implants (?), chin implants, bowridge implants. (I don’t know if with mandibular implants results like this are really possible, gotta look it up. Or if there is chin implant and...




looksmax.org


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 17, 2021)

APJ said:


> @CosmicMaxxer you mention that your surgeries "mostly confirmed all your suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill". Could you tell us more about this? Did your results with girls skyrocket, did you get better treatment from men, did it help you professionally, etc.
> 
> Also, the commitment shown is impressive and honestly I'm not sure if this is just outrageously extreme (to the point of dysmorphia/fucked risk-reward calculations), or just someone living their best life. Regardless, I hope it has given/will give you what you want, and thanks for sharing all this info with us so we can better know about these procedures.


Back when I was ugly I would get incredibly rude responses for harmless things, i.e. a girl would tell me I'm killing her vibe just by asking her how her night was going lol. As I got into average-ish territory, I got standard average guy treatment, i.e. girls giving me lots of advice/critique to try to make me "better". TBH, it's over COVID that I ascended to being significantly above average, so I don't yet have tons of experience with this. From my limited experience, people give less advice and accept your actions for their intended effects as opposed to faulting you for the implementation.


----------



## rubybrrr (Dec 17, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm already nearing the end of my surgery journey, and I didn't spend 600k so I'd have to move to Thailand lol.


What software language do you recommend learning to get to where you are?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Dec 18, 2021)

rubybrrr said:


> What software language do you recommend learning to get to where you are?


Any of c++, java, python, or Javascript


----------



## b1zey (Dec 21, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Any of c++, java, python, or Javascript


So, if it is all thread don't trolling or joke, i have many questions cuz i wanna go through surgerymaxxing way.
And now, main question - you are become a Chad or Chadlite?
Can you rate youself 1-10? Or PSL.
Also i DM u, if u have free time please answer me


----------



## Jamesothy (Dec 21, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history.


Freak! You are a freak! Wow! 

Daddy? What was Elliot Rodger really like?


----------



## Deleted member 4430 (Dec 21, 2021)

b1zey said:


> And now, main question - you are become a Chad or Chadlite?
> Can you rate youself 1-10? Or PSL.


Hahaha
You wish, greycel....... You wish


----------



## b1zey (Dec 21, 2021)

Rupert Pupkin said:


> Hahaha
> You wish, greycel....... You wish


I don't understand what u say.


----------



## Trynaascend (Dec 23, 2021)

What was the process like with dr steinbacher? I'm surprised he did the obo for aesthetic purposes. Brutal surgery


----------



## Slayerino (Dec 26, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Back when I was ugly I would get incredibly rude responses for harmless things, i.e. a girl would tell me I'm killing her vibe just by asking her how her night was going lol. As I got into average-ish territory, I got standard average guy treatment, i.e. girls giving me lots of advice/critique to try to make me "better". TBH, it's over COVID that I ascended to being significantly above average, so I don't yet have tons of experience with this. From my limited experience, people give less advice and accept your actions for their intended effects as opposed to faulting you for the implementation.


So, to recap, after $700k of surgeries, you're still betabuxxing (sugar babies) and can't even walk. Was it worth it?


----------



## _____ (Dec 27, 2021)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I went to this clinic in Korea: https://www.engfreshps.com/facial-liposuction
> Did a decent job because they will suck out fat from literally anywhere in the face.


How lean can you get with this?


----------



## Deleted member 15984 (Dec 28, 2021)

Brilliant thread. I'm looking for bi-max advice and help myself


----------



## Wallenberg (Dec 30, 2021)

@CosmicMaxxer do you gymmax?

Also liked your posts because you are actual surgerymaxer unlike many others here.


----------



## dracoreptile (Jan 2, 2022)

Use The Forwardontics Bow Instead for only $350 all of these surgeries are retarded and useless only maxilla matters in this life


----------



## Deleted member 6531 (Jan 3, 2022)

lutte said:


> Actual mental illness


I was waiting for this comment tbh, surprised it took so long for me to see it. I'm all for looksmaxxing and shit but this is too much for my liking and probably indicates this dude is mentally ill


----------



## Lorsss (Jan 7, 2022)

dracoreptile said:


> Use The Forwardontics Bow Instead for only $350 all of these surgeries are retarded and useless only maxilla matters in this life


everyone in this forum has enough time to spend a whole year wearing a facepuller 16 hours a day, with unpredictable outcomes, just to save 10k of orthognatic surgery.


----------



## Lorsss (Jan 7, 2022)

Slayerino said:


> So, to recap, after $700k of surgeries, you're still betabuxxing (sugar babies) and can't even walk. Was it worth it?



if I were OP, I would have reduced the surgery budget (e.g. just 15k dollars for LL in Turkey) and I would have invested the resting money for honest sex with prostitutes


----------



## Deleted member 14024 (Jan 7, 2022)

Legendary thread. Excited to see the results soon


----------



## WannaBeA6 (Jan 7, 2022)

Holy fuck, so it's you? I'm a fan of Taban and I recognized your B/A from his site lmao
It's ironic you left your picture there since you don't like him, tbh, your result indeed was weak, but there are stellar results in his page
Your PFL is too low btw, that's why your eye area will never look model-tier, you can't pull the cat eye shape thing


----------



## CristianT (Jan 8, 2022)

WannaBeA6 said:


> Holy fuck, so it's you? I'm a fan of Taban and I recognized your B/A from his site lmao
> It's ironic you left your picture there since you don't like him, tbh, your result indeed was weak, but there are stellar results in his page
> Your PFL is too low btw, that's why your eye area will never look model-tier, you can't pull the cat eye shape thing


is this him?


----------



## Deleted member 16834 (Jan 8, 2022)

@CosmicMaxxer 

would you mind pming your latest picture bro


----------



## Deleted member 16834 (Jan 8, 2022)

eloheepnitsif said:


> Impressive. I stumbled upon lookism later than you did relatively speaking. Had surgeries at mid thirties and the difference it makes for me is night and day. Definitely better to spend money on this than rsd video's.
> 
> Is sex with sugar babies a bit similar to sex with hookers? I like sex with a girl that wants to fuck because she is attracted to me so much better than a girl that does it for money, but never tried a sugar baby.



@eloheepnitsif holy shit, which surgeries did you get that ascended you so much


----------



## WannaBeA6 (Jan 8, 2022)

CristianT said:


> is this him?
> View attachment 1483866


did you read his posts?


----------



## eyebagcel (Jan 8, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I actually already have infraorbital implants from Taban, plus the OBO (unbeknownst to me initially) moved my orbitals forwards, so my ogee curve is actually over-pronounced now.


so if I were to get infra orbital implants(WITHOUT malar implants) from eppley, I would get an improvement to my flat ogee curve?

I need infraorbital implants to fill the under eye in the profile view and provide lift to my lower eyelids, but if it can add just a tiny bit of angularity to my ogee curve that would be amazing


----------



## Squirtoutmabooty (Jan 8, 2022)

CristianT said:


> is this him?
> View attachment 1483866


No


----------



## Entschuldigung (Jan 8, 2022)

How do you know you don't look uncanny @CosmicMaxxer ?


----------



## Cigarette (Jan 8, 2022)

you're a crazy motherfucker. respect


----------



## CopeTilliRope (Jan 9, 2022)

man it's insane i'm admiring your dedication . i'm onsidering obo but do you know of any suregery to reduce actual midface lenght or philtrum lenght at least for someone with no gummy smile at all ? thanks


----------



## Optimization (Jan 12, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ok here is just the eye region. Please don't share or popularize over the net. I will likely delete the link tomorrow. Caveats are described in the link (swollen upper lids with the right one in the pic being worse, co2 laser done recently), so this is hardly representative of a final result, but to spare you the wait:



Hey Cosmic do you have a new picture without all the swelling? I shared your before and after with my sister and her friends and they all say your before looks better (not trolling). Can you prove them wrong please?


----------



## Optimization (Jan 12, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Definitely LL, nothing comes close. All the pains the first month of femur surgery were exhausting. Tibia not so much. Thought the first 2 days of Tibia was "redefining pain" since they took me off the morphine drip on only the 2nd day. At Paley's for femur, I had 6 days of drip.


Was your limb lengthening with an internal or external fixator? I found a legit clinic in India (was vouched by a good Indian friend of mine) and they quoted this to me. Does this sound right? What should I go for Cosmic? 


*1. With External fixator - This will cost approximately $24000 and 4 months. This will help you to gain between 4-6 inches.

2. With Internal Fixator - This will cost approximately $56000 and 3 months. This will help you to gain between 4-5 inches.*


----------



## zeek (Jan 12, 2022)

You know anything about Steinbachers aesthetics with custom implants? He's an expert on paper and willing to do box osteotomies but he's seems focused on reconstruction and doesn't have a lot of B&A or writing to go off of.


----------



## Optimization (Jan 12, 2022)

zeek said:


> You know anything about Steinbachers aesthetics with custom implants? He's an expert on paper and willing to do box osteotomies but he's seems focused on reconstruction and doesn't have a lot of B&A or writing to go off of.


Even Eppley doesn't know how the implant will turn out until it's in and swelling is gone. At least that's what he said to me during my consultation. If you do implants you have to factor in the chance of revision even if you go custom.


----------



## zeek (Jan 12, 2022)

Optimization said:


> Even Eppley doesn't know how the implant will turn out until it's in and swelling is gone. At least that's what he said to me during my consultation. If you do implants you have to factor in the chance of revision even if you go custom.


Yeah I get that as a hedge,

I just want to know if Steinbacher does similar work to say Dr Y or E with custom implants. I think Dr Y is the best for the cheeks for me but is harder to work with.


----------



## Optimization (Jan 12, 2022)

zeek said:


> Yeah I get that as a hedge,
> 
> I just want to know if Steinbacher does similar work to say Dr Y or E with custom implants. I think Dr Y is the best for the cheeks for me but is harder to work with.


I'd honestly go with Steinbach because Eppley is kind of getting old and well Steinbach could use the extra custom made implant practice if you get my drift. Just ask Steinbacher to consult with Eppley if he hasn't done something before. Steinbacher is basically the main surgeon who's got our backs when Eppley moves on.


----------



## zeek (Jan 13, 2022)

Optimization said:


> I'd honestly go with Steinbach because Eppley is kind of getting old and well Steinbach could use the extra custom made implant practice if you get my drift. Just ask Steinbacher to consult with Eppley if he hasn't done something before. Steinbacher is basically the main surgeon who's got our backs when Eppley moves on.


I don't want someone to practice on me I'll do a consult with him after my nose is done. But I need to see his work or something.


----------



## APJ (Jan 13, 2022)

Optimization said:


> Even Eppley doesn't know how the implant will turn out until it's in and swelling is gone. At least that's what he said to me during my consultation. If you do implants you have to factor in the chance of revision even if you go custom.


Standard plastic surgery advice: budget for the revision of the operation you’re going to get as well


----------



## Rich giù (Jan 15, 2022)

Well


CosmicMaxxer said:


> Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.
> 
> I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).
> 
> ...



Congratulations 
You are the living example that with hustle and dedication the ascension is possible. 

It is clear that you had a ton of money to invest, but, provided that you changed from ugly to aesthetically attractive, you made it real. The american dream in its aesthetic version. You said you have a well-paid job, so probably u are a very intelligent individual. 
I also have a prestigious degree, at least according to tradition, and I always thought that physical appearance us what matters the most when women come into play. 
Unlike you, when I was younger I didn't have your budget so I only underwent a nose job when I was 26. I'm well in my 30's now and it is basically over. Too many surgery with little time to come(though I am sure, from what I see, that beauty matters a lot even for older women or for ltr, because nobody wants to marry a physically ugly man). 
If I were 20 again, I would find a job and try different surgeries as much as I could. I needed, and I still need, a full lefort 3 to give myself a base. Even a good surgeon told me so, but he refused to perform it obviously. I am physically weak and it is such an invasive surgery. 
Instead, we tried with mini chin wing/genio and malar implants to improve a bit the situation, plus a browlift for the forehead getting older, but just for my own sake. 

Again congrats, and good luck with your last surgery. I don't log in much but I read sometimes, so please keep us updated with the results


----------



## ChristianChad (Jan 16, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I'm Jewish (half Sephardic half Ashkenazi). I looked light-skinned middle eastern-ish originally, and now I look Russian with a sprinkling of Asian (similar to tennis player Marat Safin).


אתה ישראלי גבר?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Jan 17, 2022)

blomqvisst said:


> Legendary thread. Excited to see the results soon


I can pm you my current results. Am likely gonna get a tripod for pfl increase, along with a few other tweaks in my last surgery.


WannaBeA6 said:


> Holy fuck, so it's you? I'm a fan of Taban and I recognized your B/A from his site lmao
> It's ironic you left your picture there since you don't like him, tbh, your result indeed was weak, but there are stellar results in his page
> Your PFL is too low btw, that's why your eye area will never look model-tier, you can't pull the cat eye shape thing


You haven't seen my full face, and the eyes look less short in a non lens distorted pic. Also, my eyes in that after are shit-tier, they don't look like that anymore. But ya, I'm gonna get pfl surgery.


Entschuldigung said:


> How do you know you don't look uncanny @CosmicMaxxer ?


Most people are shocked I've had surgery because of how natural I look. Only some surgeries and plans lead to uncaniness. Easy to avoid with a little research.


CopeTilliRope said:


> man it's insane i'm admiring your dedication . i'm onsidering obo but do you know of any suregery to reduce actual midface lenght or philtrum lenght at least for someone with no gummy smile at all ? thanks


I know of this one: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28005730/


Optimization said:


> Hey Cosmic do you have a new picture without all the swelling? I shared your before and after with my sister and her friends and they all say your before looks better (not trolling). Can you prove them wrong please?


It's clearly better because I had retraction before and I don't now. And ya it's less swollen now. 


Optimization said:


> Was your limb lengthening with an internal or external fixator? I found a legit clinic in India (was vouched by a good Indian friend of mine) and they quoted this to me. Does this sound right? What should I go for Cosmic?
> 
> 
> *1. With External fixator - This will cost approximately $24000 and 4 months. This will help you to gain between 4-6 inches.I st
> ...


stay in america. You'll prob regret cutting corner with this.


ChristianChad said:


> אתה ישראלי גבר?


parents are yes


----------



## SOS-Sonic (Jan 18, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> stay in america. You'll prob regret cutting corner with this.


This may sound ignorant, but breaking your legs and the undergoing distraction doesn't seem like an extremely complicated process compared to other surgeries. So is the difference from a recognized facility in Korea or Turkey for example, really that much worse than doing it in the US?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Jan 18, 2022)

SOS-Sonic said:


> This may sound ignorant, but breaking your legs and the undergoing distraction doesn't seem like an extremely complicated process compared to other surgeries. So is the difference from a recognized facility in Korea or Turkey for example, really that much worse than doing it in the US?


It actually is quite complicated, lots of steps that can go wrong in the procedure. A lot of people who cheap out on LL don't end up amputated or something, rather they may end up with slightly bent/curved legs that become extremely difficult to fix.
Watch Dr. Death on Peacock if you can. Those are truly simple surgeries and still botchable by someone not extremely competent.


----------



## CopeTilliRope (Jan 18, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I can pm you my current results. Am likely gonna get a tripod for pfl increase, along with a few other tweaks in my last surgery.
> 
> You haven't seen my full face, and the eyes look less short in a non lens distorted pic. Also, my eyes in that after are shit-tier, they don't look like that anymore. But ya, I'm gonna get pfl surgery.
> 
> ...


man can i pm you to get more info about your obo as i'm willing to do anything to improve my midface ratio. btw do you know if in the studies you linked me the method would be suitable for someone with no gummy smile but just an overall long midface? i've never see someone getting an impaction with no gummy smile so far.


----------



## Sinjiyam (Jan 18, 2022)

CopeTilliRope said:


> man can i pm you to get more info about your obo as i'm willing to do anything to improve my midface ratio. btw do you know if in the studies you linked me the method would be suitable for someone with no gummy smile but just an overall long midface? i've never see someone getting an impaction with no gummy smile so far.


Isn't posterior downgraft better?


----------



## Optimization (Jan 18, 2022)

Rich giù said:


> Well
> 
> 
> Congratulations
> ...


You literally can't get a lefort 3 and undo the sub-par procedures even if you found a surgeon to do it?

Why do you think being in your 30's your too old to do this shit?

Why are you physically weak?


----------



## Deleted member 14024 (Jan 18, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I can pm you my current results. Am likely gonna get a tripod for pfl increase, along with a few other tweaks in my last surgery.


Please do 👍


----------



## goat2x (Jan 27, 2022)

Deleted member 15985 said:


> I'm speeches and astounded, wow.
> 
> Congrats on discovering looksmaxxing early enough (aged 23.5; I only discovered it at 26.5) and having the resources and dedication to pull it all off. I'm a 171cm Israeli Jew myself, and though I won't follow in your hardmaxxing path, I must say that what you've done is incredibly admirable, and "crazy" in a positive, pioneering kind of way. Bravo, brother.
> 
> Looking forward to your LL thread.


jew bitch.

Im jewish my self and i have he same failos as op, jewish inbred faggot phenotype.

I aint spending 700k on that i dont even have it, wish the nazis would have gassed our asses.


----------



## joeveniro (Jan 27, 2022)

goat2x said:


> jew bitch.
> 
> Im jewish my self and i have he same failos as op, jewish inbred faggot phenotype.
> 
> I aint spending 700k on that i dont even have it, wish the nazis would have gassed our asses.


THE GOAT2X IS BACK LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## Anchor_Ship (Feb 5, 2022)

legend


----------



## Sal123 (Feb 5, 2022)

Hey man, could you privately send me a selfie on snap, I’m not like the others on here


----------



## randomvanish (Feb 5, 2022)

Sal123 said:


> I’m not like the others on here


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Feb 6, 2022)

Sal123 said:


> Hey man, could you privately send me a selfie on snap, I’m not like the others on here


I've had a slight complication with my skull implant surgery with Eppley, it bulges at my temple region due to being too thick. I have some selfies from after the surgery lying down where the bulge isn't as obvious, but lying down is a cope due to neutralizing gravity's effect on soft tissues. If you want you can pm me. I just get bored sending my selfies over and over.


----------



## misha (Feb 11, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I've had a slight complication with my skull implant surgery with Eppley, it bulges at my temple region due to being too thick. I have some selfies from after the surgery lying down where the bulge isn't as obvious, but lying down is a cope due to neutralizing gravity's effect on soft tissues. If you want you can pm me. I just get bored sending my selfies over and over.


Dude, you sound like a pretty smart guy. I'd be interested in your thought process.

Aren't you worried about:
long term effects of general anesthesia on your brain. Do you feel like you function at 100% of baseline?
long term effects of surgeries/ healing (-> not being able to exercise, socialize) on your body

Did you do any research on these aspects beforehand, weighed pros and cons etc, or did you yolo it?


----------



## CosmicMaxxer (Mar 30, 2022)

SendMePicsToRate said:


> You didn't you got doxxed by one of the users there, I recognize the eye area


I never posted post-OBO pics anywhere but here, lookism was already shut down when I posted. Just stfu and stop polluting my thread you miserable troll.


----------



## Deleted member 15569 (Mar 30, 2022)

whats the chance of something going wrong during box osteotomy? i remember reading it being a dangerous surgery with a big chance of something going wrong resulting in blindness or death or something like that.


----------



## Danish_Retard (Mar 30, 2022)

DogPilledAsFuck said:


> whats the chance of something going wrong during box osteotomy? i remember reading it being a dangerous surgery with a big chance of something going wrong resulting in blindness or death or something like that.


you can literally just google stuff like this


----------



## STEVE GAMING (Mar 30, 2022)

Whats your iq?


----------



## Deleted member 15569 (Mar 30, 2022)

Danish_Retard said:


> you can literally just google stuff like this


its a surgery performed on deformed people, i assume its going to have different risk as OP is normal and doing it for aesthetics.


----------



## TheLordMadness (Mar 30, 2022)

@CosmicMaxxer bro i’m a true surgery maxxer not like you but still got 4-5 surgeries, i’m just curios to see your final result. Can u pm me your photos?


----------



## heighmaxxerxd (Mar 30, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> had like a .435 ES ratio before, now about .47. Also believe in having a robust spacious face which looks silly without wide IPD.


bro greycel here could you or anybody help me or explain me how do i get my ratios and what is ideal?


----------



## heighmaxxerxd (Mar 30, 2022)

TheLordMadness said:


> @CosmicMaxxer bro i’m a true surgery maxxer not like you but still got 4-5 surgeries, i’m just curios to see your final result. Can u pm me your photos?


would love to see them aswell but he wants to protect his identity


----------



## Deleted member 18159 (Mar 30, 2022)

Absolute insanity. 66mm ipd wouldn’t even look bad at your facial width. 72 is arguably too wide now.


----------



## DaRealSixpence (Apr 13, 2022)

This guy is a legend.

Here I am nervous about getting orbital implants and a goddamn Bimax + genio.

What a trooper.


----------



## Tallooksmaxxer (Apr 13, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Fully out of pocket, about 55k.


you paid 55k dollars?


----------



## DaRealSixpence (Apr 13, 2022)

Are you actually planning on getting tripod for PFL? I have been told to get it. 
Would love to hear more about it from you.


----------



## deepweb1298 (Jun 10, 2022)

for people on this thread i got sent his photos (not gonna dox him) but legit he looks good, the box isnt as uncanny as i thought but with the exception that the surgeon forwardly projected the orbits maybe a little too much. Cant remember since it was a couple of months ago but honestly one of the best changes ive seen so far


----------



## russiancel (Jun 11, 2022)

how bad you have to look to get OBO?


----------



## HerpDerpson (Jun 11, 2022)

SupremeSubhuman said:


> 66mm ipd wouldn’t even look bad at your facial width. 72 is arguably too wide now.


Ipd by itself is meaningless, you gotta look at esr and mfr.


----------



## Tenshi (Jun 11, 2022)

Can I take a look at your b/a pics as well? You can censor or cut the pics or idk, just genuinely curious on your results


----------



## heighmaxxerxd (Jun 11, 2022)

i will be the next one doing this kind of thread


----------



## epictroll (Jun 11, 2022)

yes you may be chad now but I will drop a LC hard cat and mouse II type-question on you next time you interview and it will be ogre buddy boyo


----------



## epictroll (Jun 11, 2022)

OP do you work for G?

make a g3doc teaching G incels how to looksmax


----------



## Dragon5000 (Jun 12, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> You haven't seen my full face, and the eyes look less short in a non lens distorted pic. Also, my eyes in that after are shit-tier, they don't look like that anymore. But ya, I'm gonna get pfl surgery.


how does pfl surgery work? I didn't know that was possible, because you can't increase the size of your eyeball.


----------



## CristianT (Jun 12, 2022)

he is faaar from chad. High Tier Normie - MAYBE. I am not even sure about it.


epictroll said:


> yes you may be chad now but I will drop a LC hard cat and mouse II type-question on you next time you interview and it will be ogre buddy boyo


----------



## Tallooksmaxxer (Jun 12, 2022)

Dragon5000 said:


> how does pfl surgery work? I didn't know that was possible, because you can't increase the size of your eyeball.


nothing changes with your eyeball.


----------



## Dragon5000 (Jun 12, 2022)

Tallooksmaxxer said:


> nothing changes with your eyeball.



Yeah Iv'e seen that beofre, but I've only seen results on asains. Does it work for other people too?


----------



## Tallooksmaxxer (Jun 12, 2022)

Dragon5000 said:


> Yeah Iv'e seen that beofre, but I've only seen results on asains. Does it work for other people too?


your eye ball is like 24 mm horizontal. average pfl is 11-12 mm. if you dont have %99 tier pfl yes it will work.


----------



## Dragon5000 (Jun 12, 2022)

Tallooksmaxxer said:


> your eye ball is like 24 mm horizontal. average pfl is 11-12 mm. if you dont have %99 tier pfl yes it will work.


wait average pfl is 11-12mm??? that seems way to short. I thought it was around 30mm.


----------



## Tallooksmaxxer (Jun 12, 2022)

Dragon5000 said:


> wait average pfl is 11-12mm??? that seems way to short. I thought it was around 30mm.


i think i am wrong bro xd. i just measured mine and its around 35-40 mm.

i pulled the numbers of the internet.

this one is more accurate probably.


https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-palpebral-fissure-and-interorbital-distance-measurements-according-to_tbl1_235406673


----------



## Dragon5000 (Jun 12, 2022)

Tallooksmaxxer said:


> i think i am wrong bro xd. i just measured mine and its around 35-40 mm.
> 
> i pulled the numbers of the internet.
> 
> ...


Yeah so then how does the pfl surgery work then. lol


----------



## Tallooksmaxxer (Jun 12, 2022)

Dragon5000 said:


> Yeah so then how does the pfl surgery work then. lol


well the eye is round so maybe cantopexy squezes more pfl through a more convex shape?


----------



## Wallenberg (Jun 12, 2022)

So how much did he ascend? From subhuman to chadlite or HTN?


----------



## prettyboycel (Jun 15, 2022)

Why do you get deltoid implant instead of clavicle lengthening?
Most pictures of deltoid implant ive seen look gross and unnatural


----------



## orthochadic (Jun 28, 2022)

@AscendingHero


----------



## Deleted member 18840 (Jun 28, 2022)

Tallooksmaxxer said:


> well the eye is round so maybe cantopexy squezes more pfl through a more convex shape?


Price of this elastic cantho and who does it?


----------



## Deleted member 18840 (Jun 28, 2022)

Tallooksmaxxer said:


> well the eye is round so maybe cantopexy squezes more pfl through a more convex shape?


Price of this el


Wallenberg said:


> So how much did he ascend? From subhuman to chadlite or HTN?


he is ugly im ngl lets stop the mascarade


----------



## Tallooksmaxxer (Jun 28, 2022)

StreegeReturn said:


> Price of this elastic cantho and who does it?


i dont live in us or euroep


----------



## Amnesia (Jun 28, 2022)

Props to OP for going thru all this but also for taking time to share with us

Disappointing to hear you're not a fan of Taban since I have a consultation with him about upper eyelid filler to make my hooding more symmetrical

I was going to talk to him about my lower eyelids as well since I think they are too loose or droopy for ideal aesthetics. But given what OP said I dunno 




I guess for upper eyelid hooding going with fillers is what Taban says he prefers as to fat injection since some of the fat dies, and there are more complications.* OP I read the entire thread so forgive me if I missed it, did u have fat injections done around the eye area at all, and how did that go? *


----------



## Deleted member 18840 (Jun 28, 2022)

Amnesia said:


> Props to OP for going thru all this but also for taking time to share with us
> 
> Disappointing to hear you're not a fan of Taban since I have a consultation with him about upper eyelid filler to make my hooding more symmetrical
> 
> ...


Your best bet for under eyes is to go to taiwan. Once i have enough funds i will go there


----------



## eren1 (Jun 28, 2022)

Wallenberg said:


> So how much did he ascend? From subhuman to chadlite or HTN?


3.5 to 6.75 read the thread


----------



## wollet2 (Jun 28, 2022)

You are the best looksmaxer ever. Luck (=money in this case) is everything as usual but i wanna ask. 

What would u recommend for severe under eye dark discoloration + thin skin. Im white btw but my under eyes are so dark. Nothing seems to work. Are total skin grafts possible or possible in the near future? Burn patients and patients with destroyed faces get them and they look ok so why not


----------



## Deleted member 20273 (Jul 8, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


6.5 PSL is not 90th percentile, much higher.


----------



## optimisticzoomer (Jul 12, 2022)

Either this is you: https://exploreplasticsurgery.com/p...poral-widening-after-orbital-box-osteotomies/

Or you are larping. The CT scan is the exact same with the same implants.









Is this you? Lol


----------



## smvmaxxertilllate (Jul 12, 2022)

Mirin your dedication hard. I also plan to work as SWE at a big company in a few years to afford my surgeries.


----------



## A23ghskung (Jul 12, 2022)

optimisticzoomer said:


> Either this is you: https://exploreplasticsurgery.com/p...poral-widening-after-orbital-box-osteotomies/
> 
> Or you are larping. The CT scan is the exact same with the same implants.
> 
> ...


This is legit OP he isn't larping he mentioned he was Jewish on one of his threads dating one year back, the hair/pheno of the guy in the pic seems to indicate the patient is Jewish confirming this is actually OP, although I'm not sure OP is actually HTN as he claims, looking at the pic


----------



## BugeyeBigNoseCurry (Jul 12, 2022)

A23ghskung said:


> This is legit OP he isn't larping he mentioned he was Jewish on one of his threads dating one year back, the hair/pheno of the guy in the pic seems to indicate the patient is Jewish confirming this is actually OP, although I'm not sure OP is actually HTN as he claims, looking at the pic


Skull looks ltn mtn at best


----------



## A23ghskung (Jul 12, 2022)

BugeyeBigNoseCurry said:


> Skull looks ltn mtn at best


i'd say he's LTN at best. Looking at the CT scan and pics. What a waste of money, I mean he could of went on a nice vacation or bought a nice car


(just making it clear I'm not shitting on OP or his choices.)


----------



## BugeyeBigNoseCurry (Jul 12, 2022)

A23ghskung said:


> i'd say he's LTN at best. Looking at the CT scan and pics. What a waste of money, I mean he could of went on a nice vacation or bought a nice car
> 
> 
> (just making it clear I'm not shitting on OP or his choices.)


Users/mods will attack you now. Jfl @ this Blackpilled forum


----------



## optimisticzoomer (Jul 12, 2022)

A23ghskung said:


> This is legit OP he isn't larping he mentioned he was Jewish on one of his threads dating one year back, the hair/pheno of the guy in the pic seems to indicate the patient is Jewish confirming this is actually OP, although I'm not sure OP is actually HTN as he claims, looking at the pic


Maybe, why would he leave his hair grey like that tho if he's trying to looksmax? And the style too. Looks shit.
However, it says there's only 3 months between the pictures on eppley's post, so maybe he usually dyes his hair, cos in the before picture he has brown hair.

He also looks worse in the after, his his looks wide af


----------



## optimisticzoomer (Jul 12, 2022)

I emailed Dr Steinbacher and he hasn't responded. I hope he hasn't aired me lol


----------



## oldslapcel (Jul 12, 2022)

Soo, now everyone hates Taban. Where the fuck do I fix my recessed under eyes/dark circles/lower eyelid bleph?  Money is not an issue. I just want the best surgeon in the planet whoever it is. A botched eye area is death tier sentence. (im from EU). anyone?


----------



## hypergamy (Jul 23, 2022)

PapiMew said:


> Eppley does a protective canthopexy in conjunction with his saddle implants. It’s just to keep the lower lid tight until you heal.
> 
> I’ve seen how the saddle works, it really raises the lower lid. It won’t create hunter eyes on its own but it will do a lot to change your eyelid level.


I feel like this is a better option the lower eyelid retraction, it never quite looks right. 

Any pics on saddle implants?


----------



## DaRealSixpence (Jul 25, 2022)

I seen this guys picture he looks like shit even after all these surgeries. Looks like a MTN jew.

Either he was utterly subhuman before or he is terrible at choosing surgeries

probably should've just gotten bimax, implants and called it a day.


----------



## Pakicel (Jul 25, 2022)

DaRealSixpence said:


> I seen this guys picture he looks like shit even after all these surgeries. Looks like a MTN jew.
> 
> Either he was utterly subhuman before or he is terrible at choosing surgeries
> 
> probably should've just gotten bimax, implants and called it a day.


That is because surgery doesn't always work.


----------



## HerpDerpson (Jul 25, 2022)

DaRealSixpence said:


> Either he was utterly subhuman


He had an ESR of 0,43 with a small (as can be inferred from getting a skull implant) head. That's pretty bad. Eyes too close together are only acceptable for ogres with large heads. Zeusus has the same ESR, but he's comically masculine, so it works for him.


----------



## DaRealSixpence (Jul 25, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> He had an ESR of 0,43 with a small (as can be inferred from getting a skull implant) head. That's pretty bad. Eyes too close together are only acceptable for ogres with large heads. Zeusus has the same ESR, but he's comically masculine, so it works for him.


I think all these measurements doesn't automatically make someone subhuman. There is something to be said for harmony.

I think all these surgeries on top of each other can do more harm than good.

I think making a few improvements is the best you can do, then try to maximize harmony and appeal.

I saw this guy's photo. His face still has zero appeal.


----------



## Isabella (Jul 26, 2022)

It's quite costly.


----------



## Deleted member 21646 (Aug 25, 2022)

700k just to impress some incels online brutal


----------



## LongForgotten (Aug 28, 2022)

Messaged you on your profile. Would love to get in contact about OBO and would love to pay 20$ for a 10/15 minute call if that's what gets it done.


----------



## NoPainNoChick (Aug 28, 2022)

LongForgotten said:


> Messaged you on your profile. Would love to get in contact about OBO and would love to pay 20$ for a 10/15 minute call if that's what gets it done.


JFL at the 20$ offer while OP is rich as fuck and spent 700k in surgeries alone...


----------



## LongForgotten (Aug 28, 2022)

NoPainNoChick said:


> JFL at the 20$ offer while OP is rich as fuck and spent 700k in surgeries alone...


Tbh.


----------



## wollet2 (Aug 28, 2022)

did op rope where is he


----------



## 190cm90kg (Aug 28, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


you can do every softmax and surgery possible and it'll add 2.5pts best case scenario (unless you were obese with a skin disorder) also 6.5psl is at least 98th percentile


----------



## optimisticzoomer (Aug 30, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> He had an ESR of 0,43 with a small (as can be inferred from getting a skull implant) head. That's pretty bad. Eyes too close together are only acceptable for ogres with large heads. Zeusus has the same ESR, but he's comically masculine, so it works for him.


He said his ipd was 65.5mm before obo, which I doubt


----------



## Blkpill Godfather (Sep 19, 2022)

yea respect for most stuff. but am i the only one thats gonna tell him his eyes look ridiculous? and literally looked better in the before pics?


----------



## randomvanish (Oct 4, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> mfr


what's that?


----------



## russiancel (Oct 4, 2022)

wollet2 said:


> did op rope where is he


he ascended from subhuman to LTN


----------



## MakinMogReturns (Oct 5, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


holy shit I've been caging for the last minute please tell me u did not get a 5 inch LL


----------



## Marco Polo (Oct 5, 2022)

This is documentary material


----------



## HerpDerpson (Oct 5, 2022)

randomvanish said:


> what's that?


Midface ratio = the distance between your pupils divided by the distance from the point in between of your pupils to your mouth.


----------



## Pakicel (Oct 5, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> Midface ratio = the distance between your pupils divided by the distance from the point in between of your pupils to your mouth.


You have a compact midface.


----------



## HerpDerpson (Oct 5, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> You have a compact midface.


What do you mean?


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Oct 5, 2022)

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery​


----------



## caveman (Oct 5, 2022)

did you memorylossmaxx with all that going under for surgeries or are you good?


----------



## krisal (Oct 5, 2022)

Just fucking brutal if you cant slay after all these surgeries


----------



## makeme183 (Oct 6, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I will restart dating in 2 months, expecting much better results obv.


it almost been a year OP , are you getting better results on tinder ? are you larping your age ?

Also,why did you go for lip reduction ? 
I thought plump,fuller lips were considered an attractive trait ? (although thin lips are a high T trait)


----------



## Incel Afterlife (Oct 29, 2022)

Holy motherfucking Christ. We haven't spoken in ages. I hope we can reconnect. I PM'ed you.


----------



## reallyuglyincel1 (Oct 30, 2022)

This guy's larping about his before and after PSL.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 1, 2022)

ovER


----------



## Hankhill2160 (Nov 3, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I can pm you my current results. Am likely gonna get a tripod for pfl increase, along with a few other tweaks in my last surgery.
> 
> You haven't seen my full face, and the eyes look less short in a non lens distorted pic. Also, my eyes in that after are shit-tier, they don't look like that anymore. But ya, I'm gonna get pfl surgery.
> 
> ...


Hey man, all the research you put into this is truly inspiring, and your results are more than motivational. You are what I consider a legend of Looksmaxxing, and I commend you for that.

It would be the utmost privelage if I could ask for some advice and learn what I can from you. My goal is to learn of certain procedures you are versed with and your opinions on certain procedures and opinions on surgeons for procedures you might be familiar with.

I hope you are well and thank you for your time, it is appreciated to say the least.


----------



## Hankhill2160 (Nov 3, 2022)

Acromegaly_Chad said:


> I'm in that server, saw the pics now.
> Yes it's an improvement overall, indeed.
> 
> And damn you have almost the same pheno as me. Confirms my 23andme ancestry results JFL


I am curious, how does one get access to the server?


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

reallyuglyincel1 said:


> This guy's larping about his before and after PSL.


Yes. He looks uncanny af. Zero appeal.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Yes. He looks uncanny af. Zero appeal.


How was his base?

assuming shit since he needed OBO


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> How was his base?


IDK. Didn't see the before. Only the after where he looks uncanny.


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Nov 3, 2022)

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery​


----------



## Gladiator (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> IDK. Didn't see the before. Only the after where he looks uncanny.


Did OP rope or what? Hasn’t posted on a while


----------



## reptiles (Nov 3, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> Ok here is just the eye region. Please don't share or popularize over the net. I will likely delete the link tomorrow. Caveats are described in the link (swollen upper lids with the right one in the pic being worse, co2 laser done recently), so this is hardly representative of a final result, but to spare you the wait:





@Artemis you were doubting me nigger.but some 1 did do this mogger surgery fuck


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Nov 3, 2022)

reptiles said:


> @Artemis you were doubting me nigger.but some 1 did do this mogger surgery fuck


why did this guy get obo man jfl


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

Gladiator said:


> Did OP rope or what? Hasn’t posted on a while


Idk. He did say he would try dating for the first time after all his surgeries. Chances he realized he is doing worse than before.


----------



## reptiles (Nov 3, 2022)

bkr2906 said:


> why did this guy get obo man jfl



As meeks said dont let psl autism be dreams always keep hustling always keep grinding


----------



## reptiles (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Idk. He did say he would try dating for the first time after all his surgeries. Chances he realized he is doing worse than before.




Bro hes doing way better know than before he ascended very hard based of the jaw implant projections


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

bkr2906 said:


> why did this guy get obo man jfl


Mental illness. 

This dude is an example of how not to surgerymax.


----------



## sjaakie (Nov 3, 2022)

Gladiator said:


> Did OP rope or what? Hasn’t posted on a while


someone who spent money to have sex with women will never be saved. wouldnt be surprised


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

reptiles said:


> Bro hes doing way better know than before he ascended very hard based of the jaw implant projections


What projections? Have you even seen his after pics? He looks uncanny af. Women would be scared away if he approached them.


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Mental illness.
> 
> This dude is an example of how not to surgerymax.








imagine getting this kind of surgery just to look like this on the after. cant believe it tbh


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

sjaakie said:


> someone who spent money to have sex with women will never be saved. wouldnt be surprised


I don't think he roped.

But prolly very disappointed by his irl results. Maybe he looked a lot worse before. I just can't see how his current state has any appeal.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

bkr2906 said:


> View attachment 1934166
> 
> imagine getting this kind of surgery just to look like this on the after. cant believe it tbh


I don't think it's the spacing. Something just looks off man.

Though I have only seen a bad pic. Still normie at best even after all those surgeries


----------



## sub5inchcel (Nov 3, 2022)

man spent 100k something imagine still not chadlite bruh htn minimum


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> I don't think it's the spacing. Something just looks off man.
> 
> Though I have only seen a bad pic. Still normie at best even after all those surgeries


brutal


----------



## Gladiator (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Idk. He did say he would try dating for the first time after all his surgeries. Chances he realized he is doing worse than before.


The guy played a huge huge gamble. Imagine if he invested the money or something. 

He spent 0.7million USD to be invisible on Tinder because irl I doubt he has the skills to woo women. Someone who spent this much on these dangerous surgeries is probably extremely non NT and out of touch of real life. 

I hope OP moneymaxxes and earns another 700k but this time spends it on something useful.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

Gladiator said:


> The guy played a huge huge gamble. Imagine if he invested the money or something.
> 
> He spent 0.7million USD to be invisible on Tinder because irl I doubt he has the skills to woo women. Someone who spent this much on these dangerous surgeries is probably extremely non NT and out of touch of real life.
> 
> I hope OP moneymaxxes and earns another 700k but this time spends it on something useful.


Prolly won't though. Will keep on getting surgeries his entire life.


----------



## HerpDerpson (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> What projections? Have you even seen his after pics? He looks uncanny af. Women would be scared away if he approached them.


He was probably a subhuman originally. I would be surprised if he didn't improve (but the starting point was too low). I would guess he went from 2/ to 4/10. Never seen him though.


bkr2906 said:


> why did this guy get obo man jfl


His ESR was low (0.43). Before doesn't look too Cyclops though. Maybe it was giving him long midface? Birdcel has the same esr, but his face is still short, so not necessarily.
His eyes actually look too far apart (to me, at least) in the after. It's probably because the medial canthus is too far away from the nose. Plus the eyes aren't horizontally long enough to cover enough of the eye area.


Gladiator said:


> The guy played a huge huge gamble. Imagine if he invested the money or something


You know how the song goes - can't buy me love. Can't take money to the grave either, gotta do something with them, why not spend it on yourself? It was worse a try, absolutely, we just looking at it in hindsight.



Gladiator said:


> I hope OP moneymaxxes and earns another 700k


He's Jewish.


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Nov 3, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> He was probably a subhuman originally. I would be surprised if he didn't improve (but the starting point was too low). I would guess he went from 2/ to 4/10. Never seen him though.
> 
> His ESR was low (0.43). Before doesn't look too Cyclops though. Maybe it was giving him long midface? Birdcel has the same esr, but his face is still short, so not necessarily.
> His eyes actually look too far apart (to me, at least) in the after. It's probably because the medial canthus is too far away from the nose. Plus the eyes aren't horizontally long enough to cover enough of the eye area.
> ...


0.43 esr is good and masculine, his ipd was good too. his ipd on the after makes him look like a woman and is a huge failo


----------



## Deleted member 1851 (Nov 3, 2022)

bkr2906 said:


> 0.43 esr is good and masculine, his ipd was good too. his ipd on the after makes him look like a woman and is a huge failo


tbh i havent seen his face so i wont give my opinions without doing so.


----------



## Gladiator (Nov 3, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> You know how the song goes - can't buy me love. Can't take money to the grave either, gotta do something with them, why not spend it on yourself? It was worse a try, absolutely, we just looking at it in hindsight.


I saw this thread today only and I immediately caged, didn’t for a second think it was a good idea. But I still didn’t expect the ending to be this brutal.

I think this guy should be an example of being realistic and not falling for the memes. Unfortunately poor guy fell for the memes. I’m not against looksmaxing but this guy was thinking that pumping money and getting more and more risky procedures will make him Chad. It’s like taking a bad painting and trying to fix it by painting over and over it. Your face isn’t a mathetical equation it’s more like a painting.

The money lost isn’t the problem. OP probably would recover it since he looks at least intelligent at his job. But I’m sure that he must have set up gigantic expectations from this whole gruesome journey (thinking about slaying stacies and all) which lasted for years and involved breaking legs twice, going blind for days and what not. The mere idea makes me faint.

I’m wondering if OP will be able to recover from the fact that whatever dreams he had got shattered and he’s at the same level or below than the average person on the forum. How will he cope from now? He may need therapy to function properly. I doubt he can just continue life as usual. He might go insane and that’s why he hasn’t posted anything about his dating experiences. I just hope he’s doing ok.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> He was probably a subhuman originally. I would be surprised if he didn't improve (but the starting point was too low). I would guess he went from 2/ to 4/10. Never seen him though.
> 
> His ESR was low (0.43). Before doesn't look too Cyclops though. Maybe it was giving him long midface? Birdcel has the same esr, but his face is still short, so not necessarily.


Ratios are only really a guide. The absolute IPD matters too. 0.47 ES ratio would still look close set if the IPD is like 55 mm. There are also other things that influence your perceived eye spacing such as the width of your forehead and temples, your eyebrow length and spacing, your nose bridge etc. Changing just the IPD won't really ascend most cyclopcels. You would have to change so many other things on their face for it to look harmonious because they often have narrower skulls, low FWHR, long midface etc. He didn't consider these things deeply and now he looks uncanny. 


HerpDerpson said:


> His eyes actually look too far apart (to me, at least) in the after. It's probably because the medial canthus is too far away from the nose. Plus the eyes aren't horizontally long enough to cover enough of the eye area.


I agree. ESR is fine but ICD has been raped.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

Gladiator said:


> I saw this thread today only and I immediately caged, didn’t for a second think it was a good idea. But I still didn’t expect the ending to be this brutal.
> 
> I think this guy should be an example of being realistic and not falling for the memes. Unfortunately poor guy fell for the memes. I’m not against looksmaxing but this guy was thinking that pumping money and getting more and more risky procedures will make him Chad. It’s like taking a bad painting and trying to fix it by painting over and over it. Your face isn’t a mathetical equation it’s more like a painting.
> 
> ...


Anybody who has spent enough time on here and approaches all this with a realistic mindset would realize that surgery cannot turn you into a chadlite or chad. If he was wise, he would realize this too.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

Gladiator said:


> I saw this thread today only and I immediately caged, didn’t for a second think it was a good idea. But I still didn’t expect the ending to be this brutal.
> 
> I think this guy should be an example of being realistic and not falling for the memes. Unfortunately poor guy fell for the memes. I’m not against looksmaxing but this guy was thinking that pumping money and getting more and more risky procedures will make him Chad. It’s like taking a bad painting and trying to fix it by painting over and over it. Your face isn’t a mathetical equation it’s more like a painting.
> 
> ...


Also, there are people on here who rated him chadlite.

I see this all the time on the forum. People overrate dudes who get surgery and are hesitant to call out fake/uncanny outcomes.


----------



## russiancel (Nov 3, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Also, there are people on here who rated him chadlite.
> 
> I see this all the time on the forum. People overrate dudes who get surgery and are hesitant to call out fake/uncanny outcomes.


this, esp gaia is overrating over and over again since he got multiple surgeries.


----------



## HerpDerpson (Nov 3, 2022)

russiancel said:


> this, esp gaia is overrating over and over again since he got multiple surgeries.


He looks _fine_ though. Like 4.5 PSL (starting from 3). Not like he Bogdanoff'd himself.



Gladiator said:


> But I’m sure that he must have set up gigantic expectations from this whole gruesome journey (thinking about slaying stacies and all) which lasted for years and involved breaking legs twice, going blind for days and what not. The mere idea makes me faint.


You can say that he was waiting to start to live instead of living if you want to sound fancy. 
Alas, if he tried living he'd still get 0 with his looks, but still.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 3, 2022)

HerpDerpson said:


> He looks _fine_ though. Like 4.5 PSL (starting from 3). Not like he Bogdanoff'd himself.


It's an improvement over before but he is still below average SMV wise. Imo, he went from 2-3/10 to 4/10. And his nose looks a bit uncanny but it wasn't good before so you can call it an improvement or at least not worse than before.


----------



## khvirgin (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> What projections? Have you even seen his after pics? He looks uncanny af. Women would be scared away if he approached them.


Where I can find them?


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 4, 2022)

khvirgin said:


> Where I can find them?


IDK. I just saw one.


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 4, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> IDK. Didn't see the before. Only the after where he looks uncanny.


The before was way worse trust me he did ascend


----------



## BugeyeBigNoseCurry (Nov 4, 2022)

I don't know if its true but eyes should be one eye width apart. After looks like hypertelorism
Reference:


----------



## ChristianChad (Nov 4, 2022)

Hankhill2160 said:


> I am curious, how does one get access to the server?


@Acromegaly_Chad I'd like to know aswell


----------



## Peepeepiopoo (Nov 9, 2022)

Link to discord server? Curious and want to see pics


----------



## Zonar (Nov 9, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually





CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


How much did you pay for LL? It's usually expensive if you want to get it done safely.


----------



## Gladiator (Nov 9, 2022)

Zonar said:


> How much did you pay for LL? It's usually expensive if you want to get it done safely.


OP roped, hasn't been seen here since August


----------



## Peepeepiopoo (Nov 9, 2022)

Op fucked up big time he made his eyes too far apart. Around 1.5 eyes apart that's my eye spacing presurgery it looked very disharminous like I had genetic defect or something


----------



## Anchor_Ship (Nov 20, 2022)

Idk how people expect all surgeries to go through well I’m assuming he started off 3/10 and ascended to a least 5/10 he claims 6/10 that is a worth while improvement and especially with the double LL that’s a great improvement and more low inhib than everyone on here. I wish he sent whole face instead of just eye area so ppl can get the whole idea instead of commenting on speculation


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 20, 2022)

Anchor_Ship said:


> Idk how people expect all surgeries to go through well I’m assuming he started off 3/10 and ascended to a least 5/10 he claims 6/10 that is a worth while improvement and especially with the double LL that’s a great improvement and more low inhib than everyone on here. I wish he sent whole face instead of just eye area so ppl can get the whole idea instead of commenting on speculation


He is exaggerating the improvement. And based on what I have seen he isn't even 6/10 or even 5/10. 

More like 4/10 and uncanny looking.


----------



## optimisticzoomer (Nov 20, 2022)

Peepeepiopoo said:


> Op fucked up big time he made his eyes too far apart. Around 1.5 eyes apart that's my eye spacing presurgery it looked very disharminous like I had genetic defect or something


This makes it sound like u got obo


----------



## skinnytwink (Nov 20, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> He is exaggerating the improvement. And based on what I have seen he isn't even 6/10 or even 5/10.
> 
> More like 4/10 and uncanny looking.


that's why too much surgery is never good


----------



## KEy21_ (Nov 20, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> He is exaggerating the improvement. And based on what I have seen he isn't even 6/10 or even 5/10.
> 
> More like 4/10 and uncanny looking.


In my limited time back here; 

I’ve observed that you’re super anti-surgery and defend it with your life no matter what you hear on every post i’ve seen you mention it. 

So what are you really here for? If it doesn’t work?

Genuinely curious. 

Are you just a good samaritan who spends all of your waking hours making sure people don’t alter there face in fear of them experiencing some type of displeasure with the result? 

I don’t get the angle


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 20, 2022)

KEy21_ said:


> In my limited time back here;
> 
> I’ve observed that you’re super anti-surgery and defend it with your life no matter what you hear on every post i’ve seen you mention it.


I wouldn't say I am against surgery. It's just that people on here are too optimistic regarding the kinds of SMV jumps they can make with surgeries.


KEy21_ said:


> So what are you really here for? If it doesn’t work?


It does work. That's why I am considering it. But it comes with risks and it is not gonna turn you into a slayer most of the time.


KEy21_ said:


> Are you just a good samaritan who spends all of your waking hours making sure people don’t alter there face in fear of them experiencing some type of displeasure with the result?


A lot of people here downplay the risk-to-reward ratio for surgeries. I see people planning 5 different surgeries believing that they are guaranteed to jump 2 PSL points or something when chances are they would just look weird afterwards. I think it is important to give users here a reality check so that they don't bog themselves.


----------



## DarkTetrad (Nov 20, 2022)

CosmicMaxxer said:


> I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).
> 
> I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.


Bro wtf u Srs? I want to do LL as well even though I’m 6’ 1” whilst barefoot and want to be 6’4” barefoot and 6’6” with shoes and a slight lift, and then fraud 6’7”.

I’m a bit of a surgery nut myself, I want to do an Lefort 1 and Zygos implants because my entire mid face is recessed.

I also need a Box Osteomy but I probably won’t end up doing it because I’m worried it would weaken the integrity of my skull. The Lefort if my upper jaw falls off that’s replaceable but a new set of eyes isn’t. Besides my eyes aren’t that close set and I don’t think it adds much to attractiveness anyways. FWHR, leanness, and forward growth is far more important.

One thing I want to do, that is very unique, is use LL surgeries but on my hand and fingers to get a bigger hand, I think it would add a lot of attractiveness towards women and overall be more functional in general. Please let me know your thoughts.


----------



## KEy21_ (Nov 20, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> I wouldn't say I am against surgery. It's just that people on here are too optimistic regarding the kinds of SMV jumps they can make with surgeries.
> 
> It does work. That's why I am considering it. But it comes with risks and it is not gonna turn you into a slayer most of the time.
> 
> A lot of people here downplay the risk-to-reward ratio for surgeries. I see people planning 5 different surgeries believing that they are guaranteed to jump 2 PSL points or something when chances are they would just look weird afterwards. I think it is important to give users here a reality check so that they don't bog themselves.



While what some of you’re saying might have some merit to it,

YOU aren’t qualified to be giving anyone a reality check on whether their goals are realistic or not…Or what surgeries result in what, and what surgeries up SMV more than others..

As you haven’t had a single surgery yet..

And haven’t seen enough REAL results yet, because they just aren’t available out there on the surface web…

You have no leg to stand on when you type your opinion one way or another.

This is why people who REALLY surgerymax, worry about the small finite details down to even the material used (As you’ve mentioned before) because they’re REALLY putting it in their face, and are being risk averse.

I’ve noticed that, people who REALLY get stuff done aren’t going in and getting botched because of what people online wrote then they book the surgery next week out of incel rage.

It takes an intricate process (Not necessarily long) But the doctors have shown them results beforehand and they’re picking the ones that they like best and would want to look like, and things are being crafted by measurement based on those goals, and adjusted by the mm according to dimensions of their head and face. It’s down to a science.

There’s not as much subjectivity or botching and freelance eyeing being done on the surgical table as you might thing.

It’s pretty exact. You put these type of customs in the same spots every time surgically, the measurements are done electronically through failure-proof calculating to get the dimensions the same on your subjective face, as a different face with different dimensions. And it’s mostly done intra orally so that there’s limited outside visible alteration that can’t be differentiated from any commonplace trauma people have in adulthood.

The only difference is osteotomies which are STRICTLY done cosmetically. Which are the rarest of surgeries that anyone gets here.

- Even with something like getting double jaw for cosmetic purposes, for example. If someone is operating on you and agreeing to do that in the US, most likely there is a medical justification that directly correlates to the amount of movement and difference it makes in your face.

I.e, there’s no such thing as a perfectly large airway and brutal under eye bags without any room for forward movement which would result in an accompanied cosmetic ricochet.

Most surgeons also operate under the guise that they’d rather the patient be disappointed size-wise then have an uncanny look - Because their business is at stake.

Any requests for extreme measures that can’t be reasoned out through a mental health channel won’t be done as an operation. You can get what you want (To an extent) but there’s already a pre-calculated line that was drawn (That you didn’t know about) That surgeons won’t go past in fear of it having a higher risk of looking out of proportion.

These people aren’t retarded. They have statues
of the human face and head in their office because of how entailed and obsessed with the human body that they are.

You can’t say much to make them perform much better, as you equally can’t get botched because you didn’t mention something. They already _know. _


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 20, 2022)

KEy21_ said:


> While what some of you’re saying might have some merit to it,
> 
> YOU aren’t qualified to be giving anyone a reality check on whether their goals are realistic or not…Or what surgeries result in what, and what surgeries up SMV more than others..
> 
> ...


Ok. All that is fine and good. But just rn, I saw this result posted on here:









Rate this wrap-around jaw + infraorbital-malar implants result


Do you think the result looks good or uncanny?




looksmax.org





IDK if it is just me. But I can't really see how this result boosted his SMV.

And it isn't just this result. It just seems like most of the surgery results posted on here hardly result in an improvement. 

You like many claim to have seen these amazing before and afters during consultations. If the quality of the results being posted publicly is any indication of how often these procedures go well, then I seriously doubt they are as good as people say. What logical reason is there for them to be better than the ones that are available to us? Does the fact that some patients prefer to stay private have any correlation to how well the procedure goes?

The point is. If surgery works as well as you and others here claim, we would see far more good results on PSL forums. But that isn't the case. All I see are maybe a handful of people making some improvements but not actually becoming gl and a far greater number of underwhelming and flat out botched results. I have legit seen people here go down 2 PSL points from supposedly safe surgeries like bimax.


----------



## KEy21_ (Nov 20, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Ok. All that is fine and good. But just rn, I saw this result posted on here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What you have to grasp is that almost literally nobody does before and afters. Almost everyone stays private regardless. That’s just statistics, not even just my opinion.

The ones in the doctors hands are still private ones, all things considered. As they had to consent for them to even be shown in office and only get shown to a small amount of people.

It depends on how you’re judging the pictures.

My argument is that the surgeries usually go extremely well.

This is a different argument then saying the patients “PSL” went up 1-2 points.

That’s not how I judge surgeries. As the surgeon only does what the client pays for. And let’s be real, some ugly motherfuckers need a lot more done then what they get.

A surgery can be a 10/10 result, but not even bring someone up 0.3 PSL.

It has to do with what the persons base is and what their biggest failos are.

Don’t confuse an irredeemably ugly person spending 50k on surgery and not becoming a chad, with plastic surgery being a meme.

One sec i’m gonna check that out then respond.

Imo: That’s an extremely good result. Face is still heavily blocked off, still hasn’t finished swelling so isn’t fully healed, haven’t seen patient in motion before, haven’t seen patient in motion after.

I mean, you’ve gotta have reasonable expectations too going into surgery.

They have to be in line with what’s possible. Or you’re setting yourself up for failure.

Imaginative delusions about results aren’t the surgeons responsibility.

I will say this, though. 

You always see small hints of your former surgery self. Meaning anything that WASNT done beyond the surgery to fix failos you have; are still just as evident. 

So my recommendation is always; If you’re gonna go the surgical route, address everything possible in one surgery that you deem as risk-free. 

Meaning it’s taking you from somewhere in 1-2/10 range beyond 

And NOT taking risks on operating on things that could be considered half decent about yourself 

So realistically; some people with a worse base will end up looking better than those with a decent one.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 20, 2022)

KEy21_ said:


> What you have to grasp is that almost literally nobody does before and afters. Almost everyone stays private regardless. That’s just statistics, not even just my opinion.
> 
> The ones in the doctors hands are still private ones, all things considered. As they had to consent for them to even be shown in office and only get shown to a small amount of people.
> 
> ...


I guess it's a bad pic to judge. Dude is still swollen and like you said we don't have motion before/afters.

But I am talking about surgery in general. I just don't see people making big jumps in SMV very often.

Also, quit the LARP dude. You are not @KEy21. No need to pretend to be some other user to express your viewpoint on surgerymaxxing.


----------



## KEy21_ (Nov 20, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> I guess it's a bad pic to judge. Dude is still swollen and like you said we don't have motion before/afters.
> 
> But I am talking about surgery in general. I just don't see people making big jumps in SMV very often.
> 
> Also, quit the LARP dude. You are not @KEy21. No need to pretend to be some other user to express your viewpoint on surgerymaxxing.


I was super excited before doing mine…Because I knew what difference it could make if it went well, because I had obvious failos, and STILL went conservative with it 

I have zero regrets, as there’s nothing to regret…

A man pays for something he wants and he receives it…Nobody else has to understand it

I was always a bigger critic of myself than others were of me anyway..

Meaning the bar for others to find me adequate was always lower than the bar I set to find myself adequate of being adequate for them…

Mental health…Pure delusion, etc

Surgery ain’t gonna fix everything that’s wrong with said person, that’s for sure…But if the results give them enough will to begin to care, that’s what matters…

And lol @ thinking it’s not me…

Like I said to the last person, just wait for someone else to come along, who sounds more like me than me..

And believe them all you want


----------



## WanderingBurro (Nov 21, 2022)

DarkTetrad said:


> Bro wtf u Srs? I want to do LL as well even though I’m 6’ 1” whilst barefoot and want to be 6’4” barefoot and 6’6” with shoes and a slight lift, and then fraud 6’7”.
> 
> I’m a bit of a surgery nut myself, I want to do an Lefort 1 and Zygos implants because my entire mid face is recessed.
> 
> ...


Your average greycel


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Anchor_Ship said:


> Idk how people expect all surgeries to go through well I’m assuming he started off 3/10 and ascended to a least 5/10 he claims 6/10 that is a worth while improvement and especially with the double LL that’s a great improvement and more low inhib than everyone on here. I wish he sent whole face instead of just eye area so ppl can get the whole idea instead of commenting on speculation


I’ve seen his face

He looks average now- no way he’d get chadlite in the ratings secrion

He was ugly before so good improvement I suppose


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> I guess it's a bad pic to judge. Dude is still swollen and like you said we don't have motion before/afters.
> 
> But I am talking about surgery in general. I just don't see people making big jumps in SMV very often.
> 
> Also, quit the LARP dude. You are not @KEy21. No need to pretend to be some other user to express your viewpoint on surgerymaxxing.


I think people ascending from subhuman to normie is relatively common but ascending from normie to chadlite+ is very very rare

So rare in fact there’s just a handful of cases of it ever happening I’ve seen


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

DoctorLooksmax said:


> I think people ascending from subhuman to normie is relatively common


I don't see such ascensions on here like that very often either. Sometimes it happens. Other times, the surgery makes no difference.

You have to consider that many of the uglier users on here don't have major craniofacial issues but bad phenotype, harmony/ratios, skull shape etc. So surgery isn't really a solution for all ugly people. 


DoctorLooksmax said:


> but ascending from normie to chadlite+ is very very rare


Agreed.


DoctorLooksmax said:


> So rare in fact there’s just a handful of cases of it ever happening I’ve seen


You have to remember that a lot of those cases are frauded with before pics taken in bad conditions while after pics are with better lighting, skin, hair etc. I'd go as far as saying it has never happened on here. You also have to understand that most users are really bad at gauging how much a user increased his SMV. Many think a lot of these bogdanoffmaxxed implant patients are more attractive to women.

The people who became chadlite+ already had the genetics to become gl in the first place and just softmaxxed/pubertymaxxed.


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> I don't see such ascensions on here like that very often either. Sometimes it happens. Other times, the surgery makes no difference.
> 
> You have to consider that many of the uglier users on here don't have major craniofacial issues but bad phenotype, harmony/ratios, skull shape etc. So surgery isn't really a solution for all ugly people.
> 
> ...


Amnesia and salludon perhaps fraud their before and afters a bit - but it’s pretty clear to me that surgerymaxxing did make a massive difference to their looks in a positive way


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

DoctorLooksmax said:


> Amnesia and salludon perhaps fraud their before and afters a bit - but it’s pretty clear to me that surgerymaxxing did make a massive difference to their looks in a positive way


Amnesia didn't really increase the quality of his lays. Even in his before state, he could have gotten the same women with maybe a bit more effort.

Salludon straight up edits his pics with filters and faceapp. Also, his SMV is not as high as we believe. I don't think he could 'slay' purely based on looks in most western countries.


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Amnesia didn't really increase the quality of his lays. Even in his before state, he could have gotten the same women with maybe a bit more effort.
> 
> Salludon straight up edits his pics with filters and faceapp. Also, his SMV is not as high as we believe. I don't think he could 'slay' purely based on looks in most western countries.


Salludon is quiet questionable in terms of frauding etc

But I’m gonna have to strongly disagree with what you said about amnesia, the guy went from an everyday decent looking HTN guy to a literal giga chad (if you ignore his height)


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

DoctorLooksmax said:


> Salludon is quiet questionable in terms of frauding etc
> 
> But I’m gonna have to strongly disagree with what you said about amnesia, the guy went from an everyday decent looking HTN guy to a literal giga chad (if you ignore his height)


In frauded pics, yes. Not a gigachad. A chad.

But IRL, he prolly still looks like a gl dude you see very often albeit with a bit of a plastic look to him. And if you consider his height, he isn't really special.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> In frauded pics, yes. Not a gigachad. A chad.
> 
> But IRL, he prolly still looks like a gl dude you see very often albeit with a bit of a plastic look to him. And if you consider his height, he isn't really special.








if this is a guy u see quite often its over for many 
ive never seen someone like this irl tbh

even if the pic is a bit "frauded"


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> View attachment 1961574
> 
> if this is a guy u see quite often its over for many
> ive never seen someone like this irl tbh
> ...


Dude, I can show you examples of LTNs frauding to that level with the right lighting and angle. 

Truth is, we can't really know for sure until he posts unedited motion videos of him turning his head around. No special lighting or filters or anything of that sort.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Dude, I can show you examples of LTNs frauding to that level with the right lighting and angle.


show

and its super rare to be high tier chad unfrauded, ur literally a top paid male model at that point


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> View attachment 1961574
> 
> if this is a guy u see quite often its over for many
> ive never seen someone like this irl tbh
> ...


And he looks plastic here in case you haven't noticed. People IRL can prolly tell.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> show
> 
> and its super rare to be high tier chad unfrauded, ur literally a top paid male model at that point


Ok. LTN is an exaggeration. But you can make yourself look 1-2 PSL better just with the right angles and lighting.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> And he looks plastic here in case you haven't noticed. People IRL can prolly tell.


i dont see it tbh

he just looks "unreal" or some shit except his uneven eyes


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> In frauded pics, yes. Not a gigachad. A chad.
> 
> But IRL, he prolly still looks like a gl dude you see very often albeit with a bit of a plastic look to him. And if you consider his height, he isn't really special.


The sort of reactions he gets from girls suggest otberwsie

Alternatively perhaps this forum massively overestimates how good looking you need to be to have girls simp for you, have casual sex with you, call you good looking, approach you etc

These things happened even to me tbh- Albeit not ver frequently and I’m only a bit above average. Actually even when I was a teenager and I was dead average I was approached a few times


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

DoctorLooksmax said:


> The sort of reactions he gets from girls suggest otberwsie
> 
> Alternatively perhaps this forum massively overestimates how good looking you need to be to have girls simp for you, have casual sex with you, call you good looking, approach you etc
> 
> These things happened even to me tbh- Albeit not ver frequently and I’m only a bit above average. Actually even when I was a teenager and I was dead average I was approached a few times


I know. You have to be genuinely ugly for that not to happen. 

Which is why going from incel tier to normie or htn isn't going from invisible to invisible like most here cope. But shit quality of life to actually getting something in the dating market.


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> I know. You have to be genuinely ugly for that not to happen.
> 
> Which is why going from incel tier to normie or htn isn't going from invisible to invisible like most here cope. But shit quality of life to actually getting something in the dating market.


A lot of people say stuff like the average guy gets nothing - what they really mean is the average guy has to put in quite a lot of effort to get results and they just want it to be easy for them like it is for chad.

Or they slayed some LTB and now want to feel as though that makes them a HTN cos ‘Muh 90% of men get nothing’


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

DoctorLooksmax said:


> A lot of people say stuff like the average guy gets nothing - what they really mean is the average guy has to put in quite a lot of effort to get results and they just want it to be easy for them like it is for chad.


Nah. A solid normie can still get ugly women very easily. They have landwhales and shit as orbiters or ethnic beckies. 2-2.5 PSL is where you are truly 'incel' and even then you are not getting insulted for your looks or anything like that. You have to be 1-2 PSL for you to be ugly enough to stand out negative.


DoctorLooksmax said:


> Or they slayed some LTB and now want to feel as though that makes them a HTN cos ‘Muh 90% of men get nothing’


HTNs are almost never incel if they have other things going for them. If you are solid HTN, you mog 95% of the site.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> View attachment 1961574
> 
> if this is a guy u see quite often its over for many
> ive never seen someone like this irl tbh
> ...





DoctorLooksmax said:


> Salludon is quiet questionable in terms of frauding etc
> 
> But I’m gonna have to strongly disagree with what you said about amnesia, the guy went from an everyday decent looking HTN guy to a literal giga chad (if you ignore his height)





Pakicel said:


> In frauded pics, yes. Not a gigachad. A chad.
> 
> But IRL, he prolly still looks like a gl dude you see very often albeit with a bit of a plastic look to him. And if you consider his height, he isn't really special.


"turned into a literal gigachad! "






Literally just a white htn.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> "turned into a literal gigachad! "
> 
> View attachment 1961649
> 
> ...


Also this:






There are others too. 

People forget that users fraud their pics a lot. Even with candids, you can cherrypick ones that present you in a more positive light.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Also this:
> 
> View attachment 1961671
> 
> ...


the thing is tho u can find shit pics of everyone and ppl compare themselves to frauded model pics that are edited with professional lighting and they wear makeup too


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Also this:
> 
> View attachment 1961671
> 
> ...







this guy is just a regular htn too?

he could never grow a huge social media following and have girls worldwide simping over him then or ?

stop comparing ppl frauding and candids it’s retarded cuz then 6 psl barely exists


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Nah. A solid normie can still get ugly women very easily. They have landwhales and shit as orbiters or ethnic beckies. 2-2.5 PSL is where you are truly 'incel' and even then you are not getting insulted for your looks or anything like that. You have to be 1-2 PSL for you to be ugly enough to stand out negative.
> 
> HTNs are almost never incel if they have other things going for them. If you are solid HTN, you mog 95% of the site.


yeah what I meant is a solid normie would have to put it quite a lot of effort to get say MTBs whereas as a chadlite + could get them effortlessly.

If he wants effortless sex hell have to go after ugly/fat girls, so i guess his choice either put in effort and get some girl hes attracted to or just easy sex with uglies


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

DoctorLooksmax said:


> yeah what I meant is a solid normie would have to put it quite a lot of effort to get say MTBs whereas as a chadlite + could get them effortlessly.
> 
> If he wants effortless sex hell have to go after ugly/fat girls, so i guess his choice either put in effort and get some girl hes attracted to or just easy sex with uglies


Also, btw ugly women by this sites standards is average IRL. By landwhale, I don't mean literally obese. Just somewhat chubby and not exactly 'attractive' by this sites standards. Also, includes 30+ women, who aren't in their prime but not exactly 'old' either. 

Normie level dudes would never touch actual ugly women. And by that I mean, ones that are literally obese or have something wrong with them facially.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> View attachment 1961695
> 
> this guy is just a regular htn too?
> 
> ...


But we have seen vinnie in motion and he has literally amassed a following of JBs based on his looks. 

We can't honestly rate amnesia unless we have seen enough of him unfrauded in motion. Remember, he refused to join a discord video call, which sort of hints that he isn't as gl as he portrays himself on the site. Actually, even he rated himself at 5.5 PSL. He just posts frauded pics on here sometimes for validation.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> But we have seen vinnie in motion and he has literally amassed a following of JBs based on his looks.
> 
> We can't honestly rate amnesia unless we have seen enough of him unfrauded in motion. Remember, he refused to join a discord video call, which sort of hints that he isn't as gl as he portrays himself on the site. Actually, even he rated himself at 5.5 PSL. He just posts frauded pics on here sometimes for validation.


true kinda but tiktokers and the ppl that are “6 psl” on social media use makeup for smoother skin and skin smoothening filters etc


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> true kinda but tiktokers and the ppl that are “6 psl” on social media use makeup for smoother skin and skin smoothening filters etc


But imo, even 4.5-5 PSL IRL is very good. You will not be incel at all. 

At that level, you mog 99% of the people on here. Possibly be amongst the best looking posters.


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> true kinda but tiktokers and the ppl that are “6 psl” on social media use makeup for smoother skin and skin smoothening filters etc


6-7 PSL IRL is godly tbh. At that level, you are being offered modelling contracts in clothing stores or something.


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> 6-7 PSL IRL is godly tbh. At that level, you are being offered modelling contracts in clothing stores or something.


so 6 psl is like 1/100000 ? rating system is completely flawed then


----------



## xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Nov 21, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> so 6 psl is like 1/100000 ? rating system is completely flawed then


that’s literally retarded asf then and would imply that there are literally three chads in a city like stockholm


----------



## DoctorLooksmax (Nov 21, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Also, btw ugly women by this sites standards is average IRL. By landwhale, I don't mean literally obese. Just somewhat chubby and not exactly 'attractive' by this sites standards. Also, includes 30+ women, who aren't in their prime but not exactly 'old' either.
> 
> Normie level dudes would never touch actual ugly women. And by that I mean, ones that are literally obese or have something wrong with them facially.


Most of this site is pretty young though- so when we say average, we mean more like the average for 16-25 yo girls , ofc the population average is way worse than this average


----------



## WBC323 (Nov 21, 2022)

Can you fix whole development with surgery? Or some cases had too much damage by not eating or doing anything, so they can't be saved? How much looks and "end product" is genetics and how much is development? How much does it affect bones and how different would be twin with worst developments and diet compared to best possible? Anyone at least here knows?


----------



## tents (Nov 22, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Nah. A solid normie can still get ugly women very easily. They have landwhales and shit as orbiters or ethnic beckies. 2-2.5 PSL is where you are truly 'incel' and even then you are not getting insulted for your looks or anything like that. You have to be 1-2 PSL for you to be ugly enough to stand out negative.
> 
> HTNs are almost never incel if they have other things going for them. If you are solid HTN, you mog 95% of the site.


I get bullied for looks by people on the street. I'm not LARPing. Even when I had normal short hair


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 22, 2022)

tents said:


> I get bullied for looks by people on the street. I'm not LARPing. Even when I had normal short hair
> View attachment 1962896


IDK man. You don't look that ugly to me.

You are salvageable.


----------



## tents (Nov 22, 2022)

WBC323 said:


> Can you fix whole development with surgery? Or some cases had too much damage by not eating or doing anything, so they can't be saved? How much looks and "end product" is genetics and how much is development? How much does it affect bones and how different would be twin with worst developments and diet compared to best possible? Anyone at least here knows?


IMO diet is cope and it's all about muscle tone and tongue posture.


----------



## HerpDerpson (Nov 22, 2022)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:


> this guy is just a regular htn too?


Amnesia looks better (in photos, at least).


----------



## russiancel (Nov 22, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> IDK man. You don't look that ugly to me.
> 
> You are salvageable.


hes fakecel


----------



## LooksOverAll (Nov 22, 2022)

russiancel said:


> hes fakecel


No he's not. He has an underbite that makes him look goofy and people make fun of him.


tents said:


> I get bullied for looks by people on the street. I'm not LARPing. Even when I had normal short hair
> View attachment 1962896


same...


----------



## Pakicel (Nov 22, 2022)

LooksOverAll said:


> No he's not. He has an underbite that makes him look goofy and people make fun of him.


Uh. So he has a deformity then.


----------



## LooksOverAll (Nov 22, 2022)

Pakicel said:


> Uh. So he has a deformity then.


ye basically


----------



## WBC323 (Nov 23, 2022)

tents said:


> I get bullied for looks by people on the street. I'm not LARPing. Even when I had normal short hair
> View attachment 1962896


You look like a pussy not ugly


----------



## WBC323 (Nov 23, 2022)

Also does facepulling work? And were there some way to obtain simple version of it so you can facepull while you sleep bro


----------



## spacio (Nov 30, 2022)

Anyone else gotten this surgery since or has surgeon recommendations besides steinbacher who doesn't reply to emails?


----------



## WBC323 (Nov 30, 2022)

Also, how dangerous are these procedures


----------

