# just got surgery done, ama



## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

i look like i got hit with a buss, and also eppley tweaked my cheek implants pretty hard prior to surgery, they were low to begin with as they were 2.5mms, after the operation he said he left one side of the cheek alone lol while the other side was done.


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## middayshowers (Aug 16, 2019)

where are the pics


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## Framletgod (Aug 16, 2019)

middayshowers said:


> where are the pics


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## Aesthetic (Aug 16, 2019)

Eppley probably made u a assymetrycel


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Aesthetic said:


> Eppley probably made u a assymetrycel










yea lol one side of the cheek does look more popped out lol

hopefully once the swelling gets better it wont look that assymtric


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## Deleted member 1849 (Aug 16, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> i look like i got hit with a buss, and also eppley tweaked my cheek implants pretty hard prior to surgery, they were low to begin with as they were 2.5mms, after the operation he said he left one side of the cheek alone lol while the other side was done.


whyd he leave on side alone?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Don't Forget to mew said:


> whyd he leave on side alone?


idk why tbh, he was like i already have good cheekbones etc, i couldnt really hear the exact reason why because my memory was still hazy and i was sleepy af


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## 6ft4 (Aug 16, 2019)




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## Deleted member 1849 (Aug 16, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> idk why tbh, he was like i already have good cheekbones etc, i couldnt really hear the exact reason why because my memory was still hazy and i was sleepy af


oof, He's a smart guy, he did it for a good reason prob


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## Deleted member 39 (Aug 16, 2019)

Does it hurt?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Don't Forget to mew said:


> oof, He's a smart guy, he did it for a good reason prob


ya he said my swelling would be worse since im ethnik lol, and that i have thicker skin


i wish i got buccal fat remova+perioral lipo done


my maxilla looks recessed af atm prolly cus the swelling


Curious0 said:


> Does it hurt?


yea lol it hurt pretty bad , but i took pain killers


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## Deleted member 39 (Aug 16, 2019)

How tall are you?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Curious0 said:


> How tall are you?


5'11 lol


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## Deleted member 1849 (Aug 16, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> ya he said my swelling would be worse since im ethnik lol, and that i have thicker skin
> 
> 
> i wish i got buccal fat remova+perioral lipo done
> ...


whats perioral lipo


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Don't Forget to mew said:


> whats perioral lipo



its located below the buccal fat pad, getting that done +buccal fat lipo is pretty good for facial thinning if i got that done i think my swelling woudlnt be that bad.


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## Deleted member 1849 (Aug 16, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> its located below the buccal fat pad, getting that done +buccal fat lipo is pretty good for facial thinning if i got that done i think my swelling woudlnt be that bad.


who knows, the swelling will go away right?


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## Asnep (Aug 16, 2019)

middayshowers said:


> where are the pics


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## Deleted member 2527 (Aug 16, 2019)

did he tell you how long it would be until you can go outside and people wont stare at you?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

facemaxxed said:


> did he tell you how long it would be until you can go outside and people wont stare at you?



lol he said 3 weeks


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## Dude420 (Aug 16, 2019)

How many PSL points you feel you are going to gain after all the swelling is gone?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Dude420 said:


> I many PSL points you feel you are going to gain after all the swelling is gone?


cant say tbh lol, ill have to wait and see.


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## AspiringChad (Aug 16, 2019)

Full face pics?


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## Loko88 (Aug 16, 2019)

Any before pics? Entire face would be prefered


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

Loko88 said:


> Any before pics? Entire face would be prefered


after swelling dies down, ill post full face pics.


ill become a meme if i post them rn


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## Loko88 (Aug 16, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> after swelling dies down, ill post full face pics.
> 
> 
> ill become a meme if i post them rn


*Before* pics dude


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## Nobody96 (Aug 16, 2019)

@Redrighthand hope that he improved


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## LDNPari (Aug 16, 2019)

how is the jaw implant looking


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## crosshold (Aug 16, 2019)

congrats man


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## kota (Aug 16, 2019)

Well done man. Sounds a bit weird that he left one side out, I assume you must have asymmetry before if he did that but shouldn't that have showed up in the ct scans and been part of the plan to begin with if so? Hopefully he made the right decision.


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

kota said:


> Well done man. Sounds a bit weird that he left one side out, I assume you must have asymmetry before if he did that but shouldn't that have showed up in the ct scans and been part of the plan to begin with if so? Hopefully he made the right decision.



Thx man 

It didn’t show up in the scans lol, it was prolly slight assymtry. Yea I’ll see how I look in a few weeks et, I can always use fillers for my cheeks if need be I think


Kinda sucks that I didn’t get my full money’s worth tho lol


LDNPari said:


> how is the jaw implant looking


Swollen, will let u know in 10 days


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## LDNPari (Aug 16, 2019)

You should get a refund from him for the work he didn't do


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 16, 2019)

LDNPari said:


> You should get a refund from him for the work he didn't do


Lol it doesn’t work like that,


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## norwoodreaper (Aug 17, 2019)

gratz man hope it turns out good


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## InZayn (Aug 17, 2019)

Dude420 said:


> How many PSL points you feel you are going to gain after all the swelling is gone?



-1


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## ibetucnt (Aug 17, 2019)

what the surgery u had ?

rim implants + jaw implants ?


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## shimada (Aug 17, 2019)

Crazy shit


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 17, 2019)

ibetucnt said:


> what the surgery u had ?
> 
> rim implants + jaw implants ?



wrap around jaw implants, and bilateral infraorbital malar implants.

I didnt get too much cheekbone projection since i apparently already have good cheekbones, its just that i have thick skin/fat outlayering it. thts wht eppley told me


shimada said:


> Crazy shit


yea after i was done, and i looked in the mirror. I was like "wth am i doing"


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## BigBoy (Aug 17, 2019)

Damn bro, your eye area already looks different


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## shimada (Aug 17, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> wrap around jaw implants, and bilateral infraorbital malar implants.
> 
> I didnt get too much cheekbone projection since i apparently already have good cheekbones, its just that i have thick skin/fat outlayering it. thts wht eppley told me
> 
> yea after i was done, and i looked in the mirror. I was like "wth am i doing"



RIP thick skin. Means less definition everywhere and it's why you'll look higher BF


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## dodt (Aug 17, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> ya he said my swelling would be worse since im *ethnik *lol


Fuckin brutal 

How much do they cost together and separately?


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## samm735 (Aug 17, 2019)

good luck, hopefully the results are close to what you want man


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 17, 2019)

dodt said:


> Fuckin brutal
> 
> How much do they cost together and separately?



both 15k seperately, together there 27k.

its worth it tho, eppley in my opinion is alot better then yaremchuck and prolly the best at doing custom implants.


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## medialcanthuscel (Aug 17, 2019)

I hope that now u have a top tier orbital vector


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## Deleted member 2527 (Aug 17, 2019)

medialcanthuscel said:


> I hope that now u have a top tier orbital vector



He PM'd me pics I can confirm he has already ascended in his eye area


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 17, 2019)

shimada said:


> RIP thick skin. Means less definition everywhere and it's why you'll look higher BF



fckkk, thick skin=death sentence.

hoping once i eventually get buccal+perioral liposuction and some kybella injections to areas of my face it will balance it out.

such is life as an ethnik


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## LDNPari (Aug 17, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> both 15k seperately, together there 27k.
> 
> its worth it tho, eppley in my opinion is alot better then yaremchuck and prolly the best at doing custom implants.



why do you think he's better than Yaremchuk?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 17, 2019)

LDNPari said:


> why do you think he's better than Yaremchuk?



ill type something up later when i have time, but theres alot of bad reviews about him on realself.com, his rating isnt that great. hes also pretty conservative with his implants and they dont give the same results as eppleys.

I think Eppley is more redpilled overall as to what looks good on you.


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## LDNPari (Aug 17, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> ill type something up later when i have time, but theres alot of bad reviews about him on realself.com, his rating isnt that great. hes also pretty conservative with his implants and they dont give the same results as eppleys.
> 
> I think Eppley is more redpilled overall as to what looks good on you.



Yaremchuk's old results look really good, I know he used to handcarve stock medpor implants before 3D customization was available so his aesthetic eye must have been good before, but yeah he's got some pretty bad reviews now. The only hesitation I have with going with Eppley is results like this







like idk how you can fuck it up that bad. Hopefully he just did what the patient asked him and this wasn't the design of Eppley himself, because if so I'd really doubt his aesthetic eye.


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 17, 2019)

LDNPari said:


> Yaremchuk's old results look really good, I know he used to handcarve stock medpor implants before 3D customization was available so his aesthetic eye must have been good before, but yeah he's got some pretty bad reviews now. The only hesitation I have with going with Eppley is results like this
> 
> View attachment 98993
> 
> ...



that patient was probably the type of ones that refused to listen to surgeons advice about adjusting implants prior to surgery, he also didnt do proper research in regards to what surgeries he really needed.

He was screwed from the start due to the long midface imo, he should have just gotten that kpop triangular chin and a lip lift.

if you have a long midface, implants are a really bad idea. It wasnt eppleys fault in regards to that procedure


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## Deleted member 685 (Aug 17, 2019)

LDNPari said:


> Yaremchuk's old results look really good, I know he used to handcarve stock medpor implants before 3D customization was available so his aesthetic eye must have been good before, but yeah he's got some pretty bad reviews now. The only hesitation I have with going with Eppley is results like this
> 
> View attachment 98993
> 
> ...


Yikes, now his head looks elongated af.


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 17, 2019)

Did you even consult with anyone else?


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 17, 2019)

justanothergymcell said:


> Did you even consult with anyone else?


you mean other surgeons? no not really.


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 17, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> you mean other surgeons? no not really.


Lol good luck I guess.


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## Salludon (Aug 18, 2019)

Congrats OP. I hope you get the results you desire. I need cheek implants as well, that is the only thing i’m lacking.


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## HailToTheKing (Aug 18, 2019)

congratu fucking lations bro, you got the most useless surgery in the world.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

Congrats on getting the surgery. Are you saying that Yaremchuk is too conservative based on my surgery results? LOL.

BTW, to his credit, Dr. Y did tell me that I had relatively thick tissues and that the results of bone structure-altering procedures (e.g., implants) probably wouldn't be as noticeable in my face as they'd be on someone with thinner tissues.

Also, keep in mind that Dr. Y actually gave me more augmentation overall (close to 6 mm's on the right side, I believe) than Saiyan, whose implants gave him 4 mm of augmentation on each side. It just goes to show you how much of a difference soft tissue characteristics make.

Still, part of me wants to get in touch with Eppley and ask him if he'd consider doing a revision with bigger, more noticeable implants, and if he thinks I'd benefit aesthetically...


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## Deleted member 1862 (Aug 18, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> you mean other surgeons? no not really.



lmao



ZUZZCEL said:


> that patient was probably the type of ones that refused to listen to surgeons advice about adjusting implants prior to surgery, he also didnt do proper research in regards to what surgeries he really needed.
> 
> He was screwed from the start due to the long midface imo, he should have just gotten that kpop triangular chin and a lip lift.
> 
> if you have a long midface, implants are a really bad idea. It wasnt eppleys fault in regards to that procedure



Not even gonna explain why the first comment is retarded. You're right that it wasn't necessarily eppley's fault though.

The patient seems to have asked for an implant when his chin height was already okay. This made his mandible/chin way too long. What this dude needs is jaw surgery. His skin around the jaw area is not taut because he lacks anterior projection. After that, he'd probably require some soft tissue procedures to lean out his face, & to lose weight. THEN he could consider modest jaw angle augmentation if he wanted a really angular look.

Tldr: Too much chin height now. If he'd had a shorter chin/ mandible to begin with this result would've looked okay FROM THE FRONT. He needs ortho, implants are cope for this dude.


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## Saiyan (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Congrats on getting the surgery. Are you saying that Yaremchuk is too conservative based on my surgery results? LOL.
> 
> BTW, to his credit, Dr. Y did tell me that I had relatively thick tissues and that the results of bone structure-altering procedures (e.g., implants) probably wouldn't be as noticeable in my face as they'd be on someone with thinner tissues.
> 
> ...



My implants were “maximum 3mm”, in reality probably 2mm. You just won’t ever look good with implants if you have even slightly thicker tissues.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

Saiyan said:


> My implants were “maximum 3mm”, in reality probably 2mm. You just won’t ever look good with implants if you have even slightly thicker tissues.



@Saiyan Yeah, it sucks. Although I wouldn't say that I "won't ever look good with the implants" since my results still conferred a definite overall improvement to my looks (IMO) by giving me some much-needed midface projection, especially considering how flat my midface was prior to the surgery. I also have a pretty nice ogee curve now, and the definition from the implants actually is somewhat noticeable after I have lost water weight from running outside in a humid climate. However, you're right that it will never look as good as your result. 

BTW, didn't you say you were getting modeling jobs now? @Saiyan


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## Deleted member 2527 (Aug 18, 2019)

i


Saiyan said:


> My implants were “maximum 3mm”, in reality probably 2mm. You just won’t ever look good with implants if you have even slightly thicker tissues.


in after @Saiyan

could you post some frontal pics showing the zygos from that angle without frauding?

It was hard to see the results in most of the pics you already posted as they only showed one side or were taken from an angle.

blank out your eyes if you want to keep some anonymity


Also do you know Eppley is aware that you have massively increased the popularity of this implants among the looksmax community?

Im having the same one done in about 5 weeks time with a paranasal/premaxillary component.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

facemaxxed said:


> i
> 
> in after @Saiyan
> 
> ...



@facemaxxed Damn, I wish it had occurred to me to ask my surgeon about getting a paranasal/premaxillary component to my implants. I could've basically frauded having an LF3-like result. Looks like I fucked up all around.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Congrats on getting the surgery. Are you saying that Yaremchuk is too conservative based on my surgery results? LOL.
> 
> BTW, to his credit, Dr. Y did tell me that I had relatively thick tissues and that the results of bone structure-altering procedures (e.g., implants) probably wouldn't be as noticeable in my face as they'd be on someone with thinner tissues.
> 
> ...



did you use medpor or silicone?

@Saiyan 
you too


facemaxxed said:


> i
> 
> in after @Saiyan
> 
> ...



can you pm me cost?


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

@crosshold Silicone, but I was given the option of Medpor or silicone.


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> @Saiyan Yeah, it sucks. Although I wouldn't say that I "won't ever look good with the implants" since my results still conferred a definite overall improvement to my looks (IMO) by giving me some much-needed midface projection, especially considering how flat my midface was prior to the surgery. I also have a pretty nice ogee curve now, and the definition from the implants actually is somewhat noticeable after I have lost water weight from running outside in a humid climate. However, you're right that it will never look as good as your result.
> 
> BTW, didn't you say you were getting modeling jobs now? @Saiyan


Bro, I have read your novels on lookism. You need to fix your eye and get the delusions of slaying out of your head. Get lower eyelid retraction and forever leave these forums.

Don't go to nightclubs and find something else to do with your life. If you really insist though, move to Asia. You will have a better quality of life (considering freindships and slaying) than any amount of silicone in your face will provide you in the west.

Cheers friend.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> @crosshold Silicone, but I was given the option of Medpor or silicone.



what do you think about the supposed chance of silicone "shifting" position? and what was your thought process on choosing silicone? i know eppley says he doesnt like using medpor but like for me, if i get implants im never taking those bitches out and im gonna get it right the first time


justanothergymcell said:


> Bro, I have read your novels on lookism. You need to fix your eye and get the delusions of slaying out of your head. Get lower eyelid retraction and forever leave these forums.
> 
> Don't go to nightclubs and find something else to do with your life. If you really insist though, move to Asia. You will have a better quality of life (considering freindships and slaying) than any amount of silicone in your face will provide you in the west.
> 
> Cheers friend.



is the west just that bad for that lol? or is he white or something


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 18, 2019)

crosshold said:


> what do you think about the supposed chance of silicone "shifting" position? and what was your thought process on choosing silicone? i know eppley says he doesnt like using medpor but like for me, if i get implants im never taking those bitches out and im gonna get it right the first time
> 
> 
> is the west just that bad for that lol? or is he white or something


If silicone is attached with screws, they should not shift much, if at all. Both silicone and medpor encapsulate with surrounding tissue, but medpor moreso since it is pourous unlike silicone.

Yes, he is white. I have seen his pics and he will never slay in the west. No amount of additional surgeries will change that.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

justanothergymcell said:


> If silicone is attached with screws, they should not shift much, if at all. Both silicone and medpor encapsulate with surrounding tissue, but medpor moreso since it is pourous unlike silicone.
> 
> Yes, he is white. I have seen his pics and he will never slay in the west. No amount of additional surgeries will change that.



are there any POSITIVES for medpor though? stability im assuming? all i ever hear is the one negative being that it has tissue ingrowth making it hard to remove

also ive heard surgeons dont really use screws often for silicone. do you usually have to ask for it or does dr Y and eppley do it automatically?


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 18, 2019)

crosshold said:


> are there any POSITIVES for medpor though? stability im assuming? all i ever hear is the one negative being that it has tissue ingrowth making it hard to remove
> 
> also ive heard surgeons dont really use screws often for silicone. do you usually have to ask for it or does dr Y and eppley do it automatically?


The tissue ingrowth (encapsulation) can actually be seen as a positive for medpor, though the adverse affect is that it does pose a challenge to remove as you stated.

Both Eppley and Y will use titanium screws by default. This is standard to prevent shifting. If a surgeon uses silicone without screws, they aren't doing it properly.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

justanothergymcell said:


> The tissue ingrowth (encapsulation) can actually be seen as a positive for medpor, though the adverse affect is that it does pose a challenge to remove as you stated.
> 
> Both Eppley and Y will use titanium screws by default. This is standard to prevent shifting. If a surgeon uses silicone without screws, they aren't doing it properly.



what about "feel" of the implants? does one feel more like bone than the other? thanks for answering my questions though man, i really appreciate it


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

justanothergymcell said:


> Bro, I have read your novels on lookism. You need to fix your eye and get the delusions of slaying out of your head. Get lower eyelid retraction and forever leave these forums.
> 
> Don't go to nightclubs and find something else to do with your life. If you really insist though, move to Asia. You will have a better quality of life (considering freindships and slaying) than any amount of silicone in your face will provide you in the west.
> 
> Cheers friend.



Why are you so convinced that I will never be able to get any ONS's/hookups in the West? Am I really that bad looking? If so, what is the primary issue that is holding me back from being able to get even one ONS per month (I.e., not slaying, but just the occasional ONS) with a girl at a club/bar? It must be pretty bad if you're telling me to stay out of nightclubs altogether. Looking for constructive feedback here, even if the flaws that are holding me back truly are unfixable. @justanothergymcell


crosshold said:


> what do you think about the supposed chance of silicone "shifting" position? and what was your thought process on choosing silicone? i know eppley says he doesnt like using medpor but like for me, if i get implants im never taking those bitches out and im gonna get it right the first time
> 
> 
> is the west just that bad for that lol? or is he white or something



Dr. Y actually suggested silicone for me, just in case I'd like to have the implants removed at some point. I don't think there's much of a chance of them shifting since they're screwed in to the bone.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Why are you so convinced that I will never be able to get any ONS's/hookups in the West? Am I really that bad looking? If so, what is the primary issue that is holding me back from being able to get even one ONS per month (I.e., not slaying, but just the occasional ONS) with a girl at a club/bar? It must be pretty bad if you're telling me to stay out of nightclubs altogether. Looking for constructive feedback here, even if the flaws that are holding me back truly are unfixable. @justanothergymcell
> 
> 
> Dr. Y actually suggested silicone for me, just in case I'd like to have the implants removed at some point. I don't think there's much of a chance of them shifting since they're screwed in to the bone.


thanks for the response. do you have any preference between dr y or eppley for custom wraparound jaw/undereye implants? price difference if you got a consult at both?

if you want you can dm me pics and i can see what i would suggest to improve on


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

crosshold said:


> thanks for the response. do you have any preference between dr y or eppley for custom wraparound jaw/undereye implants? price difference if you got a consult at both?
> 
> if you want you can dm me pics and i can see what i would suggest to improve on



Honestly, I'm not sure who the superior surgeon is between Dr. Y and Dr. E. I had considered going with Dr. E, but what turned me off was the number of patients who ended up with seemingly "uncanny" results. However, it seems like Dr. E might be more willing to design/place implants in a manner that might yield more dramatic results. I forgot the specific price differences between the two surgeons, but I think that Dr. Y was a few thousand dollars more expensive than Dr. E. However, that was a few years ago, so I would definitely get current price quotes from both surgeons to know for sure.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure who the superior surgeon is between Dr. Y and Dr. E. I had considered going with Dr. E, but what turned me off was the number of patients who ended up with seemingly "uncanny" results. However, it seems like Dr. E might be more willing to design/place implants in a manner that might yield more dramatic results. I forgot the specific price differences between the two surgeons, but I think that Dr. Y was a few thousand dollars more expensive than Dr. E. However, that was a few years ago, so I would definitely get current price quotes from both surgeons to know for sure.



thanks again dude, really good info


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

crosshold said:


> thanks again dude, really good info



NP, good luck with whichever surgeon you choose.


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Why are you so convinced that I will never be able to get any ONS's/hookups in the West? Am I really that bad looking? If so, what is the primary issue that is holding me back from being able to get even one ONS per month (I.e., not slaying, but just the occasional ONS) with a girl at a club/bar? It must be pretty bad if you're telling me to stay out of nightclubs altogether. Looking for constructive feedback here, even if the flaws that are holding me back truly are unfixable. @justanothergymcell
> 
> 
> Dr. Y actually suggested silicone for me, just in case I'd like to have the implants removed at some point. I don't think there's much of a chance of them shifting since they're screwed in to the bone.


The primary issue is that you have lived the first 30 years of your life without having the validation, confidence, and social skills required to have hookups. Contrary to popular belief on these forums, some amount of finesse and experience is required in this arena and these are skills that true chads have honed and perfected since they were 14 years old.

The seconday issue is your age itself of 30.

The third issue is that even after your existing surgery, which I believe was a good result, and even if you fix your eye, you will still lack the natural harmony and good lucks that guys like Saiyan and Amnesia used surgeries to make minor tweaks to. They didn't try to completelty reinvent their face and their life.

At your age, find a nice career oritented girl that wasn't a complete hoe during her youth or move to Asia and slay away. Literally the cost you spent at Dr Y and other expenses for that surgery could have bought you at least a year of bliss in Asia.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

justanothergymcell said:


> The primary issue is that you have lived the first 30 years of your life without having the validation, confidence, and social skills required to have hookups. Contrary to popular belief on these forums, some amount of finesse and experience is required in this arena and these are skills that true chads have honed and perfected since they were 14 years old.
> 
> The seconday issue is your age itself of 30.
> 
> ...



I appreciate the honest feedback. The problem with the move-to-Asia recommendation is that I'm just not interested in Asian girls. Also, I will be finishing grad school this year and will be starting a career in a fairly lucrative field that isn't really internationally "portable" in the sense that you can simply move to another country and obtain the same job.

The issue with your suggestion to just find a girl to settle down with is that I'm simply not interested in having LTRs, period, and this preference was most likely ingrained by the same psychological/environmental factors that have resulted in me simply not having the confidence or general social skills to be a natural slayer (I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point, BTW).

In general, I have always been the kind of guy who prefers to live a mostly solitary lifestyle, and yet I have never been interested in living the typical "NEET" life (I.e., I like to go to the gym, visit clubs/bars and nice restaurants, exercise outside, travel, and just be "out and about" in general). I hate just sitting around and doing nothing, and yet I'm not a particularly social person... so my lifestyle preferences and habits are sort of at odds with the fucked-up psychological state of being I have grown into, if that makes sense.

So basically, with my lifestyle and social preferences, this is the situation I'm in: even if I WASN'T specifically interested in hooking up with girls at clubs/bars, the fact that I don't ever want to be in a relationship means, ironically enough, that club/bar hookups or escortceling are basically my only other two options for female sexual engagement. You see the dilemma here?

In response to what you said about how I still won't be that good-looking even after I get surgery to completely overhaul my eye area, are there any specific traits or elements you can pinpoint that would still be holding me back? Or am I basically asking questions regarding the psychological nuances of attraction that researchers haven't been able to shed light on yet? 

In other words, is it something as obvious as the ratios/proportions of certain facial features being slightly "off" enough to make it obvious that I'm not super-attractive, even though the individual deficiencies on their own are seemingly minor? Or is there a single glaring facial feature that (even after eye surgery) will prevent me from being GL, and which also happens to not be fixable via surgery?

Finally -- is the issue with me being over 30 based on me looking too old to look "normal" in a nightclub setting, or is the issue moreso related to the fact that at my age (and with me starting a white-collar career within the next year), it's just not really socially congruent to spend Friday/Saturday nights at clubs and bars anymore when my 30-plus contemporaries are starting families, focusing on their careers, focused on engaging in more "adult" indulgences that involve spending time with family, etc.?

Last question -- do you seriously think that even after eye surgery (as well as wraparound jaw implant surgery to lower my gonial angles) I won't be able to get ANY ONS's, ever? Am I seriously just so unattractive that I'm simply not ever going to be in that demographic, even if just occasionally? I mean, am I going to always be so bad-looking that by simply stepping foot into a large nightclub, I'll look so out of place that I'd make women feel uncomfortable?

Sorry for all the questions; I just like to get honest, blunt opinions from as many redpilled males as possible, especially those who are willing to provide objective feedback as opposed to mindless trolling.

Thanks


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Congrats on getting the surgery. Are you saying that Yaremchuk is too conservative based on my surgery results? LOL.
> 
> BTW, to his credit, Dr. Y did tell me that I had relatively thick tissues and that the results of bone structure-altering procedures (e.g., implants) probably wouldn't be as noticeable in my face as they'd be on someone with thinner tissues.
> 
> ...



Nah not on your results lol, I know someone else that had a wrap around and it didnt turn out how it was supposed to. Hes also just not that knoeldge on where to place the implants in my opinion. If you read his reviews on realself, he did make alot of ppl suicidal due to misposition of implants. I did send him a couple of emails and he seemed pretty narcy like alot more then eppley so I just decided to go with Eppley.



Also for revision, do you have to pay for the entire thing again or do you get some type of discount when getting the implant revised?


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> I appreciate the honest feedback. The problem with the move-to-Asia recommendation is that I'm just not interested in Asian girls. Also, I will be finishing grad school this year and will be starting a career in a fairly lucrative field that isn't really internationally "portable" in the sense that you can simply move to another country and obtain the same job.
> 
> The issue with your suggestion to just find a girl to settle down with is that I'm simply not interested in having LTRs, period, and this preference was most likely ingrained by the same psychological/environmental factors that have resulted in me simply not having the confidence or general social skills to be a natural slayer (I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point, BTW).
> 
> ...




to the OP's first point, i think you can LEARN how to be chad but it IS hard. basically learning PUA without all the cringey bullshit

as for your age, you're only as old as you look

lastly, i think it is possible to "look harmonious". harmony is very physical thing, its not some mystical thing that cant be recreated. is it hard to achieve if youre coming from a nonharmonious place? sure but its not impossible. just temper your expectations and really get your surgeries down and youll be fine


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Why are you so convinced that I will never be able to get any ONS's/hookups in the West? Am I really that bad looking? If so, what is the primary issue that is holding me back from being able to get even one ONS per month (I.e., not slaying, but just the occasional ONS) with a girl at a club/bar? It must be pretty bad if you're telling me to stay out of nightclubs altogether. Looking for constructive feedback here, even if the flaws that are holding me back truly are unfixable. @justanothergymcell
> 
> 
> Dr. Y actually suggested silicone for me, just in case I'd like to have the implants removed at some point. I don't think there's much of a chance of them shifting since they're screwed in to the bone.


also nah I would say your pretty good looking, if you blurred out your eye area and the rest of your face is visible, I would assume your a chadlite/slayer seriously. 

Your eye area surgeries should be life changing just by how much they hinder your appearence when everything else looks good aside from collagen maybe.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> Nah not on your results lol, I know someone else that had a wrap around and it didnt turn out how it was supposed to. Hes also just not that knoeldge on where to place the implants in my opinion. If you read his reviews on realself, he did make alot of ppl suicidal due to misposition of implants. I did send him a couple of emails and he seemed pretty narcy like alot more then eppley so I just decided to go with Eppley.
> 
> 
> 
> Also for revision, do you have to pay for the entire thing again or do you get some type of discount when getting the implant revised?



Do you have any photos of the guy you know who had the bad wraparound implant result? Would be curious to see how it looks if you don't mind PMing me a photo or too.

Also, I'm not sure how much a revision would cost. If I get it done with Eppley (assuming I do it at all), I figure the cost will be the same as getting it all done again for the first time since I'd be a new patient of his. Dr. Y might offer a discount but I haven't asked yet.


crosshold said:


> to the OP's first point, i think you can LEARN how to be chad but it IS hard. basically learning PUA without all the cringey bullshit
> 
> as for your age, you're only as old as you look
> 
> lastly, i think it is possible to "look harmonious". harmony is very physical thing, its not some mystical thing that cant be recreated. is it hard to achieve if youre coming from a nonharmonious place? sure but its not impossible. just temper your expectations and really get your surgeries down and youll be fine



I appreciate the support. I think my problem is that in a comprehensive sense, my overall look just has something... "off" about it that makes it seem very difficult if not impossible to imagine what the really good-looking version of myself would look like.


ZUZZCEL said:


> also nah I would say your pretty good looking, if you blurred out your eye area and the rest of your face is visible, I would assume your a chadlite/slayer seriously.
> 
> Your eye area surgeries should be life changing just by how much they hinder your appearence when everything else looks good aside from collagen maybe.



Thanks. I have been using Retin-A since last July but my skin still kind of looks like shit, so I guess I need to step up my game and start using a dermaroller and get Fraxel laser treatments. I also started injecting HGH a couple months ago but IDK if it will ever make a noticeable difference in terms of skin quality.


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Do you have any photos of the guy you know who had the bad wraparound implant result? Would be curious to see how it looks if you don't mind PMing me a photo or too.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure how much a revision would cost. If I get it done with Eppley (assuming I do it at all), I figure the cost will be the same as getting it all done again for the first time since I'd be a new patient of his. Dr. Y might offer a discount but I haven't asked yet.



oh seriously? you have to pay for it all over again? damn that sucks, so If I wanted another 1-2mm chin projection or jaw angles, I have to pay 15k to do that?

and Ill try to find those pics, I have to get remember my password to my realself account lol, lost it.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> oh seriously? you have to pay for it all over again? damn that sucks, so If I wanted another 1-2mm chin projection or jaw angles, I have to pay 15k to do that?
> 
> and Ill try to find those pics, I have to get remember my password to my realself account lol, lost it.



TBH I'm not sure if Eppley would charge the full price all over again. You could ask him but he might think you're one of the insane patients who wants a revision less than a week after surgery, LOL.


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> TBH I'm not sure if Eppley would charge the full price all over again. You could ask him but he might think you're one of the insane patients who wants a revision less than a week after surgery, LOL.



yea I should wait, I have several questions I would like to ask him regarding other procedures so Ill probably book a consult (60 Minutes) for 200 bucks so I can get all my questions answered. Im just worried about "offending" him by asking a simple question relating to the removal of my implants as that would possibly get him irritated so I have to be careful with phrasing my words.

Ill pm you pics about how my wrap around implant turns out over the course as the swelling dies down.


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## SurgerySoon (Aug 18, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> yea I should wait, I have several questions I would like to ask him regarding other procedures so Ill probably book a consult (60 Minutes) for 200 bucks so I can get all my questions answered. Im just worried about "offending" him by asking a simple question relating to the removal of my implants as that would possibly get him irritated so I have to be careful with phrasing my words.
> 
> Ill pm you pics about how my wrap around implant turns out over the course as the swelling dies down.



Thanks, I hope it turns out well. What other procedures are you looking at getting done?

BTW, do you remember the username of the guy on Realself who had the bad wraparound implant with Dr. Y? Maybe I can look up his profile if so. What was bad about how it looked?


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## justanothergymcell (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> I appreciate the honest feedback. The problem with the move-to-Asia recommendation is that I'm just not interested in Asian girls. Also, I will be finishing grad school this year and will be starting a career in a fairly lucrative field that isn't really internationally "portable" in the sense that you can simply move to another country and obtain the same job.
> 
> The issue with your suggestion to just find a girl to settle down with is that I'm simply not interested in having LTRs, period, and this preference was most likely ingrained by the same psychological/environmental factors that have resulted in me simply not having the confidence or general social skills to be a natural slayer (I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point, BTW).
> 
> ...


I understand your dilema, but let me ask you these questions:

1. Have you ever been in a serious, loving relationship where you have cohabited?
2. Have you ever escortcelled?
3. Have you ever had a ONS?

In other words, do you really actually know what you want or are you still in some discovery phase based upon observed assumptions of what other lifestyle possibilities exist?

As far as your attractiveness limitations, I think you are already well apprised of my thoughts since your self questioning is exactly what I believe and continue to question myself. Your single glaring feature now is the one eye and your ceiling is limited by many nuanced factors that you seem to be aware of.

As far as your age, yes, I also think your questioning demonstrates you also understand that element as well. I think both factors, percieved age and social acceptance, are equally a hindrance.

I think you could definitely still have a ONS, but again, the more limiting factor will be your social skills. I don't think you will be able to just post pictures on Tinder and have a chick agree to come over immediately without even meeting, but feel free to explore that avenue if you wish.

If it helps, I am actually older than you and have had more surgeries, but I can answer yes to all 3 questions above. And guess what - I could still answer yes before I had even a single surgery. And also guess what - I wouldn't be able to answer yes until my very late 20s. And, when I finally could answer yes, I was a NW3, PSL 4 5'9 manlet. I am getting surgery for myself and I honestly have no idea what my long term goal is, but whatever it is, looking better will help tremendously for whatever I decide. And it certainly won't involve many ONS or anything primal like that, because honestly, having a loving relationship was the best out of all three - by far. I have aspirations of going back to Asia and finding my 'waifu', but we shall see.

Good luck man, hit me up via PM if you like so we don't overtake this thread (unless you feel it benefits all).


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Thanks, I hope it turns out well. What other procedures are you looking at getting done?
> 
> BTW, do you remember the username of the guy on Realself who had the bad wraparound implant with Dr. Y? Maybe I can look up his profile if so. What was bad about how it looked?



I think I know who your talking about but I cant remember the name, its been like 6 months since I looked into his patients/his results. 

I came to the conclusion that that Yaremchuk is said to be conservative in the amount of facial changes he gives, he likes very natural results. Eppley would probably have gone even further (if the patient wanted it) and gone full slayer mode on the guy but doesnt go "overboard" that would make you look like a cartoon. 

I do think if you had your midface implant by Eppley it would look better but I wouldnt consider revision until you get your surgeries with taban, you can always book a consult and ask w.e questions. 2mms would make a huge difference imo. Its something to consider after your surgeries with Taban though.


At the moment, Im intrested in Bilateral Buccal Lipectomies and Perioral Mound Liposuction would be in the range of $4,900.00 - $5,700.00 for now. as that would make my cheeks look more prominent. Another Goal of mine is to improve my bite slightly with Invislign which would slightly help my chin projection.


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## itsOVER (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Why are you so convinced that I will never be able to get any ONS's/hookups in the West? Am I really that bad looking? If so, what is the primary issue that is holding me back from being able to get even one ONS per month (I.e., not slaying, but just the occasional ONS) with a girl at a club/bar? It must be pretty bad if you're telling me to stay out of nightclubs altogether. Looking for constructive feedback here, even if the flaws that are holding me back truly are unfixable. @justanothergymcell



Let's be quite clear here: a different girl every month (12 a year) is 'slayer' tier in any country, and would put you squarely in the top 5% of men. Muh Chad banging a new girl every night simply doesn't exist - the average number of sexual partners a man has in his *lifetime* is 11.7: https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/results-of-uk-sex-survey-published/. Even that number is probably inflated (foids reported their lifetime as 7.7, and while that's likely an underestimate, it's not mathematically possible for men and women to have a different average total partner count. Given men are prone to overestimates, and women to underestimates, you could probably clock the real figure at around 9 partners in an average lifetime).

So no, you won't be banging a new girl every month.


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## crosshold (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Do you have any photos of the guy you know who had the bad wraparound implant result? Would be curious to see how it looks if you don't mind PMing me a photo or too.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure how much a revision would cost. If I get it done with Eppley (assuming I do it at all), I figure the cost will be the same as getting it all done again for the first time since I'd be a new patient of his. Dr. Y might offer a discount but I haven't asked yet.
> 
> ...



again if youre open to it, i can take a look at your pics. i can send you mine also if that would make you feel safer


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## LDNPari (Aug 18, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> Why are you so convinced that I will never be able to get any ONS's/hookups in the West? Am I really that bad looking? If so, what is the primary issue that is holding me back from being able to get even one ONS per month (I.e., not slaying, but just the occasional ONS) with a girl at a club/bar? It must be pretty bad if you're telling me to stay out of nightclubs altogether. Looking for constructive feedback here, even if the flaws that are holding me back truly are unfixable. @justanothergymcell
> 
> 
> Dr. Y actually suggested silicone for me, just in case I'd like to have the implants removed at some point. I don't think there's much of a chance of them shifting since they're screwed in to the bone.



Pics of face? What surgeries did you get done with Y?


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## Kade (Aug 21, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> that patient was probably the type of ones that refused to listen to surgeons advice about adjusting implants prior to surgery, he also didnt do proper research in regards to what surgeries he really needed.
> 
> He was screwed from the start due to the long midface imo, he should have just gotten that kpop triangular chin and a lip lift.
> 
> if you have a long midface, implants are a really bad idea. It wasnt eppleys fault in regards to that procedure


If you have a long midface, what is a good idea? (besides rope obv) I have a fairly long midface but was considering infraorbital malar implants. willing to PM pics


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## ZUZZCEL (Aug 21, 2019)

Kade said:


> If you have a long midface, what is a good idea? (besides rope obv) I have a fairly long midface but was considering infraorbital malar implants. willing to PM pics



you cant fix long midface without cutting bone


go ahead and pm me pics, ill respond tomm


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## Kade (Aug 21, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> you cant fix long midface without cutting bone
> 
> 
> go ahead and pm me pics, ill respond tomm


I can’t seem to PM you. I’m assuming it’s because I have a low post count but not sure how many messages/posts I need to have access to that


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## SurgerySoon (Sep 2, 2019)

justanothergymcell said:


> I understand your dilema, but let me ask you these questions:
> 
> 1. Have you ever been in a serious, loving relationship where you have cohabited?
> 2. Have you ever escortcelled?
> ...



@justanothergymcell Sorry for taking so long to respond; I had meant to type up a response sooner but got kind of busy with other things. The answer to all three of your questions is "no." However, even though I have never been in a BF/GF relationship, it doesn't feel like I "missed out" in that regard, because I simply don't have any interest in being in one of those relationships in the first place. I know it sounds like it would be unfulfilling to most other guys, but in light of the extent of interactions I want with girls, "the one and done" nature of ONS's comes as close as possible to accommodating what I want (even if it's still not the ideal lifestyle to have). 

To respond to your second point -- what I find both amusing and disheartening is the fact that for so many other guys, evaluating their looks and suggesting improvements can be as simple as looking at their photos and saying, "Great base, just fix X, Y, and Z features and you'll ascend, definite chad potential, good luck brah!"

... But on the other hand, for me, most people look at my photos and say, "Well, the only thing that's really 'off' is your eye area... but even after you get your eye area overhauled, I still can't imagine you being all that good-looking," and when I follow-up with the question of WHAT ELSE I should improve and/or alter to become more attractive, nobody can pin-point anything. It's like I'm the victim of some weird curse that prevents me from ever being able to become truly GL and which also makes it impossible for apparently to identify the specific physical facial traits that are holding me back. I mean, seriously -- how can it be so instantaneously obvious to others as to why someone's not particularly attractive, and yet be impossible at the same time for someone to improve whatever it is that's holding them back?

Anyways, to respond to what you said about the age issue -- I'm guessing I clearly look my age (31+)? Is that an issue because being 30+ is generally considered to be socially unacceptable in nightclub/bar settings, or is it more about actually looking too old as opposed to the actual age number itself? In other words, if I was "only" 25-26 but still looked exactly the same, would you say the same thing about me being likely to run into issues with attracting women due to my (perceived, in this case) age? 

If I begin an intense anti-aging regimen including tretinoin (which I've already been using for almost a year), dermaneedling, red light therapy, peptides (HGH, GHK-Cu, epithalon, etc.), Fraxel laser treatments, and whatever the hell else is out there that has the potential to make someone either look younger or at least not visibly age as rapidly, do you think there's a possibility I could get through the rest of my 30's looking not much older than I look now (or potentially even look a bit younger)? This is assuming that I don't *already* look too old for what I want. 

BTW, this is kind of a random aside, but to respond to the suggestions to just go "slay in Asia," I have to ask -- what is it about Asian girls that supposedly guarantees they'll be attracted to me? Do they just have much lower standards than white girls in the West? Why is it that an Asian girl of average attractiveness would find me attractive but not a white girl of average attractiveness?

(BTW -- I know that you didn't want to take up anymore space in this thread to talk about all this stuff, but since the thread itself has been dead for a few weeks, I figured it wouldn't really hurt at this point)


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## Elgoblino (Sep 2, 2019)

any more pics yet?


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## SurgerySoon (Sep 7, 2019)

How's the swelling looking?


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## ZUZZCEL (Sep 7, 2019)

SurgerySoon said:


> How's the swelling looking?





Elgoblino said:


> any more pics yet?



flared up the past 2 days since i binged,

ill post pics tomm


before and afters


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## fOreVER (Sep 7, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> flared up the past 2 days since i binged,
> 
> ill post pics tomm
> 
> ...


Does ccw rotation fix long midface?


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## SurgerySoon (Sep 7, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> flared up the past 2 days since i binged,
> 
> ill post pics tomm
> 
> ...



Thanks, looking forward to seeing them; hope healing is going well. 

@justanothergymcell Did you see my latest novella I posted in this thread the other day? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather respond privately and not take up space in this thread


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## Elgoblino (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> flared up the past 2 days since i binged,
> 
> ill post pics tomm
> 
> ...


where dem pics at boyo


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## ZUZZCEL (Sep 14, 2019)

Elgoblino said:


> where dem pics at boyo









posted it before a ton of times lol, but ill post it here since this is the og thread


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## Elgoblino (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> View attachment 112683
> 
> 
> 
> posted it before a ton of times lol, but ill post it here since this is the og thread


How much did you pay for that result?


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## crosshold (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> View attachment 112683
> 
> 
> 
> posted it before a ton of times lol, but ill post it here since this is the og thread


the jaw looks great man


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## ZUZZCEL (Sep 14, 2019)

Elgoblino said:


> How much did you pay for that result?



doesnt matter since moneys not an issue for me



but to answer ur question 25k

theres still swelling so the final result isnt clear yet, im higher bf in the after pic


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## Deleted member 3043 (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> View attachment 112683
> 
> 
> 
> posted it before a ton of times lol, but ill post it here since this is the og thread



why your nose is better after ? which surgeries have you done ?


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## crosshold (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> doesnt matter since moneys not an issue for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can you post the ct scan with the implants?


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## ZUZZCEL (Sep 14, 2019)

crosshold said:


> can you post the ct scan with the implants?










cheek implants were adjusted to 2mm or 1.5 i believe


jaw implants were adjusted to 2mm on oneside via width and none on the other. everything else was the same


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## crosshold (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> View attachment 112700
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks man

is there anything you would do differently now if you could?

also its weird how he opted for reductions considering the whole "eppley make caricatures" stigma people spew


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## Deleted member 3043 (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> View attachment 112700
> 
> 
> 
> ...



are they supposed to last till death ? can you do fighting sport etc, punch and get punched with your cheek and jaw implant or it's over ?


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## ZUZZCEL (Sep 14, 2019)

crosshold said:


> thanks man
> 
> is there anything you would do differently now if you could?
> 
> also its weird how he opted for reductions considering the whole "eppley make caricatures" stigma people spew



Yea, I would have probably had 3 mm more vertically to my chin and like 2mm more horizantly to my chin as well, but meh its w.e. Maybe in the future ill get it revised. My prioritys atm are a rhino and buccal+perioral fat removal


streege said:


> are they supposed to last till death ? can you do fighting sport etc, punch and get punched with your cheek and jaw implant or it's over ?



thats why ppl praise medphor and titaninium, there not as easily damaged as silicone. I think you should be fine but who knows lol


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## crosshold (Sep 14, 2019)

ZUZZCEL said:


> Yea, I would have probably had 3 mm more vertically to my chin and like 2mm more horizantly to my chin as well, but meh its w.e. Maybe in the future ill get it revised. My prioritys atm are a rhino and buccal+perioral fat removal
> 
> 
> thats why ppl praise medphor and titaninium, there not as easily damaged as silicone. I think you should be fine but who knows lol


well what you have rn looks pretty damn natural tbh

your before state was pretty fucking ogre tier ngl so congrats for the looksmaxx


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