500 test is vaulted

[saff]

no reason to start this high as a first cycle, especially if you aromatize heavily. 12-15 weeks then pct isn't optimal either, testosterone cypionate/enanthate esters take ~5 weeks to even reach stable blood serum concentration. ideally you get bloodwork pre-cycle to assess your conversion rates to free t and e2, this will help you form a protocol for solid gains without the need for aromatase inhibitors. start at 280-350mg/week, if you notice estrogen sides just increase pin frequency. unless you're planning on inpregnating someone dont even bother with pct, you can cruise at these doses or drop to trt (health phase) when the gains start to slow down, then plan your next blast. No, you wont go infertile or have to pin forever. i've seen guys run grams of gear for decades and their nutsack drops right back down after a proper hcg, hmg, and nolvadex protocol.

-saff

 

[aids]

JFL @ recommending HMG over recombinant FSH.
JFL @ your slop thread.
JFL @ being incapable of managing E2 on-cycle.
JFL @ thinking anyone actually unironically thinks 12-15 weeks is a good cycle length.

 

[aids]

no reason to start this high as a first cycle, especially if you aromatize heavily. 12-15 weeks then pct isn't optimal either, testosterone cypionate/enanthate esters take ~5 weeks to even reach stable blood serum concentration. ideally you get bloodwork pre-cycle to assess your conversion rates to free t and e2, this will help you form a protocol for solid gains without the need for aromatase inhibitors. start at 280-350mg/week, if you notice estrogen sides just increase pin frequency. unless you're planning on inpregnating someone dont even bother with pct, you can cruise at these doses or drop to trt (health phase) when the gains start to slow down, then plan your next blast. No, you wont go infertile or have to pin forever. i've seen guys run grams of gear for decades and their nutsack drops right back down after a proper hcg, hmg, and nolvadex protocol.

-saff

Another RETARDED take.
If you have at all researched assisted reproductive technologies, i.e., HCG, HMG, etc., then you would know that children that are born as a result of ART are at higher risk of cardiometabolic disease, there is also literature on IVF causing a lower IQ in children born from it.

FOR ANYONE READING, FREEZE YOUR SPERM BEFORE YOUR FIRST CYCLE.

Now leave this forum you pseudointellectual for you do not contribute.

 

[saff]

JFL @ recommending HMG over recombinant FSH.
JFL @ your slop thread.
JFL @ being incapable of managing E2 on-cycle.
JFL @ thinking anyone actually unironically thinks 12-15 weeks is a good cycle length.

not you again, epitome of insufferable

 

[aids]

not you again, epitome of insufferable

I don't even know who you are, but it's hilarious you have a chip on your shoulder because I've evidently debunked shit you've said previously.
Feel free to explain to me how I'm wrong with any of my points (you can't, because you don't research the shit you say, and you just say arbitrary shit).

 

[insignia_]

FOR ANYONE READING, FREEZE YOUR SPERM BEFORE YOUR FIRST CYCLE

Is my freezer enough

 

[Le fort]

FOR ANYONE READING, FREEZE YOUR SPERM BEFORE YOUR FIRST CYCLE.

I did this last week I had no idea other people do this, is it true that you are more likely to have a girl from gear also?

The documented effects on sperm post cycle is difficult to find.

I am starting my first cycle this week.

 

[BR32]

I started 300 and titrated up to 500.

Now gonna run 500 test and 500 EQ going into summer.

Then imma toss in the var for 6 weeks

20 week cycle prolly

blood have been good and ancillaries are good

@aids should I run EQ or primo

only concern about primo is the hair

 

[aids]

I did this last week I had no idea other people do this

I am starting my first cycle this week.

Mogs. I'm making a quick thread on it right now.

I started 300 and titrated up to 500.

Now gonna run 500 test and 500 EQ going into summer.

Then imma toss in the var for 6 weeks

20 week cycle prolly

blood have been good and ancillaries are good

@aids should I run EQ or primo

only concern about primo is the hair

Why run EQ or primo at all?

 

[aids]

I started 300 and titrated up to 500.

Now gonna run 500 test and 500 EQ going into summer.

Then imma toss in the var for 6 weeks

20 week cycle prolly

blood have been good and ancillaries are good

@aids should I run EQ or primo

only concern about primo is the hair

Primo is very hair safe, but just take RU-58841 or at least have it on hand anyway.

 

[insignia_]

I started 300 and titrated up to 500.

Now gonna run 500 test and 500 EQ going into summer.

Then imma toss in the var for 6 weeks

20 week cycle prolly

blood have been good and ancillaries are good

@aids should I run EQ or primo

only concern about primo is the hair

Mirin

 

[BR32]

Mogs. I'm making a quick thread on it right now.


Why run EQ or primo at all?

I want an additional anabolic and to dry out a bit.

I'm leaning primo as I have a jano tested source and its dryer than EQ

 

[BR32]

Primo is very hair safe, but just take RU-58841 or at least have it on hand anyway.

That was what I thought.

Def would keep RU-58841 on hand

 

[saff]

Another RETARDED take.
If you have at all researched assisted reproductive technologies, i.e., HCG, HMG, etc., then you would know that children that are born as a result of ART are at higher risk of cardiometabolic disease, there is also literature on IVF causing a lower IQ in children born from it.

FOR ANYONE READING, FREEZE YOUR SPERM BEFORE YOUR FIRST CYCLE.

Now leave this forum you pseudointellectual for you do not contribute.

"No significant difference in the cumulative incidence of CVD was noted between the groups"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30291022/

"Evaluation of full scale IQ and all domains of intelligence in preschool and primary school children revealed that no significant differences exist between ART and NC children."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37608302/

I didn't even mention artificial insemination in this thread but feel free to be retarded, there is zero strong literature that proves past anabolic steroid use negatively affects offspring when the male regains fertility.

 

[2026ceI]

If you have at all researched assisted reproductive technologies, i.e., HCG, HMG, etc., then you would know that children that are born as a result of ART are at higher risk of cardiometabolic disease

show one study proving this

hcg monotherapy isnt even an assisted reproductive technology, art refers to procedures that involve laboratory handling of both eggs and sperm

stop spreading nonsense, and it is ironic u are calling him a pseudo-intellectual

 

[aids]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30291022/

Cardiovascular and cardiometabolic disease are NOT the same you retard. I am referencing things like higher fasted blood glucose which is PROVEN to be a thing.
DNR at your shit attempt to debunk me. I didn't say cardiovascular, did I?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37608302/

I didn't even mention artificial insemination in this thread but feel free to be retarded, there is zero strong literature that proves past anabolic steroid use negatively affects offspring when the male regains fertility.

I'm going to actually read and interpret this literature (as I already am), but if you are going to selectively read/cherry pick results when this is the first line of the results within the abstract:
"Meta-analysis showed that verbal intelligence score in IVF toddlers is significantly lower than NC toddlers (p = 0.02)"
Where p = 0.02 implies statistical significance, then you are a giga-retard.

JFL at your shitty attempts to try and refute my claims solely because you hate me and not because you care for actually perpetuating positive discourse on the forum you fucking IDIOT

 

[2026ceI]

I started 300 and titrated up to 500.

Now gonna run 500 test and 500 EQ going into summer.

Then imma toss in the var for 6 weeks

20 week cycle prolly

blood have been good and ancillaries are good

@aids should I run EQ or primo

only concern about primo is the hair

dont start 1:1 test to eq ratio, u will probably nuke ur e2

 

[aids]

show one study proving this

hcg monotherapy isnt even an assisted reproductive technology, art refers to procedures that involve laboratory handling of both eggs and sperm

stop spreading nonsense, and it is ironic u are calling him a pseudo-intellectual

JFL, I absolutely despise new users like you that come on here, recite ChatGPT and force me to refute your claims because you are otherwise providing improper information.

ART describes IVF AND men's fertility treatment.

 

[BR32]

dont start 1:1 test to eq ratio, u will probably nuke ur e2

1.5-1 better it really depends on individual aromatization

 

[saff]

Cardiovascular and cardiometabolic disease are NOT the same you retard. I am referencing things like higher fasted blood glucose which is PROVEN to be a thing.
DNR at your shit attempt to debunk me. I didn't say cardiovascular, did I?


I'm going to actually read and interpret this literature (as I already am), but if you are going to selectively read/cherry pick results when this is the first line of the results within the abstract:
"Meta-analysis showed that verbal intelligence score in IVF toddlers is significantly lower than NC toddlers (p = 0.02)"
Where p = 0.02 implies statistical significance, then you are a giga-retard.

JFL at your shitty attempts to try and refute my claims solely because you hate me and not because you care for actually perpetuating positive discourse on the forum you fucking IDIOT

"Meta-analyses of studies on young adolescents revealed that ART young adolescents scored higher academically than their NC counterparts, including on mathematics (p < 0.00001) and reading or language (p < 0.00001)."

read the full article

 

[lurkerbeserker]

Jfl a not having 1500 test naturally

 

[saff]

JFL, I absolutely despise new users like you that come on here, recite ChatGPT and force me to refute your claims because you are otherwise providing improper information.

ART describes IVF AND men's fertility treatment.

ART does not describe men's fertility treatment dummy

 

[aids]

read the full article

What you've quoted here does not disprove my claims you moron.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/archive/news/ioppn/records/2013/july/ivf-treatments-risk-of-intellectual-disability-and-autismW

We can go back and forth linking articles without any explanation/interpretation of the articles ourselves all day.
I'm done with you now.
Go get a grip and get rid of your menial grudges.

 

[aids]

ART does not describe men's fertility treatment dummy

The context of our discourse is that we are people using AAS and we want to maximise the outcomes for our offspring.
Many of us will likely need to use an ART protocol to conceive children.
This involves (for us) HCG, HMG, etc.
Are you a woman? Are you the one receiving sperm injections? No, so use your head here for what I am referring to. It is relevant because the men in this literature are using such.
Forgive my lack of clarification but my point remains.
Now I am actually done with you.

 

[2026ceI]

JFL, I absolutely despise new users like you that come on here, recite ChatGPT and force me to refute your claims because you are otherwise providing improper information.

ART describes IVF AND men's fertility treatment. "

ur so fucking retarded

the study u are referencing has nothing to do with hcg monotherapy, doesnt mention it once, it is only referring to ivf and icsi

Cardiometabolic health of children conceived by assisted reproductive technologies - PMC

The cardiometabolic health of children conceived by assisted reproductive technologies (ART) compared with children conceived without medical assistance is unclear. Although the majority of published studies evaluating height, weight, and body mass ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

even a direct quote from the abstract in the study proves my point "Assisted reproductive technologies are defined here as all techniques whereby both eggs and sperm are handled"

Now leave this forum you pseudointellectual for you do not contribute.

 

[aids]

ur so fucking retarded

the study u are referencing has nothing to do with hcg monotherapy, doesnt mention it once, it is only referring to ivf and icsi

Cardiometabolic health of children conceived by assisted reproductive technologies - PMC

The cardiometabolic health of children conceived by assisted reproductive technologies (ART) compared with children conceived without medical assistance is unclear. Although the majority of published studies evaluating height, weight, and body mass ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

even a direct quote from the abstract in the study proves my point "Assisted reproductive technologies are defined here as all techniques whereby both eggs and sperm are handled"

The context of our discourse is that we are people using AAS and we want to maximise the outcomes for our offspring.
Many of us will likely need to use an ART protocol to conceive children.
This involves (for us) HCG, HMG, etc.
Are you a woman? Are you the one receiving sperm injections? No, so use your head here for what I am referring to. It is relevant because the men in this literature are using such.
Forgive my lack of clarification but my point remains.
Now I am actually done with you.

.

 

[aids]

ur so fucking retarded

the study u are referencing has nothing to do with hcg monotherapy, doesnt mention it once, it is only referring to ivf and icsi

Cardiometabolic health of children conceived by assisted reproductive technologies - PMC

The cardiometabolic health of children conceived by assisted reproductive technologies (ART) compared with children conceived without medical assistance is unclear. Although the majority of published studies evaluating height, weight, and body mass ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

even a direct quote from the abstract in the study proves my point "Assisted reproductive technologies are defined here as all techniques whereby both eggs and sperm are handled"

"doesnt mention it once"

The health of children conceived by ovarian stimulation apart from ART has only recently begun to be investigated (72–75), given the lack of registries or other sampling frameworks in which to identify couples and their children. Low birth weight (74, 76, 77), preterm birth (74, 76, 77), and small for gestational age (78) have been found to be increased among births conceived using clomiphene citrate or injectable gonadotropin compared with births conceived without assistance. A recent study found that 3–10-year-old boys (n = 39) conceived by ovulation stimulation (by different regimens of clomiphene, FSH, or both) were on average 3 cm shorter than children conceived without assistance (75). In the study reviewed above (Table 1), Scherrer et al. (50) measured FMD in children conceived after ovulation stimulation and found no significant differences in comparison with the non-ART group, although the sample sizes were small (n = 16 and 53, respectively).

 

[aids]

"doesnt mention it once"

Inb4 you say "this is the treatment for the woman".

 

[2026ceI]

.

"Assisted reproductive technologies are defined here as all techniques whereby both eggs and sperm are handled"

"doesnt mention it once"

Inb4 you say "this is the treatment for the woman".

of course i will mention that, its completely irrelevant to hcg monotherapy in men

also, its not even hcg monotherapy, retard, as hcg monotherapy refers to hcg use for stimulating testes

proves my point hcg =/= art aswell

use some logic for one second, a women who cannot produce her eggs naturally (due to poor health) has a less healthy child???

u should know by know that healthy prenatal development is essential for health/development

u disproved nothing with any of ur replies, point still stands that that study is completely irrelevant to hcg monotherapy and all ur doing is nonsensical fearmongering

 

[2026ceI]

The context of our discourse is that we are people using AAS and we want to maximise the outcomes for our offspring.
Many of us will likely need to use an ART protocol to conceive children.
This involves (for us) HCG, HMG, etc.
Are you a woman? Are you the one receiving sperm injections? No, so use your head here for what I am referring to. It is relevant because the men in this literature are using such.
Forgive my lack of clarification but my point remains.
Now I am actually done with you.

so u think hcg is only a problem when combined with art? (hcg monotherapy isnt art)

art literally accounts for like 1% of births so it is unlikely we will need it anyway, and ur conclusion is that hcg from the male is whats causing the problems not the fucking in vitro childbirth?

i am genuinely just curious as to how u have come to ur conclusion

 

[aids]

so u think hcg is only a problem when combined with art? (hcg monotherapy isnt art)

art literally accounts for like 1% of births so it is unlikely we will need it anyway, and ur conclusion is that hcg from the male is whats causing the problems not the fucking in vitro childbirth?

i am genuinely just curious as to how u have come to ur conclusion

When is ART such as ICSI used?

 

[2026ceI]

When is ART such as ICSI used?

that has nothing to do with hcg monotherapy nigga

so ur point now is that if u go completely infertile and hcg/hmg dont work to restore testicular function then issues for ur childern can occur when icsi is used?

u are completely backtracking

 

[aids]

that has nothing to do with hcg monotherapy nigga

so ur point now is that if u go completely infertile and hcg/hmg dont work to restore testicular function then issues for ur childern can occur when icsi is used?

u are completely backtracking

ICSI is not applicable if you have azoospermia.