A few questions about MSE and FaceMask

[Julius]

Alright guys, I tried searching on the website but couldn't find any decisive answer, if there are please post a link to the thread and feel free to call me low IQ.

- Does MSE increase IPD?
Yeah, I know Ronald Ead only got like 1 mm of IPD increase, but do you think it is possible to get a more significant increase if you do a slow expansion instead of what Ronald did?

- What exactly does the facemask do?
Does it bring your whole midface (maxilla, cheekbones and undereye) forward, or just the LeFort 1 area (lower maxilla)?

- I think I have an average size palate, will a orthodontist refuse to give me MSE since technically I don't need it?

Thanks

Inb4

Muhhh MSE won't turn you into a slayer, get LeFort Infinity instead

I know and I don't care, I already have a decent forward growth, I'm getting MSE and FaceMask for functional reasons and a broader smile, any other aesthetic improvement is just a bonus.

 

[000]

Alright guys, I tried searching on the website but couldn't find any decisive answer, if there are please post a link to the thread and feel free to call me low IQ.

- Does MSE increase IPD?
Yeah, I know Ronald Ead only got like 1 mm of IPD increase, but do you think it is possible to get a more significant increase if you do a slow expansion instead of what Ronald did?

- What exactly does the facemask do?
Does it bring your whole midface (maxilla, cheekbones and undereye) forward, or just the LeFort 1 area (lower maxilla)?

- I think I have an average size palate, will a orthodontist refuse to give me MSE since technically I don't need it?

Thanks

Inb4

I know and I don't care, I already have a decent forward growth, I'm getting MSE and FaceMask for functional reasons and a broader smile, any other aesthetic improvement is just a bonus.

MSE can increase IPD by a tiny amount. There are some orthodontics who give MSE for aesthetics (when you don’t need it) and some who do not.

 

[Julius]

MSE can increase IPD by a tiny amount. There are some orthodontics who give MSE for aesthetics (when you don’t need it) and some who do not.

Fair enough, do you think there is any difference in terms of IPD increase in doing a slow expansion instead of a fast one?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Minimally increase IPD basically the deeper screws the better gains in upper maxilla
Facemask give forward growth of whole maxilla since its bone anchored.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

Does MSE increase IPD?
Yeah, I know Ronald Ead only got like 1 mm of IPD increase, but do you think it is possible to get a more significant increase if you do a slow expansion instead of what Ronald did?

Don’t know. Don’t think it matters when it comes to turning protocol

What exactly does the facemask do?
Does it bring your whole midface (maxilla, cheekbones and undereye) forward, or just the LeFort 1 area (lower maxilla)?

I think I have an average size palate, will a orthodontist refuse to give me MSE since technically I don't need it?

I have an above avg palate and my ortho still let me get it. Just say for entirely aesthetics and it’s more likely you get it.

 

[000]

Fair enough, do you think there is any difference in terms of IPD increase in doing a slow expansion instead of a fast one?

I do know but slow expansion = more midface changes but I don’t know how the midface changes.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

I do know that slow expansion = more midface chances but I don’t know how the midface changes.

Slow expansion = more expansion because with fast expansion tads will tip 2-3mm and you lose that 2-3 mm of expansion. Fast expansion may even lead to bone fractures

 

[000]

Slow expansion = more expansion because with fast expansion tads will tip 2-3mm and you lose that 2-3 mm of expansion. Fast expansion may even lead to bone fractures

I made a typo

 

[Truemaxxer]

tbh there isint much evidence for facemask.

 

[retard]

1. the older you are the less likely you are to get IPD changes due to the bone being harder, and the highest up point of the implant (part responsible for IPD increase) is also most likely to be bent, mse screws come in 11 mm and 13mm, you can get more IPD increase with 13 mm screw but i think it had special conditions for use the ortho decides based off the maxillas height in an X-ray

2.Entire midface is bright forward, but not equally, orbitals will be brought forward 1 mm for every 2-2.5mm you get of movement in the lefort I region

hkwever this is somewhat misleading because in a positional sense your orbitals actually move back in relative positioning to the bottom of your maxilla

3. gotta find a blackpilled ortho, most dont even give mse, most of those wont give it someone who doesn’t functionally benefit from it

 

[Deleted member 6403]

1. the older you are the less likely you are to get IPD changes due to the bone being harder, and the highest up point of the implant (part responsible for IPD increase) is also most likely to be bent, mse screws come in 11 mm and 13mm, you can get more IPD increase with 13 mm screw but i think it had special conditions for use the ortho decides based off the maxillas height in an X-ray

whats the cutoff age?

 

[retard]

whats the cutoff age?

just a guesstimate but under 23 is good imo

 

[Julius]

1. the older you are the less likely you are to get IPD changes due to the bone being harder, and the highest up point of the implant (part responsible for IPD increase) is also most likely to be bent, mse screws come in 11 mm and 13mm, you can get more IPD increase with 13 mm screw but i think it had special conditions for use the ortho decides based off the maxillas height in an X-ray

2.Entire midface is bright forward, but not equally, orbitals will be brought forward 1 mm for every 2-2.5mm you get of movement in the lefort I region

hkwever this is somewhat misleading because in a positional sense your orbitals actually move back in relative positioning to the bottom of your maxilla

3. gotta find a blackpilled ortho, most dont even give mse, most of those wont give it someone who doesn’t functionally benefit from it

Fuck that's bad news for me, my orbital positioning is already good compared to my maxilla, so bringing the maxilla too forward compared to my orbitals will probably ruin my harmony and make me look like a dog.

Minimally increase IPD basically the deeper screws the better gains in upper maxilla
Facemask give forward growth of whole maxilla since its bone anchored.

Don’t know. Don’t think it matters when it comes to turning protocol

View attachment 604946

I have an above avg palate and my ortho still let me get it. Just say for entirely aesthetics and it’s more likely you get it.

I do know but slow expansion = more midface changes but I don’t know how the midface changes.

tbh there isint much evidence for facemask.

Thanks to everyone for answering

 

[retard]

Fuck that's bad news for me, my orbital positioning is already good compared to my maxilla, so bringing the maxilla too forward compared to my orbitals will probably ruin my harmony and make me look like a dog.




Thanks to everyone for answering

I didn’t specify, orbitals only move backwards with CCW, not just a maxilla translation with mse, I just think of forward growth and CCW as one in the same since everyone wants the two together lol

 

[Julius]

I didn’t specify, orbitals only move backwards with CCW, not just a maxilla translation with mse, I just think of forward growth and CCW as one in the same since everyone wants the two together lol

How do you know if you need CCW rotation or just some forward advancement? Do I need a CT scan?

 

[retard]

How do you know if you need CCW rotation or just some forward advancement? Do I need a CT scan?

only reason to go for ccw is either midface reduction or gummy smile, it can also give some forward growth, but if you got mse fm that wouldn’t be much of an issue anyways

 

[Sergio-OMS]

Alright guys, I tried searching on the website but couldn't find any decisive answer, if there are please post a link to the thread and feel free to call me low IQ.

- Does MSE increase IPD?
Yeah, I know Ronald Ead only got like 1 mm of IPD increase, but do you think it is possible to get a more significant increase if you do a slow expansion instead of what Ronald did?

I don’t think so.

- What exactly does the facemask do?
Does it bring your whole midface (maxilla, cheekbones and undereye) forward, or just the LeFort 1 area (lower maxilla)?

Everything, but mainly lower area.

- I think I have an average size palate, will a orthodontist refuse to give me MSE since technically I don't need it?

They will probably refuse.

 

[FACEandDnB]

I don’t think so.




Everything, but mainly lower area.



They will probably refuse.

hey @Sergio-OMS , do you provide the facemask in your treatment if the patient asks for it?

 

[lutte]

I don’t think so.




Everything, but mainly lower area.



They will probably refuse.

I had two extractions for braces (14, 24) at age 15/16, could i still get MSE for wider palate and smile? Would i need to open the extraction sites and get implants or dental bridges for optimal result?

 

[Sergio-OMS]

hey @Sergio-OMS , do you provide the facemask in your treatment if the patient asks for it?

only if the patient understands everything... and I convince my orthodontist, of course. I’m only a surgeon.

 

[Sergio-OMS]

.

 

[Sergio-OMS]

I had two extractions for braces (14, 24) at age 15/16, could i still get MSE for wider palate and smile? Would i need to open the extraction sites and get implants or dental bridges for optimal result?

Maybe and maybe

 

[lutte]

Maybe and maybe

What determines if i can get it or not? Ever installed on anyone who had extractions? I'd ideally want MSE then bimax.

 

[Deleted member 6892]

only reason to go for ccw is either midface reduction or gummy smile, it can also give some forward growth, but if you got mse fm that wouldn’t be much of an issue anyways

Doesn’t CCW rotation help things such as zygo height and under eyes?

 

[retard]

Doesn’t CCW rotation help things such as zygo height and under eyes?

no since the zygo and under eye area of the maxilla support comes from the middle of the maxilla, meaning rotations of the maxilla have minimal impact on it, chewing on your first molar would apply force to heighten position of both of those since it applies upwards force to center of maxilla

 

[Sergio-OMS]

What determines if i can get it or not? Ever installed on anyone who had extractions? I'd ideally want MSE then bimax.

Sounds like a good plan.

The need for expansion is determined by the discrepancy between both dental arches, and also the discrepancy between the size of the sum of all teeth in the upper dental arch and the availability of bone to keep those teeth in a healthy position.

There good think with MSE + bimax is that with the latter we can help adjusting the occlusion.

You would also need orthodontics

 

[SPFromNY914]

I didn’t specify, orbitals only move backwards with CCW, not just a maxilla translation with mse, I just think of forward growth and CCW as one in the same since everyone wants the two together lol
[/QUOTE
So there is no way to move orbitals forward in proportion with lower third? Also Will an infraorbital implant help harmonize the appearance after CCW?

 

[SPFromNY914]

only reason to go for ccw is either midface reduction or gummy smile, it can also give some forward growth, but if you got mse fm that wouldn’t be much of an issue anyways

How bout pairing BiMax after a couple years of MSE+FM?

 

[retard]

How bout pairing BiMax after a couple years of MSE+FM?

probably overkill but would work nonetheless