Achieving a better CCW Rotation (theory)

limbomax

limbomax

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warning: I have no clue how to format so don't call me out for how bad it is
(also first high effort thread)


Watch this video with Dr Bill Hang talking about clenching/ molars in contact

Its interesting how he mentions that clenching will impact the maxilla upward and cause the jaw to swing forward. I find this to be true looking at myself. I clenched as a youngster, never had great oral posture, however my maxilla is still very forwards. I do NOT condone clenching, however, I think this goes to show again how our bodies can be constantly changed through various forces, including our facial form.

the theory:
There is good clenching and bad clenching. In terms of posture, engaging the masseters is never good, whereas engaging the temporalii almost always is, since the former doesn't have any postural function whereas the latter does:
1726800538435
1726800591638
1726800614574

Downsides of clenching:
A Reddit user :lul: shared the unfortunate changes he had seen from constant clenching of the masseters. His jawline had become very bent:
1726800910211
So how does the theory work if clenching doesn't?:
Like I said there is good clenching and bad clenching. Masseters alone are unlikely to be able to cause CCW rotation, because they are attached to the same structures that you are trying to rotate. You would pointlessly end up pulling the zygos and the gonion towards each other without achieving much else (apart from increase in mandibular and zygomatic mass). As for the temporalii, I can't speak for chewing, but postural activation of the temporalii is not going to pull your palate backwards. I know, it sounds counter-intuitive, since after all you are biting backwards, but take note of how the temporalii sit on top of sphenoid and the sphenoid-frontal-temporal sutures:
1726801312224

So what will happen with temporalis activation is not just about the palate being pulled backwards as it first seems, but instead, at the same time the mandible is -- by using the maxille as leverage -- going to be pulling the sphenoid/cranial base downwards by the temporalis... the total outcome of which will be an internal rotation of sorts, something akin to what is illustrated in the following files:

24g2g
auQwPy0.gif

Now if you do try this, Be watchful for TMJ/ear pain while doing this though, I'm not sure if there are some occlusal conditions that would contraindicate temporalis activation (you may also feel other harmless sensations near the ear, actual TMJ pain would feel as if it came from inside the ear).

sources:
http://portlandtmjclinic.com/etiology/introduction
 

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  • JFL
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bump
 
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I’ll read this someday. Nice thread
 
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How do you bias the temporalii sorry I’m not reading it all
 
  • JFL
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How do you bias the temporalii sorry I’m not reading it all
put your thumbs on your masseters and your pointers on your temporalis, if you feel your temporalis flex youre doing it right
 
Damn that transformation from clenching was brootal, some theories are just better left on read and not acted out
 
so you searched for temporalis in a random doc/study and what now??? where is the quality thread
 
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Reactions: ungewist
im sorry man im not reading all that can u pls simplify
 
wait so we should clench the temporalis and not the masseters?
 
im sorry man im not reading all that can u pls simplify
tldr: instead of clenching with your masseters clench with your temporalis muscle.
 
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Reactions: ungewist, Napoleon1800 and Deleted member 91529
i can tell you dnr'd
your linking a youtube video and the first result on google of a introduction, what is there to not read? there just isnt any quality
 
your linking a youtube video and the first result on google of a introduction, what is there to not read? there just isnt any quality
if you want to look at the sources yourself you can, just hover over the ETIOLOGY tab on the website i linked in sources. gets very deep. just felt like making this as simple as possible.
 
warning: I have no clue how to format so don't call me out for how bad it is
(also first high effort thread)


Watch this video with Dr Bill Hang talking about clenching/ molars in contact

Its interesting how he mentions that clenching will impact the maxilla upward and cause the jaw to swing forward. I find this to be true looking at myself. I clenched as a youngster, never had great oral posture, however my maxilla is still very forwards. I do NOT condone clenching, however, I think this goes to show again how our bodies can be constantly changed through various forces, including our facial form.

the theory:
There is good clenching and bad clenching. In terms of posture, engaging the masseters is never good, whereas engaging the temporalii almost always is, since the former doesn't have any postural function whereas the latter does:
View attachment 3183455View attachment 3183458View attachment 3183459

Downsides of clenching:
A Reddit user :lul: shared the unfortunate changes he had seen from constant clenching of the masseters. His jawline had become very bent:View attachment 3183470
So how does the theory work if clenching doesn't?:
Like I said there is good clenching and bad clenching. Masseters alone are unlikely to be able to cause CCW rotation, because they are attached to the same structures that you are trying to rotate. You would pointlessly end up pulling the zygos and the gonion towards each other without achieving much else (apart from increase in mandibular and zygomatic mass). As for the temporalii, I can't speak for chewing, but postural activation of the temporalii is not going to pull your palate backwards. I know, it sounds counter-intuitive, since after all you are biting backwards, but take note of how the temporalii sit on top of sphenoid and the sphenoid-frontal-temporal sutures:
View attachment 3183484

So what will happen with temporalis activation is not just about the palate being pulled backwards as it first seems, but instead, at the same time the mandible is -- by using the maxille as leverage -- going to be pulling the sphenoid/cranial base downwards by the temporalis... the total outcome of which will be an internal rotation of sorts, something akin to what is illustrated in the following files:

24g2g
auQwPy0.gif

Now if you do try this, Be watchful for TMJ/ear pain while doing this though, I'm not sure if there are some occlusal conditions that would contraindicate temporalis activation (you may also feel other harmless sensations near the ear, actual TMJ pain would feel as if it came from inside the ear).

sources:
http://portlandtmjclinic.com/etiology/introduction
I thought based off SFS and bruxism clenching made your teeth go into your chin/mandible and shortens chin and maxilla stays same length, explain that......
 
I thought based off SFS and bruxism clenching made your teeth go into your chin/mandible and shortens chin and maxilla stays same length, explain that......
its a theory but you also probably dnr'd when i said theres good clenching and bad clenching
 
its a theory but you also probably dnr'd when i said theres good clenching and bad clenching
I’ll look again but explain the difference in more detail Bhai?
 
warning: I have no clue how to format so don't call me out for how bad it is
(also first high effort thread)


Watch this video with Dr Bill Hang talking about clenching/ molars in contact

Its interesting how he mentions that clenching will impact the maxilla upward and cause the jaw to swing forward. I find this to be true looking at myself. I clenched as a youngster, never had great oral posture, however my maxilla is still very forwards. I do NOT condone clenching, however, I think this goes to show again how our bodies can be constantly changed through various forces, including our facial form.

the theory:
There is good clenching and bad clenching. In terms of posture, engaging the masseters is never good, whereas engaging the temporalii almost always is, since the former doesn't have any postural function whereas the latter does:
View attachment 3183455View attachment 3183458View attachment 3183459

Downsides of clenching:
A Reddit user :lul: shared the unfortunate changes he had seen from constant clenching of the masseters. His jawline had become very bent:View attachment 3183470
So how does the theory work if clenching doesn't?:
Like I said there is good clenching and bad clenching. Masseters alone are unlikely to be able to cause CCW rotation, because they are attached to the same structures that you are trying to rotate. You would pointlessly end up pulling the zygos and the gonion towards each other without achieving much else (apart from increase in mandibular and zygomatic mass). As for the temporalii, I can't speak for chewing, but postural activation of the temporalii is not going to pull your palate backwards. I know, it sounds counter-intuitive, since after all you are biting backwards, but take note of how the temporalii sit on top of sphenoid and the sphenoid-frontal-temporal sutures:
View attachment 3183484

So what will happen with temporalis activation is not just about the palate being pulled backwards as it first seems, but instead, at the same time the mandible is -- by using the maxille as leverage -- going to be pulling the sphenoid/cranial base downwards by the temporalis... the total outcome of which will be an internal rotation of sorts, something akin to what is illustrated in the following files:

24g2g
auQwPy0.gif

Now if you do try this, Be watchful for TMJ/ear pain while doing this though, I'm not sure if there are some occlusal conditions that would contraindicate temporalis activation (you may also feel other harmless sensations near the ear, actual TMJ pain would feel as if it came from inside the ear).

sources:
http://portlandtmjclinic.com/etiology/introduction
How do you use temples and not massaters ?
 
"muh high effort thread" when you just lifted the whole thing from wholebodybreathing JFL
 
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"muh high effort thread" when you just lifted the whole thing from wholebodybreathing JFL
Not suprised he did that tbh
 
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op the clenching before is the after
 
So I gotta use the front teeth?
 
I thinks that front teeth
Biggest Error possible, it will downswing your jaw, if you use molars I don't know if it will upswing or do nothing, but I guess biologically that using molars is not bad. The force comes from the maxilla, so you have to use the molars to make a leverage effect that will go up the front of the maxilla
 
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Biggest Error possible, it will downswing your jaw, if you use molars I don't know if it will upswing or do nothing, but I guess biologically that using molars is not bad. The force comes from the maxilla, so you have to use the molars to make a leverage effect that will go up the front of the maxilla
But every time I use the molars i look bloated lol and humans chew with the molars, Everybody would have been goodlooking so I don’t believe that
 
U didn’t explain how to only bias the temploralis tho
 
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Reactions: Napoleon1800
seems like you just copy pasted this theory from that mewing website. What's your further reasoning, any new insights?
actually been doing this kind of clench for a while now and i can see minor differences, nothing too major but in the end I do look better. idk how to explain it my head just looks better. head shape that is.
 
if you clench with your temporalis wouldn't that give you more downward growth because you're pulling the back of your mandible up?
1731569397977

From this gif it looks like we should be relaxing our temporalis.
 

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