Any athletes used EPO before?

[m0ss26]

I highly doubt anyone has but I'm wondering if there are any like endurance athletes or something that have experience with EPO.

I have vague ideas of how to run protocols of it but I want to weigh pros and cons and see if it's worth running this early into my journey as a mma fighter

 

[m0ss26]

bump

 

[Tomorrow]

bump, also interested in the answer tbh

 

[m0ss26]

bumparooni

 

[gonnabehappy]

Omg something I fucking know about.

Yes long distance athletes are on EPO. Main EPO era was early 2000s and 90s. Think haile, el guerrouj, noah ngeny, daniel komen, al sal. Increases blood oxygen uptake which is key for endurance sports (aerobic ability).

Not used as much nowadays as testing has gotten better. Kenyans get popped all the time but more of them are on it IMO because kenya doping control is shit. Off the top of my head Mo Katir (spain 5k/1500m guy) and Rhonex Kipruto (HMwr) are big busts in the last 2 yrs. I don’t rly follow women. The big one in the US was shelby houlihan burrito girl on nandrolone, but that’s not EPO.

 

[gonnabehappy]

Ask more this is exciting

 

[m0ss26]

Omg something I fucking know about.

Yes long distance athletes are on EPO. Main EPO era was early 2000s and 90s. Think haile, el guerrouj, noah ngeny, daniel komen, al sal. Increases blood oxygen uptake which is key for endurance sports (aerobic ability).

Not used as much nowadays as testing has gotten better. Kenyans get popped all the time but more of them are on it IMO because kenya doping control is shit. Off the top of my head Mo Katir (spain 5k/1500m guy) and Rhonex Kipruto (HMwr) are big busts in the last 2 yrs. I don’t rly follow women. The big one in the US was shelby houlihan burrito girl on nandrolone, but that’s not EPO.

i believe almost every elite level distance athlete is on this shit tbh

do you know anything about the protocols they use? how long on/off? are the endurance gains made on it significant even when you come off?

and also are you well versed in scientifically training for endurance? i need some help with how much volume i should be doing and what zone to be optimal as an mma athlete, and it seems ur well versed

 

[m0ss26]

The big one in the US was shelby houlihan burrito girl on nandrolone, but that’s not EPO.

do you think there was any reason she was on nandrolone over other anabolics? maybe harder to detect and nice on the joints?

 

[gonnabehappy]

i believe almost every elite level distance athlete is on this shit tbh

Certainly not every one, but not an insignificant amount either. True number is unknown ofc (remember that blood tests go off of deviation from baseline, and your baseline can already be roided, so many are on this shit before they ever get their first true blood test), and an athlete is clean until they are popped. I think less are on it than one might assume. I would bet that sedjati and the 800 guys are on it though, and Nader the portuguese guy who won 1500m worlds.

Abusing thyroid meds is meta as well. Most OP legal supplement rn is sodium bicarbonate in a digestable form which limits lactic acid buildup (think acid base reaction, NAHCO3 neutralizes C3H6O3, like in a titration experiment where the glass turns pink due to the indicator phenolpthaline). Sodium Bicarbonate is best for 800m, the race with the most lactic acid buildup.

do you know anything about the protocols they use? how long on/off? are the endurance gains made on it significant even when you come off?

Kind of. I know they cycle EPO, and cycling it works well in corrupt systems, like Kenya. Cycling it helps them avoid blood tests. I don't know more about cycling it. Gains are significant when you're off, and it's not just having more mitochondria or red blood cells or whatever, even physiology/muscles will receive good stimulus for being able to train harder without needing to recover as much, and those gains ofc carry over even when your red blood cell count goes down. That's all I know off top of my head though, and is very general.

and also are you well versed in scientifically training for endurance? i need some help with how much volume i should be doing and what zone to be optimal as an mma athlete, and it seems ur well versed

I'm more versed on endurance training than 99% of the forum that's fs but it depends what u wanna do and are training for.

do you think there was any reason she was on nandrolone over other anabolics? maybe harder to detect and nice on the joints?

Idk tbh. I don't look into roids or EPO that much because it's not something I'm ever gonna do.

 

[m0ss26]

Abusing thyroid meds is meta as well. Most OP legal supplement rn is sodium bicarbonate in a digestable form which limits lactic acid buildup (think acid base reaction, NAHCO3 neutralizes C3H6O3, like in a titration experiment where the glass turns pink due to the indicator phenolpthaline). Sodium Bicarbonate is best for 800m, the race with the most lactic acid buildup.

So t3/t4 can help endurance ur saying? Those are the thyroid meds that come to mind at least…

I’m going to try that sodium bicarbonate, that’s super interesting

I'm more versed on endurance training than 99% of the forum that's fs but it depends what u wanna do and are training for.

I’m a grappler (wrestling/bjj) and endurance is legit my largest weakness, and I train for hours every day for years but I still suck in that regard. My heart rate gets jacked very fast and muscular fatigue absolutely decimates me within very short periods. I will say I am a quite muscular guy but nothing abnormal.

How would you program cardio volume outside of my skill sessions? Matches are of course very high pace and I need to be able to go for like 10 minutes. How should I split my heart rate zones and program? I’m willing to do any amount of volume, whatever it takes. I’m basically a full time athlete part time student.

 

[m0ss26]

Kind of. I know they cycle EPO, and cycling it works well in corrupt systems, like Kenya. Cycling it helps them avoid blood tests. I don't know more about cycling it. Gains are significant when you're off, and it's not just having more mitochondria or red blood cells or whatever, even physiology/muscles will receive good stimulus for being able to train harder without needing to recover as much, and those gains ofc carry over even when your red blood cell count goes down. That's all I know off top of my head though, and is very general.

That’s super promising for me man, I would just want to make sure that if I get on it the drug isn’t wasted, like I want to make the ABSOLUTE most

 

[gonnabehappy]

I wouldn’t run anything, it’s kinda dumb imo, but good to talk about. Not worth it at all. Trust you can see crazy gains still clean with cardio, endurance, and the aerobic system. It is much much different than something like test.

If you’re severely fatigued during a match (opponent always is moving better than you) you need to work on your training. What do u do now.

 

[m0ss26]

If you’re severely fatigued during a match (opponent always is moving better than you) you need to work on your training. What do u do now.

I’ve gotten so much more efficient with my movement through improving skills ofc but even when I’m winning I’m absolutely gassed to oblivion. Many times I know what I need to do technique wise but my body can’t do it because the endurance issue. I’m at a decent level, ufc fighters often look to train with me but the gas tank is just fucked. Ur saying nothing outside of just continuing to train could help?

 

[gonnabehappy]

I’ve gotten so much more efficient with my movement through improving skills ofc but even when I’m winning I’m absolutely gassed to oblivion. Many times I know what I need to do technique wise but my body can’t do it because the endurance issue. I’m at a decent level, ufc fighters often look to train with me but the gas tank is just fucked. Ur saying nothing outside of just continuing to train could help?

It’s a physical issue isn’t it, and you know the only solution is more training. I’m not gonna give advice on MMA training cuz I don’t know shit, but if you ever wanna run a fast mile or 5k lmk .

 

[m0ss26]

It’s a physical issue isn’t it, and you know the only solution is more training. I’m not gonna give advice on MMA training cuz I don’t know shit, but if you ever wanna run a fast mile or 5k lmk .

Let’s say I wanted to run a hella fast 5k

How would u program

Say somebody newer to running

 

[gonnabehappy]

Let’s say I wanted to run a hella fast 5k

How would u program

Say somebody newer to running

Too many factors. If someone’s brand new you have to teach them how to run first, essentially training them to complete a 5k. Then go from there.

 

[m0ss26]

Too many factors. If someone’s brand new you have to teach them how to run first, essentially training them to complete a 5k. Then go from there.

Assume they have form down and they can run a 5k, just kind of slowly

How to improve sheer cardiac output basically?

 

[gonnabehappy]

Assume they have form down and they can run a 5k, just kind of slowly

How to improve sheer cardiac output basically?

Racing a slow 5k and having good form are pretty much mutually exclusive ngl.

Still too many factors. I’d need to know how fast they ran it, what’s their height, weight, form looking like, how much they want to train, what have they done before, etc

 

[gonnabehappy]

And ngl nobody gafs about form if you’re new and you don’t have severe issues, form will usually correct itself into an acceptable range with more volume.

 

[m0ss26]

Racing a slow 5k and having good form are pretty much mutually exclusive ngl.

Still too many factors. I’d need to know how fast they ran it, what’s their height, weight, form looking like, how much they want to train, what have they done before, etc

Fuck bro I just need a idea of a block for better endurance in the 10-25 minute goal range

Let’s say I run 25 minute right now and goal is 18 (obv that would take a long time)
5’9 185 16% bf
Willing to train any amount necessary
Also on PEDs if that matters

 

[gonnabehappy]

I would put you on easy mileage where you slowly work up to 4 miles a weekday with six miles on weekend, 1 off day, no workouts, and continuing to race a 5k every 4th weekend. Absolute max I’d make you do is like 4 strides after 2 weekday runs, 20 seconds each pretty hard and opening the legs up.

When your 5k plateaus, that’s when it’s time to progress and do workouts. You have to learn how to do easy runs and race a 5k first. It cannot be taught on paper. Doing workouts this early in development is not beneficial, it’s too early.

Also it’s rly not realistic to be in the weight room more than 3 days a week as an athlete who prioritizes long distance running. Most I’d do is to make sure you do hip mobility and a core routine after every run.

With the above though it should be doable on top of any weightlifting or other activity you’re currently doing. May change in future as intensity ramps up.

 

[m0ss26]

I would put you on easy mileage where you slowly work up to 4 miles a weekday with six miles on weekend, 1 off day, no workouts, and continuing to race a 5k every 4th weekend. Absolute max I’d make you do is like 4 strides after 2 weekday runs, 20 seconds each pretty hard and opening the legs up.

When your 5k plateaus, that’s when it’s time to progress and do workouts. You have to learn how to do easy runs and race a 5k first. It cannot be taught on paper. Doing workouts this early in development is not beneficial, it’s too early.

Also it’s rly not realistic to be in the weight room more than 3 days a week as an athlete who prioritizes long distance running. Most I’d do is to make sure you do hip mobility and a core routine after every run.

With the above though it should be doable on top of any weightlifting or other activity you’re currently doing. May change in future as intensity ramps up.

Thank you bro
I know all ur responses took a lot of effort

I will be running!

 

[gonnabehappy]

Thank you bro
I know all ur responses took a lot of effort

I will be running!

Oh seriously? You gonna sign up for a race or js time yourself? Honestly I’d completely freestyle it up until your first race cuz that’ll make you learn about your body the best. Don’t go over 5mi or 50mins.

 

[gonnabehappy]

Js disregard what I said in hypothetical situation (cuz that’s what I’d do with a 25 min guy) and freestyle depending on how you feel until your first race. Write down what you did daily on a google sheet or paper or doc etc. Use your phone since I doubt u have a watch, js write down mileage/km and time. Completely freestyle it.