Can a person with no mental illnesses become a loser?

[positiveloop]

Im talking about someone with a perfectly functioning brain- balanced neurotransmitters, no physiological defects, healthy upbringing

Can that person still end up a loser?

 

[Deleted member 25059]

yes
being loser is not some mental state being or fact, but a label that society gives you.

 

[WeiWei]

yes?

 

[RAITEIII]

Im talking about someone with a perfectly functioning brain- balanced neurotransmitters, no physiological defects, healthy upbringing

Can that person still end up a loser?

Yes.

Brain is adaptable. A person can be perfectly fine and with the right type of hit become a mental loser. Like wise become functional when it's in bad shape - cases may vary.
If you were to present a situation where this person feels good or neutral at all times I guess they can more easily choose to keep working on moving forward.

What's your definition of loser?

 

[positiveloop]

yes
being loser is not some mental state being or fact, but a label that society gives you.

And what causes someone to become one in your opinion?

In my case, it was OCD which made me avoid everything, and caused a near complete lack of action

 

[positiveloop]

yes?

You talk like a woman

 

[WeiWei]

You talk like a woman

 

[positiveloop]

yes?

That question mark offends me. Its as if you think the answer is so obvious and it reeks of passive aggresiveness. Extreme low T trait.
Delete it now.

 

[positiveloop]

Also stop watching mike adrianos work it ruins your brain

 

[mogger123]

Mental illnesses are invented ad hoc to justify problems. They aren't real

 

[positiveloop]

Mental illnesses are invented ad hoc to justify problems. They aren't real

One of the stupidest takes i have ever encoutered. Ironically I think mental illness is causing you to deny its existence.

they are real and are caused by physical brain structure deformities and/or neurotransimtter irregularities. The brain is a physical organ that can have developmental issues just like every other organ.

For example in OCD this Video explains the scientific, measurable meaning in the brain:

 

[mogger123]

One of the stupidest takes i have ever encoutered. Ironically I think mental illness is causing you to deny its existence.

they are real and are caused by physical brain structure deformities and/or neurotransimtter irregularities. The brain is a physical organ that can have developmental issues just like every other organ.

For example in OCD this Video explains the scientific, measurable meaning in the brain:

Brains behaving differently != Mental illness is my point

It's just variability in existence

 

[positiveloop]

Brains behaving differently != Mental illness is my point

It's just variability in existence

So someone having a fucked up heart or no toes is just variability in existence?

 

[positiveloop]

So someone having a fucked up heart or no toes is just variability in existence?

Mentall illnesses are caused by enviormental toxins and genetics (epigenetics caused by enviormentsl tox8ns if you ask me)

 

[Deleted member 33275]

I'm a nigger

 

[mogger123]

So someone having a fucked up heart or no toes is just variability in existence?

yes, but these are demonstratably real and not at odds with the idea of agency

 

[dreamcake1mo]

Your a loser if you have no mental illness.

Everything people consider cool in todays time is 9/10 some form of disorder or illness.

 

[positiveloop]

yes, but these are demonstratably real and not at odds with the idea of agency

Smh did you even watch the video? Mentall ilnesses are caused by parts of the brain that do not function like they sre SUPPOSED to. scientists have been able to trigger mental illnesses in rats by adminstrating neurotoxins.
it had nothing to do with the concept of agency, the brain is like an incredibly complex gear system, that can have broken gears. Im not talking about personality quirks and shit, rather about actually DEBILITATING conditions

 

[positiveloop]

Your a loser if you have no mental illness.

Everything people consider cool in todays time is 9/10 some form of disorder or illness.

Its all spectrums.
i have a theory alot if not most hypersuccesful people have a borderline mental illness; part of their brain is like half 'broken' so they hit this sort of sweet spot of it not debilitating them but also allowes them to stand out from the rest and have a special advantage.
For example with ocd if the parts of the brain that cause it are only slightly 'sticky' and hyper activated- causing a very mild form of it- and if well intergrated, it can push the person to achieve great things. I think are alot of succesful people are borderline ocd. but, if moving up ib the spectrum, exiting the sweet spot and having a more severe form of ocd- it can absolutely DESTROY your life.

 

[mogger123]

Smh did you even watch the video? Mentall ilnesses are caused by parts of the brain that do not function like they sre SUPPOSED to. scientists have been able to trigger mental illnesses in rats by adminstrating neurotoxins.
it had nothing to do with the concept of agency, the brain is like an incredibly complex gear system, that can have broken gears. Im not talking about personality quirks and shit, rather about actually DEBILITATING conditions

why would i watch a video

no shit, variability in human beahviour is caused by variability in brains. im not denying this. i just dont think "mental illnesses" are separate from the self and thus not real. what demarcates the difference between a mental condition and a personality quirk or characterstic, for example. they are the exact same shit.

and i dislike your talk about what the brain is "supposed" to do and comparing it to machines. the brain was not designed by anyone to do anything lmao. it's just the product of billions of years of (still ongoing) random processes. there is no "right" or "wrong" thing it should be doing. it just exists

 

[Danish_Retard]

why would i watch a video

no shit, variability in human beahviour is caused by variability in brains. im not denying this. i just dont think "mental illnesses" are separate from the self and thus not real. what demarcates the difference between a mental condition and a personality quirk or characterstic, for example. they are the exact same shit.

and i dislike your talk about what the brain is "supposed" to do and comparing it to machines. the brain was not designed by anyone to do anything lmao. it's just the product of billions of years of (still ongoing) random processes. there is no "right" or "wrong" thing it should be doing. it just exists

What a retarded argument, you're just arguing that someone arbitrarily made definitions and you probably don't fit in the neurotypical category.

Your arguement can be made on any organ, it's fucking retarded.

 

[MoggerGaston]

yes
being loser is not some mental state being or fact, but a label that society gives you.

sucks to have that label judge, how do you cope

 

[mogger123]

What a retarded argument, you're just arguing that someone arbitrarily made definitions and you probably don't fit in the neurotypical category.

Your arguement can be made on any organ, it's fucking retarded.

i am nt

you're partially correct. the difference is that none of our other organs are as complex, fundamentally tied to the concept of the self, or conscious existence. like replace someone's heart or lungs or liver with a robotic one and they're still the same person right? but give them a different brain and the same can't be said

i have a hard time buying into this reductionist there exists you and then a cleanly separate mental illness within that. it's all the same thing imo

 

[positiveloop]

Yes.

Brain is adaptable. A person can be perfectly fine and with the right type of hit become a mental loser. Like wise become functional when it's in bad shape - cases may vary.
If you were to present a situation where this person feels good or neutral at all times I guess they can more easily choose to keep working on moving forward.

What's your definition of loser?

My definition of loser is someone with a 'Failure to launch'. Someone who has currently failed the battle with himself and cannot find a way to meaningfully contribute to the lifes of his surroundings. Someone that lacks contentment and satisfaction with his lifes trajectory, yet it unable to change that. Someone who escapes reality and is unproductive. Someone who cannot generate forward momentum towards his goals, which they do not even fully know what they are in the first place. Someone who lacks responsability and purpose. Someone who is unaware of his flaws, unwilling to try and identify and treat his root problems, yet is fine continuing this way because he created a bubble of comfort. Someone who harbors negative thoughts feelings, and fails to think critically and empathetically. Someone who does not make sacrifices. Someone who is not respected by society, because there is nothing to respect about him. Someone who is unable to adapt to the circumstances.

I am torn between the answer to my question. on one hand i lean very strongly to answering no, because all of this can be caused by the various mental illnesses which exists. And a person with a well developed, balanced and functioning brain will be able to adapt and overcome the causes and events which will otherwise turn him into a loser.
On the other hand, that could be untrue. Our brains are so complex, what if there are a certain combination of external factors that by sheer 'luck' create chain effects that cause the person to react erronuesly, which in turn create even more problem the person is unequiped handeling simply due to circumstances.

 

[positiveloop]

why would i watch a video

what demarcates the difference between a mental condition and a personality quirk or characterstic, for example. they are the exact same same

The difference is that mental conditions are debilitating and harm the persons ability to adapt to external factors and develo. Personality quirks are just that- small differnces brought by upbringing enviorment and natural tendencies, idk how that shit works

and i dislike your talk about what the brain is "supposed" to do and comparing it to machines. the brain was not designed by anyone to do anything lmao. it's just the product of billions of years of (still ongoing) random processes. there is no "right" or "wrong" thing it should be doing. it just exists

Thats exactly right! Billions of years if evolution had created incresibly complex brains- with specific mechanisms allowing us to interact with the world, adapt,identify and solve problems etc.
The thing is, as ive stated before, this specific mechanism can dysfunction- and manifest in numerous ways creating a disatvantage.
For example, since you refuse to watch the vid: in people with OCD (like myself) the problem is essentially in the error detection part of the brain. which normally allows us to identify and fix past present and future problems, becomes 'broken' and starts sticking- creating obsessive fears (present) worries (future) and ruminations (past) and compulsions aimed to temporarly relieve the anxiety.

 

[positiveloop]

sucks to have that label judge, how do you cope

Dont cope, try to identify the root cause and treat it. Be willing to suffer
Mirin iq btw

 

[mogger123]

The difference is that mental conditions are debilitating and harm the persons ability to adapt to external factors and develo. Personality quirks are just that- small differnces brought by upbringing enviorment and natural tendencies, idk how that shit works

Thats exactly right! Billions of years if evolution had created incresibly complex brains- with specific mechanisms allowing us to interact with the world, adapt,identify and solve problems etc.
The thing is, as ive stated before, this specific mechanism can dysfunction- and manifest in numerous ways creating a disatvantage.
For example, since you refuse to watch the vid: in people with OCD (like myself) the problem is essentially in the error detection part of the brain. which normally allows us to identify and fix past present and future problems, becomes 'broken' and starts sticking- creating obsessive fears (present) worries (future) and ruminations (past) and compulsions aimed to temporarly relieve the anxiety.

but that's all relative

dysfunction is also relative. being obsessive is a good trait in many ways

 

[positiveloop]

but that's all relative

dysfunction is also relative. being obsessive is a good trait in many ways

Of course.
Eveeything is an inverted U curve. Being slightly obsessive can be very useful, especially in our modern world. But when obsessiveness levels cross a line and exit the goldilock zone- its absolute ass. thats the threshold of it becoming a mental illness, and stuff like that is what causing most people to become losers.
Being able to inegrate in a positive way a previously debilitating mental condition or negative trait like neuroticisim is very hard, but it is possible. and thats how many past losers are able to escape the loser zone and start to gather momentum, but is only possible after learning how to treat the illness, tame it- and transform it to a personality trait or an ability

 

[Deleted member 19994]

balanced neurotransmitters

That is, unfortunately, a thing from the past. You can blame on the past 2 industrial revolutions if you want to.

 

[positiveloop]

That is, unfortunately, a thing from the past. You can blame on the past 2 industrial revolutions if you want to.

Defnietly achievable in our modern world, but its true that it feels almost unavoidble due to all the shit fucking it up inflamattion, enviormental toxins, agrochemicals, social media, nutritional deficiencies, lack of exercuse and sunlight etc.
Way more compplicated to be healthy than it should be

 

[Deleted member 19994]

Defnietly achievable in our modern world

And the so-known pollution is a consequence of society's unceasing demand — and worse abrupt changes are about to come.

If we really want to keep our current commodities (whilst erasing environmental toxicity), there is a no-ending list of sacrifices that the average human isn't capable to commit for (conformity, in other words).

And, quite honestly, I do not feel sorry for this society. I was left out, a little before my circumstances fueled my placement at the very bottom of the 'social ladder'.

 

[Foreverbrad]

My definition of loser is someone with a 'Failure to launch'. Someone who has currently failed the battle with himself and cannot find a way to meaningfully contribute to the lifes of his surroundings. Someone that lacks contentment and satisfaction with his lifes trajectory, yet it unable to change that. Someone who escapes reality and is unproductive. Someone who cannot generate forward momentum towards his goals, which they do not even fully know what they are in the first place. Someone who lacks responsability and purpose. Someone who is unaware of his flaws, unwilling to try and identify and treat his root problems, yet is fine continuing this way because he created a bubble of comfort. Someone who harbors negative thoughts feelings, and fails to think critically and empathetically. Someone who does not make sacrifices. Someone who is not respected by society, because there is nothing to respect about him. Someone who is unable to adapt to the circumstances.

I am torn between the answer to my question. on one hand i lean very strongly to answering no, because all of this can be caused by the various mental illnesses which exists. And a person with a well developed, balanced and functioning brain will be able to adapt and overcome the causes and events which will otherwise turn him into a loser.
On the other hand, that could be untrue. Our brains are so complex, what if there are a certain combination of external factors that by sheer 'luck' create chain effects that cause the person to react erronuesly, which in turn create even more problem the person is unequiped handeling simply due to circumstances.

Does someone who is putting their life on hold until surgery come under this definition?

I feel like it’s just a rational choice, there are a limited number of opportunities in the world and if you waste them all by not being maxxed in every way before attempting them you’ll be even more screwed.

I guess a strong distinction must be made between personal goals (looksmaxxing, gymmaxxing, surgery, stress reduction) and the socially expected goals (working and careeer, accumulating money and assets, travelling and flexing status, having kids).

The personal goals are perfectly valid and will improve one’s life situation and are feasible to achieve. But normies will consider you a loser - sad thing is they’d consider you a loser either way - whether you try to meet their expectations or not - because only results matter.

 

[positiveloop]

And the so-known pollution is a consequence of society's unceasing demand — and worse abrupt changes are about to come.

If we really want to keep our current commodities (whilst erasing environmental toxicity), there is a no-ending list of sacrifices that the average human isn't capable to commit for (conformity, in other words).

And, quite honestly, I do not feel sorry for this society. I was left out, a little before my circumstances fueled my placement at the very bottom of the 'social ladder'.

I dont really agree. There are potential alternatives and technological process could help us eliminate those issues. Also as birth rates will continue to decline earths population will eventually lower, but it is a few decades away.
I do think things would probably get worse before they get better tho.

Dont view society as one collective entity. When you personify it and harbor hatred for it its misguided and unroductive. Its a collection of individuals who simply dont care about you, because whens the last time you cared about some random member of society? But most of them are good hearted people who want to see you and others succeed. There are some incredibly frustrating elemants of our modern society, but dont give up on it. Improve your life and curate a social circle and community consisting of good humans, for your mutual benefit.
It is very simple but challenging to achieve, especially with how complicated our modern world is and all its mental burdens, so many traps you can fall into. But dont give up hope, dont cope, act. Im saying it to myself aswell

 

[Deleted member 19994]

Its a collection of individuals

There are a few exceptions (truly ugly and autistic men) who were left out from society, technically.

Improve your life and curate a social circle and community consisting of good humans, for your mutual benefit.

A doable solution for a neurotypical individual. How about a socially-impaired neurodivergent guy in his early twenties? Sure, certain achievable life-goals do exist regardless of your cognitive capabilities (see IQ and its positive correlation on socioeconomic status). Not only he severely lacks in that aspect, but he has been a long-term unemployee — never had a job nor the opportunity to get an higher-education certificate, including tradeships — as well as being reliant on his own parents/guardians.

The latter is my current case. And despite all my past and current tribulations, I haven't given up my will to live (yet).

 

[positiveloop]

Does someone who is putting their life on hold until surgery come under this definition?

What do you mean by putting your life on hold? There are many ways you can progress without surgeries, i would argue 90% of people dont need it in order yo achieve a good qualiity of life.

I feel like it’s just a rational choice, there are a limited number of opportunities in the world and if you waste them all by not being maxxed in every way before attempting them you’ll be even more screwed.

I dont agree at all. You really sound to me like you have OCD, I relate to this pattern of thought.
Which limited oppurtunities are you talking about? You need forward momentum if you're not in the place you want to be, dont depend it on external factors like surgery

I guess a strong distinction must be made between personal goals (looksmaxxing, gymmaxxing, surgery, stress reduction) and the socially expected goals (working and careeer, accumulating money and assets, travelling and flexing status, having kids).

But aren't those personal goals just a way to help achieve the socially expected goals?

The personal goals are perfectly valid and will improve one’s life situation and are feasible to achieve. But normies will consider you a loser - sad thing is they’d consider you a loser either way - whether you try to meet their expectations or not - because only results matter.

of course they are valid, and most normies nowadays participate in at least one of those. Most normies would'nt consider you a loser for doing those, they may think its unecessaraly pedantic and weird, but its still progress. Of course some people are insecure and percieve it negatively, but their opinion is irrelavant anyways.
People respect effort. They respect progress. Most people are far more understanding and empathetic on the individual level than our perception. It is only losers that categorize that are that way.
Basically, only losers judge losers, and iu shouldnt care about their opinion, because they are losersm they deserve help and empathy.

 

[wollet2]

I feel like it’s just a rational choice, there are a limited number of opportunities in the world and if you waste them all by not being maxxed in every way before attempting them you’ll be even more screwed.

your belief literally limits your opportunities even more. go out and create some instead of waiting ofr surgery lol

 

[positiveloop]

There are a few exceptions (truly ugly and autistic men) who were left out from society, technically.

Yet still there are plenty of extremely autistic and ugly men that are still cared for by people and have managed to incorporate in society.

A doable solution for a neurotypical individual. How about a socially-impaired neurodivergent guy in his early twenties? Sure, certain achievable life-goals do exist regardless of your cognitive capabilities (see IQ and its positive correlation on socioeconomic status). Not only he severely lacks in that aspect, but he has been a long-term unemployee — never had a job nor the opportunity to get an higher-education certificate, including tradeships — as well as being reliant on his own parents/guardians.

You can progress towards become more NT. you can progress towards taming your mental illnesses and transforming them into positive abilities.
You can progress towards improving your IQ and other Cognitive abilities.
the brain is so adaptible, small changes can compund over time into unbelievable changes. try to take advantage of all the information accesible and all the knowledgable people there are. Neuroplasticity is truly incredible.

You may have been dealt a shit hand, and its understandable that you may feel anger towards society and the world, but try to find the good in humanity, while also using all the negative emotions and rage and frustion as fuel for progress.

The latter is my current case. And despite all my past and current tribulations, I haven't given up my will to live (yet).

thats great, Never give up, just do it! Anything is possible! Don't ever give up! Keep grinding keep hustling, shoot for your dreams!
But seriously, keep fighting dude. Im also not in a good place, We couldn't control the unfortunate curcumstances that led us to our situation, but we can try to adapt and react towards a better, more valueble life.
The shittier the starting point - the sweeter the triumph