Can I get MSE if i have downward growth?

[Deleted member 5385]

I need room for my wisdom teeth, wider airways to feel more like a human funcionally
For looks I actually don't need fwhr , ipd and pfl but those few mm are great to see
Unfortunately I have downward growth which affected whole face and messed up harmony ( which still is decent jfl) .
I am afraid that MSE can further lenghten maxilla and give more gummy smile and more nose lenght.
Is it possible with MSE and for example facemask prevent downward growth and achieve only those few mm of forward growth or even further achieve counterclockwise rotation of entire face and decrease height of face.
Now I am thinking about MSE mainly for health and wisdom teeth but I don't want to fucked up my growth more.

Like here no downward growth was achieved and even some counterclockwise r was achieved
@Sergio-OMS @RealSurgerymax

Dr Ting if you browse this utter forum answer.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

why would it tho?
even if it does wouldn't something like ccw fix it?
I dont think it will tbh

 

[Deleted member 4797]

What is this image of?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

What is this image of?

Before and after of some MSE case

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Bumo

 

[orthochadic]

ANS seems to be taken up and forward, without any frauding as his ramus before after position are superposing.
This amount of superior repositionning is huge for the amount of overall mouvement.
If we could find a true way of opening the protraction window (more than 3 months), we could legit get facial upswings.

 

[Deleted member 6892]

Idk downward growth fucked my face up hardcore I thought MSE would achieve full CCW in my blue pill day now I’m just trynna orb max since I can’t change it

 

[RealSurgerymax]

You’re worrying about things that probably don’t matter (Negligible downward movement from MSE) and expecting things that won’t happen (increase IPD will not be noticeable either and increase PFL just won’t not happen at all.)

As far as room for your third molars.... I really don’t see why that’s important either.

You may be getting MSE for the wrong reasons. It can increase Inter-Zygomatic width but ultimately this is for transverse palatal expansion.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Idk downward growth fucked my face up hardcore I thought MSE would achieve full CCW in my blue pill day now I’m just trynna orb max since I can’t change it

Same i thought MSE can give that what was in that gif but now i know its harder than I thought

 

[Deleted member 4797]

Before and after of some MSE case

Is it an under 20 case? MSE is so inconsistent with what people claim it will do. I want it for CCW of my cheekbones and make them higher set a few mm, but I wont risk 10k dollars for a 'maybe', which is what it seems to be right now. Way too much conflicting information.

The only guarantees right now seem to be +mouth width, +nostril width and +zygo width.

 

[Deleted member 5634]

Is it an under 20 case? MSE is so inconsistent with what people claim it will do. I want it for CCW of my cheekbones and make them higher set a few mm, but I wont risk 10k dollars for a 'maybe', which is what it seems to be right now. Way too much conflicting information.

The only guarantees right now seem to be +mouth width, +nostril width and +zygo width.

Is your mouth to thin? Thats the only reason ill do it tbh

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Is it an under 20 case? MSE is so inconsistent with what people claim it will do. I want it for CCW of my cheekbones and make them higher set a few mm, but I wont risk 10k dollars for a 'maybe', which is what it seems to be right now. Way too much conflicting information.

The only guarantees right now seem to be +mouth width, +nostril width and +zygo width.

No its 22 years old case
Sergio and Ting said something about ccw is not hard to achieve but idk if they thought about ccw rotation of upper jaw or whole maxilla- nose, orbitals and zygos?

 

[orthochadic]

No its 22 years old case
Sergio and Ting said something about ccw is not hard to achieve but idk if they thought about ccw rotation of upper jaw or whole maxilla- nose, orbitals and zygos?

During downward growth, the lower the structure in th maxilla, the more it collapse like a chewing gum. CCWising a maxilla means reshaping the whole maxilla, but obviously the philtrum and ans will move more than the orbital portion. But everythingh should be in motion.

 

[SPFromNY914]

Idk downward growth fucked my face up hardcore I thought MSE would achieve full CCW in my blue pill day now I’m just trynna orb max since I can’t change it

Wait, what happened to you exactly when you had MSE?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Wait, what happened to you exactly when you had MSE?

He didn't he already has downward growth which of course fucked up , melt your face midface etc.

 

[SPFromNY914]

He didn't he already has downward growth which of course fucked up , melt your face midface etc.

Damn I have downward growth and plan on mse+fm pulling, you think it will mess me up more?

 

[Deleted member 6892]

Wait, what happened to you exactly when you had MSE?

I didn’t get MSE yet but I naively believed for a long time that it will eliminate all of my downward growth and now I see it’s not the case

 

[orthochadic]

lower maxilla moves more than the orbital portion that moves more than the nose dorsum.
All the peoples who got mse in this forum should have kept protracting. But instead they remove their mse + facemask .
Also with hgh and or relaxin the results would be astonishing:

-philtrum bend up and forward
-the maxilla cavity entrance would be more closed vertically as the ans is taken up and forward
-the cheeks would be taken up and forward closer to the nose dorsum
-And eventually the nose dorsum would go higher.

This is what we are supposed to get from facemask + hgh + elastin and may get in 5 years of this process if worn 24/7.

Sutures have relaxin receptors as well as bone and hgh make it faster to remodel and construct.

365 days * 5 = 1825 fuckin days.
We can get 2 mm in 90 days.
So in (1825*2)/90 we would get 40 mm jfl, so imagin with relaxin and hgh how fast it would take (if you don't believe in relaxin then just think about hgh alone).
Maxilla paleolithic norms ours in less than 5 years. If any orthdentist is here allowing is to stay quite symmetrical it would ne feasible.

It means in 5 years, the lowest and forward part lf your maxilla (portion that moved the most right at the upper incisor level), will be moven 4 cm up and forward, with facemask+ mse at the dr Ting growth rate.

If i had enough money now, i would get an MSE ASAP and use hgh and relaxin,
knowing that even if it fails, modified oblique lefort 3 for the cheeks, and lefort 1 over the ans (with nose carthilage inferior trimming) for the nose .

Money is the ONLY reason. Science has already given almost everything about face looksmaxxing.

So the 1 million question is: how to keep disrupting the sutures. Or maybe relaxin is enough ?

 

[SPFromNY914]

I didn’t get MSE yet but I naively believed for a long time that it will eliminate all of my downward growth and now I see it’s not the case

Why not MSE+FM+Msdo/Imdo then Bimax? Or is that too much?

 

[SPFromNY914]

lower maxilla moves more than the orbital portion that moves more than the nose dorsum.
All the peoples who got mse in this forum should have kept protracting. But instead they remove their mse + facemask .
Also with hgh and or relaxin the results would be astonishing:

-philtrum bend up and forward
-the maxilla cavity entrance would be more closed vertically as the ans is taken up and forward
-the cheeks would be taken up and forward closer to the nose dorsum
-And eventually the nose dorsum would go higher.

This is what we are supposed to get from facemask + hgh + elastin and may get in 5 years of this process if worn 24/7.

Sutures have relaxin receptors as well as bone and hgh make it faster to remodel and construct.

365 days * 5 = 1825 fuckin days.
We can get 2 mm in 90 days.
So in (1825*2)/90 we would get 40 mm jfl, so imagin with relaxin and hgh how fast it would take (if you don't believe in relaxin then just think about hgh alone).
Maxilla paleolithic norms ours in less than 5 years. If any orthdentist is here allowing is to stay quite symmetrical it would ne feasible.

It means in 5 years, the lowest and forward part lf your maxilla (portion that moved the most right at the upper incisor level), will be moven 4 cm up and forward, with facemask+ mse at the dr Ting growth rate.

If i had enough money now, i would get an MSE ASAP and use hgh and relaxin,
knowing that even if it fails, modified oblique lefort 3 for the cheeks, and lefort 1 over the ans (with nose carthilage inferior trimming) for the nose .

Money is the ONLY reason. Science has already given almost everything about face looksmaxxing.

So the 1 million question is: how to keep disrupting the sutures. Or maybe relaxin is enough ?

Can you pls make a thread about HGH combined with MSE+FM it will help a lot of us out, appreciate it man

 

[orthochadic]

Can you pls make a thread about HGH combined with MSE+FM it will help a lot of us out, appreciate it man

a giy just made a gigathread talking the same fuckin shit. Gonna post on his.

 

[orthochadic]

The thread link https://looksmax.org/threads/mse-msdo-fm.220694/
@SPFromNY914

 

[clavicel]

So the 1 million question is: how to keep disrupting the sutures. Or maybe relaxin is enough ?

Why not repeatedly apply MSE, get the suture split and then stop the expansion, once the suture closes repeat until desired width is reached.

 

[orthochadic]

Why not repeatedly apply MSE, get the suture split and then stop the expansion, once the suture closes repeat until desired width is reached.

i thought about it, but will it last for 5 years ?
Also retard talked about just turning up and down the screw once the expansion is done to keep disturbing the suture.
Dunno how both are legit.

 

[Deleted member 4797]

Is your mouth to thin? Thats the only reason ill do it tbh

Its a little narrow but doesn't throw off my facial harmony, it fits me well enough. My cheekbones and infraorbital rims have sunk lower this last year at 22, from mouth breathing at night, so I want them back up and forward like they used to be, + added width is a welcomed bonus.

 

[Deleted member 5634]

Its a little narrow but doesn't throw off my facial harmony, it fits me well enough. My cheekbones and infraorbital rims have sunk lower this last year at 22, from mouth breathing at night, so I want them back up and forward like they used to be, + added width is a welcomed bonus.

I see, i also cant keep my mouth close at night for some reason, i use to sleep on the floor an that kind of worked but its a little bit uncomfortable

 

[RichardwillImprove]

Its a little narrow but doesn't throw off my facial harmony, it fits me well enough. My cheekbones and infraorbital rims have sunk lower this last year at 22, from mouth breathing at night, so I want them back up and forward like they used to be, + added width is a welcomed bonus.

Mse will probably fix ur mouth breathing at night problem.

 

[Deleted member 4797]

Mse will probably fix ur mouth breathing at night problem.

Actually I have managed to fix it now, through mewing in the day time. It took about a week to train my tongue to stay on the roof when relaxed and not thinking about it, but I dont wake up with a dry mouth anymore so I presume its worked. Unfortunately, the damage to my cheekbones and infraorbitals is already done tho

 

[RichardwillImprove]

Actually I have managed to fix it now, through mewing in the day time. It took about a week to train my tongue to stay on the roof when relaxed and not thinking about it, but I dont wake up with a dry mouth anymore so I presume its worked. Unfortunately, the damage to my cheekbones and infraorbitals is already done tho

Damn man u think face mask can correct ur problem. Also doesnt facemask make under eye exposure worse since its pulling down and forward. Dont wanna have sceleral show after doing it.

 

[Stare]

MSE has been shown to reduce significantly the height of the alveolar ridge so it should help you shorten your midface.

 

[Deleted member 5634]

Damn man u think face mask can correct ur problem. Also doesnt facemask make under eye exposure worse since its pulling down and forward. Dont wanna have sceleral show after doing it.

There was actually some autistic device that mike mew used to advice people to wear at night to keep your mouth shut

 

[Deleted member 4797]

Damn man u think face mask can correct ur problem. Also doesnt facemask make under eye exposure worse since its pulling down and forward. Dont wanna have sceleral show after doing it.

No clue, I'll look into it man, thanks.

 

[RichardwillImprove]

There was actually some autistic device that mike mew used to advice people to wear at night to keep your mouth shut

I dont breath other than through my nose. I just wanted to know if I use facemask will I end up with undereye scleral show.

 

[spark]

ANS seems to be taken up and forward, without any frauding as his ramus before after position are superposing.
This amount of superior repositionning is huge for the amount of overall mouvement.
If we could find a true way of opening the protraction window (more than 3 months), we could legit get facial upswings.

What if you did several MSEs and expanded very slowly (1 turn in 36 or 48 hours?)