Communism vs Capitalism arguments

[GuyFromSingapore]

- Has there ever been anyone in the whole of history who woke up in the morning and decided "I'm going to work for free for everyone to serve them in order to improve the quality of their lives"?

And yet Communist theory says "workers shouldn't work hard for less pay while owners get all the profit" i.e. "why am I doing something for free?" the same sentiment as Capitalism

- why are people forced into labour in Communist countries? Is not the rationale "be productive, don't be unproductive"? The very same thing as Capitalism?

There are exceptions/paradoxes to Capitalism such as

"government subsidized education system to improve IQ of citizens that would contribute directly to economic growth and innovation"

- suppose there's a degree that pays very highly that has no use to human advancement (*cough* business management *cough*) vs a degree that catapults humans to the next frontier and civilization type (that is Physics)

Here's where Capitalism fails, but that is just Capitalism applied wrongly not the inherent failure of Capitalism itself

- freehandouts, that's parasitism, living off others while they suffer

Socialism will breed laziness

Investment and shareholding is the same thing BUT with profits, "I give you some money for you to finance your business in turn for you to give me some of your rewards for helping you out" but is he really helping anyone out? He's helping him in short term so that he can profit in long term.

Would one market type guy help another market type guy out when he is his competitor? Like a chef sharing his secret recipe with another chef?

- free bank loans? If banks gave out free bank loans won't that increase businesses?

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

- Has there ever been anyone in the whole of history who woke up in the morning and decided "I'm going to work for free for everyone to serve them in order to improve the quality of their lives"?

Volunteers, philanthropists, enthusiasts

- why are people forced into labour in Communist countries? Is not the rationale "be productive, don't be unproductive"? The very same thing as Capitalism?

Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology and current within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society.[3][4][5] Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,[6] and the state.[7][8][9]

How can there be a communist state if communism by definition assumed the abolition of the existence of the state? The question you asked is based on the false notion that there can be such a thing as a 'communist state'. Moreover, providing jobs for citizens does not mean forced labour. Citizens work for the common good in return for access to public services: roads, health, education, energy supply, housing, telecommunications, etc. Nothing by force - if someone does not want to live in the community, they can always leave it and live on their own.

Here's where Capitalism fails, but that is just Capitalism applied wrongly not the inherent failure of Capitalism itself

"It wasn't real capitalism" argument

Socialism will breed laziness

Charges against socialism are often contradictory things, and its comical critics can't decide whether socialism means forced labor or a lazy life on benefits unemployment.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Among the postulates of the communists there is a postulate of collectivization of agriculture, i.e. combining small farms into large cooperatives. Why is collectivization useful for agriculture? Here are some reasons:

1) Small farms have a problem with obtaining capital for modern agrotechnics. Thanks to the pooling of the budget, funds for modernization could be obtained faster. This would reverse the debt trend of our agricultural sector.

2) Large collective farms could more easily establish cooperation with the agri-food industry, which is easier, for purely administrative reasons, to establish cooperation with a few large entities than with many small entities.

3) Technical economies of scale. Some types of machines or techniques can be used effectively only above a certain scale of production. If a combine harvester allows, for example, 250 hectares to be processed during the season, it makes no sense for 10 25-hectare farms to buy 10 combine harvesters, one for each. The same is the case with the possibility of starting secondary production, such as, for example, biogas plants, which operate the more efficiently, the greater the amount of agricultural waste feeds them.

4) Easier control. More concentration means fewer companies to audit. This allows for more efficient checks to verify, for example, whether the allocated investment substitute has been spent in accordance with the target stated in the application, or whether the activity complies with certain health and environmental safety standards.

5) Abolition of pathological labor relations. The landowners and kulak farms use very poorly paid hired workers working for pennies in inhumanly difficult conditions. A victory for the socialized economy in the countryside is essential to finally end this type of barbaric social relationship.

6) Improving working conditions. Thanks to collectivization, it is possible to introduce a division of labor and a shift system in farms. This helps to reduce farmers' fatigue, especially during the harvest season. In addition, it makes it possible to replace it, for example, for the duration of the disease.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Both communism and capitalism is retarded. Both degrades the human spirit and are against human nature. We need to find a middle path.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Both communism and capitalism is retarded. Both degrades the human spirit and are against human nature. We need to find a middle path.

You haven't addressed any of my arguments.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

You haven't addressed any of my arguments.

Why should I?

 

[Daqirius]

Both communism and capitalism is retarded. Both degrades the human spirit and are against human nature. We need to find a middle path.

Facts communism and capitalism are a kike psyop

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Why should I?

Learn to argue you cocky asshole

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Learn to argue you cocky asshole

No i won't. Arguments are futile. What matters is what happens in real world. Stop arguing on an incel forum about the merits of socialism and actually start building a socialist society.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

No arguments are futile. What matters is what happens in real world. Stop arguing on an internet forum about the merits of socialism and actually start building a socialist society.

Sorry, I forgot that the intellectual level of most of this forum, including yours, is low, so you are not able to negate what I wrote with facts and logic

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Sorry, I forgot that the intellectual level of most of this forum, including yours, is low, so you are not able to negate what I wrote with facts and logic

Empirical evidence is all that matters. And the empirical evidence is that capitalism has failed.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Empirical evidence is all that matters. And the empirical evidence is that capitalism has failed.

So why are you arguing with me? I also say that capitalism has failed... with the difference that I give specific solutions. On the other hand, fallacious arguments such as (Argumentum ad naturam) or conspiracy theories are not a valid argument.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

So why are you arguing with me?

I'm not arguing with you. You are the one who replied to me, retard.

I also say that capitalism has failed...

And? I don't defend capitalism.

with the difference that I give specific solutions.

Solutions which doesn't work in real life.

On the other hand, conspiracy theories are not a valid argument.

Consipracy theories are more successful and popular than socialism is. JFL

 

[Milosz]

I come from a country where there was communism and everyone here hates it. You'd probably get punched in the mouth for glorifying communism. Think about why

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Facts communism and capitalism are a kike psyop

If the 20th century had anything to teach us, it was what you didn't do your history homework on. Anti-Semitic rhetoric is part of diverting attention from the class struggle to the fascist concept of race struggle - only the capitalist class of all countries benefits, whether the capitalists has slanted eyes, a crooked nose or black skin.

Solutions which doesn't work in real life.

Prove it.

Consipracy theories are more successful and popular than socialism is. JFL

And you are clearly too stupid to notice that it is in the interest of the elite to spread nonsense like "the earth is flat", "the European Union is ruled by communists", "the holocaust did not happen", "climate change is not real", "LGBT is an anti-white ideology". The popularity of this shit only proves the failure of the education system

I come from a country where there was communism and everyone here hates it. You'd probably get punched in the mouth for glorifying communism. Think about why

I do not care. Prove me wrong in the arguments I gave at the very beginning

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Prove it.

It's you who have to prove your solutions work since you are the one espousing something radical.

And you are clearly too stupid to notice that it is in the interest of the elite to spread nonsense like "the earth is flat"

And you call me a conspiracy theorist. Muh it's elites.

Also jfl at thinking elites are spreading any conspiracy theory about earth being flat. It's just a meme movement. Barely anyone with IQ over 80 takes it seriously.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

It's you who have to prove your solutions work since you are the one espousing something radical.

I've already done that, now it's your turn to explain what's wrong with it.

And you call me a conspiracy theorist. Muh it's elites.

Also jfl at thinking elites are spreading any conspiracy theory about earth being flat. It's just a meme movement. Barely anyone with IQ over 80 takes it seriously.

The difference between conspiracy theories and actual conspiracies is a matter of proof. Just a reminder, it's usually right-wingers who believe in religious nonsense like flat earth, anti-vaccine, anti-LGBT, anti-evolutionism, climate change denial and so on

 

[Deleted member 17872]

I've already done that, now it's your turn to explain what's wrong with it.

you didn't prove shit

The difference between conspiracy theories and actual conspiracies is a matter of proof. Just a reminder, it's usually right-wingers who believe in religious nonsense like flat earth, anti-vaccine, anti-LGBT, anti-evolutionism, climate change denial and so on

View attachment 2076575

1) i'm not a right winger
2) nobody believes in flat earth.
3) i despise Elon Musk
4) Communists are anti-lgbt as fuck. Soviet Union considered homosexuality as a mental illness. So does China.

 

[Deleted member 19865]

Communism is less efficient than capitalism, but unchecked capitalism is very dangerous and can completely subvert governments, as it can unintentionally place governing power into the hands of elites via monopolies, especailly when it comes to complex products and that require immense capital to start.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

you didn't prove shit

explain why

1) i'm not a right winger

Who are you? Define yourself. I'm curious

2) nobody believes in flat earth.

The Flat Earth Society

To 11 million Brazilians, the Earth is flat

Only Two-Thirds Of American Millennials Believe The Earth Is Round

4) Communists are anti-lgbt as fuck.

New Peoples Army recognizes same-sex marriage

The Queer Insurrection and Liberation Army

Cubans vote on gay rights - Amendments to Family Code will allow same-sex marriage, gay adoptions, and surrogacy

Soviet Union considered homosexuality as a mental illness. So does China.

Communism is less efficient than capitalism

Because?

 

[Deleted member 22253]

explain why


Who are you? Define yourself. I'm curious


The Flat Earth Society

To 11 million Brazilians, the Earth is flat

Only Two-Thirds Of American Millennials Believe The Earth Is Round

View attachment 2076587


View attachment 2076589

New Peoples Army recognizes same-sex marriage

The Queer Insurrection and Liberation Army

Cubans vote on gay rights - Amendments to Family Code will allow same-sex marriage, gay adoptions, and surrogacy


View attachment 2076600

Because?

Dumbass malding over politics on a looksmaxxing forum. It is so fucking beyond over. Also, economic calculation problem mogs your entire ideology you no true scotsman retard

 

[Deleted member 19865]

explain why


Who are you? Define yourself. I'm curious


The Flat Earth Society

To 11 million Brazilians, the Earth is flat

Only Two-Thirds Of American Millennials Believe The Earth Is Round

View attachment 2076587


View attachment 2076589

New Peoples Army recognizes same-sex marriage

The Queer Insurrection and Liberation Army

Cubans vote on gay rights - Amendments to Family Code will allow same-sex marriage, gay adoptions, and surrogacy


View attachment 2076600

Because?

Economics

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Dumbass malding over politics on a looksmaxxing forum. It is so fucking beyond over. Also, economic calculation problem mogs your entire ideology you no true scotsman retard

The proponents of socialism argue that the economic calculation problem is overstated and that there are alternative ways to allocate resources efficiently in a planned economy. For example, some proponents argue that it is possible to use mathematical models to simulate market processes and determine prices and resource allocation decisions. Additionally, others argue that a planned economy could use other criteria, such as labor time or social welfare, to allocate resources instead of market prices.

How Capitalist Giants Use Socialist Cybernetic Planning

Economics

Socialism is just better, scientifically

 

[Daqirius]

Dumbass malding over politics on a looksmaxxing forum. It is so fucking beyond over. Also, economic calculation problem mogs your entire ideology you no true scotsman retard

This dude is an overweight balding cuck from Poland who types long paragraphs thinking anybody has the time to read it.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

This dude is an overweight balding cuck from Poland who types long paragraphs thinking anybody has the time to read it.

Ask @alriodai who I am

 

[Deleted member 22253]

The proponents of socialism argue that the economic calculation problem is overstated and that there are alternative ways to allocate resources efficiently in a planned economy. For example, some proponents argue that it is possible to use mathematical models to simulate market processes and determine prices and resource allocation decisions. Additionally, others argue that a planned economy could use other criteria, such as labor time or social welfare, to allocate resources instead of market prices.

How Capitalist Giants Use Socialist Cybernetic Planning


Socialism is just better, scientifically

good job copy pasting somebody elses article you cuck

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

good job copy pasting somebody elses article you cuck

You're the cuckold defending the billionaires and getting nothing out of it

 

[Deleted member 22253]

You're the cuckold defending the billionaires and getting nothing out of it

Your whole ideology was created by a rich kike incel lmao

 

[Daqirius]

Ask @alriodai who I am

https://www.livegore.com/40944/neuseeland-christchurch?show=40944#q40944

 

[alriodai]

This dude is an overweight balding cuck from Poland who types long paragraphs thinking anybody has the time to read it.

i seen his face, hes not overweight or bald or a cuck jfl, hes a cute no homo

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Your whole ideology was created by a rich kike incel lmao

Yes, I am an agent of the world government and I want to turn you into commie femboys

 

[Deleted member 19865]

Socialism is just better, scientifically

Fucking kek I don't give a fuck about what some retarded breadtuber has to say. Basic economic theory proves that a market economy is vastly superior in terms of efficiency than a command economy. This shouldn't have to be explained. If you wanna learn how economics works than learn it yourself. If you suck at math then you won't be able to figure it out. Good luck.

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

Fucking kek I don't give a fuck about what some retarded breadtuber has to say. Basic economic theory proves that a market economy is vastly superior in terms of efficiency than a command economy. This shouldn't have to be explained. If wanna learn how economics works than learn it yourself. If you suck at math then you won't be able to figure it out. Good luck.

I wonder how naive you have to be to believe in American democracy and capitalism, which is such a good system that it must be carried to other nations by means of bombs dropped on apartment blocks, schools and hospitals.

Let me just remind you that Russia, from a backward agricultural country, caught up with the West in just a few decades, becoming a nuclear superpower capable of traveling into space.

 

[Deleted member 19865]

I wonder how naive you have to be to believe in American democracy and capitalism,

I don't.

Let me just remind you that Russia, from a backward agricultural country, caught up with the West in just a few decades, becoming a nuclear superpower capable of traveling into space.

The USSR ultimately lost due to their inability to keep up with the west in the computation industry, as their command economy failed to adequately develop it.

 

[Daqirius]

I wonder how naive you have to be to believe in American democracy and capitalism, which is such a good system that it must be carried to other nations by means of bombs dropped on apartment blocks, schools and hospitals.

Let me just remind you that Russia, from a backward agricultural country, caught up with the West in just a few decades, becoming a nuclear superpower capable of traveling into space.

Thoughts on china?

 

[Lord-Arthur_17]

The USSR ultimately lost due to their inability to keep up with the west in the computation industry, as their command economy failed to adequately develop it.

Many factors contributed to the collapse of the USSR. The Soviet Union collapsed primarily because of revisionism. Khrushchev and his successors gradually restored capitalism. Therefore, it is a pity that Stalin did not live longer - he would have made one more purge in the party, purging it of traitors.

Other causes include exhausting wars like the one in Afghanistan and the earlier one with the Axis powers. Western countries were in a much better position, because they had been better developed for centuries (they overthrew feudalism faster), had reserves in the form of overseas colonies, and didn't suffer as much war damage.

Thoughts on china?

Modern China has a system very similar to the early USSR - the so-called New Economic Policy under Lenin. It is also worth mentioning that China would not have come this far if not for Mao Zedong's policies: