Critiquing the Collagen Maxxing Guide (Part 1)

[Deleted member 25438]

As you may know, the collagen maxxing guide here is pretty popular. I thought it was interesting due to the fact that it proposed novel treatments + seemed to be empirically backed. The first thing that caught my eye was what was supposed to be the "main goal" of collagen maxxing, which is to increase the relative frequency of collagen 1.

"The main goal should be to find exogenous ways to stimulate type I collagen synthesis since it’s the most abundant collagen found in the skin, and it is the most significant one we lose as we age."

Many people seem to take this relation to be causal, that because your body produces less collagen 1 as you get older, it must be the reason for shittier skin. Some people take this even further, thinking that even controlling for age, people with shittier skin have less collagen 1. I will show that this is not true. The way you get to answer the question of whether lack of collagen 1 is genuinely the cause of shitty skin and not just incidental is by looking at collagen density cross-sectionally, ie: taking areas of the body that are sun-exposed (and thus have shittier skin) and comparing collagen 1 levels of those areas to areas that are not sun exposed. The study below does this, and the findings may surprise you.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15414447
"Facial (sun-exposed) skin showed a tendency to maintain the expression of type I procollagen mRNA and intracellular protein (detected by PIC antibody) even after the 60s to over 80s Figure 3c. We also demonstrated that the number of fibroblasts expressing type I procollagen mRNA in facial 40- and 50-y-old skins was significantly higher than that of 20- and 30-y-old skins"

This means that the frequency of collagen 1 was the same for face 7 as it was for face 1, and it was higher for faces 3-4 as compared to faces 1-2. How is this possible if the lack of collagen 1 is causal for shitty skin? The decline of collagen 1 production as we age seems to be driven by areas that are not photoaged rather than areas that are.

In summary, it's unlikely that collagen 1 is the cause of your skin getting worse as you age, and its basically impossible that collagen 1 is the reason that any given person's skin is worse than the other if they are the same age. When @Cope told people to collagen 1 max, they might have actually been making their skin worse! I might go through the rest of the post to look at other proposed causes and solutions to shitty skin, but if its anything like this I assume other parts are also severely flawed and could mislead users.

 

[Crusile]

Tretinoin debunked #2

I found a good explanation on how tretinoin ruins your skin Today, I went to my first ever aesthetician appointment to formulate a good routine for myself. My jaw dropped when she told me that I should take tret out of my routine. She said she can always tell when someone has been using it...

looksmax.org

Overly collagenated skin with epidermal hyperplasia kind of looks like that - like, I dunno, a knuckle or elbow. It will be shiny and somewhat dense (yet not voluminous)

 

[Deleted member 25438]

Tretinoin debunked #2

I found a good explanation on how tretinoin ruins your skin Today, I went to my first ever aesthetician appointment to formulate a good routine for myself. My jaw dropped when she told me that I should take tret out of my routine. She said she can always tell when someone has been using it...

looksmax.org

Overly collagenated skin with epidermal hyperplasia kind of looks like that - like, I dunno, a knuckle or elbow. It will be shiny and somewhat dense (yet not voluminous)

Interesting. Tretinoin can still theoretically work because it increases both collagen I and collagen III, and it increases collagen III by a greater amount (2.77 vs 2.48). But yeah I would be wary of the long-term effects of artificially pumping both up.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26578346/

 

[Deleted member 25438]

@TRUE_CEL can we remove that guide from BoTB? it's clearly filled with misinfo imo.

 

[Gengar]

@TRUE_CEL can we remove that guide from BoTB? it's clearly filled with misinfo imo.

I just moderate Ratings, my friend. I did not put it there. ):

 

[looksseg]

So what would be the cause of skin getting worse as we age?

 

[king_bandon]

Can you tldr this? Is retinol good or bad

 

[looksseg]

And what’s the trait in skin that shows you’re older?

As part from wrinkles, since even many people without it looks older

 

[looksseg]

Can you tldr this? Is retinol good or bad

Yes

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

So what would be the cause of skin getting worse as we age?

Fat pads = everything for aging.

And you can't stop the decline. It's game over. Accept that life ends after 25.

 

[looksseg]

Fat pads = everything for aging.

And you can't stop the decline. It's game over. Accept that life ends after 25.

Fat pad just helps to avoid aging, as it holds the skin

But doesn’t mean that it is what defines bad skin

 

[Cope]

You're overanalyzing my post.

The products and practices I mentioned in that thread increase multiple types of collagen, not just type 1.

I might go through the rest of the post to look at other proposed causes and solutions to shitty skin, but if its anything like this I assume other parts are also severely flawed and could mislead users.

I will rebuttal and destroy all your arguments, I'm the site's poster child you peasant

Nah but in all seriousness this was a high IQ thread.