Day trading futures

nulll

nulll

bitter and lonely
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anyone on this forum actually make money from day trading futures? seems impossible
 
not futures but forex yes
 
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julian111 said:
have u heard of futures prop firms? seems like a scam but im using one rn and im at least profitable
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depends of what prop but imo futures prop firms are more stable than forex prop firms
Futures proprietary trading firms must adhere to the regulations implemented by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA)
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Some regulators find that questionable, and it is possible that in the future new legislation will demand Forex prop firms be regulated in a similar fashion to Forex brokers. But for now, prop firms for the most part manage to avoid regulations and still manage to stay within the bounds of the law.
Click to expand...
 
qxtwz7854 said:
depends of what prop but imo futures prop firms are more stable than forex prop firms
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using topstep rn it says u need to make 3k to get funded im at 2.5k rn but u cant keep the 3k after u reach it so seems kind bs
 
julian111 said:
seems impossible
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high competition, which includes automated advanced 'trading bots' made by high iq math nerds whom get hired by blackrock to make these algorythm trade systems
 
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eduardkoopman said:
high competition, which includes automated advanced 'trading bots' made by high iq math nerds whom get hired by blackrock to make these algorythm trade systems
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bro i just use a simple momentum trading strategy and my wr is 80% rn so idk what the bots are doing
 
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julian111 said:
anyone on this forum actually make money from day trading futures? seems impossible
Click to expand...
Yeah it is impossible. Day trading is pure gambling. You need to be so patient with the markets and never risk money you could afford to lose (lose 100% of it).

You should see the research teams of Short Term trading hedge funds. That's where all the geniuses work. And ironically, Short Term trading strategies still work out less profitable than longer time horizons, despite seeming way more elaborated.

I'm not talking about market making or HFT trading. I'm talking about day-trading or "swing-trading". Short term is a place where you'd need tons of technology and algorithms to make your strategy fully systematic. Longer term, you can get away with a bit of discretion, but ultimately, time and human emotions take people out. I surely am no exception.
 
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julian111 said:
bro i just use a simple momentum trading strategy and my wr is 80% rn so idk what the bots are doing
Click to expand...
Based momentum trader. Nice to hear you have a defined strategy too. But 80% WR seems way too high. Seems like your short vol and using a strat which will lead to massive drawdown (unrecoverable type DD). My WR is like 15-25%.

It doesn't matter how often you win or how often you lose. Literally all that matters is how much you make when you win and how much you lose when you lose.

Sky is NOT the limit; but 0 is the floor. The concept of asymmetric leverage lends prescience to the fact that when a trade is winning, and your unrealized P&L is positive, you have access to more money (leverage) out of nowhere.

Taking small profits seems viable. (I used to do Excel sheets saying I could turn $1000 into $1,000,000 in a year if I just make x% per day. A very small %, which seemed reasonable). But that's the worst possible way to trade.

You always want to be long vol, because you're trading to capture trends, nothing more. Momentum breakout entries are top tier. It sounds so simple but it's what's proven.

Do not buy the dip. Buy the HIGH, set a tight stoploss and enjoy the ride. If you want to "nurse your position", you should do so. The trend is your friend, it's your opportunity. There's no guilt in losing 90-95% of your trades. It's smart - you've no control over the market.

Technical analysis isn't entirely bullshit. Trend analysis however, is the real deal.


I showed what I used to get into SOL to turn $5,000 into over $100,000 in months. I simply used a 200D moving average line. That's what Paul Tudor Jones used. Price crossed above the line, I bought; cross below, I sold. I kept ensuring I had a position on, sold when the price crossed below the MA again. In November the market took off, and I just enjoyed the ride.
 
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Seth Walsh said:
Based momentum trader. Nice to hear you have a defined strategy too. But 80% WR seems way too high. Seems like your short vol and using a strat which will lead to massive drawdown (unrecoverable type DD). My WR is like 15-25%.

It doesn't matter how often you win or how often you lose. Literally all that matters is how much you make when you win and how much you lose when you lose.

Sky is NOT the limit; but 0 is the floor. The concept of asymmetric leverage lends prescience to the fact that when a trade is winning, and your unrealized P&L is positive, you have access to more money (leverage) out of nowhere.

Taking small profits seems viable. (I used to do Excel sheets saying I could turn $1000 into $1,000,000 in a year if I just make x% per day. A very small %, which seemed reasonable). But that's the worst possible way to trade.

You always want to be long vol, because you're trading to capture trends, nothing more. Momentum breakout entries are top tier. It sounds so simple but it's what's proven.

Do not buy the dip. Buy the HIGH, set a tight stoploss and enjoy the ride. If you want to "nurse your position", you should do so. The trend is your friend, it's your opportunity. There's no guilt in losing 90-95% of your trades. It's smart - you've no control over the market.

Technical analysis isn't entirely bullshit. Trend analysis however, is the real deal.


I showed what I used to get into SOL to turn $5,000 into over $100,000 in months. I simply used a 200D moving average line. That's what Paul Tudor Jones used. Price crossed above the line, I bought; cross below, I sold. I kept ensuring I had a position on, sold when the price crossed below the MA again. In November the market took off, and I just enjoyed the ride.
Click to expand...
1709040332143


so aim to increase the gap between avg winning and avg losing? NQ btw
 
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julian111 said:
View attachment 2771250

so aim to increase the gap between avg winning and avg losing?
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Cut your losses tight. Let your winners ride. Your win rate will be decided by exactly that.

But I have noticed, top traders have lower win rates because they are not selling their positions quickly when in profit. Instead, they'll accept they were wrong when the market moves against them, and sell losing positions. If the market moves with them, they'll try capture the full extent of the trend, with some measure to take them out of the trade, like a moving stoploss, average true range stoploss or whenever the trend collapses/reverts x%. But the point being, there is no set profit target.

Markets are not efficient. Crypto markets CERTAINLY aren't. Markets generally always seem to just go up (due to unlimited QE and debt). So trading with a long bias is smart. You need to treat your trading account like an experiment. If you're trading to make quick money that you want to withdraw as income, you'll lose.

Essentially, all markets are just the behaviours of all participants etched-into, and reflected in the price movements and trends. People are not patient or willing to let up time without payoff; that could be another reason why long term trend traders are so successful.

Also you never know what market will pop off, nor the direction. We know cryptos are all highly correlated and have an extreme long vol, and long directionality bias. I chose SOL over other coins because of it's higher volatility - and, I want to make as much money in the market as I can.


But if I were to seriously step up my trading game, I'd trade different asset classes and find all the markets I could that:

  • Have a tendency to trend over time in a direction
  • Are uncorrelated to one another (for example I could be winning on a short NATGAS trade, whilst winning on a long BTC trade)
  • Have predictable volatility (if it could be predicted through macro factors or have event-driven vol, even better)
  • Then I'd just need to set up a system that limits position sizes but follows a simple trend following rule, so it'd be fully systematic


TLDR: A lot of retail trader's problems are that they take profits on positions too early, and enter too many new positions. Your "position entry" doesn't need to be masterful in it's intricacy, but there should be an objectively defined reason why your entering a position, and that's void of emotion, purely based on the risk/reward potential of entering.
 
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Seth Walsh said:
Cut your losses tight. Let your winners ride. Your win rate will be decided by exactly that.

But I have noticed, top traders have lower win rates because they are not selling their positions quickly when in profit. Instead, they'll accept they were wrong when the market moves against them, and sell losing positions. If the market moves with them, they'll try capture the full extent of the trend, with some measure to take them out of the trade, like a moving stoploss, average true range stoploss or whenever the trend collapses/reverts x%. But the point being, there is no set profit target.

Markets are not efficient. Crypto markets CERTAINLY aren't. Markets generally always seem to just go up (due to unlimited QE and debt). So trading with a long bias is smart. You need to treat your trading account like an experiment. If you're trading to make quick money that you want to withdraw as income, you'll lose.

Essentially, all markets are just the behaviours of all participants etched-into, and reflected in the price movements and trends. People are not patient or willing to let up time without payoff; that could be another reason why long term trend traders are so successful.

Also you never know what market will pop off, nor the direction. We know cryptos are all highly correlated and have an extreme long vol, and long directionality bias. I chose SOL over other coins because of it's higher volatility - and, I want to make as much money in the market as I can.


But if I were to seriously step up my trading game, I'd trade different asset classes and find all the markets I could that:

  • Have a tendency to trend over time in a direction
  • Are uncorrelated to one another (for example I could be winning on a short NATGAS trade, whilst winning on a long BTC trade)
  • Have predictable volatility (if it could be predicted through macro factors or have event-driven vol, even better)
  • Then I'd just need to set up a system that limits position sizes but follows a simple trend following rule, so it'd be fully systematic


TLDR: A lot of retail trader's problems are that they take profits on positions too early, and enter too many new positions. Your "position entry" doesn't need to be masterful in it's intricacy, but there should be an objectively defined reason why your entering a position, and that's void of emotion, purely based on the risk/reward potential of entering.
Click to expand...
yea my main problem is not letting my wins ride i get nervous
 
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julian111 said:
View attachment 2771250

so aim to increase the gap between avg winning and avg losing? NQ btw
Click to expand...
To answer this.

You can take your realized win rate and use it to predict the % of your bankroll you "should" place on a trade, based of the predicted Risk/Reward of said trade. It's called the Kelly Criterion. It's a nice way of recognizing the relationship between per-trade risk/reward, your win rate, and your "optimal" position size. It'll help you not lose everything https://www.albionresearch.com/tools/kelly

But really, win rate means nothing. There's no optimal WR. It's all about cutting losses tight, and letting winners ride on. That's why it's difficult to even set a risk/reward ratio for a trade; and it calls to question whether R/R should be used at all. Because if you're short vol and have a high win rate of small profits, your Reward to Risk ratio is really R/∞, while you want it to be more like ∞/R. Trading is a cumulative game, each trade is a risk, but the game is an infinite series of risks. Like smoking, you get reward from smoking a cigarette, but if you make it a lifetime habit, it could kill you. Trading is more certain in terms of risk of ruin. Once you go to 0 - you ARE dead. You're out of the game

  • You need to have chips to play
  • If you have no chips, you can't play; you're out of the game
 
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Seth Walsh said:
To answer this.

You can take your realized win rate and use it to predict the % of your bankroll you "should" place on a trade, based of the predicted Risk/Reward of said trade. It's called the Kelly Criterion. It's a nice way of recognizing the relationship between per-trade risk/reward, your win rate, and your "optimal" position size. It'll help you not lose everything https://www.albionresearch.com/tools/kelly

But really, win rate means nothing. There's no optimal WR. It's all about cutting losses tight, and letting winners ride on. That's why it's difficult to even set a risk/reward ratio for a trade; and it calls to question whether R/R should be used at all. Because if you're short vol and have a high win rate of small profits, your Reward to Risk ratio is really R/∞, while you want it to be more like ∞/R. Trading is a cumulative game, each trade is a risk, but the game is an infinite series of risks. Like smoking, you get reward from smoking a cigarette, but if you make it a lifetime habit, it could kill you. Trading is more certain in terms of risk of ruin. Once you go to 0 - you ARE dead. You're out of the game

  • You need to have chips to play
  • If you have no chips, you can't play; you're out of the game
Click to expand...
i just use the tool on tradingview to calculate risk reward
 
julian111 said:
i just use the tool on tradingview to calculate risk reward
Click to expand...
Yeah I know it. But why are you setting a take profit level when no one can predict the markets? That's holding you back. In my opinion, you should only define your risk, and then stop entering so many positions. Also, you should trade uncorrelated markets (contracts) at the same time, so you can enter all markets bidirectionally, without bias.

Crypto is clearly a long market though - maybe you should just never short any cryptocurrency for the time being.

What I'm trying to hammer home is - all you can control is YOUR risk, how much you lose. We hate taking losses.

We have biases. Say you put all your money on a crypto (100% risk), and you're down 20%, you need 25% just to break even. Loss aversion kicks in when you're already down 20%. Why not fine tune your entries and codify a breakout-momentum entry system where you set a tight stoploss, expecting to lose money on the trade, but if it goes in your direction, you move the stoploss to breakeven once it breaks out of its average true range.
 
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Seth Walsh said:
Yeah I know it. But why are you setting a take profit level when no one can predict the markets? That's holding you back. In my opinion, you should only define your risk, and then stop entering so many positions. Also, you should trade uncorrelated markets (contracts) at the same time, so you can enter all markets bidirectionally, without bias.

Crypto is clearly a long market though - maybe you should just never short any cryptocurrency for the time being.

What I'm trying to hammer home is - all you can control is YOUR risk, how much you lose. We hate taking losses.

We have biases. Say you put all your money on a crypto (100% risk), and you're down 20%, you need 25% just to break even. Loss aversion kicks in when you're already down 20%. Why not fine tune your entries and codify a breakout-momentum entry system where you set a tight stoploss, expecting to lose money on the trade, but if it goes in your direction, you move the stoploss to breakeven once it breaks out of its average true range.
Click to expand...
offtopic but just slurped up short nq on market open and got funded by prop firm
1709044406660
 
Seth Walsh said:
What do you mean?
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prop firm requires me to make 3k before getting funded and being able to cashout thats how they scam but ig i got lucky and hit the 3k profit mark so now i get funded 50k account
1709044792749
 
julian111 said:
prop firm requires me to make 3k before getting funded and being able to cashout thats how they scam but ig i got lucky and hit the 3k profit mark so now i get funded 50k accountView attachment 2771369
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Idk what this is but yeah looks like you are getting scammed
 
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INVEST IN SOUNDHOUND RIGHT NOW
 
Seth Walsh said:
Idk what this is but yeah looks like you are getting scammed
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well i should get my funded account in about 3 days so we'll see if its scam or not
 
i do
 
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julian111 said:
bro i just use a simple momentum trading strategy and my wr is 80% rn so idk what the bots are doing
Click to expand...
How much are you making a month?

All these forex niggers shill courses and YouTube..

so I’d assume not much since you’d get hired by Blackrock if you could make over 2% returns on capital per month.
 
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mogstars said:
How much are you making a month?

All these forex niggers shill courses and YouTube..

so I’d assume not much since you’d get hired by Blackrock if you could make over 2% returns on capital per month.
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its only my first 3 days with a real account i made 3k but we'll see how much i actually make ill make an update in a few weeks

also 99 percent of youtube systematic trading strategies will fail u need to just trade with a sim and create your own strategy that works for u after learning fundamentals
 
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julian111 said:
its only my first 3 days with a real account i made 3k but we'll see how much i actually make ill make an update in a few weeks
Click to expand...
With how much capital? Post receipts
 
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eduardkoopman said:
great results so far.

How long is the period of trading of above statts?
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past 3 days so i might just be lucky, the third day is not logged in the site yet but reached 53000
1709057389375
 
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my uncle was a forex trader 15 years and became a chairboard of like 2 crypto start ups
 
Good trying to get your money back
 
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