S
siliconvalleycel
Fasting advocate
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2020
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Alright guys, we all know that leanmaxxing is step 0 in any looksmaxing plan.
If you're not lean or trying to get lean, you're not even trying - just like with skincare, if you're not using sunscreen you're not even trying (I bet @benignice would endorse this statement).
With that being said, I've seen some pretty outdated "advice" with regards to getting lean on this site:
As a man who has experienced great results with fasting (moonface strongfat coper to hollow cheeks), who also has done a lot of independent research on the topic, I'll do my best to convince you, the reader, of at least considering the possibility that fasting can be a useful tool for a lot of people - even if it's not for you.
For me, fasting is by far the best tool to lose weight (bar none, and I've done DNP) while also being the healthiest, as long as you approach it correctly.
I'll structure this in five parts to make it easy to navigate and update, just ctrl+F #X.
DISCLAIMER: This is not medical advice, this guide is presented for educational purposes only
#1. THE PLAN
Goal: Complete a 72h fast
Short version for the go-getters:
That's it, as barebones as can be. Live your life normally (study, gym, work, etc).
This is safe for anyone who isn't horribly unhealthy, or do you think your ancestors had 3 square meals every day? Here's a link for a 382 day fast (not a typo, yes over a year).
(Caveat for diabetics - Type I just don't. Type II you will have to assess just how far gone you are, and tread carefully, go to the science section for an explanation).
Baby steps version:
What about Snake Juice?
Snake juice is just a silly name for homemade electrolyte water, using dirt cheap ingredients anyone can find (table salt and potassium). It's used to replenish your electrolytes (duh) and makes the whole process a bit less sucky. Snake juice is not actual juice, or snake oil. Juice fasts are retarded, extreme low calories (like juice fasts) are retarded.
Replenishing salts only becomes a necessity on fasts extending 72h. I'll repeat, replenishing electrolytes is very important if you intend on going past 72h but that is outside the scope of this guide.
The baseline recipe is
Won't I lose all my gains?
You will lose more fat, retain more muscle and feel more energetic with fasting than with calorie restriction, as long as you keep exercising. Why would the body store firewood (fat) and when winter comes, chop down and burn his sofa (muscle)? The answer is: it doesn't.
What to expect:
#2. THE SCIENCE
Work-in-progress
The gist is:
Caloric restriction will slow your metabolism [ref], fasting will not [ref]
If you undereat (muh calorie deficit) but still eat frequently, spiking insulin, the body will not mobilize fat to burn, it's impossible to mobilize and burn fat with insulin present, so will your body break thermodynamics? Of course not, it will cannibalize your muscle (that it can do with insulin around) and not even spend the calories by pulling a million tricks to reduce your TDEE without you even realizing or having hope to control (dropping body temp is a big one), so you end up hungry, tired with no results, sounds familiar? This has all been known for almost a century and demonstrated multiple times.
#3. MY EXPERIENCE
I'll just paste what I've written in another thread.
I've had quite a positive experience with fasting and the most important aspect is:
NO FOOD is vastly superior to LITTLE FOOD.
Most people see fasting as caloricrestrictionmaxx, as in: "Fasting for one day and eating normally the other 6 will give you the same results as spreading the deficit equally around the days"
This is 100% wrong and I say that as someone who ardently preached Calories in - Calories out.
Turns out Calories out is heavily influenced by Calories in so even though the math checks out it doesn't give you an actionable plan by itself. It's like saying "to win a football match, just score more points than the other team," it's both true and worthless - even worse, if you count on the other team to stay still, your strategy will fail no matter what.
Roughly speaking, metabolic slowdown is a thing with caloric restriction (diet+exercise) [ref], but not with caloric abstinence (fasting) [ref].
A little bit more of explanation [check the science section]
In my experience, the only time in which I've seen weight loss that correlated exactly with the energy deficit was while fasting, and I tried all the memes out there, always keeping high protein (Keto, IF, 8-meal-a-day...): Always the same, worked for a while... then grinded to a halt even accounting for the adjustments due to the (little) weight lost.
With fasting I was losing 1lb (400g) a day every fasting day after the initial water weight drop (about 2 days in), so about 3500 Cals which matched closely my (calculated) TDEE; this rate was maintained for about 22lbs (10kgs) in a little over a month or so.
I was only fasting on weekdays and eating ad lib on weekends, zero hunger after day 2-3 and lots of energy.
I've been running 72s and 48s now because I'm experimenting with higher volume lifting (I lifted normally while fasting when I was over 14% bf, with no problems whatsoever, but I do have a desk job).
33yo male 6'1 (185cm) 220lb (100kg, 20%+ bf) ->193lb (88kg, 14% bf) for reference, and I'll run this for as long as it takes to get single digits bodyfat
TL; DR: Just water fast, don't "eat 500 Cals a day" bs that shit will make you miserable and give subpar results.
#4. FAQ
>It's not sustainable!
It is totally sustainable while you're still a fat fuck, lose the weight then you won't need to sustain it.
>You will develop an eating disorder!
Fasting actually breaks down your current relationship with food , by enabling you to see the difference between being hungry and wanting the pleasure of eating, it's up to you to build a better relationship.
>Can I eat/drink X?
If X has calories, the most likely answer is no. If X has no calories, but sweeteners, you might want to take notice if it makes you hungry after.
Black coffee is usually ok.
>Can I exercise during an extended fast?
Yes you can, no you won't die, drink your snake juice to replenish electrolytes.
Don't drink Gatorade, it has (a lot of) calories and the salt contents are tiny for the price, yes even the zero version.
If you work a physically demanding job, try to start your fast in the weekend so the first 48h of suck are behind you when Monday comes.
>Will I lose muscle?
You won't lose more than you would on a more moderate caloric deficit, and there's reason to believe you would lose even less. Fasting spikes HGH+adrenaline, that will keep your muscles
t. kept a 5 plate deadlift while doing OMAW at 6'1 220lbs for three weeks straight
>I want to take this to 11, what can I do?
You can use metformin, if you can't get metformin you can get berberine (a natural supp that works in a similar manner, has been shown to help with insulin resistance), but it's not necessary.
>I can't find potassium, do I really need it?
Potassium is essential only if you're fasting over 72h. If you can't find it you're an idiot, go to the pharmacy and ask for "salt alternatives for people with high blood pressure."
Yes you must get out of your house and into a brick-and-mortar pharmacy.
Yes you will have to talk to a stranger.
>My SJ tastes horrible and makes me want to vomit, can I slam all salts in a glass then drink water for the rest of the day?
You will have explosive diarrhea when all that concentrated salt solution enters your intestine and pulls all the water out by osmosis, but feel free to try.
>Wouldn't it be better to eat a little instead of fasting?
Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>My mom/roomate/gf/wife's-boyfriend won't let me fast, what do?
Stand up for yourself, say calmly "I want to try this, I know what I am doing, I will stop if I feel bad, and I would like you to be supportive" <- this last part is key, it defuses the inherent crab-in-a-bucket mentality most people have (even if unaware)
>The max I've gone is 72h I don't think I could ever do OMAW, btw I'm 300lbs
72h is literally the worst it gets, that's how long it takes for most fatties to enter ketosis (ie. when your body is actually burning fat for fuel), but after that is smooth sailing since your body is using mostly fat and there's a lot of it in you. So if you're giving up before hitting a 72, you might be just redoing the worst part of the fast over and over again.
If you're inching closer to single digits bf%, long fasts are not needed and suck because your body actually thinks you might run out of fat and die.
>Won't I get nutrient deficiencies?
Drink your SJ, that's what you will deplete on a long fast, other nutrients will be provided by recycling your own defective cells (autophagy). You also won't be fasting forever.
>TL;DR lol
Just try doing a 48h fast, see how you feel, you won't die or have any long-term damage done (don't you think the human body has evolved to handle 48h without food)?
#5. CHANGELOG
2020-03-10: Genesis
If you're not lean or trying to get lean, you're not even trying - just like with skincare, if you're not using sunscreen you're not even trying (I bet @benignice would endorse this statement).
With that being said, I've seen some pretty outdated "advice" with regards to getting lean on this site:
The thing is, just like we don't care if Joe Pencilneck got his squat from 1 to 2 plates following his amazing routine, we don't care about the fatass who lost 10 lbs by "dropping soda" or the beanpole that lost some water weight by "skipping breakfast." We want serious results.
As a man who has experienced great results with fasting (moonface strongfat coper to hollow cheeks), who also has done a lot of independent research on the topic, I'll do my best to convince you, the reader, of at least considering the possibility that fasting can be a useful tool for a lot of people - even if it's not for you.
For me, fasting is by far the best tool to lose weight (bar none, and I've done DNP) while also being the healthiest, as long as you approach it correctly.
I'll structure this in five parts to make it easy to navigate and update, just ctrl+F #X.
- The plan (let's start with the good stuff)
- The science (calories in vs. calories out, but with a twist)
- My experience (33yo 6'1 male - 220 lbs 20%? bf ➜ 193 lbs 14% bf in about a month, 185 lbs as of 2020-02-28)
- FAQ
- Changelog
DISCLAIMER: This is not medical advice, this guide is presented for educational purposes only
#1. THE PLAN
Goal: Complete a 72h fast
Short version for the go-getters:
Stop eating food or caloric beverages, for at least 24h. Next week try again for longer and keep trying until you hit 72h.That's it, as barebones as can be. Live your life normally (study, gym, work, etc).
This is safe for anyone who isn't horribly unhealthy, or do you think your ancestors had 3 square meals every day? Here's a link for a 382 day fast (not a typo, yes over a year).
(Caveat for diabetics - Type I just don't. Type II you will have to assess just how far gone you are, and tread carefully, go to the science section for an explanation).
Baby steps version:
1. Get fat adapted - You body needs to "acclimate" itself to using fat as a fuel (to use your own fat). Going keto/carnivore is the easiest way to do this, one to two weeks should be enough for most people
2. Go to the gym and get used to working out fasted - Use it or lose it still applies, and we want to lose fat, not muscle. Doing 16/8 IF is the easiest way to do this, adjust your window so that you workout fasted, 2 weeks is enough
3. Stop eating food or caloric beverages, for at least 24h but ideally 72h since you're already fat-adapted and train fastedWhat about Snake Juice?
Snake juice is just a silly name for homemade electrolyte water, using dirt cheap ingredients anyone can find (table salt and potassium). It's used to replenish your electrolytes (duh) and makes the whole process a bit less sucky. Snake juice is not actual juice, or snake oil. Juice fasts are retarded, extreme low calories (like juice fasts) are retarded.
Replenishing salts only becomes a necessity on fasts extending 72h. I'll repeat, replenishing electrolytes is very important if you intend on going past 72h but that is outside the scope of this guide.
The baseline recipe is
- 5g (1tsp) table salt
- 5g (1tsp) potassium chloride
- 2L of water
Won't I lose all my gains?
You will lose more fat, retain more muscle and feel more energetic with fasting than with calorie restriction, as long as you keep exercising. Why would the body store firewood (fat) and when winter comes, chop down and burn his sofa (muscle)? The answer is: it doesn't.
What to expect:
- You will be surprised at how well this works and how well you can adapt to it. Fasting basically challenges everything you think you know about metabolism.
- Anticipate over the long term to average 0.7lb/d loss, or estimate you TDEE in any online calculator and use that divided by 3600.
- You will feel really hungry on your usual feeding times, but it will pass in a couple of hours later. Past 48h you may not feel any hunger at all (that is, until you're starting to get <12% lean).
- Reduced hunger and cravings after adaptation period (this can take a few days)
- Greatly reduced inflammation and reduction of autoimmune symptoms.
- Vastly improved insulin sensitivity, potentially reversing type II diabetes (with multiple fasts)
#2. THE SCIENCE
Protip: click the cogwheel > playback speed > 2x
I'm in a hurry
I have some time
I'm a NEET with hours to spare and a bit of a nerd
I'm in a hurry
I have some time
I'm a NEET with hours to spare and a bit of a nerd
Work-in-progress
The gist is:
Caloric restriction will slow your metabolism [ref], fasting will not [ref]
If you undereat (muh calorie deficit) but still eat frequently, spiking insulin, the body will not mobilize fat to burn, it's impossible to mobilize and burn fat with insulin present, so will your body break thermodynamics? Of course not, it will cannibalize your muscle (that it can do with insulin around) and not even spend the calories by pulling a million tricks to reduce your TDEE without you even realizing or having hope to control (dropping body temp is a big one), so you end up hungry, tired with no results, sounds familiar? This has all been known for almost a century and demonstrated multiple times.
#3. MY EXPERIENCE
I'll just paste what I've written in another thread.
I've had quite a positive experience with fasting and the most important aspect is:
NO FOOD is vastly superior to LITTLE FOOD.
Most people see fasting as caloricrestrictionmaxx, as in: "Fasting for one day and eating normally the other 6 will give you the same results as spreading the deficit equally around the days"
This is 100% wrong and I say that as someone who ardently preached Calories in - Calories out.
Turns out Calories out is heavily influenced by Calories in so even though the math checks out it doesn't give you an actionable plan by itself. It's like saying "to win a football match, just score more points than the other team," it's both true and worthless - even worse, if you count on the other team to stay still, your strategy will fail no matter what.
Roughly speaking, metabolic slowdown is a thing with caloric restriction (diet+exercise) [ref], but not with caloric abstinence (fasting) [ref].
A little bit more of explanation [check the science section]
In my experience, the only time in which I've seen weight loss that correlated exactly with the energy deficit was while fasting, and I tried all the memes out there, always keeping high protein (Keto, IF, 8-meal-a-day...): Always the same, worked for a while... then grinded to a halt even accounting for the adjustments due to the (little) weight lost.
With fasting I was losing 1lb (400g) a day every fasting day after the initial water weight drop (about 2 days in), so about 3500 Cals which matched closely my (calculated) TDEE; this rate was maintained for about 22lbs (10kgs) in a little over a month or so.
I was only fasting on weekdays and eating ad lib on weekends, zero hunger after day 2-3 and lots of energy.
I've been running 72s and 48s now because I'm experimenting with higher volume lifting (I lifted normally while fasting when I was over 14% bf, with no problems whatsoever, but I do have a desk job).
33yo male 6'1 (185cm) 220lb (100kg, 20%+ bf) ->193lb (88kg, 14% bf) for reference, and I'll run this for as long as it takes to get single digits bodyfat
TL; DR: Just water fast, don't "eat 500 Cals a day" bs that shit will make you miserable and give subpar results.
#4. FAQ
>It's not sustainable!
It is totally sustainable while you're still a fat fuck, lose the weight then you won't need to sustain it.
>You will develop an eating disorder!
Fasting actually breaks down your current relationship with food , by enabling you to see the difference between being hungry and wanting the pleasure of eating, it's up to you to build a better relationship.
>Can I eat/drink X?
If X has calories, the most likely answer is no. If X has no calories, but sweeteners, you might want to take notice if it makes you hungry after.
Black coffee is usually ok.
>Can I exercise during an extended fast?
Yes you can, no you won't die, drink your snake juice to replenish electrolytes.
Don't drink Gatorade, it has (a lot of) calories and the salt contents are tiny for the price, yes even the zero version.
If you work a physically demanding job, try to start your fast in the weekend so the first 48h of suck are behind you when Monday comes.
>Will I lose muscle?
You won't lose more than you would on a more moderate caloric deficit, and there's reason to believe you would lose even less. Fasting spikes HGH+adrenaline, that will keep your muscles
t. kept a 5 plate deadlift while doing OMAW at 6'1 220lbs for three weeks straight
>I want to take this to 11, what can I do?
You can use metformin, if you can't get metformin you can get berberine (a natural supp that works in a similar manner, has been shown to help with insulin resistance), but it's not necessary.
>I can't find potassium, do I really need it?
Potassium is essential only if you're fasting over 72h. If you can't find it you're an idiot, go to the pharmacy and ask for "salt alternatives for people with high blood pressure."
Yes you must get out of your house and into a brick-and-mortar pharmacy.
Yes you will have to talk to a stranger.
>My SJ tastes horrible and makes me want to vomit, can I slam all salts in a glass then drink water for the rest of the day?
You will have explosive diarrhea when all that concentrated salt solution enters your intestine and pulls all the water out by osmosis, but feel free to try.
>Wouldn't it be better to eat a little instead of fasting?
Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>My mom/roomate/gf/wife's-boyfriend won't let me fast, what do?
Stand up for yourself, say calmly "I want to try this, I know what I am doing, I will stop if I feel bad, and I would like you to be supportive" <- this last part is key, it defuses the inherent crab-in-a-bucket mentality most people have (even if unaware)
>The max I've gone is 72h I don't think I could ever do OMAW, btw I'm 300lbs
72h is literally the worst it gets, that's how long it takes for most fatties to enter ketosis (ie. when your body is actually burning fat for fuel), but after that is smooth sailing since your body is using mostly fat and there's a lot of it in you. So if you're giving up before hitting a 72, you might be just redoing the worst part of the fast over and over again.
If you're inching closer to single digits bf%, long fasts are not needed and suck because your body actually thinks you might run out of fat and die.
>Won't I get nutrient deficiencies?
Drink your SJ, that's what you will deplete on a long fast, other nutrients will be provided by recycling your own defective cells (autophagy). You also won't be fasting forever.
>TL;DR lol
Just try doing a 48h fast, see how you feel, you won't die or have any long-term damage done (don't you think the human body has evolved to handle 48h without food)?
#5. CHANGELOG
2020-03-10: Genesis
