Do you think free will exist?

[CrazyFitLover]

Or it is just our destiny no matter what we feel about controling it, that was already calculated tho.

 

[Spartacus1-]

There is no absolute freedom. Whether controlled by your government, your own self, or by your predetermined fate. You can never achieve unshackled autonomy.

 

[Danish_Retard]

tbh I think the moment the universe started everything that will ever happen could be predicted if you had the tools necessary. If you don't believe in absolute determinism there is still neuropsychology that tells us that we're basically slaves to our brains.

 

[CrazyFitLover]

There is no absolute freedom. Whether controlled by your government, your own self, or by your predetermined fate. You can never achieve unshackled autonomy.

Fuck, i think you are in those few smart people here, it is satisfying to talk to people like you.

 

[Deleted member 6997]

I'm controlled by my desire to fuck blue-eyed blondes

 

[CrazyFitLover]

tbh I think the moment the universe started everything that will ever happen could be predicted if you had the tools necessary. If you don't believe in absolute determinism there is still neuropsychology that tells us that we're basically slaves to our brains.

Life is pathetic, but on the other hand if everything is not alredy determined then it would be on random? an then we have a problem that how something can be random? it is impossible.

 

[Danish_Retard]

I'm controlled by my desire to fuck blue-eyed blondes

blue eyed brunettes mog

 

[Deleted member 6997]

blue eyed brunettes mog

I want a blonde daughter faggot

 

[CrazyFitLover]

I want a blonde daughter faggot

I m afraid that is not your fate, i hope it is.

 

[Danish_Retard]

I want a blonde daughter faggot

cuckmaxxing i see.

I cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than having a daughter. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are feeding, clothing, raising and rearing a girl for at least 18 years solely so she can go and get ravaged by another man. All the hard work you put into your beautiful little girl - reading her stories at bedtime, making her go to sports practice, making sure she had a healthy diet, educating her, playing with her. All of it has one simple result: her body is more enjoyable for the men that will eventually fuck her in every hole.

Raised the perfect girl? Great. Who benefits? If you're lucky, a random man who had nothing to do with the way she grew up, who marries her. He gets to fuck her tight pussy every night. He gets the benefits of her kind and sweet personality that came from the way you raised her.

As a man who has a daughter, you are LITERALLY dedicating at least 20 years of your life simply to raise a girl for another man to enjoy. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically

 

[Deleted member 6997]

cuckmaxxing i see.

I cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than having a daughter. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are feeding, clothing, raising and rearing a girl for at least 18 years solely so she can go and get ravaged by another man. All the hard work you put into your beautiful little girl - reading her stories at bedtime, making her go to sports practice, making sure she had a healthy diet, educating her, playing with her. All of it has one simple result: her body is more enjoyable for the men that will eventually fuck her in every hole.

Raised the perfect girl? Great. Who benefits? If you're lucky, a random man who had nothing to do with the way she grew up, who marries her. He gets to fuck her tight pussy every night. He gets the benefits of her kind and sweet personality that came from the way you raised her.

As a man who has a daughter, you are LITERALLY dedicating at least 20 years of your life simply to raise a girl for another man to enjoy. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically

Cope, I will fritzlmaxx

 

[Danish_Retard]

Cope, I will fritzlmaxx

oh god no jfl

 

[CrazyFitLover]

cuckmaxxing i see.

I cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than having a daughter. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are feeding, clothing, raising and rearing a girl for at least 18 years solely so she can go and get ravaged by another man. All the hard work you put into your beautiful little girl - reading her stories at bedtime, making her go to sports practice, making sure she had a healthy diet, educating her, playing with her. All of it has one simple result: her body is more enjoyable for the men that will eventually fuck her in every hole.

Raised the perfect girl? Great. Who benefits? If you're lucky, a random man who had nothing to do with the way she grew up, who marries her. He gets to fuck her tight pussy every night. He gets the benefits of her kind and sweet personality that came from the way you raised her.

As a man who has a daughter, you are LITERALLY dedicating at least 20 years of your life simply to raise a girl for another man to enjoy. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically

Does not she spreaads your genes more easily? compared to boys.

 

[St. Wristcel]

Me on my way to engage in a dialectic related to the metaphysics of our existence and choices....

 

[Deleted member 6997]

oh god no jfl

 

[Deleted member 8846]

The only freedom that exists is death

 

[CrazyFitLover]

The only freedom that exists is death

Reddit moment.

 

[Matheus]

There is free will but not exactly like you would envision I suppose. @Spartacus1- 's argument is kinda off the mark tbh. Unshackled autonomy ≠ free will. The government can impede on my autonomy and exert some form of coercion but ultimately you're still free to choose. The government and other external actors can only add or remove consequences to your choices, not force you to make a specific one.

Ofc if you believe our behaviour is entirely a material neurological byproduct then yeah I suppose there's not much free will. Free will somewhat requires belief in a soul or something

 

[JustBeCurry]

The only freedom that exists is death

 

[Danish_Retard]

Does not she spreaads your genes more easily? compared to boys.

It's a copy paste. I don't get why anyone would care about their genes tbh. I don't want a kid to go through the same suffering that I have.

But you're correct. If you view your progeny as nothing more than that, having a female child will be your best bet at making sure they're continuing your lineage.

 

[CrazyFitLover]

There is free will but not exactly like you would envision I suppose. @Spartacus1- 's argument is kinda off the mark tbh. Unshackled autonomy ≠ free will. The government can impede on my autonomy and exert some form of coercion but ultimately you're still free to choose. The government and other external actors can only add or remove consequences to your choices, not force you to make a specific one.

Ofc if you believe our behaviour is entirely a material neurological byproduct then yeah I suppose there's not much free will. Free will somewhat requires belief in a soul or something

Problem is that everything is working by cause and effect and nothing is outside of that, even i for example try to act as someone who has freewill, i already lost because this was aalready pre determined too, just like everyone reacts to it. This does not mean to use free will argument for being lazy and dont try hard enough in life.

 

[Deleted member 4106]

No, we are influenced by genetics and culture in the way of thinking.
An introverted guy would not prefer to be alone because of his free will, but because he needs less social interactions. A man in Nazi Germany will not be a patriot by free will, but because he was influenced by culture.
genes and culture greatly influence our decision making.
Another point is that we would have free will because we are rational beings, but we have humans more intelligent than others, which would imply that certain humans have more free will than others

 

[Deleted member 6873]

tbh I think the moment the universe started everything that will ever happen could be predicted if you had the tools necessary. If you don't believe in absolute determinism there is still neuropsychology that tells us that we're basically slaves to our brains.

my goal is to fuck big tiddy goth gf

 

[Deleted member 6873]

No, we are influenced by genetics and culture in the way of thinking.
An introverted guy would not prefer to be alone because of his free will, but because he needs less social interactions. A man in Nazi Germany will not be a patriot by free will, but because he was influenced by culture.
genes and culture greatly influence our decision making.
Another point is that we would have free will because we are rational beings, but we have humans more intelligent than others, which would imply that certain humans have more free will than others

based and black

 

[Danish_Retard]

my goal is to fuck big tiddy goth gf

I've already reacted to variants of this post 3-4 times man, you're milking me dry.

 

[CrazyFitLover]

No, we are influenced by genetics and culture in the way of thinking.
An introverted guy would not prefer to be alone because of his free will, but because he needs less social interactions. A man in Nazi Germany will not be a patriot by free will, but because he was influenced by culture.
genes and culture greatly influence our decision making.
Another point is that we would have free will because we are rational beings, but we have humans more intelligent than others, which would imply that certain humans have more free will than others

No they just have different fate, it is just about that everything is coming from physics rules, so we just have illusion of making choices when in reality it is aalready pre calculated what we will choose, we dont choose what we want, we just want, because it is aligned with cause aand effect.

 

[Deleted member 6873]

I've already reacted to variants of this post 3-4 times man, you're milking me dry.

Okay love

 

[lutte]

tbh I think the moment the universe started everything that will ever happen could be predicted if you had the tools necessary. If you don't believe in absolute determinism there is still neuropsychology that tells us that we're basically slaves to our brains.

wtf you talking about. you is your brain man

 

[Matheus]

Problem is that everything is working by cause and effect and nothing is outside of that, even i for example try to act as someone who has freewill, i already lost because this was aalready pre determined too, just like everyone reacts to it. This does not mean to use free will argument for being lazy and dont try hard enough in life.

Who says it was predetermined? Ofc if you think there's nothing more than your brain guiding your conduct then I suppose you don't have absolute free will. But there's more than just your brain. Even if it were the free will argument could be made depending on your definition of free will.

If there is cultural influences, biological instincts, etc… man is special in that he can override those and choose based on the fact that he has a consciousness (eg he is self-reflective, able to reflect on his existence, on his past, present, future). Ultimately as I said culture, biology, etc only adds consequences and incentives to choices, it does not make the choice for you. You want to fuck bc you know it will feel good, but you won't rape bc you would feel guilty and be punished by law. In this example cultural consequences apply (punishment for a crime) and biological insticts (lust, guilt) but ultimately if you wanted to rape you could. You would have to deal with the consequences obviously but it's still a choice you have.

Give your definition of free will and maybe we can be more precise

 

[CrazyFitLover]

Who says it was predetermined? Ofc if you think there's nothing more than your brain guiding your conduct then I suppose you don't have absolute free will. But there's more than just your brain. Even if it were the free will argument could be made depending on your definition of free will.

If there is cultural influences, biological instincts, etc… man is special in that he can override those and choose based on the fact that he has a consciousness (eg he is self-reflective, able to reflect on his existence, on his past, present, future). Ultimately as I said culture, biology, etc only adds consequences and incentives to choices, it does not make the choice for you. You want to fuck bc you know it will feel good, but you won't rape bc you would feel guilty and be punished by law. In this example cultural consequences apply (punishment for a crime) and biological insticts (lust, guilt) but ultimately if you wanted to rape you could. You would have to deal with the consequences obviously but it's still a choice you have.

Give your definition of free will and maybe we can be more precise

Everything you said works by laws of physics and therefore it can be calculated in theory, it is calculated in metaphysics, so everything is predetermined.

 

[Deleted member 2617]

It was over even before it started.
Maybe it wasnt over before bigbang happened.

 

[CrazyFitLover]

It was over even before it started.
Maybe it wasnt over before bigbang happened.

It was over before universe even created, it was over for whole eternity.

 

[Matheus]

Everything you said works by laws of physics and therefore it can be calculated in theory, it is calculated in metaphysics, so everything is predetermined.

I'm not sure I understood what you said ngl.
Logical fallacy though, the fact that it works by physics law does not mean that the outcome of a multifactorial decision can be obtained with certainty. You can certainly know the metaphysical state of what I wrote (the result of my decision to write that) but you can't know a priori what I was going to write eg what choice I was going to make. If you want to talk metaphysics go ahead but please be specific.

 

[EckhartTollemaxx]

It comes down to 1 thing: does god/spirituality exist?
If it does, there is free will as the world is fake.
If it doesn't there probably is none as it's all physics and evolution then. Can't fight yourself, your body does what it's programmed to do and you're just observing it.

 

[Deleted member 6273]

It comes down to 1 thing: does god/spirituality exist?
If it does, there is free will as the world is fake.
If it doesn't there probably is none as it's all physics and evolution then. Can't fight yourself, your body does what it's programmed to do and you're just observing it.

Even if God exists (given he is omniscient) then free will doesn't exist, since he knows everything including the future implying it's predetermined.

 

[Matheus]

It comes down to 1 thing: does god/spirituality exist?
If it does, there is free will as the world is fake.
If it doesn't there probably is none as it's all physics and evolution then. Can't fight yourself, your body does what it's programmed to do and you're just observing it.

Yes indeed, though if God didn't exist and we were only evolutionary and biological byproducts then couldn't a system as complex as our brain qualify as free will? I mean what tf is even the definition of free will. Is it the possibility to make a rational decision?
Btw how do you explain morality in this case? You could say that we evolved to be moral because it allowed us to form communities which was good for our survival. But then you come to a major hole in the evolutionary theory = the impossibility of transitional life forms. Same thing as with altruism.

 

[Matheus]

Even if God exists (given he is omniscient) then free will doesn't exist, since he knows everything including the future implying it's predetermined.

Not necessarily, this is actually a pretty well known argument in christian theology. Basically God's omniscience does not contradict free will. Take this analogy : you ask your friend if he would prefer pizza or Burger King. You know he adores pizza, like really adores, so you know with little doubt that he'll choose pizza. You didn't force him too and he was still free to choose Burger King. You just know him too well so you guessed what we would choose. It's like that with God except x1000000 because he knows us perfectly (omniscient) so he always know what we'll choose. But the choice is not enforced, we are the ones making it.

 

[EckhartTollemaxx]

Yes indeed, though if God didn't exist and we were only evolutionary and biological byproducts then couldn't a system as complex as our brain qualify as free will? I mean what tf is even the definition of free will. Is it the possibility to make a rational decision?
Btw how do you explain morality in this case? You could say that we evolved to be moral because it allowed us to form communities which was good for our survival. But then you come to a major hole in the evolutionary theory = the impossibility of transitional life forms. Same thing as with altruism.

I agree with everything you said except the transitional life form. Every lifeform is transitional, nothing is final ever and everything is in a constant state of transformation. We could be growing wings rn who knows.

Altruism could have unpredictable effects that could help certain people and they'd be sexually selected for in the future and reproduce "against nature".
But what many people seem to forget is that humans are animals just like any other and everything we do is perfectly natural including mass industrialization and destroying other lifeforms in the process.

 

[Matheus]

I agree with everything you said except the transitional life form. Every lifeform is transitional, nothing is final ever and everything is in a constant state of transformation. We could be growing wings rn who knows.

Altruism could have unpredictable effects that could help certain people and they'd be sexually selected for in the future and reproduce "against nature".
But what many people seem to forget is that humans are animals just like any other and everything we do is perfectly natural including mass industrialization and destroying other lifeforms in the process.

Regarding the first part the argument of transitional life forms is one of the strongest points again evolutionary theory. Evolution assumes every entity is selfish and only concerned by its own survival. In such a society, how could altruism emerge? It would be eliminated at the first generation bc selfish entities would take over. You could say that 10 altruist entities are selected because since the others are selfish theh won't ever cooperate and thus become extinct. But genetic mutations are very rare and thus you can't really expect a significant amount of the next generation to be altruist when the default state is to be selfish.

The same argument is also used with eyes, the eyes are so complex, it cannot be possibly be a mutation over one generation, building such a complex system must have required a constant refinement over countless generations, in layers. However, since the first layer of the eye system (and a lot of subsequent layers) provides no evolutionary benefit, why doesn't this mutation disappear? And even if each layer is a neutral mutation (neither beneficial nor harmful) the actual statistical occurence of the discrete mutations required to farm such a complex system stacking upon each other is abysmal.

Btw if transitional life forms existed would exist we should have been able to find fossils of them? For instance human cranium have half an eye-socket? Nope, not at the time of Darwin, not today. Darwin himself is reported to have been bothered by the absence of archaeological evidence of his theory.

You could have a point regarding altruism but you would need to expand on it. Rn it's just speculation. I know you've been groomed to think evolution is the end-all-be-all of how we came to be. But it really isn't.