does the past cause the present?

[Youㅤ]

and can we change the present?

if both these are true, then we can change the past.

but idk if the past causes the present. i mean it seems to, yet we still seem to have freewill, so it doesnt totally cause the present.

so perhaps the causality is not that the past causes the present but that both are caused by something else, which explains the correspondence of the past and present

and why do we say causality is true because the past is before? i mean if time went backward we could still analyze the pattern and say that causation exists.

so its more of the fact that what is real causes what is unreal to become real, perhaps because what is unreal cant cause anything real.

but the future and past both are unreal so can the future cause the past? i think time is in a loop, i mean i think time is driven by the movement of 3d objects and 3d objects always seem to move in circles.

well if time was a loop we wouldnt know cuz if u went back to the past u would go back to when u werent aware of the future.

well the loop also explains how time could begin in the first place.

 

[ey88]

The present changes the future

 

[Youㅤ]

The present changes the future

if its changed it must already exist

well this makes sense if time is looped how we have freewill

 

[ey88]

if its changed it must already exist

well this makes sense if time is looped how we have freewill

Ok I should’ve said the present determines the future

 

[Youㅤ]

if its changed it must already exist

well this makes sense if time is looped how we have freewill

the question is why is the loop not a perfect circle but more of a spiral

 

[noodlelover]

I once had all of these thoughts.... but...

and can we change the present?

if both these are true, then we can change the past.

No.

but idk if the past causes the present. i mean it seems to, yet we still seem to have freewill, so it doesnt totally cause the present.

Our thoughts and actions are completely determined by causality.

Our brains don't have detailed models of all of it's own mechanisms so it feels like decisions are emerging from us.

so perhaps the causality is not that the past causes the present but that both are caused by something else, which explains the correspondence of the past and present

Time only moves forward.

We know this because systems break down. A dead person rots away and turns to dirt. There is no causal mechanism for dirt to form into a perfectly formed and working human being.

The arrow of causality doesn't work both ways.

and why do we say causality is true because the past is before? i mean if time went backward we could still analyze the pattern and say that causation exists.

so its more of the fact that what is real causes what is unreal to become real, perhaps because what is unreal cant cause anything real.

but the future and past both are unreal so can the future cause the past? i think time is in a loop, i mean i think time is driven by the movement of 3d objects and 3d objects always seem to move in circles.

well if time was a loop we wouldnt know cuz if u went back to the past u would go back to when u werent aware of the future.

well the loop also explains how time could begin in the first place.

No time loop.

Sorry. I hope this didn't come off as harsh. These are all perfectly valid questions, I once thought hard about.

 

[Youㅤ]

the question is why is the loop not a perfect circle but more of a spiral

why is the universe expanding despite gravity basically the question

i think its cuz distance exists in order for more than one thing to exist. for example if something was looped then each cycle must be distinguished by some distance/time otherwise it wouldnt be a dynamic loop but a static circle

but then why is it a dynamic loop not a static circle

 

[Youㅤ]

Our thoughts and actions are completely determined by causality.

i dont believe in causality because i dont understand it (too complex if it were true)

Our brains don't have detailed models of all of it's own mechanisms so it feels like decisions are emerging from us.

our thoughts create our brains not our brains create our thoughts. if it was a non conscious world then it would never need to create consciousness for a physical brain to operate.

Time only moves forward.

things only orbit in one direction but theres no reason they couldnt be sent in the opposite direction it would just take the right interference.

The arrow of causality doesn't work both ways.

well then the beginning of time never would be created with nothing to cause it and if nothing caused it then the fundamental nature of reality is acausal. i think the future caused it and once it was created of course it had an effect. its like it two things exist they both affect eachother theres no such thing as two people talking and only one affecting the other.

No time loop.

no proof of no time loop. proof of time loop will be hard to get tho, i think i will get this eventually

 

[Youㅤ]

i dont believe in causality because i dont understand it (too complex if it were true)

our thoughts create our brains not our brains create our thoughts. if it was a non conscious world then it would never need to create consciousness for a physical brain to operate.

i contradicted myself. i believe in some forms of causality but i dont believe everything is caused by something real. its also possible that the view of thoughts creating brain vs brain creating thoughts are both incomplete and that something is creating both.

 

[Deleted member 43881]

you can’t change the past present or future bc the present is from the past

 

[Youㅤ]

you can’t change the past present or future bc the present is from the past

so what can u change then , ur observation of it? and this would change nothing but itself? or can u change nothing? well what are we? im not my body, and im not my thoughts.

do u believe in the past? like i think its a psyop i dont believe i was born just like i dont believe in "history". if i was psyoped into believing i was born of course id hallucinate the apparent births going on in this dream called reality. its a strange dream broken up every night with stranger ones to try to psyop me into thinking this timeline is real. death doesnt exist u just wake up and realize the nightmare is over. but why do animals feel so good when they die?

death isnt even real its defined as something that happens to things other than me just like birth.

 

[Deleted member 43881]

so what can u change then , ur observation of it? and this would change nothing but itself? or can u change nothing? well what are we? im not my body, and im not my thoughts.

do u believe in the past? like i think its a psyop i dont believe i was born just like i dont believe in "history". if i was psyoped into believing i was born of course id hallucinate the apparent births going on in this dream called reality. its a strange dream broken up every night with stranger ones to try to psyop me into thinking this timeline is real. death doesnt exist u just wake up and realize the nightmare is over. but why do animals feel so good when they die?

death isnt even real its defined as something that happens to things other than me just like birth.

nothing is able to be changed and the past exists because it makes the present exist

 

[Youㅤ]

if time went backward u wouldnt even know cuz u would constantly be losing information and thinking that u just gained information

so it could be looped in either direction

 

[noodlelover]

i dont believe in causality because i dont understand it (too complex if it were true)

Causality is very simple.

All of physics boils down to a few simple clean equations.

our thoughts create our brains not our brains create our thoughts. if it was a non conscious world then it would never need to create consciousness for a physical brain to operate.

Consciousness isn't what you think it is.

There's an easy answer to the question "What is the I that is experiencing?"

You are the matter and energy that makes up your brain. The reason you have a mental model of yourself is do to your brain having a mental model of itself.

things only orbit in one direction but theres no reason they couldnt be sent in the opposite direction it would just take the right interference.

Orbital mechanics could have equations to explain things moving in the opposite direction but not all physics does.

If even some physics is irreversible, then the entire direction of time is only moving in one direction.

Some physics are irreversible like dirt reforming into a fully formed human being. It doesn't work in that direction from a statistical probability point of view. It just wouldn't happen so frequently.

well then the beginning of time never would be created with nothing to cause it and if nothing caused it then the fundamental nature of reality is acausal.

causality is not a necessity. It is a feature of our local universe that we observe acting locally to the energy and matter we interact with.

Steven Hawking imagined that this rule must keep consistent, and he like you believed we may be in some giant time loop.

When you extrapolate an entire universe model off limited data, viewing things from a very limited scope, in a very limited "area" for lack of a better word, you get an incorrect model of reality.

The way we have observed time, physics, causality, space, energy, and matter to "behave" is only seeing things locally from a limited perspective.

Either nothing exists, or everything and clearly something exists, so everything exists. Every possible computational permutation. Three dimensions, five dimensions, time in a loop, time in an infinite stream, universes emerging from nothing and disappearing into nothing, etc.

What I am most concerned with is how our local universe acts because that is what I interact with on a day to day basis.

i think the future caused it and once it was created of course it had an effect. its like it two things exist they both affect eachother theres no such thing as two people talking and only one affecting the other.


no proof of no time loop. proof of time loop will be hard to get tho, i think i will get this eventually

 

[NORDEN SLAVORUM]

Does your discord work now

 

[Youㅤ]

All of physics boils down to a few simple clean equations.

maybe but physics is not reality and doesnt explain why, so doesnt really explain causality

Consciousness isn't what you think it is.

i think of consciousness as creation whereas awareness is perception. if u hit a ball and it rolls, the ball was aware of u (and u it because it being where u hit caused u to experience force) when the ball rolls if it hits an object it creates that movement and is conscious of it

You are the matter and energy that makes up your brain. The reason you have a mental model of yourself is do to your brain having a mental model of itself.

in other words a pattern. matter and energy i think are different types of one thing, which is frequency. i think all patterns are conscious. i am the emergent pattern rather than the sum of each fundamental frequency. likewise, i am more than my body. a part of the brain can send information to another part, and then later it can read that information. i can write something on a separate object and then later read that information. the emergent pattern of me is more than my brain.

Orbital mechanics could have equations to explain things moving in the opposite direction but not all physics does.

i should look into this, need to go to bed tho

causality is not a necessity. It is a feature of our local universe that we observe acting locally to the energy and matter we interact with.

causality is all of reality requiring a particular part of it to be present, for example if something locally causes something, it wasnt just that one thing but everything . if one thing was different the result would be different.

When you extrapolate an entire universe model off limited data, viewing things from a very limited scope, in a very limited "area" for lack of a better word, you get an incorrect model of reality.

true, ill have to find a solution to this

What I am most concerned with is how our local universe acts because that is what I interact with on a day to day basis.

i agree i only care about practicality

 

[Youㅤ]

Does your discord work now

yes

 

[Youㅤ]

Either nothing exists, or everything and clearly something exists, so everything exists. Every possible computational permutation. Three dimensions, five dimensions, time in a loop, time in an infinite stream, universes emerging from nothing and disappearing into nothing, etc.

btw what is the fourth spacial dimension? i have trouble comprehending this. also whats the definition of universe. and how can nothing exist? nothing never exists. i think people think this because we dont understand existence

 

[noodlelover]

maybe but physics is not reality and doesnt explain why, so doesnt really explain causality

Causality doesn't need to be explained, it's a feature of our local universe.

Causality is the relationship energy and matter have along our dimension of time, as far as we have observed.

Causality itself doesn't need a cause, and neither do our laws of physics. They may or may not have a cause.

It helps to realize that the universe has always existed. It didn't come from anywhere. The local universe (the matter, energy, and time that we observe may have emerged from a greater universe, or it may have always existed).

i think of consciousness as creation

Creation of what?

whereas awareness is perception. if u hit a ball and it rolls, the ball was aware of u (and u it because it being where u hit caused u to experience force) when the ball rolls if it hits an object it creates that movement and is conscious of it


in other words a pattern. matter and energy i think are different types of one thing, which is frequency. i think all patterns are conscious.

Everything is some kind of pattern. All matter and energy is conscious in one way or another, but not all consciousness has a model of self and the surrounding environment.

i am the emergent pattern rather than the sum of each fundamental frequency. likewise, i am more than my body. a part of the brain can send information to another part, and then later it can read that information. i can write something on a separate object and then later read that information. the emergent pattern of me is more than my brain.

Depends how you define "more".

i should look into this, need to go to bed tho


causality is all of reality requiring a particular part of it to be present, for example if something locally causes something, it wasnt just that one thing but everything . if one thing was different the result would be different.

Right, going back to the big bang. Other parts of the universe may not be causally connected to this one.

true, ill have to find a solution to this


i agree i only care about practicality

Well, more than that, is that we can't really know what's outside that. Some things such as religion aren't true, but we can't known if we're in a simulation or universes are spawning more universes or if it's something else.

 

[Youㅤ]

Creation of what?

Anything, some aspect of the future in standard basic philosophy of time. change of anything does lead to a pattern. It’s how the pattern of evolution led to our consciousness, consciousness already existed just changed

Everything is some kind of pattern. All matter and energy is conscious in one way or another, but not all consciousness has a model of self and the surrounding environment.

well semantics but imo it does, just different than our models. for example an object perceives the forces that act upon it from the surroundings. yes its not aware of everything to the refinement of our thoughts, but we arent aware of everything either. our models are simplistic and unrefined as well. self consciousness is just perceiving itself and i think this is a given for all matter.

Depends how you define "more".

the pattern extends outward into space and farther into time

Right, going back to the big bang. Other parts of the universe may not be causally connected to this one.

i can see this but i wonder if there is some form of causation. ive been wondering if correlation=causation is actually true.

Well, more than that, is that we can't really know what's outside that. Some things such as religion aren't true, but we can't known if we're in a simulation or universes are spawning more universes or if it's something else.

semantics again but i consider religion as true. word=metaphor. different ways of describing the same thing basically.