Downswung and Downgrown: The Difference Matters

[thecel]

A downswung mandible is when the mandibular plane angle (MPA) is steeply downslanted and the difference between the MPA and the occlusal plane angle (OPA) is small. In other words, both the jawline and the occlusal plane are nearly equally downslanting. The lower jaw appears “swung” down.

A downgrown mandible is when the MPA is steeply downslanted and the OPA is pretty straight. The difference between the MPA and the OPA is big.

With a downswung mandible, bimax with counterclockwise rotation (CCW) has a strong potential to ascend.

With a downgrown-not-downswung mandible, there’s not much room for CCW. The amount of CCW that makes the MPA ideal is very un-ideal for the OPA; it’d make the occlusal plane angle upward-slanted, which looks really ugly and uncanny.

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane looks:

 

[Deleted member 175542]

good thread but edit it & add pictures for the low iq people here

 

[Prøphet]

True, you would just give yourself SFS if you fucked up the occlusal plane

 

[genetically fucked]

low iq people here

you?

 

[Deleted member 175542]

you?

not me I understand what he's saying

 

[thecel]

good thread but edit it & add pictures for the low iq people here

Downswung:

Downgrown (a little bit downswung) :

 

[Lookologist003]

How can you fix a downgrown mandible? Is there no fix?

 

[6´3 LTN]

A downswung mandible is when the mandibular plane angle (MPA) is steeply downslanted and the difference between the MPA and the occlusal plane angle (OPA) is small. In other words, both the jawline and the occlusal plane are nearly equally downslanting. The lower jaw appears “swung” down.

A downgrown mandible is when the MPA is steeply downslanted and the OPA is pretty straight. The difference between the MPA and the OPA is big.

With a downswung mandible, bimax with counterclockwise rotation (CCW) has a strong potential to ascend.

With a downgrown-not-downswung mandible, there’s not much room for CCW. The amount of CCW that makes the MPA ideal is very un-ideal for the OPA; it’d make the occlusal plane angle upward-slanted, which looks really ugly and uncanny.

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane looks:

View attachment 3937507

Good thread. I have a downgrown mandible what are some fixes?

 

[thecel]

How can you fix a downgrown mandible? Is there no fix?

gonial implants + chin height shaveoff

 

[slaters]

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane loo

I might be retarded but what does a too CW rotated or ideal rotated occlusal plane look like then I’m jus looking at teeth and gums

Also Downswung looks way better ngl tall face vs soy face

 

[cendawan]

A downswung mandible is when the mandibular plane angle (MPA) is steeply downslanted and the difference between the MPA and the occlusal plane angle (OPA) is small. In other words, both the jawline and the occlusal plane are nearly equally downslanting. The lower jaw appears “swung” down.

A downgrown mandible is when the MPA is steeply downslanted and the OPA is pretty straight. The difference between the MPA and the OPA is big.

With a downswung mandible, bimax with counterclockwise rotation (CCW) has a strong potential to ascend.

With a downgrown-not-downswung mandible, there’s not much room for CCW. The amount of CCW that makes the MPA ideal is very un-ideal for the OPA; it’d make the occlusal plane angle upward-slanted, which looks really ugly and uncanny.

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane looks:

View attachment 3937507

Ahhh thanks

 

[cendawan]

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane looks:

View attachment 3937507

Do u mean CWly?

 

[blahblahblahblahbla]

Thats literally my OP and im convinced it makes me uglier lol. I would be a giga mogger with a 6° steeper jaw

 

[LEFORT17]

gonial implants + chin height shaveoff

https://exploreplasticsurgery.com/case-study-three-piece-total-jawline-augmentation/
looks good

 

[Lookologist003]

Basically you are higher ranking subhuman than others if there is a mismatch between your occlusal plane angle and your mandibular plane angle.

 

[Leffatssklov]

I was just wondering i wasnt really expecting much

 

[LackEmpathyTherefor]

A downswung mandible is when the mandibular plane angle (MPA) is steeply downslanted and the difference between the MPA and the occlusal plane angle (OPA) is small. In other words, both the jawline and the occlusal plane are nearly equally downslanting. The lower jaw appears “swung” down.

A downgrown mandible is when the MPA is steeply downslanted and the OPA is pretty straight. The difference between the MPA and the OPA is big.

With a downswung mandible, bimax with counterclockwise rotation (CCW) has a strong potential to ascend.

With a downgrown-not-downswung mandible, there’s not much room for CCW. The amount of CCW that makes the MPA ideal is very un-ideal for the OPA; it’d make the occlusal plane angle upward-slanted, which looks really ugly and uncanny.

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane looks:

View attachment 3937507

Can I dm you for opinion on my surgeon’s plan for my trimax

 

[enlightful]

Also Downswung looks way better ngl tall face vs soy face

Nigga no it doesn't

Tall face=shit facial harmony and low fwhr

 

[LTNUser]

Nigga no it doesn't

Tall face=shit facial harmony and low fwhr

Fuck this site,I wanted to share a picture but it doesn't let me do it

 

[gigacumster3000]

you got this bro, good thread tbh! i think a lot of people here would find that really helpful and informative your bone structure looks pretty solid ngl, just gotta keep mewing consistently and youll see those improvements.

 

[kaydd]

A downswung mandible is when the mandibular plane angle (MPA) is steeply downslanted and the difference between the MPA and the occlusal plane angle (OPA) is small. In other words, both the jawline and the occlusal plane are nearly equally downslanting. The lower jaw appears “swung” down.

A downgrown mandible is when the MPA is steeply downslanted and the OPA is pretty straight. The difference between the MPA and the OPA is big.

With a downswung mandible, bimax with counterclockwise rotation (CCW) has a strong potential to ascend.

With a downgrown-not-downswung mandible, there’s not much room for CCW. The amount of CCW that makes the MPA ideal is very un-ideal for the OPA; it’d make the occlusal plane angle upward-slanted, which looks really ugly and uncanny.

How a too-CCW-ly rotated occlusal plane looks:

View attachment 3937507

Is it possible to measure between the two without any scans? Is a downward occlusal plane obvious enough as the mandible plane?

 

[Lookologist003]

Is it possible to measure between the two without any scans? Is a downward occlusal plane obvious enough as the mandible plane?

Is your smile gummy? That's the best approximation. Go get a scan.

---

@thecel I don't know if you already know this. There's some hope for the long midfaces of downgrown jaws.

This guy's before-and-after is dotted around the place. He underwent a surgery called Horseshoe Osteotomy. It's like maxillary impaction, but a slice of the maxilla precisely parallel to the occlusal plane is deducted. Usually I think it's a sector with the angle of CCW movement, that's how downswung patients are fixed. However, if your occlusal plane is right, it needs to be zero; the point of Horseshoe Osteotomy.

Now it's really quite remarkable and hopefuel because in the before he is downgrown, the problematic type of mismatch of dental planes. In the after, the surgeon snapped his MPA into two, and bent it into shape with staples. The midface is compacted because of the strip of bone that was exhumed. In the after his midface ratio is better, his MPA is better, and he gained a chin. Amazing result that is relevant to this thread and how to combat rare causes of long midface; not all long midfaces are caused by mouth breathing, and its your thread, and radiographs like in the before-and-after that helps us recognise and diagnose that.


Edit: whoops. Forgot to upload this annotated closeup of the radiograph. You can see more clearly what the surgeon set out to remove. Inspiring stuff. Genuine hopefuel.

 

[kaydd]

Is your smile gummy? That's the best approximation. Go get a scan.

Complete opposite of that . I have very minimal mandibular incisor display, although some reason people here dont think i have visible sfs.

 

[kaydd]

man fuck your thread i thought a ccw would save me

 

[kaydd]

bhai i really cant approximate my case based on everything ive read so far, mind taking a look at my side in pms?

 

[kaydd]

Is it more of a spectrum rather than a definitive case of downswuang vs downgrown?