Esr theory

[pcmaxing]

In theory , if you have close to normal ipd and one eye apart in between eyes …the culprit of fuxing up esr is wide cheeck bones

Wouldn’t bone shaving be a much better solution then doing a crazy surgery like obo ? Or is this theory horsehit ?

 

[chigoha]

depends, if you have wide cheekbones then you have a good margin of improvement from bone shaving

but if your cheekbones aren't even wide but still low es ratio then your ipd is the problem and bone shaving will just fuck you up even more

 

[pcmaxing]

depends, if you have wide cheekbones then you have a good margin of improvement from bone shaving

but if your cheekbones aren't even wide but still low es ratio then your ipd is the problem and bone shaving will just fuck you up even more

Nah I’m talking bout wide cheekbones causing it with close to normal ipd

 

[Deleted member 25339]

ideally you should fix close To normal iPd via obo but it is fairly far fetched, in a case with wide cheekbones it’s pretty much easier to go all in, cheekbone shaving, eyebrow lengthening and widening of alar bridge can efficiently overcome the issue of low iPd to the point it is unnoticeable irl or in photos even

 

[pcmaxing]

ideally you should fix close To normal iPd via obo but it is fairly far fetched, in a case with wide cheekbones it’s pretty much easier to go all in, cheekbone shaving, eyebrow lengthening and widening of alar bridge can efficiently overcome the issue of low iPd to the point it is unnoticeable irl or in photos even

What is the alar bridge ? I assume shaving Would help with pfl too ? Less canvas ti cover for smaller eyes ?

 

[Deleted member 22381]

I've considered this.

It's generally not recommended for a variety of reasons.

1. Your eyes may seem normal even wth low ipd simply because the pfl is low too.
2. It's rare that the zygos would be overly projected laterally to such an extent that it would be beneficial to shave them down. It's possible such a case could exist, but more often than not a bad esr ratio is due to the positioning of the eyes.
3. Shaving down the zygos brings its own host of further considerations... it may not fit the rest of your face well; it will require a tissue resuspension followup procedure to avoid sagging cheek skin; if one were to get infraorbital malar implants following the shaving, then the implants would have to be designed to only provide anterior projection vs both anterior and lateral projection, lest the original effect of the zygos shaving gets unintentionally undne and the es ratio is worsened again.
4. Broad consensus here is you generally want to enhance bone mass and projection, not take it away. Laterally projected zygos are thus viewed as ideal and it's once again the orbitals that are at the root of the issue...

The brutal reality is that in this day and age the only true fixes for the eye area are orbital osteotomies. They are expensive, rarely performed for aesthetic cases, and it's only very recently that safer subcranial modifications have been designed and discussed on this forum, so patients seeking to undergo them will be delving into semi-uncharted territory with little anecdotal support online.

My advice is to deeply consider whether you want to pursue ideal aesthetics, and thus commit yourself to greater time and financial constraints, or accept the limited yet still beneficial camoflauge procedures available.

I myself am planing on getting the box osteotomies, but I will be saving ample amounts of money to not only cover the cost of surgery, but to also to cover any potential revisonary procedures because this is NOT something you want to mess up.

Best of luck

 

[pcmaxing]

I've considered this.

It's generally not recommended for a variety of reasons.

1. Your eyes may seem normal even wth low ipd simply because the pfl is low too.
2. It's rare that the zygos would be overly projected laterally to such an extent that it would be beneficial to shave them down. It's possible such a case could exist, but more often than not a bad esr ratio is due to the positioning of the eyes.
3. Shaving down the zygos brings its own host of further considerations... it may not fit the rest of your face well; it will require a tissue resuspension followup procedure to avoid sagging cheek skin; if one were to get infraorbital malar implants following the shaving, then the implants would have to be designed to only provide anterior projection vs both anterior and lateral projection, lest the original effect of the zygos shaving gets unintentionally undne and the es ratio is worsened again.
4. Broad consensus here is you generally want to enhance bone mass and projection, not take it away. Laterally projected zygos are thus viewed as ideal and it's once again the orbitals that are at the root of the issue...

The brutal reality is that in this day and age the only true fixes for the eye area are orbital osteotomies. They are expensive, rarely performed for aesthetic cases, and it's only very recently that safer subcranial modifications have been designed and discussed on this forum, so patients seeking to undergo them will be delving into semi-uncharted territory with little anecdotal support online.

My advice is to deeply consider whether you want to pursue ideal aesthetics, and thus commit yourself to greater time and financial constraints, or accept the limited yet still beneficial camoflauge procedures available.

I myself am planing on getting the box osteotomies, but I will be saving ample amounts of money to not only cover the cost of surgery, but to also to cover any potential revisonary procedures because this is NOT something you want to mess up.

Best of luck

that’s the thing my ipd isnt very low. It’s normal or just a slight nudge below.. my esr is awful because my face is too wide making Esr more of a problem then ipa
i agree far majority of time people want face more broad but their are exceptions where face is too broad imo. like reverse of problem n imo I fall into that category

I’m still learning and could be wrong here And appreciate your value feedback , you surely have more knowledge on the subject then me at this point

I really need to get my bf down to 12% before trying to judge. I’m sure at 27% bf. My face would look diffevent if I wasn’t a dough boy and might sway to different opinio

 

[Octavian_Augustus]

that’s the thing my ipd isnt very low. It’s normal or just a slight nudge below.. my esr is awful because my face is too wide making Esr more of a problem then ipa
i agree far majority of time people want face more broad but their are exceptions where face is too broad imo. like reverse of problem n imo I fall into that category

I’m still learning and could be wrong here And appreciate your value feedback , you surely have more knowledge on the subject then me at this point

I really need to get my bf down to 12% before trying to judge. I’m sure at 27% bf. My face would look diffevent if I wasn’t a dough boy and might sway to different opinio

What's your raw IPD and ESR?

 

[Octavian_Augustus]

The brutal reality is that in this day and age the only true fixes for the eye area are orbital osteotomies. They are expensive, rarely performed for aesthetic cases, and it's only very recently that safer subcranial modifications have been designed and discussed on this forum, so patients seeking to undergo them will be delving into semi-uncharted territory with little anecdotal support online.

I don't think the subcranial mod was designed recently. I think it was designed by Paul Tessier a while back.

 

[Deleted member 16683]

I've considered this.

It's generally not recommended for a variety of reasons.

1. Your eyes may seem normal even wth low ipd simply because the pfl is low too.
2. It's rare that the zygos would be overly projected laterally to such an extent that it would be beneficial to shave them down. It's possible such a case could exist, but more often than not a bad esr ratio is due to the positioning of the eyes.
3. Shaving down the zygos brings its own host of further considerations... it may not fit the rest of your face well; it will require a tissue resuspension followup procedure to avoid sagging cheek skin; if one were to get infraorbital malar implants following the shaving, then the implants would have to be designed to only provide anterior projection vs both anterior and lateral projection, lest the original effect of the zygos shaving gets unintentionally undne and the es ratio is worsened again.
4. Broad consensus here is you generally want to enhance bone mass and projection, not take it away. Laterally projected zygos are thus viewed as ideal and it's once again the orbitals that are at the root of the issue...

The brutal reality is that in this day and age the only true fixes for the eye area are orbital osteotomies. They are expensive, rarely performed for aesthetic cases, and it's only very recently that safer subcranial modifications have been designed and discussed on this forum, so patients seeking to undergo them will be delving into semi-uncharted territory with little anecdotal support online.

My advice is to deeply consider whether you want to pursue ideal aesthetics, and thus commit yourself to greater time and financial constraints, or accept the limited yet still beneficial camoflauge procedures available.

I myself am planing on getting the box osteotomies, but I will be saving ample amounts of money to not only cover the cost of surgery, but to also to cover any potential revisonary procedures because this is NOT something you want to mess up.

Best of luck

jeez how much money do u think you'll spend on surgeries in total

 

[pcmaxing]

What's your raw IPD and ESR?

Ipd is 62 mm. This is slightly below average right ? Or am I wrong and this is awful number ?
Haven’t done esr. Waiting on calipers to give accurate number but I know it’s bad

 

[Deleted member 22381]

that’s the thing my ipd isnt very low. It’s normal or just a slight nudge below.. my esr is awful because my face is too wide making Esr more of a problem then ipa
i agree far majority of time people want face more broad but their are exceptions where face is too broad imo. like reverse of problem n imo I fall into that category

I’m still learning and could be wrong here And appreciate your value feedback , you surely have more knowledge on the subject then me at this point

I really need to get my bf down to 12% before trying to judge. I’m sure at 27% bf. My face would look diffevent if I wasn’t a dough boy and might sway to different opinio

Yes, low bf% and skin care are foundational before pursuing any surgery. Your esr with improve just from that alone.

If you are conflicted I would wait until you get to 12%, then make quality morphs of what each potential procedure would look like, then factor in the time and financial commitments for each and decide from there. Remember eye area is foundational to the rest of the face, so think about how all your ratios (ESR, FWHR, midface, etc) fit together before committing to one. Softmax -> eyes -> forward growth -> midface implants -> further tweaks

 

[Deleted member 22381]

jeez how much money do u think you'll spend on surgeries in total

Easily 100k +

Starting as a 4.25 psl, end goal is 6 psl. Will probably take 5 years at least. But honestly though 5 psl + is where things seriously start to improve, so after the first procedure or two I’ll get there and reap the rewards before I’m done with everything else.

 

[Octavian_Augustus]

Ipd is 62 mm. This is slightly below average right ? Or am I wrong and this is awful number ?
Haven’t done esr. Waiting on calipers to give accurate number but I know it’s bad

Hmm need ESR for more context but 62mm is low-ish. Not super low but different sources on the internet state 63,64, and 65mm averages for men's IPD so you are below them.

In that case it's probably a bit of an IPD issue but as long as your ESR isn't <0.43 it shouldn't be too bad (not ideal, but not too bad)

 

[Deleted member 16683]

Easily 100k +

Starting as a 4.25 psl, end goal is 6 psl. Will probably take 5 years at least. But honestly though 5 psl + is where things seriously start to improve, so after the first procedure or two I’ll get there and reap the rewards before I’m done with everything else.

6 psl is quite high but good luck

 

[Deleted member 22381]

6 psl is quite high but good luck

I'll post before and afters here (if I remember 2+ years from now) to see what the end result is

 

[Deleted member 16683]

I'll post before and afters here (if I remember 2+ years from now) to see what the end result is

what surgeries do you plan on getting? and what is 6 psl in your book

 

[Deleted member 22381]

what surgeries do you plan on getting? and what is 6 psl in your book

Basically everything lmao.

The biggest changes will be from:

Obo and tripod/orbital c in one go
Trimax

From there I'll assess if I'm satisfied or not. On paper I'd also benefit from infraorbital malars, cantho, supras, jaw angles, and commisuro, but you can only get so many procedures done before things start getting fucky... so I'll opt to get one thing done at a time, let months go by and reassess for revisions/uncanniness, and eventually decide on a stopping point.

If I'm feeling especially insane I could get an LL to go from 5'10->6'1. But that's another 100k and at this point I'd be at like 250k spent JFL

In theory I could reach chadite but in reality I'm probably gonna end up no higher than HTN. Base is bad so it'll take all the extreme stuff just to go up a little psl at a time

 

[HarrierDuBois]

In theory , if you have close to normal ipd and one eye apart in between eyes …the culprit of fuxing up esr is wide cheeck bones

Wouldn’t bone shaving be a much better solution then doing a crazy surgery like obo ? Or is this theory horsehit ?

Just get giants obo no brainer.

 

[Deleted member 16683]

Basically everything lmao.

The biggest changes will be from:

Obo and tripod/orbital c in one go
Trimax

From there I'll assess if I'm satisfied or not. On paper I'd also benefit from infraorbital malars, cantho, supras, jaw angles, and commisuro, but you can only get so many procedures done before things start getting fucky... so I'll opt to get one thing done at a time, let months go by and reassess for revisions/uncanniness, and eventually decide on a stopping point.

If I'm feeling especially insane I could get an LL to go from 5'10->6'1. But that's another 100k and at this point I'd be at like 250k spent JFL

In theory I could reach chadite but in reality I'm probably gonna end up no higher than HTN. Base is bad so it'll take all the extreme stuff just to go up a little psl at a time

obo? how bad is your ipd/esr?? and wtf is tripod/orbital c?

you say your base is bad but 4.25 psl is probably the same as me and you said i could reach chadlite. if i can so can you, we'll ascend together

 

[Deleted member 22381]

obo? how bad is your ipd/esr?? and wtf is tripod/orbital c?

you say your base is bad but 4.25 psl is probably the same as me and you said i could reach chadlite. if i can so can you, we'll ascend together

Obo = orbital box osteotomy
Tripod/orbital c = lateral extension of the orbital boxes, basically the only way to increase pfl

My eyes are death tier. 60mm ipd, 0.41 esr, deep frown lines if I don't get botox/filler every now and then. Only saving graces are long eyebrows and their blue color.


My face is really fucking weird man. I have a wide skull but low ipd and a boneless look, a recessed mandible but developed chin. So when it's all said and done I'm giga hardcapped at MTN. If I don't keep up with my skincare, injectables, heavy stubble, and bf% I rapidly descend to LTN/sub5.

 

[Deleted member 16683]

Obo = orbital box osteotomy
Tripod/orbital c = lateral extension of the orbital boxes, basically the only way to increase pfl

My eyes are death tier. 60mm ipd, 0.41 esr, deep frown lines if I don't get botox/filler every now and then. Only saving graces are long eyebrows and their blue color.


My face is really fucking weird man. I have a wide skull but low ipd and a boneless look, a recessed mandible but developed chin. So when it's all said and done I'm giga hardcapped at MTN. If I don't keep up with my skincare, injectables, heavy stubble, and bf% I rapidly descend to LTN/sub5.

how much does the tripod thing cost usually i want cat eye pfl

 

[Deleted member 22381]

how much does the tripod thing cost usually i want cat eye pfl

No idea. Absolutely no one in psl has gotten one yet. And only one guy has ever gotten an obo. I'm treating both together the same cost-wise an an LL. So 75-100k.

 

[Deleted member 16683]

No idea. Absolutely no one in psl has gotten one yet. And only one guy has ever gotten an obo. I'm treating both together the same cost-wise an an LL. So 75-100k.

can't a temporal lift give you similar results and widen your pfl?

 

[Deleted member 22381]

can't a temporal lift give you similar results and widen your pfl?

That fixes canthal tilt and droopy lids, which yields the illusion of a wider pfl if you have those failos, but only moving the orbital bones will truly increase pfl.

 

[pcmaxing]

Hmm need ESR for more context but 62mm is low-ish. Not super low but different sources on the internet state 63,64, and 65mm averages for men's IPD so you are below them.

In that case it's probably a bit of an IPD issue but as long as your ESR isn't <0.43 it shouldn't be too bad (not ideal, but not too bad)

Yea I saw the same thing , I looked around and average ipa was in the 63s mostly but a few sites said 65.. so for argument sake let’s say it’s 64. Not far off to consider such outragous surgeries but yes my cheekbones are very wide and it affects my Esr , where my Esr number is much worse then ipa and that’s more important.. so something has to be done

Just get giants obo no brainer.

is giants even a real place on is it a myth ? Lol

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Yea I saw the same thing , I looked around and average ipa was in the 63s mostly but a few sites said 65.. so for argument sake let’s say it’s 64. Not far off to consider such outragous surgeries but yes my cheekbones are very wide and it affects my Esr , where my Esr number is much worse then ipa and that’s more important.. so something has to be done

is giants even a real place on is it a myth ? Lol

I have spoken with him many times, not sure if he is in business yet but he is very knowledgeable so ask him for what you need he will help you.

 

[pcmaxing]

Basically everything lmao.

The biggest changes will be from:

Obo and tripod/orbital c in one go
Trimax

From there I'll assess if I'm satisfied or not. On paper I'd also benefit from infraorbital malars, cantho, supras, jaw angles, and commisuro, but you can only get so many procedures done before things start getting fucky... so I'll opt to get one thing done at a time, let months go by and reassess for revisions/uncanniness, and eventually decide on a stopping point.

If I'm feeling especially insane I could get an LL to go from 5'10->6'1. But that's another 100k and at this point I'd be at like 250k spent JFL

In theory I could reach chadite but in reality I'm probably gonna end up no higher than HTN. Base is bad so it'll take all the extreme stuff just to go up a little psl at a time

Where would you go for obo ? Eppley ?

 

[Deleted member 22381]

I have spoken with him many times, not sure if he is in business yet but he is very knowledgeable so ask him for what you need he will help you.

Yes the guy behind giants is big IQ

 

[Deleted member 22381]

Where would you go for obo ? Eppley ?

Overseas

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Yes the guy behind giants is big IQ

Legit everyone looksmaxxing should dm him on insta for advice, he is real af.

 

[pcmaxing]

Legit everyone looksmaxxing should dm him on insta for advice, he is real af.

I have reached out. Thx

 

[pcmaxing]

That fixes canthal tilt and droopy lids, which yields the illusion of a wider pfl if you have those failos, but only moving the orbital bones will truly increase pfl.

That fixes canthal tilt and droopy lids, which yields the illusion of a wider pfl if you have those failos, but only moving the orbital bones will truly increase pfl.

Temp lift is cantroplasty n ptosis ?

 

[ripcordgod1]

In theory , if you have close to normal ipd and one eye apart in between eyes …the culprit of fuxing up esr is wide cheeck bones

Wouldn’t bone shaving be a much better solution then doing a crazy surgery like obo ? Or is this theory horsehit ?

shit esr is usually caused by overdeveloped temples
men can get away with shit esr better since large temples are masculine but if they're too big u need botox