FacePulling might not work

[GetThatBread]

Ron states that if the maxilla moves forward, the bones behind won’t move accordingly as he has forgone AGGA and that didn’t happen.

@nelson @CopeAndRope thoughts?

 

[balding17yomanletcel]

Who fell for that shit anyway lol

 

[Luke LLL]

He is talking about tooth bourne appliances.

 

[GetThatBread]

He is talking about tooth bourne appliances.

isn’t Copes device tooth borne? Since you aren’t placing screws into the maxilla

 

[Luke LLL]

isn’t Copes device tooth borne? Since you aren’t placing screws into the maxilla

Well, it doesn't make contact with the teeth so I wouldn't say that.

 

[softLoverr]

Had a consultation with my ortho today, and he showed me before and afters of teens and adults who expanded + facepulled and the results mog anything you will find online, angles were the same etc very professional before and afters. The jaw itself didnt really alter that much however the eye support, paranasal area and zygos changes were incredible.

 

[curryslayerordeath]

Isn't this saying that if you're rapidly expanding the maxilla as he did, then the lower portions aren't able to fit in as well. If the goal is mainly aesthetics, the amount of expansion that you're doing won't be as much as his right? Also, upswing of the maxilla isn't related to the width so the facepulling shouldn't be affected.

Had a consultation with my ortho today, and he showed me before and afters of teens and adults who expanded + facepulled and the results mog anything you will find online, angles were the same etc very professional before and afters. The jaw itself didnt really alter that much however the eye support, paranasal area and zygos changes were incredible.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what treatment they did? This is lifefuel for me.

 

[CopeAndRope]

Had a consultation with my ortho today, and he showed me before and afters of teens and adults who expanded + facepulled and the results mog anything you will find online, angles were the same etc very professional before and afters. The jaw itself didnt really alter that much however the eye support, paranasal area and zygos changes were incredible.

And you didn't take a pic? Fag!

Ron states that if the maxilla moves forward, the bones behind won’t move accordingly as he has forgone AGGA and that didn’t happen.

@nelson @CopeAndRope thoughts?

Yes, the mandible can follow you until a certain point, then you have to expand that as well through surgery/DO.

 

[Luke LLL]

Had a consultation with my ortho today, and he showed me before and afters of teens and adults who expanded + facepulled and the results mog anything you will find online, angles were the same etc very professional before and afters. The jaw itself didnt really alter that much however the eye support, paranasal area and zygos changes were incredible.

Wtf bro get ahold of those images

 

[softLoverr]

Isn't this saying that if you're rapidly expanding the maxilla as he did, then the lower portions aren't able to fit in as well. If the goal is mainly aesthetics, the amount of expansion that you're doing won't be as much as his right? Also, upswing of the maxilla isn't related to the width so the facepulling shouldn't be affected.



Can you elaborate a bit more on what treatment they did? This is lifefuel for me.

What i found interesting is that they are using multiple force vectors not just the typical upwards and forward 30 degree angle, but they are also pulling downwards at the back of the maxilla while keeping both jaws shut at all time wich will allow for ccw rotation, thats what he said to me. Honestly i couldnt confirm if they got shortening of the maxilla , but the midface changed. Most patients mew lines changed by 1-3mms also but its kinda hard to measure really accurate imo.


7:00 Mike mew discussed that apparently some guy in tokyo had the same idea?

 

[GetThatBread]

What i found interesting is that they are using multiple force vectors not just the typical upwards and forward 30 degree angle, but they are also pulling downwards at the back of the maxilla while keeping both jaws shut at all time wich will allow for ccw rotation, thats what he said to me. Honestly i couldnt confirm if they got shortening of the maxilla , but the midface changed. Most patients mew lines changed by 1-3mms also but its kinda hard to measure really accurate imo.

7:00 Mike mew discussed that apparently some guy in tokyo had the same idea?

Which pulling degree is a better pulling option downward or 30 degrees upward and forward, also was it MSE? Or FacePulling

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

What i found interesting is that they are using multiple force vectors not just the typical upwards and forward 30 degree angle, but they are also pulling downwards at the back of the maxilla while keeping both jaws shut at all time wich will allow for ccw rotation, thats what he said to me. Honestly i couldnt confirm if they got shortening of the maxilla , but the midface changed. Most patients mew lines changed by 1-3mms also but its kinda hard to measure really accurate imo.


7:00 Mike mew discussed that apparently some guy in tokyo had the same idea?

Shorter midface, wider midface and projection

If this works it can revolutionise everything

 

[softLoverr]

major lifefuel, by expanded u mean through MSE correct and than facepulled?

also is ur insurance covering ur treatments or are you paying out of pocket and if u dont mind me asking than how much are you paying

Im just expanding atm, my upper palate imw is already 40mm+ so im not even sure if i want to get MSE, if i would get it, it would honestly be to loosen the sutures, making protraction easier. In my clinic in some cases they are using a screw based appliance ( like MSE ) and in other a more convetional hyrax expander. My ortho said that the screw type appliace is superior because it loosens the sutures making protraction easier, however he also told me that he can still achieve whole midface protraction using a more convetional expander , just takes longer and more effort. It goes agaisnt the belief that pulling on convetional expanders will just move the ridge forward.
Im paying 3k for the expander + braces ( if needed ) , he's charging arround 7-9k for the screw type appliance.

Shorter midface, wider midface and projection

If this works it can revolutionise everything

Set your expectations low, dont expect shorter midface , however you can expect wider midface and more projection. Also a more projecting midface has the ilusion of looking shorter and more compact.

 

[GetThatBread]

Im just expanding atm, my upper palate imw is already 40mm+ so im not even sure if i want to get MSE, if i would get it, it would honestly be to loosen the sutures, making protraction easier. In my clinic in some cases they are using a screw based appliance ( like MSE ) and in other a more convetional hyrax expander. My ortho said that the screw type appliace is superior because it loosens the sutures making protraction easier, however he also told me that he can still achieve whole midface protraction using a more convetional expander , just takes longer and more effort. It goes agaisnt the belief that pulling on convetional expanders will just move the ridge forward.
Im paying 3k for the expander + braces ( if needed ) , he's charging arround 7-9k for the screw type appliance.


Set your expectations low, dont expect shorter midface , however you can expect wider midface and more projection. Also a more projecting midface has the ilusion of looking shorter and more compact.

Which device are you talking about? A bone borne device that will project a mid face that looks shorter and compact? Or a conventional expander, I’m assuming that’s one that isn’t bone borne and more teeth based

 

[Deleted member 685]

Had a consultation with my ortho today, and he showed me before and afters of teens and adults who expanded + facepulled and the results mog anything you will find online, angles were the same etc very professional before and afters. The jaw itself didnt really alter that much however the eye support, paranasal area and zygos changes were incredible.

Lifefuel, what are you planning on getting with your ortho?

 

[curryslayerordeath]

What i found interesting is that they are using multiple force vectors not just the typical upwards and forward 30 degree angle, but they are also pulling downwards at the back of the maxilla while keeping both jaws shut at all time wich will allow for ccw rotation, thats what he said to me. Honestly i couldnt confirm if they got shortening of the maxilla , but the midface changed. Most patients mew lines changed by 1-3mms also but its kinda hard to measure really accurate imo.


7:00 Mike mew discussed that apparently some guy in tokyo had the same idea?

How did they pull in both directions at opposite ends of the maxilla? Isn't there only one set of things to attach the facepuller to?

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

How did they pull in both directions at opposite ends of the maxilla? Isn't there only one set of things to attach the facepuller to?

I'm wondering too

 

[SayNoToRotting]

FAGGA creates spaces between the molars you pillock, it's not comparable to a facepuller in any shape or form.

Because a facepuller doesn't have two anchor points forcefully moving apart from each other- like AGGA- the maxilla as a whole and thus the termomandibular joint come foreward together.

 

[curryslayerordeath]

FAGGA creates spaces between the molars you pillock, it's not comparable to a facepuller in any shape or form.

Because a facepuller doesn't have two anchor points forcefully moving apart from each other- like AGGA- the maxilla as a whole and thus the termomandibular joint come foreward together.

Theoretically, this should help with TMJ pain (I think it's called TMD) right? I've been suffering from this a lot and recently found out its probably due to the recessed maxilla.

 

[softLoverr]

How did they pull in both directions at opposite ends of the maxilla? Isn't there only one set of things to attach the facepuller to?

This looks very scuffed btw just edited in paint lol, but its something like this: ( You gotta click the pic btw to zoom in )

So most people just rely on the vector 1 , however my ortho uses 2 pulling vectors ( 1 and 2 ) , which in theory creates the ccw movement.

 

[Deleted member 3591]

This looks very scuffed btw just edited in paint lol, but its something like this: ( You gotta click the pic btw to zoom in )
View attachment 197246

So most people just rely on the vector 1 , however my ortho uses 2 pulling vectors ( 1 and 2 ) , which in theory creates the ccw movement.

Anything new on this? Also from what country is this ortho