Finasteride worse than it seems? [GTFIH]

[Jonas2k7]

Hi guys, I've been lurking for awhile but the time has come for me to post... I really need your help, PLEASE. I don't know what to do anymore and my health and quality of life has been ruined thanks to Finasteride.

LAB ATTACHMENTS ARE INCLUDED IN THIS POST.

I am 27 years old, 5'10, 150lbs. I took Finasteride (Proscar) quartered 1.25mg/day for 11 months when I was 25-26 for hairloss. It has now been 14 months since I quit (cold turkey) and I have still not recovered from the side effects I experienced. This was after I was told by my doctor and MERCK's literature that any side effects would resolve upon discontinuation of the drug.

Prior to Finasteride I was a perfectly healthy 25 yr old guy, I loved to have sex, could get hard at the drop of a hat, was always horny and mentally sharp. Now a year and a half later I'm a shell of my former self, and am STILL experiencing side effects that manifested while on the drug, including:


Sexual:
---------
- Low libido, no primal desire for sex, never horny
- No spontaneous, morning or nocturnal erections
- Numb feeling/lack of sensitivity in penis/balls, rubbery penis
- Penis/nuts extremely wrinkled when flaccid, constantly retreating
- Penile/scrotum shrinkage
- Porn/girls don't turn me on anymore (nothing happens down there)
- Some penis curvature and rotation on axis to left
- Semen volume/shooting distance decrease
- Semen consistency change from thick creamy white before fin, to clear and watery while on fin.... after fin, semen is somewhat thick and sheet yellow/white in color.
- Loss of erections soon after penetration, unable to sustain


Mental:
--------
- Brain fog, difficulty remembering things, forgetfulness
- Stumbling over words, tongue tied, slurring of speech
- Emotional blunting / no feelings
- Lack of energy, interest in hobbies, no passion to do anything anymore


Physical:
--------
Pseudo-gyno


When I quit on October 1, 2005, my dick was shrivelled, totally numb and tingly, and completely lifeless... I couldn't feel anything down there anymore. I couldnt get turned on, my jizz was like water and I felt like I was constantly out of it mentally, and always tired. Also by this point I was experiencing full-blown panic attacks, anxiety, weight gain and the beginnings of puffy nips/gyno (I had major chest pains in month 6 -- should have recognized the signs).

2 weeks after I quit I felt a massive flood of DHT come back into my system. I felt horny and alive again!!! I could get turned on no problem, erections were 100%, jizz volume great, penis/balls were full size.

3 months later by January 2006, the flood of DHT had disappeared and I felt like complete crap... my system had crashed. At this point I got my first labs drawn.


LABS (Canadian values):
-----------------------

1. January 2006 (3 months off):
- low T (12.8 nmo/L, range 8.4-28.7 = 388 in US)
- high TSH (4.54, range 0.30-5.50).

Family doctor refused to believe Finasteride could be causing these problems, said everything was in my head. I knew it wasn't and by this point I had found the Yahoo Finasteride Side Effects forum. I came to realize there were hundreds of other men who had their HPTA screwed by finasteride, and have yet to recover.

2. May 2006 (8 months off) - 2nd blood test:
- T went up to 17.3 (519)
- TSH went down to 2.33
- Estradiol 154 (43 US terms)
- LH 2.0 (2.0-18) ... BORDERLINE
- FSH 2.1 (2.0-18) ... BORDERLINE
- Also had a semen test - came back fertile.

I realized at this point I was experiencing symptoms of secondary hypogonadism. Again my doctor shrugged things off and told me to come back in 6 months.


TODAY:
--------

December 2006 (14 months off):

- Have since seen a world-reknowned Urologist who basically told me this was all in my head and claimed all my values were "normal", yet found it "interesting" that I had no morning, noctunals or spontaneous wood.
- Prescribed me Viagra (at 27!!!) and sent me on my way.

Even though its been 14 months since I quit, I am still experiencing all of the above side effects, and nothing has really improved. My main issue is still the lack of sex drive, penis/nuts shrinkage, reduced ejaculate and difficulty getting erections (due to lack of libido).

I am seeing another local Endo in March but may get new labs before then (they cost me $) to check Estradiol, Total T, TSH, LH, FSH, Prolactin, Progesterone, SHBG, DHT, AST, ALT, DHEA-s, Cortisol, Albumin, and Free Testosterone.

--------------

TREATMENT HELP:

Well, here's where I need your guys' help and expert opinions...

Basically... HOW CAN I GET BACK TO NORMAL? I understand HCG and Clomid can be used to jumpstart the HPTA... but for how long after you've been shutdown? Does anyone even know how or why Fin screws up the HTPA in the first place (besides blocking DHT/T upregulation/extra aromatization to E?)

Based on my last labs, my best guess is to get my Estradiol under control (apparently its high?) to correct the T/E ratio, and see where Prolactin and SHBG are with my next labs. I understand the former can shutdown T production/the latter binds Free T, which is crucial for libido. Hopefully by correcting those hormones LH will be stimulated and T/FSH will rise again?

However, eventually I think I will make an appointment to see Dr John or Shippens in the US. I understand they have experience treating men shutdown my Fin... but if anyone knows a doctor or endo in Canada that has treated Finasteride patientsthen please let me know... I really don't want to have to resort to going on TRT for life (if I could even find a doc willing to work with me on it).


Thanks in advance for any and all insight, I feel like a shell of my former self but I know there must be a way to beat this.

You guys are the best.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/finasteride-5ari-induced-associated-effects.134248317/

TLDR: OP took 1.25mg of Finasteride for 11 months and experienced long-term side effects including:

• low libido, decreased semen production and quality, loss of erections
• lack of energy, brain fog, overall mental issues
• pseudogyno

Just wanted to share this

@Orc @Chintuck22

 

[Orc]

I never experienced any sides at all, not even watery cum.

 

[Shkreliii]

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/finasteride-5ari-induced-associated-effects.134248317/

TLDR: OP took 1.25mg of Finasteride for 11 months and experienced long-term side effects including:

• low libido, decreased semen production and quality, loss of erections
• lack of energy, brain fog, overall mental issues
• pseudogyno

Just wanted to share this

@Orc @Chintuck22

topical

 

[Jonas2k7]

topical

Oral

 

[Always Stay You]

Androgen deprivation is one of the most dangerous things for a developing male. The younger the worse and the higher chance of sides, potentially terminal and very serious ones.

DHT deprivation can result in atrophy of cells within the penis, resulting in penile shrinkage and perma bad eq. And mentally it can change you completely. It can take the joy out of life permanently aka anhedonia

In my life I have had 2 brains and I have been 2 different people - one before finasteride and one after

 

[Always Stay You]

I never experienced any sides at all, not even watery cum.

What age did you start taking

 

[Jonas2k7]

I never experienced any sides at all, not even watery cum.

Why do some individuals experience side effects and some don't? Are there parameters to look out for which could influence the likelyhood of experiencing sides on fin/dut?

 

[nuisance]

This is basically describing post finasteride syndrome which is still highly debated in the scientific community.

I personally have reduced libido and gyno pain.

 

[Orc]

What age did you start taking

like two years ago at 29 or something.

Why do some individuals experience side effects and some don't? Are there parameters to look out for which could influence the likelyhood of experiencing sides on fin/dut?

DHT levels, estrogen sensitivity.

 

[Always Stay You]

Minimum age to start finasteride should be 25 I'm serious. I understand gambling it and starting younger if you are severely balding and want to have a chance to get girls while you young, but you should know you are gambling with the very essence of who you are.

And it is definitely not worth taking young as a "preventative measure", the risk vs reward is too bad

Honestly i would advise everyone to stay clear and just wear a wig

 

[nuisance]

Why do some individuals experience side effects and some don't? Are there parameters to look out for which could influence the likelyhood of experiencing sides on fin/dut?

There is nothing you can look for.

What I believe is that some men need DHT to antagonize estrogen, like me. My bloods are perfect yet I have symptoms of estrogen activity when on finasteride which causes side effects like gyno and low libido.

In this post this man is describing post finasteride syndrome which the theory is that when stopping the drug dht rushes back into the system overwhelming the androgen receptiors and shutting them down. However, there is no concrete evidence that this happens. There are plenty of men that get off finasteride or even dut after years of use and are perfectly fine.

 

[Always Stay You]

This is basically describing post finasteride syndrome which is still highly debated in the scientific community.

I personally have reduced libido and gyno pain.

Reality of PFS becoming less and less debated as more evidence comes out. The joos obviously don't want it getting out though

 

[nuisance]

Minimum age to start finasteride should be 25 I'm serious. I understand gambling it and starting younger if you are severely balding and want to have a chance to get girls while you young, but you should know you are gambling with the very essence of who you are.

And it is definitely not worth taking young as a "preventative measure", the risk vs reward is too bad

Honestly i would advise everyone to stay clear and just wear a wig

its easy to say that until you are 20 and see your hairline retreating, and then also looking at your family history and seeing how fast that will happen.

 

[Always Stay You]

like two years ago at 29 or something.

It's still a risky age tbh. If youre not actually balding I wouldnt do it. But if you have gone years taking with no sides then its probably fine

 

[Orc]

It's still a risky age tbh. If youre not actually balding I wouldnt do it. But if you have gone years taking with no sides then its probably fine

I wasn't balding and it's not risky, most people get no sides and those that do don't have them long term.

 

[nuisance]

Reality of PFS becoming less and less debated as more evidence comes out. The joos obviously don't want it getting out though

There is no evidence only anecdotes. Studies that say otherwise are funded by the PFS foundation which prey on people for their money. Its very easy to convince someone that their dick is permanently screwed if they have problems with the drug in the first place. An erection is mainly mental.

 

[Always Stay You]

its easy to say that until you are 20 and see your hairline retreating, and then also looking at your family history and seeing how fast that will happen.

The truth is if it is that bad at TWENTY there is little chance fin will save you. Your genetics are probably too strong for the drug to be effective. It might buy you a few years but at the potential cost of some extremely fucked up side effects that will stay with you for life potentially.

I understand the pressure you'd feel to take it balding young but just know you are gambling with your life

 

[Jonas2k7]

like two years ago at 29 or something.


DHT levels, estrogen sensitivity.

Fin is reducing 5-alpha-reductase (conversion of testosterone into DHT) so there is more free test available which could then be converted into estradiol. Does that mean that the test increase from fin leads to higher aromatization and inducing the common side effects of high estrogen? (gyno, mental aspects, etc.)

So a solution to this problem could be the use of serms or aromatase inhibitors in combination with finasteride?

 

[Maalik]

The truth is if it is that bad at TWENTY there is little chance fin will save you. Your genetics are probably too strong for the drug to be effective. It might buy you a few years but at the potential cost of some extremely fucked up side effects that will stay with you for life potentially.

I understand the pressure you'd feel to take it balding young but just know you are gambling with your life

A real cure is coming out in the next 5 years.
mark my words

 

[Always Stay You]

I wasn't balding and it's not risky, most people get no sides and those that do don't have them long term.

It is retarded to take if you're showing no signs of balding. Ye most don't get sides but the sides you could get are so bad I would say don't risk it unless you are actually visibly going bald.

 

[Maalik]

Fin is reducing 5-alpha-reductase (conversion of testosterone into DHT) so there is more free test available which could then be converted into estradiol. Does that mean that the test increase from fin leads to higher aromatization and inducing the common side effects of high estrogen? (gyno, mental aspects, etc.)

So a solution to this problem could be the use of serms or aromatase inhibitors in combination with finasteride?

so tke one jew med to block hairloss then another jew med to block the side effects lol

 

[Always Stay You]

A cure for PFS would be more of a gift to this world than a cure for baldness

 

[ey88]

Dnr

Losing hair is worse than any side effects of fin

 

[Maalik]

A cure for PFS would be more of a gift to this world than a cure for baldness

Uh no. only a few people even have PFS whereas like 20% men every gen go bald

 

[Always Stay You]

Dnr

Losing hair is worse than any side effects of fin

 

[Jonas2k7]

A real cure is coming out in the next 5 years.
mark my words

The jews won't let this happen

It is retarded to take if you're showing no signs of balding. Ye most don't get sides but the sides you could get are so bad I would say don't risk it unless you are actually visibly going bald.

Prevention

so tke one jew med to block hairloss then another jew med to block the side effects lol

Basically

 

[Maalik]

memes from boomer facebook

 

[Always Stay You]

Uh no. only a few people even have PFS whereas like 20% men every gen go bald

I am not balding and have PFS. I would seriously rather go bald than have PFS, and I would trade like 3 inches of height to get my old brain back

 

[Maalik]

The jews won't let this happen

Prevention

Basically

They cant stop me
i am working on an epigenetic solution to make scalp hair respond to androgens like beard hair. So the scalp hair will grow in response to dht instead.

 

[Orc]

Fin is reducing 5-alpha-reductase (conversion of testosterone into DHT) so there is more free test available which could then be converted into estradiol. Does that mean that the test increase from fin leads to higher aromatization and inducing the common side effects of high estrogen? (gyno, mental aspects, etc.)

So a solution to this problem could be the use of serms or aromatase inhibitors in combination with finasteride?

yes, more testosterone means more estrogen, and some people are very sensitive to estrogen, others don't even respond to pregnant woman tier levels.

It is retarded to take if you're showing no signs of balding. Ye most don't get sides but the sides you could get are so bad I would say don't risk it unless you are actually visibly going bald.

your hairline recedes before you typically start balding, ideally you want to prevent your juvenile hairline from ever going away.

 

[Maalik]

I am not balding and have PFS. I would seriously rather go bald than have PFS, and I would trade like 3 inches of height to get my old brain back

the thing is.
you need to understand something. Finasteride doesn't lower brain DHT jfl.

Finasteride blocks type 2 dht enzymes. These dont exist in the brain. They exist inside hair follicles.

The dht in your brain does not change with finasteride. So how could you get mental side effects from Fin?

 

[nuisance]

The truth is if it is that bad at TWENTY there is little chance fin will save you. Your genetics are probably too strong for the drug to be effective. It might buy you a few years but at the potential cost of some extremely fucked up side effects that will stay with you for life potentially.

I understand the pressure you'd feel to take it balding young but just know you are gambling with your life

The science says otherwise, finasteride stops hairloss. Im a nw2 right now there is men that are nw4 in their early 20s that respond well to finasteride and regrow most of their hair and keep it.

Also that kind of rhetoric you are pushing is the reason why people get "pfs" you never experienced pfs so how can you say its real or that you are gambling with your life.

Imagine you are someone that has a low libido on finasteride and starts reading these posts on fourms. Its very easy to pacebo yourself into making your dick not work. I would say 80% of people that claim to have pfs dont really have pfs, most are just have a anxious personality and are hypochondriacs.

 

[nuisance]

the thing is.
you need to understand something. Finasteride doesn't lower brain DHT jfl.

Finasteride blocks type 2 dht enzymes. These dont exist in the brain. They exist inside hair follicles.

The dht in your brain does not change with finasteride. So how could you get mental side effects from Fin?

Not a very good argument more estrogen activity, inhibition of progesterone, and neurosteroid issues are all possiblie resosons for mental side effects on finasteride.

 

[Maalik]

Not a very good argument more estrogen activity, inhibition of progesterone, and neurosteroid issues are all possiblie resosons for mental side effects on finasteride.

kyou may get depressed on fin then.
but you will definitely get depressed as a baldcel

 

[nuisance]

h

I am not balding and have PFS. I would seriously rather go bald than have PFS, and I would trade like 3 inches of height to get my old brain back

how do you have pfs, why would you take finasteride if you are not balding

 

[Jonas2k7]

yes, more testosterone means more estrogen, and some people are very sensitive to estrogen, others don't even respond to pregnant woman tier levels.

Taking serds and sards should reduce the sensitivity to these hormones then? I don't understand why this isn't the solution to this whole problem? That's the whole point of serds and sards, reducing the sensitivity to certain hormones

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Why are you linking somebody else's anecdotal experiences?

 

[Jonas2k7]

Why are you linking somebody else's anecdotal experiences?

 

[nuisance]

kyou may get depressed on fin then.
but you will definitely get depressed as a baldcel

I agree with that. Just the side effects are not caused by lower dht if you have adequate testosterone they are caused by implications of lowering the dht on the hormone balance. Also inhibiting 5ar inhibits progesterone aswell.

 

[Orc]

Taking serds and sards should reduce the sensitivity to these hormones then? I don't understand why this isn't the solution to this whole problem? That's the whole point of serds and sards, reducing the sensitivity to certain hormones

you can't keep taking them forever, some turn your blood into glue.

 

[NZb6Air]

Why do some individuals experience side effects and some don't? Are there parameters to look out for which could influence the likelyhood of experiencing sides on fin/dut?

nigger differences in gabaergic signalling, allopregnanolone etc, it's not just about dht

 

[Jonas2k7]

you can't keep taking them forever, some turn your blood into glue.

Aren't they permanently degrading the receptors?

 

[Always Stay You]

The science says otherwise, finasteride stops hairloss. Im a nw2 right now there is men that are nw4 in their early 20s that respond well to finasteride and regrow most of their hair and keep it.

Also that kind of rhetoric you are pushing is the reason why people get "pfs" you never experienced pfs so how can you say its real or that you are gambling with your life.

Imagine you are someone that has a low libido on finasteride and starts reading these posts on fourms. Its very easy to pacebo yourself into making your dick not work. I would say 80% of people that claim to have pfs dont really have pfs, most are just have a anxious personality and are hypochondriacs.

Bro, you simply cannot understand because you dont have it and dont want to believe its real. You also probably dont want to nocebo yourself into feeling PFS symptoms. But I will tell you now not to worry about this because if you start actually experiencing it you will know.

It is not normal ED. Its like a different dick. Something feels very very off with your sexual functioning like muscle relaxants go injected into your dick. Its weird. My sexual sides aren't bad compared to others but considering how I used to be they are quite severe. People literally experience dick shrinkage due to atrophied penile tissue. NO MAN WANTS TO ADMIT TO THIS OR ACCEPT THEIR COCK HAS DESCENDED.

I am a normal dude. Not a hypochondriac. I have happy temperament but the drastic mental sides I experienced were very real and very difficult. It is a total blunting of emotion and a total anhedonia. You also feel brain damaged with heavy brainfog and slow cognition.

I would agree though that not everyone has it who thinks they do. There are a lot of soy balding men taking fin already probably with fucked hormones and now they have an excuse for their ED. But don't pretend because of these few that PFS is not real, more research is proving it everyday.

 

[Always Stay You]

the thing is.
you need to understand something. Finasteride doesn't lower brain DHT jfl.

Finasteride blocks type 2 dht enzymes. These dont exist in the brain. They exist inside hair follicles.

The dht in your brain does not change with finasteride. So how could you get mental side effects from Fin?

It is much more completed than just DHT deprivation. Its the downstream hormone signalling and influence on neurosteroids that are believed to be large parts of the condition

 

[Jonas2k7]

nigger differences in gabaergic signalling, allopregnanolone etc, it's not just about dht

I'm learning about all this hormone shit rn so thank you

Isn't DHT the only important factor for the miniaturization of hair follicles?

 

[Orc]

Aren't they permanently degrading the receptors?

no.

 

[NZb6Air]

I'm learning about all this hormone shit rn so thank you

Isn't DHT the only important factor for the miniaturization of hair follicles?

yes but dht duta nuke 5alpha reductase which converts other shit besides dht like allopregnanolone

 

[nuisance]

Bro, you simply cannot understand because you dont have it and dont want to believe its real. You also probably dont want to nocebo yourself into feeling PFS symptoms. But I will tell you now not to worry about this because if you start actually experiencing it you will know.

It is not normal ED. Its like a different dick. Something feels very very off with your sexual functioning like muscle relaxants go injected into your dick. Its weird. My sexual sides aren't bad compared to others but considering how I used to be they are quite severe. People literally experience dick shrinkage due to atrophied penile tissue. NO MAN WANTS TO ADMIT TO THIS OR ACCEPT THEIR COCK HAS DESCENDED.

I am a normal dude. Not a hypochondriac. I have happy temperament but the drastic mental sides I experienced were very real and very difficult. It is a total blunting of emotion and a total anhedonia. You also feel brain damaged with heavy brainfog and slow cognition.

I would agree though that not everyone has it who thinks they do. There are a lot of soy balding men taking fin already probably with fucked hormones and now they have an excuse for their ED. But don't pretend because of these few that PFS is not real, more research is proving it everyday.

I understand I dont want to discount you, how long has it been and did you have a "crash" like people say or did you get it while being on the drug.

You were on finasteride correct?

 

[BimaxLaser]

yes, more testosterone means more estrogen, and some people are very sensitive to estrogen, others don't even respond to pregnant woman tier levels.



your hairline recedes before you typically start balding, ideally you want to prevent your juvenile hairline from ever going away.

Im nw2 at 20,5 yrs old. Should I hope on in your opinion?

 

[Always Stay You]

I understand I dont want to discount you, how long has it been and did you have a "crash" like people say or did you get it while being on the drug.

You were on finasteride correct?

I was on fin as a young teen and got sides while on the drug. My dick grew after and I have matured. And it was so bad I had to have test done by doctors but my development has been "normal" since. The mental sides have remained though and my EQ has been reduced.

Mainly for me its mental sides although my sexual functioning has been permanently diminished by it. I am a completely different person now. Like I said I think of my life as being "pre and post fin". It sounds melodramatic but the mental sides really were that dramatic for me. Like I said im a happy dude and blackpilled from a long time so i would always be reluctant to admit I have this debilitating subhuman mythical syndrome. But what it did to me was just too brutal to try and ignore and cope. Its why I warn people about it. If it werent for me having a happy go lucky temperament i would have probably roped like many do from these side effects.

The single "good" thing about getting PFS young is the neuroplasticity you have as a juvenile supposedly allows for better healing of mental side effects. So although the younger you are the worse the sides, the more chance you have of healing.