GO TO FRANCE FOR ASCENSION TOMORROW

[DonaldJTrump]

If you want to ascend ASAP then France is very underrated for surgery. Not only are they first world, high quality, and well developed (Not a Brazil, Turkey, or Russia, also they are white so you won't get botched like you would in Korea where there's different beauty standards), but they are extremely affordable!

With Italy becoming more popular and prices going through the roof, it is time for us to start looking elsewhere. You have to wait half a year to consult with Ramieri! Raffaini charges 500 Euros for one consult! Italian bimax is experiencing severe inflation!

"Now, to address your enquiry, here's a list of French maxfac/orthognathic surgeons compiled by @LackEmpathyTherefor

Jean-Baptiste Charrier (over charges because of international hype)
Pierre Bouletreu
Didier Ernenwein
Gonzague Deffrennes
Emmanuel Racy
Serge Ketoff
Frederic Barere
Pierre Olivi
Jacques Yachouh
Jacques Chardai
Amaury Gindre
Jean-Pascal Dujoncquoy
Thierry Loncle (will most likely overcharge cuz of international hype I think)
Jean-Christophe Lutz

Their prices are sometimes openly displayed on their website. A regular genio will cost approx. 4-5K€ on average.

There is no obvious reason for these French surgeons to be less skilled than their Italian counterparts. The difference will mostly come down to repeated experience with the procedure in question."

Even if you're skeptical I think everyone should at least do some research and consult with some French surgeons before they totally decide on going to Turkey, Italy, or staying local/domestic.

Anyone have any other French surgeon recommendations? Name some or leave any comments below, thanks

 

[kaydd]

@vermicel how similar is your list to his?

 

[kaydd]

Might be stating the obvious but noway the after doesn't have some level of editing

(bimax results)

 

[Blackpillirony]

If you want to ascend ASAP then France is very underrated for surgery. Not only are they first world, high quality, and well developed (Not a Brazil, Turkey, or Russia, also they are white so you won't get botched like you would in Korea where there's different beauty standards), but they are extremely affordable!

With Italy becoming more popular and prices going through the roof, it is time for us to start looking elsewhere. You have to wait half a year to consult with Ramieri! Raffaini charges 500 Euros for one consult! Italian bimax is experiencing severe inflation!

"Now, to address your enquiry, here's a list of French maxfac/orthognathic surgeons compiled by @LackEmpathyTherefor

Jean-Baptiste Charrier (over charges because of international hype)
Pierre Bouletreu
Didier Ernenwein
Gonzague Deffrennes
Emmanuel Racy
Serge Ketoff
Frederic Barere
Pierre Olivi
Jacques Yachouh
Jacques Chardai
Amaury Gindre
Jean-Pascal Dujoncquoy
Thierry Loncle (will most likely overcharge cuz of international hype I think)
Jean-Christophe Lutz

Their prices are sometimes openly displayed on their website. A regular genio will cost approx. 4-5K€ on average.

There is no obvious reason for these French surgeons to be less skilled than their Italian counterparts. The difference will mostly come down to repeated experience with the procedure in question."

Even if you're skeptical I think everyone should at least do some research and consult with some French surgeons before they totally decide on going to Turkey, Italy, or staying local/domestic.

Anyone have any other French surgeon recommendations? Name some or leave any comments below, thanks

@TonyDr lifefuel

 

[monk321]

If you want to ascend ASAP then France is very underrated for surgery. Not only are they first world, high quality, and well developed (Not a Brazil, Turkey, or Russia, also they are white so you won't get botched like you would in Korea where there's different beauty standards), but they are extremely affordable!

With Italy becoming more popular and prices going through the roof, it is time for us to start looking elsewhere. You have to wait half a year to consult with Ramieri! Raffaini charges 500 Euros for one consult! Italian bimax is experiencing severe inflation!

"Now, to address your enquiry, here's a list of French maxfac/orthognathic surgeons compiled by @LackEmpathyTherefor

Jean-Baptiste Charrier (over charges because of international hype)
Pierre Bouletreu
Didier Ernenwein
Gonzague Deffrennes
Emmanuel Racy
Serge Ketoff
Frederic Barere
Pierre Olivi
Jacques Yachouh
Jacques Chardai
Amaury Gindre
Jean-Pascal Dujoncquoy
Thierry Loncle (will most likely overcharge cuz of international hype I think)
Jean-Christophe Lutz

Their prices are sometimes openly displayed on their website. A regular genio will cost approx. 4-5K€ on average.

There is no obvious reason for these French surgeons to be less skilled than their Italian counterparts. The difference will mostly come down to repeated experience with the procedure in question."

Even if you're skeptical I think everyone should at least do some research and consult with some French surgeons before they totally decide on going to Turkey, Italy, or staying local/domestic.

Anyone have any other French surgeon recommendations? Name some or leave any comments below, thanks

italians are trash anyway , literally no point going with them they are just overhyped. Plenty of better surgeons with better prices and better waiting list out there.

 

[yussimania]

italians are trash anyway , literally no point going with them they are just overhyped. Plenty of better surgeons with better prices and better waiting list out there.

Trash? No
Over hyped? Yes

 

[monk321]

Trash? No
Over hyped? Yes

They are on par with turkish surgeons at best if not worse. 0 planning skills , overadvancement ,asymmetries, awful step off and more...

 

[yussimania]

They are on par with turkish surgeons at best if not worse. 0 planning skills , overadvancement ,asymmetries, awful step off and more...

Ramieri is bad when it comes to genioplasties a majority of the results you can see have visible notches that normies pick up on - for DJS he's ok still better and more ethical than Turkish surgeons

In B4 Denkaren replies to this with some long ass paragraph

Pagnoni is good for stuff that isn't DJS imo like genio or implants

Step offs will probably happen if you change the height of the chin not much you can do unless you fill in that notch with a material

 

[monk321]

Ramieri is bad when it comes to genioplasties a majority of the results you can see have visible notches that normies pick up on - for DJS he's ok still better and more ethical than Turkish surgeons

In B4 Denkaren replies to this with some long ass paragraph

Pagnoni is good for stuff that isn't DJS imo like genio or implants

Step offs will probably happen if you change the height of the chin not much you can do unless you fill in that notch with a material

Idk i would never go with them , especially Ramieri that genioplasty case where he decided to advance a guy like 15mm with genio insted of giving him djs was enough for me to classify him as a complete moron.

About pagnoni i would only consider him for implants even tho implants get botched realistically 80% of the times. (extremely high botch rate with djs , overadvances every genio)

Raffaini is pure shit.

Nobody of them does bone graft afaik btw so ye it's inevitable that you'll have step off because of their incompetence.

 

[Ascension75]

Raffaini is pure shit.

Nobody of them does bone graft afaik btw so ye it's inevitable that you'll have step off because of their incompetence.

Why is raffaini pure shit?

 

[monk321]

Why is raffaini pure shit?

He has most botches (especially functional) of all and on top of that he is the one with the highest narcisistic traits

 

[Lefor3Laser]

If you want to ascend ASAP then France is very underrated for surgery. Not only are they first world, high quality, and well developed (Not a Brazil, Turkey, or Russia, also they are white so you won't get botched like you would in Korea where there's different beauty standards), but they are extremely affordable!

With Italy becoming more popular and prices going through the roof, it is time for us to start looking elsewhere. You have to wait half a year to consult with Ramieri! Raffaini charges 500 Euros for one consult! Italian bimax is experiencing severe inflation!

"Now, to address your enquiry, here's a list of French maxfac/orthognathic surgeons compiled by @LackEmpathyTherefor

Jean-Baptiste Charrier (over charges because of international hype)
Pierre Bouletreu
Didier Ernenwein
Gonzague Deffrennes
Emmanuel Racy
Serge Ketoff
Frederic Barere
Pierre Olivi
Jacques Yachouh
Jacques Chardai
Amaury Gindre
Jean-Pascal Dujoncquoy
Thierry Loncle (will most likely overcharge cuz of international hype I think)
Jean-Christophe Lutz

Their prices are sometimes openly displayed on their website. A regular genio will cost approx. 4-5K€ on average.

There is no obvious reason for these French surgeons to be less skilled than their Italian counterparts. The difference will mostly come down to repeated experience with the procedure in question."

Even if you're skeptical I think everyone should at least do some research and consult with some French surgeons before they totally decide on going to Turkey, Italy, or staying local/domestic.

Anyone have any other French surgeon recommendations? Name some or leave any comments below, thanks

There are also few Romanian surgeons whom i found their results good and natural, it all depends on how and what surgeons you find, the thing about this forum that they forget that most good results come from "unknown" surgeons (unknown means not forum famous)

 

[LEFORT17]

There are also few Romanian surgeons whom i found their results good and natural, it all depends on how and what surgeons you find, the thing about this forum that they forget that most good results come from "unknown" surgeons (unknown means not forum famous)

naos clinica pretty good

 

[LEFORT17]

If you want to ascend ASAP then France is very underrated for surgery. Not only are they first world, high quality, and well developed (Not a Brazil, Turkey, or Russia, also they are white so you won't get botched like you would in Korea where there's different beauty standards), but they are extremely affordable!

With Italy becoming more popular and prices going through the roof, it is time for us to start looking elsewhere. You have to wait half a year to consult with Ramieri! Raffaini charges 500 Euros for one consult! Italian bimax is experiencing severe inflation!

"Now, to address your enquiry, here's a list of French maxfac/orthognathic surgeons compiled by @LackEmpathyTherefor

Jean-Baptiste Charrier (over charges because of international hype)
Pierre Bouletreu
Didier Ernenwein
Gonzague Deffrennes
Emmanuel Racy
Serge Ketoff
Frederic Barere
Pierre Olivi
Jacques Yachouh
Jacques Chardai
Amaury Gindre
Jean-Pascal Dujoncquoy
Thierry Loncle (will most likely overcharge cuz of international hype I think)
Jean-Christophe Lutz

Their prices are sometimes openly displayed on their website. A regular genio will cost approx. 4-5K€ on average.

There is no obvious reason for these French surgeons to be less skilled than their Italian counterparts. The difference will mostly come down to repeated experience with the procedure in question."

Even if you're skeptical I think everyone should at least do some research and consult with some French surgeons before they totally decide on going to Turkey, Italy, or staying local/domestic.

Anyone have any other French surgeon recommendations? Name some or leave any comments below, thanks

water, italy aint the move. told lurking ccel almost a year ago, france mogs economic wise

 

[Lefor3Laser]

naos clinica pretty good

Yeah but there's also one in Timisoara that also has good results, my point was that if you look deep enough, you'll always find a good maxfac or any surgeon in general that does what the forum famous surgeons do for much cheaper.

 

[LEFORT17]

Yeah but there's also one in Timisoara that also has good results, my point was that if you look deep enough, you'll always find a good maxfac or any surgeon in general that does what the forum famous surgeons do for much cheaper.

was never a fan of the italians

 

[Lefor3Laser]

was never a fan of the italians

They’re alright, overhyped asf, but compared to any ordinary surgeon, they really don’t stand out.

Imagine paying 30k instead of 3–9k for a normal case that gives you the exact same result.

People here can get results from surgeries that are priced at 120k+ for 30k or even less.

 

[Lucifersfall]

He has most botches (especially functional) of all and on top of that he is the one with the highest narcisistic traits

Who would you recommend for CCW Bimax?

 

[tweaqo]

15mm with genio insted of giving him djs was enough for me to classify him as a complete moron.

The patient probably didnt want to do DJS because of orthodontics or price or whatever, so this was the next option. And it still turned out ok

Raffaini is pure shit.

just lol at that

Nobody of them does bone graft afaik

literally not true either. Ramieri and Raffaini have used bone grafts u can see in loads of the CT scans posted that there is bone grafts used…

Pagnoni maybe is it a bit dodgy with that Cus of his history of creating non unions. But I wouldn’t trust him with DJS

 

[monk321]

The patient probably didnt want to do DJS because of orthodontics or price or whatever, so this was the next option. And it still turned out ok

Doesn't look ok lol , if patient doesn't want to do djs (proper treatment) then he shouldn't have done anything especially when he cannot perform a huge genio properly without looking like an uncanny joke

just lol at that

you can do your own research about that

literally not true either. Ramieri and Raffaini have used bone grafts u can see in loads of the CT scans posted that there is bone grafts used…

Can you show the ct scans ? Because i have not seen any in their recent cases , not that you can trust Raffaini ig anyway since he's editing all his results

 

[tweaqo]

Doesn't look ok lol , if patient doesn't want to do djs (proper treatment) then he shouldn't have done anything especially when he cannot perform a huge genio properly without looking like an uncanny joke

Step offs from this case can be fixed at a later date. I also don’t think it was the best decision lol but it kinda is the next best thing that could’ve been done. On the table result looks ok. Who knows we will never see the full result

you can do your own research about that

i promise u I know more about any of these surgeons than u. Obviously im aware of his narcissistic nature and his botches. But guess what, 95% of surgeons have a personality like that and have botches. I still wouldn’t go to Mirco now due to the fact he’s like 80 lol

Can you show the ct scans ?

I mean u can just go through their instagrams. Most of the results Ive seen were in consultation.

 

[monk321]

i promise u I know more about any of these surgeons than u.

No you don't.

Obviously im aware of his narcissistic nature and his botches. But guess what, 95% of surgeons have a personality like that and have botches. I still wouldn’t go to Mirco now due to the fact he’s like 80 lol

95% of overrated forum surgeons are like that , yes i agree on this. Not every surgeon.

I mean u can just go through their instagrams. Most of the results Ive seen were in consultation.

You just don't have anything to back it up then , in their instagrams i can't see anything unless it's some result from years ago

 

[tweaqo]

Not every surgeon

Yeah obviously not every surgeon but most surgeons yes. Funnily enough ive consulted with dozens of unknown surgeons for various procedures (jaw surgeons, but also surgeons before I got my eye surgeries) and yes many are very stubborn and act narcy and have insane egos.

You just don't have anything to back it up then

Mate if u just look u will find them. Also u don’t need bone grafting on every surgery lol. Only those that indicate it

 

[vermicel]

@vermicel how similar is your list to his?

Half of the OP is actually a copy&paste of my post, including the list of surgeons.
I'm not the one who originally compiled said list ; Chrishell did (and Lackempathytherefor shared it later on). He said he can't vouch for most of these surgeons and only saved their names from discussions held in a french-speaking (Facebook ?) group dedicated to orthognathics.
Knowing that, proceed with caution and always do your own research. The list would most likely benefit from further sorting.
Also, I don't know if this list includes French surgeons who are specifically good at chin wings (I remember someone on this forum mentioning surgeons based in Lyon and Bordeaux, but he gatekept their names).

italians are trash anyway

water, italy aint the move. france mogs

was never a fan of the italians

Music to my ears, after I realized that the Italians hate the French under any YT video about French cuisine, fashion, Paris, or else, there are always a few Shitalians dissing France and its culture, enabled by dumb Americans (usually under the influence of post-2001 State propaganda) and cheeky Brits (whose banter is fine).
Nowadays, if you want to be edgy, you gotta do the opposite of French bashing. Hyping up French surgeons will contribute to that effort

More seriously : I don't know if French surgeons are more reliable or more skilled than their Italian counterparts. Probably not on average. But taken individually, maybe some of them will stand out and deserve the hype.

Don't forget that LeFort surgeries get their name from René Le Fort, a French surgeon
And if I remember well, French surgeons are also closely related to the development of chin wings or mini wings.

 

[tweaqo]

And if I remember well, French surgeons are also closely related to the development of chin wings or mini wings.

Swiss surgeon invented it but yeah French surgeons work closely with them and probably also trained by the inventor who was Dr Albino Triaca.

 

[vermicel]

Dr Albino Triaca

Given his name, if he was not born in Italy, then his family is probably from the canton of Ticino in Switzerland. Anyway, credit where credit is due !

You said in another thread that French surgeons/clinics didn't respond to your enquiry by email. Did you write in English or in French ? If the former, I would assume that surgeons themselves or a member of their staff could speak English to some extent, and use an online translator if need be. But perhaps writing in French (via an online translator) would prove to be more efficient.

 

[tweaqo]

Given his name, if he was not born in Italy, then his family is probably from the canton of Ticino in Switzerland. Anyway, credit where credit is due !

You said in another thread that French surgeons/clinics didn't respond to your enquiry by email. Did you write in English or in French ? If the former, I would assume that surgeons themselves or a member of their staff could speak English to some extent, and use an online translator if need be. But perhaps writing in French (via an online translator) would prove to be more efficient.

Yeah you’re right im gonna email them again this time in French.

 

[vermicel]

im gonna email them again this time in French

Online translators like DeepL (and AI too, most likely) have gotten really good, but if you want your message to be proofread, don't hesitate to post it here and to tag me.

 

[tweaqo]

Online translators like DeepL (and AI too, most likely) have gotten really good, but if you want your message to be proofread, don't hesitate to post it here and to tag me.

Thanks brah. Good luck on everything

 

[LackEmpathyTherefor]

It’s only a matter of time til an autist here from outside of France does a surgery with one of those Parisian surgeon and posts it and yall realize how good they are.

For half the price of those Italians too
And you get to visit the best city in the world too

 

[LEFORT17]

It’s only a matter of time til an autist here from outside of France does a surgery with one of those Parisian surgeon and posts it and yall realize how good they are.

For half the price of those Italians too
And you get to visit the best city in the world too

stinkiest city in the world

 

[LackEmpathyTherefor]

stinkiest city in the world

 

[bjebb007]

Yeah I don't understand why someone would go to Italy for a genioplasty it baffles me

 

[Surgerymaxxingcel]

But can those escargot eaters speak English? I've heard that they can't. Or at least they don't want to.

 

[YIBUTI_]

Might be stating the obvious but noway the after doesn't have some level of editing

(bimax results)
View attachment 4689006

tell me u don't know shit about focal lenghts

omg 15mm filthy nigger, 200mm indian chad
kys

 

[kaydd]

tell me u don't know shit about focal lenghts

View attachment 4691997
omg 15mm filthy nigger, 200mm indian chad
kys

My bad king

 

[cutecel1337]

How about rhino?

 

[greycel]

There are also few Romanian surgeons whom i found their results good and natural, it all depends on how and what surgeons you find, the thing about this forum that they forget that most good results come from "unknown" surgeons (unknown means not forum famous)

How do you look for these surgeons?
How can you determine how frequently a surgeon can achieve good results just from seeing the best they post?

 

[Lefor3Laser]

How do you look for these surgeons?
How can you determine how frequently a surgeon can achieve good results just from seeing the best they post?

You simply consult with them, see how they talk, what promises they can give, see their other results that are not published and compare, you can also compare other consultations with theirs to determine if they are the only ones whom promised they'll do x y z that other clinics refused.

 

[TonyDr]

@TonyDr lifefuel

It's also higher quality and the degree you got in french medecine school is really serious. If you have insurance as a french you can get even a cost partially coverered if recognized as health issues etc

 

[NepoCel]

naos clinica pretty good

No way people are discovering my goat

 

[DonaldJTrump]

 

[Lefor3Laser]

No way people are discovering my goat

I knew about this clinic long time ago, might make a visit to it in the future or the one in Timisioara.

 

[KidFlash]

If you want to ascend ASAP then France is very underrated for surgery. Not only are they first world, high quality, and well developed (Not a Brazil, Turkey, or Russia, also they are white so you won't get botched like you would in Korea where there's different beauty standards), but they are extremely affordable!

Part of the different beauty standards is because of the maxilla right? i'm pretty sure east asians have naturally recessed maxillas in their skull and i specifically need my recessed upper maxilla fixed so i for sure would not go there

 

[lottacoping]

any good rhino mfs there? thinking of getting rid of my dorsal hump

 

[DonaldJTrump]

 

[DonaldJTrump]

.

 

[snowslayer]

found someone who does genio for 2.9k euros he fucking did an 18mm genio on someone who needed bimax but didn't want to go that route

 

[DonaldJTrump]

found someone who does genio for 2.9k euros he fucking did an 18mm genio on someone who needed bimax but didn't want to go that route

what is their name?

 

[snowslayer]

what is their name?

cant leak mr president i just wanted to flex how i found a gem