Hair transplant questions (yes, you can achieve NW0 from NW1-3)

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Kingscrush7

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I just opened this one, as I faced some HT related threads, I already experienced the patient and the professional side as well for an extent (I was working on the field of hair transplant for appr. 12 years now), if any questions, I'll try to answer them as openly and honestly as possible.
 
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Can I get hairline lowering at 20 years old? I've heard many surgeons on Youtube say they wouldn't operate on younger males.
 
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replacing your original scalp with a dermal scar tissue full of keloids (aka microneedling) does not sound as a good idea to me
 
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Can I get hairline lowering at 20 years old? I've heard many surgeons on Youtube say they wouldn't operate on younger males.
It depends on your androgenetic status (mostly the dynamics of your thinning), your skin/hair condition personal desire etc. Usually at the age of 20 still too many factors, so better to start with a rational preservation plan, waiting on to stabilize your hair and after proceeding.
 
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replacing your original scalp with a dermal scar tissue full of keloids (aka microneedling) does not sound as a good idea to me
? Was it a question to me?
 
is it possible to achieve relative thick density like in a non-balding man at the temples. if there are any specific criteria
 
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is it possible to achieve relative thick density like in a non-balding man at the temples. if there are any specific criteria
Sure, it is possible (the basic implantation approach is called dense packing'), but the most important, crucial part is planning. The right approach before starting any intervention to plan the hair structure minimally for 8-10 years, meaning, if thinning will for any reason accelerate, the overall look should be natural (I'm sure you've seen guys having a dense hair at the frontal/temporal site, and thinning behind quite obviously).

The most important factors:

- androgenetic predisposition factor (how agressive your hairloss might be, and to what extent on the NW scale)
- donor capacity always assuming there will be need for touch up suregeries (at least 2)
- the resting hair density (what is present on the top genetically) to create a homogenous hair structure

If there are serious limitations according to the main factors than planning should be care with serious caution to avoid necessary, unwanted corrective surgeries (that of course happen unfortunately).
 
Hi mate,
my question is more related to hair rather than transplants.
Why does my dermatologist keeps telling me that I don't have any miniaturized hair so he never diagnoses me with androgenetic alopecia, while my density is 1/4 of what I used to have 3/4 years ago?

I think seeing miniaturised hair is not really pathognomonic at this point
 
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I just opened this one, as I faced some HT related threads, I already experienced the patient and the professional side as well for an extent (I was working on the field of hair transplant for appr. 12 years now), if any questions, I'll try to answer them as openly and honestly as possible.
I don't actually know if I am losing hair as such, my hairline seems the same as before when 17 (27 years old now) but I think my overally hairline could possibly have got higher (not noticeable)

My question is would u recommend I start taking fin or using ru58841 now to preserve my hair, or wait until there is something more noticeable in terms of hair loss?
 
do you think ht without using fin is a waste of time?
 
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Hi mate,
my question is more related to hair rather than transplants.
Why does my dermatologist keeps telling me that I don't have any miniaturized hair so he never diagnoses me with androgenetic alopecia, while my density is 1/4 of what I used to have 3/4 years ago?

I think seeing miniaturised hair is not really pathognomonic at this point
One important thing to androgenetic alopecia (both men and women) is that it is a clinical diagnosis (an optical digital microscope is not necessary), and the genetic tests are still not reliable (nor sensitivity, neither specificity) yet to use them as a tool (how cool it would be), another clinical opinion is, that NW0-1 is not really a stage that has to be addressed, rather maturation of the hair structure which is more obvious at so called fronto-temporal recession (when the hairline is pulling back at the forehead), so they usually don't consider it as a disease, that would be necessary to treat (with minoxidil/finasteride/ketoconazole conventionally, recently there are newer chemicals, like Breezula, will have to wait for more output). From NW2 they start to care about the treatment, which is dependent on age, expectation of the patient etc (mentioned before).

So my friend it unfortunately doesn't matter, if you feel to lose "weight" of your hair, and usually men alredy lose about 50-60% of their hair when it becomes obvious. I suggest you to look for another dermatologist or hair clinic where doctors practice (not trichologists, who promote another miracle solution based on panthenol, and ginseng).

To miniaturization: it has to be measured usually at least in three different times to conclude you have a progress of miniaturization (it is usually not a one point in time diagnosis).
 
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replacing your original scalp with a dermal scar tissue full of keloids (aka microneedling) does not sound as a good idea to me
why keloids?
aren't keloids genetic?
 
I don't actually know if I am losing hair as such, my hairline seems the same as before when 17 (27 years old now) but I think my overally hairline could possibly have got higher (not noticeable)

My question is would u recommend I start taking fin or using ru58841 now to preserve my hair, or wait until there is something more noticeable in terms of hair loss?
I already wrote about RU, but there is CB-01- also as an effective alternative (with even less history), and some other chemicals, the problem is, that these guys play with androgen receptors, and a lot more effective than spironolactone. I personally would advise against RU, and also to make a PSA level before starting finasteride (it usually decreases the tissue PSA concentration, however there are recently debates about it as well) just to have a reference for the future (usually leading to some years at least). So finasteride 1mg/day with minox is still considered to be safe (maybe ketoconazole shampoo).
 
why keloids?
aren't keloids genetic?
Exactly, dermarolling doesn't cause keloids per se, you have to have a predisposition for it (even hypertrophic scar formation).
 
do you think ht without using fin is a waste of time?
Not always, but finasteride besides keeping your sensitive follicles also lessens the degree of inflammation after HT, so it seems to be a supportive factor.
 
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how common is it for someone to end up with natural/good density after just one session?
 
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can't u just go norwood 6 and get hairtransplant, thst hair will be permanent then why bother with fin
It isn't as simple, as it seems (we wish it were), as usually the degree of hair loss slows down with age (not always, but mostly), so if you start adapting a safe and as effective as possible regimen you do not only win linear, but "exponentially", meaning you survive the time, when your hair loss could potentially be very rapid, so to preserve most of your hair early can have a double benefit, but only in sane borders (not with untested ways, or unnecessarily high dose etc.).
 
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how common is it for someone to end up with natural/good density after just one session?
If for dense packing someone is a candidate (not premature operation, good donor, long term planning), than usually it is a success.
As I wrote before it is the planning part where the surgeries fail unfortunately, it is why it's crucial to go with the right doctor (same with bimax, or plastic surgery).
 
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If for dense packing someone is a candidate (not premature operation, good donor, long term planning), than usually it is a success.
As I wrote before it is the planning part where the surgeries fail unfortunately, it is why it's crucial to go with the right doctor (same with bimax, or plastic surgery).
I've read that when you transplant too many grafts in one session a lot of them just won't survive
 
I've read that when you transplant too many grafts in one session a lot of them just won't survive
If done properly, the growth rate has to be over 90%. I add, that a high density session is usually everything north to 50 grafts/cm2, over this number logically the whole operation has to be lead with a lot higher precision (how to prepare the sites, or how to use stick-and-place implantation, so there are minuscule factors, which add up at the end of the day).
 
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If done properly, the growth rate has to be over 90%. I add, that a high density session is usually everything north to 50 grafts/cm2, over this number logically the whole operation has to be lead with a lot higher precision (how to prepare the sites, or how to use stick-and-place implantation, so there are minuscule factors, which add up at the end of the day).
can you do dense packing without having to shave your head?
 
can you do dense packing without having to shave your head?
Yes, it is possible, even not to shave the donor area, but logically it is a lot more energy, and time consuming operation for the team and the patient, so it is usually advised against, however doable.
 
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Exactly, dermarolling doesn't cause keloids per se, you have to have a predisposition for it (even hypertrophic scar formation).
have you ever encountered someone with a genetic predisposition to it?
I had few hypertrophic scars so i'm kinda worried i have it
 
have you ever encountered someone with a genetic predisposition to it?
I had few hypertrophic scars so i'm kinda worried i have it

Keloid is a contraindication to any intervention that causes medium trauma with tissue loss to the middle layer of the skin (dermis), but in case of microneedling/dermarolling it doesn't happen. With regards to dermarolling it is actually a therapy for keloid and hypertrophic scars, not the cause of them (as the needles are .1 mm in diameter at most). So keloid you can treated, but have to make a so called primary/test treatment on a smaller area, wait 6 months depending on the result you can proceed.
 
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We only treated patients with predisposition to hypertrophic scar formation (handful of them). All of the results were positive, not inferior to non-scarring skin type. Keloid patients I personally haven't treated.
 
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Can we have an increase in hair loss (even on untreated areas). (Like the blood vessels need time to repair and therefore the blood circulates less).
 
Can we have an increase in hair loss (even on untreated areas). (Like the blood vessels need time to repair and therefore the blood circulates less).
After HT? Temporarily yes, but most of the hairs grow back.
 
After HT? Temporarily yes, but most of the hairs grow back.
Yes. I'm not speaking about shock loss which usually happen in or near the donor/receip area. But really about something that happen 'all over the scalp' and last for 4-6 months.
 
Yes. I'm not speaking about shock loss which usually happen in or near the donor/receip area. But really about something that happen 'all over the scalp' and last for 4-6 months.
All over the scalp, if someone has not typical androgenetic distribution for DHT sensitivity (something than is not male pattern baldness), than yes, it is possible, in this case still most of the hair should recover. In quite rare cases with a skin prone to immune alopecia any inflammation trigger (like HT) can evoke circular patches, however they also recover with time. More info is just too deep in the topic I guess.
 
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One important thing to androgenetic alopecia (both men and women) is that it is a clinical diagnosis (an optical digital microscope is not necessary), and the genetic tests are still not reliable (nor sensitivity, neither specificity) yet to use them as a tool (how cool it would be), another clinical opinion is, that NW0-1 is not really a stage that has to be addressed, rather maturation of the hair structure which is more obvious at so called fronto-temporal recession (when the hairline is pulling back at the forehead), so they usually don't consider it as a disease, that would be necessary to treat (with minoxidil/finasteride/ketoconazole conventionally, recently there are newer chemicals, like Breezula, will have to wait for more output). From NW2 they start to care about the treatment, which is dependent on age, expectation of the patient etc (mentioned before).

So my friend it unfortunately doesn't matter, if you feel to lose "weight" of your hair, and usually men alredy lose about 50-60% of their hair when it becomes obvious. I suggest you to look for another dermatologist or hair clinic where doctors practice (not trichologists, who promote another miracle solution based on panthenol, and ginseng).

To miniaturization: it has to be measured usually at least in three different times to conclude you have a progress of miniaturization (it is usually not a one point in time diagnosis).
thank you very much. Do you think it's still possible to increase density? I've started Fin and Keto a month ago, I was thinking to implement dermapen and Biotin soon.
 
thank you very much. Do you think it's still possible to increase density? I've started Fin and Keto a month ago, I was thinking to implement dermapen and Biotin soon.
Increasing density with DHT blockers (they inhibit the hindering effect, disinhibiting the growth of the still viable follicles), maybe some regenerative therapy with microneedling, for hair diameter minoxidil mainly (officially it won't "grew out" new hairs, only making the existing ones thicker, darker creating a fuller effect. Good luck!
 
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do you have any clinic recommendations? somewhere with good quality and value
 
do you have any clinic recommendations? somewhere with good quality and value
Which continent is your preference, mainly it is worth to opt between Europe or US, coming down to value (cost/benefit Europe is far the best option, however in Australia, and Asia there also decent clinics, the two former have the best reputation)?
 
Which continent is your preference, mainly it is worth to opt between Europe or US, coming down to value (cost/benefit Europe is far the best option, however in Australia, and Asia there also decent clinics, the two former have the best reputation)?
I was thinking Turkey lol but if there are ones within the same price range that you recommend more then i'll also be fine with that
 
Good thread, thanks! Why don't many surgeons really include proper temple points in the HT planning? Is it difficult or is the result unnatural?
7958_101045_110000000.jpg
 
I was thinking Turkey lol but if there are ones within the same price range that you recommend more then i'll also be fine with that
Turkey is three different price ranges, not one:

  1. Package style clinics (very cheap 1500-2000 EUR accomodation for some nights included, hence package), the worst possible option, the reason briefly: hit or miss result. General overharvestation of the donor area (not refined punch sizes, and not following the ideal pattern of extraction in order to achieve the least obvious deficit after the session), and wide variety of end result, can be optically feasible, or not. They are cheap, because the run many (8-15 not even an exaggeration!!) operations/day, usually 2-4 doctors supervise these sessions (meaning: NOT doctors - let alone really experienced doctors - execute most of the surgery, but assistants/technicians), so if you would like to make a long term investment with not big surprises immediately after the surgery, or long term, avoid these.
  2. The second level: cheaper, but not very cheap clinics. They already charge per grafts (as it should normally be), here thera arw also more operations/day (2-4 op/day), but most of the sessions are done by doctors, however not the most experienced ones, usually beginner-early intermediate level, they are of course more reliable than the package "clinics", still the quality can be higher in occupational terms. Price: 1-1,5 EUR/graft usually.
  3. The professional clinics in Turkey, they are the well-known names (Kulahchi, Erdogan, HLC clinic), in Turkey they are the top, the same level as reliable clinics in Europe, they charge 2,5-4 EUR/graft. In terms of general result the later two can be similar, the difference is appr. 10-15 % growth rate, and the preservation if the donor area for the future (logically the more expensive clinics are superior).
In the US: James Harris, Hasson/Wong, Feller (canada), Cooley, Shapiro, maybe Epstein are all good, however quite pricey.

In western Europe there are some decent clinics: Farjo, Shamalak, Boudjema (maybe now not practising yet), Couto, HDC clinic Cyprus, Mwamba. Where I was working of course I think is one of the best, that's why I was there quite long, and still I'm consulting here and there. Technically they invest a lot in the newest tools, not only into surgery, but also for regenerative therapies. Without again exaggeration most of the newest techniques, cell therapies are there first in Europe (if they adapt it from other continents), and in the firsts in general. The price range is around 1,5-2 EUR/graft. I don't know if I should write the clinics name here, don't want to make a direct ad site of this thread, so anybody can ask me private.
 
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Good thread, thanks! Why don't many surgeons really include proper temple points in the HT planning? Is it difficult or is the result unnatural?
7958_101045_110000000.jpg
I don't know the status of this guy, but the temporal is the "original" stage (quite forward "pulled"), so yes, to adapt the frontal area to the temporal would be necessary to diminish optic incongruencies, and frame the face properly, however the full picture should be taken into consideration (age, any hair preservation currently, hair loss status, previous session mostly).
 
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replacing your original scalp with a dermal scar tissue full of keloids (aka microneedling) does not sound as a good idea to me
You’re suggesting not derma roll for hair?
 
Turkey is three different price ranges, not one:

  1. Package style clinics (very cheap 1500-2000 EUR accomodation for some nights included, hence package), the worst possible option, the reason briefly: hit or miss result. General overharvestation of the donor area (not refined punch sizes, and not following the ideal pattern of extraction in order to achieve the least obvious deficit after the session), and wide variety of end result, can be optically feasible, or not. They are cheap, because the run many (8-15 not even an exaggeration!!) operations/day, usually 2-4 doctors supervise these sessions (meaning: NOT doctors - let alone really experienced doctors - execute most of the surgery, but assistants/technicians), so if you would like to make a long term investment with not big surprises immediately after the surgery, or long term, avoid these.
  2. The second level: cheaper, but not very cheap clinics. They already charge per grafts (as it should normally be), here thera arw also more operations/day (2-4 op/day), but most of the sessions are done by doctors, however not the most experienced ones, usually beginner-early intermediate level, they are of course more reliable than the package "clinics", still the quality can be higher in occupational terms. Price: 1-1,5 EUR/graft usually.
  3. The professional clinics in Turkey, they are the well-known names (Kulahchi, Erdogan, HLC clinic), in Turkey they are the top, the same level as reliable clinics in Europe, they charge 2,5-4 EUR/graft. In terms of general result the later two can be similar, the difference is appr. 10-15 % growth rate, and the preservation if the donor area for the future (logically the more expensive clinics are superior).
In the US: James Harris, Hasson/Wong, Feller (canada), Cooley, Shapiro, maybe Epstein are all good, however quite pricey.

In western Europe there are some decent clinics: Farjo, Shamalak, Boudjema (maybe now not practising yet), Couto, HDC clinic Cyprus, Mwamba. Where I was working of course I think is one of the best, that's why I was there quite long, and still I'm consulting here and there. Technically they invest a lot in the newest tools, not only into surgery, but also for regenerative therapies. Without again exaggeration most of the newest techniques, cell therapies are there first in Europe (if they adapt it from other continents), and in the firsts in general. The price range is around 1,5-2 EUR/graft. I don't know if I should write the clinics name here, don't want to make a direct ad site of this thread, so anybody can ask me private.
Great wealth of information. If you don't mind, can I message you my hairline so you can estimate how many grafts i would need? i wouldnt mind paying for a high quality transplant as long as i dont need too many grafts

oh and please dm me that clinic's name :) thank you
 

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