Hardmaxing Advice

[neo330]

Side profile, lightly jutting on the left vs unfrauded on the right. Slight overbite which braces didnt fully correct for some reason. What hardmaxes would I need to truly ascend, specifically relating to the jaw area? any leforts needed? Eye area isnt totally cooked, I just didnt want to reveal my identity yet. I’ll reveal it separate.


Now from the front I know my upper lip is thin and unideal bulbous nose, so maybe rhino with alar and lip lift? what else needs work?

 

[vvd]

u definitely need lf ur recessed as fuck

 

[ilbn_incel]

Side profile, lightly jutting on the left vs unfrauded on the right. Slight overbite which braces didnt fully correct for some reason. What hardmaxes would I need to truly ascend, specifically relating to the jaw area? any leforts needed? Eye area isnt totally cooked, I just didnt want to reveal my identity yet. I’ll reveal it separate.
View attachment 3660119View attachment 3660113

Now from the front I know my upper lip is thin and unideal bulbous nose, so maybe rhino with alar and lip lift? what else needs work?
View attachment 3660167

All surgeries available

 

[neo330]

All surgeries available

most obvious ones tho?

 

[ilbn_incel]

most obvious ones tho?

MAXILLARY ORTHOGNATHIC SURGERY Or lefort 1

 

[neo330]

MAXILLARY ORTHOGNATHIC SURGERY Or lefort 1

Do I actually have a recessed maxilla or is it okay but not optimal?

 

[neo330]

u definitely need lf ur recessed as fuck

lefort? or rhino?

 

[sinbones]

no clue why nobody here has mentioned a genioplasty

 

[neo330]

no clue why nobody here has mentioned a genioplasty

would i get that in combination with a double jaw surgery?

 

[sinbones]

would i get that in combination with a double jaw surgery?

No, no real point. Genioplasty targets chin recession while a double jaw surgery would target an entire recessed/fucked lower third. Honestly not that familiar with double jaw operations tbh

 

[neo330]

No, no real point. Genioplasty targets chin recession while a double jaw surgery would target an entire recessed/fucked lower third. Honestly not that familiar with double jaw operations tbh

I know im not severely recessed or anything, my jaw area is just mid and not striking. But for the sake of ascending I wanted advice on if a bimax or trimax could help with that.

 

[sinbones]

I know im not severely recessed or anything, my jaw area is just mid and not striking. But for the sake of ascending I wanted advice on if a bimax or trimax could help with that.

I mean yeah, it would absolutely help and I would highly recommend it.

 

[johnyjoel]

Your maxilla is not the problem, you just lack mandible forwardness

 

[neo330]

Your maxilla is not the problem, you just lack mandible forwardness

Should I still go for the trimax though to also further improve my maxilla? And how many mm do you think would be optimal if you had to eyeball it?

 

[johnyjoel]

Should I still go for the trimax though to also further improve my maxilla? And how many mm do you think would be optimal if you had to eyeball it?

Depends on your bite, aesthetics wise your lower maxilla is good so a bimax won't really do much good to you as you don't really need a Lefort 1, you main issue maxilla wise is the upper maxilla which is fixable by implants,filler or fat grafts. A BSSO would ascend your side but if your bite matches they will need to do a bimax anyways. Can't really say how much advancement you need but as i said, you main maxilla issue is the upper I wouldn't worry that much about advancing it with Lefort

 

[neo330]

Depends on your bite, aesthetics wise your lower maxilla is good so a bimax won't really do much good to you as you don't really need a Lefort 1, you main issue maxilla wise is the upper maxilla which is fixable by implants,filler or fat grafts. A BSSO would ascend your side but if your bite matches they will need to do a bimax anyways. Can't really say how much advancement you need but as i said, you main maxilla issue is the upper I wouldn't worry that much about advancing it with Lefort

Appreciate the the thorough explanation. I have a slight overbite even after braces, so I'm going to get that checked out with the orthodontist before all of this. What exactly about my upper maxilla is lacking and does this include the zygos as well? I know that leforts 2 and 3 are probably not feasible for someone like me without a severe failo but would either hypothetically fix the upper maxilla?

 

[johnyjoel]

What exactly about my upper maxilla is lacking and does this include the zygos as well? I know that leforts 2 and 3 are probably not feasible for someone like me without a severe failo but would either hypothetically fix the upper maxilla?

Yes the zygos are not forwardly grown enough making the infraorbitals recessed giving you a negative orbital vector. But this is literally one of the most common recession on the planet as it's really dependent on genetics. This kind of midface recession is usually fixed by implants and fat grafts if you really want to fix the root of the problem or fillers if you don't want to be too invasive, lefort 2 or 3 are invasive surgeries which are typically done on class 3 patients which you're not,also, they don't really fix the lack of under eye and forward growth of the zygos, as there are plenty of people with excellent under eye support but a clearly flat/recessed maxilla. I would ask these things to your orthodontist but i think that he would also agree that maxilla advancement is not the right choice for you. Upper midface deficiency is much better treated with implants and fat grafts as i said but if were you i would focus on fixing the mandible first

 

[neo330]

Yes the zygos are not forwardly grown enough making the infraorbitals recessed giving you a negative orbital vector. But this is literally one of the most common recession on the planet as it's really dependent on genetics. This kind of midface recession is usually fixed by implants and fat grafts if you really want to fix the root of the problem or fillers if you don't want to be too invasive, lefort 2 or 3 are invasive surgeries which are typically done on class 3 patients which you're not,also, they don't really fix the lack of under eye and forward growth of the zygos, as there are plenty of people with excellent under eye support but a clearly flat/recessed maxilla. I would ask these things to your orthodontist but i think that he would also agree that maxilla advancement is not the right choice for you. Upper midface deficiency is much better treated with implants and fat grafts as i said but if were you i would focus on fixing the mandible first

That sounds like a good plan. I’d only go for the bimax if it benefited me aesthetically over just bsso. Someone earlier even mentioned genio which is why I was asking about trimax, but I cant really tell if my chin is recessed or if its just the mandible.

 

[hej1377]

I dont rhink you should get a super invasive surgery like a trimax but probably just some chin filler/implant, your nose looks good so dont think a rhino would help but possibly a commissuroplasty instead because your mouth looks quite narrow which might just give a bit of an illusion of a big nose, and then your infra orbitals look a bit reccesed so possibly a fat graft since i dont think its that bad so i wouldnt recommend implants

 

[hej1377]

And i think the reason why so many people a are recommending thing like a trimax is because your recessed infras give an appearance of a recessed maxilla but think there isnt more than very slight recession in the maxilla and you can tell by looking at the start of your pre maxilla compared to the lower eyelid

 

[neo330]

And i think the reason why so many people a are recommending thing like a trimax is because your recessed infras give an appearance of a recessed maxilla but think there isnt more than very slight recession in the maxilla and you can tell by looking at the start of your pre maxilla compared to the lower eyelid

Did you notice any recession in my lower maxilla, because thats mainly why I was asking about a lefort 1 to begin with. If my lower maxilla looks good then I’d probably just avoid any maxilla surgery all together and just opt for implants/fat grafts to improve my upper maxilla/eye area. The main goal for me is to improve my aesthetics without offsetting any ratios (like pushing my lower maxilla too far forward without fixing the upper maxilla at all) which is all lefort 1 is capable of doing as far as im aware. As for my mandible, a few other users noticed a recession which is why I was considering bsso with or without genioplasty. I need to make sure that it would look right if I improved my mandible projection without a lefort. As for rhino, I was on the fence since its not necessarily bad from the side, but is debatably wide from the front despite my phenotype. If I got alar instead of rhino, it could possibly improve my mouth to nose ratio, but I need to make sure it wont end up making my nose look worse. The main question I really had was how much I could safely project my mandible/chin if necessary without it being disproportioned relative to the maxilla. If I dont need a lefort to improve my mandible then ill just do bottom jaw surgery.

 

[neo330]

Side profile, lightly jutting on the left vs unfrauded on the right. Slight overbite which braces didnt fully correct for some reason. What hardmaxes would I need to truly ascend, specifically relating to the jaw area? any leforts needed? Eye area isnt totally cooked, I just didnt want to reveal my identity yet. I’ll reveal it separate.
View attachment 3660119View attachment 3660113

Now from the front I know my upper lip is thin and unideal bulbous nose, so maybe rhino with alar and lip lift? what else needs work?
View attachment 3660167

@normie_joe what do you think? saw ur bimax results from earlier and wanted an opinion from ur personal experience with it.

 

[ThomasMH38]

Bro dont listen all those advice, your jaw look good you doesnt seem recessed. I think you just need filler or fat graft in upper eyelid

 

[neo330]

Bro dont listen all those advice, your jaw look good you doesnt seem recessed. I think you just need filler or fat graft in upper eyelid

Do u think a few mm of mandible advancement would look better though? or will i need lefort as well to keep the ratios good

 

[ThomasMH38]

Do u think a few mm of mandible advancement would look better though? or will i need lefort as well to keep the ratios good

You dont need jaw surgery or genioplasty your ratios look all good

 

[hej1377]

Did you notice any recession in my lower maxilla, because thats mainly why I was asking about a lefort 1 to begin with. If my lower maxilla looks good then I’d probably just avoid any maxilla surgery all together and just opt for implants/fat grafts to improve my upper maxilla/eye area. The main goal for me is to improve my aesthetics without offsetting any ratios (like pushing my lower maxilla too far forward without fixing the upper maxilla at all) which is all lefort 1 is capable of doing as far as im aware. As for my mandible, a few other users noticed a recession which is why I was considering bsso with or without genioplasty. I need to make sure that it would look right if I improved my mandible projection without a lefort. As for rhino, I was on the fence since its not necessarily bad from the side, but is debatably wide from the front despite my phenotype. If I got alar instead of rhino, it could possibly improve my mouth to nose ratio, but I need to make sure it wont end up making my nose look worse. The main question I really had was how much I could safely project my mandible/chin if necessary without it being disproportioned relative to the maxilla. If I dont need a lefort to improve my mandible then ill just do bottom jaw surgery.

Your maxilla looks good but your pre maxilla is a bit recessed and that may be why youll intuitively might think itl look unatiral. I would try a rapid palate expander if i were you. If you do the RPE, fat graft, lip lift and the chin filler i think youll be like CL or something. Everything should be like 5k travel and stay inc if you live in europe and can go to turkey since the RPE should be free if you just go the orthodontist

 

[neo330]

Your maxilla looks good but your pre maxilla is a bit recessed and that may be why youll intuitively might think itl look unatiral. I would try a rapid palate expander if i were you. If you do the RPE, fat graft, lip lift and the chin filler i think youll be like CL or something. Everything should be like 5k travel and stay inc if you live in europe and can go to turkey since the RPE should be free if you just go the orthodontist

RPE and lip lift make sense to fix my upper lip. I still have a slight overbite that was improved from a deep bite before I got braces in my early teens, so fixing that could hopefully improve my mandible the slightest. As for fillers, do you rlly think this is better than a genio? Money is not an issue and im willing to get the best procedure possible. And for some reason my mandible feels more recessed than everyone is saying, but it could just be the bite issue.

 

[hej1377]

If you have an overbite a lefort might be worth it if yoi do have an overbite and then chin filler and rpe w8ll probably not be needed but its not really visible, atleast not from the pics so i would say if the overbite is more visible irl get lefort and if it isnt dontt bother

 

[neo330]

If you have an overbite a lefort might be worth it if yoi do have an overbite and then chin filler and rpe w8ll probably not be needed but its not really visible, atleast not from the pics so i would say if the overbite is more visible irl get lefort and if it isnt dontt bother

Im still a bit confused on this. If I have an overbite, would I do double jaw surgery then? since a lefort would just project the upper jaw even more

 

[hej1377]

Well if you only got lefort yes but i meant full bimax so bsso would be included

 

[neo330]

Well if you only got lefort yes but i meant full bimax so bsso would be included

just out of curiosity, why wouldnt i just be able to get bsso alone? wouldnt bsso be enough to move the bottom jaw forward fixing the bite?

 

[hej1377]

It could possibly do that the reasons for why a full bimax might be better is because it cancorrect assymetries and a gummy smile if you have that and also a bsso will fix the overbite but it doesnt always turn out like you imagned and a bimax is better for optimal faciall harmony cause you can make small adjustments easier, so in simple terms a bimaxer is easier to not fuck up. But you should consult a orthodontist before you go through with it and make sure you go to one that gives you a full cephalometric analysis and also gives you a 3d simulation of the results

 

[soggra]

Side profile, lightly jutting on the left vs unfrauded on the right. Slight overbite which braces didnt fully correct for some reason. What hardmaxes would I need to truly ascend, specifically relating to the jaw area? any leforts needed? Eye area isnt totally cooked, I just didnt want to reveal my identity yet. I’ll reveal it separate.
View attachment 3660119View attachment 3660113

Now from the front I know my upper lip is thin and unideal bulbous nose, so maybe rhino with alar and lip lift? what else needs work?
View attachment 3660167

Low mtn

 

[neo330]

Side profile, lightly jutting on the left vs unfrauded on the right. Slight overbite which braces didnt fully correct for some reason. What hardmaxes would I need to truly ascend, specifically relating to the jaw area? any leforts needed? Eye area isnt totally cooked, I just didnt want to reveal my identity yet. I’ll reveal it separate.
View attachment 3660119View attachment 3660113

Now from the front I know my upper lip is thin and unideal bulbous nose, so maybe rhino with alar and lip lift? what else needs work?
View attachment 3660167

bump