How do others see you?

[coolguy1]

galaxy s6 front camera from up close is how u look irl

 

[one job away]

So basically take a video of yourself with the back camera. This is your "true" version (not really because of camera quality, lighting and so on but roughly it is you). But since your not familiar with the flipped version of yourself you will likely find yourself weird looking and you notice more asymmetries. So you should hold that video against the mirror to flip it back to the mirrored version and that's how other people see you even tho technically it's not the most accurate version of you (mirrored).

Did I get that right?

I mean you could just take a mirror video of you but my example was more for the sake of understanding

To simplify the answer let’s define how you really look like, so the non mirrored version, as (R) and what you see inside the mirror, so the mirrored version, as (M).

Now if you take a selfie of yourself depending on the phone you get a (R) pic or an (M) pic of yourself. Some phone company’s programmed their cameras to flip the selfies to make a better impression.

Now factually (R) and (M) are exactly the same. Just flipped. Ther is actually 0 difference whatsoever, but you will perceive (M) as much better looking than (R).


Now the issue with selfies is the lens distortion. How can you avoid lens distortion? By creating distance. Mirrors are very handy for that since mirrors allow for a bigger distance AND a mirror doubles the distance by default.

In the end what im saying is you need to get a pic that is (M) and as less lens distorted as possible.

that can be a photo shoot, a mirror video , whatever.

 

[one job away]

So basically take a video of yourself with the back camera. This is your "true" version (not really because of camera quality, lighting and so on but roughly it is you). But since your not familiar with the flipped version of yourself you will likely find yourself weird looking and you notice more asymmetries. So you should hold that video against the mirror to flip it back to the mirrored version and that's how other people see you even tho technically it's not the most accurate version of you (mirrored).

Did I get that right?

I mean you could just take a mirror video of you but my example was more for the sake of understanding

So no. The back camera doesn’t equal your true self. Which camera you use is unimportant. The back camera usually distorts the face less than the front camera but which camera you use is not the point. It comes down to nullifying the lens distortion of the camera.

 

[Niki9911]

To simplify the answer let’s define how you really look like as (R) and what you see inside the mirror as (M).

Now if you take a selfie of yourself depending on the phone you get a (R) pic or an (M) pic of yourself. Some phone company’s programmers their cameras to flip the selfies to make a better impression.

Now factually (R) and (M) are exactly the same. Just flipped. Ther is actually 0 difference whatsoever, but you will perceive (M) as much better looking than (R).


Now the issue with selfies is the lens distortion. How can you avoid lens distortion? By creating distance. Mirrors are very handy for that since mirrors allow for a bigger distance AND a mirror doubles the distance by default.

In the end what im saying is you need to get a pic that is (M) and as less lens distorted as possible.

that can be a photo shoot, a mirror video , whatever.

Yeah that's basically what I thought. A video taken of you is close to a perfect (R) but you will most likely find it shit since it is flipped for you. So to make that same video into a (M) you could hold it against a Mirror and watch it trough the mirror since it will be flipped back. To others you show the (R) video (if they already know you for some time) and to yourself you show the (M) video.


And it's still not perfect since a video is still not an actual perfect 3D representation of you.

I think I got you I'm just taking complicated so you maybe think I mean something different^^

 

[one job away]

Yeah that's basically what I thought. A video taken of you is close to a perfect (R) but you will most likely find it shit since it is flipped for you. So to make that same video into a (M) you could hold it against a Mirror and watch it trough the mirror since it will be flipped back. To others you show the (R) video (if they already know you for some time) and to yourself you show the (M) video.


And it's still not perfect since a video is still not an actual perfect 3D representation of you.

I think I got you I'm just taking complicated so you maybe think I mean something different^^

Pretty much.

small add to your answer. Others will not know if you show them the (R) or (M) version.
The reason why you even see a difference is because you know your face a thousand times better than anyone else. You will see the difference they won’t.

So you could simply always make your vids and pics you post to a (M) version. No one will notice and you will feel better.
But it might be best to just get accustomed to your (R) version if you get tagged in group fotos or so. You will eventually like that version as well if you like your (M) version. It takes time

 

[Niki9911]

Pretty much.

small add to your answer. Others will not know if you show them the (R) or (M) version.
The reason why you even see a difference is because you know your face a thousand times better than anyone else. You will see the difference they won’t.

So you could simply always make your vids and pics you post to a (M) version. No one will notice and you will feel better.
But it might be best to just get accustomed to your (R) version if you get tagged in group fotos or so. You will eventually like that version as well if you like your (M) version. It takes time

Alright. Thank you very much that was helpful.

Yeah I did get accustomed to (R) a little by now but sometimes it still feels weird, especially when I want to make a video of myself and do it in (R). Sometimes my eyes look so asymmetrical to me that I seriously question how no one notices it lmao.

 

[one job away]

Alright. Thank you very much that was helpful.

Yeah I did get accustomed to (R) a little by now but sometimes it still feels weird, especially when I want to make a video of myself and do it in (R). Sometimes my eyes look so asymmetrical to me that I seriously question how no one notices it lmao.

Obviously if you really asymmetric people can tell. But even then you would probably have to ask them what’s off and show both versions at the same time. Imagine you have a jaw which is asymmetric. Like one gonion sits visible lower than the other. People would think you have your head tilted differently if you flipped it, not say you are asymmetric. Only when you are really pushing them towards noticing the asymmetry they can notice it. And yeah you would need to be really asymmetric for that already.

 

[Niki9911]

Obviously if you really asymmetric people can tell. But even then you would probably have to ask them what’s off and show both versions at the same time. Imagine you have a jaw which is asymmetric. Like one gonion sits visible lower than the other. People would think you have your head tilted differently if you flipped it, not say you are asymmetric. Only when you are really pushing them towards noticing the asymmetry they can notice it. And yeah you would need to be really asymmetric for that already.

True but I don't think I'm that asymmetric although one side of my jaw is actually slightly stronger lmao

New video by Niklas Sticher

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[one job away]

True but I don't think I'm that asymmetric although one side of my jaw is actually slightly stronger lmao

New video by Niklas Sticher

photos.app.goo.gl

Not noticeable for me. So you are good.

I was referring to rather “extreme” cases which on this site isn’t that unlikely.

 

[Michael Myers]

so i took a group picture with my brother and three of our friends. two of them are above average, one is a green-eyed tyrone lite and the other is a white chadlite. especially the white chadlite has "hollywood actor" phenotype. but in the picture they just looked very meh. nothing special at all. in real life they look a lot better. the picture was taken from between 5 to 9 meters. also, when i looked at my brother in the mirror and when i compared it to how he looked in real life, he looked better in real life. what do these things mean?

 

[one job away]

so i took a group picture with my brother and three of our friends. two of them are above average, one is a green-eyed tyrone lite and the other is a white chadlite. especially the white chadlite has "hollywood actor" phenotype. but in the picture they just looked very meh. nothing special at all. in real life they look a lot better. the picture was taken from between 5 to 9 meters. also, when i looked at my brother in the mirror and when i compared it to how he looked in real life, he looked better in real life. what do these things mean?

There are 3 things that make a picture.

Lightning, lens distortion, angle.

These are the factors that can make a good looking person bad looking


a 4th factor is depth which you have in real life and not in pictures.

 

[one job away]

so i took a group picture with my brother and three of our friends. two of them are above average, one is a green-eyed tyrone lite and the other is a white chadlite. especially the white chadlite has "hollywood actor" phenotype. but in the picture they just looked very meh. nothing special at all. in real life they look a lot better. the picture was taken from between 5 to 9 meters. also, when i looked at my brother in the mirror and when i compared it to how he looked in real life, he looked better in real life. what do these things mean?

Some persons look a lot better in real life due to assymwtric faces. Irl assymetrys are not noticeable

 

[Michael Myers]

There are 3 things that make a picture.

Lightning, lens distortion, angle.

These are the factors that can make a good looking person bad looking


a 4th factor is depth which you have in real life and not in pictures.

the picture was taken in clear daylight. the camera was far enough to ensure there was no lens distortion and the angle was from straight up. all the factors were in fact neutral yet they looked, compared to what i see irl, worse in the picture. they went from chadlites to mid-tier normies.

 

[one job away]

the picture was taken in clear daylight. the camera was far enough to ensure there was no lens distortion and the angle was from straight up. all the factors were in fact neutral yet they looked, compared to what i see irl, worse in the picture. they went from chadlites to mid-tier normies.

Then you overrate them in person due to psychological factors.

 

[Michael Myers]

Then you overrate them in person due to psychological factors.

no bro im not overrating them lol, they all get enough attention from girls. everyone says theyre good looking. they really are chadlites. but in pictures it doesnt show.

 

[one job away]

no bro im not overrating them lol, they all get enough attention from girls. everyone says theyre good looking. they really are chadlites. but in pictures it doesnt show.

Last explanation is that they camera was shit and mashed details together so they don’t show hollow cheeks for example.

There is a lot to lightning as well. So daylight from straight able might be a bad one for the camera. Different cameras produce ver different results. But overall you shouldn’t go from very gl to ugly with a half way decent camera.

Maher will always look very good. Not model tier but always noticeable

 

[Michael Myers]

Last explanation is that they camera was shit and mashed details together so they don’t show hollow cheeks for example.

There is a lot to lightning as well. So daylight from straight able might be a bad one for the camera. Different cameras produce ver different results. But overall you shouldn’t go from very gl to ugly with a half way decent camera.

Maher will always look very good. Not model tier but always noticeable

the camera was fine haha, it was an iphone 11 that was used to take the picture. but i meant in other pictures they take they dont look as good either, not just in that particular photo. im not saying they became ugly in the pictures, just that they didnt look nearly as good as they do in real life. i think it kind of ties into this thread, that pics etc arent as reliable as irl perception.

 

[one job away]

the camera was fine haha, it was an iphone 11 that was used to take the picture. but i meant in other pictures they take they dont look as good either, not just in that particular photo. im not saying they became ugly in the pictures, just that they didnt look nearly as good as they do in real life. i think it kind of ties into this thread, that pics etc arent as reliable as irl perception.

I thought you were trying to say the stuff I said is wrong cuz real life looks different than in pictures.

I explained that in the thread as well to some degree due to the way we look at faces. There is infact more like depth and faces that look especially good due to good forward growth etc but that’s not the norm.

A picture doesn’t lie tho. It’s pretty accurate. Saying else is cope. Yes there are bad pics. But if you only have bad pics you might have to reconsider your self image

 

[Michael Myers]

I thought you were trying to say the stuff I said is wrong cuz real life looks different than in pictures.

I explained that in the thread as well to some degree. There is infant more like depth and faces that look especially good due to good forward growth etc but that’s not the norm.

A picture doesn’t lie tho. It’s pretty accurate. Saying else is cope. Yes there are bad pics. But if you only have bad pics you might have to reconsider your self image

no i wasnt arguing with you, i was actually agreeing with you because i said they looked better from my perception as compared to their pictures. and dont get me wrong im ugly myself, i look like shit no matter how im looked at, its brutal for me. but i thought it was lifefuel for my friends. not that they care about their looks, they know they look good already and have gotten plenty of validation from females.

 

[one job away]

no i wasnt arguing with you, i was actually agreeing with you because i said they looked better from my perception as compared to their pictures. and dont get me wrong im ugly myself, i look like shit no matter how im looked at, its brutal for me. but i thought it was lifefuel for my friends. not that they care about their looks, they know they look good already and have gotten plenty of validation from females.

I explained why you look better irl in part #6 I think. Maybe that explains it ? I don’t really know tbh. All I was stating was logical facts and a bit of science of Human perception to make people understand better what they rather look like

 

[Michael Myers]

I explained why you look better irl in part #6 I think. Maybe that explains it ? I don’t really know tbh. All I was stating was logical facts and a bit of science of Human perception to make people understand better what they rather look like

i guess i dont know but i was just pleasantly surprised. i know it doesnt change shit for me but i hope it can make others feel better when they see bad pictures of themselves etc.

 

[Deleted member 9072]

gernally back camera at a good distance is true self but
there is camera quality that depends alot
lighting

 

[one job away]

gernally back camera at a good distance is true self but
there is camera quality that depends alot
lighting

Yeah some high quality cams really make a difference. Red carpet cams are usually so detailed you can see the pores on the skin. Stil if you look like shit irl you look shit there too

 

[Deleted member 17244]

Then you overrate them in person due to psychological factors.

no bro im not overrating them lol, they all get enough attention from girls. everyone says theyre good looking. they really are chadlites. but in pictures it doesnt show.

me too, i look much more better in mirror or real life than in pics, esp in rear camera. In that one my midface look worse than irl, more flat, cheekbones don't exist, lower third more narrow. In selfies and mirror I mog the most. Am I coping?

btw last time ive realized im the best looking in mirror car, prob due to lightening. Coloring Meeks tier, hollow cheeks, mogger lower third, midface seems to be shorter also (i have 0.9 midface ratio). In selfies it looks kinda worse, but also decent. However in rear camera i look like retard with flat narrow face.

 

[Foreverbrad]

If you don't look good in every possible situation it's over. Chad or death

 

[Компенсатор всего]

Good thread

 

[latino_]

This means if an image looks "ugly" or rather very unfamiliar compared to what you see inside the mirror that means that your brain corrected your looks according to what you feel like you look aka better looking than you actually are. If the picture of you looks very close to what you see inside the mirror then your brain doesnt trick you as much and the mirror is quite close to the truth.

WOAH

 

[bobsmith03]

To simplify the answer let’s define how you really look like, so the non mirrored version, as (R) and what you see inside the mirror, so the mirrored version, as (M).

Now if you take a selfie of yourself depending on the phone you get a (R) pic or an (M) pic of yourself. Some phone company’s programmed their cameras to flip the selfies to make a better impression.

Now factually (R) and (M) are exactly the same. Just flipped. Ther is actually 0 difference whatsoever, but you will perceive (M) as much better looking than (R).


Now the issue with selfies is the lens distortion. How can you avoid lens distortion? By creating distance. Mirrors are very handy for that since mirrors allow for a bigger distance AND a mirror doubles the distance by default.

In the end what im saying is you need to get a pic that is (M) and as less lens distorted as possible.

that can be a photo shoot, a mirror video , whatever.

Wouldn't that just be a mirror? like 4 feet away from a mirror is how you really look. so just take a mirror selfie. Also you look better mirrored since its more recognisable, you trust it more, its happening in real life so you can do fine adjustment and you look more alive as opposed to looking dead into a camera lens

 

[bradpittshairline]

how to 10x your body dysmorphia

 

[barettrealrx]

Often asked question so I hope this helps alot of people. If that's water for you nice, but many ppl still answer it wrong.
A lot of people see themselves in the mirror and think they are quite good looking, then they take a selfie and are shocked. Most likely I have good news for you. Unless you are really good at taking selfies the mirror is actually closer to the truth than the selfie(and yes taking selfies IS heavily affected by skill, you will realize that after reading this thread models can look like below average and vice versa). Now what's the closest?
So how do people see you? Is it how you look in selfies? mirror pics? the actual mirror? a "true" mirror? or a photoshoot?

tl dr: best objective ways are a mirror pic or depending on what you want a mirror video or a photoshoot are the best options. even those cant 100% represent you and are heavily affected by many of the following things but they are the best out of the options I listed.

Let's start with human perception first so I dont have to repeat it in every sentence. It's one of the most important factors actually. How you and others perceive you is HEAVILY influenced by what they or you think about you. If you are high status others will perceive you as better looking. If you yourself are in a good mood you will perceive yourself as better looking. Some pics of you might not be bad. You are just in a bad mood. So no picture can actually represent how others see you cuz that depends on their mood and their perception of you. Now that's out of the way lets get into objective facts.

#1 Why flipped selfie or true Mirrors lie

You are your biggest critic and fan at the same time. NOONE looks at you as much as yourself. You look into the mirror every single day your whole lifetime. Thus you are very used to every single feature of your face. That all happens subconscious however.
What does that mean tho?
It means that you are so familiar with your face that every single change no matter how minor will NEGATIVELY impact your perception of yourself (unless that change is a straight up improvement like a edited straighter nose which will not happen since it's just you but flipped. I'm only referring to flipping in this part). Humans like familiar faces more and perceive them as more attractive.
That is also the reason why flipped selfies or true mirrors are NOT how you look like. Yes it's true that the mirror is a flipped version of yourself but just as you are used to that flipped version everyone else is to your not flipped version.
A true mirror or a flipped selfie completly switches your familiar face around. Since you are so used to that flipped face AND you being yourselfs biggest critic that results in a massive change for you. Since you are not familiar with that face anymore it will impact how you see yourself negatively. For example if you have a slightly asymmetric nose you will be used to it over time and it will not appear as bad as it actually is. When you flip it however that change becomes even more apparent, due to your face now being unfamiliar and your nose will look worse than it actually is.That means EVERY foto that is flipped, compared to what you see in the mirror, will automatically be uglier to you than how others see you. True mirrors or flipped selfies are thus not how others see you.
Now a mirror is something you are very used to and thus will appear slighlty more attractive than how you actually are. But if you saw yourself for the first time ever, that would be closer to how you see yourself in the mirror than in a flipped selfies. The shock of a true mirror or a flipped selfie when seeing a totally different face outweighs the familiarity of the mirror by a lot.

Does that mean that if I flipped my face in real life people would see me as ugly as I see myself in a flipped selfie?
No. Due to the fact that they are not even close as familiar with your face as you are. For them the flipped version wouldnt be much of a difference. It would drag you down noticeably tho.
You can test that yourself by flipping a pic of a family member or a celebrity. It will look slighlty off to you.
That is because everyone has assymetrys but only you notice them as strongly.

Flipped anything results in a uglier perception of yourself than you actually are.


#2 Lenses and distances

Everyone knows about lens distortion yet for some weird reason ppl still say selfies are accurate lmao. Smartphones have small diameter lenses and they are close to your face.

The following pic ONLY accounts for the lens, not
for the distance. It's already a massive change.
View attachment 1115210

The next picture showcases lens distortion AND distance changes. It's already a massive change in the 35mm lens. The standard selfie lens is MUCH smaller even.
View attachment 1115213
The closer you are to your face the closer your nose is the the camera compared ro your ears. On a longer distance that relative distance becomes neglectable.


That means due to the lens distortion and the close up distance selfies are a terrible representation of yourself.


#3 Angles

Angles can make or break your face. Good side profiles are usually angle frauded. Try it yourself. Take a side profile pic from slighlty behind your ears and another one some cm infront of your ears. The mandible will appear much more appealing from the slighlty infron picture.
Same goes for the nose (especially nose) or any other part of your face.
The following pic showcases that WITHOUT major lens distortion.
View attachment 1115230

This becomes even more apparent with lens distortion and close up distance.


Now we can already conclude that SELFIES and TRUE MIRRORS are out of the equation for honest pictures.

What stands are mirror selfies photoshoots and the actual mirror. They arent perfect, I will go into that as well but the other two are just terrible.

A mirror basicly doubles the distances which makes it preferably already. Remember the bigger the distance the less lens distortion affects the picture.
However even back cameras for example from the iPhone 12 have MASSIVE lens distortion if your face is not centered. Try it four yourself. Take a picture where your face is on the upper edge of the screen. It will be very elongated (depending on the phone obviously). So try to keep your face centered.



#4 Lightning

There are only 2 kinds of lightning.
Good, preferable lightning or bad lighnting which makes you look worse.
There is no such thing as neutral lighting. It always changes in real life as well so dont expect there to be one honest set of lightning. There are many techniques I'm not gonna list in here that photographers use to help with the lighnting and fraud wrinkles away or fraud a better side. But just as good lighnting can fraud wrinkles away bad lighnting makes fat pads and wrinkles MORE apparent.

Here a reddit video that showcases it very well.


and here a picture for ppl who cant be bothered or in case the thread gets taken down. The video shows it much better tho.
View attachment 1115264

Notice how his NCT changes heavily depending on the lighnting and his skin looks saggy. The wrinkles become more apparent. The nose appears bigger. Overall the bad light makes him look older and depressed. The better lightning makes his skin smoother and he appears younger and happier.


#5 Motion vs stale images

This one is tricky. In reality our brains are wired to overlook assymetrys and a normal not BDD brain uses only the eyes and mouth as main anchor points when looking at someone. Our brain corrects minor failos basicly. In a picture our brains are not forced to use those anchor points as much which results into us giving slighlty more attention to those failos and assymetrys. So basicly that means most ppl will look better in person than in pictures.

So yeah a motion video will be closer to how people see you in person. A picture is closer to how you actually look. However that correction is ALWAYS active so neither a picture or a motion video is more accurate. But its somewhat of a lie.
That leaves us with stale images or motion videos as equally true. Depending on the situation one is closer to the truth than the other.

Another major difference is yet again lightning. As you saw lightning plays a huge role in attractiveness. While a stale image has a set lightning, a motion video shows more cases of your face structure under different conditions. That is closer to what people will see IRL again, since lightning will change there frequently as well.
Now a stale picture is not wrong. And in today's age of IG and so on just as important, it just showcases a very specific you.


#6 Why Mirrors "lie"

I went over a lot of it in why #1 Why true mirrors lie as well. Basicly since you see yourself every day you become familiar with that appearance and familiar = more attractive than it actually is. Besides that there are two other important factors.

Looking in the mirror, we usually focus on a particular part of our face like our lips, nose, eyes, etc., and we don’t realize how it looks all together. When looking at a pic, on the other hand, we perceive everything at once.

View attachment 1116056
That goes for every interaction with a person in real life as well so it's somewhat close to what others see in person. It's a result of our brains not being able to look at an entire face at once.
There is one major thing that makes the mirror our best looking version tho.
The live corrections also comes into play and will affect you depending on your mood. That corrections is by far the strongest for ourselves. Overall a mirror makes you appear better looking than you are. The improved self perception is also proved by Epley.

Spoiler

You Are Less Beautiful Than You Think

Dove's viral video gets it wrong

www.scientificamerican.com

In a series of studies, Epley and Whitchurch showed that we see ourselves as better looking than we actually are. The researchers took pictures of study participants and, using a computerized procedure, produced more attractive and less attractive versions of those pictures



People tend to say that an attractively enhanced picture is their own, but Epley and Whitchurch wanted to be sure that people truly believe what they say. People recognize objects more quickly when those objects match their mental representations. Therefore, if people truly believe that an attractively enhanced picture is their own, they should recognize that picture more quickly, which is exactly what the researchers found.

This means if an image looks "ugly" or rather very unfamiliar compared to what you see inside the mirror that means that your brain corrected your looks according to what you feel like you look aka better looking than you actually are. If the picture of you looks very close to what you see inside the mirror then your brain doesnt trick you as much and the mirror is quite close to the truth.


That concludes mirrors itself,selfies whether flipped or not and true mirrors as terrible options, and mirror pics or mirror videos and photoshoots as most honest options. Depending on the lighnting and angle those can be either good or bad. Lightning can also change the skin tone and so on.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle of your best and worst pics.

And remember it also heavily depends on your mood and how you think about yourself. Same goes for others. If someone looks up to you he will peceive you as better looking.

U can use 2 mirrors to see yourself ow others see you