How useful is bimax 3D planning really?

[Deleted member 18582]

I've had a few consults now with jaw surgeons where they show me my before and after in the 3d planning software. Then they ask me "well, what do you think" and I'm like, "well I don't know, I'm just a patient." When I look at those before afters, not even in the beffore does it seem to look enough like me to use it as an exclusive basis to decide how to proceed with the operation? It looked slightly dogmaxxed in the after of one, but then when I watched videos of other patients who underwent bimax and saw how their before/after looked in the software, they also looked slightly dogmaxxed in the simulated after, but looked good in person afterwards.

what do you all think of 3d planning

 

[HarrierDuBois]

@SurgeryEnjoyer and @anticel got it and their bimax looks great.

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

@SurgeryEnjoyer and @anticel got it and their bimax looks great.

Just design how you’re gonna break someone’s skull on mspaint theory.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Just design how you’re gonna break someone’s skull on mspaint theory.

Blindfolded katana lefort 3.

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

Blindfolded katana lefort 3.

We call it Dr. Andreischev where i’m from.

 

[tinderhacker]

What are your movements? And you will only look dogmaxxed if they do a linear advancement of the ANS

 

[John Cracovizk]

Blindfolded katana lefort 3.

I know it's water but how you know if you need lefort or mentoplasty?

 

[HarrierDuBois]

We call it Dr. Andreischev where i’m from.

Googled it and Jesus what a faggot surgeon, should be executed.

Also I'm still caging at blindfold katana man I'm too funny geez.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

I know it's water but how you know if you need lefort or mentoplasty?

Is your bite bad or your airways affected in any way? If not then mentoplasty.

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

Googled it and Jesus what a faggot surgeon, should be executed.

Also I'm still caging at blindfold katana man I'm too funny geez.

Same jfl, Sekiro : patients die twice.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Same jfl, Sekiro : patients die twice.

Botch of Tsushima.

 

[John Cracovizk]

Is your bite bad or your airways affected in any way? If not then mentoplasty.

Thanks, I'll prob visit a doc because I mouth breath when I sleep (also snoring is a problem to me)

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

Botch of Tsushima.

Jfl i’m screening this entire convo.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Thanks, I'll prob visit a doc because I mouth breath when I sleep (also snoring is a problem to me)

If you are snoring then you NEED bimax otherwise you will decrease your lifespan by 10-20 years.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

Just design how you’re gonna break someone’s skull on mspaint theory.

Did the simulation in the program actually look like you? I cant tell if the impression of dogmaxxing in nthe program comes from the actual skeletal proportions or if the program is just not convincingly accomodating the way lighting hits your face and soft tissue stuff etc. on paper, the movement im getting shouldnt make me look like that.

What are your movements? And you will only look dogmaxxed if they do a linear advancement of the ANS

10-11mm mandible
3mm genio
4mm maxilla
10deg ccw

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Jfl i’m screening this entire convo.

It's cage asf.

 

[John Cracovizk]

If you are snoring then you NEED bimax otherwise you will decrease your lifespan by 10-20 years.

If my health insurance pays for my Bimax will be the biggest life fuel ever

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

Did the simulation in the program actually look like you? I cant tell if the impression of dogmaxxing in nthe program comes from the actual skeletal proportions or if the program is just not convincingly accomodating the way lighting hits your face and soft tissue stuff etc. on paper, the movement im getting shouldnt make me look like that.

Looked slightly more projected in the simulation than irl.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

If my health insurance pays for my Bimax will be the biggest life fuel ever

Do NOT get bimax by the government they will botch so you hard you need a smart surgeon.

Looked slightly more projected in the simulation than irl.

Will just ask the surgeon to add 2 mm then get the result I want.

 

[John Cracovizk]

Do NOT get bimax by the government they will botch so you hard you need a smart surgeon.


Will just ask the surgeon to add 2 mm then get the result I want.

Ok, thanks for the advice, I'll save some money then and search for a good surgeon

 

[HerpDerpson]

If a surgeon has to rely on planning, that just means that his skill isn't up to the task. A real master of his craft should be able to wing it.

 

[tinderhacker]

Did the simulation in the program actually look like you? I cant tell if the impression of dogmaxxing in nthe program comes from the actual skeletal proportions or if the program is just not convincingly accomodating the way lighting hits your face and soft tissue stuff etc. on paper, the movement im getting shouldnt make me look like that.

10-11mm mandible
3mm genio
4mm maxilla
10deg ccw

ideal movements as far as atleast you won't get botched, can't say anymore without seeing what you look like and what you actually need

 

[Deleted member 18582]

ideal movements as far as atleast you won't get botched, can't say anymore without seeing what you look like and what you actually need

i am nervous and excited for my procedure

If a surgeon has to rely on planning, that just means that his skill isn't up to the task. A real master of his craft should be able to wing it.

He's not my surgeon, but the fact I heard a surgeon in Germany (Ramin Zarrinbal) went to art school at first and draws the faces of his patients instead of simulating them sounds kind of based. Artist!

 

[tinderhacker]

i am nervous and excited for my procedure



He's not my surgeon, but the fact I heard a surgeon in Germany (Ramin Zarrinbal) went to art school at first and draws the faces of his patients instead of simulating them sounds kind of based. Artist!

you should be. your movements don't take you outside the law of average, unlike some other users that I won't name.

Expect to look like yourself but 10% better

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Ok, thanks for the advice, I'll save some money then and search for a good surgeon

Same plan as me.

 

[longjohnmong]

Just look at @anticels simulation vs his actual results:

There's a significant difference. I didn't like my 3D simulation either - looked weird, overadvanced, bottom lip too advanced. None of that happened.

 

[Kamui]

0

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

Just look at @anticels simulation vs his actual results:

There's a significant difference. I didn't like my 3D simulation either - looked weird, overadvanced, bottom lip too advanced. None of that happened.

The software doesn’t account for soft tissue stretching as a result of the increased bone length/projection.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

Just look at @anticels simulation vs his actual results:

There's a significant difference. I didn't like my 3D simulation either - looked weird, overadvanced, bottom lip too advanced. None of that happened.

Thats good to hear.
It also seems to make the area on the maxilla parallel to the nose bridge seem very very dark. I know Im a little recessed there and Im getting the implant but it makes it look insanely sunken in or something, which influences my perception of the jaw movements.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

you should be. your movements don't take you outside the law of average, unlike some other users that I won't name.

Expect to look like yourself but 10% better

on the jawsurgery reddit i see a lot of people getting movements that would be called small here (i.e. less than 15mm) and look massively different which goes against the received knowledge here that bigger movements produce bigger aesthetic change. Many dont look much different though.

 

[tinderhacker]

on the jawsurgery reddit i see a lot of people getting movements that would be called small here (i.e. less than 15mm) and look massively different which goes against the received knowledge here that bigger movements produce bigger aesthetic change. Many dont look much different though.

I know exactly the posts you are referring to.

The more condylar resorption you have the more dramatic your before and after are going to be

If someone has a unusually small ramus and they get significant ccw they will ALWAYS have a dramatic change. Most surgeons are inept and don't know how to move the mandible in RELATION to the counter clockwise movement even if the surgical plan says they will perform ccw.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

I know exactly the posts you are referring to.

The more condylar resorption you have the more dramatic your before and after are going to be

View attachment 2441881View attachment 2441885

If someone has a unusually small ramus and they get significant ccw they will ALWAYS have a dramatic change. Most surgeons are inept and don't know how to move the mandible in RELATION to the counter clockwise movement even if the surgical plan says they will perform ccw.

interesting, til.

In my case I am downgrown but my mandible is much bigger and ramus much longer than i would have expected given my soft tissue appearance. Some people have said this means I can expect an especially good result but maybe thats not necessarily true?

 

[Ifter]

my visualisation looked very bad but doctor said it doesn't look properly. Real result is very satysfying for me

 

[tinderhacker]

interesting, til.

In my case I am downgrown but my mandible is much bigger and ramus much longer than i would have expected given my soft tissue appearance. Some people have said this means I can expect an especially good result but maybe thats not necessarily true?

If your ramus is truly long and your bigonials are wide, you can IMPROVE quite comfortably just from the CCW. But if the bigonials are lacking you can opt for a PMMA implant at the same time as the bimax. Its not a uncommon coupling.

This guy got PMMA implants with his bimax. Insane improvment but still sub-htn.


As far as expecting a guaranteed ASCENSION I won't give you the same assurance as others. The only people that ascend from bimax are people that have SFS

 

[Deleted member 18582]

my visualisation looked very bad but doctor said it doesn't look properly. Real result is very satysfying for me

Ok cool this seems to be what most people are telling me so I wont labor too much over it.

 

[anticel]

depends on the program.

 

[Interested]

Just design how you’re gonna break someone’s skull on mspaint theory.

Already got your bimax? Gratz mate. How are the results?

 

[longjohnmong]

Most surgeons are inept and don't know how to move the mandible in RELATION to the counter clockwise movement

What does this mean? The mandible movement mostly is the counter clockwise movement.

 

[longjohnmong]

As far as expecting a guaranteed ASCENSION I won't give you the same assurance as others. The only people that ascend from bimax are people that have SFS

View attachment 2441954View attachment 2441961

Plenty of Class III ascensions:

 

[SurgeryEnjoyer]

Already got your bimax? Gratz mate. How are the results?

Pretty good ngl.

 

[tinderhacker]

What does this mean? The mandible movement mostly is the counter clockwise movement.

Meaning they don't select the correct pivot point for their rotation. You can rotate at the ANS, incisors, PNS, but they will all vary for the result you are trying to achieve.

Alot of pussy ass niggas never mention that they are getting bimax for cosmetic reasons and the surgeons uses ANS as the pivot which fucks up the aesthetic result.

not all CCWs are equal. It all depends on the pivot point the surgeon is using to rotate everything else.

 

[tinderhacker]

Plenty of Class III ascensions:

Most class 3 patients actually get mandibular setback and look like shit. He was blessed with a good surgeon. But by far sfs patients have the best and most frequent ascensions.

 

[the_adonis_truecel]

ideal movements as far as atleast you won't get botched, can't say anymore without seeing what you look like and what you actually need

could still get botched if the occlusal plane isn't higher than 15 and he gets 10 deg CCWr... you dont want the OP to approach negative numbers

 

[the_adonis_truecel]

I know exactly the posts you are referring to.

The more condylar resorption you have the more dramatic your before and after are going to be

View attachment 2441881View attachment 2441885

If someone has a unusually small ramus and they get significant ccw they will ALWAYS have a dramatic change. Most surgeons are inept and don't know how to move the mandible in RELATION to the counter clockwise movement even if the surgical plan says they will perform ccw.

Kinda like my case if surgery is well done

 

[tinderhacker]

Kinda like my case if surgery is well done

Have you picked your surgeon yet? If you're in the states I would suggest Walline (la) or Movahed (missouri)

 

[the_adonis_truecel]

Have you picked your surgeon yet? If you're in the states I would suggest Walline (la) or Movahed (missouri)

I'm going with a local for now, as he agreed to advance and rotate me a lot and i'll be present for the planning also. I may change eventually if planning doesn't go as expected

Obv i would go with Li/Wolford/Walline if i could afford it

I had a consult with Sullivan and he agreed for optimal advancement i would need TJR to lengthen the ramus, but it's over 100k USD

 

[longjohnmong]

the surgeons uses ANS as the pivot which fucks up the aesthetic result.

I don't think it's quite this simple and some retard is bound to read this and then freak out and cancel their surgery because their surgeon was going to rotate about the ANS.

 

[RandomGREY]

If your ramus is truly long and your bigonials are wide, you can IMPROVE quite comfortably just from the CCW. But if the bigonials are lacking you can opt for a PMMA implant at the same time as the bimax. Its not a uncommon coupling.

View attachment 2441942 This guy got PMMA implants with his bimax. Insane improvment but still sub-htn.


As far as expecting a guaranteed ASCENSION I won't give you the same assurance as others. The only people that ascend from bimax are people that have SFS

View attachment 2441954View attachment 2441961

Bruh this e

Most class 3 patients actually get mandibular setback and look like shit. He was blessed with a good surgeon. But by far sfs patients have the best and most frequent ascensions.

lifefuel for me

 

[RandomGREY]

Meaning they don't select the correct pivot point for their rotation. You can rotate at the ANS, incisors, PNS, but they will all vary for the result you are trying to achieve.

Alot of pussy ass niggas never mention that they are getting bimax for cosmetic reasons and the surgeons uses ANS as the pivot which fucks up the aesthetic result.

not all CCWs are equal. It all depends on the pivot point the surgeon is using to rotate everything else.

Could you tell me what the pivot point is in this trimax plan?

 

[longjohnmong]

Could you tell me what the pivot point is in this trimax plan?

Looks like upper incisor tip, since that's the point that isn't moving.