So, basically death?
Parinirvana after death which is the same but supposedly permanent. But the "experience" of Nirvana in meditation is a temporary state lasting from a fraction of a second to even 7 days, in which you have no consciousness at all, no experience, like being under deep anesthesia, but the difference is that when you come back you are not groggy at all but immediately fully conscious and alert with great afterglow
you cant experience unconsciousness, buddhists are dumb
Nirvana is super consciousness. You probably mean samadhi which is a cessation of experience rooted in duality .
These two guys are heavy-weight meditators with years spent on retreats meditating 10+ hours a day with masters from different traditions:
deconstructingyourself.com
Theravada has gone to shit. Nagarjuna saved Buddhism and only Mahayana is legit.
im going to panic reading this because of how retarded and unaware this guy is. horrifyingThese two guys are heavy-weight meditators with years spent on retreats meditating 10+ hours a day with masters from different traditions:
From podcasts https://deconstructingyourself.com/dy-003-masters-oblivion-guest-kenneth-folk.html
The Cosmic Joke - with Kenneth Folk
Pragmatic dharma teacher Kenneth Folk and host Michael W. Taft look at suffering machines, ways to suspend the necessary conditions for suffering, The Terminator, state chasing, and getting the cosmic joke.
Kenneth: So suffering is certainly suspended in that moment by this definition of suffering. And interestingly, various contemplative traditions teach you to train the mind in various ways to achieve unconsciousness. As odd as that may seem to some, I would argue that in TheravādaBuddhism one of the main interpretations of nirvāṇa or nibbāna in Pali is “out like a light” – complete unconsciousness. You have exactly the same consciousness as a rock, which is to say none. And there is no suffering in that situation.
Michael: That’s right. And “out like a light” is even the literal translation of nibbāna. And I would also add in that the Hindu concept of nirvikalpa is something along the same lines – some kind of total blackout, at least for a moment.
Kenneth: Yes. And in the Mahasi tradition of Burmese TheravādaBuddhism they teach you to access a blackout. They equate that with nibbāna.They say that is nibbāna or nirvāṇa. And they call it cessation.That’s another thing that’s called, or nirodha. And it’s a highly revered condition. I’m hesitating to call it a state because I imagine that might require someone to have that state, and here we just have non-experience.
Michael: But we could say that it’s a state of the organism.
Kenneth: Okay, yes. It’s a state of the organism of complete and utter unconsciousness. Now, this leads into a really interesting discussion about nirvāṇa and about popular ideas of what nirvāṇa is. I’m going to return to the rest of the conditions for suffering in a minute, but let’s take a little side trip here and talk about nirvāṇa.
Michael: Yeah, let’s talk about nirvāṇa. And remember, for those who don’t know, that nirvāṇa is the Sanskrit way of saying nibbāna,so they’re identical terms.
Kenneth: Okay. Yes. So nirvāṇa or nibbāna, it’s almost universally misunderstood as something I’m going to like.
Michael: “It’s heaven!”
Kenneth: It’s heaven. So those of us who are immersed in Christian culture will naturally superimpose our ideas of heaven onto nirvāṇa.
Michael: And I would contend that it’s not just Christian culture that does that, but even popular Asian Buddhist culture seems to feel that nibbāna or nirvāṇa is a nice place.
Kenneth: Right. And this is surprisingly hard to counter. If someone has that idea, you can tell them, “Well, no, I’m pretty sure that’s not what’s meant by the word nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa is lights out,” and they will naturally then think, “Oh, well, lights out in some way that I’m not really there, but some essence that is the real essence of me is there and liking it.”
Michael: There’s an awareness of how wonderful the blanked-outness is or something like that.
Kenneth: Right, there’s an awareness – maybe there’s some union with Brahman or union with Godhead that is somehow aware of how wonderful it is that I’m blanked out. But that isn’t what it means. It means you’re just as out as you are when you go to sleep at night and don’t dream.
-------------
Kenneth: I so agree that I find it puzzling that the idea of oblivion is frightening – and I know it is; I know for a lot of people that’s a terribly frightening idea. And it’s problematic when I say, as I sometimes do, that the subjective experience, if you will, of oblivion, is exactly the same as the subjective experience or lack of experience of nirvāṇa.
Michael: Yeah, that is the same idea, right? Nirvāṇa is oblivion. It actually means oblivion.
Kenneth: I agree, and that’s surprisingly not well-understood or not well-known especially, I think, among Western Buddhists.
Michael: Yeah, we’re all polluted by an idea of heaven.
Kenneth: Yes. And even if you say that the original meaning of the word nibbāna or nirvāṇa, depending on whether it’sPali language or Sanskrit, if you say that this is what it means, it means the absence of experience, people will argue with you about that. They’ll say, “No,it couldn’t possibly mean that. It never did mean that.” So all we have to do is accept that one legitimate definition of nirvāṇa is “out like a light, no experience whatsoever,” even if we can also accept that some people mean something else by it, but that there is a very legitimate tradition in Buddhism, going back, I would argue, to the earliest Buddhists, that defined nirvāṇa as “lights out, no experience.”
Michael: Yeah, the earliest Buddhists, including the Buddha, right? For the record, as you’re mentioning, nirvāṇa literally means “to blow out.” It literally means “extinction,” like blowing out a candle flame.
Kenneth: Blowing out like a candle, yes.
its mind boggling how insentient these 2 fools areThese two guys are heavy-weight meditators with years spent on retreats meditating 10+ hours a day with masters from different traditions:
From podcasts https://deconstructingyourself.com/dy-003-masters-oblivion-guest-kenneth-folk.html
The Cosmic Joke - with Kenneth Folk
Pragmatic dharma teacher Kenneth Folk and host Michael W. Taft look at suffering machines, ways to suspend the necessary conditions for suffering, The Terminator, state chasing, and getting the cosmic joke.
Kenneth: So suffering is certainly suspended in that moment by this definition of suffering. And interestingly, various contemplative traditions teach you to train the mind in various ways to achieve unconsciousness. As odd as that may seem to some, I would argue that in TheravādaBuddhism one of the main interpretations of nirvāṇa or nibbāna in Pali is “out like a light” – complete unconsciousness. You have exactly the same consciousness as a rock, which is to say none. And there is no suffering in that situation.
Michael: That’s right. And “out like a light” is even the literal translation of nibbāna. And I would also add in that the Hindu concept of nirvikalpa is something along the same lines – some kind of total blackout, at least for a moment.
Kenneth: Yes. And in the Mahasi tradition of Burmese TheravādaBuddhism they teach you to access a blackout. They equate that with nibbāna.They say that is nibbāna or nirvāṇa. And they call it cessation.That’s another thing that’s called, or nirodha. And it’s a highly revered condition. I’m hesitating to call it a state because I imagine that might require someone to have that state, and here we just have non-experience.
Michael: But we could say that it’s a state of the organism.
Kenneth: Okay, yes. It’s a state of the organism of complete and utter unconsciousness. Now, this leads into a really interesting discussion about nirvāṇa and about popular ideas of what nirvāṇa is. I’m going to return to the rest of the conditions for suffering in a minute, but let’s take a little side trip here and talk about nirvāṇa.
Michael: Yeah, let’s talk about nirvāṇa. And remember, for those who don’t know, that nirvāṇa is the Sanskrit way of saying nibbāna,so they’re identical terms.
Kenneth: Okay. Yes. So nirvāṇa or nibbāna, it’s almost universally misunderstood as something I’m going to like.
Michael: “It’s heaven!”
Kenneth: It’s heaven. So those of us who are immersed in Christian culture will naturally superimpose our ideas of heaven onto nirvāṇa.
Michael: And I would contend that it’s not just Christian culture that does that, but even popular Asian Buddhist culture seems to feel that nibbāna or nirvāṇa is a nice place.
Kenneth: Right. And this is surprisingly hard to counter. If someone has that idea, you can tell them, “Well, no, I’m pretty sure that’s not what’s meant by the word nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa is lights out,” and they will naturally then think, “Oh, well, lights out in some way that I’m not really there, but some essence that is the real essence of me is there and liking it.”
Michael: There’s an awareness of how wonderful the blanked-outness is or something like that.
Kenneth: Right, there’s an awareness – maybe there’s some union with Brahman or union with Godhead that is somehow aware of how wonderful it is that I’m blanked out. But that isn’t what it means. It means you’re just as out as you are when you go to sleep at night and don’t dream.
-------------
Kenneth: I so agree that I find it puzzling that the idea of oblivion is frightening – and I know it is; I know for a lot of people that’s a terribly frightening idea. And it’s problematic when I say, as I sometimes do, that the subjective experience, if you will, of oblivion, is exactly the same as the subjective experience or lack of experience of nirvāṇa.
Michael: Yeah, that is the same idea, right? Nirvāṇa is oblivion. It actually means oblivion.
Kenneth: I agree, and that’s surprisingly not well-understood or not well-known especially, I think, among Western Buddhists.
Michael: Yeah, we’re all polluted by an idea of heaven.
Kenneth: Yes. And even if you say that the original meaning of the word nibbāna or nirvāṇa, depending on whether it’sPali language or Sanskrit, if you say that this is what it means, it means the absence of experience, people will argue with you about that. They’ll say, “No,it couldn’t possibly mean that. It never did mean that.” So all we have to do is accept that one legitimate definition of nirvāṇa is “out like a light, no experience whatsoever,” even if we can also accept that some people mean something else by it, but that there is a very legitimate tradition in Buddhism, going back, I would argue, to the earliest Buddhists, that defined nirvāṇa as “lights out, no experience.”
Michael: Yeah, the earliest Buddhists, including the Buddha, right? For the record, as you’re mentioning, nirvāṇa literally means “to blow out.” It literally means “extinction,” like blowing out a candle flame.
Kenneth: Blowing out like a candle, yes.
buddhism is utter trash. they got some very simple things correct out of luck
these fools cant even momentarily self cease consciousness in expectance of some suffering like getting tortured, when it would only be valuableThese two guys are heavy-weight meditators with years spent on retreats meditating 10+ hours a day with masters from different traditions:
From podcasts https://deconstructingyourself.com/dy-003-masters-oblivion-guest-kenneth-folk.html
The Cosmic Joke - with Kenneth Folk
Pragmatic dharma teacher Kenneth Folk and host Michael W. Taft look at suffering machines, ways to suspend the necessary conditions for suffering, The Terminator, state chasing, and getting the cosmic joke.
Kenneth: So suffering is certainly suspended in that moment by this definition of suffering. And interestingly, various contemplative traditions teach you to train the mind in various ways to achieve unconsciousness. As odd as that may seem to some, I would argue that in TheravādaBuddhism one of the main interpretations of nirvāṇa or nibbāna in Pali is “out like a light” – complete unconsciousness. You have exactly the same consciousness as a rock, which is to say none. And there is no suffering in that situation.
Michael: That’s right. And “out like a light” is even the literal translation of nibbāna. And I would also add in that the Hindu concept of nirvikalpa is something along the same lines – some kind of total blackout, at least for a moment.
Kenneth: Yes. And in the Mahasi tradition of Burmese TheravādaBuddhism they teach you to access a blackout. They equate that with nibbāna.They say that is nibbāna or nirvāṇa. And they call it cessation.That’s another thing that’s called, or nirodha. And it’s a highly revered condition. I’m hesitating to call it a state because I imagine that might require someone to have that state, and here we just have non-experience.
Michael: But we could say that it’s a state of the organism.
Kenneth: Okay, yes. It’s a state of the organism of complete and utter unconsciousness. Now, this leads into a really interesting discussion about nirvāṇa and about popular ideas of what nirvāṇa is. I’m going to return to the rest of the conditions for suffering in a minute, but let’s take a little side trip here and talk about nirvāṇa.
Michael: Yeah, let’s talk about nirvāṇa. And remember, for those who don’t know, that nirvāṇa is the Sanskrit way of saying nibbāna,so they’re identical terms.
Kenneth: Okay. Yes. So nirvāṇa or nibbāna, it’s almost universally misunderstood as something I’m going to like.
Michael: “It’s heaven!”
Kenneth: It’s heaven. So those of us who are immersed in Christian culture will naturally superimpose our ideas of heaven onto nirvāṇa.
Michael: And I would contend that it’s not just Christian culture that does that, but even popular Asian Buddhist culture seems to feel that nibbāna or nirvāṇa is a nice place.
Kenneth: Right. And this is surprisingly hard to counter. If someone has that idea, you can tell them, “Well, no, I’m pretty sure that’s not what’s meant by the word nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa is lights out,” and they will naturally then think, “Oh, well, lights out in some way that I’m not really there, but some essence that is the real essence of me is there and liking it.”
Michael: There’s an awareness of how wonderful the blanked-outness is or something like that.
Kenneth: Right, there’s an awareness – maybe there’s some union with Brahman or union with Godhead that is somehow aware of how wonderful it is that I’m blanked out. But that isn’t what it means. It means you’re just as out as you are when you go to sleep at night and don’t dream.
-------------
Kenneth: I so agree that I find it puzzling that the idea of oblivion is frightening – and I know it is; I know for a lot of people that’s a terribly frightening idea. And it’s problematic when I say, as I sometimes do, that the subjective experience, if you will, of oblivion, is exactly the same as the subjective experience or lack of experience of nirvāṇa.
Michael: Yeah, that is the same idea, right? Nirvāṇa is oblivion. It actually means oblivion.
Kenneth: I agree, and that’s surprisingly not well-understood or not well-known especially, I think, among Western Buddhists.
Michael: Yeah, we’re all polluted by an idea of heaven.
Kenneth: Yes. And even if you say that the original meaning of the word nibbāna or nirvāṇa, depending on whether it’sPali language or Sanskrit, if you say that this is what it means, it means the absence of experience, people will argue with you about that. They’ll say, “No,it couldn’t possibly mean that. It never did mean that.” So all we have to do is accept that one legitimate definition of nirvāṇa is “out like a light, no experience whatsoever,” even if we can also accept that some people mean something else by it, but that there is a very legitimate tradition in Buddhism, going back, I would argue, to the earliest Buddhists, that defined nirvāṇa as “lights out, no experience.”
Michael: Yeah, the earliest Buddhists, including the Buddha, right? For the record, as you’re mentioning, nirvāṇa literally means “to blow out.” It literally means “extinction,” like blowing out a candle flame.
Kenneth: Blowing out like a candle, yes.
Wait, aren't you the guy that was arguing with me in "psychedelics only reduce brain activity" thread?
