I cant believe there is nothing to fix a downward growth in 2025!

[moze]

We have the latest technology,Ai and stuff and still dont have anything to reverse a downward growth.they use piezo to split the maxilla but why wouldnt they use that to loosen the other sutures and build a headgear with good bone anchorage.there is no surgery a normal person can get to fix this so things like headgear will be the only way

 

[bracemaxxer]

There is. Check out wholebodybreathing. People there have gotten ccw rotation in there 20s and 30s. Look into myobrace if you have an overbite or issues similar like crowding.

 

[moze]

There is. Check out wholebodybreathing. People there have gotten ccw rotation in there 20s and 30s. Look into myobrace if you have an overbite or issues similar like crowding.

Bro wholebody breathing is full of copers.i saw people say that ron became more attractive after his mse

 

[Angutoid]

I wish i had downgrowth ive seen a lot of gl people with it but never a single one with SFS

 

[moze]

I wish i had downgrowth ive seen a lot of gl people with it but never a single one with SFS

Yea but people with sfs can ascend well with bimax coz their uppermaxilla is not downgrown

 

[Snicket]

We have the latest technology,Ai and stuff and still dont have anything to reverse a downward growth.they use piezo to split the maxilla but why wouldnt they use that to loosen the other sutures and build a headgear with good bone anchorage.there is no surgery a normal person can get to fix this so things like headgear will be the only way

Because there is no facemask which can achieve an upswing of the facial skeleton, even if you loosen other sutures. This is really pseudo-science. You'll say they can "invent" something but think about mechanically what a facemask does in terms of forces. Loosening other sutures would be highly dangerous and potentially worse than just going on the operating table.

 

[Snicket]

Here is a child who used head gear at 8 years old. You can see that she improved her gummy smile but is still quite clearly downward grown. Facemasks will only achieve substantial dentoalveolar changes. Expecting some new facemask to do anything more is like expecting a new car to turn into a jumbo jet. Cutting into the face with piezo saws and then using a facemask is dangerous and stupid.

 

[moze]

View attachment 3465292View attachment 3465291

Here is a child who used head gear at 8 years old. You can see that she improved her gummy smile but is still quite clearly downward grown. Facemasks will only achieve substantial dentoalveolar changes. Expecting some new facemask to do anything more is like expecting a new car to turn into a jumbo jet. Cutting into the face with piezo saws and then using a facemask is dangerous and stupid.

Thats because the direction of force is not upward and forward

 

[Snicket]

Thats because the direction of force is not upward and forward

Yes it is. Look at the jaws, they're clearly further forward and more upward - but not by much. Facemasks will never achieve the major craniofacial changes you're looking for. It's not possible. You need highly invasive treatments to meaningfully change facial structure. It's a great preventative treatment for bimax though.

 

[moze]

Yes it is. Look at the jaws, they're clearly further forward and more upward - but not by much. Facemasks will never achieve the major craniofacial changes you're looking for. It's not possible. You need highly invasive treatments to meaningfully change facial structure.

You cant say that it wont work.lets wait for 2years if there isnt anything that fix this i will go for bimax

 

[Snicket]

You cant say that it wont work.lets wait for 2years if there isnt anything that fix this i will go for bimax

It works for fixing underdeveloped jaws but not much beyond that. Look at where the facemask actually exerts forces. It's pretty much all in the dentoalveolar region.

What you want is something that isn't a facemask. It's like waiting two years in the hope of a new car model that can fly over the Atlantic.

 

[moze]

It works for fixing underdeveloped jaws but not much beyond that. Look at where the facemask actually exerts forces. It's pretty much all in the dentoalveolar region.
View attachment 3465303View attachment 3465304

What you want is something that isn't a facemask. It's like waiting two years in the hope of a new car model that can fly over the Atlantic.

Combined it with a good bone anchored expander can exert force on the entire maxilla.after expanding a certain amount all the cranial bone loosens from the maxilla then maxilla can be moved freely

 

[bimaxmaxxer]

Doesn't bimax with ccw not fix downgrowness?

 

[moze]

Doesn't bimax with ccw not fix downgrowness?

Not completely bro.it doesnt fix the changes in uppermaxilla

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Doesn't bimax with ccw not fix downgrowness?

It does, but someone with compact face wouldn't benefit as much from it.

 

[bimaxmaxxer]

Not completely bro.it doesnt fix the changes in uppermaxilla

I see what you mean, maybe it's possible to camouflage it with implants?

 

[Snicket]

Combined it with a good bone anchored expander can exert force on the entire maxilla.after expanding a certain amount all the cranial bone loosens from the maxilla then maxilla can be moved freely

I don't think splitting your entire skulls open is the revolutionary idea you think it is.

Can you imagine how dangerous splitting the sutures of the upper maxilla would be? Imagine falling over with a loose infraorbital region. I'd rather be operated on in a controlled environment.

Facemasks overwhelmingly exert forces on the jaws - not the entire maxillary complex. So even if you loosened other sutures, I don't see how that would have the desired effect.

What you're proposing seems more like the concept of distraction osteogenesis than anything else

 

[Never Get Up]

I’ve already given the cure millions of times.

 

[bimaxmaxxer]

I’ve already given the cure millions of times.

Is it grinding & hustling?

 

[moze]

I’ve already given the cure millions of times.

What?

 

[moze]

I don't think splitting your entire skulls open is the revolutionary idea you think it is.

Can you imagine how dangerous splitting the sutures of the upper maxilla would be? Imagine falling over with a loose infraorbital region. I'd rather be operated on in a controlled environment.

Facemasks overwhelmingly exert forces on the jaws - not the entire maxillary complex. So even if you loosened other sutures, I don't see how that would have the desired effect.

What you're proposing seems more like the concept of distraction osteogenesis than anything else

It doesnt split the suture as you think it does.

 

[Snicket]

It doesnt split the suture as you think it does.

Splitting the sutures of the entire maxilla and advancing it is dangerous and must be done in a controlled environment. Movement isn't enough either.

Precise and accurate movements are vital, especially in the upper maxilla, which is why coronal incisions are made in high-level osteotomies.

Regardless, facemasks will never mobilise the entire mid-face in the way you want. It's impossible.

You couldn't tell that the girl's jaws had clearly moved forward and upwards.

If you don't understand the mechanism of the basic headgear, then how can you hope to propose some innovative, new strategy?

 

[moze]

Splitting the sutures of the entire maxilla and advancing it is dangerous and must be done in a controlled environment. Movement isn't enough either.

Precise and accurate movements are vital, especially in the upper maxilla, which is why coronal incisions are made in high-level osteotomies to literally get to the skull itself.

Regardless, facemasks will never mobilise the entire mid-face in the way you want. It's impossible.

You couldn't tell that the girl's jaws had clearly moved forward and upwards.

If you don't understand the mechanism of the basic headgear, then how can you hope to propose some innovative, new strategy?

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/02/0a/22/910df53838a029/WO2020014648A9.pdf

Take a look at this

 

[Snicket]

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/02/0a/22/910df53838a029/WO2020014648A9.pdf

Take a look at this

Okay in preliminary reading, this paper contradicts several things you've been saying:

1. Its focus is fixing maxillary retrusion - not downward growth. The target seems to be class 3s from what I can make out.

2. Its USP is to avoid negative anchorage points, which can cause mandibular, cheekbone, neck recession from conventional headgear.

3. It never claims to mobilise the entire maxillary complex. It just seems to be a proposed upgrade to existing headgear, not a reinvention of the wheel.

If I am wrong on any point, use the paper to show me any contradictions.

 

[Snicket]

For anyone interested, here is the proposed design:

Note: that's all it is, a proposal. I can't find any mention of it in academic papers on any case studies with control groups.

 

[moze]

Okay in preliminary reading, this paper contradicts several things you've been saying:

1. Its focus is fixing maxillary retrusion - not downward growth. The target seems to be class 3s from what I can make out.

2. Its USP is to avoid negative anchorage points, which can cause mandibular, cheekbone, neck recession from conventional headgear.

3. It never claims to mobilise the entire maxillary complex. It just seems to be a proposed upgrade to existing headgear, not a reinvention of the wheel.

If I am wrong on any point, use the paper to show me any contradictions.

I am pretty sure that you didnt read all of it coz they mentioned that it can move the maxilla upwards and they also mentioned about moving whole maxilla forward

 

[moze]

For anyone interested, here is the proposed design:

View attachment 3465489
Note: that's all it is, a proposal. I can't find any mention of it in academic papers on any case studies with control groups.

That because its not out yet it will come out in coming months

 

[Snicket]

I am pretty sure that you didnt read all of it coz they mentioned that it can move the maxilla upwards

Where?

and they also mentioned about moving whole maxilla forward

Yes, I said this. It never claims to move the entire maxillary complex. It just seems like an improved head gear device which avoids recession from "negative anchorage points". Headgear devices are also known as maxillary protraction devices.

That because its not out yet it will come out in coming months

This is relevant because there is no data yet. It's all speculative but even their patent doesn't claim to do what you are saying.