Is it true that an excess of GH/IGF-1 can cause ossification of growth plates, which may even reduce potential height?

[olkn2890]

Here’s what “Perplexity” gave me about this topic:

Premature Growth Plate Ossification Due to Elevated GH and IGF-1 Levels: Mechanisms

Elevated levels of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) significantly impact skeletal development, often resulting in premature growth plate ossification. This comprehensive analysis explores the mechanisms behind this phenomenon and examines potential preventive strategies for managing conditions characterized by GH excess.

Normal Role of GH and IGF-1 in Bone Development
Growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 play fundamental roles in skeletal growth during puberty and bone health throughout life. GH increases tissue formation by acting both directly and indirectly on target cells, while IGF-1 serves as a critical mediator of bone growth. These hormones represent a major signaling system for bone development and remodeling.

Under normal conditions, GH and IGF-1 maintain a delicate balance that ensures proper longitudinal and transverse bone accrual. IGF-1 is essential for the development of the growing skeleton, influencing both dimensions of bone growth and maintaining bone mass during late adulthood and aging. Studies with IGF-1-deficient mice have demonstrated that these animals exhibit skeletal malformations, delayed mineralization, reduced chondrocyte proliferation, and increased chondrocyte apoptosis, highlighting the crucial role of IGF-1 in normal bone development.

Growth Plate Structure and Function

Growth plates (epiphyseal plates) are specialized cartilaginous structures located at the ends of long bones that are responsible for longitudinal bone growth. They consist of three distinct zones:
1. Resting zone - containing progenitor cells
2. Proliferative zone - where chondrocytes rapidly divide
3. Hypertrophic zone - where chondrocytes enlarge and eventually undergo apoptosis
In the natural growth process, the balance between chondrocyte proliferation and terminal differentiation determines the rate of bone growth. Eventually, growth plates close (ossify) when chondrocyte proliferation ceases and the entire structure is replaced by bone.

Mechanisms of Premature Growth Plate Ossification with Elevated GH/IGF-1

Accelerated Chondrocyte Maturation
Excessive GH and IGF-1 levels accelerate the transition of chondrocytes from the proliferative to the hypertrophic state. This premature maturation disrupts the normal sequence of events in the growth plate, leading to earlier ossification. Research indicates that epigenetic changes in the methylation of genomic DNA may limit chondrocyte replication under certain conditions, though the exact cellular programmed factors related to these theories have yet to be clearly elucidated.

Altered Growth Plate Signaling Pathways

Elevated GH/IGF-1 modifies several signaling pathways critical for growth plate function:
1. Enhanced MAPK signaling - Excess IGF-1 overstimulates the MAPK pathway, accelerating chondrocyte differentiation
2. Disruption of PTHrP/Ihh feedback loop - This crucial regulatory mechanism controls the pace of chondrocyte differentiation
3. Increased production of VEGF - Promoting premature vascularization of the growth plate

Imbalance in Bone Remodeling
Chronic exposure to high GH/IGF-1 levels creates an imbalance in bone remodeling processes. Both GH and IGF-1 administration significantly increase bone resorption and bone formation in most studies. In acromegaly, a condition characterized by excessive GH and IGF-1 production due to pituitary tumors, this imbalance manifests as increased bone mineral density (BMD) but paradoxically higher fracture risk. This suggests that the quality of bone, rather than merely its quantity, is compromised.

Abnormal Matrix Production and Mineralization
Excessive GH stimulation leads to abnormal production of extracellular matrix components within the growth plate. Studies in mouse models of GH excess (bGH) showed progressive intervertebral disc degeneration with hypertrophic ossification in spine joints. Histological analysis revealed notochordal cell loss and chondrocyte-like cell infiltration, resulting in fibrous transformation. Additionally, abnormal bone formation near and inside the annulus fibrosus, end plate calcification and ossification, and disc height reduction were observed.

Age-Dependent Effects
The timing of GH/IGF-1 elevation significantly impacts its effects on bone development. Research with inducible LID mice (in which serum IGF-1 levels are depleted at selected ages) demonstrates that IGF-1’s influence on bone is temporal and compartment-specific. Similarly, the effects of elevated GH/IGF-1 vary depending on when the excess occurs relative to skeletal maturity.

I also asked an AI “Can aromatase inhibitors prevent this thing, so i would get benefits from elevated levels without growth plates ossification” and it told me:

The effect of premature closure of growth zones due to elevated levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 is usually stronger and more pronounced than the effect of delayed closure of growth plates when using aromatase inhibitors.

Why?
• Elevated GH and IGF-1 stimulate accelerated maturation and hypertrophy of chondrocytes in the growth plates, which leads to premature ossification and closure of growth plates, limiting the final growth.
• Aromatase inhibitors slow down the conversion of androgens into estrogens, which are key mediators of growth plates closure, and thus can delay this process, increasing the duration of growth and final growth.
• However, aromatase inhibitors do not eliminate the effect of accelerated chondrocyte maturation caused by an excess of GH/IGF-1, but only slow down the estrogen-dependent part of the closure of growth plates.


So, what do i do? Is it true? Can i somehow prevent it?

 

[RapeAllFemales]

Idk but i found out that i grow from 5'10 to 5'11 and im still growing after 20s just spam milk and white sugar for igf-1 insuline spike

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Idk but i found out that i grow from 5'10 to 5'11 and im still growing after 20s just spam milk and white sugar for igf-1 insuline spike

You probably just don’t know how to measure tbh.

 

[Britva]

Idk but i found out that i grow from 5'10 to 5'11 and im still growing after 20s just spam milk and white sugar for igf-1 insuline spike

Why not hgh if ur growth plates are open

 

[RapeAllFemales]

You probably just don’t know how to measure tbh.

No also other people mentioned that im taller now

 

[Sub3overforme]

Idk but i found out that i grow from 5'10 to 5'11 and im still growing after 20s just spam milk and white sugar for igf-1 insuline spike

Replace sugar with honey, same effect

 

[Avirochad]

if GH and IGF-1 reduced height growth they wouldn't be successfully used to increase final height, which they are in many studies, clinically and anecdotally.

 

[Inosebreathonly]

Here’s what “Perplexity” gave me about this topic:

Premature Growth Plate Ossification Due to Elevated GH and IGF-1 Levels: Mechanisms

Elevated levels of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) significantly impact skeletal development, often resulting in premature growth plate ossification. This comprehensive analysis explores the mechanisms behind this phenomenon and examines potential preventive strategies for managing conditions characterized by GH excess.

Normal Role of GH and IGF-1 in Bone Development
Growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 play fundamental roles in skeletal growth during puberty and bone health throughout life. GH increases tissue formation by acting both directly and indirectly on target cells, while IGF-1 serves as a critical mediator of bone growth. These hormones represent a major signaling system for bone development and remodeling.

Under normal conditions, GH and IGF-1 maintain a delicate balance that ensures proper longitudinal and transverse bone accrual. IGF-1 is essential for the development of the growing skeleton, influencing both dimensions of bone growth and maintaining bone mass during late adulthood and aging. Studies with IGF-1-deficient mice have demonstrated that these animals exhibit skeletal malformations, delayed mineralization, reduced chondrocyte proliferation, and increased chondrocyte apoptosis, highlighting the crucial role of IGF-1 in normal bone development.

Growth Plate Structure and Function

Growth plates (epiphyseal plates) are specialized cartilaginous structures located at the ends of long bones that are responsible for longitudinal bone growth. They consist of three distinct zones:
1. Resting zone - containing progenitor cells
2. Proliferative zone - where chondrocytes rapidly divide
3. Hypertrophic zone - where chondrocytes enlarge and eventually undergo apoptosis
In the natural growth process, the balance between chondrocyte proliferation and terminal differentiation determines the rate of bone growth. Eventually, growth plates close (ossify) when chondrocyte proliferation ceases and the entire structure is replaced by bone.

Mechanisms of Premature Growth Plate Ossification with Elevated GH/IGF-1

Accelerated Chondrocyte Maturation
Excessive GH and IGF-1 levels accelerate the transition of chondrocytes from the proliferative to the hypertrophic state. This premature maturation disrupts the normal sequence of events in the growth plate, leading to earlier ossification. Research indicates that epigenetic changes in the methylation of genomic DNA may limit chondrocyte replication under certain conditions, though the exact cellular programmed factors related to these theories have yet to be clearly elucidated.

Altered Growth Plate Signaling Pathways

Elevated GH/IGF-1 modifies several signaling pathways critical for growth plate function:
1. Enhanced MAPK signaling - Excess IGF-1 overstimulates the MAPK pathway, accelerating chondrocyte differentiation
2. Disruption of PTHrP/Ihh feedback loop - This crucial regulatory mechanism controls the pace of chondrocyte differentiation
3. Increased production of VEGF - Promoting premature vascularization of the growth plate

Imbalance in Bone Remodeling
Chronic exposure to high GH/IGF-1 levels creates an imbalance in bone remodeling processes. Both GH and IGF-1 administration significantly increase bone resorption and bone formation in most studies. In acromegaly, a condition characterized by excessive GH and IGF-1 production due to pituitary tumors, this imbalance manifests as increased bone mineral density (BMD) but paradoxically higher fracture risk. This suggests that the quality of bone, rather than merely its quantity, is compromised.

Abnormal Matrix Production and Mineralization
Excessive GH stimulation leads to abnormal production of extracellular matrix components within the growth plate. Studies in mouse models of GH excess (bGH) showed progressive intervertebral disc degeneration with hypertrophic ossification in spine joints. Histological analysis revealed notochordal cell loss and chondrocyte-like cell infiltration, resulting in fibrous transformation. Additionally, abnormal bone formation near and inside the annulus fibrosus, end plate calcification and ossification, and disc height reduction were observed.

Age-Dependent Effects
The timing of GH/IGF-1 elevation significantly impacts its effects on bone development. Research with inducible LID mice (in which serum IGF-1 levels are depleted at selected ages) demonstrates that IGF-1’s influence on bone is temporal and compartment-specific. Similarly, the effects of elevated GH/IGF-1 vary depending on when the excess occurs relative to skeletal maturity.

I also asked an AI “Can aromatase inhibitors prevent this thing, so i would get benefits from elevated levels without growth plates ossification” and it told me:

The effect of premature closure of growth zones due to elevated levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 is usually stronger and more pronounced than the effect of delayed closure of growth plates when using aromatase inhibitors.

Why?
• Elevated GH and IGF-1 stimulate accelerated maturation and hypertrophy of chondrocytes in the growth plates, which leads to premature ossification and closure of growth plates, limiting the final growth.
• Aromatase inhibitors slow down the conversion of androgens into estrogens, which are key mediators of growth plates closure, and thus can delay this process, increasing the duration of growth and final growth.
• However, aromatase inhibitors do not eliminate the effect of accelerated chondrocyte maturation caused by an excess of GH/IGF-1, but only slow down the estrogen-dependent part of the closure of growth plates.


So, what do i do? Is it true? Can i somehow prevent it?

Who is perplexity btw?

 

[olkn2890]

Who is perplexity btw?

chatbot like chatgpt, gemini etc.

 

[2chevskuy]

Overall true if you really really overdose. But if you don’t, that’s nothing. Just gh and ai and you’ll grow

 

[olkn2890]

Overall true if you really really overdose. But if you don’t, that’s nothing. Just gh and ai and you’ll grow

so like 7-8 ui + anastrozole and im good? btw do you know any sources where i can read about it?

 

[2chevskuy]

so like 7-8 ui + anastrozole and im good? btw do you know any sources where i can read about it?

7-8 iu? If daily that’s quite a lot i would recommend doing like 3 to 4, maybe 5. Anastrozole is good, I’m buying it in a week.
and read about what?

 

[anzohhh]

surprised no high-iqcels have answered and what the hecks is perplexity.. anyways. I believe otherwise. I personally think supraphysiological igf-1 can actually sort of prolong growth instead of prematurely closing it. There is 4 zones like the AI said, and the one you dont wanna reach is obviously the ossification zone. At the end of growth periods for both sexes, what closes growth plates is essentially increased estrogen and decreased IGF-1 responsiveness within the growth plate. So via ER-a, estrogen is highly osteogenic. It induces senescence of the chondrocytic population, and essentially diminishes their proliferative capacity and enhancing terminal hypertrophy, which predisposes the cartilage to mineralization. What you want is the rate of chondrogenesis exceeding the rate of osteogenesis. To get this, you apply aromatase inhibitors with GH. When chondrogenesis exceeds the rate of osteogenesis, the ossification zone physically gets pushed further away from the other zones, and this is what you want, because if the ossification is so fast that the ossification zone reaches the germative zone (the first layer of the growth plate), further growth is impossible. If what your AI was saying was true, then that would mean people with gigantism/gh-releasing pituitary tumors would be shorter than average. So essentially IGF-1 prolongs the growth independent of genetics actually in a dose-dependent manner, which is why gigantism can happen and why Robert Wadlow, even with NORMAL levels of estradiol continued growing even until his death at 22.

 

[olkn2890]

surprised no high-iqcels have answered and what the hecks is perplexity.. anyways. I believe otherwise. I personally think supraphysiological igf-1 can actually sort of prolong growth instead of prematurely closing it. There is 4 zones like the AI said, and the one you dont wanna reach is obviously the ossification zone. At the end of growth periods for both sexes, what closes growth plates is essentially increased estrogen and decreased IGF-1 responsiveness within the growth plate. So via ER-a, estrogen is highly osteogenic. It induces senescence of the chondrocytic population, and essentially diminishes their proliferative capacity and enhancing terminal hypertrophy, which predisposes the cartilage to mineralization. What you want is the rate of chondrogenesis exceeding the rate of osteogenesis. To get this, you apply aromatase inhibitors with GH. When chondrogenesis exceeds the rate of osteogenesis, the ossification zone physically gets pushed further away from the other zones, and this is what you want, because if the ossification is so fast that the ossification zone reaches the germative zone (the first layer of the growth plate), further growth is impossible. If what your AI was saying was true, then that would mean people with gigantism/gh-releasing pituitary tumors would be shorter than average. So essentially IGF-1 prolongs the growth independent of genetics actually in a dose-dependent manner, which is why gigantism can happen and why Robert Wadlow, even with NORMAL levels of estradiol continued growing even until his death at 22.

Thanks for replying, yeah, i also thought there would be a much bugger discussion. Perplexity is another AI chatbot like chatgpt, gemini, grok et cetera. I‘ll dive into your message and will let you know if i find something controversial

 

[olkn2890]

surprised no high-iqcels have answered and what the hecks is perplexity.. anyways. I believe otherwise. I personally think supraphysiological igf-1 can actually sort of prolong growth instead of prematurely closing it. There is 4 zones like the AI said, and the one you dont wanna reach is obviously the ossification zone. At the end of growth periods for both sexes, what closes growth plates is essentially increased estrogen and decreased IGF-1 responsiveness within the growth plate. So via ER-a, estrogen is highly osteogenic. It induces senescence of the chondrocytic population, and essentially diminishes their proliferative capacity and enhancing terminal hypertrophy, which predisposes the cartilage to mineralization. What you want is the rate of chondrogenesis exceeding the rate of osteogenesis. To get this, you apply aromatase inhibitors with GH. When chondrogenesis exceeds the rate of osteogenesis, the ossification zone physically gets pushed further away from the other zones, and this is what you want, because if the ossification is so fast that the ossification zone reaches the germative zone (the first layer of the growth plate), further growth is impossible. If what your AI was saying was true, then that would mean people with gigantism/gh-releasing pituitary tumors would be shorter than average. So essentially IGF-1 prolongs the growth independent of genetics actually in a dose-dependent manner, which is why gigantism can happen and why Robert Wadlow, even with NORMAL levels of estradiol continued growing even until his death at 22.

Yeah it actually sounds pretty logical. Btw, what do you think about using peptides (like CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, GHRP-2) instead of HGH for geight growth? And do you know anyone who also have experience in this topic? Would appreciate it if you tag someone.

 

[anzohhh]

Yeah it actually sounds pretty logical. Btw, what do you think about using peptides (like CJC-1295, Ipamorelin, GHRP-2) instead of HGH for geight growth? And do you know anyone who also have experience in this topic? Would appreciate it if you tag someone.

Peptides are alright. They're stronger than endogenous spikes but weaker than GH obviously. You can replicate a moderate dose of HGH with peptides, check out more plates more dates article on it. The stack is pretty good.

 

[addalinnerlight]

Replace sugar with honey, same effect

Jfl