Is MSE+FM treatment protocol holy grail as Le Fort III alternative?

[OCDMaxxing]

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/mse-fm-treatment-protocol/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1073874618300094

Anyone have more intel on this?

Seems like wonder solution to get Le Fort III or close results with no invasive surgery.

 

[Guest]

If Varbrah, an oldcel bone-wise, got almost 3mm of upswing in 2 months, imagine how much one can improve their forward growth in a year

 

[Lifemax]

Any info on where to buy and how to use these devices for personal use?

 

[Fat cunt]

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/mse-fm-treatment-protocol/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1073874618300094

Anyone have more intel on this?

Seems like wonder solution to get Le Fort III or close results with no invasive surgery.

where can i get this in a country like the netherlands????

 

[OCDMaxxing]

If Varbrah, an oldcel bone-wise, got almost 3mm of upswing in 2 months, imagine how much one can improve their forward growth in a year

This should be getting way more attention.

 

[Guest]

Any info on where to buy and how to use these devices for personal use?

where can i get this in a country like the netherlands????

You need to contact an orthodontist that uses MSE and tell them that you're gonna use a face mask as well. If they are against it, just get the facemask on internet and do it anyway.

If you can't find any orthodontist with MSE, you can contact Dr. Won Moon through email and ask him which one has it in your area.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

You need to contact an orthodontist that uses MSE and tell them that you're gonna use a face mask as well. If they are against it, just get the facemask on internet and do it anyway.

If you can't find any orthodontist with MSE, you can contact Dr. Won Moon through email and ask him which one has it in your area.

How does one contact Dr. Won Moon? Which email best to write to ?

 

[Chico Chicowski]

can anyone post here images of 2 devices?

 

[Guest]

How does one contact Dr. Won Moon? Which email best to write to ?

He teaches at UCLA, so I guess the best way to contact him would be : wmoon@dentistry.ucla.edu

But you can also contact the MSE manufacturer here : https://www.moonmse.com/contact

 

[BendLowReachHigh]

This shit is legit, I e-mailed Dr Moon and apparently there is a doctors in Spain and Italy that can do this treatment.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

This shit is legit, I e-mailed Dr Moon and apparently there is a doctors in Spain and Italy that can do this treatment.

You will sign up for it? I think it is slowly getting traction, but I'm still surprised how little this method is discussed in looksmaxxing forums and lookism. Everyone is just spewing "Le Fort" memes not realising this could be even better.

 

[BendLowReachHigh]

You will sign up for it? I think it is slowly getting traction, but I'm still surprised how little this method is discussed in looksmaxxing forums and lookism. Everyone is just spewing "Le Fort" memes not realising this could be even better.

Possibly, I am still researching different methods before I make a final decision. The surgeon I spoke to just wants me to get implants but I want to fix my bones.

 

[OCDMaxxing]

Possibly, I am still researching different methods before I make a final decision. The surgeon I spoke to just wants me to get implants but I want to fix my bones.

Implants will give you fake ass gay face. You need a wide mouth and wide face to look good with huge cheekbones and stuff. This is achieved by expanding the underlying bone not just sticking shit on your existing bone. That way you will have narrow mouth and big ass cheeks and jaw and it will look unnatural.

 

[Chico Chicowski]

Implants will give you fake ass gay face. You need a wide mouth and wide face to look good with huge cheekbones and stuff. This is achieved by expanding the underlying bone not just sticking shit on your existing bone. That way you will have narrow mouth and big ass cheeks and jaw and it will look unnatural.

any reported before&after of using this method?

 

[mesr]

osteotomies being objectively better than implants is a huge PSL meme. There are amazing implant results out there and there are bad results.

Osteotomies are actually more reliant on your existing bone structure. Surgeons don’t really have any control over the movements, and they cannot change the underlying shape of the bone. They are not versatile like implants are.

An example is that a genioplasty cannot create a wide or square chin if your underlying chin structure is V shaped.

Not to mention that if you are botched by an osteotomy revisional work is much tougher.




And how are you going to wear a face mask all day and be a functional part of society? I am also doubtful this moves bones in adults

 

[Cretinous]

no pictures no care tbh

ive seen so many fucking retards over the years claiming impressive results from <insert charlatan's device here> and yet theres almost NEVER a before and after, and if there is, the usual camera tricks are deployed. Curious, isnt that?

 

[Guest]

osteotomies being objectively better than implants is a huge PSL meme. There are amazing implant results out there and there are bad results.

Osteotomies are actually more reliant on your existing bone structure. Surgeons don’t really have any control over the movements, and they cannot change the underlying shape of the bone. They are not versatile like implants are.

An example is that a genioplasty cannot create a wide or square chin if your underlying chin structure is V shaped.

Not to mention that if you are botched by an osteotomy revisional work is much tougher.




And how are you going to wear a face mask all day and be a functional part of society? I am also doubtful this moves bones in adults

You can wear it 16hours a day wich is really realistic imo (you work 8 hours you go back home and you put it,sleep with it then you take it off to go back to work).

Personally, I would do this for a few mm of UPSWING which is way better than only forward growth. (makes your face ACTUALLY shorter, your nose change shape no joke, your palate expands and your zygos do too.)

Lefort III is a godlike surgery, I'm not against it at all. BUT it will hardly give you expansion nor upswing. Like I said above, it gives you MAINLY forward growth, which is really good but the upswing is way more important imo.

no pictures no care tbh

ive seen so many fucking retards over the years claiming impressive results from <insert charlatan's device here> and yet theres almost NEVER a before and after, and if there is, the usual camera tricks are deployed. Curious, isnt that?

This is different. A good amount of people started the treatment really recently.

btw, there's even ACTUAL STUDIES of Won Moon stating the forward growth + Zygos expansion + Higher Efficiency in sports (swimming). I've seen them, you can search it up on google, they are easy to find and seem promising.

 

[xom]

there is never proof lol, you would think these people diving down this rabbit hole of device wearing would use their brains and take pics while its all happening? takes 2 seconds, pic 1 spot everyday in the same lighting and take a picture to show progress, its not hard

 

[OCDMaxxing]

btw, there's even ACTUAL STUDIES of Won Moon stating the forward growth + Zygos expansion + Higher Efficiency in sports (swimming). I've seen them, you can search it up on google, they are easy to find and seem promising.

I could not find, can you please cite / link ?

 

[Guest]

I could not find, can you please cite / link ?

zygo expansion : https://progressinorthodontics.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40510-018-0240-2
Respiratory function and sports : https://www.researchgate.net/public...performance_in_a_para-athlete_-_A_case_report
Forward growth and lateral movement : https://escholarship.org/uc/item/54w974nd

 

[looksmax0698]

Is there any canadian orthos doing this

 

[Guest]

So I found more articles that EXPLICITLY describes it as a Le Fort III protraction (@OCDMaxxing ) (@Extra Chromosome ) (@Wincel I know you think about doing some protracting of mandible/maxilla so this might be really interesting for you)

Here it is : sci-hub.tw/10.1186/s40510-015-0083-z

MAIN POINTS​

The remaining simulations all translate the maxilla, but all in a slightly different manner. In Pal-MI-FM [−30°], the maxillary complex translates downward and forward equally, translating the whole mid-facial segment forward. The clinical effect is similar to a Le Fort III advancement. This protocol would benefit for mesocephalic class III patients with mid-facial deficiency and favorable vertical positioning of the maxilla. In facemask therapy involving anterior micro-implants, Ant-MIFM [−30°], the maxillary complex mainly translates downward and forward, with slight downward tipping of the anterior region. This could be useful in mesocephalic class III individuals with a shallow bite. Lastly, Post-MI-FM [−30°], simulating intermaxillary elastics to microimplants, mainly translates the maxilla forward, with very slight upward tipping of the anterior region

ALL the CT Scans come from a 42-year-old male patient (oldcels, there's hope for your maxilla) GO CHECK THEM

First, the model utilized in this study was generated from a CT scan of a 42-year-old male patient.

Here's the table explaining the effect of the Facemask on the maxilla :

Is there any canadian orthos doing this

I know there's some in Toronto and one in Montreal, but you will be better off asking Won Moon on where to get it. There's definitely canadian orthos that use it.

 

[Cretinous]

This is different. A good amount of people started the treatment really recently.

btw, there's even ACTUAL STUDIES of Won Moon stating the forward growth + Zygos expansion + Higher Efficiency in sports (swimming). I've seen them, you can search it up on google, they are easy to find and seem promising.

i dont care. Once again, i will reiterate, that this is not different because other orthodontic devices have had "studies" published about their amazing outcomes, and the reason those devices are not being used as standard of care in the industry is because the practitioners clinical experience never seems to match the wonderful outcomes described in the literature. In plastic surgery, pilot papers for medpor and silicone facial implants claim a lifetime complication rate of about 1%, whereas any experienced surgeon who is being honest will tell you his clinical experience is more like a complication rate of 5-15% especially regarding post op infection.

I should get my biologist PhD friend on here so he can tell you about the published "studies" that NEVER EVEN TOOK PLACE LMFAO. Literally, were totally fabricated. I'm not suggesting thats the case here, but giving you an insight as to how something being published in a journal means.

Its replication that is important, not merely publishing a study. If you want to believe everything that is published well pretty soon you'll also be believing that traditional chinese and indian medicine work and rubbing lard on your head will grow your hair back. and that telepathy is real, people can fly as long as no one is looking at them, IV vitamin c cures cancer and ebola and aids, and so on.

So once again: pics or no care. I can see what facial surgeries are capable of, because surgeons actually provide picture evidence of case studies. So far, I've seen jack fucking shit picture evidence of what this wunder device is capable of.

 

[Guest]

So once again: pics or no care. I can see what facial surgeries are capable of, because surgeons actually provide picture evidence of case studies. So far, I've seen jack fucking shit picture evidence of what this wunder device is capable of.

Here's the pics I have seen so far (they were on Won Moon's FB profile if you want to check), of course there's some kids in there but the adult pics were definitely showing significant differences. Also take into account that the facemask were probalby angled in different ways which would show different results (but they were still there).

 

[Cretinous]

Here's the pics I have seen so far (they were on Won Moon's FB profile if you want to check), of course there's some kids in there but the adult pics were definitely showing significant differences. Also take into account that the facemask were probalby angled in different ways which would show different results (but they were still there).
View attachment 51744View attachment 51745View attachment 51746View attachment 51747View attachment 51748View attachment 51749

that first pic does not inspire confidence, it looks like the maxilla has grown longer, not forward. The mandible growth is impressive but some of these patients, especially the korean woman, need to decrease the overall length and planes of the face and the only way to achieve that is with a CCW rotation through surgery and shorten the maxilla.

 

[Guest]

that first pic does not inspire confidence, it looks like the maxilla has grown longer, not forward.

The maxilla can grow forward and downwards at the same time though

 

[Cretinous]

The maxilla can grow forward and downwards at the same time though

yes i know. And that can be a problem, aesthetically. For others, like the girl in the third picture, she needed a longer maxilla.

 

[Quicksilver]

So I found more articles that EXPLICITLY describes it as a Le Fort III protraction (@OCDMaxxing ) (@Extra Chromosome ) (@Wincel I know you think about doing some protracting of mandible/maxilla so this might be really interesting for you)

Here it is : sci-hub.tw/10.1186/s40510-015-0083-z

MAIN POINTS​

ALL the CT Scans come from a 42-year-old male patient (oldcels, there's hope for your maxilla) GO CHECK THEM


Here's the table explaining the effect of the Facemask on the maxilla :
View attachment 51730


I know there's some in Toronto and one in Montreal, but you will be better off asking Won Moon on where to get it. There's definitely canadian orthos that use it.

Can you tell me who those ortho's are?

I seen Dr. Moon an email for MSE providers in Ontario or Quebec but so far i got no replies.
I would love this.

Also this might be my imagination but it looks like it improved the overbite of several people from the photos. I could definitely use that for my recessed mandible.

 

[Quicksilver]

Nvm, answered my own question.

Dr. Molly Gareh (http://www.thunderbayorthodontics.com/) in Ontario



Dr. Sylvain Chamberland (https://www.sylvainchamberland.com/) in Quebec


Dr Johanne Seguin (https://www.orthodrseguin.com/) in Quebec

For anyone who is interested.

 

[Smokerek271]

This shit is legit, I e-mailed Dr Moon and apparently there is a doctors in Spain and Italy that can do this treatment.

Hi man, could you share what doctor in Italy is doing this? Thanks in advance

 

[Ekeoma_The_BBC]

Nvm, answered my own question.

Dr. Molly Gareh (http://www.thunderbayorthodontics.com/) in Ontario



Dr. Sylvain Chamberland (https://www.sylvainchamberland.com/) in Quebec


Dr Johanne Seguin (https://www.orthodrseguin.com/) in Quebec

For anyone who is interested.

2 doctors doing it in Quebec and not a single one in London, jesus christ

 

[UglyMan]

Guy made a follow up thread saying it’s not the holy grail jfl.

 

[Iamthewalrus01]

Why in all of Canada does this not exist in Toronto

 

[Quicksilver]

Guy made a follow up thread saying it’s not the holy grail jfl.

link?

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

link?

 

[CopingCel]

link?

 

[spark]

If Varbrah, an oldcel bone-wise, got almost 3mm of upswing in 2 months, imagine how much one can improve their forward growth in a year

Has he even posted any pics? I found him on thegreatwork forum but wasn't able to see any evidence.

 

[Deleted member 685]

You can wear it 16hours a day wich is really realistic imo (you work 8 hours you go back home and you put it,sleep with it then you take it off to go back to work).

Personally, I would do this for a few mm of UPSWING which is way better than only forward growth. (makes your face ACTUALLY shorter, your nose change shape no joke, your palate expands and your zygos do too.)

Lefort III is a godlike surgery, I'm not against it at all. BUT it will hardly give you expansion nor upswing. Like I said above, it gives you MAINLY forward growth, which is really good but the upswing is way more important imo.


This is different. A good amount of people started the treatment really recently.

btw, there's even ACTUAL STUDIES of Won Moon stating the forward growth + Zygos expansion + Higher Efficiency in sports (swimming). I've seen them, you can search it up on google, they are easy to find and seem promising.

Proof it'll make your face shorter?

 

[SPFromNY914]

You can wear it 16hours a day wich is really realistic imo (you work 8 hours you go back home and you put it,sleep with it then you take it off to go back to work).

Personally, I would do this for a few mm of UPSWING which is way better than only forward growth. (makes your face ACTUALLY shorter, your nose change shape no joke, your palate expands and your zygos do too.)

Lefort III is a godlike surgery, I'm not against it at all. BUT it will hardly give you expansion nor upswing. Like I said above, it gives you MAINLY forward growth, which is really good but the upswing is way more important imo.


This is different. A good amount of people started the treatment really recently.

btw, there's even ACTUAL STUDIES of Won Moon stating the forward growth + Zygos expansion + Higher Efficiency in sports (swimming). I've seen them, you can search it up on google, they are easy to find and seem promising.

You Can ALWAYS do jaw surgery/Genio/implants after BUT you can't do mse and facemask after plates are in your skill you know what I mean? If you're under 21, you might as well reap the benefits of facemask+Mse then if you're still recessed or ugly do surgery. This is my plan godwilling

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Here's the pics I have seen so far (they were on Won Moon's FB profile if you want to check), of course there's some kids in there but the adult pics were definitely showing significant differences. Also take into account that the facemask were probalby angled in different ways which would show different results (but they were still there).
View attachment 51744View attachment 51745View attachment 51746View attachment 51747View attachment 51748View attachment 51749

Great results on this boy but why his ears are not in the same place. Actually face would be even more forward.