Jaw Surgery: The Risks No One Tells You About

[yolo23]

I agree with the stickied Realitypill thread about the risks of surgical operations.
For those who didn't see it, here is the thread: https://looksmax.org/threads/the-realitypill-easier-said-than-done.1414566/

I just wanted to add my take on it on what I learned about Jaw Surgery:

Jaw surgery is one of the most complex facial surgeries you can get, and there are a lot of things that can go wrong. After spending a lot of time reading through forums, patient stories, and social media posts, I’ve seen a wide range of complications that people experience — some temporary, some permanent.

Here’s what stood out to me:

1. Nerve Damage and Loss of Sensation​

• Permanent numbness in the chin, lower lip, or upper lip.
• Sometimes numbness affects your mouth — gums, upper palate, or inside of the cheeks.
• This isn’t “just numbness.” It can impact daily life:
  • Not feeling food stuck on your lips.
  • Burning your lips when drinking hot drinks.
  • Kissing not feeling the same.
  • Not realizing you still have food or pills in your mouth.
  • Chronic sharp pain in lips/chin.
  • Sensitivity to cold weather.
• Even a genioplasty (chin surgery) alone can cause permanent lower lip/chin numbness.
• The older you are, the less likely nerve sensation will recover — and the more severe the numbness can be.

2. Changes to Nose and Sinuses (Upper Jaw Surgery)​

• Upper jaw (Le Fort) surgery can widen your nose, make it crooked, or change its shape — sometimes requiring rhinoplasty afterward.
• Cuts in the maxilla can lead to chronic sinus infections.

3. Aesthetic Trade-Offs​

• Maxilla impaction can make the philtrum appear longer.
• Sometimes it causes a gummy smile (even though it’s supposed to reduce one).
• It can also reduce tooth show — so you might only see upper teeth when fully smiling, with no lower teeth visible.
• Before/after photos can be misleading — often showing only flattering angles. From the front, the surgery can create:
  • Longer face appearance.
  • Longer philtrum.
  • “Dog/monkey maxxing” (uncanny proportions).
• Teeth photos are also selectively shown — sometimes they still don’t fully close your bite, or lips remain apart.

4. Joint-Related Risks (TMJ/TMD)​

• If you already have issues like Idiopathic Condylar Resorption (ICR) or a steep mandibular angle, you’re at higher risk for relapse or TMJ problems.
• These problems can cause chronic pain, limited mouth opening, difficulty chewing, and speech issues.
• Severe cases may require total joint replacement (TJR) — a 6–7 hour surgery with serious risks and side effects.
• Even braces alone can worsen ICR — so get screened before starting any orthodontic or jaw work.
• More jaw movement or aggressive counter-clockwise (CCW) rotation = higher risk of relapse, nerve damage, and other complications.

5. Recovery, Revisions, and Realistic Expectations​

• Surgery can require 1–2 years in braces, with 1 year often being post-op.
• Infections and revision surgeries are possible.
• You may experience temporary hair loss for months, and in rare cases it can last longer.
• Looksmaxing with jaw surgery is often overstated — most before/after transformations are modest (incel to incel/sub 8 to sub 8) unless the person already had strong features. They also don't tell the story of what were the trade offs with these cases, what kind of nerve damage/health issues they developed as a result of the surgery, or some that relapsed later or had to have additional revisions.
• By the time you complete the process, natural aging might reduce some of the aesthetic gains.
• Functional or breathing issues are usually the best reasons to get surgery — purely aesthetic motivations may not be worth the risks.
• Timing matters — younger patients (around age 20) tend to recover better with fewer complications.

Jaw surgery can be life-changing for function, but it’s also a major gamble with your health/quality of life for aesthetics alone. The risks range from mild to life-altering, and no amount of before/after photos can guarantee your result. If you’re considering it, make sure you fully understand the trade-offs, get properly screened, and have realistic expectations.

 

[Bryce]

Water + GPT

 

[FlourideGoyium]

dnr

 

[aids]

Why do you regurgitate AI-written slop and act like it is yours + you have found some new information people aren’t already aware of? This is a dog shit thread.

 

[Soter]

good thread

 

[yolo23]

Why do you regurgitate AI-written slop and act like it is yours + you have found some new information people aren’t already aware of? This is a dog shit thread.

Does it matter how I format the text? At the end of the day these are undisputable truths

 

[nvrhrgin]

Does it matter how I format the text? At the end of the day these are undisputable truths

It does, at least perception wise, no one want to read ass-long ai slop and there is a causation for:
1. No new info
2. Lack of depth
3. Just general info
4. No private cases, insides, etc.

Because it’s how ai and weights works, it will always generate you most averaged content ever. Where do u think ai took the info to write this slop? Exactly from looksmax and forums like that. Just a slop made of info well-known like a decade ago you asked GPT to write aiming for likes, moron

 

[yolo23]

It does, at least perception wise, no one want to read ass-long ai slop and there is a causation for:
1. No new info
2. Lack of depth
3. Just general info
4. No private cases, insides, etc.

Because it’s how ai and weights works, it will always generate you most averaged content ever. Where do u think ai took the info to write this slop? Exactly from looksmax and forums like that. Just a slop made of info well-known like a decade ago you asked GPT to write aiming for likes, moron

No, wrong. I fed the AI with my text and told it to improve/format it. Nothing wrong with that.

It actually have some new info like the one about ICR and about other things. I don’t think these risks and issues were discussed here much.

 

[nvrhrgin]

No, wrong. I fed the AI with my text and told it to improve/format it. Nothing wrong with that.

It actually have some new info like the one about ICR and about other things. I don’t think these risks and issues were discussed here much.

No there is nothing new, all these shit was already picked long time ago. And I guess if you were writing it not using gpt than it’s even worse. There could be value if some cases, pics and etc attached, now it reminds me an old thread “realitypill….” Something like that but worse as this was framed by ai

 

[yolo23]

No there is nothing new, all these shit was already picked long time ago. And I guess if you were writing it not using gpt than it’s even worse. There could be value if some cases, pics and etc attached, now it reminds me an old thread “realitypill….” Something like that but worse as this was framed by ai

Dude idc. I’m not going to start quoting facebook private jaw surgery/ICR group or reddit jaw surgery sub messages. It’s all there, just choose a topic from my post and do a search there, you will find all the cases/evidence you need.

 

[takethezincpill]

tl;dr

 

[nvrhrgin]

Dude idc. I’m not going to start quoting facebook private jaw surgery/ICR group or reddit jaw surgery sub messages. It’s all there, just choose a topic from my post and do a search there, you will find all the cases/evidence you need.

I could find any info here I need without you post, that’s the point here

 

[mogging2eternity]

dnr if somebody really needs this he will take the risks. high reward low risk

 

[yolo23]

I could find any info here I need without you post, that’s the point here

You can find some of the info, but it’s spread around in different places. The idea was to combine everything together so you have the full picture.

dnr if somebody really needs this he will take the risks. high reward low risk

First, don’t take the risk if you have high relapse chance. That’s just plain stupid. Second, you really need to consider all the trade offs with the surgery. Having permanent numbness can really suck.

 

[mogging2eternity]

You can find some of the info, but it’s spread around in different places. The idea was to combine everything together so you have the full picture.


First, don’t take the risk if you have high relapse chance. That’s just plain stupid. Second, you really need to consider all the trade offs with the surgery. Having permanent numbness can really suck.

and if u drive with a car you can die, if u go outside you can get shot, overthinking fucks up your life, most surgeries go well especially with a good doctor

 

[napyelashes]

You can find some of the info, but it’s spread around in different places. The idea was to combine everything together so you have the full picture.


First, don’t take the risk if you have high relapse chance. That’s just plain stupid. Second, you really need to consider all the trade offs with the surgery. Having permanent numbness can really suck.

You're in a forum full of people willing to pin at the age of 14, no one gives a shit about risks enough to stop them from ascending.

 

[yolo23]

and if u drive with a car you can die, if u go outside you can get shot, overthinking fucks up your life, most surgeries go well especially with a good doctor

That’s a stupid comparison. Going to get invasive surgery willingly and putting yourself under the knife is completely different risk level. Especially that there is high chance for permanent issues post op. You are saying like this surgery is super safe and has no risks. That’s bs. Even with the best doctor you can have issues.

 

[repulse]

ok

 

[nvrhrgin]

You can find some of the info, but it’s spread around in different places. The idea was to combine everything together so you have the full picture.

The Realitypill: easier said than done.

The Realitypill easier said than done. You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or...

looksmax.org

 

[DelonLover1999]

A lot of wrong information here

- A maxillary impaction doesn't increase philtrum length, that doesn't make any sense. An impaction literally reduces the vertical length of the maxillary portion between the ans and upper gums. Even downgrafts, which could in theory make the philtrum longer, don't have this effect in 99% of cases (You can literally go on youtube and look for people who got downgrafts and compare philtrum length). The muscle the controls the lateral corners of the mouth is the zygomaticus major, which attaches at the lefort 3 area, not lefort 1.

- Permanent numbness in the chin or lower lip used to happen in about 20% of people with the old technique, I believe. The 'new' technique has much smaller incisions, and allows for shorter surgery time, which improves pretty much every aspect of post op. And the usage of a Piezzo Blade allows the nerves to be preserved a lot. That combined with the fact that surgeons now can literally see where your nerve is through the ct and try to avoid it when planning where to cut the bone, makes permanent numbness very unlikely.

Most of the numbers you talked abt are either obsolete or exaggerated. If you don't go to an inefficient jew ortho, the expected for braces post op is 6 months, for example.

When it comes to aesthetics:

You must be living under a rock, cause i've seen hundreds of insane ascensions. It's literally a no brainer aesthetically if you have significant recession, as it's the most effective option to address the issue structurally and permanently. If you have severe function problems, of course it's a good idea to get it as well, but the vast majority of young people on .org will not have that even if they have subpar airways, bites, etc. For most people here, it's obviously gonna be an aesthetic driven surgery, and it's very effective at that if you study the movements and your own anatomy to figure out what you need.

Bimax in 2025 has a crazy high satisfaction rate. If you go with a reputable surgeon and you're an actual candidate, it's worth it.

 

[yolo23]

- A maxillary impaction doesn't increase philtrum length, that doesn't make any sense. An impaction literally reduces the vertical length of the maxillary portion between the ans and upper gums. Even downgrafts, which could in theory make the philtrum longer, don't have this effect in 99% of cases (You can literally go on youtube and look for people who got downgrafts and compare philtrum length). The muscle the controls the lateral corners of the mouth is the zygomaticus major, which attaches at the lefort 3 area, not lefort 1.

You’re right that maxillary impaction reduces vertical bone height and the zygomaticus major isn’t directly affected. But soft tissue doesn’t always perfectly adapt — in some cases, especially with larger impactions or less soft tissue elasticity, the philtrum can appear longer. It’s not universal, but it can happen clinically.

Here are some examples:

- Permanent numbness in the chin or lower lip used to happen in about 20% of people with the old technique, I believe. The 'new' technique has much smaller incisions, and allows for shorter surgery time, which improves pretty much every aspect of post op. And the usage of a Piezzo Blade allows the nerves to be preserved a lot. That combined with the fact that surgeons now can literally see where your nerve is through the ct and try to avoid it when planning where to cut the bone, makes permanent numbness very unlikely.

Most of the numbers you talked abt are either obsolete or exaggerated. If you don't go to an inefficient jew ortho, the expected for braces post op is 6 months, for example.

That makes sense about Piezzo and CT planning reducing nerve injury, but I’m curious — which 'old technique' and 'new technique' are you referring to? Are there any studies showing a significant drop in permanent nerve damage with this method? From what I’ve read, even with Piezzo and careful planning, large movements or CCW rotations can still stretch the nerve and cause numbness, so it’s not completely risk-free. Also, you might be confusing this with distraction osteogenesis, which is a completely different procedure and has different risks and mechanics.

Most of the numbers you talked abt are either obsolete or exaggerated. If you don't go to an inefficient jew ortho, the expected for braces post op is 6 months, for example.

Braces timing really depends on your starting point and type of malocclusion — for example, class 2 cases often take longer than 6 months post-op. Individual healing and tooth movement response also play a big role. Sometimes, delays happen because surgeons and orthodontists end up shifting responsibility when results aren’t perfect, but in many cases, 1 year post-op is genuinely needed. A surgery-first approach can shorten braces time, but it carries a higher risk of unstable results or relapse — even with longer braces, there’s no absolute guarantee of a perfect outcome.

When it comes to aesthetics:

You must be living under a rock, cause i've seen hundreds of insane ascensions. It's literally a no brainer aesthetically if you have significant recession, as it's the most effective option to address the issue structurally and permanently. If you have severe function problems, of course it's a good idea to get it as well, but the vast majority of young people on .org will not have that even if they have subpar airways, bites, etc. For most people here, it's obviously gonna be an aesthetic driven surgery, and it's very effective at that if you study the movements and your own anatomy to figure out what you need.

Bimax in 2025 has a crazy high satisfaction rate. If you go with a reputable surgeon and you're an actual candidate, it's worth it.

Most "insane transformations" are cherry-picked — either the person already looked good or had a severe deformity. For the average 3–4/10, surgery might only improve 1–1.5 points, barely changing dating life. And permanent nerve damage? People can lose feeling in lips, chin, or gums, struggle with chewing, tasting, or kissing — basically trading a modest aesthetic gain for a potential semi-disability.

 

[Wexilarious]

You’re right that maxillary impaction reduces vertical bone height and the zygomaticus major isn’t directly affected. But soft tissue doesn’t always perfectly adapt — in some cases, especially with larger impactions or less soft tissue elasticity, the philtrum can appear longer. It’s not universal, but it can happen clinically.

Here are some examples:



View attachment 4044783

View attachment 4044785

View attachment 4044789

View attachment 4044801


That makes sense about Piezzo and CT planning reducing nerve injury, but I’m curious — which 'old technique' and 'new technique' are you referring to? Are there any studies showing a significant drop in permanent nerve damage with this method? From what I’ve read, even with Piezzo and careful planning, large movements or CCW rotations can still stretch the nerve and cause numbness, so it’s not completely risk-free. Also, you might be confusing this with distraction osteogenesis, which is a completely different procedure and has different risks and mechanics.


Braces timing really depends on your starting point and type of malocclusion — for example, class 2 cases often take longer than 6 months post-op. Individual healing and tooth movement response also play a big role. Sometimes, delays happen because surgeons and orthodontists end up shifting responsibility when results aren’t perfect, but in many cases, 1 year post-op is genuinely needed. A surgery-first approach can shorten braces time, but it carries a higher risk of unstable results or relapse — even with longer braces, there’s no absolute guarantee of a perfect outcome.

Most "insane transformations" are cherry-picked — either the person already looked good or had a severe deformity. For the average 3–4/10, surgery might only improve 1–1.5 points, barely changing dating life. And permanent nerve damage? People can lose feeling in lips, chin, or gums, struggle with chewing, tasting, or kissing — basically trading a modest aesthetic gain for a potential semi-disability.

Before such operations wisdom teeth are removed, everyone should know that if you have wisdom teeth you will look worse after this, and if you don't have them then maybe better, I don't know

 

[idnap]

You’re right that maxillary impaction reduces vertical bone height and the zygomaticus major isn’t directly affected. But soft tissue doesn’t always perfectly adapt — in some cases, especially with larger impactions or less soft tissue elasticity, the philtrum can appear longer. It’s not universal, but it can happen clinically.

Here are some examples:



View attachment 4044783

View attachment 4044785

View attachment 4044789

View attachment 4044801


That makes sense about Piezzo and CT planning reducing nerve injury, but I’m curious — which 'old technique' and 'new technique' are you referring to? Are there any studies showing a significant drop in permanent nerve damage with this method? From what I’ve read, even with Piezzo and careful planning, large movements or CCW rotations can still stretch the nerve and cause numbness, so it’s not completely risk-free. Also, you might be confusing this with distraction osteogenesis, which is a completely different procedure and has different risks and mechanics.


Braces timing really depends on your starting point and type of malocclusion — for example, class 2 cases often take longer than 6 months post-op. Individual healing and tooth movement response also play a big role. Sometimes, delays happen because surgeons and orthodontists end up shifting responsibility when results aren’t perfect, but in many cases, 1 year post-op is genuinely needed. A surgery-first approach can shorten braces time, but it carries a higher risk of unstable results or relapse — even with longer braces, there’s no absolute guarantee of a perfect outcome.

Most "insane transformations" are cherry-picked — either the person already looked good or had a severe deformity. For the average 3–4/10, surgery might only improve 1–1.5 points, barely changing dating life. And permanent nerve damage? People can lose feeling in lips, chin, or gums, struggle with chewing, tasting, or kissing — basically trading a modest aesthetic gain for a potential semi-disability.

Well at the end of the day, if someone recessed needs bimax to ascend they're gonna do it regardless.

You're whole thread was horseshit and water and mostly fear mongerring because you didn't provide any solutions.

All you did as a high inhib faggot is just spew a bunch of ChatGPT shit into a bunch of chunks of words to look smart

Maybe if you provided actual helpful information, like how to avoid X Y and Z flaws, like asking surgeons for this and that in the procedure, or questions to ask, or good surgeons to go to, etc. but nah


Horseshit thread

 

[yolo23]

Well at the end of the day, if someone recessed needs bimax to ascend they're gonna do it regardless.

You're whole thread was horseshit and water and mostly fear mongerring because you didn't provide any solutions.

All you did as a high inhib faggot is just spew a bunch of ChatGPT shit into a bunch of chunks of words to look smart

Maybe if you provided actual helpful information, like how to avoid X Y and Z flaws, like asking surgeons for this and that in the procedure, or questions to ask, or good surgeons to go to, etc. but nah


Horseshit thread

I get it — I don’t have all the solutions, and jaw surgery is far from perfect. I wish there was an easier way to safely improve one’s facial flaws. My goal with this thread was to provide some warnings, like the high relapse risk for people with ICR or steep mandibular angles, so at least people can make a more informed decision before going through something risky.

I hope having discussions like this raises awareness and eventually leads to safer methods. Maybe procedures like distraction osteogenesis have some potential, though they’re limited, and hopefully in the future better techniques will emerge.

 

[DelonLover1999]

You’re right that maxillary impaction reduces vertical bone height and the zygomaticus major isn’t directly affected. But soft tissue doesn’t always perfectly adapt — in some cases, especially with larger impactions or less soft tissue elasticity, the philtrum can appear longer. It’s not universal, but it can happen clinically.

Here are some examples:



View attachment 4044783

View attachment 4044785

View attachment 4044789

View attachment 4044801

It can happen but not very common. You need a combo of bad luck, a specific type of lefort movement, very poor skin elasticity and probably subpar surgical execution and or planning. It's no coincidence that most people in those examples are older women who typically have way less healing power.

Also, the appearance of a longer philtrum can come from an upwards rotation of the nose tip. If you measure the distance between alar base and mouth in those pics, it's all basically the same, except in the cases where there was noticeable skin sag.

It's something to consider, but most likely won't happen to any .org users who go with a reputable surgeon.

That makes sense about Piezzo and CT planning reducing nerve injury, but I’m curious — which 'old technique' and 'new technique' are you referring to? Are there any studies showing a significant drop in permanent nerve damage with this method? From what I’ve read, even with Piezzo and careful planning, large movements or CCW rotations can still stretch the nerve and cause numbness, so it’s not completely risk-free. Also, you might be confusing this with distraction osteogenesis, which is a completely different procedure and has different risks and mechanics.


Braces timing really depends on your starting point and type of malocclusion — for example, class 2 cases often take longer than 6 months post-op. Individual healing and tooth movement response also play a big role. Sometimes, delays happen because surgeons and orthodontists end up shifting responsibility when results aren’t perfect, but in many cases, 1 year post-op is genuinely needed. A surgery-first approach can shorten braces time, but it carries a higher risk of unstable results or relapse — even with longer braces, there’s no absolute guarantee of a perfect outcome.

Most "insane transformations" are cherry-picked — either the person already looked good or had a severe deformity. For the average 3–4/10, surgery might only improve 1–1.5 points, barely changing dating life. And permanent nerve damage? People can lose feeling in lips, chin, or gums, struggle with chewing, tasting, or kissing — basically trading a modest aesthetic gain for a potential semi-disability.

The new technique is known as MIOS (minimally invasive orthognathic surgery), and was intially developed by Alfaro and a couple other people independently. It involves a bunch of things, including smaller incisions, less soft tissue movement during the surgery, a different type of planning, a more nuanced post op regimen.

Comparing that to how jaw surgery was done in the 2000s is just crazy. It has evolved a lot.

In the subject of braces, I know two different .orgers who were class 2, and both spent 6 months or less post op. Nowadays the usual timeline in the US among the best providers is 6-8 months, but that's just to be safe. If time is an important variable, and you don't have any insane teeth misalignment (most people), it's 100% possible to find an ortho that will get you ready in 6 months, even 4 sometimes.

About the transformations: Well, it's beyond water that unless the rest of your face is already good, you're not gonna become very good looking from bimax alone. The point is that, for the people with otherwise good proportions and a decent eye area, but who have a lacking lower third, the surgery is a godsend. As with any other procedure, your base is what determines your ceiling. If you come to the surgery with a long ramus, good gonial angle, decent maxilla, but just bad mandible body length and chin, for example, the ascension always has the potential to be massive. Creating anterior facial depth helps in more ways than just side profile. It literally stretches out the entire lower third skin, giving much more angularity, and this is illustrated by a huge number of successful cases.

 

[yolo23]

It can happen but not very common. You need a combo of bad luck, a specific type of lefort movement, very poor skin elasticity and probably subpar surgical execution and or planning. It's no coincidence that most people in those examples are older women who typically have way less healing power.

Also, the appearance of a longer philtrum can come from an upwards rotation of the nose tip. If you measure the distance between alar base and mouth in those pics, it's all basically the same, except in the cases where there was noticeable skin sag.

It's something to consider, but most likely won't happen to any .org users who go with a reputable surgeon.

The new technique is known as MIOS (minimally invasive orthognathic surgery), and was intially developed by Alfaro and a couple other people independently. It involves a bunch of things, including smaller incisions, less soft tissue movement during the surgery, a different type of planning, a more nuanced post op regimen.

Comparing that to how jaw surgery was done in the 2000s is just crazy. It has evolved a lot.

In the subject of braces, I know two different .orgers who were class 2, and both spent 6 months or less post op. Nowadays the usual timeline in the US among the best providers is 6-8 months, but that's just to be safe. If time is an important variable, and you don't have any insane teeth misalignment (most people), it's 100% possible to find an ortho that will get you ready in 6 months, even 4 sometimes.

About the transformations: Well, it's beyond water that unless the rest of your face is already good, you're not gonna become very good looking from bimax alone. The point is that, for the people with otherwise good proportions and a decent eye area, but who have a lacking lower third, the surgery is a godsend. As with any other procedure, your base is what determines your ceiling. If you come to the surgery with a long ramus, good gonial angle, decent maxilla, but just bad mandible body length and chin, for example, the ascension always has the potential to be massive. Creating anterior facial depth helps in more ways than just side profile. It literally stretches out the entire lower third skin, giving much more angularity, and this is illustrated by a huge number of successful cases.

MIOS may reduce incisions and recovery time, but the bone movements are still the same — nerve damage is still a real risk, especially with large movements or CCW rotations. Not all surgeons use MIOS; it takes special training and tech. Even Alfaro’s own before/after cases show many patients with that “dog/monkey” max look. It’s an advancement, but not a guarantee of perfect aesthetics, function, or sensation.

 

[DelonLover1999]

MIOS may reduce incisions and recovery time, but the bone movements are still the same — nerve damage is still a real risk, especially with large movements or CCW rotations. Not all surgeons use MIOS; it takes special training and tech. Even Alfaro’s own before/after cases show many patients with that “dog/monkey” max look. It’s an advancement, but not a guarantee of perfect aesthetics, function, or sensation.

It is a risk, but less than it used to be, and less than you're making it to be. I would strongly advise people to look for surgeons who use MIOS or some other equally modern variant, though.

I'm not saying Alfaro has the best aesthetic sensibility for the movements (he tends to be hit or miss), but that's why it's so important to do your own research and understand cephalometric analysis.

No surgery or medical procedure has any guarantee of perfect anything. It's not even a natural science, it's a hybrid. That being said, in the current state of jaw surgery, it's definitely worth it for some people.