D
Deleted member 23558
God make my neurotransmitters great inc
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Something I have always suspected to be the case, since Greco Roman athletes used to eat bull testicles and other organs containing bioavaliable steroids - it must have been commonplace to detect a deleterious effect on the athletes' health after ceasing consumption( I have read a few books from Medical historians such as Galen but no such case report..) but since the doses present in testicles arent massively supraphysiological and also balanced by anti aromatase agents such as progesterone , this never happened. It also struck me as odd that people used to say shutdown would happy at any dose big small or miniscule which just intuitively doesnt make sense. Now I have my confirmation:
"Bodybuilders usually take unphysiological doses of DHT or its synthetic derivatives designed for oral use. A common dose I have seen discussed on so many forum is 25mg-50mg of say Proviron daily. Even 25mg dose of Proviron will suppress BOTH the synthesis of E and T, and we don't want that. A 5mg dose on the other hand (of any DHT-type steroid) usually lowers E to healthier levels, which allows T to rise even more both of which have a rather positive effect on libido and systemic health. Taking pure T, which is also often done in unphysiological doses, suppresses HPGA much more easily than DHT-type steroids due to its conversion into estrogen. It is estrogen that is the true negative feedback driver on HPGA. That is why AI raise T levels - i.e. by removing the negative feedback on HPGA. DHT is much less suppressive of HPGA compared to T but in higher doses it inhibits 17b-HSD3, which is responsible for T synthesis. In lower doses it is still a potent aromatase inhibitor, an androgen agonist (duh), inhibitor of TPH (serotonin synthesis), and cortisol antagonist (albeit weaker than T) without affecting T synthesis much. Most studies show aromatase inhibition by DHT (and other 5-AR steroids like androsterone) in the low nanomolar up to 1uM concentration range, which is achievable with doses in the 1mg-5mg range. Of course, bodybuilders are usually after that cut-and-dry look and health concerns usually come in second. So, they do not like the whole low-dosing regimen. But if health is the primary concern and if DHT-type steroids are used sensibly and in physiological doses, they can provide quite a bit of benefit while possibly even raising endogenous T. Thus, no need to run cycles with massive doses of T only to get suppressed and then do all kinds of dangerous stuff like hCG (known carcinogen when used in higher doses), clomid (highly estrogenic in the brain, has killed some patients with MS) or tamoxifen (estrogenic/carcinogenic in the prostate), etc."
Another possible mechanism of shutdown is through leydig cells saturation but this also requires massive doses. Its not like this is going to help anyone on this forum, everyone is too pussy to do anything except rot - but just wanted to put it out there..
"Bodybuilders usually take unphysiological doses of DHT or its synthetic derivatives designed for oral use. A common dose I have seen discussed on so many forum is 25mg-50mg of say Proviron daily. Even 25mg dose of Proviron will suppress BOTH the synthesis of E and T, and we don't want that. A 5mg dose on the other hand (of any DHT-type steroid) usually lowers E to healthier levels, which allows T to rise even more both of which have a rather positive effect on libido and systemic health. Taking pure T, which is also often done in unphysiological doses, suppresses HPGA much more easily than DHT-type steroids due to its conversion into estrogen. It is estrogen that is the true negative feedback driver on HPGA. That is why AI raise T levels - i.e. by removing the negative feedback on HPGA. DHT is much less suppressive of HPGA compared to T but in higher doses it inhibits 17b-HSD3, which is responsible for T synthesis. In lower doses it is still a potent aromatase inhibitor, an androgen agonist (duh), inhibitor of TPH (serotonin synthesis), and cortisol antagonist (albeit weaker than T) without affecting T synthesis much. Most studies show aromatase inhibition by DHT (and other 5-AR steroids like androsterone) in the low nanomolar up to 1uM concentration range, which is achievable with doses in the 1mg-5mg range. Of course, bodybuilders are usually after that cut-and-dry look and health concerns usually come in second. So, they do not like the whole low-dosing regimen. But if health is the primary concern and if DHT-type steroids are used sensibly and in physiological doses, they can provide quite a bit of benefit while possibly even raising endogenous T. Thus, no need to run cycles with massive doses of T only to get suppressed and then do all kinds of dangerous stuff like hCG (known carcinogen when used in higher doses), clomid (highly estrogenic in the brain, has killed some patients with MS) or tamoxifen (estrogenic/carcinogenic in the prostate), etc."
Another possible mechanism of shutdown is through leydig cells saturation but this also requires massive doses. Its not like this is going to help anyone on this forum, everyone is too pussy to do anything except rot - but just wanted to put it out there..
