Modified MSE For Facebow

[Deleted member 4053]

Since orthos, maxfacs, and ortho labs are all closed, I can't get any further in my attempt at getting MSE. If I can get it covered by insurance, I am planning on using it with Sandra Kahn's facebow, and in all likelihood get MSDO afterwards.

This is what Ronald Ead had Dr. Nawaz develop for him, this would work for the facebow, right? :

I'm going to make few emails, Dr. moon hasn't responded to one I sent him last week, I'll probably just schedule a consultation and pull up to UCLA to talk to him about it in person.

 

[reptiles]

Since orthos, maxfacs, and ortho labs are all closed, I can't get any further in my attempt at getting MSE. If I can get it covered by insurance, I am planning on using it with Sandra Kahn's facebow, and in all likelihood get MSDO afterwards.

This is what Ronald Ead had Dr. Nawaz develop for him, this would work for the facebow, right? :

View attachment 332800


I'm going to make few emails, Dr. moon hasn't responded to one I sent him last week, I'll probably just schedule a consultation and pull up to UCLA to talk to him about it in person.

So this is face puller added with mse ????????????

 

[Deleted member 4053]

So this is face puller added with mse ????????????

yes

 

[Lorsss]

Since orthos, maxfacs, and ortho labs are all closed, I can't get any further in my attempt at getting MSE. If I can get it covered by insurance, I am planning on using it with Sandra Kahn's facebow, and in all likelihood get MSDO afterwards.

This is what Ronald Ead had Dr. Nawaz develop for him, this would work for the facebow, right? :

View attachment 332800


I'm going to make few emails, Dr. moon hasn't responded to one I sent him last week, I'll probably just schedule a consultation and pull up to UCLA to talk to him about it in person.

This will be as effective as a Lefort 3, but you need to wear that 15 hours a day for 2 years to get results

 

[spark]

This will be as effective as a Lefort 3, but you need to wear that 15 hours a day for 2 years to get results

2 years? How did yo reach that ridiculously high number?

 

[Lorsss]

2 years? How did yo reach that ridiculously high number?

in the only clinical study comcerning maxillary protraction in adults, the patient gained 1.5 millimiters of maxilla forward growth in 17 months

 

[Deleted member 4053]

in the only clinical study comcerning maxillary protraction in adults, the patient gained 1.5 millimiters of maxilla forward growth in 17 months

Link? Also I'm still in puberty so I could probably get better results faster. The hardest part is being taken seriously at my age - I do this shit on my own and always get patronized when talking to a professional.

 

[spark]

in the only clinical study comcerning maxillary protraction in adults, the patient gained 1.5 millimiters of maxilla forward growth in 17 months

1.5 mm after using FM for 17 months? Wow that is a very slow progress. Was the FM hooked up to MSE or not?

 

[Lorsss]

1.5 mm after using FM for 17 months? Wow that is a very slow progress. Was the FM hooked up to MSE or not?

it was a standard facemask
I wrote about it on www.incels.wiki/w/Facepulling

 

[spark]

it was a standard facemask
I wrote about it on www.incels.wiki/w/Facepulling

So it's possible a BOW facemask hooked up to an MSE appliance could produce superior results.

 

[Deleted member 3962]

it was a standard facemask
I wrote about it on www.incels.wiki/w/Facepulling

so basically u trade 1.5 years of ur life for 1.5mm of forwards growth

so basically u trade 1.5 years of ur life for 1.5mm of forwards growth

or since she used 0.5kg if u use 2kg it would be 6mm in 1.5 years 12 hours a day

 

[wannabenormie]

it was a standard facemask
I wrote about it on www.incels.wiki/w/Facepulling

Wasn't the study performed without MSE?

 

[Elias]

First of all, i dont like that its anchored to the molarbands tbh, as the molar bands are additionally added after the mse appliance is made by your ortho. It could cause more teeth displacement, so i think it would be better if something was attached to the screws of the mse appliance instead

Second 2 years is a good time to get 4-5mm of forward growth with this

If youre wearing it 16 hours a day, think about that. 8 hours sleep, 8 hours during the day. You still have 8 hours where you can go outside and socialize, thats more than enough if youre in school or go to work, so dont complain.

 

[Deleted member 3202]

it was a standard facemask
I wrote about it on www.incels.wiki/w/Facepulling

I've heard of some type of facemask giving you 6mms within a year.

 

[Elias]

I've heard of some type of facemask giving you 6mms within a year.

Impossible
Even the facebow (best you can get rn) and mse anchored for a year you wont get 6mm

Keep living in a dream land

 

[Xander578]

so basically u trade 1.5 years of ur life for 1.5mm of forwards growth

No the entire treatement lasted 17 months, she agreed to 4 months of maxillary protraction the rest is retention.
" The patient agreed to four months of protraction (during the summer while out of school) for 18–20 hours per day "
"She was retained with a maxillary Hawley and fixed mandibular canine to canine retainer. Treatment was completed in 17 months and proved to be stable following the active treatment "
at least this is what i understood

 

[Deleted member 3202]

Impossible
Even the facebow (best you can get rn) and mse anchored for a year you wont get 6mm

Keep living in a dream land

I'm not "living in a dream land" no need for such hostilities, I'm only stating from what I've heard before in the past.

How much can you gain with MSE then?

 

[Elias]

I'm not "living in a dream land" no need for such hostilities, I'm only stating from what I've heard before in the past.

How much can you gain with MSE then?

You cant, those people you heard from were clueless and making stuff up

Its all based on theory right now, because we have no recorded cases with people who have used mse and fm for over a year.

Being realistic, we can in theory hope to gain 4mm in a year, but this highly depends on how much time you wear it, the force, the hunger inside of you to change and where its anchored on the appliance.

If you wear it for 16-20 hours a day for a year anchored to the screws, in theory you could gain 4mm of pure forward and upward bone growth

 

[spark]

You cant, those people you heard from were clueless and making stuff up

Its all based on theory right now, because we have no recorded cases with people who have used mse and fm for over a year.

Being realistic, we can in theory hope to gain 4mm in a year, but this highly depends on how much time you wear it, the force, the hunger inside of you to change and where its anchored on the appliance.

If you wear it for 16-20 hours a day for a year anchored to the screws, in theory you could gain 4mm of pure forward and upward bone growth

How recessed people usually are? Is 4 mm a lot?

 

[Elias]

How recessed people usually are? Is 4 mm a lot?

Mm’s are miles on the face
4mm is a lot, but some people can be recessed up to 10-15mm, but those are extreme cases

The average maxilla will be recessed by about 4-6mm

 

[Deleted member 4053]

I've heard of some type of facemask giving you 6mms within a year.

Where??????
If that were true it would already be on this forum

 

[Lorsss]

I've heard of some type of facemask giving you 6mms within a year.

6 mms on children.
the one I mentioned is the only experiment involving facemask on an adult

 

[Deleted member 3202]

Mm’s are miles on the face
4mm is a lot, but some people can be recessed up to 10-15mm, but those are extreme cases

The average maxilla will be recessed by about 4-6mm

I'm recessed by 2mms, assuming it works, I could facepull for about a year and be finished with some extra gains.

 

[Deleted member 4053]

@Sergio-OMS @retard @GetThatBread I've all talked with you guys about MSE or FP or both any thoughts?

 

[LebenistneHure]

A few questions, would this work on a 23 yo? Could forward growth translate into a shorter midface from up front? Someone mentioned an upswing? Would that reduce real or maybe percieved midface/nose length? Would you recommend doing this before or after palate expansion?

 

[GetThatBread]

@Sergio-OMS @retard @GetThatBread I've all talked with you guys about MSE or FP or both any thoughts?

That’s the route I’m taking also; Dr. Newaz is my MSE consultant/provider (same doc as Ron’s) before the gay pride shut down we were gonna discuss a modified version to add the FaceBow in there while expanding. He said it will cost more obviously cuz I’m getting it custom made. You can expect 1mm maybe even 2mms of forward growth from MSE alone and combine it with Sandra Ks FaceBow you can expect 4-6mms + the 1-2mm so theoretically 8mms of forward growth and you could supplement along the way with K2, MK4, GH. Now I don’t know the time it will take to get that but I’m hoping in about 4-8 months of usage and 12 hours of time daily

 

[Deleted member 4053]

That’s the route I’m taking also; Dr. Newaz is my MSE consultant/provider (same doc as Ron’s) before the gay pride shut down we were gonna discuss a modified version to add the FaceBow in there while expanding. He said it will cost more obviously cuz I’m getting it custom made. You can expect 1mm maybe even 2mms of forward growth from MSE alone and combine it with Sandra Ks FaceBow you can expect 4-6mms + the 1-2mm so theoretically 8mms of forward growth and you could supplement along the way with K2, MK4, GH. Now I don’t know the time it will take to get that but I’m hoping in about 4-8 months of usage and 12 hours of time daily

Will you need MSDO/SFOT afterwards? Also what's the price range if you don't mind me asking? If I don't convince them to get these procedures covered by insurance I could end up waiting another ten years, maybe even after college, to get it done.

 

[Deleted member 3202]

Mm’s are miles on the face
4mm is a lot, but some people can be recessed up to 10-15mm, but those are extreme cases

The average maxilla will be recessed by about 4-6mm

6 mms on children.
the one I mentioned is the only experiment involving facemask on an adult

One thing I've been trying to figure out is whether MSE increases your temple width or not.

 

[Deleted member 4053]

One thing I've been trying to figure out is whether MSE increases your temple width or not.

Here is Ronald Ead's video explaining how MSE works. I don't think it does as the part of the skull that makes up the temple is split form the zygos and maxilla:

 

[Deleted member 3202]

Here is Ronald Ead's video explaining how MSE works. I don't think it does as the part of the skull that makes up the temple is split form the zygos and maxilla:
View attachment 334727

Well that's unfortunate.

 

[patricknotstar]

in the only clinical study comcerning maxillary protraction in adults, the patient gained 1.5 millimiters of maxilla forward growth in 17 months

Is 1.5mm even aesthetically detectable