morality is objective

[theRetard]

title

 

[theRetard]

@Dorogi thoughts?

 

[DBDR]

Incorrect.

 

[theRetard]

@PrinceLuenLeoncur

 

[theRetard]

Incorrect.

why?

 

[Dorogi]

can you explain a bit?

 

[theRetard]

can you explain a bit?

because we are coming to contradiction if we say that it is subjective. it's self-refuting

 

[DBDR]

why?

Gay marriage was illegal but now it's legal in certain countries. Commercial weed was illegal but now it's not in certain parts of the world. In certain countries it's justified to cut off your hands for stealing. Life is a subjective experience for humans and so, therefore, morality is also subjective. If there is no objective morality then God (the symbol of objective judgement) can not exist either.

 

[alurmo]

title

Incorrect

 

[Dorogi]

because we are coming to contradiction if we say that it is subjective. it's self-refuting

I still dont get it bhai im slow. Ig morality is partially culture and partially just the natural human moral compass

 

[theRetard]

Incorrect

why?

 

[Klasik616]

You're wrong. Only knowledge is either objective or subjective. Morality is always social. There's no such thing as morality for just one person, you as an individual can't determine a morality for others.
All modern philosophers preffer to use the term "intersubjective" which is more explanatory.

 

[jaaba]

title

Strongly believing in objective morality is such a midwit trait

 

[theRetard]

Gay marriage was illegal but now it's legal in certain countries. Commercial weed was illegal but now it's not in certain parts of the world. In certain countries it's justified to cut off your hands for stealing. Life is a subjective experience for humans and so, therefore, morality is also subjective. If there is no objective morality then God (the symbol of objective judgement) can not exist either.

well i quite agree with your takes on gay marriages and others but we are not talking about jurisdiction laws, but about morality.
>Life is a subjective experience for humans and so, therefore, morality is also subjective
even if we accept that life is a subjective experionce for humans, then how it determines the subjectivity of morality?
>if therse' no objective morality then god can not exist either
why god can't exist without objective morality? god and morality might be independent things

 

[CreamyMissionary]

50/50

 

[theRetard]

You're wrong. Only knowledge is either objective or subjective. Morality is always social. There's no such thing as morality for just one person.
All modern philosophers preffer to use the term "intersubjective" which is still the wrong word but they call it that way.

even if morality is only social (of which statement I don't agree) then it doesn't make it subjective. It ontologically exists independently from your mind them because it is in the society, not only in your mind

I still dont get it bhai im slow. Ig morality is partially culture and partially just the natural human moral compass

if morality is subjective, then this statement itself is also subjective

 

[theRetard]

Strongly believing in objective morality is such a midwit trait

why?

 

[jaaba]

why?

Smart enough to follow orders well but not smart enough to question them

 

[theRetard]

Smart enough to follow orders well but not smart enough to question them

to question what exactly?

 

[yussimania]

sharia law

 

[DBDR]

well i quite agree with your takes on gay marriages and others but we are not talking about jurisdiction laws, but about morality.
>Life is a subjective experience for humans and so, therefore, morality is also subjective
even if we accept that life is a subjective experionce for humans, then how it determines the subjectivity of morality?
>if therse' no objective morality then god can not exist either
why god can't exist without objective morality? god and morality might be independent things

When I say "God" I mean a form of moral authority. What you're referring to may be a superhuman deity (which is speculative at best and out of the scope of this conversation).

Laws are an example of what the State deems permissible. If it's permissible then it means it's seen as moral by the State. The fact that laws change is indicative of my argument.

A common philosophical scenario is to imagine a time when lying may be moral. So, imagine a man chased by another man with a chainsaw. When the man escapes past you and the chainsaw man catches up and asks you where he went, do you tell the truth or lie?

If lying is always immoral then would you lie in this instance?

 

[Dorogi]

even if morality is only social (of which statement I don't agree) then it doesn't make it subjective. It ontologically exists independently from your mind them because it is in the society, not only in your mind

if morality is subjective, then this statement itself is also subjective

Bhai i dont know im such an incel that im just to far removed from soceity to know much about morality to me theres the wired in type thats just an NT behaviour thats essentially just selfish and supposed to keep you in the group and alive. The 2nd type is the one made by bigger civilisations (after agriculturap revolution) where rules are important to keep things from falling into anarchy. Neither are really about "morality" in its purest form if thats what ur saying since its to achieve a goal ig

 

[theRetard]

View attachment 4228907

When I say "God" I mean a form of moral authority. What you're referring to may be a superhuman deity (which is speculative at best and out of the scope of this conversation).

Laws are an example of what the State deems permissible. If it's permissible then it means it's seen as moral by the State. The fact that laws change is indicative of my argument.

no it is contradictory. if we counter the state a moral authority then if a state makes a law that acting morally will be punished then amorality is highly moral lol. but it is retarded.

A common philosophical scenario is to imagine a time when lying may be moral. So, imagine a man chased by another man with a chainsaw. When the man escapes past you and the chainsaw man catches up and asks you where he went, do you tell the truth or lie?

well but where i said that lying is immoral?

If lying is always immoral then would you lie in this instance?

lying is not always immoral, i've never said that

 

[theRetard]

Bhai i dont know im such an incel that im just to far removed from soceity to know much about morality to me theres the wired in type thats just an NT behaviour thats essentially just selfish and supposed to keep you in the group and alive. The 2nd type is the one made by bigger civilisations (after agriculturap revolution) where rules are important to keep things from falling into anarchy. Neither are really about "morality" in its purest form if thats what ur saying since its to achieve a goal ig

are you into philosophy?

 

[Dorogi]

are you into philosophy?

Nah not really but i get a lot of time to think about things since i ldar all day

 

[DBDR]

no it is contradictory. if we counter the state a moral authority then if a state makes a law that acting morally will be punished then amorality is highly moral lol. but it is retarded.

The State is the de facto authority figure on morality because they have the power to send you to jail (if you're caught breaking a law).

lying is not always immoral, i've never said that

Ok, so it's subjective. Morality is a social construct thought of by a bunch of conscious animals. And the idea of a God is also imaginary.

 

[theRetard]

The State is the de facto authority figure on morality because they have the power to send you to jail (if you're caught breaking a law).

the state is the de facto authority figure on laws, laws=/=morals. complete different things. and what if the state writes in the law that the state acts immorally? you haven't answered it yet

Ok, so it's subjective. Morality is a social construct thought of by a bunch of conscious animals. And the idea of a God is also imaginary.

even if it is a social construct it doesn't mean it is subjective

 

[JordanFagget271]

title

hard no

 

[theRetard]

hard no

why?

 

[theRetard]

Nah not really but i get a lot of time to think about things since i ldar all day

do you like anime?

 

[ikramy]

Religion should be the only objective moral source other than that it’s subjective

 

[JordanFagget271]

why?

there was an experiment with kids that suggested that we only do things based on how it will turn out for us in the end, it was something with a doll i cant remember the whole experiment but im pretty sure you can easily find it if u want, and also like killing people wasnt a taboo before, and in some cultures was even a way to express ur manliness, cannibals for example its pretty clear that its a subjective thing influenced by current social norms that may change tomorrow or may not

 

[theRetard]

Religion should be the only objective moral source other than that it’s subjective

why god can't be independent from objective morals?

 

[theRetard]

there was an experiment with kids that suggested that we only do things based on how it will turn out for us in the end,

it just means morals is utilitarian for kids. It doesn't mean that it is subjective, it leads you to utilitarianism instead

it was something with a doll i cant remember the whole experiment but im pretty sure you can easily find it if u want, and also like killing people wasnt a taboo before, and in some cultures was even a way to express ur manliness, cannibals for example its pretty clear that its a subjective thing influenced by current social norms that may change tomorrow or may not

it could possibly mean that morality is relative but it is also not subjective.
(although i don't agree with moral relativism)

 

[ikramy]

why god can't be independent from objective morals?

Morality isn’t independent of God because God’s nature and knowledge define truth itself.

 

[CorinthianLOX]

Morality is nuanced, not objective or subjective. Morality is derived from the group/tribe/culture you are in/from.

 

[JordanFagget271]

it just means morals is utilitarian for kids. It doesn't mean that it is subjective, it leads you to utilitarianism instead

it could possibly mean that morality is relative but it is also not subjective.
(although i don't agree with moral relativism)

i mean with high enough iq u dont want people to kill each other in ur community so you can evolve but thats again based on what u get out of it so its pretty much still subjective, only objective thing with morality is that you do what you think you should so that you have it the best

 

[mrdouchebag]

There is no objective morality. We just happen to live in societies and we are forced to follow certain rules and laws, because we will be heavily penalized if we don't. Of course people are free to go become antisocial outlaws if they want, but the costs outweigh the benefits in that case.

 

[JordanFagget271]

it just means morals is utilitarian for kids. It doesn't mean that it is subjective, it leads you to utilitarianism instead

it could possibly mean that morality is relative but it is also not subjective.
(although i don't agree with moral relativism)

i could also debate if free will exists with almost the same arguments btw

 

[theRetard]

Morality isn’t independent of God because God’s nature and knowledge define truth itself.

but truth it not the same as morality.
also these are humans define truth itself, there's few definitions of the truth (like corresponded truth, coherent truth, conventional truth and the pragmatic truth). All 4 definitions were written by humans

 

[CorinthianLOX]

There is no objective morality. We just happen to live in societies and we are forced to follow certain rules and laws, because we will be heavily penalized if we don't. Of course people are free to go become antisocial outlaws if they want, but the costs outweigh the benefits in that case.

Exactly

 

[ikramy]

but truth it not the same as morality.
also these are humans define truth itself, there's few definitions of the truth (like corresponded truth, coherent truth, conventional truth and the pragmatic truth). All 4 definitions were written by humans

I meant the truth comes from god the true objective morality comes from him, and for the truth argument that’s a stupid one so gravity didn’t exist before Newton? Just because humans “ discovered” it and defined it dosen’t mean they made it

 

[theRetard]

There is no objective morality. We just happen to live in societies and we are forced to follow certain rules and laws, because we will be heavily penalized if we don't. Of course people are free to go become antisocial outlaws if they want, but the costs outweigh the benefits in that case.

Exactly

even if it was made by society it doesn't mean it is subjective, it's other way around actually

 

[CorinthianLOX]

even if it was made by society it doesn't mean it is subjective, it's other way around actually

It’s neither objective or subjective. In one culture morally ’good’ things could be seen as immoral in another.

 

[theRetard]

I meant the truth comes from god the true objective morality comes from him, and for the truth argument that’s a stupid one so gravity didn’t exist before Newton? Just because humans “ discovered” it and defined it dosen’t mean they made it

yeah it is a thomist point

 

[ikramy]

yeah it is a thomist point

I didn’t know someone said ts before me lowkey I could’ve became a philosopher back then and just say random things like that and make niggas debate about it

 

[theRetard]

It’s neither objective or subjective. In one culture morally ’good’ things could be seen as immoral in another.

so if in a society is it morally good to act immoral. it is contradictory so it is not the truth. morals is not dependent on the society

 

[CorinthianLOX]

so if in a society is it morally good to act immoral. it is contradictory so it is not the truth. morals is not dependent on the society

For example in western society, monogamy is regarded as normative and therefore moral where as polygamy is seen as immoral and non normative. In middle eastern cultures polygamy is seen as normal. Circumcision is seen as not only moral but as a moral duty in jewish culture where as in some european cultures it’s regarded as immoral. There are dozens of examples like this. Morality usually arises from duty and responsibility to the group.

 

[sub5mumbaifinalboss]

theres no such thing called morality in nature

 

[theRetard]

theres no such thing called morality in nature

why?