More forward growth = longer midface

[optimisticzoomer]

It's kind of an obvious concept, but if you look at this drawing, with exaggerated forward growth, and compare the midface length (green and white lines) between the red and blue

Meaning when you're looking down, the midface in the more forward grown face is longer:

A decent midface ratio when looking straight ahead could look shit when someone views you like this from the front

So for low midface ratio cels, large bimax movements could be a bad thing?
@thecel

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Bumo. This is THE most important thread right now

 

[Eblan]

Ok and?

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Ok and?

For a midface ratio cel, increasing the distance between the eyes and the upper lip is not a good thing

 

[Deleted member 66828]

For a midface ratio cel, increasing the distance between the eyes and the upper lip is not a good thing

any hope for long midface cels other than lefort1/2?

 

[greycel]

It's kind of an obvious concept, but if you look at this drawing, with exaggerated forward growth, and compare the midface length (green and white lines) between the red and blue
View attachment 2934499

Meaning when you're looking down, the midface in the more forward grown face is longer:
View attachment 2934503

A decent midface ratio when looking straight ahead could look shit when someone views you like this from the front

So for low midface ratio cels, large bimax movements could be a bad thing?
@thecel

Idk
Firstly, a lf1 will not cause forward growth of that paranasal area to that much of an extent.. if I’m not mistaken
And also it won’t increase the length of your nose.
Also that is not the midface.
You want to measure from out from the nose bridge where it starts, from the top to bottom of nose/top of philtrum (depends if nose is droopy).

 

[optimisticzoomer]

any hope for long midface cels other than lefort1/2?

No. If it's long middle third, can try offsetting it by increasing lower third height. If it's a low midface ratio because of close set eyes (like myself), in theory OBO. Also, to reduce actual midface length, i suppose u could do an obo to move orbits down and thus reduce distance from eyes to mouth, but let's be real here, no one is getting that

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Idk
Firstly, a lf1 will not cause forward growth of that paranasal area to that much of an extent.. if I’m not mistaken
And also it won’t increase the length of your nose.
Also that is not the midface.
You want to measure from out from the nose bridge where it starts, to the top of bottom of nose/top of philtrum (depends if nose is droopy).

Midface ratio is distance between eyes/distance from eyes to upper lip. If your upper lip moves forward, the distance between that and the eyes will be increased in absolute terms. It may not look like it from straight ahead, but it will when viewed from a higher angle, and your face isn't only seen from directly ahead

 

[Deleted member 66828]

No. If it's long middle third, can try offsetting it by increasing lower third height. If it's a low midface ratio because of close set eyes (like myself), in theory OBO. Also, to reduce actual midface length, i suppose u could do an obo to move orbits down and thus reduce distance from eyes to mouth, but let's be real here, no one is getting that

yeah thought so too, i think u could fraud with hollow cheeks and better pronounciaton of the cheekbones?

 

[Deleted member 66828]

Midface ratio is distance between eyes/distance from eyes to upper lip. If your upper lip moves forward, the distance between that and the eyes will be increased in absolute terms. It may not look like it from straight ahead, but it will when viewed from a higher angle, and your face isn't only seen from directly ahead

btw from where is upper third measured?

 

[optimisticzoomer]

yeah thought so too, i think u could fraud with hollow cheeks and better pronounciaton of the cheekbones?

Maybe to an extent
But long middle third isn't even that bad, u can vertical genioplasty or lefort downgraft to increase lower third height

 

[Allornothing]

Midface is measured height-wise though.

 

[optimisticzoomer]

btw from where is upper third measured?

From hairline to middle of eyebrows kinda

 

[Deleted member 66828]

Maybe to an extent
But long middle third isn't even that bad, u can vertical genioplasty or lefort downgraft to increase lower third height

true, or just chin and jaw fillers

 

[Deleted member 66828]

From hairline to middle of eyebrows kinda

im cooked

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Midface is measured height-wise though.

Yes, but your face isn't constantly viewed at one angle. A horse when viewed from below the nose will have a short looking face, but they have a long face

Yellow lines are perceived midface height

 

[Deleted member 32803]

It's kind of an obvious concept, but if you look at this drawing, with exaggerated forward growth, and compare the midface length (green and white lines) between the red and blue
View attachment 2934499

Meaning when you're looking down, the midface in the more forward grown face is longer:
View attachment 2934503

A decent midface ratio when looking straight ahead could look shit when someone views you like this from the front

So for low midface ratio cels, large bimax movements could be a bad thing?
@thecel

not true, midface ratio is highly made by eye spacing, just take a look at Barrett, he is dog tier forward grown w an extremely compact midface

 

[optimisticzoomer]

not true, midface ratio is highly made by eye spacing, just take a look at Barrett, he is dog tier forward grown w an extremely compact midface

That's not what I said at all.
He isn't firstly, he just has a compact face
Secondly, it's common sense that the further forward your lower maxilla, the further your upper lip from your eye as an absolute measurement. This is mainly addressed to people who already have a low midface ratio, whether due to actual midface or ipd. Increasing the distance between lip and eyes with bimax will worsen that ratio

 

[SubhumanityForce]

For a midface ratio cel, increasing the distance between the eyes and the upper lip is not a good thing

i think you have zero understanding of how that works. there are so many variations in one's skull assembly. if you compare person A to person B, person A might be more forward grown linearly , literally in a straight line like a dog (Mbappe). midface ratio measures the VERTICAL height, from the level of your pupil center till your upper lip. in 2D. so what you drew there makes absolutely no sense, nor lefort advancements work that way. depends on your occlusion at the moment, wether you have CCW or CW, etc. most advances are almost straight line linear, so NOTHING changes on your midface ratio (which can be seen from a 2d, PHOTO)

 

[optimisticzoomer]

i think you have zero understanding of how that works. there are so many variations in one's skull assembly. if you compare person A to person B, person A might be more forward grown linearly , literally in a straight line like a dog (Mbappe). midface ratio measures the VERTICAL height, from the level of your pupil center till your upper lip. in 2D. so what you drew there makes absolutely no sense, nor lefort advancements work that way. depends on your occlusion at the moment, wether you have CCW or CW, etc. most advances are almost straight line linear, so NOTHING changes on your midface ratio (which can be seen from a 2d, PHOTO)

Vertical height changes due to angle. The vertical height of the two in the first pic is the same; when looking down, the vertical height is increased in the more forward maxilla (yellow lines) when others view you from ahead (purple)

It seems you don't have a clue, don't try and project that onto me

It doesn't matter whether you have rotation. It's not an actual rotation where distance between lip and eye stays the same, and it swings like on a pivot. Rotation just means either a) impaction (zero effect on shortening external midface), b) downgraft at the back, again not shortening midface

It's a simple concept that protruding the maxilla forward will lengthen the distance between eyes and upper lip, and thus increase midface ratio at certain angles

 

[SubhumanityForce]

View attachment 2937507View attachment 2937508
Vertical height changes due to angle. The vertical height of the two in the first pic is the same; when looking down, the vertical height is increased in the more forward maxilla (yellow lines) when others view you from ahead (purple)

It seems you don't have a clue, don't try and project that onto me

It doesn't matter whether you have rotation. It's not an actual rotation where distance between lip and eye stays the same, and it swings like on a pivot. Rotation just means either a) impaction (zero effect on shortening external midface), b) downgraft at the back, again not shortening midface

It's a simple concept that protruding the maxilla forward will lengthen the distance between eyes and upper lip, and thus increase midface ratio at certain angles

No it won't. You still don't get it. Midface ratio is just the 2d vertical distance from eyes to mouth. What you are describing is the hypotenueuse of a right angle triangle. And of course it matters what kind of advancement there is. When talking about angles, what exactly are you referring to? When someone's head is tilted down but looks straight to the camera for instance? It doesn't matter. There are such photos of Opry and he looks like closer to a horse in that angle. So? Looking straight, he still has an exceptionally compact midface. From the side, his forward growth is massive compared to an Asian, yet from the front, he has a similar midface ratio with them. Also, your drawing shows a fucking abused do, Like Mbappe, no advancement needed will give you anything to worry about, especially a 5mm average advancement. It would be an issue (possibly, and at very specific angles that no one cares about), if you advance the maxilla 2cm + (something that you won't do, and most probably don't need, so you don't need to worry about that. Also, for the angles you worry, you have to take into account the nasion projection. If someone has a recessed nasion but good maxillary growth, it means their dorsal line is in a more obtuse angle with the vertical distance. Someone else might have an acute angle but the same maxillary projection (ear to mouth distance) with the guy above,, which means that their nasion is Tom Cruise tier projected, and from the side, they might have something like a Greek nose.

 

[optimisticzoomer]

No it won't. You still don't get it. Midface ratio is just the 2d vertical distance from eyes to mouth. What you are describing is the hypotenueuse of a right angle triangle. And of course it matters what kind of advancement there is. When talking about angles, what exactly are you referring to? When someone's head is tilted down but looks straight to the camera for instance? It doesn't matter. There are such photos of Opry and he looks like closer to a horse in that angle. So? Looking straight, he still has an exceptionally compact midface. From the side, his forward growth is massive compared to an Asian, yet from the front, he has a similar midface ratio with them. Also, your drawing shows a fucking abused do, Like Mbappe, no advancement needed will give you anything to worry about, especially a 5mm average advancement. It would be an issue (possibly, and at very specific angles that no one cares about), if you advance the maxilla 2cm + (something that you won't do, and most probably don't need, so you don't need to worry about that. Also, for the angles you worry, you have to take into account the nasion projection. If someone has a recessed nasion but good maxillary growth, it means their dorsal line is in a more obtuse angle with the vertical distance. Someone else might have an acute angle but the same maxillary projection (ear to mouth distance) with the guy above,, which means that their nasion is Tom Cruise tier projected, and from the side, they might have something like a Greek nose.

I'm not reading past the first two lines. You are a simpleton. I know more about ratios than u do about your own mother.

What do you not understand that the vertical distance (not absolute measurement) is entirely dependent on the angle the face is viewed at?

 

[Deleted member 67581]

my maxilla is insane

 

[Lookologist003]

So for low midface ratio cels, large bimax movements could be a bad thing?

I don't think you could make a movement significant enough. Perspective from the front is the most important. The key for aestetics is not have a mid face that decends too great regardless of maxillary projection i think. I think maxillary projection can be ignored altogether.

This thread explains why midface ratio should be calculated from only frontal photos.

 

[Deleted member 71172]

It's quite the opposite

 

[lestoa]

no one here has good forward growth anyways so it doesnt matter

 

[optimisticzoomer]

It's quite the opposite

It really isn't
We're not referring to muh downward growth here
It's about now bimax would lengthen it in actual distance (which would only have an effect when looking down), as bimax can't actually shorten the midface from the front when it moves the lower maxilla forward

 

[Deleted member 71172]

It really isn't
We're not referring to muh downward growth here
It's about now bimax would lengthen it in actual distance (which would only have an effect when looking down), as bimax can't actually shorten the midface from the front when it moves the lower maxilla forward

Ok cool but all of this just to fuck some holes

 

[thecel]

Yellow lines are perceived midface height

nope

 

[optimisticzoomer]

nope

Yes lol
Midface (for mfr) is judged as the visual height between eyes and upper lip, which changes based on angle viewed at

 

[thecel]

Yes lol
Midface (for mfr) is judged as the visual height between eyes and upper lip, which changes based on angle viewed at

but people don’t look down most of the time

 

[Boxingfan]

Does he have a forward maxilla?

 

[flippasav]

What a bad take lmao

 

[Boxingfan]

Does he have a forward maxilla?

View attachment 3157401

He looks recessed with dick sucking lips

 

[Acne Victim]

It's kind of an obvious concept, but if you look at this drawing, with exaggerated forward growth, and compare the midface length (green and white lines) between the red and blue
View attachment 2934499

Meaning when you're looking down, the midface in the more forward grown face is longer:
View attachment 2934503

A decent midface ratio when looking straight ahead could look shit when someone views you like this from the front

So for low midface ratio cels, large bimax movements could be a bad thing?
@thecel

This is wrong on so many levels lmao

First, the absolute length of the midface didn't change, so that alone already invalidates your claim. Just the hypotenuse of the triangle (which another user has pointed out already) from the eyes to mouth on the side changed.

Also, the perception of the midface length in people who are forward-grown from an angle where one is looking down is different than from someone who has a flat maxilla, since the spectator is close to the face when the lower maxilla protrudes (at least what I theorize as being the case). Otherwise every asian would look like they have compact midfaces when looking down which is complete nonsense

Then there is the fact that more forward growth doesn't mean having a properly developed lower maxilla when your entire face is recessed lol. It means everything is forward-grown. If you were a dog, it could be the case though lol.