MSE and Face Mask

[Elias]

MSE: https://www.greatlakesdentaltech.com/mse-maxillary-skeletal-expander.html

Cost: $83 - £64

MSE Type 2 starter kit:
(They do one for 8,10,12mm)

MSE Type-2 Starter Kit - 8mm

Developed by Dr. Won Moon, the MSE is a version of the Microimplant Assisted Rapid Palatal Expander (MARPE). The MSE is capable of producing dramatic maxillary skeletal expansion. The MSE uses 4 TADs for fixation to the palate and a wrench for activ

www.greatlakesdentaltech.com

Cost: $550 - £425

Facemask:

5 types:

1:

2:

3:

4:

5:

I think the most ideal one is 1, with 3 and 5 being good front runners, as 2 and 4 would put pressure on the chin potentially recessing the mandible.

Average cost of facemask - $40 - £25


Now, that weve ordered all this stuff, we would need an orthodontist to apply it.
MSE, is a 90 day, 90 turns treatment.

Some questions if anyone can answer as im not sure.

1: Would you need a maxillofacial surgeon on top of an orthodontist to apply MSE on your palate?

2: If you purchase the starter kit for 12mm to say, would you need to buy it again if you were to do to mse for a second time?

3: Can you turn MSE yourself, or does an ortho have to do it?

4. Does anyone know where you can buy msdo?

5: After MSE has finished, could you get DNA from your ortho and connect the same facemask to it, as DNA slowly expands, you could connect that with the facemask over a 1-2 year period for more forward and upward maxillary gains?

 

[Luke LLL]

Yes you turn the MSE yourself.

 

[Elias]

Yes you turn the MSE yourself.

WHich would be the best facemask as showed above with mse

 

[Luke LLL]

4 is the best because of angle adjustability. I have 2 and it sucks.

 

[Elias]

4 is the best because of angle adjustability. I have 2 and it sucks.

BUt people on here say those put pressure on the mandible and recess it

Do you plan on getting mse?

 

[Luke LLL]

BUt people on here say those put pressure on the mandible and recess it

Do you plan on getting mse?

I don’t know yet. Don’t need expansion that bad we’ll see. It is very useful to anchor the maxilla for pulling though.

 

[Elias]

I don’t know yet. Don’t need expansion that bad we’ll see. It is very useful to anchor the maxilla for pulling though.

Do you need forward growth more than expansion?

 

[Luke LLL]

Do you need forward growth more than expansion?

Yes, also imo those won’t recess the mandible.

 

[Elias]

Thoughts? @retard @facemaxxed @facepuller @john2 @Kingkellz

 

[retard]

Thoughts? @retard @facemaxxed @facepuller @john2 @Kingkellz

4 is probably best but if I had the cash to buy mse I would certainly just buy the bow for 250 and not worry about my jaw being recessed

 

[Deleted member 4887]

What would you get if you don’t need expansion but only forward growth?

Do you need forward growth more than expansion?

 

[Elias]

4 is probably best but if I had the cash to buy mse I would certainly just buy the bow for 250 and not worry about my jaw being recessed

MSE is not expensive?

It costs £500 to buy it then get ortho to install

Is the facebow better? Can it be used with MSE? Will orthos allow it?

What would you get if you don’t need expansion but only forward growth?

Forward growth through appliances is pretty much impossible tbh

Fagga and agga just displace teeth not the maxilla

Facemask takes years and can just give you monkey face

MSE can split the suture giving you 1-2mm forward growth

But the only real way to bring the whole maxilla forward is Lefort 2, double jaw/bimax only bring the lower maxilla forward

So if you want forward growth, lefort 2 + bsso and genio then mew to stablise and prevent relapse

 

[Elias]

90 turns = 12mms

but not everyone will need 12mms

Ronald ead got 11.5mm even after expansion with agga and didnt have an excessivly narrow palate

If you are over 40mm IMW you wont need 12, anything below you will

 

[retard]

MSE is not expensive?

It costs £500 to buy it then get ortho to install

Is the facebow better? Can it be used with MSE? Will orthos allow it?

Forward growth through appliances is pretty much impossible tbh

Fagga and agga just displace teeth not the maxilla

Facemask takes years and can just give you monkey face

MSE can split the suture giving you 1-2mm forward growth

But the only real way to bring the whole maxilla forward is Lefort 2, double jaw/bimax only bring the lower maxilla forward

So if you want forward growth, lefort 2 + bsso and genio then mew to stablise and prevent relapse

Really? I’ve been seeing everyone talking about MSE being like 20k wow, I’m sure it can be used it’s the exact same as 4 just without touching the chin, any ortho enlightened enough to do MSE would certainly be fine with it

 

[Elias]

Really? I’ve been seeing everyone talking about MSE being like 20k wow, I’m sure it can be used it’s the exact same as 4 just without touching the chin, any ortho enlightened enough to do MSE would certainly be fine with it

I think thats jew orthos overpricing it

Realistically if you buy it yourself and an ortho puts it in should cost £1-2k total

 

[facepuller]

I think doing this yourself is dangerous because you can mess up your bite. Also, I would go with a maxillofacial surgeon over an orthodontist to get the MSE implanted. There are many technical pitfalls when implanting an MSE, so a surgeon experienced with MSE would be even better. See the article below by Dr. Won Moon

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5398849/
"
The selected expander should be the one with the greatest expansion capacity that, at the same time, may be kept at an ideal vertical distance from the palatal mucosa. Bicortical anchorage (oral and nasal) is determinant of success and if the expander is too distant from the mucosa (more than 2 mm), microimplants may not reach the nasal corticalbone. Moreover, chances of MI deformation are higher if the force is applied too far from the implant/bone interface (Fig 5). The body of the expander should be placed as posterior as possible, close to the junction of hard and soft palate (hard palate mucosa is whiter). The greatest resistance against suture opening is located in the sutures between maxilla and pterygoid plates (Fig 6), and forces should be applied more posteriorly to overcome initial resistance and promote parallel opening of the midpalatal suture (Fig 7). When forces are applied directly into the center of resistance of the maxilla by means of MI, and not to teeth (as in conventional expansion), the force system is more favorable due to a homogeneous force dissipation, 26 which prevents buccal tipping and produces a more parallel suture opening (Fig 8).27
"

My understanding is that you want the implant to penetrate the bone all the way to the nasal cavity, to increase chances that the suture will expand. Also, if it works and your palate expands, you will need braces to fix your bite and close the gap between your fron teeth.


Also, I would get this headgear because it has no reciprocal force on the mandibule. I forgot what it's called though.

 

[Deleted member 4053]

Really? I’ve been seeing everyone talking about MSE being like 20k wow, I’m sure it can be used it’s the exact same as 4 just without touching the chin, any ortho enlightened enough to do MSE would certainly be fine with it

But isn't it ideal to have the maxilla being pulled at an angle? Honestly I don't think anyone has a definitive answer tbh

 

[retard]

But isn't it ideal to have the maxilla being pulled at an angle? Honestly I don't think anyone has a definitive answer tbh

the facepuller i was talking about lets you pull it at an angle, and it is because you want to rotate it CCW because it simulates how your maxilla would be if it grew correctly

I think doing this yourself is dangerous because you can mess up your bite. Also, I would go with a maxillofacial surgeon over an orthodontist to get the MSE implanted. There are many technical pitfalls when implanting an MSE, so a surgeon experienced with MSE would be even better. See the article below by Dr. Won Moon

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5398849/
"
The selected expander should be the one with the greatest expansion capacity that, at the same time, may be kept at an ideal vertical distance from the palatal mucosa. Bicortical anchorage (oral and nasal) is determinant of success and if the expander is too distant from the mucosa (more than 2 mm), microimplants may not reach the nasal corticalbone. Moreover, chances of MI deformation are higher if the force is applied too far from the implant/bone interface (Fig 5). The body of the expander should be placed as posterior as possible, close to the junction of hard and soft palate (hard palate mucosa is whiter). The greatest resistance against suture opening is located in the sutures between maxilla and pterygoid plates (Fig 6), and forces should be applied more posteriorly to overcome initial resistance and promote parallel opening of the midpalatal suture (Fig 7). When forces are applied directly into the center of resistance of the maxilla by means of MI, and not to teeth (as in conventional expansion), the force system is more favorable due to a homogeneous force dissipation, 26 which prevents buccal tipping and produces a more parallel suture opening (Fig 8).27
"

My understanding is that you want the implant to penetrate the bone all the way to the nasal cavity, to increase chances that the suture will expand. Also, if it works and your palate expands, you will need braces to fix your bite and close the gap between your fron teeth.


Also, I would get this headgear because it has no reciprocal force on the mandibule. I forgot what it's called though.
View attachment 279474

if you get the implant that far back it would impede CCW rotation and upwards growth significantly, kinda a double edged sword

 

[Deleted member 4053]

the facepuller i was talking about lets you pull it at an angle, and it is because you want to rotate it CCW because it simulates how your maxilla would be if it grew correctly

if you get the implant that far back it would impede CCW rotation and upwards growth significantly, kinda a double edged sword

I wasn't clear sorry I was talking about the bow not pulling at an angle which isn't ideal. 4 seems good but a recessed mandible seems like a real concern with how its built

yeah mse is around $3000 but orthos usually bundle it with Invisalign making it around $6000-7000

They have yet to tell me about MSE and my invisalign treatment is almost done. My Hail Mary is going to appealing to try to get it to fix my deviated septum.

 

[Deleted member 4053]

nigger invisalign is for after mse to correct the gaps between teeth

Yeah I'd just continue invisalign afterwards

 

[Deleted member 685]

Neither of the facemasks are ideal cause they set the mandible downwards and backwards. Facebows are better but they're stupid expensive

 

[Deleted member 685]

How is that dht gel working 4 u? 8x6 yet

It takes months. Noticing better and harder erections though and calmer focus ngl

How is that dht gel working 4 u? 8x6 yet

I might buy peptides too to speed up the proces tho since that's way better and effective

 

[Deleted member 685]

Are you doing anything else alongside the gel like hanging exercises or penis pumps?

Gonna try out clamping soon and might buy a penis pump ngl. My thoughts on the dickpill has never been the same after seeing BBC porn.

My hairline seems to be getting higher though so I've gotta watch out

 

[Deleted member 685]

@Gudru how will you cycle dht gel + hgh peptides?

At the same time or separately?

Pretty sure you can do it at the same time but not sure

 

[Deleted member 685]

Fucking lifefuel if true, hgh increasing soft tissue cells while dht increasing androgen receptor sensitivity and to top it off the hangers futher adding atleast couple cms to length and the pump adding to the girth

FUARKKKKKK we will ascend bro. 7x5.5 is my goal


Also angion method for making the capillaries bigger and having stronger erections

Only thing I"m afraid of is my midface getting longer and my nose getting bigger tbh

 

[Cope]

Forward growth through appliances is pretty much impossible tbh

Fagga and agga just displace teeth not the maxilla

Facemask takes years and can just give you monkey face

MSE can split the suture giving you 1-2mm forward growth

But the only real way to bring the whole maxilla forward is Lefort 2, double jaw/bimax only bring the lower maxilla forward

So if you want forward growth, lefort 2 + bsso and genio then mew to stablise and prevent relapse

Ye they're all cope (aside from MSE), but couldn't facebow also work?

 

[Elias]

Ye they're all cope (aside from MSE), but couldn't facebow also work?

Face bow with MSE should work

 

[AscendingHero]

Pretty sure you can do it at the same time but not sure

this is Gudru

 

[noprogressno]

1 and 5 are probably not reverse pull though