muscle insertions thread (genetics)

[Constantin Denis]

Shoulder to waist ratio and legs to torso ratio matter more, but insertions are crucial for aesthetics too. Don't worry tho, if your shoulders are wide and waist is small, you will look amazing despite shit insertions. Now let's get to them.

Having a square chest:

Having a square chest with no gaps between the pecs and good symmetry will make you look like a greek god
You can still look like a god even with a slight gap, considering your chest is still square: for example jeff seid with a very slight gap in the lower chest.
But look at this absolute spartan:

The difference between average and god tier chest insertions:

Biceps insertions:

Check how many fingers can you fit between the biceps and the end of your arm while flexing. The lower the space the better. For example David Laid can fit about 2, as his bicep gap looks just like mine, that categorizes as good biceps genetics, same thing with Jeff Seid, and his arms look huge.
Keep in mind Arnold had quite a huge gap, yet his arms were insane. But for aesthetics, you want your arms to look fuller.

Types of bicep peaks:

Triceps/ Shoulder insertions:
You want a low tricep insertion, otherwise, a high insertion might connect too much behind your rear delt which will give you this look:

No clear separation between tricep and shoulder as you can see
Now some examples of good separation between them:

As for the shoulders same thing, you want them to stand out from the rest of the arm muscles, to create a round look and make them pop out.



Different shapes:

Lats insertions: Low vs high

In my opinion, high lats insertions look more aesthetic, because they make the waist look smaller. Could be a factor in aesthtics.

Core insertions (abs/obliques/adonis belt):
For abs, as long as you have no gaps, they will look good, but symmetrical would be ideal. Also, crucial to have a small waist and small hips. Number of abs also matter, majority of population has 4/6 packs but 8 packs are extremely rare.
Variations:

Upper obliques and adonis belt: Are they visible or not ?

Quads:
They just make your legs stand out from your body.

Calves:
High insertions look good, low insertions look like shit
Low:

High:

All olympic runners have high insertions. You can't run fast with low insertions.

Difference in size between muscles/proportions:

Other of my threads about frame and proportios:

The head to height ratio pill

An average person is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head). An ideal figure, used when aiming for an impression of NOBILITY AND GRACE, is drawn at 8 heads tall. You want to have at a ratio of at least 8 heads. The bigger the ratio the more heroic one looks. That's why...

looksmax.org

 

[dwohh]

big black cock tutorital

 

[randomuser2407]

None of that stuff matters, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder trying to surpass Chris Bumstead.

Also, David Laid is on high amounts of steroids just like Jeff Seid, so he isn't a good example, he doesn't have perfect insertions or good genetics, he is just enhanced. There are many guys who are enhanced who look way better than him, he isn't very impressive for what he takes.

Women don't care about the shape of your muscles, they care about the size of your muscles and the visibility of your abs, and what your strength can do for them (pick them up, dominate them, protect them and so on).

If you want realistic goals of what you can achieve as a natural lifter, don't compare yourself to enhanced guys, and in fact, don't compare yourself to anyone else, because your genetics will give you different results.

But no matter what your genetics are, the vast majority of men, no matter how skinny they are at the start, can acquire a very impressive physique without drugs that women would find extremely attractive.

 

[Lihito]

Shoulder to waist ratio and legs to torso ratio matter more, but insertions are crucial for aesthetics too. Don't worry tho, if your shoulders are wide and waist is small, you will look amazing despite shit insertions. Now let's get to them.

Having a square chest:
View attachment 1580829View attachment 1580831
View attachment 1580849

Having a square chest with no gaps between the pecs and good symmetry will make you look like a greek god
You can still look like a god even with a slight gap, considering your chest is still square: for example jeff seid with a very slight gap in the lower chest.
But look at this absolute spartan:
View attachment 1580846View attachment 1580847
The difference between average and god tier chest insertions:
View attachment 1580851

Biceps insertions:
View attachment 1580856View attachment 1580867
Check how many fingers can you fit between the biceps and the end of your arm while flexing. The lower the space the better. For example David Laid can fit about 2, as his bicep gap looks just like mine, that categorizes as good biceps genetics, same thing with Jeff Seid, and his arms look huge.
Keep in mind Arnold had quite a huge gap, yet his arms were insane. But for aesthetics, you want your arms to look fuller.

Types of bicep peaks:
View attachment 1580869

Triceps / Shoulder insertions:
You want a low tricep insertion, otherwise, a high insertion might connect too much behind your rear delt which will give you this look:
View attachment 1580933
No clear separation between tricep and shoulder as you can see
Now some examples of good separation between them:
View attachment 1580944View attachment 1580945
As for the shoulders same thing, you want them to stand out from the rest of the arm muscles, to create a round look and make them pop out.



Different shapes:
View attachment 1580924

Lats insertions: Low vs high
View attachment 1580890
In my opinion, high lats insertions look more aesthetic, because they make the waist look smaller. Could be a factor in aesthtics.

Core insertions (abs/obliques/adonis belt):
For abs, as long as you have no gaps, they will look good, but symmetrical would be ideal. Also, crucial to have a small waist and small hips. Number of abs also matter, majority of population has 4/6 packs but 8 packs are extremely rare.
Variations:
View attachment 1580953
Upper obliques and adonis belt: Are they visible or not ?
View attachment 1580965View attachment 1580966

Quads:
They just make your legs stand out from your body.
View attachment 1580972
View attachment 1580973
View attachment 1580974

Calves:
High insertions look good, low insertions look like shit
Low:
View attachment 1580985
High:
View attachment 1580986
All olympic runners have high insertions. You can't run fast with low insertions.

Difference in size between muscles/proportions:
View attachment 1580994

Bro i need a Frame and height of David laid ASAP i Will die without pussy

 

[Lihito]

None of that stuff matters, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder trying to surpass Chris Bumstead.

Also, David Laid is on high amounts of steroids just like Jeff Seid, so he isn't a good example, he doesn't have perfect insertions or good genetics, he is just enhanced. There are many guys who are enhanced who look way better than him, he isn't very impressive for what he takes.

Women don't care about the shape of your muscles, they care about the size of your muscles and the visibility of your abs, and what your strength can do for them (pick them up, dominate them, protect them and so on).

If you want realistic goals of what you can achieve as a natural lifter, don't compare yourself to enhanced guys, and in fact, don't compare yourself to anyone else, because your genetics will give you different results.

But no matter what your genetics are, the vast majority of men, no matter how skinny they are at the start, can acquire a very impressive physique without drugs that women would find extremely attractive.

C O P E

 

[randomuser2407]

C O P E

This is you:

 

[ItsOverCel]

I have a square chest but its lagging over

 

[Constantin Denis]

f you want realistic goals of what you can achieve as a natural lifter, don't compare yourself to enhanced guys, and in fact, don't compare yourself to anyone else, because your genetics will give you different results.

I made this thread with the purpose of knowledge on aesthetics and what you can expect to look like if you have these genetics

 

[alriodai]

None of that stuff matters, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder trying to surpass Chris Bumstead.

Also, David Laid is on high amounts of steroids just like Jeff Seid, so he isn't a good example, he doesn't have perfect insertions or good genetics, he is just enhanced. There are many guys who are enhanced who look way better than him, he isn't very impressive for what he takes.

Women don't care about the shape of your muscles, they care about the size of your muscles and the visibility of your abs, and what your strength can do for them (pick them up, dominate them, protect them and so on).

If you want realistic goals of what you can achieve as a natural lifter, don't compare yourself to enhanced guys, and in fact, don't compare yourself to anyone else, because your genetics will give you different results.

But no matter what your genetics are, the vast majority of men, no matter how skinny they are at the start, can acquire a very impressive physique without drugs that women would find extremely attractive.

this
i wish i had u as my personal trainer irl

 

[Constantin Denis]

None of that stuff matters, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder trying to surpass Chris Bumstead.

Chris Bumstead doesn't even look good. He just looks like another mass monster.

 

[casadebanho]

Shoulder to waist ratio and legs to torso ratio matter more, but insertions are crucial for aesthetics too. Don't worry tho, if your shoulders are wide and waist is small, you will look amazing despite shit insertions. Now let's get to them.

Having a square chest:
View attachment 1580829View attachment 1580831
View attachment 1580849

Having a square chest with no gaps between the pecs and good symmetry will make you look like a greek god
You can still look like a god even with a slight gap, considering your chest is still square: for example jeff seid with a very slight gap in the lower chest.
But look at this absolute spartan:
View attachment 1580846View attachment 1580847
The difference between average and god tier chest insertions:
View attachment 1580851

Biceps insertions:
View attachment 1580856View attachment 1580867
Check how many fingers can you fit between the biceps and the end of your arm while flexing. The lower the space the better. For example David Laid can fit about 2, as his bicep gap looks just like mine, that categorizes as good biceps genetics, same thing with Jeff Seid, and his arms look huge.
Keep in mind Arnold had quite a huge gap, yet his arms were insane. But for aesthetics, you want your arms to look fuller.

Types of bicep peaks:
View attachment 1580869

Triceps/ Shoulder insertions:
You want a low tricep insertion, otherwise, a high insertion might connect too much behind your rear delt which will give you this look:
View attachment 1580933
No clear separation between tricep and shoulder as you can see
Now some examples of good separation between them:
View attachment 1580944View attachment 1580945
As for the shoulders same thing, you want them to stand out from the rest of the arm muscles, to create a round look and make them pop out.



Different shapes:
View attachment 1580924

Lats insertions: Low vs high
View attachment 1580890
In my opinion, high lats insertions look more aesthetic, because they make the waist look smaller. Could be a factor in aesthtics.

Core insertions (abs/obliques/adonis belt):
For abs, as long as you have no gaps, they will look good, but symmetrical would be ideal. Also, crucial to have a small waist and small hips. Number of abs also matter, majority of population has 4/6 packs but 8 packs are extremely rare.
Variations:
View attachment 1580953
Upper obliques and adonis belt: Are they visible or not ?
View attachment 1580965View attachment 1580966

Quads:
They just make your legs stand out from your body.
View attachment 1580972
View attachment 1580973
View attachment 1580974

Calves:
High insertions look good, low insertions look like shit
Low:
View attachment 1580985
High:
View attachment 1580986
All olympic runners have high insertions. You can't run fast with low insertions.

Difference in size between muscles/proportions:
View attachment 1580994
Other of my threads about frame and proportios:

The head to height ratio pill

An average person is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head). An ideal figure, used when aiming for an impression of NOBILITY AND GRACE, is drawn at 8 heads tall. You want to have at a ratio of at least 8 heads. The bigger the ratio the more heroic one looks. That's why...

looksmax.org

Yeah

My chest insertions aren’t that good but I have 1,9 shoulder to waist ratio which is nice

 

[Constantin Denis]

Also, David Laid is on high amounts of steroids just like Jeff Seid

he doesn't have perfect insertions or good genetics

He's literally the most aesthetic guy on earth and you're saying he doesn't have good insertions/genetics..

 

[randomuser2407]

View attachment 1581019
He's literally the most aesthetic guy on earth and you're saying he doesn't have good insertions/genetics..

Aesthetics don't mean good genetics.

Zyzz didn't have good genetics and he still looked great.

This is because anabolic steroids allow you to achieve a better physique than what you could do naturally, so they aren't just a shortcut, they are much more than that.

 

[Constantin Denis]

Aesthetics don't mean good genetics.

Zyzz didn't have good genetics and he still looked great.

This is because anabolic steroids allow you to achieve a better physique than what you could do naturally, so they aren't just a shortcut, they are much more than that.

then tell me, what do good insertions/genetcis mean if zyzz/david laid "don't have them" ?

 

[randomuser2407]

Chris Bumstead doesn't even look good. He just looks like another mass monster.

He doesn't compete in Mr Olympia, he competes in Men's Physique, so it's not on the level of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Also, I'm not saying he has the ideal look but he is a good example of someone who really has good genetics.

What you don't understand is that the vast majority of people who take steroids will never look like Chris Bumstead, even if they took more drugs, because Chris Bumstead has really good genetics and a good genetic response to the drugs.

Meanwhile, guys like David Laid don't have top tier genetics, they have ectomorph hardgainer genetics but the drugs allow them to still look good. Looking good doesn't mean you have good genetics. Good genetics would mean that you would look very impressive compared to other people who take the same drugs as you.

Jeff Seid is a good example of a guy who has good genetics for building muscle and who would still have gotten an amazing physique without steroids because he was already as big as David Laid is right now when he was a teenager natural lifter. That is the difference.

 

[randomuser2407]

then tell me, what do good insertions/genetcis mean if zyzz/david laid "don't have them" ?

Jeff Seid has good genetics, he had a great physique at 16 before he started taking steroids.

David Laid was a skinny guy before he started taking steroids and it took him years of serious lifting and steroid use to look like what he does now.

Jeff Seid never had to train as hard as David Laid and he is much bigger, and he has always been bigger.

As for Zyzz, he was a skinny guy like David Laid before he started taking steroids, so he too had bad genetics.

Muscle insertions are only important for bodybuilding shows because that is one of the things that judges care about, but in the real world, women will mainly judge you based on your face, the size of your muscles and whether or not you have six pack abs, they don't care about the small details and their ideal male physique is not David Laid, but closer to Chris Hemsworth in Thor, Chris Evans in Captain America, or Channing Tatum in Magic Mike. Those are physiques that can be achieved naturally within 2-3 years of serious training. That won't make you win a bodybuilding show but it will attract a lot of women and men will still find you aesthetic.

 

[Constantin Denis]

As for Zyzz, he was a skinny guy like David Laid before he started taking steroids, so he too had bad genetics.

so unless you're a bear before starting you have shit genetics ?
holy shit at this autism
they literally grew. they were in puberty when they first started. Steroids or not these guys have/had the bodies of greek gods.
Size doesn't mean good genetics. Good genetics means being idolized by the whole world like David Laid/Zyzz/Jeff Seid

 

[randomuser2407]

this
i wish i had u as my personal trainer irl

Like I said before, gaining muscle is pretty simple, you just need to train every movement pattern, at high enough volume (sets and reps) and at a high enough frequency (number of times per week that you train each muscle group).

For the upper body, you need:

Horizontal Push: Bench Press
Vertical Push: Overhead Press
Horizontal Pull: Barbell Bent-Over Row
Vertical Pull: Pull Up or Lat Pulldown
Triceps: Skullcrushers
Biceps: Barbell Curl


For the lower body, you need:

Knee Flexion: Squats (high bar or low bar)
Hip Hinge: Deadlifts (sumo, conventional, romanian or stiff-legged)
Unilateral Work: Lunges, reverse lunges, or bulgarian split squats)


For the volume, I do 4 sets of 6-10 reps per exercise, except for the deadlift where I do 3 sets.
For the frequency, I train each exercise twice a week on a 4 days per week upper lower program.

Whenever I do enough reps for a given exercise, I add weight (2.5 lbs to my upper body lifts and 5 lbs to my lower body lifts).

Even on days where I am not getting stronger, I know that I am building muscle as long as I am eating enough so it is not completely demotivating.

 

[Constantin Denis]

Muscle insertions are only important for bodybuilding shows because that is one of the things that judges care about, but in the real world, women will mainly judge you

they will still judge your physique based on your insertions.

Good genetics would mean that you would look very impressive compared to other people who take the same drugs as you

David Laid looks very impressive compared to the other people that took roids.
He has 2m followers on insta for his "bad genetics"

 

[randomuser2407]

so unless you're a bear before starting you have shit genetics ?
holy shit at this autism
they literally grew. they were in puberty when they first started. Steroids or not these guys have/had the bodies of greek gods.
Size doesn't mean good genetics. Good genetics means being idolized by the whole world like David Laid/Zyzz/Jeff Seid

You are retarded.

Zyzz and David Laid aren't famous for their muscles alone but for their looks and their wide social media following.

There are plenty of guys in the world who look more impressive than them but they aren't popular simply because they aren't good at social media and they tend to be less good looking in the face so people would be less interested in them.

Gymshark athletes aren't picked only for their physique, they are picked for their good looking face too. David Laid is a prettyboy, that is why they picked him.

Zyzz wasn't very good looking in the face but he got famous by doing crazy stuff in public and by partying a lot with lots of drugs and alcohol whilst being shirtless.

Zyzz and David Laid have very bad genetics, but they used steroids to surpass what they could have achieved naturally.
Yes genetics determine what can be achieved naturally and what can be achieved with steroids, so if you are a skinny hardgainer, steroids will give you an advantage but the muscular jock who has always been buff will still always mog you if he also chooses to take steroids, and taking a higher dose than him will not necessarily give you better results. So genetics matter a lot.

 

[randomuser2407]

they will still judge your physique based on your insertions.

David Laid looks very impressive compared to the other people that took roids.
He has 2m followers on insta for his "bad genetics"

He doesn't look impressive, he has a good looking face, that is the difference.

There are lots of guys who look way better than David Laid, but because they have an ugly face, they fly under the radar and nobody notices them.

 

[Sigmamale]

so unless you're a bear before starting you have shit genetics ?
holy shit at this autism
they literally grew. they were in puberty when they first started. Steroids or not these guys have/had the bodies of greek gods.
Size doesn't mean good genetics. Good genetics means being idolized by the whole world like David Laid/Zyzz/Jeff Seid

David laid literally has some of the best genetics. Great insertions AND Great bone structure. Zyzz didn't have the best bone structure but had great insertions too. Who cares if they had low muscle mass do you know how many naturally stocky people there are who have muscle but would look like shit if they hopped on gear. @copingvolcel

 

[Offensive Bias]

Shoulder to waist ratio and legs to torso ratio matter more, but insertions are crucial for aesthetics too. Don't worry tho, if your shoulders are wide and waist is small, you will look amazing despite shit insertions. Now let's get to them.

Having a square chest:
View attachment 1580829View attachment 1580831
View attachment 1580849

Having a square chest with no gaps between the pecs and good symmetry will make you look like a greek god
You can still look like a god even with a slight gap, considering your chest is still square: for example jeff seid with a very slight gap in the lower chest.
But look at this absolute spartan:
View attachment 1580846View attachment 1580847
The difference between average and god tier chest insertions:
View attachment 1580851

Biceps insertions:
View attachment 1580856View attachment 1580867
Check how many fingers can you fit between the biceps and the end of your arm while flexing. The lower the space the better. For example David Laid can fit about 2, as his bicep gap looks just like mine, that categorizes as good biceps genetics, same thing with Jeff Seid, and his arms look huge.
Keep in mind Arnold had quite a huge gap, yet his arms were insane. But for aesthetics, you want your arms to look fuller.

Types of bicep peaks:
View attachment 1580869

Triceps/ Shoulder insertions:
You want a low tricep insertion, otherwise, a high insertion might connect too much behind your rear delt which will give you this look:
View attachment 1580933
No clear separation between tricep and shoulder as you can see
Now some examples of good separation between them:
View attachment 1580944View attachment 1580945
As for the shoulders same thing, you want them to stand out from the rest of the arm muscles, to create a round look and make them pop out.



Different shapes:
View attachment 1580924

Lats insertions: Low vs high
View attachment 1580890
In my opinion, high lats insertions look more aesthetic, because they make the waist look smaller. Could be a factor in aesthtics.

Core insertions (abs/obliques/adonis belt):
For abs, as long as you have no gaps, they will look good, but symmetrical would be ideal. Also, crucial to have a small waist and small hips. Number of abs also matter, majority of population has 4/6 packs but 8 packs are extremely rare.
Variations:
View attachment 1580953
Upper obliques and adonis belt: Are they visible or not ?
View attachment 1580965View attachment 1580966

Quads:
They just make your legs stand out from your body.
View attachment 1580972
View attachment 1580973
View attachment 1580974

Calves:
High insertions look good, low insertions look like shit
Low:
View attachment 1580985
High:
View attachment 1580986
All olympic runners have high insertions. You can't run fast with low insertions.

Difference in size between muscles/proportions:
View attachment 1580994
Other of my threads about frame and proportios:

The head to height ratio pill

An average person is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head). An ideal figure, used when aiming for an impression of NOBILITY AND GRACE, is drawn at 8 heads tall. You want to have at a ratio of at least 8 heads. The bigger the ratio the more heroic one looks. That's why...

looksmax.org

Lifefuel for me cause I have somewhat long bicep insertions and other positive traits you mentioned.

 

[SubhumanCurrycel]

Shoulder to waist ratio and legs to torso ratio matter more, but insertions are crucial for aesthetics too. Don't worry tho, if your shoulders are wide and waist is small, you will look amazing despite shit insertions. Now let's get to them.

Having a square chest:
View attachment 1580829View attachment 1580831
View attachment 1580849

Having a square chest with no gaps between the pecs and good symmetry will make you look like a greek god
You can still look like a god even with a slight gap, considering your chest is still square: for example jeff seid with a very slight gap in the lower chest.
But look at this absolute spartan:
View attachment 1580846View attachment 1580847
The difference between average and god tier chest insertions:
View attachment 1580851

Biceps insertions:
View attachment 1580856View attachment 1580867
Check how many fingers can you fit between the biceps and the end of your arm while flexing. The lower the space the better. For example David Laid can fit about 2, as his bicep gap looks just like mine, that categorizes as good biceps genetics, same thing with Jeff Seid, and his arms look huge.
Keep in mind Arnold had quite a huge gap, yet his arms were insane. But for aesthetics, you want your arms to look fuller.

Types of bicep peaks:
View attachment 1580869

Triceps/ Shoulder insertions:
You want a low tricep insertion, otherwise, a high insertion might connect too much behind your rear delt which will give you this look:
View attachment 1580933
No clear separation between tricep and shoulder as you can see
Now some examples of good separation between them:
View attachment 1580944View attachment 1580945
As for the shoulders same thing, you want them to stand out from the rest of the arm muscles, to create a round look and make them pop out.



Different shapes:
View attachment 1580924

Lats insertions: Low vs high
View attachment 1580890
In my opinion, high lats insertions look more aesthetic, because they make the waist look smaller. Could be a factor in aesthtics.

Core insertions (abs/obliques/adonis belt):
For abs, as long as you have no gaps, they will look good, but symmetrical would be ideal. Also, crucial to have a small waist and small hips. Number of abs also matter, majority of population has 4/6 packs but 8 packs are extremely rare.
Variations:
View attachment 1580953
Upper obliques and adonis belt: Are they visible or not ?
View attachment 1580965View attachment 1580966

Quads:
They just make your legs stand out from your body.
View attachment 1580972
View attachment 1580973
View attachment 1580974

Calves:
High insertions look good, low insertions look like shit
Low:
View attachment 1580985
High:
View attachment 1580986
All olympic runners have high insertions. You can't run fast with low insertions.

Difference in size between muscles/proportions:
View attachment 1580994
Other of my threads about frame and proportios:

The head to height ratio pill

An average person is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head). An ideal figure, used when aiming for an impression of NOBILITY AND GRACE, is drawn at 8 heads tall. You want to have at a ratio of at least 8 heads. The bigger the ratio the more heroic one looks. That's why...

looksmax.org

Good thread.
Shoulder insertions are criminally underrated

My friend has shoulder insertions similar to this honestly looks insane and aesthetic as fuck

 

[Deleted member 13710]

Low calf insertions mog. Low calf insertions are stronger and look bigger. The bodybuilders whose calves look tiny no matter how much mass they put on all have high calf insertions.

 

[Deleted member 17763]

Also, David Laid is on high amounts of steroids just like Jeff Seid, so he isn't a good example, he doesn't have perfect insertions or good genetics, he is just enhanced

That's not how insertions and steroids work at all JFL. They both have phenomenal insertions which is a major factor in why they look so aesthetic and why they became so famous. On the other hand if you have bad insertions your physique will always look like shit no matter how big you are or how much gear you run

 

[Deleted member 17763]

Chris Hemsworth in Thor, Chris Evans in Captain America, or Channing Tatum in Magic Mike. Those are physiques that can be achieved naturally within 2-3 years of serious training.

Literally all of these physiques are perfect examples of girls getting wet about good insertions, they're obsessed with Chris Evans chest in that movie not just because he's jacked but because his insertions are top tier. Also JFL if you think this is natty achieveable in 2-3 years:

You're clearly one of those people who just think anyone's natty if they aren't dickskin peeled and vice versa

 

[Deleted member 15305]

 

[kalefartbomb]

In my experience even as someone who has lifted for more than 10 years and built a decent physique, face and height are significantly more important than this sort of thing. You see this all the time in celebrities that a good looking face will halo a celebrity such that women don't even notice his physique flaws.

The other thing to keep in mind is that unless you live in Florida or something, a woman probably isn't going to see you shirtless until she's already decided she is attracted to you. The muscles that actually matter in the initial stages of attraction are the arms, shoulders, and overall shoulder width. Abs are hugely overrated, you just need a flat stomach and a waist that tapers down from your upper torso.

 

[Constantin Denis]

In my experience even as someone who has lifted for more than 10 years and built a decent physique, face and height are significantly more important than this sort of thing. You see this all the time in celebrities that a good looking face will halo a celebrity such that women don't even notice his physique flaws.

The other thing to keep in mind is that unless you live in Florida or something, a woman probably isn't going to see you shirtless until she's already decided she is attracted to you. The muscles that actually matter in the initial stages of attraction are the arms, shoulders, and overall shoulder width. Abs are hugely overrated, you just need a flat stomach and a waist that tapers down from your upper torso.

Face and body different topics. Why does everyone click on a body thread to say face>body ? Ik lol

 

[Deleted member 14781]

None of that stuff matters, unless you are a competitive bodybuilder trying to surpass Chris Bumstead.

Also, David Laid is on high amounts of steroids just like Jeff Seid, so he isn't a good example, he doesn't have perfect insertions or good genetics, he is just enhanced. There are many guys who are enhanced who look way better than him, he isn't very impressive for what he takes.

Women don't care about the shape of your muscles, they care about the size of your muscles and the visibility of your abs, and what your strength can do for them (pick them up, dominate them, protect them and so on).

If you want realistic goals of what you can achieve as a natural lifter, don't compare yourself to enhanced guys, and in fact, don't compare yourself to anyone else, because your genetics will give you different results.

But no matter what your genetics are, the vast majority of men, no matter how skinny they are at the start, can acquire a very impressive physique without drugs that women would find extremely attractive.

We don't want realistic goals we want to be the best

 

[Deleted member 14781]

In my experience even as someone who has lifted for more than 10 years and built a decent physique, face and height are significantly more important than this sort of thing. You see this all the time in celebrities that a good looking face will halo a celebrity such that women don't even notice his physique flaws.

The other thing to keep in mind is that unless you live in Florida or something, a woman probably isn't going to see you shirtless until she's already decided she is attracted to you. The muscles that actually matter in the initial stages of attraction are the arms, shoulders, and overall shoulder width. Abs are hugely overrated, you just need a flat stomach and a waist that tapers down from your upper torso.

With social media you can show off your body without being naked in front of the girl. That's basically what foids do all the time.

 

[Constantin Denis]

You are retarded.

you are literally stupid as fuck in every comment

 

[randomuser2407]

We don't want realistic goals we want to be the best

That is like saying you don't want to be human, you want to fly like Superman.

It doesn't matter what you want, what matters is what you can do.

 

[randomuser2407]

Literally all of these physiques are perfect examples of girls getting wet about good insertions, they're obsessed with Chris Evans chest in that movie not just because he's jacked but because his insertions are top tier. Also JFL if you think this is natty achieveable in 2-3 years:

You're clearly one of those people who just think anyone's natty if they aren't dickskin peeled and vice versa

Chris Evans didn't look like that 24/7, he looked like that only with a pump and hollywood level lighting. He looked much smaller without those enhancements and you can see what he really looked like here:

That physique is definitely achievable naturally within 2-3 years.

But even then, women don't care about muscle shape, they care about muscle size and six pack abs, and you don't even need to be huge.

Just a physique like what Brad Pitt had in Fight Club is still way better than the average man. And the only reason why it is not ideal is because you don't look like you lift with a shirt on, but that can be acquired within 6-12 months of serious training:

Women care about strength and overall aesthetics, not the specifics of what would make you win a pro bodybuilding show.

I have seen many guys who just have a Brad Pitt physique who got laid a lot even though they had a very below average looking face, just because they were fit and it made them look very masculine and they were confident.

The boost that steroids can give you isn't completely necessary, that is my main point.

 

[Deleted member 1140]

jfl i got bad bicep, chest and calves insertions but at least good triceps, lats, wide shoulders and small waist

 

[Constantin Denis]

Just a physique like what Brad Pitt had in Fight Club is still way better than the average man

still all about insertions and bone structure

 

[Deleted member 14781]

That is like saying you don't want to be human, you want to fly like Superman.

It doesn't matter what you want, what matters is what you can do.

I can do roids and forget about your natty limits

 

[randomuser2407]

I can do roids and forget about your natty limits

Yes but a natural can still achieve a very impressive physique in as little as 2-3 years without worrying about dangerous side effects.

 

[randomuser2407]

still all about insertions and bone structure

I am starting to understand why most of you are incels lol

 

[Deleted member 14781]

Yes but a natural can still achieve a very impressive physique in as little as 2-3 years without worrying about dangerous side effects.

Those 2/3 years thing is a meme. Takes way more plus perfect diet and training. Roids side effects are overblown.

 

[randomuser2407]

Those 2/3 years thing is a meme. Takes way more plus perfect diet and training. Roids side effects are overblown.

No, it takes less than 2-3 years, because it takes 6-12 months of serious training to make 80% of total natural gains, and then, the remaining 10-15% takes 1-2 years, depending on genetics, and then year after year, I will barely make any gains, I will gain some strength but it won't show a lot of size difference, even after 5-10 years. So, it is when I will reach that point of diminishing returns that I will be able to decide whether or not I am satisfied with a natural physique. But for most guys, they will be satisfied with a natural physique, even if their genetics are average.

Gymmaxxing isn't a miracle solution to getting laid but it is the most effective looksmax for most guys because it makes the biggest difference.

 

[IThinkImAboutToROPE]

Shoulder to waist ratio and legs to torso ratio matter more, but insertions are crucial for aesthetics too. Don't worry tho, if your shoulders are wide and waist is small, you will look amazing despite shit insertions. Now let's get to them.

Having a square chest:
View attachment 1580829View attachment 1580831
View attachment 1580849

Having a square chest with no gaps between the pecs and good symmetry will make you look like a greek god
You can still look like a god even with a slight gap, considering your chest is still square: for example jeff seid with a very slight gap in the lower chest.
But look at this absolute spartan:
View attachment 1580846View attachment 1580847
The difference between average and god tier chest insertions:
View attachment 1580851

Biceps insertions:
View attachment 1580856View attachment 1580867
Check how many fingers can you fit between the biceps and the end of your arm while flexing. The lower the space the better. For example David Laid can fit about 2, as his bicep gap looks just like mine, that categorizes as good biceps genetics, same thing with Jeff Seid, and his arms look huge.
Keep in mind Arnold had quite a huge gap, yet his arms were insane. But for aesthetics, you want your arms to look fuller.

Types of bicep peaks:
View attachment 1580869

Triceps/ Shoulder insertions:
You want a low tricep insertion, otherwise, a high insertion might connect too much behind your rear delt which will give you this look:
View attachment 1580933
No clear separation between tricep and shoulder as you can see
Now some examples of good separation between them:
View attachment 1580944View attachment 1580945
As for the shoulders same thing, you want them to stand out from the rest of the arm muscles, to create a round look and make them pop out.



Different shapes:
View attachment 1580924

Lats insertions: Low vs high
View attachment 1580890
In my opinion, high lats insertions look more aesthetic, because they make the waist look smaller. Could be a factor in aesthtics.

Core insertions (abs/obliques/adonis belt):
For abs, as long as you have no gaps, they will look good, but symmetrical would be ideal. Also, crucial to have a small waist and small hips. Number of abs also matter, majority of population has 4/6 packs but 8 packs are extremely rare.
Variations:
View attachment 1580953
Upper obliques and adonis belt: Are they visible or not ?
View attachment 1580965View attachment 1580966

Quads:
They just make your legs stand out from your body.
View attachment 1580972
View attachment 1580973
View attachment 1580974

Calves:
High insertions look good, low insertions look like shit
Low:
View attachment 1580985
High:
View attachment 1580986
All olympic runners have high insertions. You can't run fast with low insertions.

Difference in size between muscles/proportions:
View attachment 1580994
Other of my threads about frame and proportios:

The head to height ratio pill

An average person is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head). An ideal figure, used when aiming for an impression of NOBILITY AND GRACE, is drawn at 8 heads tall. You want to have at a ratio of at least 8 heads. The bigger the ratio the more heroic one looks. That's why...

looksmax.org

Shit thread: face+height above all

 

[Constantin Denis]

I am starting to understand why most of you are incels lo

my guy you're low af iq in every comment you made on this thread

 

[Deleted member 14781]

No, it takes less than 2-3 years, because it takes 6-12 months of serious training to make 80% of total natural gains, and then, the remaining 10-15% takes 1-2 years, depending on genetics, and then year after year, I will barely make any gains, I will gain some strength but it won't show a lot of size difference, even after 5-10 years. So, it is when I will reach that point of diminishing returns that I will be able to decide whether or not I am satisfied with a natural physique. But for most guys, they will be satisfied with a natural physique, even if their genetics are average.

Gymmaxxing isn't a miracle solution to getting laid but it is the most effective looksmax for most guys because it makes the biggest difference.

Cope

 

[6ft4]

internipple distance is important for chest aesthetics and Laid's is shit (so is mine from small ribcage)

 

[Deleted member 17763]

I am starting to understand why most of you are incels lol

No ones disagreeing that most guys would look great after 2-3 years of lifting but insertions are real and they have nothing to do with roids. Obviously frame and height are more important but if you don’t understand insertions you don’t understand aesthetics or lifting for aesthetics

 

[Constantin Denis]

internipple distance is important for chest aesthetics and Laid's is shit (so is mine from small ribcage)

random bullshit that is not true. If it would play a factor in aesthetics, Laid's chest wouldn't look so godly.

 

[Schönling]

I won’t talk to a girl till I look like David Laid

 

[randomuser2407]

No ones disagreeing that most guys would look great after 2-3 years of lifting but insertions are real and they have nothing to do with roids. Obviously frame and height are more important but if you don’t understand insertions you don’t understand aesthetics or lifting for aesthetics

Insertions definitely have an impact, I have a friend who is 6 foot 5 and very muscular with a very wide frame who doesn't have really good insertions for abs and pecs but still, people treat him with a lot of respect due to his sheer muscle size