My Best and Worst surgeries tier list

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1) bimax

-requires you to be a candidate. bimax also called double jaw surgery moved the lower teeth and upper teeth forward with the bone connected to them via cutting the mandible and cutting the maxilla. different surgeons can do slightly different cuts and it does matter. if you ARENT A FUCKING BIMAX PATIENT, bimax isn't a good idea. you can do alot with a bimax. if the maxilla is at a cucked angle, a rotation can set it straight whilst also moving it forward. you DO NOT want an overly protrusive bimax movement with large movements forward because it doesn't move the entire maxilla, JUST a small section above the teeth, so you'll look like a fucking monkey, UNLESS you actually have that area recessed.

-remember the aesthetic goal of bimax is to have the lower maxilla even with the upper, not protruding, and if you want anteface that means moving the ENTIRE maxilla forward which is a lefort 2/3, not a bimax, which is a lefort 1 cut + BSSO.

2) genioplasty
-ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO BE A CANDIDATE. this is #2 on the list because 80% of people i see are brutally recessed in the chin. a projected chin is a Caucasian trait. the reason why genio isn't for everyone is many white people have TOO big of a chin. sometimes it's this huge projecting chin and a recessed maxilla. so they actually need a bimax and a chin REDUCTION. but on every race that isn't white a genio can be beneficial. there's different types of cuts and it's all supposed to be tailored SPECIFICALLY to your face.

3) hair transplant
-should be self explanatory. hair is life. you don't actually need comically dense hair you just have to have enough to where the girl looks at you and says "he has hair he's not bald". andrew tate and tristan tate literally survive off the few transplanted hairs on their raped scalps.

4) leg lengthening
- it's a horrible surgery but if you aren't tall it's hard to stand out so unironically go nuclear and let these indians break your legs for the mog or whatever. whatever it takes. if you do get LL don't fucking gatekeep it and share it because 99.9% of men are pussies and won't even use TRT which you can order online right now, much less touch finasteride, much less get jaw surgery, MUCH LESS break their legs in half. if you share information instead of gatekeep it, it comes back around, and people share LIFESAVING information back with you. gatekeeping is a short term success, long term failure of a strategy to succeed in life.

5) zygomatic implants
i seriously think 99% of people don't have good cheekbones and all models have insanity tier cheekbones. ogee curve mogs insanely hard and the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up. there's actual ratios and shit for jaw and you can't go too big in certain areas or it's unaesthetic but with zygos you can go nuclear and it just mogs harder up to a certain point.

6) leanmaxxing, minimizing water retention, Botox
-bloat is either caused by fat, water in the fat and muscles in your face, or an overdevelopment of facial muscles. just obliterate all of it. get shredded, keep sodium intake low and do all the cope water retention bullshit, get botox in the masseter muscle to reduce the bloat there.

7) rhinoplasty
- another shit surgery because 50% of normies don't even like their own rhino results, much less a person with an aesthetic eye like myself. surgeon is everything and proper communication to detail exactly what you want. morphing ability is key here too so the surgeon gets a good understanding. with nose it's the alar base width that's important as well as the sub-nasal angle from the side profile between the nostrils and the mouth, you want it to be a small angle not open. you want the nasal bridge to be forward and projecting with a projected radix under the browridge, a sign of facial depth visible from the side profile. rhino is a shit surgery but it's very important.

The next few are just off the top of my head worst fucking surgeries and my reasons why. Not going to include fucking lefort 4 monobloc and OBO.

1) MSE, SARPE, palate expansion
- expands assymetrically, doesn't improve the actual ARCH of the teeth, just makes the widest point of the teeth wider, but that was never the issue, you want it to be forward and wide arch AT THE FRONT when you smile, and narrow on the sides. MSE just makes the sides even wider. Removes any hollowing in the cheeks, expands assymetrically, widens zygos which isn't always good, increases nasal base width, overall terrible fucking aesthetic plan. Sometimes it works out though but I won't be touching this.

2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.

3) microblading the eyebrows
- scalp SMP is probably a good idea but tattooing your eyebrows it often fades, gets blurry, turns gray, and looks very fake and anyone actually looking at you is going to say "this guy has tattooed eyebrows what the fuck?"

4) implants from eppley
-seriously do not go to this fucking idiot he has no idea how to design anything it looks so bad

5) hairline lowering, voice deepening surgeries
-leaves a massive scar across your entire forehead to lower your hairline. congrats you now have to grow out your hair to cover a scar on your low hairline instead of covering your massive forehead with hair.

if you post pics i will tell you what you need and can morph. i would like to fix this forum and make a good community with no gatekeeping, free thought, and people actually winning at life.
 
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but amnesia got hairline surgery and doesnt have a scar ?
 
2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.
What do u suggest for lowering gonial angle then

I need a small jaw angle implant
 
Thoughts on lip lifts?
 
the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up
you can fuck everything up if you go nuclear on it. Especially if youre widening the cheeckbones laterally, it needs to be harmonious with the gonial and temporal width.

i actually dont know any ratio though to see if the cheeckbones have too much forward growth.
 
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What do u suggest for lowering gonial angle then

I need a small jaw angle implant
pretty sure ccw rotation would be the only other possible solution.
 
I disagree with a decent portion of this
 
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so what if my occlusal plane is fine
prob nothing outside of implants.

but can you even be downward grown with good occlusal plane?
 
Voice deepening surgery and jaw implants aren't cope rather bimax is a terra cope and 90% guys who are planning to have bimax don't even need it
 
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I disagree with a decent portion of this

That's fine share your reasons if you care enough if not fuck it it doesn't matter.
 
Voice deepening surgery and jaw implants aren't cope rather bimax is a terra cope and 90% guys who are planning to have bimax don't even need it
I heard voice deepening relapses, dont know how much and how often though. Its a pretty obscure surgery.

I remember watching some gay guy on youtube do it, then checking out his newer videos just to see it be like before.

Its underrated though for sure if it doesnt relapse
 
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1) bimax

-requires you to be a candidate. bimax also called double jaw surgery moved the lower teeth and upper teeth forward with the bone connected to them via cutting the mandible and cutting the maxilla. different surgeons can do slightly different cuts and it does matter. if you ARENT A FUCKING BIMAX PATIENT, bimax isn't a good idea. you can do alot with a bimax. if the maxilla is at a cucked angle, a rotation can set it straight whilst also moving it forward. you DO NOT want an overly protrusive bimax movement with large movements forward because it doesn't move the entire maxilla, JUST a small section above the teeth, so you'll look like a fucking monkey, UNLESS you actually have that area recessed.

-remember the aesthetic goal of bimax is to have the lower maxilla even with the upper, not protruding, and if you want anteface that means moving the ENTIRE maxilla forward which is a lefort 2/3, not a bimax, which is a lefort 1 cut + BSSO.

2) genioplasty
-ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO BE A CANDIDATE. this is #2 on the list because 80% of people i see are brutally recessed in the chin. a projected chin is a Caucasian trait. the reason why genio isn't for everyone is many white people have TOO big of a chin. sometimes it's this huge projecting chin and a recessed maxilla. so they actually need a bimax and a chin REDUCTION. but on every race that isn't white a genio can be beneficial. there's different types of cuts and it's all supposed to be tailored SPECIFICALLY to your face.

3) hair transplant
-should be self explanatory. hair is life. you don't actually need comically dense hair you just have to have enough to where the girl looks at you and says "he has hair he's not bald". andrew tate and tristan tate literally survive off the few transplanted hairs on their raped scalps.

4) leg lengthening
- it's a horrible surgery but if you aren't tall it's hard to stand out so unironically go nuclear and let these indians break your legs for the mog or whatever. whatever it takes. if you do get LL don't fucking gatekeep it and share it because 99.9% of men are pussies and won't even use TRT which you can order online right now, much less touch finasteride, much less get jaw surgery, MUCH LESS break their legs in half. if you share information instead of gatekeep it, it comes back around, and people share LIFESAVING information back with you. gatekeeping is a short term success, long term failure of a strategy to succeed in life.

5) zygomatic implants
i seriously think 99% of people don't have good cheekbones and all models have insanity tier cheekbones. ogee curve mogs insanely hard and the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up. there's actual ratios and shit for jaw and you can't go too big in certain areas or it's unaesthetic but with zygos you can go nuclear and it just mogs harder up to a certain point.

6) leanmaxxing, minimizing water retention, Botox
-bloat is either caused by fat, water in the fat and muscles in your face, or an overdevelopment of facial muscles. just obliterate all of it. get shredded, keep sodium intake low and do all the cope water retention bullshit, get botox in the masseter muscle to reduce the bloat there.

7) rhinoplasty
- another shit surgery because 50% of normies don't even like their own rhino results, much less a person with an aesthetic eye like myself. surgeon is everything and proper communication to detail exactly what you want. morphing ability is key here too so the surgeon gets a good understanding. with nose it's the alar base width that's important as well as the sub-nasal angle from the side profile between the nostrils and the mouth, you want it to be a small angle not open. you want the nasal bridge to be forward and projecting with a projected radix under the browridge, a sign of facial depth visible from the side profile. rhino is a shit surgery but it's very important.

The next few are just off the top of my head worst fucking surgeries and my reasons why. Not going to include fucking lefort 4 monobloc and OBO.

1) MSE, SARPE, palate expansion
- expands assymetrically, doesn't improve the actual ARCH of the teeth, just makes the widest point of the teeth wider, but that was never the issue, you want it to be forward and wide arch AT THE FRONT when you smile, and narrow on the sides. MSE just makes the sides even wider. Removes any hollowing in the cheeks, expands assymetrically, widens zygos which isn't always good, increases nasal base width, overall terrible fucking aesthetic plan. Sometimes it works out though but I won't be touching this.

2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.

3) microblading the eyebrows
- scalp SMP is probably a good idea but tattooing your eyebrows it often fades, gets blurry, turns gray, and looks very fake and anyone actually looking at you is going to say "this guy has tattooed eyebrows what the fuck?"

4) implants from eppley
-seriously do not go to this fucking idiot he has no idea how to design anything it looks so bad

5) hairline lowering, voice deepening surgeries
-leaves a massive scar across your entire forehead to lower your hairline. congrats you now have to grow out your hair to cover a scar on your low hairline instead of covering your massive forehead with hair.

if you post pics i will tell you what you need and can morph. i would like to fix this forum and make a good community with no gatekeeping, free thought, and people actually winning at life.
Bretty good list. I would have put hair transplant at number 1 most valuable. I would take zygomat implants off the list - the results always look uncanny.

I also disagree with voice deepening and forehead-lowering surgery being in the worst category. I've had both and have no scar from either.
 
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Bretty good list. I would have put hair transplant at number 1 most valuable. I would take zygomat implants off the list - the results always look uncanny.

I also disagree with voice deepening and forehead-lowering surgery being in the worst category. I've had both and have no scar from either.
how did your voice deepening go, no relapse?
 
Gonion implant one is brutal.

Screen-Shot-2022-10-18-at-3.23.18-PM-256x300.png


Obviously any implant is going to require detachment of a lot of the muscle on the mandible which obviously can’t be re-attached to an implant.

But also, having a narrow jaw or a short ramus are both terrible failos that can’t be solved with bimax
 
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Voice deepening surgery and jaw implants aren't cope rather bimax is a terra cope and 90% guys who are planning to have bimax don't even need it
Until what age voice can change? I searched it but studies says that it can change even if you are into your early 20s, however most body builders don’t have deep voices. Have you tried to raise t before you taken roids? Or roids can actually deepen the voice? Tbh in 4 months of improved lifestyle my voice changed and became much deeper.
 
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Until what age voice can change? I searched it but studies says that it can change even if you are into your early 20s, however most body builders don’t have deep voices. Have you tried to raise t before you taken roids? Or roids can actually deepen the voice? Tbh in 4 months of improved lifestyle my voice changed and became much deeper.
Naturally idk much about voice changes if it's possible after puberty might be
No I haven't seen any voice change from roids so far , it takes years maybe or only mtf transformations have voice changes and not males on test and even if it happens it takes years of abusing gear
 
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Naturally idk much about voice changes if it's possible after puberty might be
No I haven't seen any voice change from roids so far , it takes years maybe or only mtf transformations have voice changes and not males on test and even if it happens it takes years of abusing gear
good friend of mine told me DHT derivatives changes his voice on cycle but on cruise it returns back to normal.
 
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Naturally idk much about voice changes if it's possible after puberty might be
No I haven't seen any voice change from roids so far , it takes years maybe or only mtf transformations have voice changes and not males on test and even if it happens it takes years of abusing gear
Yeah once i read about a guy who used test for 7 years and he said that his voice became deeper after some year of juicing, not many men see voice changes from roids because they do some cicle and then stop, ending up literal cucks with 0 t because they don’t do pct and regualr t cycles(i'm serious many normies do that). Probably after puberty vocal chordes lost their sensivity to androgens. Under 18 natural t maxxing is the best thing imo
 
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This is an interesting list, I would include Otoplasty in there, as for MSE/Sarps? What do you suggest for people with extremely narrow palates / breathing issues that don’t need bimax?
 
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1) bimax

-requires you to be a candidate. bimax also called double jaw surgery moved the lower teeth and upper teeth forward with the bone connected to them via cutting the mandible and cutting the maxilla. different surgeons can do slightly different cuts and it does matter. if you ARENT A FUCKING BIMAX PATIENT, bimax isn't a good idea. you can do alot with a bimax. if the maxilla is at a cucked angle, a rotation can set it straight whilst also moving it forward. you DO NOT want an overly protrusive bimax movement with large movements forward because it doesn't move the entire maxilla, JUST a small section above the teeth, so you'll look like a fucking monkey, UNLESS you actually have that area recessed.

-remember the aesthetic goal of bimax is to have the lower maxilla even with the upper, not protruding, and if you want anteface that means moving the ENTIRE maxilla forward which is a lefort 2/3, not a bimax, which is a lefort 1 cut + BSSO.

2) genioplasty
-ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO BE A CANDIDATE. this is #2 on the list because 80% of people i see are brutally recessed in the chin. a projected chin is a Caucasian trait. the reason why genio isn't for everyone is many white people have TOO big of a chin. sometimes it's this huge projecting chin and a recessed maxilla. so they actually need a bimax and a chin REDUCTION. but on every race that isn't white a genio can be beneficial. there's different types of cuts and it's all supposed to be tailored SPECIFICALLY to your face.

3) hair transplant
-should be self explanatory. hair is life. you don't actually need comically dense hair you just have to have enough to where the girl looks at you and says "he has hair he's not bald". andrew tate and tristan tate literally survive off the few transplanted hairs on their raped scalps.

4) leg lengthening
- it's a horrible surgery but if you aren't tall it's hard to stand out so unironically go nuclear and let these indians break your legs for the mog or whatever. whatever it takes. if you do get LL don't fucking gatekeep it and share it because 99.9% of men are pussies and won't even use TRT which you can order online right now, much less touch finasteride, much less get jaw surgery, MUCH LESS break their legs in half. if you share information instead of gatekeep it, it comes back around, and people share LIFESAVING information back with you. gatekeeping is a short term success, long term failure of a strategy to succeed in life.

5) zygomatic implants
i seriously think 99% of people don't have good cheekbones and all models have insanity tier cheekbones. ogee curve mogs insanely hard and the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up. there's actual ratios and shit for jaw and you can't go too big in certain areas or it's unaesthetic but with zygos you can go nuclear and it just mogs harder up to a certain point.

6) leanmaxxing, minimizing water retention, Botox
-bloat is either caused by fat, water in the fat and muscles in your face, or an overdevelopment of facial muscles. just obliterate all of it. get shredded, keep sodium intake low and do all the cope water retention bullshit, get botox in the masseter muscle to reduce the bloat there.

7) rhinoplasty
- another shit surgery because 50% of normies don't even like their own rhino results, much less a person with an aesthetic eye like myself. surgeon is everything and proper communication to detail exactly what you want. morphing ability is key here too so the surgeon gets a good understanding. with nose it's the alar base width that's important as well as the sub-nasal angle from the side profile between the nostrils and the mouth, you want it to be a small angle not open. you want the nasal bridge to be forward and projecting with a projected radix under the browridge, a sign of facial depth visible from the side profile. rhino is a shit surgery but it's very important.

The next few are just off the top of my head worst fucking surgeries and my reasons why. Not going to include fucking lefort 4 monobloc and OBO.

1) MSE, SARPE, palate expansion
- expands assymetrically, doesn't improve the actual ARCH of the teeth, just makes the widest point of the teeth wider, but that was never the issue, you want it to be forward and wide arch AT THE FRONT when you smile, and narrow on the sides. MSE just makes the sides even wider. Removes any hollowing in the cheeks, expands assymetrically, widens zygos which isn't always good, increases nasal base width, overall terrible fucking aesthetic plan. Sometimes it works out though but I won't be touching this.

2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.

3) microblading the eyebrows
- scalp SMP is probably a good idea but tattooing your eyebrows it often fades, gets blurry, turns gray, and looks very fake and anyone actually looking at you is going to say "this guy has tattooed eyebrows what the fuck?"

4) implants from eppley
-seriously do not go to this fucking idiot he has no idea how to design anything it looks so bad

5) hairline lowering, voice deepening surgeries
-leaves a massive scar across your entire forehead to lower your hairline. congrats you now have to grow out your hair to cover a scar on your low hairline instead of covering your massive forehead with hair.

if you post pics i will tell you what you need and can morph. i would like to fix this forum and make a good community with no gatekeeping, free thought, and people actually winning at life.
Another list underrating rhinoplasty, nose is the central feature of your face
 
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This is an interesting list, I would include Otoplasty in there, as for MSE/Sarps? What do you suggest for people with extremely narrow palates / breathing issues that don’t need bimax?
1) bimax

-requires you to be a candidate. bimax also called double jaw surgery moved the lower teeth and upper teeth forward with the bone connected to them via cutting the mandible and cutting the maxilla. different surgeons can do slightly different cuts and it does matter. if you ARENT A FUCKING BIMAX PATIENT, bimax isn't a good idea. you can do alot with a bimax. if the maxilla is at a cucked angle, a rotation can set it straight whilst also moving it forward. you DO NOT want an overly protrusive bimax movement with large movements forward because it doesn't move the entire maxilla, JUST a small section above the teeth, so you'll look like a fucking monkey, UNLESS you actually have that area recessed.

-remember the aesthetic goal of bimax is to have the lower maxilla even with the upper, not protruding, and if you want anteface that means moving the ENTIRE maxilla forward which is a lefort 2/3, not a bimax, which is a lefort 1 cut + BSSO.

2) genioplasty
-ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO BE A CANDIDATE. this is #2 on the list because 80% of people i see are brutally recessed in the chin. a projected chin is a Caucasian trait. the reason why genio isn't for everyone is many white people have TOO big of a chin. sometimes it's this huge projecting chin and a recessed maxilla. so they actually need a bimax and a chin REDUCTION. but on every race that isn't white a genio can be beneficial. there's different types of cuts and it's all supposed to be tailored SPECIFICALLY to your face.

3) hair transplant
-should be self explanatory. hair is life. you don't actually need comically dense hair you just have to have enough to where the girl looks at you and says "he has hair he's not bald". andrew tate and tristan tate literally survive off the few transplanted hairs on their raped scalps.

4) leg lengthening
- it's a horrible surgery but if you aren't tall it's hard to stand out so unironically go nuclear and let these indians break your legs for the mog or whatever. whatever it takes. if you do get LL don't fucking gatekeep it and share it because 99.9% of men are pussies and won't even use TRT which you can order online right now, much less touch finasteride, much less get jaw surgery, MUCH LESS break their legs in half. if you share information instead of gatekeep it, it comes back around, and people share LIFESAVING information back with you. gatekeeping is a short term success, long term failure of a strategy to succeed in life.

5) zygomatic implants
i seriously think 99% of people don't have good cheekbones and all models have insanity tier cheekbones. ogee curve mogs insanely hard and the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up. there's actual ratios and shit for jaw and you can't go too big in certain areas or it's unaesthetic but with zygos you can go nuclear and it just mogs harder up to a certain point.

6) leanmaxxing, minimizing water retention, Botox
-bloat is either caused by fat, water in the fat and muscles in your face, or an overdevelopment of facial muscles. just obliterate all of it. get shredded, keep sodium intake low and do all the cope water retention bullshit, get botox in the masseter muscle to reduce the bloat there.

7) rhinoplasty
- another shit surgery because 50% of normies don't even like their own rhino results, much less a person with an aesthetic eye like myself. surgeon is everything and proper communication to detail exactly what you want. morphing ability is key here too so the surgeon gets a good understanding. with nose it's the alar base width that's important as well as the sub-nasal angle from the side profile between the nostrils and the mouth, you want it to be a small angle not open. you want the nasal bridge to be forward and projecting with a projected radix under the browridge, a sign of facial depth visible from the side profile. rhino is a shit surgery but it's very important.

The next few are just off the top of my head worst fucking surgeries and my reasons why. Not going to include fucking lefort 4 monobloc and OBO.

1) MSE, SARPE, palate expansion
- expands assymetrically, doesn't improve the actual ARCH of the teeth, just makes the widest point of the teeth wider, but that was never the issue, you want it to be forward and wide arch AT THE FRONT when you smile, and narrow on the sides. MSE just makes the sides even wider. Removes any hollowing in the cheeks, expands assymetrically, widens zygos which isn't always good, increases nasal base width, overall terrible fucking aesthetic plan. Sometimes it works out though but I won't be touching this.

2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.

3) microblading the eyebrows
- scalp SMP is probably a good idea but tattooing your eyebrows it often fades, gets blurry, turns gray, and looks very fake and anyone actually looking at you is going to say "this guy has tattooed eyebrows what the fuck?"

4) implants from eppley
-seriously do not go to this fucking idiot he has no idea how to design anything it looks so bad

5) hairline lowering, voice deepening surgeries
-leaves a massive scar across your entire forehead to lower your hairline. congrats you now have to grow out your hair to cover a scar on your low hairline instead of covering your massive forehead with hair.

if you post pics i will tell you what you need and can morph. i would like to fix this forum and make a good community with no gatekeeping, free thought, and people actually winning at life.
Does MSE really ruin chances of hollow cheeks I thought hallow cheeks are created by the way your teeth sit. If they flare out no hollow cheeks if they are tipped in hallow cheeks. Every PSL GOD had tipped in teeth.
 
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was hoping for eye surgeries to be included
 
Cope nose is always a factor everything matters a failo is a failo
We agree to disagree, your favorite male models don’t have perfect noses most of the time except for a few, but what they have is projecting bones
 
1) bimax

-requires you to be a candidate. bimax also called double jaw surgery moved the lower teeth and upper teeth forward with the bone connected to them via cutting the mandible and cutting the maxilla. different surgeons can do slightly different cuts and it does matter. if you ARENT A FUCKING BIMAX PATIENT, bimax isn't a good idea. you can do alot with a bimax. if the maxilla is at a cucked angle, a rotation can set it straight whilst also moving it forward. you DO NOT want an overly protrusive bimax movement with large movements forward because it doesn't move the entire maxilla, JUST a small section above the teeth, so you'll look like a fucking monkey, UNLESS you actually have that area recessed.

-remember the aesthetic goal of bimax is to have the lower maxilla even with the upper, not protruding, and if you want anteface that means moving the ENTIRE maxilla forward which is a lefort 2/3, not a bimax, which is a lefort 1 cut + BSSO.

2) genioplasty
-ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO BE A CANDIDATE. this is #2 on the list because 80% of people i see are brutally recessed in the chin. a projected chin is a Caucasian trait. the reason why genio isn't for everyone is many white people have TOO big of a chin. sometimes it's this huge projecting chin and a recessed maxilla. so they actually need a bimax and a chin REDUCTION. but on every race that isn't white a genio can be beneficial. there's different types of cuts and it's all supposed to be tailored SPECIFICALLY to your face.

3) hair transplant
-should be self explanatory. hair is life. you don't actually need comically dense hair you just have to have enough to where the girl looks at you and says "he has hair he's not bald". andrew tate and tristan tate literally survive off the few transplanted hairs on their raped scalps.

4) leg lengthening
- it's a horrible surgery but if you aren't tall it's hard to stand out so unironically go nuclear and let these indians break your legs for the mog or whatever. whatever it takes. if you do get LL don't fucking gatekeep it and share it because 99.9% of men are pussies and won't even use TRT which you can order online right now, much less touch finasteride, much less get jaw surgery, MUCH LESS break their legs in half. if you share information instead of gatekeep it, it comes back around, and people share LIFESAVING information back with you. gatekeeping is a short term success, long term failure of a strategy to succeed in life.

5) zygomatic implants
i seriously think 99% of people don't have good cheekbones and all models have insanity tier cheekbones. ogee curve mogs insanely hard and the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up. there's actual ratios and shit for jaw and you can't go too big in certain areas or it's unaesthetic but with zygos you can go nuclear and it just mogs harder up to a certain point.

6) leanmaxxing, minimizing water retention, Botox
-bloat is either caused by fat, water in the fat and muscles in your face, or an overdevelopment of facial muscles. just obliterate all of it. get shredded, keep sodium intake low and do all the cope water retention bullshit, get botox in the masseter muscle to reduce the bloat there.

7) rhinoplasty
- another shit surgery because 50% of normies don't even like their own rhino results, much less a person with an aesthetic eye like myself. surgeon is everything and proper communication to detail exactly what you want. morphing ability is key here too so the surgeon gets a good understanding. with nose it's the alar base width that's important as well as the sub-nasal angle from the side profile between the nostrils and the mouth, you want it to be a small angle not open. you want the nasal bridge to be forward and projecting with a projected radix under the browridge, a sign of facial depth visible from the side profile. rhino is a shit surgery but it's very important.

The next few are just off the top of my head worst fucking surgeries and my reasons why. Not going to include fucking lefort 4 monobloc and OBO.

1) MSE, SARPE, palate expansion
- expands assymetrically, doesn't improve the actual ARCH of the teeth, just makes the widest point of the teeth wider, but that was never the issue, you want it to be forward and wide arch AT THE FRONT when you smile, and narrow on the sides. MSE just makes the sides even wider. Removes any hollowing in the cheeks, expands assymetrically, widens zygos which isn't always good, increases nasal base width, overall terrible fucking aesthetic plan. Sometimes it works out though but I won't be touching this.

2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.

3) microblading the eyebrows
- scalp SMP is probably a good idea but tattooing your eyebrows it often fades, gets blurry, turns gray, and looks very fake and anyone actually looking at you is going to say "this guy has tattooed eyebrows what the fuck?"

4) implants from eppley
-seriously do not go to this fucking idiot he has no idea how to design anything it looks so bad

5) hairline lowering, voice deepening surgeries
-leaves a massive scar across your entire forehead to lower your hairline. congrats you now have to grow out your hair to cover a scar on your low hairline instead of covering your massive forehead with hair.

if you post pics i will tell you what you need and can morph. i would like to fix this forum and make a good community with no gatekeeping, free thought, and people actually winning at life.
pm me
 
1) bimax

-requires you to be a candidate. bimax also called double jaw surgery moved the lower teeth and upper teeth forward with the bone connected to them via cutting the mandible and cutting the maxilla. different surgeons can do slightly different cuts and it does matter. if you ARENT A FUCKING BIMAX PATIENT, bimax isn't a good idea. you can do alot with a bimax. if the maxilla is at a cucked angle, a rotation can set it straight whilst also moving it forward. you DO NOT want an overly protrusive bimax movement with large movements forward because it doesn't move the entire maxilla, JUST a small section above the teeth, so you'll look like a fucking monkey, UNLESS you actually have that area recessed.

-remember the aesthetic goal of bimax is to have the lower maxilla even with the upper, not protruding, and if you want anteface that means moving the ENTIRE maxilla forward which is a lefort 2/3, not a bimax, which is a lefort 1 cut + BSSO.

2) genioplasty
-ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO BE A CANDIDATE. this is #2 on the list because 80% of people i see are brutally recessed in the chin. a projected chin is a Caucasian trait. the reason why genio isn't for everyone is many white people have TOO big of a chin. sometimes it's this huge projecting chin and a recessed maxilla. so they actually need a bimax and a chin REDUCTION. but on every race that isn't white a genio can be beneficial. there's different types of cuts and it's all supposed to be tailored SPECIFICALLY to your face.

3) hair transplant
-should be self explanatory. hair is life. you don't actually need comically dense hair you just have to have enough to where the girl looks at you and says "he has hair he's not bald". andrew tate and tristan tate literally survive off the few transplanted hairs on their raped scalps.

4) leg lengthening
- it's a horrible surgery but if you aren't tall it's hard to stand out so unironically go nuclear and let these indians break your legs for the mog or whatever. whatever it takes. if you do get LL don't fucking gatekeep it and share it because 99.9% of men are pussies and won't even use TRT which you can order online right now, much less touch finasteride, much less get jaw surgery, MUCH LESS break their legs in half. if you share information instead of gatekeep it, it comes back around, and people share LIFESAVING information back with you. gatekeeping is a short term success, long term failure of a strategy to succeed in life.

5) zygomatic implants
i seriously think 99% of people don't have good cheekbones and all models have insanity tier cheekbones. ogee curve mogs insanely hard and the good thing about cheekbones is you can go huge with them and not fuck up other ratios because it's in the middle of your face and there's nothing else around it to fuck up. there's actual ratios and shit for jaw and you can't go too big in certain areas or it's unaesthetic but with zygos you can go nuclear and it just mogs harder up to a certain point.

6) leanmaxxing, minimizing water retention, Botox
-bloat is either caused by fat, water in the fat and muscles in your face, or an overdevelopment of facial muscles. just obliterate all of it. get shredded, keep sodium intake low and do all the cope water retention bullshit, get botox in the masseter muscle to reduce the bloat there.

7) rhinoplasty
- another shit surgery because 50% of normies don't even like their own rhino results, much less a person with an aesthetic eye like myself. surgeon is everything and proper communication to detail exactly what you want. morphing ability is key here too so the surgeon gets a good understanding. with nose it's the alar base width that's important as well as the sub-nasal angle from the side profile between the nostrils and the mouth, you want it to be a small angle not open. you want the nasal bridge to be forward and projecting with a projected radix under the browridge, a sign of facial depth visible from the side profile. rhino is a shit surgery but it's very important.

The next few are just off the top of my head worst fucking surgeries and my reasons why. Not going to include fucking lefort 4 monobloc and OBO.

1) MSE, SARPE, palate expansion
- expands assymetrically, doesn't improve the actual ARCH of the teeth, just makes the widest point of the teeth wider, but that was never the issue, you want it to be forward and wide arch AT THE FRONT when you smile, and narrow on the sides. MSE just makes the sides even wider. Removes any hollowing in the cheeks, expands assymetrically, widens zygos which isn't always good, increases nasal base width, overall terrible fucking aesthetic plan. Sometimes it works out though but I won't be touching this.

2) Gonion or jaw implants
- the implant themselves is not the issue. it's the process of putting it in. cuts the masseter muscle and lays it on top of this huge implant. masseter dishenance can occur and has occured in many who get jaw implants and they walk around now with a giga sharp implant poking out of their face because the masseter muscle isn't on top anymore.

3) microblading the eyebrows
- scalp SMP is probably a good idea but tattooing your eyebrows it often fades, gets blurry, turns gray, and looks very fake and anyone actually looking at you is going to say "this guy has tattooed eyebrows what the fuck?"

4) implants from eppley
-seriously do not go to this fucking idiot he has no idea how to design anything it looks so bad

5) hairline lowering, voice deepening surgeries
-leaves a massive scar across your entire forehead to lower your hairline. congrats you now have to grow out your hair to cover a scar on your low hairline instead of covering your massive forehead with hair.

if you post pics i will tell you what you need and can morph. i would like to fix this forum and make a good community with no gatekeeping, free thought, and people actually winning at life.
What do i need (obviously bimax) but are my zygos decent? Do I need geno? Tmaxxing as of now
 

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What do i need (obviously bimax) but are my zygos decent? Do I need geno? Tmaxxing as of now
You don’t need shit , you’re still a kid.
 
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What do i need (obviously bimax) but are my zygos decent? Do I need geno? Tmaxxing as of now
Focus on softmaxxing.
 
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Reactions: wwww
Best way to get a defined jaw angle assuming you have a jawline/decent dentofacial growth.

1683258457542

if you look like this but a little softer on the edges and round instead of pointy in the gonial area, and you want the jawline/jaw angle part to look more like what their one looks like.

I’m thinking lipo around jawline + jaw angle fillers.
 
Gonion implant one is brutal.

Screen-Shot-2022-10-18-at-3.23.18-PM-256x300.png


Obviously any implant is going to require detachment of a lot of the muscle on the mandible which obviously can’t be re-attached to an implant.

But also, having a narrow jaw or a short ramus are both terrible failos that can’t be solved with bimax
Can filler solve this?
 
Can filler solve this?

Putting filler under the masseter seems like it will just get squeezed out due to the action of the muscle, which is a very strong and frequently used one.

Obviously there are successful results from jaw implants and fillers so there must be some workaround.
 
Putting filler under the masseter seems like it will just get squeezed out due to the action of the muscle, which is a very strong and frequently used one.

Obviously there are successful results from jaw implants and fillers so there must be some workaround.
Theoretically you can dissolve it and replace it every 2 years. The FDA recently approved a (the only) filler Juvederm Volux XC for the jaw region.
 
Are there no jaw implant results/ surgeons that can prevent the masseter muscle from getting fucked/hidden?
 

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