My Genioplasty + Infraorbitals Morphs... or should I get BIMAX?

[valhalar]

I have two options. One jaw surgeon (Coceancig) said I NEEDED 2cm bimax, while another said that was insane and I should just do genioplasty with a chin shield cut (or a chin visor) to keep chin fold to a minimum.

Signs I need bimax:

• Coceancig said I need 2cm bimax for $80,000. Jfl... 2cm sounds monkey though.
• My nasolabial folds (see the second pic smiling) are kinda bad, doesn't that mean recessed paranasal area?
• Recessed chin but teeth meet = recessed jaws.

Concerns about bimax:

• While talking, mostly my lower teeth show, so any CCW would likely make this worse?
• My ogee curve is pretty good and bimax might worsen it.
• My eyes are pretty far back due to my prominent brow bone, a bimax would prob give me chimp face with sunken under eyes?
• Coceancig said I would develop a multitude of health issues without bimax even though my airway is fine and I don't get TMJ.
• Coceancig did hard sell on me saying I needed multiple procedures and jaw implants to become "one of a kind" but I don't wanna look like a twink with a giant jaw.
• My nasal base seems to be in an okay place.

Morphs: I morphed myself with a genioplasty (not very aggressive) and custom infraorbital implants for additional eye support. I could have these extended out a little into the zygos too on the right side of face. I think this is a reasonable morph and looks alright.


MORPHS WITH GENIOPLASTY ONLY

Should I do bimax or genioplasty?

Please be kind, it is hard being a recessed troglodyte in Coceancig's world.

 

[valhalar]

Tagging @Zenturio @Danish_Retard @randomvanish @herring for eye implants

These pics are my worst falio shots btw lollll

 

[valhalar]

Also an orthodontist told me I have body dysmorphia and I need to stop. But jfl I cannot unsee that I might need bimax cause of Coceancig.

 

[Birdcell]

Fuaaaark , only the greycels are actually looksmaxxing

 

[Birdcell]

Mirin bro very good results

 

[valhalar]

Mirin bro very good results

It's a morph not a result tho?

 

[Birdcell]

It's a morph not a result tho?

Mirin bro very good morphs

 

[TonyEffe]

Side profile looks chadlite tier

Angled 3/4th looks normie

Bimax only ascends the side profile, u need implants

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Hard to tell but if I were you I wouldn't do bimax tbh. Just lol @ 2cm bsso

 

[Deleted member 18086]

pic 5 looks better than 6

 

[Deleted member 2729]

I am pretty sure bimax would fuck you up

 

[valhalar]

Fuarkkk lol I am so glad I posted non-fraud pics. This is pretty reassuring

and wtf 20mm bimax on my face would make me a crocodile...

 

[valhalar]

pic 5 looks better than 6

Really? I still reckon genio and under eye support looks slightly better.

 

[valhalar]

Angled 3/4th looks normie

Bimax only ascends the side profile, u need implants

Which implants? The eye ones? I wouldn't do jaw tbh... except maybe on one side to symmetrise.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Which implants? The eye ones? I wouldn't do jaw tbh... except maybe on one side to symmetrise.

Show front pic tbh

 

[Deleted member 4430]

He just wants your money

 

[Deleted member 18086]

Which implants? The eye ones? I wouldn't do jaw tbh... except maybe on one side to symmetrise.

the UE support gets better but your face looks downwardly grown. if you want to add chin, add jaw first

 

[one job away]

Fuarkkk lol I am so glad I posted non-fraud pics. This is pretty reassuring

and wtf 20mm bimax on my face would make me a crocodile...

Absolutely no bimax for you lol. Especially not fckin 2 cm. Cocenacig is mad


You defenitly have BDD tho. Considering those are unfrauded and bad haircut in most of them you could probably model here n there after the surgery’s

The genio and eye morph is a improvement.

 

[randomvanish]

did coceancig really suggest 2cm bimax?
wtf ?????

 

[SendMePicsToRate]

I have two options. One jaw surgeon (Coceancig) said I NEEDED 2cm bimax, while another said that was insane and I should just do genioplasty with a chin shield cut (or a chin visor) to keep chin fold to a minimum.

Signs I need bimax:

• Coceancig said I need 2cm bimax for $80,000. Jfl... 2cm sounds monkey though.
• My nasolabial folds (see the second pic smiling) are kinda bad, doesn't that mean recessed paranasal area?
• Recessed chin but teeth meet = recessed jaws.

Concerns about bimax:

• While talking, mostly my lower teeth show, so any CCW would likely make this worse?
• My ogee curve is pretty good and bimax might worsen it.
• My eyes are pretty far back due to my prominent brow bone, a bimax would prob give me chimp face with sunken under eyes?
• Coceancig said I would develop a multitude of health issues without bimax even though my airway is fine and I don't get TMJ.
• Coceancig did hard sell on me saying I needed multiple procedures and jaw implants to become "one of a kind" but I don't wanna look like a twink with a giant jaw.
• My nasal base seems to be in an okay place.

Morphs: I morphed myself with a genioplasty (not very aggressive) and custom infraorbital implants for additional eye support. I could have these extended out a little into the zygos too on the right side of face. I think this is a reasonable morph and looks alright.


MORPHS WITH GENIOPLASTY ONLY

Should I do bimax or genioplasty?

Please be kind, it is hard being a recessed troglodyte in Coceancig's world.

Personally reckon a bimax would work well with your side profile, it will bring your lips into a more ideal alignment and increase mandible length which will pull soft tissue tighter which will make you look better as a whole.

Your eye area at the moment has essentially no flaws that I can see by the 3/4 view. Nose is a little wider than ideal and feminine from the side but isn't a huge deal.

Your cheekbones are low set from the looks of things and quite flat in terms of forward projection. That could be a point worth focusing on, I do not know about laterally though as you didn't upload frontal pics.

 

[valhalar]

did coceancig really suggest 2cm bimax?
wtf ?????

Yeah bro I tried to tell you that

Tbf he didn't do any planning on me, he just said that seeing my face for 30 minutes in his clinic.

 

[valhalar]

Based on the "Coceancig line" covered in another thread, it would be a 2cm advancement. No other surgeon uses his line tho cause they usually base it on soft tissue too.

 

[SendMePicsToRate]

 

[valhalar]

You defenitly have BDD tho. Considering those are unfrauded and bad haircut in most of them you could probably model here n there after the surgery’s

 

[one job away]

What do you mean? I really think that. That Fades side profile mogs

 

[valhalar]

What do you mean? I really think that. That Fades side profile mogs

Just a thanks tbh. Yeah I prob need shorter hair again lol.

 

[one job away]

Just a thanks tbh. Yeah I prob need shorter hair again lol.

Tho can you dm me good pics of yours? I asked you in a different thread. I’m just curious to see how you look in good pictures. Those unfrauded ones are usually brutal af

 

[valhalar]

Tho can you dm me good pics of yours? I asked you in a different thread. I’m just curious to see how you look in good pictures. Those unfrauded ones are usually brutal af

tbh I haven't really taken many other pics for a while so maybe when I have some in future.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

U already look good tbh. Surgery is unnecessary imo

 

[Gaia262]

I have two options. One jaw surgeon (Coceancig) said I NEEDED 2cm bimax, while another said that was insane and I should just do genioplasty with a chin shield cut (or a chin visor) to keep chin fold to a minimum.

Signs I need bimax:

• Coceancig said I need 2cm bimax for $80,000. Jfl... 2cm sounds monkey though.
• My nasolabial folds (see the second pic smiling) are kinda bad, doesn't that mean recessed paranasal area?
• Recessed chin but teeth meet = recessed jaws.

Concerns about bimax:

• While talking, mostly my lower teeth show, so any CCW would likely make this worse?
• My ogee curve is pretty good and bimax might worsen it.
• My eyes are pretty far back due to my prominent brow bone, a bimax would prob give me chimp face with sunken under eyes?
• Coceancig said I would develop a multitude of health issues without bimax even though my airway is fine and I don't get TMJ.
• Coceancig did hard sell on me saying I needed multiple procedures and jaw implants to become "one of a kind" but I don't wanna look like a twink with a giant jaw.
• My nasal base seems to be in an okay place.

Morphs: I morphed myself with a genioplasty (not very aggressive) and custom infraorbital implants for additional eye support. I could have these extended out a little into the zygos too on the right side of face. I think this is a reasonable morph and looks alright.


MORPHS WITH GENIOPLASTY ONLY

Should I do bimax or genioplasty?

Please be kind, it is hard being a recessed troglodyte in Coceancig's world.

Did Coceancig really say you needed a 2cm bimax, as in a 20mm bsso?

If he did that is downright dangerous and would destroy your face. Not even factoring in the possible nerve damage.

You don't really even need the surgery. I would even argue you can get away with fillers really well.

You already look good.

@AlexChase89

 

[valhalar]

Did Coceancig really say you needed a 2cm bimax, as in a 20mm bsso?

If he did that is downright dangerous and would destroy your face. Not even factoring in the possible nerve damage.

You don't really even need the surgery. I would even argue you can get away with fillers really well.

You already look good.

@AlexChase89

Yeah he just said “20mm advancement” but he did not look at any scans, only looking at me in clinic. I actually used the Coceancig line on one of my X-rays, the method he used to determine ‘normal’ alignment and it was roughly a 2cm advancement. But when I morphed it (this was over a year ago) it looked bad so I was confused. I also met one of his patients in clinic who looked chimpmaxxed.

 

[valhalar]

Tbf he may have met 20mm advancement with bimax _including a Genioplasty_

 

[RealSurgerymax]

You don’t need 20cm bimax lol

 

[RealSurgerymax]

Tbf he may have met 20mm advancement with bimax _including a Genioplasty_

He did. IMDO only goes up to 16.5mm
He means 20mm at the Pogonion

 

[valhalar]

He did. IMDO only goes up to 16.5mm
He means 20mm at the Pogonion

That makes more sense. and that is still considered extreme or?

 

[selfmaxing]

Doctor is right you have body image issues….

 

[thereallegend]

Infra + chin implants seems right

 

[chigoha]

you need fat grafts for your undereyes

and you need jaw implants not advancement

i'd suggest you genio + jaw fillers / implants

 

[noprogressno]

Coceancig suggested a 2cm bimax for your face?!!???!!!
Damn... he would have suggested me a meter of bimax if he saw my face then...

 

[Deleted member 16501]

You don't need bimax
An implant and genio should be enough for you

 

[Deleted member 16501]

I have seen good looking guys descend after bimax btw. Some blonde chadlite became mid tier normie from it

Don't get bimax

 

[valhalar]

Coceancig suggested a 2cm bimax for your face?!!???!!!
Damn... he would have suggested me a meter of bimax if he saw my face then...

I watched a video of him planning and he does like 2cm on everyone lmao. Sometimes 3 to 3.5. Crocodile maxed.

 

[ScramFranklin]

jesus. no, you don't need 2cm of bsso. i'd be curious what that looks like for someone with your "before" pics

I am way more recessed than you, my surgeon is thinking 8-10mm bsso. maybe i need to see conceancig lmao.

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Do you need infraorbital implants or undereye fillers ? Not really. You have a positive orbital vector, which means deep set eyeballs and decent infraorbital support. So the part where you morphed your undereyes is quite unneccessary.

This reference line indicates that your eyeball is nicely set in your eye sockets, pretty good infra support (could be better but eh).

Now, for bimax:

Paul Coceancig is literally insane if he wants to give 2cm advancement. Literal psychopath, I'm disappointed in him.
You have visible mouth protrusion, and your nose looks unideally shaped (but that's partly an optical illusion). I also see some errors with proportions.

Now, for mouth protrusion. Let's compare your side with justin bieber's.

Here's your Rickett's E-plane and Bieber's.

Yours looks like D, and Justin has B (there's a research paper abt this, basically B is considered ideal by most people).

You need to find the root cause. Why is your mouth seemingly protruding like this ?
It's hard to tell, but to know if it's caused by your chin/jaw lacking projection, you need place your head in natural position using the Frankfurt plane. I'm not an expert, but I will give you my opinion (based on intuition).
The chin must align with the browridge. If your chin exceeds that point, you have an anteface/anterior divergence, if your chin is set behind it, you have a retroface.
The thing is that the Frankfurt plane isn't always the best method, because ear shapes and positions vary. That's why only a surgeon/orthodontist can tell you exactly where you chin is supposed to be placed at. But anyways, This is imo, where your chin is supposed to be at.

This result matches your 1st morph. That means you're not crazy. So yep, it seems like you need to either advance your jaw and/or your chin. But definitely not by 2cm. The change should be minor, like a 6mm BSSO or genioplasty. And see how your mouth protrusion is instantly fixed when compared to the E-plane.

I measured your Philtrum: Chin, and it seems to be around 2.1. It's below average, your chin isn't tall enough. The ideal is between 2.3 and 2.6 from what I've seen. In the last morph, you increase it to 2.33-2.4, which is much better. Your BSSO/genio procedure would fix that.

Now, whether you need bimax or genio is another question. Since you have a normal occlusion, getting bimax will of course mean that your maxilla needs to be advanced. To know if it does, look at the position of your paranasal support and at your facial convexity angle (165-175 degrees ideal range, with 170 being the average for male models). I measured yours, and it's almost 180. It's too high, your nasal spine should be brought forward. That could indicate a need for bimax surgery.
Anyways, now your goal should be to try to determine if you need bimax or genio. Personally, using my own intuition, I'd say you need bimax (but a small advancement, like 6mm)

 

[valhalar]

Do you need infraorbital implants or undereye fillers ? Not really. You have a positive orbital vector, which means deep set eyeballs and decent infraorbital support. So the part where you morphed your undereyes is quite unneccessary.

View attachment 1615878
This reference line indicates that your eyeball is nicely set in your eye sockets, pretty good infra support (could be better but eh).

Now, for bimax:

Paul Coceancig is literally insane if he wants to give 2cm advancement. Literal psychopath, I'm disappointed in him.
You have visible mouth protrusion, and your nose looks unideally shaped (but that's partly an optical illusion). I also see some errors with proportions.

Now, for mouth protrusion. Let's compare your side with justin bieber's.

Here's your Rickett's E-plane and Bieber's.
View attachment 1615887View attachment 1615889
Yours looks like D, and Justin has B (there's a research paper abt this, basically B is considered ideal by most people).
View attachment 1615890
You need to find the root cause. Why is your mouth seemingly protruding like this ?
It's hard to tell, but to know if it's caused by your chin/jaw lacking projection, you need place your head in natural position using the Frankfurt plane. I'm not an expert, but I will give you my opinion (based on intuition).
The chin must align with the browridge. If your chin exceeds that point, you have an anteface/anterior divergence, if your chin is set behind it, you have a retroface.
The thing is that the Frankfurt plane isn't always the best method, because ear shapes and positions vary. That's why only a surgeon/orthodontist can tell you exactly where you chin is supposed to be placed at. But anyways, This is imo, where your chin is supposed to be at.

View attachment 1615904
View attachment 1615937
This result matches your 1st morph. That means you're not crazy. So yep, it seems like you need to either advance your jaw and/or your chin. But definitely not by 2cm. The change should be minor, like a 6mm BSSO or genioplasty. And see how your mouth protrusion is instantly fixed when compared to the E-plane.

I measured your Philtrum: Chin, and it seems to be around 2.1. It's below average, your chin isn't tall enough. The ideal is between 2.3 and 2.6 from what I've seen. In the last morph, you increase it to 2.33-2.4, which is much better. Your BSSO/genio procedure would fix that.

Now, whether you need bimax or genio is another question. Since you have a normal occlusion, getting bimax will of course mean that your maxilla needs to be advanced. To know if it does, look at the position of your paranasal support and at your facial convexity angle (165-175 degrees ideal range, with 170 being the average for male models). I measured yours, and it's almost 180. It's too high, your nasal spine should be brought forward. That could indicate a need for bimax surgery.
Anyways, now your goal should be to try to determine if you need bimax or genio. Personally, using my own intuition, I'd say you need bimax (but a small advancement, like 6mm)

Thanks for your write up, I have always had a good eye for proportions so it’s nice to see my falio lines up with the measurements.

As for the last paragraph re. bimax: bringing forward nasal spine would likely bring my whole nose tip forward a lot, no? That would mean rhino? Idk if it would be worth the risk but curious to know if there are ways around that. I think I’ll go ask some jaw surgeons in Italy what they think about genio versus bimax because they seem more conservative than Paul, but good eye for aesthetics.

Also curious to know what you think about nose as it stands. I agree there could be improvements, e.g. bringing nostrils down and perhaps slightly building up bridge 1mm or so.

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Thanks for your write up, I have always had a good eye for proportions so it’s nice to see my falio lines up with the measurements.

As for the last paragraph re. bimax: bringing forward nasal spine would likely bring my whole nose tip forward a lot, no? That would mean rhino? Idk if it would be worth the risk but curious to know if there are ways around that. I think I’ll go ask some jaw surgeons in Italy what they think about genio versus bimax because they seem more conservative than Paul, but good eye for aesthetics.

Also curious to know what you think about nose as it stands. I agree there could be improvements, e.g. bringing nostrils down and perhaps slightly building up bridge 1mm or so.

Mmm yeah you might be right. I'm not sure about how you must exactly address this issue. What I know is that you'd need to bring your nasal spine forward (this thing around the columella) without bringing your nose tip forward. Idk if it's possible, you'd have to research procedures involving the nasal spine and see what it does. There are paranasal/premaxillary implants but idk how it compares to bimax.
I agree with bulding up the bridge, definitely (by like 2mm). Your nostrils don't need to be touched and from the front, your nose is perfect.

 

[valhalar]

Mmm yeah you might be right. I'm not sure about how you must exactly address this issue. What I know is that you'd need to bring your nasal spine forward (this thing around the columella) without bringing your nose tip forward. Idk if it's possible, you'd have to research procedures involving the nasal spine and see what it does. There are paranasal/premaxillary implants but idk how it compares to bimax.
I agree with bulding up the bridge, definitely (by like 2mm). Your nostrils don't need to be touched and from the front, your nose is perfect.

What Le fort cut would move the paranasal area foward? I kinda agree. Prob won’t do it but lol curious to see

 

[Deleted member 5892]

What Le fort cut would move the paranasal area foward? I kinda agree. Prob won’t do it but lol curious to see

You can get it. I know someone (a normal guy, not even a looksmaxer) who got a high cut lefort.
View attachment gr1-253.webp
Type B and above move the paranasal area forward.

 

[poopmaster22]

Why he charge 80k?

 

[Anchor_Ship]

80k JFLLLLLLL LMAO