Orbital decompression - is the botch chance inflated?

[Oesteogenesis]

Most people who get orbital decompression usually have Graves’ disease which would cause the eyes to bulge out like crazy, cant this make the surgery significantly more difficult to do especially with the soft tissue and bone you have to get rid of since the amount is more within these patients with Graves’ disease, does that mean the likely hood on doing this on someone who mild or moderate bulging eyes due to e.g pheno or genetics make it so theres less of a botch rate since its 15-20%.

Only regular person ive seen take it snd get botched publicly is frank, although he did have 4 surgeries at the same time and his eye are was horrible before and arguably better now, only risks i feel that would apply for everyone is vision issues which just is a universal risk with this surgery like frank experienced.

Need high iq people who know alot about surgery on this

 

[habeebullah]

Most people who get orbital decompression usually have Graves’ disease which would cause the eyes to bulge out like crazy, cant this make the surgery significantly more difficult to do especially with the soft tissue and bone you have to get rid of since the amount is more within these patients with Graves’ disease, does that mean the likely hood on doing this on someone who mild or moderate bulging eyes due to e.g pheno or genetics make it so theres less of a botch rate since its 15-20%.

Only regular person ive seen take it snd get botched publicly is frank, although he did have 4 surgeries at the same time and his eye are was horrible before and arguably better now, only risks i feel that would apply for everyone is vision issues which just is a universal risk with this surgery like frank experienced.

Need high iq people who know alot about surgery on this

I thought he got botched from canthoplasty? Or am I tweaking

 

[Oesteogenesis]

I thought he got botched from canthoplasty? Or am I tweaking

No, orbital decompression was the main one that caused his vision and appearance issues, very dumb of him to get all 4 at once especially with the shitty base he has

 

[habeebullah]

Most people who get orbital decompression usually have Graves’ disease which would cause the eyes to bulge out like crazy, cant this make the surgery significantly more difficult to do especially with the soft tissue and bone you have to get rid of since the amount is more within these patients with Graves’ disease, does that mean the likely hood on doing this on someone who mild or moderate bulging eyes due to e.g pheno or genetics make it so theres less of a botch rate since its 15-20%.

Only regular person ive seen take it snd get botched publicly is frank, although he did have 4 surgeries at the same time and his eye are was horrible before and arguably better now, only risks i feel that would apply for everyone is vision issues which just is a universal risk with this surgery like frank experienced.

Need high iq people who know alot about surgery on this

Anyways to answer your question, Yeah, niggas with Graves' disease have to get a more aggressive decompression which is more difficult and comes with higher risks and complications than someone who just has moderately protruding eyes (bug eyes) and doesn't need as much of a decompression.

For mild/moderate bulging, fat-predominant or limited decompressions can have lower complication rates (around 2% which isn't too bad imo)

The 15–20% botch rate is not for all cases, just for ones for people with Graves' disease.

 

[dnrwarrior11]

it was just the amount of walls that get decompressed that can determine if u get botched or not. i believe frank got nearly all of them or all of them decompressed, so that is the reason why. if he had only gotten one his situation wouldve probably turned out a lot different.

 

[Oesteogenesis]

Anyways to answer your question, Yeah, niggas with Graves' disease have to get a more aggressive decompression which is more difficult and comes with higher risks and complications than someone who just has moderately protruding eyes (bug eyes) and doesn't need as much of a decompression.

For mild/moderate bulging, fat-predominant or limited decompressions can have lower complication rates (around 2% which isn't too bad imo)

The 15–20% botch rate is not for all cases, just for ones for people with Graves' disease.

Amazing high iq reply, do you have the source for the 2% complication rate on normal individuals?

 

[habeebullah]

Thanks bhai
Yeah here's the study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/417400

Just skip to the conclusion

Amazing high iq reply, do you have the source for the 2% complication rate on normal individuals?

 

[Oesteogenesis]

Thanks bhai
Yeah here's the study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/417400

Just skip to the conclusion

Bet thanks ill give it a read

 

[habeebullah]

Bet thanks ill give it a read

No problem I hope u find what you're looking for

 

[aids]

it was just the amount of walls that get decompressed that can determine if u get botched or not. i believe frank got nearly all of them or all of them decompressed, so that is the reason why. if he had only gotten one his situation wouldve probably turned out a lot different.

Rather he wanted infras, supras, and cantho at the same time.

 

[Eno]

most people without graves disease just need orbital implants, not orbital decompression

 

[habeebullah]

most people without graves disease just need orbital implants, not orbital decompression

What about for individuals who actually have prominent eyeballs? Like I for example have recessed infras and supras which exaggerates it, but my eyeball itself is more forward set than ideal.

 

[Eno]

What about for individuals who actually have prominent eyeballs? Like I for example have recessed infras and supras which exaggerates it, but my eyeball itself is more forward set than ideal.

show

 

[habeebullah]

show

 

[Eno]

u do not need orbital decompression

 

[nuisance]

because most nigas have weak orbitals, not bulging eyes as seen in garves

 

[Oesteogenesis]

Rather he wanted infras, supras, and cantho at the same time.

Probably the most retarded hardmaxxer ive ever seen


if he had enough flaws he wouldve done OBO and LF1 at the same time not caring about the risks

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

Most people who get orbital decompression usually have Graves’ disease which would cause the eyes to bulge out like crazy, cant this make the surgery significantly more difficult to do especially with the soft tissue and bone you have to get rid of since the amount is more within these patients with Graves’ disease, does that mean the likely hood on doing this on someone who mild or moderate bulging eyes due to e.g pheno or genetics make it so theres less of a botch rate since its 15-20%.

Only regular person ive seen take it snd get botched publicly is frank, although he did have 4 surgeries at the same time and his eye are was horrible before and arguably better now, only risks i feel that would apply for everyone is vision issues which just is a universal risk with this surgery like frank experienced.

Need high iq people who know alot about surgery on this

The reason Frank got botched was Taban’s unnecessarily aggressive orbital decompression on him. Taban did a three or two wall decompression on Frank, one of them being the medial wall. If the medial wall is excessively decompressed/shaven, the pupils inward due to the lack of support on the inner wall of the eye (the medial wall). My guess for why Taban decided a three wall decompression instead of one is because he wanted to upcharge Frank to get more money from him, or potentially because Frank said he wanted to get deep set eyes like a male model so Taban felt he had to take a more aggressive approach to achieve Franks desired result. Frank’s recent surgery involved placing implants on his decompressed medial wall which has basically restored his appearance back to how it used to be, maybe even making his eyes slightly better than what they were.

Honestly, Franks appearance being restored is lifefuel for anyone considering this surgery like me, because it suggests that even the worst botches like Franks can at least be aesthetically fixed (Frank claims he is in a lot of pain due to his initial procedure due to Taban, so being botched from OD could lead to life long pain if it is done absolutely horribly like Franks - however it’s noteworthy that Frank has a reputation for exaggerating and lying, check Frank Tufano subreddit for this)

Normally, for cosmetic cases, only one wall will be decompressed, as much less decompression is needed. I believe the statistic of orbital decompression having a “15-30% botch rate” comes from a study done surveying outcomes for 946 patients with Graves’ disease. For Graves’ disease patients, they require a lot more decompression, therefore more orbital walls will be decompressed/more decompression and the risks will be much higher than it would be for a cosmetic case. Another thing to note is that the study says orbital decompression has a complication rate of 10%. Complications aren’t necessarily botches.

Surgical complications in orbital decompression for Graves' orbitopathy - PMC

The objective of this study is to analyse the complications of orbital decompression in Graves' orbitopathy. The clinical records of 946 patients who had been operated on with orbital decompression for Graves' orbitopathy were reviewed and the ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From my understanding, a lateral wall decompression (single wall) is the safest way to go about orbital decompression for those with cosmetic bulging. This method of decompression carries the lowest risk according to the medical literature. The inferior wall and medial wall tend to come with higher risks.

Key point: Oculoplastic surgeons differ in terms of what their preferred approach to orbital decompression is. Some prefer decompressing the inferior wall (the floor)/medial/lateral. Personally, I would only go with a surgeon who uses the lateral wall approach for decompression, such as Dr Deepak Ramesh and Dr Raymond Douglas, due to the reason stated earlier of lowest documented risk. This doesn’t mean that if you get a single wall decompression which isn’t the lateral wall that you will necessarily get botched either, I’ve seen some decent results from guys who got just their medial wall decompressed. Dr Vrcek is a good oculoplastic surgeon who prefers the floor approach to decompression and I’ve seen good results from him also. But as I said, I personally would stick with someone who prefers to decompress the lateral wall due the stats in medical literature.

If anyone is considering this surgery, I would first get a Hertel Protrusion test to determine your level of protrusion. If your protrusion is beyond 21mm (the upper limit of the normal range) I would consider OD. If your protrusion is below this, infras and cantho might be a better option.

Results from orbital decompression can sometimes seem mediocre if either not enough decompression is done relative to the level of protrusion the person has or the other eyelid work that is usually done in conjunction with orbital decompression is not done so well (canthoplasty and lower eyelid retraction repair). However I’ve seen some great results from people who have very bulgy eyes, this one being an example:



One thing I’ve heard people complain about with orbital decompression is that it reduces PFL. I think this trade-off between protrusion and PFL is something you should take into account when considering the surgery. But for me personally, this trade-off isn’t as big of a deal as I think having a slightly shorter PFL but non bulging eyes is better than bulging eyes and long PFL.

 

[Oesteogenesis]

The reason Frank got botched was Taban’s unnecessarily aggressive orbital decompression on him. Taban did a three or two wall decompression on Frank, one of them being the medial wall. If the medial wall is excessively decompressed/shaven, the pupils inward due to the lack of support on the inner wall of the eye (the medial wall). My guess for why Taban decided a three wall decompression instead of one is because he wanted to upcharge Frank to get more money from him, or potentially because Frank said he wanted to get deep set eyes like a male model so Taban felt he had to take a more aggressive approach to achieve Franks desired result. Frank’s recent surgery involved placing implants on his decompressed medial wall which has basically restored his appearance back to how it used to be, maybe even making his eyes slightly better than what they were.

Honestly, Franks appearance being restored is lifefuel for anyone considering this surgery like me, because it suggests that even the worst botches like Franks can at least be aesthetically fixed (Frank claims he is in a lot of pain due to his initial procedure due to Taban, so being botched from OD could lead to life long pain if it is done absolutely horribly like Franks - however it’s noteworthy that Frank has a reputation for exaggerating and lying, check Frank Tufano subreddit for this)

Normally, for cosmetic cases, only one wall will be decompressed, as much less decompression is needed. I believe the statistic of orbital decompression having a “15-30% botch rate” comes from a study done surveying outcomes for 946 patients with Graves’ disease. For Graves’ disease patients, they require a lot more decompression, therefore more orbital walls will be decompressed/more decompression and the risks will be much higher than it would be for a cosmetic case. Another thing to note is that the study says orbital decompression has a complication rate of 10%. Complications aren’t necessarily botches.

Surgical complications in orbital decompression for Graves' orbitopathy - PMC

The objective of this study is to analyse the complications of orbital decompression in Graves' orbitopathy. The clinical records of 946 patients who had been operated on with orbital decompression for Graves' orbitopathy were reviewed and the ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From my understanding, a lateral wall decompression (single wall) is the safest way to go about orbital decompression for those with cosmetic bulging. This method of decompression carries the lowest risk according to the medical literature. The inferior wall and medial wall tend to come with higher risks.

Key point: Oculoplastic surgeons differ in terms of what their preferred approach to orbital decompression is. Some prefer decompressing the inferior wall (the floor)/medial/lateral. Personally, I would only go with a surgeon who uses the lateral wall approach for decompression, such as Dr Deepak Ramesh and Dr Raymond Douglas, due to the reason stated earlier of lowest documented risk. This doesn’t mean that if you get a single wall decompression which isn’t the lateral wall that you will necessarily get botched either, I’ve seen some decent results from guys who got just their medial wall decompressed. Dr Vrcek is a good oculoplastic surgeon who prefers the floor approach to decompression and I’ve seen good results from him also. But as I said, I personally would stick with someone who prefers to decompress the lateral wall due the stats in medical literature.

If anyone is considering this surgery, I would first get a Hertel Protrusion test to determine your level of protrusion. If your protrusion is beyond 21mm (the upper limit of the normal range) I would consider OD. If your protrusion is below this, infras and cantho might be a better option.

Results from orbital decompression can sometimes seem mediocre if either not enough decompression is done relative to the level of protrusion the person has or the other eyelid work that is usually done in conjunction with orbital decompression is not done so well (canthoplasty and lower eyelid retraction repair). However I’ve seen some great results from people who have very bulgy eyes, this one being an example:



One thing I’ve heard people complain about with orbital decompression is that it reduces PFL. I think this trade-off between protrusion and PFL is something you should take into account when considering the surgery. But for me personally, this trade-off isn’t as big of a deal as I think having a slightly shorter PFL but non bulging eyes is better than bulging eyes and long PFL.

Wow this is extremely high IQ thank you every word read

Pretty sure this is more common with south asian phenotypes aswell (me) so im looking forward to considering this in the future, its just worsened by my recessed infras and also nose bridge too.


Ill get a Hertel protrusion test whenever i do decide to pursue OD but this is very useful information ty.

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

Wow this is extremely high IQ thank you every word read

Pretty sure this is more common with south asian phenotypes aswell (me) so im looking forward to considering this in the future, its just worsened by my recessed infras and also nose bridge too.


Ill get a Hertel protrusion test whenever i do decide to pursue OD but this is very useful information ty.

No worries bro i’m in the same boat, if there’s any surgeon i’d recommend most for the procedure it’d be Dr Raymond Douglas. He’s well renowned for being an expert/specialist in Graves’ disease and orbital decompression in general and he does OD for cosmetic cases as well. He even operated on Frank after he got botched to try and restore his appearance.

Another highly recommended surgeon would be Dr Tomoyuki Kashima from Japan, who I think was the one who fixed Franks eyes fully in two very complex surgeries (but not sure if it was him)