@𝗣𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗰𝗲𝗟𝘂𝗲𝗻𝗟𝗲𝗼𝗻𝗰𝘂𝗿 𝗰𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘄𝗵𝘆 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗶𝘀 𝗼𝗯𝗷𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲❗ 𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲𝗹𝘀 𝗚𝗧𝗙𝗜𝗛

[Klasik616]

I said that morality is subjective because it's based on feelings and emotions humans have and act according to those, which transforms the subjective morality to a morality of community. But @PrinceLuenLeoncur says that morality trascends space and time, morality is not in this world but "probably in God's sky" and that makes it objective but he never proved how God exists and more importantly why morals are not human made.

Post in thread '𝑬𝑵𝑫𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑻𝑯𝑬 𝑴𝑶𝑹𝑨𝑳𝑰𝑻𝒀 𝑫𝑬𝑩𝑨𝑻𝑬 𝑰𝑵 𝑶𝑭𝑭𝑻𝑶𝑷𝑰𝑪' https://looksmax.org/threads/ending-the-morality-debate-in-offtopic.1228566/post-18489460
Here is the debate
@King Solomon

 

[Klasik616]

Muh morality is universal because God exists, where?

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

I said that morality is subjective because it's based on feelings and emotions humans have and act according to those, which transforms the subjective morality to a morality of community. But @PrinceLuenLeoncur says that morality trascends space and time, morality is not in this world but "probably in God's sky" and that makes it objective but he never proved how God exists and more importantly why morals are not human made.

Post in thread '𝑬𝑵𝑫𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑻𝑯𝑬 𝑴𝑶𝑹𝑨𝑳𝑰𝑻𝒀 𝑫𝑬𝑩𝑨𝑻𝑬 𝑰𝑵 𝑶𝑭𝑭𝑻𝑶𝑷𝑰𝑪' https://looksmax.org/threads/ending-the-morality-debate-in-offtopic.1228566/post-18489460
Here is the debate

Depends on how you define it.

I define 'morality' as ideals, ethics, values, etc, that promote the progression of a species w/o any form of degeneracy/ruin. Emotions within morals are disregarded as emotions are without thought/rational thinking blah blah blah
i.e. Everyone sharing resources with/ each other, no stealing, etc

If you look at it this way, morality can be objective. And if you apply to this to Biblical rules, you can understand why certain endeavors are condemned by God, and question such rules better (e.g. The bible was created by a source with knowledge far better than our own (God), & God says don't murder. If everyone in the world stopped murdering, would humanity progress altogether?)

and Lol at having genuine arguments with the "Christians" (PrinceLuen, KingSolomon, etc) on this site, they're all worldly/lukewarm and going to Hell, far away from the God they claim they follow accordingly. Unless they change, of course...

 

[Klasik616]

Depends on how you define it.

I define 'morality' as ideals, ethics, values, etc, that promote the progression of a species w/o any form of degeneracy/ruin. Emotions within morals are disregarded as emotions are without thought/rational thinking blah blah blah
i.e. Everyone sharing resources with/ each other, no stealing, etc

If you look at it this way, morality can be objective. And if you apply to this to Biblical rules, you can understand why certain endeavors are condemned by God, and question such rules better (e.g. The bible was created by a source with knowledge far better than our own (God), & God says don't murder. If everyone in the world stopped murdering, would humanity progress altogether?)

and Lol at having genuine arguments with the "Christians" (PrinceLuen, KingSolomon, etc) on this site, they're all worldly/lukewarm and going to Hell, far away from the God they claim they follow accordingly. Unless they change, of course...

I cannot understand how someone would say morals are not correlated to the world we are seeing. If moral principles are in other realm how are we following those principles somehow. But there's no such thing as an authority who determines what's good or bad, not society, not government, not religion. The reason for this is because religion has made humans incapable of recognizing their own desires, they have to submit to an authority telling them what to do. Whatever you do, you do it for needs and these needs are not rational. Principles are not natural, emotions are. Humans act based on emotions too and what they think is often right is based on certain emotions like happiness. They agree on things because they have empathy. And so many examples... Other users like @HarrierDuBois I think he doesn't believe in morality, what do you think about a morality based on emotions only?

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

If moral principles are in other realm how are we following those principles somehow.

Lmao, who said they were in another realm? The Bible? Please give a verse if I'm being silly. + We AREN'T following these 'principles.' Our emotions, derived from one's ego caused us to disregard morals given by The Source (God). This is explained in the story of Adam and Eve, I believe I made a post on it too.

But there's no such thing as an authority who determines what's good or bad, not society, not government, not religion.

Yes, there is. Humans by themselves are not able to make just values as they'll clash with another's and propagate violence. It needs to be determined by an authority that has the knowledge to consider/prioritize others' lives over their own (i.e governments, kings, Gods, etc). Are you an anarchist or something?

The reason for this is because religion has made humans incapable of recognizing their own desires, they have to submit to an authority telling them what to do.

Nope. Referring to the story of Adam and Eve, Humans have always been capable of recognizing their desires. Adam and Eve ate the apple as they desired to be better than God, despite having EVERYTHING Earth could provide & only being instructed to be loyal to God (and look what happened, pure terror to the human race).

If the Bible made us incapable of recognizing our desires, there would be no free will, making the world a better place funnily enough

Your problem is that you think compliance is bad, which is why you're so stuck on "Nobody can truly determine what "Good & Bad." and "There is no authority" ramble. Like a stubborn, rebellious child.

Whatever you do, you do it for needs and these needs are not rational. Principles are not natural, emotions are. Humans act based on emotions too and what they think is often right is based on certain emotions like happiness.

& Notice how the world has gone to shit since... forever? Emotions are indeed natural, which is why violence emerges. This is why God gave us principles, law, and more to avoid degeneracy

And what are you talking about we do it for needs and these needs are w/o reason? Please explain, I'm lost

Humans act based on emotions too and what they think is often right is based on certain emotions like happiness.

Yes, we act on our ego because all species prioritize their pleasure w/o consideration of the collateral pain it may cause. This is not the way we should go about things.


Your argument seems juvenile and silly... Please enlighten me if I'm mistaking anything

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

I said that morality is subjective because it's based on feelings and emotions humans have and act according to those, which transforms the subjective morality to a morality of community. But @PrinceLuenLeoncur says that morality trascends space and time, morality is not in this world but "probably in God's sky" and that makes it objective but he never proved how God exists and more importantly why morals are not human made.

Post in thread '𝑬𝑵𝑫𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑻𝑯𝑬 𝑴𝑶𝑹𝑨𝑳𝑰𝑻𝒀 𝑫𝑬𝑩𝑨𝑻𝑬 𝑰𝑵 𝑶𝑭𝑭𝑻𝑶𝑷𝑰𝑪' https://looksmax.org/threads/ending-the-morality-debate-in-offtopic.1228566/post-18489460
Here is the debate
@King Solomon

Not what I said at all

I said you cannot “grab” you can’t “tell” or “show” me where or what ethics is, how do you even justify something which your own paradigm denies? Ethics literally cannot exist in your paradigm neither can logic or epistemology for neither are justified by materialism and natural law. The fire they must be transcendentals which means they are grounded outside of something like materialism.

But what ? Well we don’t know, I say it’s god because logically the only way transcendentals can interact with one another and our universe, it requires a personal mind to do so, a mind from an being that is beyond these things aka an as the necessary precondition.



If not then I ask you to answer the following:

How do you justify the existence of universal, abstract principles like logic and truth in a materialistic framework?

If truth is simply a product of the human brain or societal consensus, how can it be objective or universal?

Can atheism account for the immaterial, invariant, and universal nature of logical laws if so how?

@Thebuffdon @PsychoH lewrn how to bully these niggaz

TLDR
Premise 1: Logic, morality, and truth are necessary for rational discourse.


Premise 2: These concepts require a transcendent source to exist objectively.


Conclusion: Therefore, God must exist to account for these preconditions.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Depends on how you define it.

I define 'morality' as ideals, ethics, values, etc, that promote the progression of a species w/o any form of degeneracy/ruin. Emotions within morals are disregarded as emotions are without thought/rational thinking blah blah blah
i.e. Everyone sharing resources with/ each other, no stealing, etc

If you look at it this way, morality can be objective. And if you apply to this to Biblical rules, you can understand why certain endeavors are condemned by God, and question such rules better (e.g. The bible was created by a source with knowledge far better than our own (God), & God says don't murder. If everyone in the world stopped murdering, would humanity progress altogether?)

and Lol at having genuine arguments with the "Christians" (PrinceLuen, KingSolomon, etc) on this site, they're all worldly/lukewarm and going to Hell, far away from the God they claim they follow accordingly. Unless they change, of course...

Imagine condemning people to hell when you know nothing about me or my life nor my beliefs . You have 0 place to condem or judge me, you are not a spiritual teacher or clergymen nor are you God you are some pompous arrogant GAYtheist or heathen I bet your some evangelical retarded protescuck idiot you know nothing of Christianity the saints and apostles how many books on the church fathers have you read? None then Keep your mouth shut, “luke warm” unlike the faggots where you live I actually practice my religion daily and pray daily stfu you stupid bitch

 

[ThunderPenis4503003]

Dnr because of lugi pfp he's a htn killer nothing special just media halo

 

[Klasik616]

Not what I said at all

I said you cannot “grab” you can’t “tell” or “show” me where or what ethics is, how do you even justify something which your own paradigm denies? Ethics literally cannot exist in your paradigm neither can logic or epistemology for neither are justified by materialism and natural law. The fire they must be transcendentals which means they are grounded outside of something like materialism.

But what ? Well we don’t know, I say it’s god because logically the only way transcendentals can interact with one another and our universe, it requires a personal mind to do so, a mind from an being that is beyond these things aka an as the necessary precondition.



If not then I ask you to answer the following:

How do you justify the existence of universal, abstract principles like logic and truth in a materialistic framework?

If truth is simply a product of the human brain or societal consensus, how can it be objective or universal?

Can atheism account for the immaterial, invariant, and universal nature of logical laws if so how?

@Thebuffdon @PsychoH lewrn how to bully these niggaz

TLDR
Premise 1: Logic, morality, and truth are necessary for rational discourse.


Premise 2: These concepts require a transcendent source to exist objectively.


Conclusion: Therefore, God must exist to account for these preconditions.

Oh again you didn't prove a thing about why ethics have to be related to a God. My paradigm just denies that ethics have something to do with truth, which I explained in my OG thread about morality. Epistemology helps us to define beings, not to act on them or change them. You guys call materialism everything. Truth is the correlation between the object of thought (what is meant by me) and it's self evidence. When I say this is not incel.is I'm saying the truth, how? Looks at the search bar and see the link. When we define beings, where do we exactly discover morality. Moral arguments don't change a thing about objects, just because I say this situation is bad or good doesn't change the situation. As morality doesn't have anything to do with the truth, thoughts or concepts around the world I think they are based on feelings only. Morality is not something we can discuss. There are no such thing as trascendentals either.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Oh again you didn't prove a thing about why ethics have to be related to a God. My paradigm just denies that ethics have something to do with truth, which I explained in my OG thread about morality. Epistemology helps us to define beings, not to act on them or change them. You guys call materialism everything. Truth is the correlation between the object of thought (what is meant by me) and it's self evidence. When I say this is not incel.is I'm saying the truth, how? Looks at the search bar and see the link. When we define beings, where do we exactly discover morality. Moral arguments don't change a thing about objects, just because I say this situation is bad or good doesn't change the situation. As morality doesn't have anything to do with the truth, thoughts or concepts around the world humans I think they are based on feelings only. Morality is not something we can discuss. Authors like Wittgenstein prove how some discourse topics cannot be truth or false, like metaphysics debates.

Therefore argumentation breaks down for argument is useless ultimately without an epistemic justification for your paradigm it’s al useless and everybody is at an impasse.

So why are you even speaking about “ethics” you can’t even justify or explain what it is where it is and why it is beyond human convention which according to you and every epistemology are just varaiables dependant on the human evolutionary process which as we know exists for survival not to discern truth from falsehoods how do you even know the “truth” when as Rene Descartes said “our experiences Could just be mental phantasms”’ and you have no way to even prove this as human observations can be false so you can’t trust human reason to deduce truth from falsehoods destoying not only your argument but the axioms it is built upon

Nice try you have it a go, but like Muslims you Gaytheists crumble at the mention of philosophy

 

[Klasik616]

Lmao, who said they were in another realm? The Bible? Please give a verse if I'm being silly. + We AREN'T following these 'principles.' Our emotions, derived from one's ego caused us to disregard morals given by The Source (God). This is explained in the story of Adam and Eve, I believe I made a post on it too.

Yes, there is. Humans by themselves are not able to make just values as they'll clash with another's and propagate violence. It needs to be determined by an authority that has the knowledge to consider/prioritize others' lives over their own (i.e governments, kings, Gods, etc). Are you an anarchist or something?

Nope. Referring to the story of Adam and Eve, Humans have always been capable of recognizing their desires. Adam and Eve ate the apple as they desired to be better than God, despite having EVERYTHING Earth could provide & only being instructed to be loyal to God (and look what happened, pure terror to the human race).

If the Bible made us incapable of recognizing our desires, there would be no free will, making the world a better place funnily enough

Your problem is that you think compliance is bad, which is why you're so stuck on "Nobody can truly determine what "Good & Bad." and "There is no authority" ramble. Like a stubborn, rebellious child.


& Notice how the world has gone to shit since... forever? Emotions are indeed natural, which is why violence emerges. This is why God gave us principles, law, and more to avoid degeneracy

And what are you talking about we do it for needs and these needs are w/o reason? Please explain, I'm lost


Yes, we act on our ego because all species prioritize their pleasure w/o consideration of the collateral pain it may cause. This is not the way we should go about things.


Your argument seems juvenile and silly... Please enlighten me if I'm mistaking anything

Thanks for asking, I'm an anarcho libertarian more in the right than the left. If you cannot justify God, then you also cannot justify your so claimed principles that come from a book. The kind of morality I'm proposing is not explained by any "guide" to live because there isn't. Yea I can act selfish but I also can act with empathy and solidarity, the thing is to follow our emotions. If emotions are bad but God creates them, why do they exist for? Do we have to get rid of them to obey some authority (that doesn't even exist).

@PrinceLuenLeoncur
The truth is not something that doesn't change, the truth is simply a psychological state where the subject thinks things are in order. When something is false anybody will try to fix the problem and find the right answer, the answer that they're looking for and it's in their mind. Evidence has to be obvious.

For christiancels without the bible there's no truth or morality.

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

Imagine condemning people to hell when you know nothing about me or my life nor my beliefs . You have 0 place to condem or judge me, you are not a spiritual teacher or clergymen nor are you God you are some pompous arrogant GAYtheist or heathen I bet your some evangelical retarded protescuck idiot you know nothing of Christianity the saints and apostles how many books on the church fathers have you read? None then Keep your mouth shut, “luke warm” unlike the faggots where you live I actually practice my religion daily and pray daily stfu you stupid bitch

Cussing up a storm like the good Christian you are... You speak like a fool and somehow you're the #1 Apologist on the retarded forum along with white supremacist KingSolomon? I hold nothing against you, but come on

Apologies if you think I've condemned you to Separation for God, I can't do that ofc. But the odds are not in your favor unless you run a persona on this site. I hope you change nonetheless.

and I'm not an atheist or heathen. I'm a Lutheran Christian.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Cussing up a storm like the good Christian you are... You speak like a fool and somehow you're the #1 Apologist on the retarded forum along with white supremacist KingSolomon? I hold nothing against you, but come on

Apologies if you think I've condemned you to Separation for God, I can't do that ofc. But the odds are not in your favor unless you run a persona on this site. I hope you change nonetheless.

and I'm not an atheist or heathen. I'm a Lutheran Christian.

Ah so you’re a heretic and now your taking the role of god to say who goes to heaven and hell like the good little protescuck you are daily reminder your cult is only 500 years old it’s the ultimate heresy which leads to confusion and enjoy your female pastors lol

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

Thanks for asking, I'm an anarcho libertarian more in the right than the left. If you cannot justify God, then you also cannot justify your so claimed principles that come from a book. The kind of morality I'm proposing is not explained by any "guide" to live because there isn't. Yea I can act selfish but I also can act with empathy and solidarity, the thing is to follow our emotions. If emotions are bad but God creates them, why do they exist for? Do we have to get rid of them to obey some authority (that doesn't even exist).

Having brain fart rn will respond later in the afternoon

and what do you mean by justifying God

 

[liberiangrimreaper]

Ah so you’re a heretic and now your taking the role of god to say who goes to heaven and hell like the good little protescuck you are daily reminder your cult is only 500 years old it’s the ultimate heresy which leads to confusion and enjoy your female pastors lol

You're Catholic? I've never had a female pastor either.

Also, my point still stands. You're a terrible representative of an "Apologist" on this site.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Thanks for asking, I'm an anarcho libertarian more in the right than the left. If you cannot justify God, then you also cannot justify your so claimed principles that come from a book. The kind of morality I'm proposing is not explained by any "guide" to live because there isn't. Yea I can act selfish but I also can act with empathy and solidarity, the thing is to follow our emotions. If emotions are bad but God creates them, why do they exist for? Do we have to get rid of them to obey some authority (that doesn't even exist).

@PrinceLuenLeoncur
The truth is not something that doesn't change, the truth is simply a psychological state where the subject thinks things are in order. When something is false anybody will try to fix the problem and find the right answer, the answer that they're looking for and it's in their mind. Evidence has to be obvious.

For christiancels without the bible there's no truth or morality.

My Christian belief isn’t encumbered on the bible im not a Protestant like that faggot @liberiangrimreaper who probably goes to church once a year doesn’t ever fast and thinks Christmas is a done day event but yet I’m the Luke warm one lol. And no IM NOT CATHOLIC I’m something older and more ancient than them I’m the father of Catholics the same way Catholics are the daddy to your protescuck. I’m the best apologist on this site there a reason atheists as Muslims come to me for advice on our region and why nobody goes to you or Solomon all Christian’s here know I’m the champion of the faith here

No my belief is due to the impossibility of the contrary and the only lol isl discourse is that the god of Christianity is the only true god and I know this because I believe in the tradition of the church and apostles which the bible is based off as an attestation to these beliefs. Philosophically as well Christianity has stood the test of time and been irrefutable why would I be one?

What you said about “truth” in your last sentence has essentially done what I said you’d do which is associate truth with human opinion the fire subjectivity therefore it’s not “truth” .


I don’t need the bible to have moral truth for right and wrong are written on our hearts. As I said I’m not a Protestant so these rebuttals don’t work on me I’m not @liberiangrimreaper . Anyways you have no justification for ethics may as welll just say “I believe in what I want because it is”

You can’t tell anybody why I or they OUGHT to take your view or agree with you for you cannot explain why it is

 

[Klasik616]

My Christian belief isn’t encumbered on the bible im not a Protestant like that faggot @liberiangrimreaper who probably goes to church once a year doesn’t ever fast and thinks Christmas is a done day event but yet I’m the Luke warm one lol. And no IM NOT CATHOLIC I’m something older and more ancient than them I’m the father of Catholics the same way Catholics are the daddy to your protescuck. I’m the best apologist on this site there a reason atheists as Muslims come to me for advice on our region and why nobody goes to you or Solomon all Christian’s here know I’m the champion of the faith here

No my belief is due to the impossibility of the contrary and the only lol isl discourse is that the god of Christianity is the only true god and I know this because I believe in the tradition of the church and apostles which the bible is based off as an attestation to these beliefs. Philosophically as well Christianity has stood the test of time and been irrefutable why would I be one?

What you said about “truth” in your last sentence has essentially done what I said you’d do which is associate truth with human opinion the fire subjectivity therefore it’s not “truth” .


I don’t need the bible to have moral truth for right and wrong are written on our hearts. As I said I’m not a Protestant so these rebuttals don’t work on me I’m not @liberiangrimreaper . Anyways you have no justification for ethics may as welll just say “I believe in what I want because it is”

You can’t tell anybody why I or they OUGHT to take your view or agree with you for you cannot explain why it is

 

[Alucard69]

Are looks objective mostly?

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

View attachment 3385281

Doesn’t do anything for your point… as I said David the fat chode he was would and had openly admitted he has no justification for anything he simply accepts it for what it IS but cannot explain or justify WHY and the OUGHT

 

[Klasik616]

@holy

 

[holy]

I have no fucking idea why you tagged me in this, but I guess I'll just respond to this specific argument you made:

"I said that morality is subjective because it's based on feelings and emotions humans have and act according to those, which transforms the subjective morality to a morality of community"

Just by the looks of this argument, I can already tell it's the kind of shallow bullshit that sounds deep to college freshmen who just discovered weed + you're completely full of shit.

1. You're confusing HOW we discover moral truths with WHETHER they exist.

That's like saying "math is subjective because we feel 2+2=4." No, dipshit. We might USE emotions and intuition to recognize truth, but that doesn't make truth subjective.
When you see someone torturing a baby for fun, your gut tells you it's wrong because it IS wrong, not because your feelings make it wrong.

2. Your argument destroys itself.

If morality is "just feelings," then your claim that "morality is subjective" is also just your feelings.
So, why the fuck should anyone care what you think?
You've just turned your whole position into "trust me bro, I feel morality is subjective." -
Great philosophical contribution there, Socrates.

3. "Community morality"

That's nonsense.

Explain why every human society in history has developed similar basic moral principles.

- Murder
- Theft
- Lying
- Protecting children

These show up EVERYWHERE. But according to your galaxy brain take, it's all just random feelings?
Bullshit. We're discovering real moral truth, not making it up like your kindergarten philosophy suggests.

4. What really exposes your intellectual bankruptcy is that: You don't actually believe or live by this shit.

You operate on objective moral assumptions every day. Unless you're a complete psychopath, you think torturing babies for fun is WRONG - not "wrong for me" or "wrong in my community," but actually, objectively wrong. Your actions betray your bullshit philosophy.

5. And if you're right, then we can't say:

- Slavery was wrong
- The Holocaust was evil.

In fact, we can't claim ANY moral progress because there's no "better" - just different feelings.
Is that really the hill you want to die on? Really?

Please don't tag me in a shitty philosophical argument that doesn't think beyond "feelings make things real."

 

[2025cel]

Meh This thread is filled with homo islamic radicalist sympathisers especially that kang guy. No point in arguing with these people.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Meh This thread is filled with homo islamic radicalist sympathisers especially that kang guy. No point in arguing with these people.

You better not be referring to me. I’m not an Islamic sympatiser ask any Muslim here I attack Islam quite brutally everyday on this site you must not know me or must be new here

 

[2025cel]

You better not be referring to me. I’m not an Islamic sympatiser ask any Muslim here I attack Islam quite brutally everyday on this site you must not know me or must be new here

Well K then, I just saw a post where you were arguing with @KingSolomon guy about islam and thought you support islam, If you don't support islam then, Well that's good!

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Well K then, I just saw a post where you were arguing with @KingSolomon guy about islam and thought you support islam, If you don't support islam then, Well that's good!

Of course not ahaha as I said read any of my threads https://looksmax.org/posts/18569337/

This was from yesterday watch how many Mohammedens I have chomping out because I slaughtered their religion they were crying cos I was rude to their god and prophet but ofc I am gonna be rude when they are rude to me