Puberty like forward Lefort I changes with HGH + MARPE (AFTER PUBERTY)

[goinflamz]

According to expert airway ortho Dr. Kimberly Santiago, Marpe gives us Lefort 1 changes in terms of skeletal effect. With MARPE every suture in the mid face will loosen and be pliable including the targo maxillary which is located at the end of ur maxilla before the sphenoid and no other type if expander or sarpe does that. Meaning that not only can we get better dimensions transversally (width) we can drag the maxilla forward with devices like the face mask (proven to work in adults after puberty).

Here comes my theory. As we all know during puberty our maxilla is still pliable and prone to growth with or without exogenous hormones like HGH. So I wonder if after the marpe gets installed and after the loosening occurs (probably when the sutures split) and we introduce exogenous hormones like HGH or test with correct head and tongue posture would we see forward maxillary growth? Or would the HGH interfere with the loose sutures and close / make them more dense?

I am getting Marpe installed this week or the next. I am 19 years old and i am willing to test this theory out myself with scans and everything but I need to know if the HGH would interfere with the marpe. My protocol would be the following,6-8IU daily hgh with calcium, k2,d3 and other regular supplements.

I would like to hear your inputs!!!!!


Source:

 

[goinflamz]

CHAT GPT’s INPUT kinda bursts my bubble lol



Your Theory Summarized


You’re proposing:

1. MARPE loosens all midface sutures, including the pterygomaxillary region.
2. Once loosened, the maxilla becomes more “growth-ready,” similar to puberty.
3. If you then add exogenous HGH or testosterone, with good tongue posture and orthopedic forces, you might trigger forward maxillary growth.
4. You’re asking whether HGH would:
   • enhance forward growth
   • or interfere by causing sutures to densify/close prematurely

REALITY CHECK (No BS)


1. MARPE does NOT make the midface behave like puberty.

Yes, MARPE loosens sutures — temporarily.


Yes, it increases plasticity.


Yes, it allows orthopedic forces (like facemask) to pull the maxilla forward more effectively even in adults.


BUT…


The loosening is mechanical, not hormonal.

It does not reopen the adolescent growth plates nor restart developmental



So the midface becomes pliable — but NOT “growth responsive” the way it was at 12–15 years old.



2. HGH causes growth plate activation ONLY in bones with open plates.



HGH stimulates:

• cartilage
• epiphyseal plates
• soft tissue
• bone turnover
• IGF-1 pathways

However: the maxilla is NOT a long bone.


It does not grow through growth plates.


It grows via sutural deposition, which is mostly controlled by genetics + mechanical forces, not hormones.

So HGH cannot restart maxillary growth the way it lengthens femurs or tibias


It can increase:

• soft tissue fullness
• water retention
• sinus mucosa thickness

But NOT forward skeletal growth in the midface.


3. Will HGH interfere with MARPE sutures?


Very unlikely.


HGH increases:

• bone turnover
• collagen formation
• healing rate

But it’s NOT known to prematurely “densify” loosened sutures

If anything:

• it may increase bone remodeling
• but the sutural separation created by MARPE will still close normally whether you take HGH or not

So HGH won’t ruin your MARPE.


But it also won’t enhance mechanical skeletal forward growth




4. Can HGH + tongue posture + MARPE = forward maxillary growth?

No — not in the way you’re thinking.


Reasons:

• The maxilla doesn’t grow via hormonal plates
• Sutures don’t “regrow” forward
• MARPE opens sutures only sideways, not forward
• Forward movement requires external force (facemask, bone anchors)
• Hormones don’t determine forward development — mechanical vector does

HGH won’t:

• push your maxilla forward
• stimulate new bone to grow in the forward direction
• recreate puberty-like growth zones

It just makes tissues regenerate faster.

 

[MindOfBeni]

Tell me the resoults

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Marpe gives us Lefort 1 changes

No. But it can give very minimal LF3 changes.

Apparently with FMA you can get quite a few millimeters. Some guy got what "seems to be 6-8mm of advancement" according to Dr. Manuele.

face mask (proven to work in adults after puberty)

It's around ~2kg which for most people isn't enough to do shit. If an adult gets results from it, it's probably no more than ~2mm. But then the question is, would that 2mm displacement have occurred with or without FM? Probably would've still occurred without, as that is a normal amount of forward displacement in MARPE treatments.

The circumaxillary sutures in adults need a lot more than 2kg to be influenced, even when they're "loosened" / "weakened".

 

[don187]

No. But it can give very minimal LF3 changes.

Apparently with FMA you can get quite a few millimeters. Some guy got what "seems to be 6-8mm of advancement" according to Dr. Manuele.


It's around ~2kg which for most people isn't enough to do shit. If an adult gets results from it, it's probably no more than ~2mm. But then the question is, would that 2mm displacement have occurred with or without FM? Probably would've still occurred without, as that is a normal amount of forward displacement in MARPE treatments.

The circumaxillary sutures in adults need a lot more than 2kg to be influenced, even when they're "loosened" / "weakened".

Wyd now that Dr jaffari said they are redoing FMA completely because it failed

Any diy setups to protract?

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Wyd now that Dr jaffari said they are redoing FMA completely because it failed

Any diy setups to protract?

Lefort, as always. Personally I was not planning on doing protraction anyway. lefort is safe enough for me.

Btw, where did Jaffari say this? Super interesting.