RU58841 for skin?

[insignia_]

In theory, shouldn’t RU58841 have positive effects on skin by blocking androgens locally?

Androgens can cause excess sebum, acne, enlarged pores, and a rougher skin appearance.

Couldn’t RU58841 be used to reverse, or at least improve, these issues? Which of these issues could be improved and to what extent?

I’m coping because I can’t get isotretinoin and I have to stick to topical tretinoin for better skin, but I’m wondering if my thought process here is correct or if it wouldn’t meaningfully change anything.

 

[Lucasegoliftson]

if u can source ru you'd be able to get isotret.

ru is intended for scalp use only, the skin on your scalp is much thicker then the skin on your face. this is an issue because it will cause a bigger risk of systemic absorption which defeats the local concept.

just use oral dut and you could consider topical clascoterone.

 

[ducksoover]

just use oral dut

do not use oral dut

dht is neuroprotective and blocking dht would cause cognitive decline

 

[insignia_]

if u can source ru you'd be able to get isotret.

ru is intended for scalp use only, the skin on your scalp is much thicker then the skin on your face. this is an issue because it will cause a bigger risk of systemic absorption which defeats the local concept.

just use oral dut and you could consider topical clascoterone.

Thanks for your reply

I understand. I will probably try to get accutane somewhat soon because my skin is really oily…

As for fin/dut, unfortunately I can’t use them yet because I’m still 17. Any clue what the minimum safe age is for finasteride? I’m starting to see quite a few signs that I have the genes for AGA, so I don’t want to take too long before I do something about it.

 

[insignia_]

do not use oral dut

dht is neuroprotective and blocking dht would cause cognitive decline

I hope they can eventually figure out an oral 5AR inhibitor that works only within hair follicles. I don’t think that’s possible at all yet, but hopefully they find something out in the future.

Applying topicals is time-consuming and annoying.

 

[Lucasegoliftson]

As for fin/dut, unfortunately I can’t use them yet because I’m still 17. Any clue what the minimum safe age is for finasteride? I’m starting to see quite a few signs that I have the genes for AGA, so I don’t want to take too long before I do something about it.

Id say u shouldn't touch dut or fin until you have finished developing properly/ finished puberty.

Also as for the reply above me, dht does play a role in neural signalling and development however there is 0 conclusive evidence that shows dut or fin causes cognitive decline in healthy adults.

 

[insignia_]

Id say u shouldn't touch dut or fin until you have finished developing properly/ finished puberty.

So, 19-20?

 

[ducksoover]

works only within hair follicles.

there is no such thing

just use topical 5ar inhibitors

 

[ducksoover]

Id say u shouldn't touch dut or fin until you have finished developing properly/ finished puberty.

Also as for the reply above me, dht does play a role in neural signalling and development however there is 0 conclusive evidence that shows dut or fin causes cognitive decline in healthy adults.

there's been links to 5AR inhibitor use and dementia.

use your brain for a second here,

dht is proven to be neuroprotective, blocking a neuroprotective hormone would then result in cognitive decline

 

[insignia_]

there is no such thing

just use topical 5ar inhibitors

I know, I said “I hope” but it’s just wishful thinking.

Might just baldmax if I have to apply topicals daily

 

[hej1377]

Yes, its amazing and often used for that as well as to avoid androgenic photoageing

Dissolve a lot in dmso and then mix with something more viscous like mct oil for slower absorbtion to avoid systemic absorbtion

Ike ish 80mct/20dmso with a total of 5% ru

 

[hej1377]

there's been links to 5AR inhibitor use and dementia.

use your brain for a second here,

dht is proven to be neuroprotective, blocking a neuroprotective hormone would then result in cognitive decline

Dht doesnt come close to the cogenitive benefits of estrogen and testosterone which you now will have slightly more of on dutasteride

 

[hej1377]

there is no such thing

just use topical 5ar inhibitors

Dut isnt nearly as effective topically and still noticably lower serum dht

Fin is so small that ut just goes systemic anyway

 

[ducksoover]

Dht doesnt come close to the cogenitive benefits of estrogen and testosterone which you now will have slightly more of on dutasteride

Comparison of neuroprotective effects of dihydrotestosterone, 17β-estradiol, and Pueraria mirifica herb extract on cognitive impairment in androgen deficient male rats

This study investigated the neuroprotective effects of dihydrotestosterone (DHT), 17β-estradiol (E2), and Pueraria mirifica herb extract (PME; an alte…

www.sciencedirect.com

you are incredibly ignorant and should be off this forum

even if e2 is more neuroprotective, so fucking what? why reduce neuroprotection at all?

 

[hej1377]

Comparison of neuroprotective effects of dihydrotestosterone, 17β-estradiol, and Pueraria mirifica herb extract on cognitive impairment in androgen deficient male rats

This study investigated the neuroprotective effects of dihydrotestosterone (DHT), 17β-estradiol (E2), and Pueraria mirifica herb extract (PME; an alte…

www.sciencedirect.com

you are incredibly ignorant and should be off this forum

even if e2 is more neuroprotective, so fucking what? why reduce neuroprotection at all?

First of all, the study is on rats which alongside every highly predated mamal has way more ar's in their brain due to having to mate so effectively, so cant be extrapolated to humans

The dosages were not at all fair, 1mg dht for 80mcg e2, not fair at all

It also onyl takes into account 17 beta estrodial and not 17 alpa estrodial for example and e1 and e3

Also e2 still evem with these unfair methods outperformed dht in synaptic plasticity in the hippocampus which for humans in todays society is by far the most important metric

Tau expression is way less relevant here as we already have very efficient and well functioning mitocondrias so the detriments dont happen. You should also be taking a bunch of mitocondrial drugs anyway to help them out

even if e2 is more neuroprotective, so fucking what? why reduce neuroprotection at all?

the point is that its not reduced, because less dht will cause more e2, so it compensates,it will also cause more testosterone

Also hair is life,balding is a death sentence and skin is status, wrinkles are social suicide so even if there were detriments theyd have to be pretty big to make dut not worth it

 

[ducksoover]

the point is that its not reduced, because less dht will cause more e2, so it compensates,it will also cause more testosterone

"compensates" LOL

that is not how neuroprotection works, there is not an unlimited threshold for neuroprotection where "more is better".

By blocking DHT, you REDUCE neuroprotection that DHT offers.

Neuroprotection is NOT a monolith where you can simply increase alternative neuroprotective hormones to compensate.

This is like me taking vitamin C after crashing my e2 to "compensate"

Different hormones have different roles in neuroprotection.

 

[hej1377]

that is not how neuroprotection works, there is not an unlimited threshold for neuroprotection where "more is better".

By blocking DHT, you REDUCE neuroprotection that DHT offers.

Thats why testosterone also was mentioned as that gives positive androgenic effects

And estrogens involvement is so major that there pretty much isnt any sense of neuroprotection that doesnt to some degree rely of estrogen.

Also i think the study you provided showed that dht actually isnt great for neuroprotection

You only responded to half a part so of course it was misinterpreted as it was only pretty much a sentence, dodged the rest

 

[hej1377]

"compensates" LOL

that is not how neuroprotection works, there is not an unlimited threshold for neuroprotection where "more is better".

By blocking DHT, you REDUCE neuroprotection that DHT offers.

Neuroprotection is NOT a monolith where you can simply increase alternative neuroprotective hormones to compensate.

This is like me taking vitamin C after crashing my e2 to "compensate"

Different hormones have different roles in neuroprotection.

Also ive many studies or papers on 5ar deficiencies and no neurological symptoms are mentioned. Indicating that if lack of dht even did anything it wasnt enough to even mention or more likely notice as they mention anything that could have the slightest significance. If dht was anywhere near as crucial as the rat study implies youd definitely notice. But its not because we are not nearly as reliant on androgens than rats or mice

 

[ducksoover]

Thats why testosterone also was mentioned as that gives positive androgenic effects

And estrogens involvement is so major that there pretty much isnt any sense of neuroprotection that doesnt to some degree rely of estrogen.

Also i think the study you provided showed that dht actually isnt great for neuroprotection

You only responded to half a part so of course it was misinterpreted as it was only pretty much a sentence, dodged the rest

This isn't about estrogen vs DHT. This is about blocking a neuroprotective hormone which would cause cognitive decline, there's even studies (though association) that have found links to 5AR inhibitors and dementia, which actually makes sense.

 

[ducksoover]

Also ive many studies or papers on 5ar deficiencies and no neurological symptoms are mentioned.

Show such studies.

Indicating that if lack of dht even did anything it wasnt enough to even mention

The lack of studies does not negate a hypothesis.

Here is my line of reasoning:

DHT is neuroprotective, blocking neuroprotective hormones would cause cognitive decline to some degree. This is very logical deductive reasoning.

Just because you don't notice something, does not mean it does not have a negative effect. Your lack of attention towards something does not clear any negative effects you may have.

Our bodies produce these hormones for a reason.

 

[hej1377]

The lack of studies does not negate a hypothesis.

Here is my line of reasoning:

DHT is neuroprotective, blocking neuroprotective hormones would cause cognitive decline to some degree. This is very logical deductive reasoning.

Just because you don't notice something, does not mean it does not have a negative effect. Your lack of attention towards something does not clear any negative effects you may have.

Its not like these people have just said how they feel and the researchers write it down. And my point wasnt that there was a lack of studies but lack of this reresultthe researchers look at as many apsects of these people as they can and havent noticed any cognetive effects clearly, if they noticed the slightest thing they Would look into it, research on the disease isnt just self reports

If youre gonna make the claim that dht is neuroprotective then provide the evidence for it and not a gige shitty study. It would also have to be more neuroprotective than test as thats what happens when you block 5ar, you get more test.

I mean hypogonadism and aromatase deficiencies give very easily noticable significant negative cognetive effects, weird how the same hasnt been found with 5ar deficiency, not saying this compketely disproves your claims but it does make them seem a hell of a lot less likely as the people wjos entire job is to find this type of stuff doesnt find it

Our bodies produce these hormones for a reason.

They make it cause they are easy to make and do the job well enough for the carriers not to die out. Not because theyre the primed androgens, there is pretty much nothing the human body does ideally, its just good enough

Show such studies.

I cannot show studies about something that has not been mentioned. Thats my entire point

This isn't about estrogen vs DHT. This is about blocking a neuroprotective hormone which would cause cognitive decline,

It does become dht vs E and dht vs T as less dht means more E and T

there's even studies (though association) that have found links to 5AR inhibitors and dementia, which actually makes sense.

Very weak evidence, not consisistent and this assosiation weaken the longer the study is

Could also easily be a selection bias as people that are willing to get medical help for hairloss or prostate issues are probably also more likely to check up other issues.

 

[ducksoover]

If youre gonna make the claim that dht is neuroprotective then provide the evidence for it

you think DHT is NOT neuroprotective? LOL

Dihydrotestosterone reduces neuroinflammation in spinal cord injury through NF-κB and MAPK pathway - PubMed

Neuroinflammation induced by microglia following spinal cord injury (SCI) leads to secondary neurologic injury. Androgens including testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) show as endogenous neuroprotective factors against multiple neurologic diseases, while their therapeutic role in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is proven to reduce neuroinflammation for neurological diseases.

And again, just because you don't know or have not seen the studies of something, that does not prove a negative. Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.

What I am saying is that blocking DHT would in theory cause some level of cognitive decline, that is a FAIR assumption based on the literature.

They make it cause they are easy to make and do the job well enough for the carriers not to die out.

Dude

We have evolved as a species for millions of years. Every mechanism in our body is there for a PURPOSE. This is called natural selection.

It does become dht vs E and dht vs T as less dht means more E and T

I'm gonna assume you're very young and don't know better

 

[hej1377]

you think DHT is NOT neuroprotective? LOL

Dihydrotestosterone reduces neuroinflammation in spinal cord injury through NF-κB and MAPK pathway - PubMed

Neuroinflammation induced by microglia following spinal cord injury (SCI) leads to secondary neurologic injury. Androgens including testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) show as endogenous neuroprotective factors against multiple neurologic diseases, while their therapeutic role in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is proven to reduce neuroinflammation for neurological diseases.

And again, just because you don't know or have not seen the studies of something, that does not prove a negative. Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You very conveniently skipped the part of the sentence that followed right after, also pretty shitty for the study not to show to whcih degree dht was able to do this as we dont know if its practically signifant for us

We also have the literature, all you have is a weak inconsistent link. The entire point is that it would be insane for us too just completeltly miss such a basic function in our bodies. Absense of the evidence makes it unreasonable to claim that it is the case, like you are. So its not fair at all to make that assumption especially when we have empirical evidence on the matter, maybe it would be reasonable if it was a new drug and you hsd to make guesses

Dude

We have evolved as a species for millions of years. Every mechanism in our body is there for a PURPOSE. This is called natural selection.

Yeah natural selection doesnt make us into a an amzing biologicwll machine it like i said makes us good enough to not die out. And a mechanism beinf there doesnt make it ideal from our perspective at all necessarily even if it was an advantage at one point

 

[ducksoover]

it was an advantage at one point

at one point? DHT is fucking important dude, holy shit.

It's insane to me how people see DHT as a trash hormone because their entire reasoing is "bald bad".

whatever dude, I don't care enough to die on this hill

 

[hej1377]

at one point? DHT is fucking important dude, holy shit.

It's insane to me how people see DHT as a trash hormone because their entire reasoing is "bald bad".

whatever dude, I don't care enough to die on this hill

You clearly missed the point, which is that just because or body does something doesnt mean that its advantageous, thats the entire reason for the medical industry existing. Your implication about it being inherently good becuase we have ut is a naturalistic fallacy. Your entire job here was showing how dht is important.

Alright, well if you dont back up your claims then dont make advise because of it, weather if it because you dont care or your unable to, you havent showed any great evidence yet so evidence or ldar