fvolkek
Diamond
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- Feb 19, 2021
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These are some random scattered thoughts i had today and i wanted to write them down and share here for you to read.
On frameworks, bogeymen and why people think certain ways ("pills")
Let's start with a basic question, what is an incel? There are two definitions being used, one is literally not being able to get laid, and the other is that + blaming women for it. Often entitled to it.
I disagree. I think the term evolved past that. For the sake of this thread I'll use incel as just being alienated from society due to looks – even if you have sex.
One can be alienated from society, in my opinion, due to various reasons. For example, the most known one, wealth, and you have insecurities with that. For instance, getting paid like shit in a mcdonalds and staying wageslaving but then you go out with your friends, you get one night stands, etc. You don't have an insecurity with the way you look. You don't feel like an abomination. That's not a variable in your mind. So you probably won't empathize with someone who struggles with that because you equate struggling with lacking money. So you think that's the problem, the pain in life. These people may more frequently become communists, because those ideas appeal to them. They get it. They know what it's like. You can reason all you'd like but the ideas click once you feel them. I'll get into this later on
Another example. You can have someone who is black and is alienated due to their race. So when they go outside the hood they feel the racism, how people passively avoid them, how many people deep inside have some form of mild disgust or uncomfortableness – and they pick up on that. How cops are more suspicious, etc. So their bogeyman is not "capitalism" like the wagie one but instead "racism". The economic and race problem does often overlap, but for the sake of the matter lets say its a well-off black person. They always feel that insecurity in how people treat them due to their race status when they go to the suburbs. That's their problem, and thus frameworks like "critical race theory" and such appeal to them. Especially black women. I mean black men tend to be more right-wing or care less about that shit because they are more often included, it's cool to be a black guy, it's badass these days. Being a black woman, unfortunately though, is the equivalent of indian men. They know they're usually ugly.
But let's talk about women. You may trivialize them all you'd like, but they have their problems. They get tons of attention every day 24/7 so that isn't really a variable to them. Looks are definitely a variable, but not the loneliness in the same way as men perhaps. So what is it? They have other variables. Paradigmatically, they go to work and are not taken that seriously, it's true. I mean I for one usually take men more seriously, you probably too. I don't really control this, it just happens. You can call it genetics, social construction or the typical "erm well actually men had to work harder so more often than not they will be better" or whatever 2016 anti-feminist ben shapiro argument. For whatever reason, we clearly don't take them that seriously at least in the beginning. The stigma exists. So, if the first person's bogeyman is capitalism, the second person's bogeyman is racism, what is the bogeyman for the third person? Patriarchy. So, once again, ideas that tackle this concept become personal to them, they feel it, the feminist authors get them, they know what it's like.
Think about it this way. You feel pain, discomfort or whatever due to something. Someone puts a word on that thing. You get it. You know they are right because in your mind you feel that. Your world is your mind after all. Our mind is a very complex continuum that processes – via both reason and spirit – the stimuli from life, and is outputted in the senses.
That's why you get what many people, dehumanizatively call "SJW zombies". I mean their lives and mind are different to ours. And newsflash, most people think of us as the "weirdo zombies" in their mind. They find our intellectual framework amusing.
So those people wearing masks with blue hair and pronouns aren't deluded as much as you'd think they are. As a side note, I do agree though that due to their "trust the experts" belief, many are refusing to comprehend reality on a more bare-bones level. So they struggle with critical thinking. In other words, they build on top of already existent frameworks that they worship (focault, "the science", frankfurt school, marxism, etc.), and they refuse to understand the axioms. Same thing with religious people, but it's more normalized. Everyone has something they project their suffering onto.
Anyway, we established that you can be alienated due to wealth, race, gender. Where do looks (aka "incels") fall into this and why is it interesting?
If you're ugly you probably know it deep inside. You are treated as disgusting by the rest. You feel like your skin is sweaty, sticky or whatever even if you shower or do your deeds. Your form is severely flawed. You feel like you don't want to sit next to a woman in a bus stop because you can feel their discomfort. That is the bogeyman we face. And it's an open wound, cause you may try to cope with it but when people press onto that wound every single time you put yourself out there it's tiresome. In my opinion sex or LTRs aren't what we need. It's feeling like we're enough, that we're someone, that we're not a subhuman not fit enough to exist and chill and meet people and live our lives happily. Maybe im projecting.
One key thing: in my opinion, you CAN get laid and still be an incel. You can have sex and be part of this same class. If you feel alienated, rejected, excluded due to your looks, but you mastered the art of frauding / psychopathically making your self appear a certain way under an enclosed / detatched scenario (aka "redpill" or PUA), you are still an incel. What do I mean? If you struggle with "lookism" but then you go to the club and wear 5 inch shoe lifts, makeup in your face, try to make yourself seem rich to compensate for your lack of looks, and fake stories or learn "game". You are still an incel. Because the next morning you wake up and you know you are without the lifts and makeup, without the phony stories. You know that the normal you is rejected. You still feel the force of "go back to your house" every time you go outside without the artificial confidence boosters. You are an incel.
So what do we do?
Unlike feminists or marxists or whatever, no one wants to stay an incel. If you say you're broke it's not that bad, if you say you're black, you can't change it, same with gender. But being an "incel" it's ostracized. You can't publically identify as incel, it's social suicide. This means we have NO mainstream support. We have no lobby groups. We have nothing. Because in real life no one says they're incels. But in my high school, to my surprise, I found out that three kids browsed incel forums. Maybe they're not in too deep like me or others, but they at least are aware of what it is, and are kinda flirting with the ideas. They'd watch Wheat Waffles sometimes and shit like that. The "tiktok" looksmaxxers i suppose. It's full of them. Yet no one would say it out loud, and rightfully so.
But the problem with that is that if you're stuck an incel you have no structure. No one helps you. You go to the media and they treat you like scum like you're a violent person who wants to kill women, such as with the ridiculous series Adolescence. Every time someone says "Lets tackle the men loneliness epidemic" it's usually a "screens=bad" argument or just vilifying us in an outright evil way. We're just normal people with our problems, and of course an edgy space like this will attract more fringe people. This, 4chan and other spaces are like dumpster of the internet. You'll find evil people, yes. No one denies that. But no one ever actually wants to help them, connect them, hold their hands. Give some direction. There's no structure, no course of action.
So my question to you, because I haven't figured it out, is what do we do? I'm not saying we should organize but we need a blackpilled intellectual (inb4 "schopenhauer!"). The closest thing was Jordan Peterson but we all know how it played out. I mean we need someone to just intellectualize our beliefs and give us a voice. Because, again, the story is written by those who win. And right now if someone finds out I've browsed these spaces I get no job, I'm treated as a political extremist, I get put on a watchlist. So if you're black and you feel alienated due to your race you are a victim, you are a woman and you feel alieanted due to your gender you are a victim, but you're an ugly guy and you feel alienated due to your looks and you're suddenly a problem? My point is, all concerns are valid, what we ultimately ought to do is try to unite humanity.
Back to the incel question, what do we do? Obviously the ideal course of action is trascend this and become as good looking as one can be, but if we can't? Honestly I have gymcelled, fraudmaxxed and everything ever since I was 15 till now, 19, and my results were shit. It's also hard to stay consistent when the feedback you get sucks. When you leave your house and everyone loves you or at least you don't feel discriminated due to the way you look, it's easier to stay motivated.
I mean I can get laid, but it's all while im not myself so it really isn't that good. I really go out with shoe lifts every single fucking day and my feet hurt. It's brutal. Like I said to myself the other day, fuck it, lets go back to square one and threw my lifts away. The mental toll is brutal. Hardmaxxing I haven't done yet, but I'm likely getting a rhino on february. However, beauty is more than just that, it's health. Ugly people tend to be ugly inside too. Their organs tend to function worse, the skin is weird and they sweat a lot from their glands, their hair is off, everything tends to be weird, ingrown hairs, acne, etc. Imbalances everywhere. It's deeper than that. At least for me, cause in my case it's not that I have one noticeable flaw that I go boom and fix it. It's a mixture of everything: lack of bone, being "mystery meat" (im a mixture of plenty of races, so I don't even have a community to fall back on, etc.). I support bimax or hardmaxxing and all of that, honestly its not my field and I understand this forum is more "nigga i dont care about this, just tell me what surgery to do to look better", and I respect that. I just feel like there's an underlying philosophical topic worth understanding and the record must be set straight.
Incel class consciousness
As I said, incels don't want to openly identify themselves as incels. Marx talked about "class consciousness", how people should KNOW their place. Not in the "you are a slave, do what I say boy", but rather in the "dude just acknowledge you are a broke ass, and others are like you, so organize and try to do the best for your group so you can be happier and not fucking starve to death". So I think all of us should be aware of our condition so we can be an actual support group and not a toxic cesspool. Honestly, in a sad way, I think you're "my people". I mean I feel like I have more in common with 4chan, the manosphere and these forums, than with people in my country. My culture is similar to yours. You're my closest match in terms of a demographic. And when something bad happens to you, I feel like it's happening to someone from my tribe. I obviously would rather stay the fuck away from you and do my life, but I keep going back because some part of me knows that there's some things that I can only discuss in spaces like this.
Final thoughts
Here's the deal though. How can I comprehend how black people feel, if im not black myself? I mean I used to be the typical neo-con that talks about FBI crime statistics and shit like that, but one day their struggled clicked with me and you can't really reason. How did it work? ART. Art bypasses that. Art is the way of translating ideas that one cannot perhaps feel in their skin because they couldn't feel it, because you can't rationalize your way into a feeling. Art is the medium in which you transmit ideas through a constrained medium to other people.
I think we need to create more bridges to get people to actually get what happens to us, and we need to be more open minded to understand other people's concerns. We need more incel artists I think.
On frameworks, bogeymen and why people think certain ways ("pills")
Let's start with a basic question, what is an incel? There are two definitions being used, one is literally not being able to get laid, and the other is that + blaming women for it. Often entitled to it.
I disagree. I think the term evolved past that. For the sake of this thread I'll use incel as just being alienated from society due to looks – even if you have sex.
One can be alienated from society, in my opinion, due to various reasons. For example, the most known one, wealth, and you have insecurities with that. For instance, getting paid like shit in a mcdonalds and staying wageslaving but then you go out with your friends, you get one night stands, etc. You don't have an insecurity with the way you look. You don't feel like an abomination. That's not a variable in your mind. So you probably won't empathize with someone who struggles with that because you equate struggling with lacking money. So you think that's the problem, the pain in life. These people may more frequently become communists, because those ideas appeal to them. They get it. They know what it's like. You can reason all you'd like but the ideas click once you feel them. I'll get into this later on
Another example. You can have someone who is black and is alienated due to their race. So when they go outside the hood they feel the racism, how people passively avoid them, how many people deep inside have some form of mild disgust or uncomfortableness – and they pick up on that. How cops are more suspicious, etc. So their bogeyman is not "capitalism" like the wagie one but instead "racism". The economic and race problem does often overlap, but for the sake of the matter lets say its a well-off black person. They always feel that insecurity in how people treat them due to their race status when they go to the suburbs. That's their problem, and thus frameworks like "critical race theory" and such appeal to them. Especially black women. I mean black men tend to be more right-wing or care less about that shit because they are more often included, it's cool to be a black guy, it's badass these days. Being a black woman, unfortunately though, is the equivalent of indian men. They know they're usually ugly.
But let's talk about women. You may trivialize them all you'd like, but they have their problems. They get tons of attention every day 24/7 so that isn't really a variable to them. Looks are definitely a variable, but not the loneliness in the same way as men perhaps. So what is it? They have other variables. Paradigmatically, they go to work and are not taken that seriously, it's true. I mean I for one usually take men more seriously, you probably too. I don't really control this, it just happens. You can call it genetics, social construction or the typical "erm well actually men had to work harder so more often than not they will be better" or whatever 2016 anti-feminist ben shapiro argument. For whatever reason, we clearly don't take them that seriously at least in the beginning. The stigma exists. So, if the first person's bogeyman is capitalism, the second person's bogeyman is racism, what is the bogeyman for the third person? Patriarchy. So, once again, ideas that tackle this concept become personal to them, they feel it, the feminist authors get them, they know what it's like.
Think about it this way. You feel pain, discomfort or whatever due to something. Someone puts a word on that thing. You get it. You know they are right because in your mind you feel that. Your world is your mind after all. Our mind is a very complex continuum that processes – via both reason and spirit – the stimuli from life, and is outputted in the senses.
That's why you get what many people, dehumanizatively call "SJW zombies". I mean their lives and mind are different to ours. And newsflash, most people think of us as the "weirdo zombies" in their mind. They find our intellectual framework amusing.
So those people wearing masks with blue hair and pronouns aren't deluded as much as you'd think they are. As a side note, I do agree though that due to their "trust the experts" belief, many are refusing to comprehend reality on a more bare-bones level. So they struggle with critical thinking. In other words, they build on top of already existent frameworks that they worship (focault, "the science", frankfurt school, marxism, etc.), and they refuse to understand the axioms. Same thing with religious people, but it's more normalized. Everyone has something they project their suffering onto.
Anyway, we established that you can be alienated due to wealth, race, gender. Where do looks (aka "incels") fall into this and why is it interesting?
If you're ugly you probably know it deep inside. You are treated as disgusting by the rest. You feel like your skin is sweaty, sticky or whatever even if you shower or do your deeds. Your form is severely flawed. You feel like you don't want to sit next to a woman in a bus stop because you can feel their discomfort. That is the bogeyman we face. And it's an open wound, cause you may try to cope with it but when people press onto that wound every single time you put yourself out there it's tiresome. In my opinion sex or LTRs aren't what we need. It's feeling like we're enough, that we're someone, that we're not a subhuman not fit enough to exist and chill and meet people and live our lives happily. Maybe im projecting.
One key thing: in my opinion, you CAN get laid and still be an incel. You can have sex and be part of this same class. If you feel alienated, rejected, excluded due to your looks, but you mastered the art of frauding / psychopathically making your self appear a certain way under an enclosed / detatched scenario (aka "redpill" or PUA), you are still an incel. What do I mean? If you struggle with "lookism" but then you go to the club and wear 5 inch shoe lifts, makeup in your face, try to make yourself seem rich to compensate for your lack of looks, and fake stories or learn "game". You are still an incel. Because the next morning you wake up and you know you are without the lifts and makeup, without the phony stories. You know that the normal you is rejected. You still feel the force of "go back to your house" every time you go outside without the artificial confidence boosters. You are an incel.
So what do we do?
Unlike feminists or marxists or whatever, no one wants to stay an incel. If you say you're broke it's not that bad, if you say you're black, you can't change it, same with gender. But being an "incel" it's ostracized. You can't publically identify as incel, it's social suicide. This means we have NO mainstream support. We have no lobby groups. We have nothing. Because in real life no one says they're incels. But in my high school, to my surprise, I found out that three kids browsed incel forums. Maybe they're not in too deep like me or others, but they at least are aware of what it is, and are kinda flirting with the ideas. They'd watch Wheat Waffles sometimes and shit like that. The "tiktok" looksmaxxers i suppose. It's full of them. Yet no one would say it out loud, and rightfully so.
But the problem with that is that if you're stuck an incel you have no structure. No one helps you. You go to the media and they treat you like scum like you're a violent person who wants to kill women, such as with the ridiculous series Adolescence. Every time someone says "Lets tackle the men loneliness epidemic" it's usually a "screens=bad" argument or just vilifying us in an outright evil way. We're just normal people with our problems, and of course an edgy space like this will attract more fringe people. This, 4chan and other spaces are like dumpster of the internet. You'll find evil people, yes. No one denies that. But no one ever actually wants to help them, connect them, hold their hands. Give some direction. There's no structure, no course of action.
So my question to you, because I haven't figured it out, is what do we do? I'm not saying we should organize but we need a blackpilled intellectual (inb4 "schopenhauer!"). The closest thing was Jordan Peterson but we all know how it played out. I mean we need someone to just intellectualize our beliefs and give us a voice. Because, again, the story is written by those who win. And right now if someone finds out I've browsed these spaces I get no job, I'm treated as a political extremist, I get put on a watchlist. So if you're black and you feel alienated due to your race you are a victim, you are a woman and you feel alieanted due to your gender you are a victim, but you're an ugly guy and you feel alienated due to your looks and you're suddenly a problem? My point is, all concerns are valid, what we ultimately ought to do is try to unite humanity.
Back to the incel question, what do we do? Obviously the ideal course of action is trascend this and become as good looking as one can be, but if we can't? Honestly I have gymcelled, fraudmaxxed and everything ever since I was 15 till now, 19, and my results were shit. It's also hard to stay consistent when the feedback you get sucks. When you leave your house and everyone loves you or at least you don't feel discriminated due to the way you look, it's easier to stay motivated.
I mean I can get laid, but it's all while im not myself so it really isn't that good. I really go out with shoe lifts every single fucking day and my feet hurt. It's brutal. Like I said to myself the other day, fuck it, lets go back to square one and threw my lifts away. The mental toll is brutal. Hardmaxxing I haven't done yet, but I'm likely getting a rhino on february. However, beauty is more than just that, it's health. Ugly people tend to be ugly inside too. Their organs tend to function worse, the skin is weird and they sweat a lot from their glands, their hair is off, everything tends to be weird, ingrown hairs, acne, etc. Imbalances everywhere. It's deeper than that. At least for me, cause in my case it's not that I have one noticeable flaw that I go boom and fix it. It's a mixture of everything: lack of bone, being "mystery meat" (im a mixture of plenty of races, so I don't even have a community to fall back on, etc.). I support bimax or hardmaxxing and all of that, honestly its not my field and I understand this forum is more "nigga i dont care about this, just tell me what surgery to do to look better", and I respect that. I just feel like there's an underlying philosophical topic worth understanding and the record must be set straight.
Incel class consciousness
As I said, incels don't want to openly identify themselves as incels. Marx talked about "class consciousness", how people should KNOW their place. Not in the "you are a slave, do what I say boy", but rather in the "dude just acknowledge you are a broke ass, and others are like you, so organize and try to do the best for your group so you can be happier and not fucking starve to death". So I think all of us should be aware of our condition so we can be an actual support group and not a toxic cesspool. Honestly, in a sad way, I think you're "my people". I mean I feel like I have more in common with 4chan, the manosphere and these forums, than with people in my country. My culture is similar to yours. You're my closest match in terms of a demographic. And when something bad happens to you, I feel like it's happening to someone from my tribe. I obviously would rather stay the fuck away from you and do my life, but I keep going back because some part of me knows that there's some things that I can only discuss in spaces like this.
Final thoughts
Here's the deal though. How can I comprehend how black people feel, if im not black myself? I mean I used to be the typical neo-con that talks about FBI crime statistics and shit like that, but one day their struggled clicked with me and you can't really reason. How did it work? ART. Art bypasses that. Art is the way of translating ideas that one cannot perhaps feel in their skin because they couldn't feel it, because you can't rationalize your way into a feeling. Art is the medium in which you transmit ideas through a constrained medium to other people.
I think we need to create more bridges to get people to actually get what happens to us, and we need to be more open minded to understand other people's concerns. We need more incel artists I think.
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