Stupidiest surgery advice of the day

[lurking truecel]

This dude got recommended double jaw surgery jfl, not one serious jaw surgeon in the world would do a jaw surgery on this dude. And it would only dogmaxx him, crazy retarded advice, this take the cake, congratz @chrishell @yves

Just lol @Snicket @Lefor3Laser

Crazy improvement with bimax man

 

[Deleted member 91663]

This dude got recommended double jaw surgery jfl, not one serious jaw surgeon in the world would do a jaw surgery on this dude. And it would only dogmaxx him, crazy retarded advice, this take the cake, congratz @chrishell @yves

Just lol @Snicket @Lefor3Laser
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Crazy improvement with bimax man
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Victim of wishful thinking. You just can't talk some users out of it on here.

 

[chrishell]

Read the whole thread. I did not recommend him jaw surgery and I think he is already handsome and should not pursue surgeries. It is, however, the solution to his concern.

 

[lurking truecel]

Victim of wishful thinking. You just can't talk some users out of it on here.

Bimax is the one fits all surgery

 

[Deleted member 91663]

Read the whole thread. I did not recommend him jaw surgery and I think he is already handsome and should not pursue surgeries. It is, however, the solution to his concern.

You know how it is on here. I've seen it dozens of times.
They want a particular surgery and try to backward rationalize it in a million different ways.

 

[lurking truecel]

Read the whole thread. I did not recommend him jaw surgery and I think he is already handsome and should not pursue surgeries. It is, however, the solution to his concern.

To what concern, a djs wouldnt do him any good. Either not making a diff or dog maxxing him because he simply isnt recessed for jaw surgery to do anything

 

[CEO]

He's a good dude with solid potential, he DM'ed me the other day. Wish him the best

 

[Deleted member 122022]

This dude got recommended double jaw surgery jfl, not one serious jaw surgeon in the world would do a jaw surgery on this dude. And it would only dogmaxx him, crazy retarded advice, this take the cake, congratz @chrishell @yves

Just lol @Snicket @Lefor3Laser
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Crazy improvement with bimax man
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People out here recommending others to get a lefort 3 , I say that guy is brighter than the niggers who are genuinely considering such atrocities LOL

 

[chrishell]

To what concern, a djs wouldnt do him any good. Either not making a diff or dog maxxing him because he simply isnt recessed for jaw surgery to do anything

His concern is that he was too baby faced and wanted a more masculine look. He is somewhat recessed and I could tell from the images. He is somewhat recessed in spite of his still looking cute. "Already looking cute" and "could benefit from jaw surgery" are not mutually exclusive categories. Personally, if I were him, I would not pursue it, and if you were not cherry-picking replies you would see what I meant. Learn to read between the lines before attempting a sloppy vindictive dunk on me.

P.S. You avoid "dogmaxxing" by simply getting movements that do not dogmax you.

 

[chrishell]

You know how it is on here. I've seen it dozens of times.
They want a particular surgery and try to backward rationalize it in a million different ways.

It's not the case here, the guy he's talking about wasn't asking about DJS in particular and trying to justify it. But that does happen often.

 

[lurking truecel]

His concern is that he was too baby faced and wanted a more masculine look. He is somewhat recessed and I could tell from the images. He is somewhat recessed in spite of his still looking cute. "Already looking cute" and "could benefit from jaw surgery" are not mutually exclusive categories. Personally, if I were him, I would not pursue it, and if you were not cherry-picking replies you would see what I meant. Learn to read between the lines before attempting a sloppy vindictive dunk on me.

P.S. You avoid "dogmaxxing" by simply getting movements that do not dogmax you.

His nose couldnt take a djs, maybe 2 mm leforte which just wouldnt do anything. And his phil is long making it even more stupid

So it was the worst advice of the day because it wouldnt help him at all. Not in the slightest, and its a high risk and high cost surgery making it even more dumb. Very very bad advice @Snicket

 

[Deleted member 91663]

His nose couldnt take a djs, maybe 2 mm leforte which just wouldnt do anything. And his phil is long making it even more stupid

So it was the worst advice of the day because it wouldnt help him at all. Not in the slightest, and its a high risk and high cost surgery making it even more dumb. Very very bad advice @Snicket

I agree with you.

 

[chrishell]

His nose couldnt take a djs, maybe 2 mm leforte which just wouldnt do anything.

So it was the worst advice of the day because it wouldnt help him at all. Not in the slightest, and its a high risk and high cost surgery making it even more dumb. Very very bad advice @Snicket

You literally simulated a LF2 and cheek implants in your morph, procedures I never even mentioned, by moving the entire nose and zygomas forward. DJS (which, by convention, means LF1 and BSSO unless otherwise stated) does not move those regions forward. This is jaw surgery 101. Failed thread!

 

[Lefor3Laser]

This dude got recommended double jaw surgery jfl, not one serious jaw surgeon in the world would do a jaw surgery on this dude. And it would only dogmaxx him, crazy retarded advice, this take the cake, congratz @chrishell @yves

Just lol @Snicket @Lefor3Laser
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Crazy improvement with bimax man
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Why do users here keep recommending the same surgery all over again, do they forget that it's for normalization and not getting better?, i mean the ROI if he had to do bimax would be bad and it would end up worse for him.

Plus that he's already gl, this is what i call mental illness rather than actually having looks problems.

But chrishell has sometimes good takes.

 

[lurking truecel]

You literally simulated a LF2 and cheek implants in your morph, procedures I never even mentioned, by moving the entire nose and zygomas forward. DJS (which, by convention, means LF1 and BSSO unless otherwise stated) does not move those regions forward. This is jaw surgery 101. Failed thread!


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[iblamemandible7]

His nose couldnt take a djs, maybe 2 mm leforte which just wouldnt do anything. And his phil is long making it even more stupid

So it was the worst advice of the day because it wouldnt help him at all. Not in the slightest, and its a high risk and high cost surgery making it even more dumb. Very very bad advice @Snicket

I thought lefort 1 with proper rotation doesnt affect the philtrum, just the teeth show

 

[Lefor3Laser]

His concern is that he was too baby faced and wanted a more masculine look. He is somewhat recessed and I could tell from the images. He is somewhat recessed in spite of his still looking cute. "Already looking cute" and "could benefit from jaw surgery" are not mutually exclusive categories. Personally, if I were him, I would not pursue it, and if you were not cherry-picking replies you would see what I meant. Learn to read between the lines before attempting a sloppy vindictive dunk on me.

P.S. You avoid "dogmaxxing" by simply getting movements that do not dogmax you.

Yes but there's a point where bimax isn't worth it (ROI wise), he would benefit from other surgeries more than bimax.

I mean, who benefits more, someone with a recession of 10-15 mm's or someone with a recession of 3 mm's?, that's my point.

 

[Seong Gi-Hun]

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This is actually an ascension believe it or not

 

[lurking truecel]

This is actually an ascension believe it or not

he only needs one genio for 5k not jaw surgery for 20k + and orthodontics on top for atleast 4k+. And 1 year downtime.

 

[Seong Gi-Hun]

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he only needs one genio for 5k not jaw surgery for 20k + and orthodontics on top for atleast 4k+. And 1 year downtime.

Its never enough, trimax or death

 

[chrishell]

Yes but there's a point where bimax isn't worth it (ROI wise), he would benefit from other surgeries more than bimax.

I mean, who benefits more, someone with a recession of 10-15 mm's or someone with a recession of 3 mm's?, that's my point.

Do you think I disagree with this? Y/N

 

[jaymog]

If you do bimax for a few MMs of forward growth you’re a fucking retarded donkey. dorks on here throwing around bimax for a few MMs that have never done bimax

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Do you think I disagree with this? Y/N

No, since i've read this thread.

 

[flatcheck213]

This dude got recommended double jaw surgery jfl, not one serious jaw surgeon in the world would do a jaw surgery on this dude. And it would only dogmaxx him, crazy retarded advice, this take the cake, congratz @chrishell @yves

Just lol @Snicket @Lefor3Laser
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Crazy improvement with bimax man
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Wowwww
mirin my iqmatch
Lets dogmaxx together guys

 

[Deleted member 91663]

No, since i've read this thread.

His jaws don't look retruded to me at all.
Any more advancement would likely result in bimaxillary protrusion.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

You avoid "dogmaxxing" by simply getting movements that do not dogmax you.

This is correct. That's why surgeons make the distinction between your bite and skeletal base.
You can have a class 1 bite but a skeletal base 3.
Conversely, you can have a class 1 bite and still have retruded jaws.

 

[chrishell]

His jaws don't look retruded to me at all.
Any more advancement would likely result in bimaxillary protrusion.

Advancing the jaws in and of itself does not cause or cure bimaxillary protrusion. Do you know what bimaxillary protrusion is?

This is correct. That's why surgeons make the distinction between your bite and skeletal base.
You can have a class 1 bite but a skeletal base 3.
Conversely, you can have a class 1 bite and still have retruded jaws.

Of course it is, and you don't even need to bring up the distinction between dental and skeletal bite to make the point. It follows trivially from the facts that not everyone gets the same movements in jaw surgery and that for any given patient, some movements will dogmaxx them and some movements will not. Jaw surgery "in general" does not dogmaxx you in the same way that any and all rain does not always cause flooding.

In any case, do you (or anyone) see how this is all besides the point of the thread, which is an exercise in bad faith, quasi-deliberate misinterpretation, and pretentiousness? Are people seriously not bothered by a prominent voice in this subforum being unable to make the distinction between LF1 and LF2, yet using an authoritative and accusatory tone nonetheless? Are they not worried about the precedent this might set for people who read this forum?

For what it's worth, the recommendation to do a genioplasty alone was a good one.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

Advancing the jaws in and of itself does not cause or cure bimaxillary protrusion.

Never said that. I said in this case it would imo.

If you advance the jaws beyond the skull base, it’s a material risk, yes.

Do you know what bimaxillary protrusion is?

Where you have protrusion of the maxilla and mandible.

Jaw surgery "in general" does not dogmaxx you in the same way that any and all rain does not always cause flooding.

I believe that for people with clinically non retruded jaws, it does.

In any case, do you (or anyone) see how this is all besides the point of the thread, which is an exercise in bad faith, quasi-deliberate misinterpretation, and pretentiousness? Are people seriously not bothered by a prominent voice in this subforum being unable to make the distinction between LF1 and LF2, yet using an authoritative and accusatory tone nonetheless?

You didn’t recommend he should have surgery in fairness to you.

For what it's worth, the recommendation to do a genioplasty alone was a good one.

I agree.

 

[chrishell]

Never said that. I said in this case it would imo.

If you advance the jaws beyond the skull base, it’s a material risk, yes.

Where you have protrusion of the maxilla and mandible.

You are confusing bimaxillary protrusion and overadvanced jaws. Bimaxillary protrusion is when the teeth push out too posteriorly for where the jaws are located. Overadvancement is when the jaws altogether are too forward for the skull, regardless of the orientation of the teeth. If you have bimaxillary protrusion and get a standard LeFort and/or BSSO advancement without solving that protrusion intraoperatively or with orthodontics, you risk making that protrusion more obvious. In any case, he does not appear to have bimaxillary protrusion. If he got jaw surgery, he has risk of being overadvanced, sure, if the surgeon does not do the proper movements, but zero risk of getting bimaxillary protrusion unless the surgeon and/or orthodontist massively screw up.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

You are confusing bimaxillary protrusion and overadvanced jaws. Bimaxillary protrusion is when the teeth push out too posteriorly for where the jaws are located.

It can mean both. To be clarify, I meant there was a danger of over advancement of the jaws.

Here is a systematic review on the topic:

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=106033

“bimaxillary protrusion will be defined as a form of malocclusion characterized by protrusion of both upper and lower jaws, and proclination of the incisors, usually without disharmony between the arches.”

is when the jaws altogether are too forward for the skull, regardless of the orientation of the teeth. If you have bimaxillary protrusion and get a standard LeFort and/or BSSO advancement without solving that protrusion intraoperatively or with orthodontics, you risk making that protrusion more obvious. In any case, he does not appear to have bimaxillary protrusion. If he got jaw surgery, he has risk of being overadvanced, sure, if the surgeon does not do the proper movements, but zero risk of getting bimaxillary protrusion unless the surgeon and/or orthodontist massively screw up.

I just said that his jaws did not look retruded and the danger of over advancement is real in these cases.

I don’t see how jaw surgery is beneficial for someone with no clinical recession of the jaws.

@lurking truecel

 

[chrishell]

It can mean both. To be clarify, I meant there was a danger of over advancement of the jaws.

Here is a systematic review on the topic:

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=106033

“bimaxillary protrusion will be defined as a form of malocclusion characterized by protrusion of both upper and lower jaws, and proclination of the incisors, usually without disharmony between the arches.”

I just said that his jaws did not look retruded and the danger of over advancement is real in these cases.

@lurking truecel

You are being too fast and loose with essential terminology and it's throwing me off. A key component of bimaxillary protrusion is proclined incisors as even that definition states and nothing in the images he provided suggested they are proclined. You said you thought advancement could cause bimaxillary protrusion. One can have bimaxillary protrusion and the jaws altogether can still be recessed, such as you find commonly in Asians. There is just no way around this.

I don’t see how jaw surgery is beneficial for someone with no clinical recession of the jaws.

Well I wouldn't either--would anyone? Who is this directed to?

no clinical recession of the jaws.

No, he is recessed, just slightly, and still handsome in spite of it. If he wanted less a baby face, as was his aesthetic complaint, he can consult a jaw surgeon and look into DJS/LJS/genioplasty. The movements would have be small and more concentrated on the mandible. Do I think he should personally? Absolutely not. Not worth the cost. Not worth the effort. Would still improve him. But it's up to him to weigh up the risks and benefits. My personal opinion on whether it would "be worth it" is irrelevant. If anything I went too far in telling him to forget about surgery entirely because I personally thought it wouldn't be worth it. I was imposing my own values in saying that and I regret it. But it would "improve" him aesthetically.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

You are being too fast and loose with essential terminology and it's throwing me off. A key component of bimaxillary protrusion is proclined incisors as even that definition states and nothing in the images he provided suggested they are proclined.

Bimaxillary protrusion can include protrusion of the jaws. You said it was exclusive to the teeth and had nothing to do with the jaws.

You said you thought advancement could cause bimaxillary protrusion.

I should have technically said prognathic/ protruded jaws, okay?

One can have bimaxillary protrusion and the jaws altogether can still be recessed, such as you find commonly in Asians.

Okay, I never said otherwise. My point is that advancing the jaws on someone with no jaw retrusion would cause the jaws to protrude.

No, he is recessed, just slightly, and still handsome in spite of it. If he wanted less a baby face, as was his aesthetic complaint, he can consult a jaw surgeon and look into DJS/LJS/genioplasty. The movements would have be small and more concentrated on the mandible. Do I think he should personally? Absolutely not. Not worth the cost. Not worth the effort. Would still improve him. But it's up to him to weigh up the risks and benefits. My personal opinion on whether it would "be worth it" is irrelevant. But it would "improve" him aesthetically.

I do not think a respectable surgeon would agree to perform bimax on him.

In that respect, @lurking truecel is almost certainly right.

 

[billyxxx]

I mean to me it looks like a bimax with ccw rotation (in the example before and after you showed an advancement with no rotation) would improve his looks, albeit by a small amount since he is already good looking. I could be wrong on this tho

 

[chrishell]

Bimaxillary protrusion can include protrusion of the jaws. You said it was exclusive to the teeth and had nothing to do with the jaws.

"Bimaxillary protrusion" has to do with a protruded dentoalveolar structure, typically signaled by proclined incisors, which is different than protruded jaws as a whole. "Bimaxillary protrusion" only means protruded jaws as a whole in the most literal sense. But nobody who says "bimaxillary protrusion" means that. Every other paper is going to give a slightly different definition but a focus on the dentoalveolar complex is the common thread. It is a small terminological distinction but it entails a huge difference in the treatment which is why I am drilling on it.

I do not think a respectable surgeon would agree to perform bimax on him.

In that respect, @lurking truecel is almost certainly right.

Simply saying something doesn't make it true: I've seen many surgeons (including PSL "darlings" Pagnoni and Ramieri) operate on less and with good results. Even in his frauded photos, he has a recessed lower third, negative orbital vector, somewhat steep occlusal plane, and possible maxillary vertical excess depending on how his teeth look. He is still handsome as he is. This is without even seeing his profile or teeth. DJS/LJS/Genio could all be in the cards. He is still handsome as he is. But what should most certainly not be in the cards is giving airtime to someone who is preoccupied not with helping users find how to improve their appearance, but with finding bones to pick with forum users, creating threads that lambast them for providing the "stupidiest [sic] surgery advice," and, uh, "crazy retarded advice," and, in the same message, producing a morph that signals they don't even know the difference between a LF2/3 and DJS. I feel like I'm talking to a hallucinating ChatGPT. He is still handsome as he is.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

"Bimaxillary protrusion" has to do with a protruded dentoalveolar structure, typically signaled by proclined incisors, which is different than protruded jaws as a whole. "Bimaxillary protrusion" only means protruded jaws as a whole in the most literal sense. But nobody who says "bimaxillary protrusion" means that. Every other paper is going to give a slightly different definition but a focus on the dentoalveolar complex is the common thread. It is a small terminological distinction but it entails a huge difference in the treatment which is why I am drilling on it.

I’ll concede that I was wrong to use that term.
I meant protruded jaws relative to the skull base - bimaxillary prognathism.

Bimaxillary protrusion usually includes both protruded jaws AND proclination of incisors so I was wrong to use the term.

Simply saying something doesn't make it true: I've seen many surgeons (including PSL "darlings" Pagnoni and Ramieri) operate on less and with good results. Even in his frauded photos, he has a recessed lower third, negative orbital vector, somewhat steep occlusal plane, and possible maxillary vertical excess depending on how his teeth look. He is still handsome as he is. This is without even seeing his profile or teeth. DJS/LJS/Genio could all be in the cards. He is still handsome as he is. But what should most certainly not be in the cards is giving airtime to someone who is preoccupied not with helping users find how to improve their appearance, but with finding bones to pick with forum users, creating threads that lambast them for providing the "stupidiest [sic] surgery advice," and, uh, "crazy retarded advice," and, in the same message, producing a morph that signals they don't even know the difference between a LF2/3 and DJS. I feel like I'm talking to a hallucinating ChatGPT. He is still handsome as he is.

Pagnoni and Ramieri want money. I’ve seen them operate on people who were never good candidates for jaw surgery in the first place and get underwhelming results.

Like the user Misc who would have been turned away.

Regardless, You will say X, I will say Y.

I’d be willing to bet that if you asked 10 surgeons, the vast majority would not consider him a candidate.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[DonaldJTrump]

I’ll concede that I was wrong to use that term.
I meant protruded jaws relative to the skull base - bimaxillary prognathism.

Bimaxillary protrusion usually includes both protruded jaws AND proclination of incisors so I was wrong to use the term.

Pagnoni and Ramieri want money. I’ve seen them operate on people who were never good candidates for jaw surgery in the first place and get underwhelming results.

Like the user Misc who would have been turned away.

Regardless, You will say X, I will say Y.

I’d be willing to bet that if you asked 10 surgeons, the vast majority would not consider him a candidate.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

even ramieri? thats crazy cause people always praise him for being conservative, moral, etc

My advice: dont get bimax unless you have health issues