The Greatest Guide on Palatal Expansion

[extraz]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:

FME:

Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

 

[V4MPIR3]

nerd

 

[extraz]

nerd

i didn't choose to be this way

 

[V4MPIR3]

i didn't choose to be this way

"i didn't choose to be this way"

 

[extraz]

"i didn't choose to be this way" View attachment 4353990

jesus dude why does it seem like you’re fuming so hard

 

[V4MPIR3]

jesus dude why does it seem like you’re fuming so hard

Sorry
Do you want to be my friend

 

[extraz]

Sorry
Do you want to be my friend

sure dude i think we got off to a bad start

 

[extraz]

bump

 

[MindOfBeni]

What if my palate at the start is already assymetical and have a crossbite plus a 5mm overbite by that?


I have a somewhat good base just I am assymetrical and my upper maxilla and infraorbitals a bit recessed.

But still have an upturned nose

 

[alexias]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

This is pretty good stuff keep it up, quick question for myself, whenever I smile, there's a lot of space and you can tell my palate is narrow moreover my tongue has bite marks all over because of the narrow palate, what's your advice? I've tried getting MSE but the only doctor who's doing it in my entire province is charging 16k which is extremely expensive.

 

[stufftodo]

recent studies facemasks were shown to have insufficient force in children, but trials have shown positive results, are facemasks really worth it?

 

[Skelas]

do facemasks even make sense if youre over 10yrs old?

 

[JackThePslDemon]

This is pretty good stuff keep it up, quick question for myself, whenever I smile, there's a lot of space and you can tell my palate is narrow moreover my tongue has bite marks all over because of the narrow palate, what's your advice? I've tried getting MSE but the only doctor who's doing it in my entire province is charging 16k which is extremely expensive.

16k wtf bro someone gotta take his medical license

 

[samgrattlescouilles]

Good thread did not read everything but seems high effort and high iq

 

[onlyseec]

can i still get all the same benefits if i get an expander at 16 ?

 

[extraz]

What if my palate at the start is already assymetical and have a crossbite plus a 5mm overbite by that?


I have a somewhat good base just I am assymetrical and my upper maxilla and infraorbitals a bit recessed.

But still have an upturned nose

By expanding your palate you should get rid of the crossbite. For the asymmetry, you can go about it many different ways. If it's purely dental, where one side of your palate has teeth that are flared, you can flare the other side using an expander or aligners to match that. If you care about having teeth that aren't extruded, you can intrude the teeth on the flared side using aligners. If the asymmetry is skeletal, (one side of the face is wider or narrower) you should probably get a bone borne expander and try to see if you can add more TADS (mini screws placed in the bone) to expander the weaker/narrower side. For your infras the expander should help a bit as well. Hope this helped, if you have any more questions just private message me

 

[extraz]

This is pretty good stuff keep it up, quick question for myself, whenever I smile, there's a lot of space and you can tell my palate is narrow moreover my tongue has bite marks all over because of the narrow palate, what's your advice? I've tried getting MSE but the only doctor who's doing it in my entire province is charging 16k which is extremely expensive.

Honestly if that's the only option near you, just do it. Your palate is the foundation to your entire face, if it's to narrow not only are you going to suffer from decreased facial aesthetics (i could name 10 flaws a narrow maxilla causes but I'm not doing all of that) it's also a huge tank in your breathing, sleep, and quality of life. It's the center of your airways, and for you to live the most optimal life you need to have everything in check. 16k is expensive, but think about the positives and what it's going to do for you. People have cured their sleep apnea, brain fog, and a lot of other symptoms just with expansion.

 

[extraz]

recent studies facemasks were shown to have insufficient force in children, but trials have shown positive results, are facemasks really worth it?

Those studies must have been without bone anchorage so the elastics were just pulling on teeth. Obviously those would have more of a dental effect than skeletal. It's not going to be the same as a bone anchored expander + facemask pulling on the actual maxilla. I definitely agree that just facemask alone connected to teeth (braces) is going to have a minimized skeletal change. There's a huge difference in tooth anchored and bone anchored. Link me the studies though I'd be open to looking into it more

 

[extraz]

can i still get all the same benefits if i get an expander at 16 ?

Age doesn't matter at all for expansion. Your bones are obviously less malleable than when you were younger but expanders let you decide how much millimeters of expansion you want. It's not like your maxilla says "sutures are to old, let me just stop the expander from moving". You can turn the expander how ever much you want on any age and your bones will move. If you're an adult a surgeon can just make cuts along the midpalatal suture and you're good to go. Your 16, so you have nothing to worry about.

 

[truegook42]

Good shit

 

[DTMHando]

Great Thread Op! You seem really well informed on this topic I was shocked when I saw you were a grey like me. Im actually in a situation involving a Bone-Borne Expander. Is it okay If i pm you more on my situation and hear some advice on it?

Consultation with Orthodontist success with new Ascension plan with BAME (Bone-Anchored-Maxillary-Expansion) + others HighIqCells GTFIH.

Overview 15m 35mm Palette Width Recessed Maxilla

looksmax.org

 

[Ugniusthegoat]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

W thread, bookmarked

 

[extraz]

Great Thread Op! You seem really well informed on this topic I was shocked when I saw you were a grey like me. Im actually in a situation involving a Bone-Borne Expander. Is it okay If i pm you more on my situation and hear some advice on it?

Consultation with Orthodontist success with new Ascension plan with BAME (Bone-Anchored-Maxillary-Expansion) + others HighIqCells GTFIH.

Overview 15m 35mm Palette Width Recessed Maxilla

looksmax.org

of course go ahead

 

[LeoVonAdel]

how do i dm you on here

 

[Mythical Chadpreet]

mirin effort DNR but bookmarked for later

 

[recessedchincell]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

thank you

 

[Copecel2954]

jesus dude why does it seem like you’re fuming so hard

Truecel rage

 

[dogpound]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

Dnr I’m not a narrow palate nerd

 

[Deleted member 157938]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

Can you look at my newest post and tell me if it would be beneficial for me to get orthodontic work and if so what exactly? Please Im in dire need of help

 

[tomahawk]

Based grey W
Those are rare

 

[Informationcapitali]

I literally see no forward growth demondtrstion on maxilla due to the fme from the short u presented. I also see the head tilted upwsrds in the after as the only difference thst i could possibly see between the 2 slides

 

[theübermenschboy]

i didn't choose to be this way

Rofl
Thread mogs also

 

[extraz]

I literally see no forward growth demondtrstion on maxilla due to the fme from the short u presented. I also see the head tilted upwsrds in the after as the only difference thst i could possibly see between the 2 slides

The clip didn’t show the actual skeletal difference. Forgot to include that. Check this out and let me know if you still think the same:

 

[Whirr22222]

Dnr its underwhelming results for the absurd price tag and the jaw expander community are all jesters

 

[gooozooowggyoflove]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

What do I donif my midface is a bit long and still ahve a kinda ideal pattern is widening still fine

 

[HolyMalteser]

I'm getting marpe (going to ask for slower turns and a facepuller) since fme isnt available in my country
Anything else I should ask to get the best?
My palet is 34mm and im recessed but the ortho said I'd be doing it for aesthetic reasons only which is weird.
But I'm hoping with bands he can fix my asymmetrical palet
He is a airway ortho who actually worked with Mike mew once

 

[Trojanhorse1]

Age doesn't matter at all for expansion. Your bones are obviously less malleable than when you were younger but expanders let you decide how much millimeters of expansion you want. It's not like your maxilla says "sutures are to old, let me just stop the expander from moving". You can turn the expander how ever much you want on any age and your bones will move. If you're an adult a surgeon can just make cuts along the midpalatal suture and you're good to go. Your 16, so you have nothing to worry about.

Age is 100% relevant in in expansion. The expansion you are getting when youre older are not forming any new bone. As in younger patients thats the case

 

[therockissigma]

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

I had a question, I’m currently doing palate expansion and doing it 2x, for 2 weeks I saw a gap in my teeth. 2 weeks later that gap has significantly decreased. Not sure why? Also since my sutures are in reconstruction. Is there any supplements I can take or foods I can eat to build more strength and make my palate wider leading for maxilla growth. Like for example vitamin k2 and calcium

Everything I've learned about Maxillary Expansion.​

(get your popcorn, because I've learned a lot)

1. What Palate Expansion Is​

Palate expansion is an orthodontic technique that widens the upper jaw by applying lateral forces to the maxilla.
It can be done with:

A. Tooth-Anchored Expanders​

• Example: RPE (rapid palatal expander)
• Anchors into teeth, not bone
• Tends to cause more dental tipping and alveolar flaring rather than true skeletal widening, since its anchored to the teeth of course. (Think about it, if the expander is using the teeth as support to hold itself up, it's obviously going to push the teeth and flare them quite a bit)

B. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

• Examples: MARPE, MSE, FME
• Uses mini-implants screwed directly into the palate (TADS)
• Forces go into bone, not teeth
• Produces greater skeletal expansion and less tooth movement
• Used in older teens and adults because sutures are more closed

FME is the newest, and most revolutionary. It's also my favorite, and I'll go into that later.

2. Symptoms That Palate Expansion Can Help Improve​

Widening the maxilla can influence several functions:

Airway & Breathing​

• Can increase nasal cavity volume
• Improve nasal breathing efficiency
• Can reduce nasal congestion (if you ever sound like there's mucus in your throat/nose when talking and you're not even sick, chances are your palatal width is subpar)
• Better airflow → improved oxygen saturation during sleep

Sleep Quality​

• May reduce snoring
• Can decrease mouth-breathing during sleep

Dental & Bite Issues​

• Corrects crossbites
• Creates space for crowded teeth

Tongue Posture & Mewing​

• Wider palate → more tongue space obviously

3. Facial Changes From Palate Expansion​

Expansion affects the maxilla, which plays a major role in midface support and shape. The exact changes vary by device:

A. Effects on the Midface (General)​

Can Change:​

• Midface width
• Cheek support
• Eye area harmony
• Nasal base width

Least Changes to:​

• Maxilla forward projection (unless combined with protraction facemask)
• Orbital shape

View attachment 4353935
Pay attention to the infraorbital and the zygos. Huge difference.

1. MARPE / MSE​

These bone-anchored expanders can sometimes cause:

• Midface Drop-Down / Vertical Lengthening​

• Because the plates are anchored lower, forces spread the palate downward and forward
• Slightly longer midface look in some cases

• More Lateral Skeletal Widening​

• Greater skeletal split of the midpalatal suture
• More change at the nasal cavity and zygomatic buttress

• Bizygomatic Width​

• If your bizygomatic is a flaw, expansion can help a lot.

• Eye Separation Appearance​

• Using scans of the skull, we can actually see that the orbitals spread out a bit. My ortho told me this could lead to more under eye support, and wider set eyes. Not 100% confirming this until I expand myself.

Side Note:
MSE and MARPE are bone anchored with TADS screwed into the palate, but still anchor onto the teeth for more support. This can cause flaring of the teeth.

2. FME (Facegenics Midfacial Expander)​

Anchored differently, so there's different biomechanics.

• Less Downward Movement​

• Forces are delivered higher and more symmetrically, since it doesn't anchor onto teeth for extra support like MSE and MARPE.
• Tends to preserve midface height, due to its increased dimensional stability compared to other expanders. (will show this in the FME vs MSE/MARPE section below)
• Less risk of “midface drop” that some report with MSE/MARPE

• More Forward/Upward Changes With FME​

FME combos extremely well with protraction facemask therapy. The expander alone can provide forward growth, which most of you wont believe so check this out from one of the providers: (this is on an adult by the way.)
View attachment 4353823

• Similar Skeletal Expansion but Better​

• Less dental tipping
• Less alar flaring
• Changes focus more on bone, not teeth

FME VS MARPE/MSE
I told you all earlier that FME was better. Check out this comparison on dimensional stability of the custom MARPE and FME.
MARPE:
View attachment 4353837
FME:
View attachment 4353835
Dimensional Stability matters immensely. The more stable, the better. This is why FME has no vertical drop, and MARPE does.
FME also doesn't use teeth as support, so there's less teeth flare, and it's purely bone difference. If you want the most facial changes, FME is the way.

4. Maxillary Protraction + CCW Rotation (Huge for Facial Changes)​

A. Facemask (best used with an expander to loosen the sutures and allow the bone to move forward with how malleable the maxilla is)​

Using upward and forward vector with the facemask causes:

• Counterclockwise (CCW) rotation
• Improved midface support
• Reduced under-eye hollowing

Why FME + Facemask Is Better​

FME:

• Anchors high
• Maintains midface height
• Pulls maxilla forward AND up
• Avoids vertical drop

MARPE/MSE + facemask can still work, but

• There is slightly more vertical tendency
• May require vector correction with elastics/headgear

5. Tooth-Anchored vs. Bone-Anchored Expanders​

Tooth-Anchored Expander Problems​

• Dental tipping (teeth lean outward instead of bone widening)
• Alveolar bending
• Gum recession risk
• Limited skeletal change
• Less stable in older teens/adults

Bone-Anchored Advantages​

• True skeletal expansion
• Less dental strain
• More predictable suture split
• Works in older adolescents/adults
• Better for combining with facemask protraction
• Cleaner aesthetics (less unintended vertical/dental movement)

6. Summary​

Palate expansion:

• Widens the upper jaw
• Fixes bite/crowding
• Improves airway and tongue posture
• Can improve sleep quality
• Affects facial aesthetics well if you have the right flaws. Don't expand if you're midface is already wide, if your eyes are already wide set, etc. If your bizygomatic to bigonial is unideal for this as well, don't do it.

Bone-anchored devices (FME > MARPE/MSE > tooth-anchored):

• Give cleaner skeletal changes
• Less dental tipping
• Better for facial aesthetics
• Work better with facemask protraction

FME + Facemask (Upward Vector):

• Best combination for forward/upward maxillary movement
• Helps maintain or reduce midface vertical height

Asymmetry Fear in Expansion:

• FME has almost perfect symmetric expansion. It's relatively new, but you can check out some of the case studies on reddit. Compared to the asymmetry horror stories on MARPE, FME takes the win.
• If you have an ortho that's smart and tracks your expansion, they'll know how to minimize asymmetry.

With the differences in facial effects of the FME and MARPE, I suggest this plan:
Long and recessed midface, with poor width: FME + Facemask
Short midface with poor width: MARPE
Midface with adequate width, but lack of projection: Minimal expansion while prioritizing protraction with the facemask (still need to expand a bit to loosen the maxillary sutures and make it malleable, which will help guide the midface forward)
Common Misconception I want to clear up:
This obviously wont come close to any surgery, but expansion and orthodontics is needed to create the canvas for your health, and face. Fix your teeth, your jaw issues, and then you'll be free to do whatever it takes to build your bones. You don't want to build bones on a face with a malocclusion, or severe asymmetry, because then it'll be a bigger issue. Fix your structural issues with orthodontics, then you can paint your perfect canvas.
First post on here, so go easy on me. I made the post Christmas themed for you guys if you couldn't tell (I don't care if its a month away)

hi there so I saw ur post, I’m currently doing palate expansion , when I first got it it was 2 turns for 2 weeks, saw a gap in my teeth. Ever since then that gap has decreased, do yk why? Also while doing this palate expansion my sutures are in reconstruction so what are good things to eat or take while this process is happening to achieve best results? Like vitamin k2 and d3 or calcium, eating hard foods? I’m also 18

 

[annenisikeyim]

"i didn't choose to be this way" View attachment 4353990dropped as a kid retard