THE IMPORTANCE OF BB CREAM IN YOUR DAY TO DAY LIFE

[PsychoDsk]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

 

[EvangelicalRapist]

oh wow case report study in looksmaxxing that has revealed that incels will write any kind of autistic nonsense in order to cope with their complete and utter failures at conversing with another human being on an emotinal level in their teenage years

 

[n9wiff]

oh wow case report study in looksmaxxing that has revealed that incels will write any kind of autistic nonsense in order to cope with their complete and utter failures at conversing with another human being on an emotinal level in their teenage years

Life ends at 19 btw

 

[PsychoDsk]

oh wow case report study in looksmaxxing that has revealed that incels will write any kind of autistic nonsense in order to cope with their complete and utter failures at conversing with another human being on an emotinal level in their teenage years

It's not that deep brev

 

[EvangelicalRapist]

It's not that deep brev

I hope you don't honestly think that you spend so much of your time on this website because you just "don't look good enough"

 

[albanianblackguy]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

do you think the difference between tinted moisturizer/spf and this is really big?

 

[PsychoDsk]

I hope you don't honestly think that you spend so much of your time on this website because you just "don't look good enough"

I don't really give af about the blackpill
The majority of people aren't on here just cuz they don't look good enough, most people just like the company and friendships

 

[TitusA]

oh wow case report study in looksmaxxing that has revealed that incels will write any kind of autistic nonsense in order to cope with their complete and utter failures at conversing with another human being on an emotinal level in their teenage years

fk off retard he wrote a post about bb cream tht is completely legit. Calling everything 'autistic' is the looksmax equivalent of teenagers calling everything 'cringe'. GTFO.

 

[PsychoDsk]

do you think the difference between tinted moisturizer/spf and this is really big?

Personally I have no experience with tinted moisturizer. The bb cream I use has spf in it tho.
@NorwoodAscender and @edodalic29 might be able to answer this

 

[wsada]

What are the most important softmaxxes

 

[phenylpiracetam]

I’d argue CC cream is better.

Coverage isn’t as strong but i like to add concealer on my more prominent spots/marks.

Lot more subtle and the colour is more natural as well.

Love Erborian though, been using their stuff for years now!

 

[NorwoodAscender]

Personally I have no experience with tinted moisturizer. The bb cream I use has spf in it tho.
@NorwoodAscender and @edodalic29 might be able to answer this

I use tinted sunscreen little less effective but less noticeable as well as getting UV protection

 

[PsychoDsk]

I’d argue CC cream is better.

Coverage isn’t as strong but i like to add concealer on my more prominent spots/marks.

Lot more subtle and the colour is more natural as well.

View attachment 3421005


Love Erborian though, been using their stuff for years now!

I don't have experience with cc cream, I've heard a lot of ppl praise it tho.
As long as ppl don't notice it I'll just keep using it.
Can't go back now

 

[EvangelicalRapist]

fk off retard he wrote a post about bb cream tht is completely legit. Calling everything 'autistic' is the looksmax equivalent of teenagers calling everything 'cringe'. GTFO.

no wonder your account on this website is almost 5 years old

 

[PsychoDsk]

What are the most important softmaxxes

I'd say getting lean ofc, bb cream and dyeing your eyebrows nd lashes. simplest and most effective ones

 

[PsychoDsk]

no wonder your account on this website is almost 5 years old

Purchased upgrades 1

 

[EvangelicalRapist]

Purchased upgrades 1

wasnt my money lol

 

[TitusA]

no wonder your account on this website is almost 5 years old

Now compare our post counts to time on here.
I have been on here for basically 5 years. U reached nearly half my post count in a year and a half

 

[EvangelicalRapist]

Now compare our post counts to time on here.
I have been on here for basically 5 years. U reached nearly half my post count in a year and a half

if that's supposed to be a convincing argument i digress
jesus you're insecure

 

[PsychoDsk]

if that's supposed to be a convincing argument i digress
jesus you're insecure
View attachment 3421024

you're bitching about his argument but what the fuck is that for a diss bro 'jesus you're insecure'

 

[TitusA]

if that's supposed to be a convincing argument i digress
jesus you're insecure
View attachment 3421024

Oh im insecure says the guy who hides his profile.

 

[edodalic29]

The best non homo thread on bb cream ever , i look like a 16 year old as a early-mid 20’s , its actually insane how much jb ios i get whenever i decide to wear it

 

[Charisma]

does it break you out?

tbh my skin problems started with me applying bbc to my face a year ago in the first place
granted, it was a cheap ass cream

 

[Coeus]

Can confirm as a former acnecel that bb cream is a life saver and I still use it

 

[PsychoDsk]

does it break you out?

tbh my skin problems started with me applying bbc to my face a year ago in the first place
granted, it was a cheap ass cream

Luckily it doesn’t. I’m a heavy skincel, when I put even one drop of tret, cleanser or anything like that on my skin I break out like a maniac.

My skin can’t tolerate anything besides my daily moisturizer and the bb cream. At first I was worried too about it causing more issues but I’d even say it has helped fix my acne and PIE.
I think it’s important that you choose a good brand tho

 

[Charisma]

Luckily it doesn’t. I’m a heavy skincel, when I put even one drop of tret, cleanser or anything like that on my skin I break out like a maniac.

My skin can’t tolerate anything besides my daily moisturizer and the bb cream. At first I was worried too about it causing more issues but I’d even say it has helped fix my acne and PIE.
I think it’s important that you choose a good brand tho

would you say expensive == good?
tbh I know nothing about the shit they put in these creams so I was just gonna buy a most expensive what after I seen your post, they dont have the mentioned brand where I am at so idk what I should look for in a BBC

mind taking a pic of contents on the tube so I can try to find smth similar?

 

[PsychoDsk]

would you say expensive == good?
tbh I know nothing about the shit they put in these creams so I was just gonna buy a most expensive what after I seen your post, they dont have the mentioned brand where I am at so idk what I should look for in a BBC

mind taking a pic of contents on the tube so I can try to find smth similar?

Tbh I’d say so yes, the one I use is 60$. Granted it lasts me a month or two tho.

i believe erborian is a korean brand and they’re known for their top tier products. If you can, maybe find a korean bb cream

Here’s a list of the ingredients

 

[Charisma]

Tbh I’d say so yes, the one I use is 60$. Granted it lasts me a month or two tho.

i believe erborian is a korean brand and they’re known for their top tier products. If you can, maybe find a korean bb cream

Here’s a list of the ingredients
View attachment 3421179

tysm bhai

 

[lestoa]

good threads you post rn buddy boyo

 

[(In)CelibatePsycho2]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

I don’t understand
Is this cream a skincare product, makeup product, or a mix of both

 

[chadhamed]

The best non homo thread on bb cream ever , i look like a 16 year old as a early-mid 20’s , its actually insane how much jb ios i get whenever i decide to wear it

I dont think looking 16 at 20 is great tbh

 

[PsychoDsk]

good threads you post rn buddy boyo

Ty bhai

 

[PsychoDsk]

I don’t understand
Is this cream a skincare product, makeup product, or a mix of both

On the bottle it literally says it’s a mix of both

 

[20/04/2008]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

Water information
Its obvious Irl bro
The only time I’ll use BB Cream is pre photoshoot or group photo or smth never in day to day life

 

[PsychoDsk]

Water information
Its obvious Irl bro
The only time I’ll use BB Cream is pre photoshoot or group photo or smth never in day to day life

I use it 24/7
no one notices shit

 

[20/04/2008]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

Btw i dont read your threads
How did you ascend ????

 

[Gaygymmaxx]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

I'm male I can't use makeup thanks tho

 

[yex]

high iq threads comeback?

 

[PsychoDsk]

Btw i dont read your threads
How did you ascend ????

fixing my skin and getting lean were the things that ascended me the most. Dyeing my lashes and brows also gave me an edge. That's pretty much it tbh

 

[PsychoDsk]

I'm male I can't use makeup thanks tho

It's not make up bro!!!!!!
If you gaslight people enough it's just an expensive moisturizer

 

[ey88]

My skin looks just like yours in the first pic

I think I need to get some

 

[PsychoDsk]

My skin looks just like yours in the first pic

I think I need to get some

hellyea nigga
even if I eat like shit and breakout, i don't even care since I can cover everything up with bb cream
It's a life saver.

If I were you I'd go into a store irl and do a little drop on your hand or arm to see what tone matches yours. It's important that it matches or people will call you a faggot

 

[iblamepheno1]

Life ends at 19 btw

elaborate?

 

[prince_]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

but how do you apply it to be unnoticeable and prevent it from creasing and giving that powdery look on your skin i use it every day but still don't know how to apply it properly so its not visible

 

[PsychoDsk]

but how do you apply it to be unnoticeable and prevent it from creasing and giving that powdery look on your skin i use it every day but still don't know how to apply it properly so its not visible

pick a good product ig
Mine doesn't do that, first 10 mins after applying it kinda looks shiny and powdery but it blends into my skin as the day progresses.
Granted I moisturize first tho before applying bb cream, could help too

 

[Gilly998]

I dont agree with this, I read your post and bought BB cream that same day, BB cream is EXTREMELY obvious that youre wearing it, I got one that matches my skin tone, the obvious part is the foundation / make up look it produces

 

[org3cel.RR]

I know the regular consensus on this forum about bb cream is 'nah fuck that everyone notices anyway, it doesn't matter'.

I'm here to tell you it does infact matter.

I would even go as far as to say it's the BEST softmax there is.

It took my skin to another realm. Not only did it save my skin, it also gave me plenty health indicators. I don't look as pale anymore, my eyebags are completely GONE and my skin looks youthful, almost like I'm 15 again.

It took me a long time to completely get rid of acne, but as most people I still suffered from some PIE here and there. With bb cream, that eliminates every single spot and discrepancy on your skin.

Here's the thing, bb cream can be noticeable if you don't pick one that suits your EXACT skin tone. If you eventually find the one that looks natural, stick with it and use it 24/7. It's a must-have.

it's addicting, once you see your skin on god-like levels you won't be able to leave the house without slathering grams of it on your face.
On several occasions even girls have complimented my skin, one even went as far as to say 'wow I've never seen someone with as smooth of a skin as yours'. which absolutely blew my mind, a year ago I would kill you if you said people would compliment my skin now.

And NO ONE NOTICES, I told her 'yea It's cuz I use bb cream', her answer 'oh wow yea that explains it, it's not noticeable tho it looks way too natural which one do you use?' cagefuel, girls asking me for make up advice

start experimenting with different brands ASAP, it will save you. It will delete your eyebags, make your eyes pop, improve skin tone, smoothness and even undertones imo.

This is the brand I have used for 3 months now, I can't ever go back. It's pretty natural too and not as many harmful chemicals. even if it was full of disgusting rat poop I would still use it idgaf, it's that good.
Eborian BB creme au ginseng, I use the tone clair myself.

View attachment 3420980

Here's some pics on how it looks on my skin. It completely transforms my overall look imo. It's natural and feels amazing too ong.

This is my skin naturally, no BB nothing.

View attachment 3420985

This is my skin on bb cream. literally perfect on p diddy

View attachment 3420986View attachment 3420987

I use the same cream, its amazing, feels light and not even noticeable, I combine it with CC cream when I have high pigmentation

 

[PsychoDsk]

I dont agree with this, I read your post and bought BB cream that same day, BB cream is EXTREMELY obvious that youre wearing it, I got one that matches my skin tone, the obvious part is the foundation / make up look it produces

it's because yours is shit then
find one that works

 

[Mike141]

oh wow case report study in looksmaxxing that has revealed that incels will write any kind of autistic nonsense in order to cope with their complete and utter failures at conversing with another human being on an emotinal level in their teenage years

aren’t u the nigga that printed a loox pic and glued it to your wall?

 

[idescended]

I have tried multiple bb creams and I ascended by +1 psl which is crazy, although they all eventually break me out

I have tried double cleansing, mineral ingredients, everything but my skin is so sensitive for some reason, would appreciate if anyone can help