The prominent advocate for AGGA(dental appliance for forward growth) now advocates against it (it doesn't work as intended)

[Dude420]

AGGA only accomplishes forward maxillary expansion.
Is this expansion bona fide growth or is it simply moving the front teeth through the alveolar bone? Below I will suggest that it is a little bit of both, which is why I am simply labelling whatever AGGA does as “forward expansion.”

1. AGGA does not expand the mandible.
Since AGGA made my maxilla longer but did not make my mandible longer simultaneously, it got to the point that my maxilla was so much longer than my mandible that the only way my lower front teeth could meet my upper front teeth in proper occlusion was for my mandible to dislocate forward in the TMJ.
So yes, AGGA did expand my maxilla forward. But since this is all that it did, it resulted in an asymmetry between my maxilla and my mandible.

2. AGGA does not widen the maxilla (lateral expansion).
Another glaring shortcoming of AGGA in my case was its inability to widen my maxilla. Again, this is what I mean when I say that all AGGA does is expand one bone in bone dimension – it didn’t even expand the maxilla laterally in my case.

3. AGGA has no effect on the volume of the nasal airway or mid-face

4. AGGA does not change the angle of the maxilla.
AGGA does nothing to upright the maxilla. All it does is elongate the maxilla in the improper angulation it is already positioned in.
Is the angle of the maxilla really a big deal? I’m starting to think it is the biggest deal of them all.
As I’ve meditated on this in recent months (since Dr. Zubad Newaz pointed out to me that my maxilla is slanted downwards even after AGGA) I’ve started to realize that maybe the TRUE cause of my forward-head posture is that my neck is kinking (chin coming forward) in an effort to make my downward-slanted maxilla parallel to the ground, just so that my teeth will touch.
In other words, no matter how much longer AGGA makes the maxilla, if the maxilla remains at this downward sloping angle, then optimum form and function will never be achieved.

5. AGGA can push teeth through alveolar bone
Again, we all have the impression that AGGA is this magical biocompatible device that simply stimulates the perfect sweet spot in the maxilla, mimicking the proper role of the tongue, and thus triggers some kind of biochemical bone deposition process hidden within our bodies by evolution.
Maybe, to some degree.
But AGGA also just pushes on teeth. Especially the front teeth. That’s probably why they hurt like hell after every adjustment.
And probably why when many of us have our braces removed, our front teeth feel like they just fielded a ground ball. And why we wouldn’t dare bite into an apple at that point.
And many have reported x-rays that show bone loss to the upper front teeth following AGGA.
And some have even reported mobility in the front teeth (AGGA made their front teeth loose).
Definitely be aware that this is an issue and monitor the state of your alveolar bone during treatment, especially after 4-5mm AGGA gaps.
Bone loss seems to be especially problematic for the upper front teeth.
Alveolar bone, once gone, does NOT come back.

Alternatives to AGGA
Call me jaded, but after 3 failed rounds of orthodontics I am now starting to grow weary of orthodontic expanders and growth appliances.
I’m starting to think that surgery may have been my best option all along, since it is the only option which addresses every dimension of facial underdevelopment.
Surgery can bring the maxilla and mandible forward together, unlike AGGA which expands the maxilla but not the mandible.

Here is the link, I cut some parts from the full article to provide a shorter version:

AGGA is NOT the Holy Grail of Adult Orthodontics — RONALD EAD

In this article I will explain why I no longer believe that AGGA is the “Holy Grail” of adult orthodontics. In prior articles I have praised AGGA heavily. The present article provides my current, more nuanced view of AGGA. AGGA only accomplishes forward maxillary expansion. AGGA definitely

ronaldead.com

Many myths have been busted in that article. It also sheds a lot of doubts on mewing potential (only hypothetical potential because we already struggle to find results post-childhood for mewing)

 

[The Dude Abides]

Whats your opinion on myobrace. I'd assume once an adult it cant help but would it hurt?.

 

[Lorsss]

AGGA only accomplishes forward maxillary expansion. AGGA definitely does expand the maxilla forward in relation to the rest of the face.

1. AGGA does not expand the mandible.
Since AGGA made my maxilla longer but did not make my mandible longer simultaneously, it got to the point that my maxilla was so much longer than my mandible that the only way my lower front teeth could meet my upper front teeth in proper occlusion was for my mandible to dislocate forward in the TMJ.
So yes, AGGA did expand my maxilla forward. But since this is all that it did, it resulted in an asymmetry between my maxilla and my mandible.

2. AGGA does not widen the maxilla (lateral expansion).
Another glaring shortcoming of AGGA in my case was its inability to widen my maxilla. Again, this is what I mean when I say that all AGGA does is expand one bone in bone dimension – it didn’t even expand the maxilla laterally in my case.

3. AGGA has no effect on the volume of the nasal airway or mid-face

4. AGGA does not change the angle of the maxilla.
AGGA does nothing to upright the maxilla. All it does is elongate the maxilla in the improper angulation it is already positioned in.
Is the angle of the maxilla really a big deal? I’m starting to think it is the biggest deal of them all.
As I’ve meditated on this in recent months (since Dr. Zubad Newaz pointed out to me that my maxilla is slanted downwards even after AGGA) I’ve started to realize that maybe the TRUE cause of my forward-head posture is that my neck is kinking (chin coming forward) in an effort to make my downward-slanted maxilla parallel to the ground, just so that my teeth will touch.
In other words, no matter how much longer AGGA makes the maxilla, if the maxilla remains at this downward sloping angle, then optimum form and function will never be achieved.

5. AGGA can push teeth through alveolar bone
Again, we all have the impression that AGGA is this magical biocompatible device that simply stimulates the perfect sweet spot in the maxilla, mimicking the proper role of the tongue, and thus triggers some kind of biochemical bone deposition process hidden within our bodies by evolution.
Maybe, to some degree.
But AGGA also just pushes on teeth. Especially the front teeth. That’s probably why they hurt like hell after every adjustment.
And probably why when many of us have our braces removed, our front teeth feel like they just fielded a ground ball. And why we wouldn’t dare bite into an apple at that point.
And many have reported x-rays that show bone loss to the upper front teeth following AGGA.
And some have even reported mobility in the front teeth (AGGA made their front teeth loose).
Definitely be aware that this is an issue and monitor the state of your alveolar bone during treatment, especially after 4-5mm AGGA gaps.
Bone loss seems to be especially problematic for the upper front teeth.
Alveolar bone, once gone, does NOT come back.

Alternatives to AGGA
Call me jaded, but after 3 failed rounds of orthodontics I am now starting to grow weary of orthodontic expanders and growth appliances.
I’m starting to think that surgery may have been my best option all along, since it is the only option which addresses every dimension of facial underdevelopment.
Surgery can bring the maxilla and mandible forward together, unlike AGGA which expands the maxilla but not the mandible.

Here is the link, I cut some parts from the full article to provide a shorter version:

AGGA is NOT the Holy Grail of Adult Orthodontics — RONALD EAD

In this article I will explain why I no longer believe that AGGA is the “Holy Grail” of adult orthodontics. In prior articles I have praised AGGA heavily. The present article provides my current, more nuanced view of AGGA. AGGA only accomplishes forward maxillary expansion. AGGA definitely

ronaldead.com

Many myths have been busted in that article. It also sheds a lot of doubts on mewing potential (only hypothetical potential because we already struggle to find results post-childhood for mewing)

we need an orthodontic appliance to grow the mandible forward like the AGGA does for the maxilla

 

[Lumbersexual]

I was never considering one of these, but really good and important info here man. Good post.

 

[BigBoy]

is there any machine that expands the maxilla front/backwards?

 

[Dude420]

Wow, he said in a new video that he lost half of his forward growth (10mm to 5mm) since he removed the appliance a few weeks ago. Seems like they weren't much maxilla growth, mostly teeth push through the alveolar bone that will want to return to their natural place once the appliance has been removed.

 

[The Dude Abides]

Wow, he said in a new video that he lost half of his forward growth (10mm to 5mm) since he removed the appliance a few weeks ago. Seems like they weren't much maxilla growth, mostly teeth push through the alveolar bone that will want to return to their natural place once the appliance has been removed.

Whats your opinion on myobrace. I'd assume once an adult it cant help but would it hurt?.

not to be pushy but I'd like you opinion on it

 

[Dude420]

not to be pushy but I'd like you opinion on it

I reckon(putting the possible effects for children aside) it probably only slightly direct teeth in a straighter position through the alveolar bone, I am under the impression that it probably doesn't do much. I'd be extremely surprised if it actually creates any type of maxillary/mandible expansion (if that is what you were wondering about), factoring that AGGA applies much more pressure and didn't seem to be successful doing so.

 

[The Dude Abides]

I reckon(putting the possible effects for children aside) it probably only slightly direct teeth in a straighter position through the alveolar bone, I'd be really surprised if it actually creates any type of maxillary/mandible expansion, factoring that AGGA applies much more pressure and didn't seem to be successful doing so.

Sounds good because im not looking for maxilla growth. After looking at my face nothing appears overly recessed but teeth position fucks up my mouth area.Molars seem to tip inwards causing incisors to sit more forward. It doesn't appear to be narrow palate because the root of the molars is wide just the angle is wrong. I was just gonna let a dentist fix it but they all wanted to ignore my molars and bring the bottom incisors more forward to meet the top. They completely ignored my concerns about the over look. All they care about is straight teeth. Also braces scare me because the roots shrink after.

 

[paulie_walnuts]

In such case fagga is awesome from their perspective; they take few courses at lvi and then sign up for support from fbi and quickly start offering $10,000+ treatments. Cash flow for both the dentist and Gellala.

Forward maxillary expansion is a hell of a lot better than nothing, but for $5000-15000 and 2 years of your time you could do a lot better, and with no risk to your alveolar bone.

what's the point. jaw surgery in western europe is like 10.000-15.000, in eastern europe 5.000-10.000

its over for mewcels btw.